November 1st, 2004, 06:02 PM
I was just wondering..since its not being brought up as much as it probably should be..or maybe I'm just not seeing it. With all this talk about BSL, and all the points that are wrong about this new proposed Bill, I was wondering what is being done regarding animal cruelty laws?
I know that just this year, Bill C-10b was killed in Parliament...simply because nobody cared. That bill hasn't been updated for YEARS...and hence, nothing is being done about animal cruelty, neglect, abuse, and exploitation...at least not as much as SHOULD be done...I find this a problem..why?
First of all, Pit Bulls are amongst the most abused and exploited animals in our society...this is HUGE folks...I find it almost unbelievable that this just isn't being mentioned enough...it would be absolutely wonderful if this ban didn't go through, and we didn't have to worry about taking this bill to court..etc..etc..etc..
But what next? What about all the pit bulls that are being fought as we speak? When signing petitions in a really bad neighborhood nearby, one of the tenants of the complex told me that pit bull fights happen nearly every day during the very late hours of the night..she told me people always call the police but they just don't give a rat's butt...nobody cares...
I mean, isn't this the reason pit bulls are being picked on right now? Because of THOSE types of people? The reason I'm posting this thread is because I just want to remind everyone that animal cruelty and exploitation is very real..and besides responsible ownership, we really need to be doing something about the sickos out there that are hurting our animals...not all of them are "owners" to begin with...
Just some food for thought I guess..this has been bothering me for quite some time and I had to get it out on the table..thanx guys
November 1st, 2004, 06:11 PM
You know I have posed these questions in emails and still have not gotten one response. In fact I just re-sent every email that has not had a reply to it and even if MB did respond I sent it to him again. I feel the gov't screwed up and of course want to sweep it under the rug instead of taking responsibility
November 1st, 2004, 11:43 PM
I was wondering the same.... How do we stop the abuse? The fighting rings? and the made-to-be aggressive dog owners?
I was talking to a cop 2 days ago, and he told me about a man that he had arrested a long while ago. The guy was bragging about his "technique" to make his Pits and Rotties more aggressive. He gave them some sort of pill (Cop couldnt remember the name) that causes severe abdominal pain, and eventually eats away the stomache lining. The guy told the cop "they don't live as long, but while they're here they're mean as <<four letter word>>"
Maybe well bub is in jail they could slip some of those into his lunch!!
I just don't get it, what kind of person can listen to the obvious pain of an animal and not feel anything but glad about it??
I think it's probably the same type of person the government should be focusing on.... get more of them in jail, and not only will dog bite stats go down, but I'm willing to bet so will the stats on Murder, Domestic abuse, child abuse, drugs, and assaults!!
November 2nd, 2004, 09:18 AM
It's really disguting that actions like this are taken very lightly. I find it completelt appauling that someone can deliberatly cause pain and suffering to animals and they get off with a slap on the wrist. When the governemtn is involved all they see is all the money that it will cost it enforce a bill causing people to be responsible for their own actions. It absolutely makes my stomach turn..
**** For those of you not interested in knowing some of the things that have happened to pit bulls DO NOT read on ****
There are MANY curel and digusting things that people do to animals - skinning them, beating them, drowning them... but... I feel that NOTHING compares to what suffering and pain these dogs are put through in order to be a good fighter.
I had a discussion with someone a long time ago and it has always remained with me...it's really nothing different than the grusome videos that we pass around here... but they were describing how these dog fighters tie up their pit bulls, hit them with BATS causing sever amounts of pain (this is to toughen them up), They throw battery acid on them to toughen their skin, they taunt them by poking sticks and throwing things at them. These sick people would do this repeatedly on a daily basis causing the dog to go crazy with rage!
Many people muzzle their dogs and hang them from a tree while the beat them. :sad:
Sorry so graphic. I will remove it if someone asks....
What can we do?? Some way we HAVE to get the public more aware of how sever dog fighting is. There are groups that talk about it, there are people that try and fight it... but I think we NEED a very large group of organized people - like the children in 3rd world countries and stuff. We need som many people to help make the public more aware... this is what WE as humans do to these animals and this is OUR fault!!! :sad:
November 2nd, 2004, 09:27 AM
I have raised my concerns about this in a couple of my mass emails. Not one response but then again I doubt anyone is reading them. I heard some where that the animal cruelty laws haven't been tweaked in 112 years. I could be wrong but I remember specifically 112 years. I just don't know exactly what hasn't been changed. I am sure they have revised this since then but there must be one clause that hasn't. Does anyone know what Im talking about?
