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Now what? Advice anyone?

Dukieboy
November 2nd, 2004, 11:27 AM
I registered my dog with the City last week. I got the license yesterday. On my application I put that his BREED was UNKNOWN MIX.

On the registration they sent back they had ID'd him as PITBULL MIX. So I emailed the Manager at Animal Services, she emailed me back the name of the supervisor. So the supervisor calls me and I asked him how he established that my dog was a pitbull without ever having seen him. First he said I put it on the app. I said no way, UNKNOWN MIX. So then he said oh someone called the vet. I said I would follow up with that but I didn't think they would communicate with a third party about my dog without my consent. I told him to send his explaination via email.

Then I get on the phone with the Animal Hospital. The receptionist tells me they do disclose info and that I signed the consent. I asked her to fax me a copy of the consent because I was never given a copy. She agreed to. I also asked her for the name of the Vet that disclosed the opinion. She said there was no note in the file indicating that there had been a third party info request. She further stated she didn't think there would have to be. I told her I wanted the name of the Vet that spoke with the City. She said she would get back to me. I haven't heard back from her as yet.

Schwinn
November 2nd, 2004, 11:43 AM
We've avoided registering Daisy for a few years now (on the advice of several vets). Then, one day when my mother-in-law was visiting, the doorbell rang. Of course, Daisy, wanting to see who it was, went barking to the door. It was animal control, checking to see if we had a dog. Needless to say, she had her answer. Seems the people who lived there before us had one, and when a license wasn't purchased in the previous year, they go door to door. Anyway, my mother-in-law just said Rotti-mix. They seemed content with that (I don't know if they even saw the dog).

Do you know what her mix is? We have a pretty good feeling that we coud get our vet to declare her a mutt, without naming pitbull. I don't know if it's too late for you, but I would maybe check with your vet, see if they will do the same.

sammiec
November 2nd, 2004, 11:51 AM
IMHO, please don't get upset... But I have a hard time understanding why pit bull owners are afraid to say that they have one. I think it's a little irresponsible, that's just me. I never hid behind the fact that she's a pit. She's registered as a pit, the vet knows that she is and her microchip says that she's a pit bull. I may have to face uncertain scrutiny about it, but I'm not ashamed and do not hide it.
People ask what kind of dog she is and knowing the reaction I will get, I tell them the truth.
I just find it kinda hurtful that people stand up and stay how proud they are about their pitties and then turn around and play games about their breed, as if they're embarassed. Please don't be upset, I just want to understand, why!?!? :o

Dukieboy
November 2nd, 2004, 11:52 AM
animal services is saying they don't accept "mutt"

"we require the best guess at the primary and secondary breeds that your dog looks like in order to properly register your dog."

- Eletta Purdy, Manager

Dukieboy
November 2nd, 2004, 11:54 AM
for me, right now, the issue is muzzle/constant leash or no muzzle/constant leash. the other issue is the what is a pit bull anyway issue and who decides.

sammiec
November 2nd, 2004, 11:55 AM
Animal Service do accept a dominant breed cross. Therefore your dog would be a pit bull cross, am I right?

mastifflover
November 2nd, 2004, 11:58 AM
Sammie I don't think that the people here are embarrassed by the breed. I think in most cases they are trying to protect their dogs from wearing muzzles and all the rest of the crap that comes from MB. If you can and I probably would find some way that my dog would not have to be muzzled I would lie to. Sorry but that is the way I feel. At least they are not dumping their dogs like so many others and the law has not passed yet. You know it is amazing how fast this is happening and when they were trying to get Holly's Law passed that took longer, I guess they have their priorities don't they.

Dukieboy
November 2nd, 2004, 11:59 AM
my dog is a mix of at least two breeds, his parents parents were also mixed.

sammiec
November 2nd, 2004, 12:00 PM
for me, right now, the issue is muzzle/constant leash or no muzzle/constant leash. the other issue is the what is a pit bull anyway issue and who decides.

You're absolutely right that the vet had no right to put that information without concent from you. I agree 110%.

You're also right that there are many issues. I too have to face the possiblilty that we cannot rent anywhere other then where we are living right now, until we buy.. my dog has to face muzzle laws too... but lying about her breed, or side stepping around it seems to be a little irrepsonsible, that's all.
It's apparent even right here that this imposing ban is forcing responsible owners to act as criminals....it's very sad.

I was simply wondering, please don't be upset.

Luvmypit
November 2nd, 2004, 12:02 PM
I haven't registered mine yet either. I don't even know how. My dad used to wait for the animal control officers to come around. So how can I go about doing it? Can I do it over the internet, through fax, phone? Or do I physically have to go and do it? And where ofcourse? Im in T.O.

