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London multi breed ban

lezzpezz
November 9th, 2004, 08:44 AM
Here's the actual article in today's London Free Press. Read it and weep...I have tears in my eyes as I type this. I have 3 large dogs: Great Pyr, Husky and a chow/collie(?)X. They are exhuberant and will happily greet people by running up to them, tails wagging. Does this constitute "charging" someone? i live beside a real azzhole, who has called the cops on me for everything under the sun, and shines his spotlight on my yard when my dog barks 2 or 3 times. Will I lose my dogs because it makes him happy to hurt me anyway he can? I am totally stressed now and will be afraid to take my dogs off site. I will try to get to the meeting, but it will be difficult, as I work 1-9 that day, have to try to switch shift and then ask to leave early. This will be next to impossible.

Here's the story:

More dog controls planned

Even dogs perceived as threatening could be muzzled, a second proposed bylaw says.
MARY-JANE EGAN, Free Press City Hall Reporter 2004-11-09 02:05:39



London dogs will be presumed guilty unless proven innocent under proposed "dangerous dog" controls. Jay Stanford, city manager of environmental programs, acknowledged the proposed bylaws are controversial.

"Yes, that's the way it would work. But from a safety perspective, we believe that's the best way," Stanford said following a meeting on the issue last night before city council's environment and transportation committee.

Dogs deemed "potentially dangerous" -- even if they haven't bitten anyone -- could be ordered muzzled, neutered or impounded. Their owners could need a dangerous dog licence at a higher cost.

If the owner refuses, the dog could be ordered euthanized.

The new measures are expected to draw a crowd next week at a public meeting.

"It's a very passionate issue and we expect many people to be there," said committee chairperson Coun. Roger Caranci.

There are actually two proposed city bylaws:

- One would ban four dog breeds in London: Pit bulls, rottweilers, canarios and akitas. Dogs of those breeds already living in London would be allowed as long as their owners applied for an extension within 90 days. Otherwise the dogs would have to be moved outside the city or euthanized.

- The other bylaw would slap in place the stringent new controls. Unlike the existing bylaw that calls for muzzling only if a dog has bitten someone, the new bylaw would require muzzling if a dog charges someone or is perceived as menacing.

Those dogs could also be put down if the owner refuses to muzzle them.

But is there risk of abuse if false complaints are made about about dog behaviour?

"False reports could occur, yes," said Stanford, when asked if habitual barking could prompt a false report.

"We will need more animal patrol officers and there will be avenue for appeal," he said. "But this is about public safety."

Controller Gord Hume questioned whether London should pursue bylaws when the province is in the middle of its own crackdown on pit bulls.

The province has vowed to ban the breed of squat, muscular dogs that have been in the headlines often this year for vicious attacks on people.

But Caranci noted London's proposal goes beyond pit bulls.

"This bylaw deals with many issues -- muzzling, leashing, licensing and more stringent penalties. Our legal staff told us we can proceed as long as this bylaw doesn't conflict in any way with what the province brings down."

IF YOU GO

- What: Public meeting on London's proposed new dog controls.

- When: Nov. 16, 4 p.m.

- Where: City hall

Luvmypit
November 9th, 2004, 09:44 AM
You should attend that very meeting and tell your story about how your neighbor is a nut job and has called the police and harrasses your dogs. This is such an infringemnet on peoples rights.

Akeeter
November 9th, 2004, 10:24 AM
GoodPooch has set up a web site for reports of harrassment of dogs & owners. You may be able to submit this as evidence that it's 'happening all over'. I would document all of the problems that you have had with this neighbour to date, & try ias be as specific as you can with dates & times.
Sudmit this to the hearing, & try to find other people who have had similar problems, either with the same guy, or with others.
I don't know if getting a restraining order out against him would help your case if he reports you? (at least you have something to say that 'he started it'.) It might get him wound up & make him start something.
I would honestly report everything that has happened to the police too. Keep a copy of your submission to the Meeting & give it to them. If there are any threats made involved to you or your pets, call the police Right Away!