I think if anyone goes to that public hearing and they are going to speak it would be in all dogs interest to bring this to public ears as this will be broadcasted. If this ban doesn't come through then I hope we all don't forget about the pit and all it has to go through. I was saying to my boyfriend that we should personally investigate dog fights. Keep our ear to the streets and shut down these operations. My boyfriend is a correctional officer in East detention centre and hes definately got an inside view on criminal activity. Whether I just call the police and if they don't show to a pit fight I am sure Pulse24 can be there. Lets hold everyone accountable for our companions safety.
November 2nd, 2004, 09:29 AM
There are certainly groups out there that are dedicated to this kind of thing. It seems to me, though, that the problem is they are not getting thier message out. I'm not blaming the groups, as I don't know exactly why. But one thing is there needs to be more of a public awareness campaign. I would suggest approaching one of these groups, or the humane society, and asking them what it would take to make the public aware? I'm sure the answer is money...it costs money for advertising and such. I for one would gladly donate. I think I'll send an e-mail to the humane society when I get home...
November 2nd, 2004, 09:33 AM
You're very right, there are groups and it's a matter of funding, IMO. I often wonder if there's a way to get the THS to use their 1 hour on Sat. mornings to share information about this kinda stuff. They can ask for people's help with fighting animal abuse and that we could ban togehter and rasie funds to fight this, bring it to the attention of the governement, possibly in court???
November 2nd, 2004, 09:41 AM
I think if people are saying there is dog fighting almost every night we need to talk to those people and find out where then call pulse24 and see if we can arrange to catch them. If the cops won't go I am sure once people see these fools in action they will have to act. Pulse24 will go any where for a story, they have called me to be on TV once regarding a dumping ground I complained about in Scarborough. So the options are they its just got to be brought to others attention.
November 2nd, 2004, 10:53 AM
The one thing that ppl need to be careful about, especially right now, is giving Pits a worse name. I would be worried if I saw a bunch of Pits being rescued from a Fight ring, that all some closed minded ppl would think of, would be how deranged, and viscious these dogs can be. Especially if footage was shown of the dogs actually fighting. I am in definate agreement with you all, something needs to be done to not only bring the massive abuse these dogs suffer to light, but to actually physically do something to help them..... That being said, it's a scary time for Pitbulls, and I worry about any publicity for them being turned into another sort of scare tactic.
Talking to a relative about the ban (they are for it), I tried to explain the massive abuse they suffer, (among other points) and they simply said "well if they're extinct they won't be abused anymore".... It scares me to think other people could be thinking the same thing, and that publisizing their plight might in the end have the opposite effect then was intended!
Just my thoughts
November 2nd, 2004, 04:14 PM
Hi, I'm new here, but just had to jump in...
sammiec, Schwinn & pitbulliest, I've been wondering too, particularly about Toronto Humane Society. For instance why they reduced their Cruelty Investigations department by half between 2002/03, at the same time we were lobbying to get updated anti-cruelty provisions into the federal Criminal Code. Hmmmm....
I have also not been able to find any reports of investigations or charges re: dogfighting in Ontario. Guess it doesn't happen here, eh?
November 2nd, 2004, 04:32 PM
There have been bills sitting in the legislature for about 2 years and they keep tabling it for some stupid reasons and they dont have the money to enforce it. But idiot boy MB is pushing this thing through so fast so he doesnt and wont explain why none of these bills have been enacted to law. But in other word the pit bulls are paying for their lack of care and concern for abused and neglected animals. Maybe none of this would be going on if the proper agencies were funded to raid these fighting rings and puppymills and byb. The OSPCA can only do so much with no money and THS is not funded by the government it is all private donations. They do try but they are blocked by not having the right laws and money. We all know that the politicians are more concerned that they have a six figure pension sitting in their nice warm house then about some dog somewhere being abused.
November 2nd, 2004, 04:44 PM
Bryant has a better chance of making a name for himself pushing for a ban, than strengthening existing legislation.
I think you're absolutely right, mastifflover. It all comes down to funding. But I think if THS was to publicize the problem more, there would be more of an outcry from the public, and it may trickle down to more funding, eventually. Unfortunatly, I don't think they are prepared to divert funding from other campaigns (not saying that's right or wrong).
November 2nd, 2004, 07:16 PM
Here was my whole point about Bill C 10b... I guess renamed to 22b?.. Anyways...take a look :P
Latest Attempt to Enact Animal Cruelty Amendments Fails
Once again, the hopes of Canadians have been dashed. Bill C-22, the latest House of Commons sponsored legislation designed to amend the archaic and dreadfully inadequate animal cruelty section of the Criminal Code, has suffered from the same unwarranted fate as its predecessors. When Prime Minister Paul Martin called an election and Parliament was dissolved, the Bill died on the order paper.
The House of Commons passed the proposed amendments in March. However, the Senate sent the Bill to its Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee for review where it lingered and died before even making it on to its discussion agenda.