I know I should have registered him but I haven't got around to it. I always tell people hes a pit its kinda hard not too. But I have said poodle as a joke on numerous occasions. Usually people just ask when they already know so they can be dramatic and back up and scowl at you.

sammiec
November 2nd, 2004, 12:04 PM
Here's registration information City of Toronto (http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/animal_services/licensing.htm)
Here are locations throughout Toronto
Locations (http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/animal_services/centres.htm)

Added: Please do it soon. If you're to lose your dog within the next couple months and it's not registered, your chances of getting him back are slim!

raingirl
November 2nd, 2004, 12:07 PM
If you are in scarborough, they have a place to register over by the STC (scarborough town centre) in the municiple buildings there. I forget which one though. Otherwise, the animal shelter on Progress, you can register there (I grew up in Scarborough)

sammiec
November 2nd, 2004, 12:12 PM
It's also a very good idea to have you dog fixed microchipped, if he's not already. It's a little extra upfront but MUCH more added security should he lose his tags, AND when he is registered you can get a life time registration with a microchip and being fixed. (At least in my area.) IF they don't give lifetime registration - it's only 10 bucks a year compared to 50!

Dukieboy
November 2nd, 2004, 12:12 PM
I was simply wondering, please don't be upset.[/QUOTE]

I'm not upset. Really. The only people i'm peed at are these folks that work in animal care who seem to be real insensitive to the issue and the difference one phone call or opinion can make in the life of a dog these days. I wouldn't ask the Vet to lie. Just to be wise with the truth. As I said, my dog has at least three breeds in his mix. His parents weren't pure and neither were thier parents.

sammiec
November 2nd, 2004, 12:14 PM
Have you posted pictures of him here somewhere?

Schwinn
November 2nd, 2004, 12:16 PM
IMHO, please don't get upset... But I have a hard time understanding why pit bull owners are afraid to say that they have one. I think it's a little irresponsible, that's just me. I never hid behind the fact that she's a pit. She's registered as a pit, the vet knows that she is and her microchip says that she's a pit bull. I may have to face uncertain scrutiny about it, but I'm not ashamed and do not hide it.
People ask what kind of dog she is and knowing the reaction I will get, I tell them the truth.
I just find it kinda hurtful that people stand up and stay how proud they are about their pitties and then turn around and play games about their breed, as if they're embarassed. Please don't be upset, I just want to understand, why!?!? :o

No offense taking. The one vet's response was, "People around here are idiots. If anything happens within 10 blocks of your house, yours is the first door they will go to". We aren't embarrassed or ashamed, we just are tired of dealing with it, and we are afraid of what may happen if there is ever a problem in our neighbourhood. Daisy likes to do this gutteral thing when she's playing, and it sounds like a growl. Let's be honest, if someone decides to call the township, and they see "Rotti X", thier reaction will be different than if they see "Pitbull X". It's sad, but true. In our old neighbourhood, everyone loved her. In our new neighbourhood, most of the neighbours haven't met her (or us). We like to fight the good fight, but to be honest, I'd as soon as take it to the people, rather than have it brought to us.

Luvmypit
November 2nd, 2004, 12:18 PM
Yep Im a scarbarian and I know which shleter on Progress and Markham right? Thanks and I think the STC one is the triangle building. Thanks guys.

Dukieboy
November 2nd, 2004, 12:21 PM
Daisy likes to do this gutteral thing when she's playing, and it sounds like a growl. .

My Dukie makes that noise when he greets us. Its called grumbling and is quite common. He does it when he is coming down the stairs and then his little bum wiggles wiggles wiggles. Your right unless advised, most people would think it was a growl.

sammiec
November 2nd, 2004, 12:25 PM
I know all to well what you're saying Schwinn. I too deal with it all the time... I just don't hide from it...I often fear that neighbours might try and feed her something poisonous, or are plotting against us... I have not received one complaint from the building manager, but that doesn't mean there are none.

My dog growls and bites as she plays too, but I don't find those excuses to say that she's a boxer, not a pit bull... that's all I was saying.

We obviously have different views on how to handle the situation. I'm perfectly fine with that, as long as your comfortable. :) But I personally don't find that I am doing her any justice by hiding behind a mistruth saying that she's something she's not. IF she's a mix and the dominant breed was something else, I would probably go with that as well.