lezzpezz
November 9th, 2004, 10:26 AM
I am going to work shortly and will beg for the time off to attend this meeting. I will have to get my name on the speakers list, which will be long. If I cannot make the meeting, there is a woman on our dog owner's group who is on the task force for the city and I will be giving her my imput at our meeting this thursday nite.

lezzpezz
November 9th, 2004, 10:31 AM
I have already been involved with the police because of this guy, even the Community outreach services of the police and the dispute resolution centre, and the cops are well aware of this guys' behaviour. He was taken to court for pulling a rifle on someone who was on his property! I have enough documentation on this cracker to wallpaper my entire house! He is just looking for a reason to give it to anyone, and I happen to live the closest. He has come at me with a hammer and threatened little kids on the street. He has been warned about harrassment and getting a restraining order has been discussed, and the COR officer said it's really hard to persue harrassment charges. Just keep writing things down and hope that he gets himself into trouble.

I just don't like that our city is giving him the tools to assist him in his bizarre vendetta!

Dukieboy
November 9th, 2004, 10:50 AM
I have a nutty neighbour too. We live in row houses, all attached. She drove the folks on the otherside of her to move out. They had a new baby and she harrassed them so badly they sold thier house. (I don't think she likes anything that breathes)
Duke was a pup this past summer and every time and I mean every time he barked even just once she would yell out her back door "oh shut that f******* dog up". Its really hard to ignore her.
Now that its colder and we are in doors she bangs on the walls cuz she can hear him going up the stairs. She has stopped this past week, I think the new owner on the other side could probably hear her banging (its that loud) and asked her to stop or what her problem was.
I am not too worried because if it went legal or anything I could probably get an affidavit from the neighbours she drove out. But its scary when you have to live beside that kind of hatred day in and out. Takes a toll.

lezzpezz
November 9th, 2004, 12:21 PM
Yes, I feel pretty roughed up by him at times, but I have learned to laugh it off and no, I ain't gonna move :thumbs up

My supervisor has approved the time off for the Nov. 16th meeting, so now I am in need of a presentation so I can be on the speakers list. I'm gonna comb through alot of the pertinent stuff that has been posted on this site and get a good succinct oration together. Any tidbits that you guys feel would be a must to present in my speach would be greatly accepted. I want to be short, sweet, factual and not repeat what everyone else is saying.
Thanks!

onecatandonedog
November 9th, 2004, 01:37 PM
i like pets but they are a big responsibility, some people shouldn't have pets. my neighbour has a dog that barks over and over again for hours so i phone the police on it. also there is a large pitbull and the people at that house let it walk around on the street without a leash so i phone the animal control. they are so annoying, i never let my dog bark over and over again and they are safely enclosed behind a fence in my backyard because a dogs behaviour is unpredictable. even a nice dog can bite all of a sudden.


also my friend has a neghbour far down the street with a vicious attack pitbull hat is always chained to their door and my friend opens their window one day to see the pitbull in his yard, and the owner came by later to get it and didnt care. but then when you phone the police on these people for this sort of thing they get angry and pretend they are being victimized.

Schwinn
November 9th, 2004, 01:47 PM
Okay, who let the troll in?


lezzerpezzer:You might want to consult with some local breeders of the other dogs (I find it surprising about the rottweillers and the akita's. Has there been problems? Sounds like fear-mongering to me).

Best of luck. Let us know how it goes, and keep us up to date on any other developments down there.

mastifflover
November 9th, 2004, 01:57 PM
I agree with Schwinn on both counts Akita like Rotties or any other dog for that matter can be aggressive if brought up that way but my brothers Akita is a big lap dog but if you go near my niece or nephew let me rephrase that try and go near them she will circle them so no one she doesn't know is allowed near them. If my bro or his wife call her and say its okay she will go lie down. This is something she started doing when they were babies and is never aggressive but very protective. yes troll

Jake's mom
November 9th, 2004, 02:01 PM
I will be at that meeting with bells on. I have already sent an email to this Jay stanford guy. I wanted to know who was going to protect us (the dog owners) I was walking my Rottie the other day on a leash in a park, some idiot came up to me and spit on me and kicked the dog. Poor Jake(my Rottie) just stood there looking at this person probably thinking to hiself now who should be muzzled and leashed. Then I walk into work and one of my co workers says to me "so I guess someone can come into your house take your dog and have it put to sleep, what country do we live in again??" Sad but true if this goes through. Don't they need some truthful fax before a by law is passed? By the way I am a newbie. Hi

Schwinn
November 9th, 2004, 02:17 PM
I'm disgusted by the stories I'm hearing of abuse! I, fortunately, have never run into that. I say fortunatly both for the person who would do that, and for me, who is trying to get on the police force, and can't if there are any charges pending. But I digress...