I am in now way saying that you're bad dog owners I am just curious about why you would take that stance... that's all. I'm honestly not trying to start anything here... I keep repeating that, I know, but it's hard to convey your thoughts properly through internet... :D

Schwinn
November 2nd, 2004, 12:51 PM
I know what you're saying Sammie. Part of me agrees as well. I mean, we keep telling people how great pitbulls are, yet our actions seem to say something different. She has the markings of a rottwieller, except for the brindle on her legs. So we aren't fibbing, just telling half the truth. When we're out and talking about dogs, we often tell people she's a pitbull. Or if we go for a walk, one of our favourite games is when people come up and go, "Awww...she's sweet! What kind of a dog is she?", we usually let them pet her, and let them get a good tongue-bath. Then, when they are COMPLETELY enamoured, we tell them. Basically, when we can control the situation, we will mention it. Also, we're having a real problem with her being fearful of other dogs when she's on her leash, and she becomes VERY aggressive (last night, my wife described her as acting "like a maniac"). She won't attack, it's her way of saying "stay away, I'm mean" to other dogs because she's afraid of them (we checked with the vet, who explained it.) Which is funny in a way, because I've seen her do that to dogs, then later meet them off of her leash, and she's fine. Another reason we're afraid of people around us knowing about the pitbull part. In our last house we did the same thing, then once the neighbourhood gets to know her, we let them know. We couldn't keep the kids away from her! Once everyone knew, I actually couldn't convince my neighbour she was pit!

As I said, I've seen and heard the awful things people do and say when they find out a dog a is a pitbull. I'd rather avoid that and educate them on friendly terms. I think we are a little unique in that we can do that since so many people don't recognize the pit in her (except other pitbull owners!). It's also very effective when people decide she's a great dog before they find out she's a pit!

sammiec
November 2nd, 2004, 01:11 PM
I know what you're saying Sammie. Part of me agrees as well. I mean, we keep telling people how great pitbulls are, yet our actions seem to say something different.

That's EXACTLY what I mean!! I guess it takes a special personality to want to be scolded because of the breed of your dog, or to helpfully give people ammunition against you, but I honestly would feel guilty for trying to prevent her from being what she is.

I am NOT ashamed whatsoever that I have a pit bull. I think they are the greatest and most loyal breed there is. I don't think I could live one day knowing that I let these people take that away from me; these idiots that know nothing about my dog nor the breed for that matter. I LOVE the fact that people know that she's a pit bull and even if they say stuff about us as we walk away. It takes one time for them to see us playing with a child that is laughing as they are covered in licks, and maybe they just might understand a little.

Schwinn
November 2nd, 2004, 01:57 PM
Please don't get me wrong. I am by no means ashamed of her. I use her as an example of the breed. One of my favourite sayings is when people say, "Yea, well Daisy's fine, but most pitbulls aren't", I reply with, "How come, then, so far everything she does matches what I've read and been told by experts, but I haven't seen anything that the newspapers talk about?" I tend to worry and have a temper, and if I don't have to worry about someone knocking on the door, so much the better. I don't need the stress of being in a confrontation if I'm trying to enjoy a walk with my wife. I'm the type of person that will feel angry about it for an hour afterwards. If I'm going through the drive through, I'll tell people what she is. I'll usually be talking about pitbulls at least once a week. I often like to tell people how our "vicious breed" wouldn't go outside the other day, because it was afraid of the cat in the backyard.

Like I said, I understand your frustration. We aren't ashamed, and we don't back down from defending her breed. We just don't want the hassles that the vet warned us about (I spent a couple of nights not sleeping just because I was afraid of the ban, and what could happen), and we prefer to educate people on our terms. That, and, I'm sorry to say, I was once against pitbulls myself. I always believed any dog could be mean or nice, but they made me nervous. So when someone else doesn't understand, I can appreciate that. Then when they refuse to understand, I chalk it up to being stupid. ;)

babyrocky1
November 2nd, 2004, 05:49 PM
I called my vet as soon as I read this and he said "that is a breach of confidentuality and you should contact the ontario veterniary medical assocation) Iaam in toronto but I would think the same rules apply. I would definatly cantact them thoe. That is just not right!

Dukieboy
November 3rd, 2004, 11:24 AM
thx for the post. I am just waiting for a written explanation from the Animal Hospital.

Maximellion
November 3rd, 2004, 03:18 PM
Interesting thread. I agree that if your vet spoke with animal control they should have contacted you before disclosing any information. Having said that I know I once found a loose collie/lab cross and called the rabies tag number and the receptionist was very quick to give me the dogs breed type before I even described her so I expect they are not used to treating this information as confidential. Sad but true, I also think that if I had a pit bull I was licensing now I would be sorely tempted to put lab/boxer mix on the application. While I would never be ashamed to have a pit bull if telling a lie no matter how big a whopper would save him or her from wearing a muzzle and a leash everywhere for the rest of his/her life I would do it. Of course I fully believe that most of our resources should be put into fighting this ridiculous ban legally first.

Mel

sammiec
November 3rd, 2004, 03:26 PM
I see your point. I would love to say that I can prevent her from having to wear a muzzle. I may buy one and only use it while on the building property (can't afford to loose my apt b/c of some idiot), and then keep it "handy" while we're out. Kinda like speeding, you don't do it when there's cops around right... (well, I do :rolleyes: ).

I honestly am not sure how to handle the impending law. I would love to say I will never make her wear one, but the sad reality is that she will HAVE to wear one sometimes should this pass. :sad:

BUT I think under this law -- if it looks like a pit and walks like a pit... regardless of what YOUR vet has on record... :sad: :mad:

Dukieboy
November 3rd, 2004, 03:31 PM
I think with things the way they are now I am going to have to challange the disclosure and the opinion. When I brought Duke in for his first exam, shots etc when he was a pup I wasn't asked about his background or breed. So basically, they assigned his breed and basically assigned a breed that is a collection of a number of breeds. I am not impressed with the science here. You would think a very busy animal clinic in the centre of Toronto would be sensitive to this stuff.

Dukieboy
November 3rd, 2004, 03:35 PM
I see your point. I would love to say that I can prevent her from having to wear a muzzle. I may buy one and only use it while on the building property (can't afford to loose my apt b/c of some idiot), and then keep it "handy" while we're out. Kinda like speeding, you don't do it when there's cops around right... (well, I do :rolleyes: ).

I honestly am not sure how to handle the impending law. I would love to say I will never make her wear one, but the sad reality is that she will HAVE to wear one sometimes should this pass. :sad:

BUT I think under this law -- if it looks like a pit and walks like a pit... regardless of what YOUR vet has on record... :sad: :mad:

I have started getting Duke used to a haltie. He wears it for the short morning walk. If its passed the haltie will be the muzzle till I'm told otherwise. Two of my neighbours don't like Duke because of ... well you know why. It has nothing to do with his behavior. I am sure they are following this legislation as closely as I am.

Dukieboy
December 29th, 2004, 03:49 PM
Hi Everyone,

I thought I would update. After letters back and forth to both the City and The Vet Clinic it was established that the Clinic did venture the breed opinion however recognized this was an error. Animal Services also recognized they had no authority to telephone my Vet Clinic. Duke is now registered as a LabX. Just a layer of protection in case Bryant succeeds. According to my new Vet, he contacted his regulatory body around breed identification and was advised that the owner is in the best position to identify the dog's breed.

Copper'sMom
December 29th, 2004, 03:55 PM
:thumbs up Congrats!

Dukieboy
December 29th, 2004, 04:01 PM
Thanks!! In the City's last letter they said if I sent them a picture one of thier Animal Services staff would decide what breed he was or they could come out and take a look at him. I don't think so..........

Schwinn
December 29th, 2004, 04:41 PM
Thanks!! In the City's last letter they said if I sent them a picture one of thier Animal Services staff would decide what breed he was or they could come out and take a look at him. I don't think so..........


I'd draw them one...in crayon.

Luvmypit
December 29th, 2004, 04:44 PM
I must say shwinn you always have the funniest come backs and comments. U always make me laugh!

seeker
December 29th, 2004, 05:26 PM
Borrow a dog and invite them over .People fake drug tests everyday why can we play the same game LOL

mona_b
December 29th, 2004, 06:21 PM
What people have to understand is,when you register the dog,it does ask about the vets name and when the dog has had it's shots.They also do have to check with the vets to make sure that this is the vet you have and that the dog has had the shots.Yes,they did call my vet to confirm it.I was living in Toronto then.And to be honest,I had no problem with that.And just remember,if your dog is not licenced,you will have to pay a fine if you don't get one.And when I registered my dogs,even my previous ones,it was stated on the application what breed they were.

So if your dogs are not licenced,please do so.

Akeeter
December 30th, 2004, 03:17 AM
animal services is saying they don't accept "mutt"

"we require the best guess at the primary and secondary breeds that your dog looks like in order to properly register your dog."

- Eletta Purdy, Manager
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I would think that 'properly registering your dog' would only become a necessity, if your dog were to end up in a City shelter, Permanently & needed re-homing???

I see no reason to classify 'Mutts' at all, unless the dog in question comes under the jurisdiction of the City, or OSPCA shelter. (IMHO.- Why do you need to guess at the genetic heritage of your own dog? :p If you don't care to play 'Guess the Breed', why should anyone else? :confused: It's not their business & would be their business Only & If you gave up ownership of your dog to Them!)