I only find it surprising about the rottweilers and akitas because you don't usually hear much about those breeds. I'm not surprised that some maroon who wanted to outlaw a dog would pick on those breeds, since they are powerful, only that they were singled out. If that were to go through, I think you'd see breeds added to the list even faster than the Ontario proprosal.

lezzpezz
November 9th, 2004, 03:05 PM
I am glad that Jakes mom will be at the meeting too! Look for me: I'll have a white sweatshirt on that says "Punish the deed not the breed". I intend on speaking at the meeting as well.

Just so you know, Jay has set up the task force to deal with "dangerous dogs" etc. and has asked the pres. of our group, London Dog Owners' Association, to be on this committee. I gather there are alot of folks on this task force that have various degrees of dog knowledge and bylaw knowledge. There might be some good ideas that come from this group, but it looks like a witchhunt to me.

If you want to contact me prior to the meeting Jakes mom, you most certainly may and we can get our thoughts together!

And thank you Schwinn for the suggestion about contacting Akita and Rottie breeders. I am going on a fact finding mission. This is bullpucky and it has to stop NOW. Can't let this pucky spread to other communities!!

Dukieboy
November 9th, 2004, 03:16 PM
Okay, who let the troll in?

.

Yup, onecatonedog posted this on Oct 30, 2004

you're right, there are rarely bad dog breeds, pitbulls are one of those rarities.

a pitbull jumped up on my lap so i ran away really fast and i outran it.

onecatandonedog
November 11th, 2004, 11:43 AM
i'm a "troll", whatever that's supposed to mean just because i don't like pitbulls?

and that quote was in response to someone who said that there is rarely bad dog breeds. so why did you quote me?


pitbulls should be banned, that's my opinion.

Luvmypit
November 11th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Umm then get of this thread. we obviously are against it and the only reason your here is to cause a rise in us. Thats your opinion but anyone who is for it is ignorant. Especially an animal lover. When there are so many reasons not to support it then I can only chalk it up to stupidity and lack of research.

sammiec
November 11th, 2004, 12:03 PM
NOt to start and argument or anything... but please, onecatandonedog, enlighten us as to why you believe that pit bulls should be banned.

This is the best opportunity to hear the other side guys! Please, let him/her speak their mind... is there reason behind you're insisting they are banned?

Schwinn
November 11th, 2004, 12:27 PM
NOt to start and argument or anything... but please, onecatandonedog, enlighten us as to why you believe that pit bulls should be banned.

This is the best opportunity to hear the other side guys! Please, let him/her speak their mind... is there reason behind you're insisting they are banned?

Normally I would agree with you on this whole-heartededly, but his/her responses are so nonsensical and flammatory, I can only assume it's troll-bait, or someone of reduced capacity.

Luvmypit
November 11th, 2004, 12:36 PM
I have to agree. I would enjoy a good ol debate if that was possible. But I think with onecatonedog we will just get ignorant half truths and stuff he/she read in the media. Its just not worth it.

Since you support this ban I hope someone calls your dog menancing and when the cops walk right into your house and seize your dog (doesn't have to be a pit) you will kick your self so hard you will be wishing you joined our fight. Although I don't wish that on any dog.

Honestly if you have some real hard facts where willing to hear it but if your just going to repeat what you heard Mr. Bryant say then don't bother.