I think you are within your rights to ask Who gave the opinion, & are within your rights to ask for a 2nd opinion from a Vet of your choosing, if need be.
(I'd also be shopping for a new vet office, & not be shy in sharing this info with other owners of dogs who may end up on The List. (Rotti, Akita, Bull Terrier, Husky-types, & other Bully Breeds will likely be under the gun soon, too. Unless some kind of collusion -contract has been passed that isn't generally know about, I can't see why this is happening at all?? It doesn't sound legal to me.)

bluntman
December 30th, 2004, 07:45 AM
According to my new Vet, he contacted his regulatory body around breed identification and was advised that the owner is in the best position to identify the dog's breed.

This looks like a bit of good news, Not one animal agency has come forward and supported Bryant or the liberals on this. Now since Bryant will not listen to the Veteranary Assosiation, perhaps they have addvised there members to stay out of the breed identification bussiness? This would make a lot of sence, No vet wants to get draged into court over breed identification, because of this dumb law. If the law says it's up to the owner, and the vet's say it's up to the owner, I say the owner win's and the law is toast.

I"m allso guilty of changeing the breed of my APBT on her licence, I thought long and hard on that one, I'm a proud APBT owner, allways will be,
and allways say what she is if someone asks, but in the end I thought it's none of the goverment's bussines what breed she is, All that matter's is she is a freindy dog with a responsible owner, and breed has no bearing on anything else.
I allway get the same reaction when I say what she is to people, and my hunderd pound rotti is sitting politely beside her{ is that what people are so afraid of ?} No I say, It's not the dog they are afraid of, just the myth the media creates,that people are afraid of, and the political fools in our goverment fall for it as well.

Dukieboy
December 30th, 2004, 09:08 AM
What people have to understand is,when you register the dog,it does ask about the vets name and when the dog has had it's shots.They also do have to check with the vets to make sure that this is the vet you have and that the dog has had the shots.Yes,they did call my vet to confirm it.I was living in Toronto then.And to be honest,I had no problem with that.And just remember,if your dog is not licenced,you will have to pay a fine if you don't get one.And when I registered my dogs,even my previous ones,it was stated on the application what breed they were.

So if your dogs are not licenced,please do so.

If you provide documentation of your dogs shots and neuter, the City has no authority to contact your vet. None.

Dukieboy
December 30th, 2004, 09:10 AM
I'd draw them one...in crayon.

Well it would be just as scientific as sending a photo. Your too funny Schwinn!!! :D

Dukieboy
December 30th, 2004, 09:13 AM
Borrow a dog and invite them over .People fake drug tests everyday why can we play the same game LOL
I didn't have to borrow a dog. I took Duke to the new Vet who agreed, yes he might very well be a Labrador Retreiver.

pitbulliest
December 30th, 2004, 07:54 PM
Wow..long thread...here's my two cents:

My dog is registered as a pit bull terrier and I'm keeping it that way...although I may be threatened with muzzling in the future, what most people are forgetting to mention here is that the more APBTs that are registered as APBTs, the better for the breed overall..WHY you ask? Well because if we have tons of registered pitties that are good dogs raised by good folks that have never bitten or attacked anyone..wouldn't you all agree that would make Bryant look pretty stupid if we decided to use registration counts to back up our side of the story? I'd say "Look at all these registered pits, Bryant, and not one has bitten anyone you *******!"

Anyways, that's all I wanted to say....please folks, don't be afraid and stand up for your dog's rights....I have a pit bull and I tell anyone who asks just that...if I'm going to have someone giving me problems, then its my responsibility and duty to protect and stand up for pit bull rights..isn't that what this whole BSL fight is about? And yet here we are trying to cover up our dog's breed "just in case"....if we fight back, there won't be a need for that fear....I understand the "at the moment" panic, but I just don't understand the underlining hypocracy that's stemming out of all of this in the end. It seems like people are just starting to give up instead of pushing it all the way. :confused:

*officially steps off of soap box*

seeker
December 30th, 2004, 08:32 PM
Pitbulliest , I certainly hope that no one is giving up I think it is just the fear of the unkown as to what the consequences of this law if passed might be .
You make a good point about the numbers thing and even if the registy says the dog is not a pit it could be up to us to prove it isn't and we all know that there is no reasonable way to do this .

Dukieboy
December 31st, 2004, 08:52 AM
Bryant is insane and determined. I could do it, so I did it. I would do anything to keep a muzzle off my dogs face. He doesn't deserve it, no dog who has shown no aggression does. Duke is the one that will suffer and he really doesn't understand the politics, it just makes more sense for me to endure the label hypocrite then for him to be subject to Bryants proposed animal cruelty.