Copper'sMom
November 11th, 2004, 12:49 PM
Lezzerpezzer,

If I were you, I would document everything you possibly can about your dogs and what they do and when they do it when it involves neighbours walking by, barking etc. If you can, video tape your dogs on random days when they are outside and people walk by just so you have proof that your dogs are NOT menacing. Keep track of your awful neighbours comments and incidents with dates and times and witnesses if possible. This may help you out if someone were to come "investigate" your dogs. If you have more confrontations with your neighbour and the police are involved, ask if you can have a police report and tell them exactly why. If animal control will be policing menacing dogs, I'm sure they will be able to tell whether or not your dogs are menacing. If they don't feel threatened by your dogs and they see the dogs live in a proper environment etc. they will just laugh at your neighbour!

If the police are policing these laws, I'm sure investigating menacing dogs will be on their least to-do-list. Afterall, it would take their time away from Tim Hortons!!!........................................ ..Just kidding :crazy:

Good Luck and I wish you well.

Schwinn
November 11th, 2004, 12:59 PM
I would also try to get your other neighbours to make friends with you dog. They'll become good allies if anything happens. Just talk and say "hi" when you see them, eventually they may warm up to him/her if they haven't already.

Akeeter
November 11th, 2004, 01:02 PM
If a dog (any dog) is running around off leash, or barking 24/7, you are entitled to call animal control (running loose) or the Police in the case of the barking. But, noise regulations are often a local issue, so it's possible that making Any amount of noise between 7 a.m. & 11 p.m. (depending on rules in London) is allowed.

Also, what do these issues have to do with a Pit Bull ban? :confused: All dogs bark, & any dog running lose can cause a car accident with human injuries or fatalities. The dog can be hurt or killed too by a car or truck. Dogs running loose can scare people on foot, on bikes, or walking their own dog.

All of these things are illegal, all are problems. & all kinds/breeds of dogs do them. Most are directly related to the owners, not the dogs. You don't allow your own dog to bark day & night, & you don't allow your dog to run around out of your yard. You neighbours should act like you. :thumbs up But why ban Pit Bulls, or Labradors for that matter, because some of you neighbours are not very responsible or considerate of their own dogs, or their neighbours?

(We have an old cranky Labrador around here that gets loose occassionally. She will go after (bite) both my on leash dogs when I walk them. There is also a large Golden that has a habit of escaping & running loose, but it doesn't bite other dogs. One of my dogs is a Lab. too. So, should I ask my City councellor to ban All Retrievers in this area because 2 of them here get into trouble?) :confused:

lezzpezz
November 11th, 2004, 02:20 PM
Thanks Coppersmom and Schwinn for the advice. If all of this crap in London actually amounts to new bogus bylaws, then I most certainly will start documenting the daily behaviour of my dogs, but not until that day. The bad news is that the old coot next door is soon to retire and then we will have him 24/7 :(

As for the other folks on the street....the kids down the street come to play with my dogs all of the time; I have 7 dogs in my yard at any given time, and they all belong to the neighbours! We all get along fine except for the knob to the north!! It seems we have a very doggy "hood"! There must be at least 15 dogs on the street and only 20 houses!! And we all get along famously!

I did not get on the docket to be a presenter at the Nov.16th meeting, as I just missed the cut off time. They tried to get me on, but will allow the public to speak after 5:30 p.m., and this is where I will start blabbing. I will try not to repeat the same stuff that has been said over and over, but will take notes during and fire away with what's left and needs highliting!

Schwinn
November 11th, 2004, 02:51 PM
lezzerpezzer, I wouldn't worry too much about the crotchey fart next door. If you have that tight-nit of a neighbourhood, it sounds like you'll have more than enough allies. Just hang in there and try to ignore him. Oh, and maybe put off "poop patrol" when he's downwind. ;)

lezzpezz
November 11th, 2004, 03:41 PM
Hardy har har! I have actually been trying to get my dogs to deposit on his lawn, but they never seem to want to do it! Oh well, that would just inflame things. He really is his own worst enemy!
The guy on the other side of the "crochety fart" has just moved his mother, who was living in the lower half of the house, to a seniors facility. He said the moment his mother moved out, he was gonna rent the apartment out to a family, (preferrably Hells Angels!) with 9 screaming kids, 3 dogs and a lot of revving car engines, just to pizz this goof off! I can't WAIT to see who he rents the place to! Who's laughing now!!!!