The issue has been debated since the first anti-cruelty amendments were introduced in Parliament over four years ago. The Bill has widespread support among veterinarians, humane societies, animal welfare groups, hunters, trappers, farmers, researchers and all parties in the House of Commons. The Canadian public has clearly stated its view by inundating members of Parliament with correspondence supporting the Bill. Nevertheless, Senators refuse to pass it. Their lack of action has callously defied the wishes of Canadian constituents.
The current system is not responsive to animal cruelty and suffering. There is a need to update the laws to make sure cruelty to animals is taken seriously and to ensure those who perform malicious and negligent acts are suitably punished. Currently, less than one third of one per cent of all animal abuse complaints lead to criminal charges. Of the charges laid, only about 45 per cent result in convictions.
Governments around the world are enacting tough animal rights laws. For example, in Austria , recent legislation prohibits tail and ear cropping, choke collars and invisible fences giving electric shocks. It also bans wild animals from circuses and regulates conditions in pet shops. The Senate needs to follow this lead and implement similar measures that protect animals in Canada .
Another new Bill will have to be proposed when Parliament resumes in the fall. It is hoped that Senators will take the desires of all Canadians into account when the Bill is sent to them for approval for a fifth time.
Please contact the following individuals to voice your support for new animal cruelty legislation:
Senator George Furey, chair, Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs CommitteeFax: 613-943-7807
Senator Jack Austin, Government Leader in the Senate
Honourable Irwin Cotler
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
284 Wellington Street
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0H8
Prime Minister Paul Martin
November 2nd, 2004, 07:34 PM
I was talking with my sister who volunteers for the Humane Society and the stats in the US are only 1 in 100 pits are adopted out the rest are destroyed there is OBVIOUSLY a huge problem here of over breeding and abuse and it is time for the government to step in. To be honest if this bill passes my husband wants to just leave Ontario he has given up on our society. We love our 2 sooooooooo much its unreal they are our children and probably will be the only. I would hate to just leave but I have to agree I am embarassed to be a part of this.
Totally off topic but have any of you donated to the advocates of the under dog for the lawyer?
November 2nd, 2004, 11:22 PM
By tightening animal cruelty laws, we'd be protecting both people and animals. I just wish the stupid government would get this.
November 3rd, 2004, 10:37 AM
The US stats for Pit Bull adoptions, according to an american rescuer who gave a workshop @ THS last year was close to only 1 in 1,000 of homeless PBs are adopted - that's how big a problem it has become down there. If we had been paying better attention to what was happening in the states we may have come up with better solutions to the problem up here.
November 3rd, 2004, 11:04 AM
We have come up with better solutions, just ask Calgary (I believe I have the right city!). Also, look at the inquest into the girl who was killed in 1998. Unfortunatly, the government is refusing to listen.
November 3rd, 2004, 05:14 PM
Schwinn..I can't begin to brag about Calgary..that city is absolutely amazing. I worked for the Calgary Humane Society for over a year and let me tell you..their adoption rate is incredible..you know why? BECAUSE they put the time and effort into those animals..they are trained prior to adoption..all neutered/spayed...they are carefully assessed..and the owners receive discounts on training classes for the dogs for obedience...the dogs are socialized and trained constantly..I was one of the trainers there and its amazing how different the dogs are when they go home...its really rewarding to see that a city is putting alot of effort into their animals...and to be honest..I have only seen one pit bull terrier at the shelter there...they aren't banned..but I'm assuming that they're just not as exploited as they are in this city..with all the dog fighting and junk going on..it makes me shiver every time I think about it...those thugs and drug dealers..and dogmen as they like to call themselves...the problem is, simply not enough is being done about these scumbags...period!
As for answering someone's question about the Advocates for the Underdog..I still haven't donated yet..I became a member of the DLCC a little while ago so I think alot of the money they get from memberships will probably be going towards the same thing...I'm a student and well..I'm already on a student loan that I'm worried about how I'm gonna pay it off...but I will try to donate some probably around Christmas...
November 7th, 2004, 03:18 AM
on a new anti-cruelty Bill. Everybody now -farmer's, fisherpeople, native people, trappers are all in favour of it.
Re statement about OSPCA & H.S's. They have to make more noise about dog fighting. They have many people on newspapers who would carry the story. Toronto H.S. has it's own T.V. show 'fer pete's sake. If they want anything done they are going to have to make noise, shoot some undercover footage or something, & get some attention on it.
However, I think that saying just throw more money at H.S.'s is wrong. THS is one of the richest H.S. in the country -possibly The Richest. And what did people get this year for their donations? A long stupid court battle to save a dog that had bitten 2 kids. :mad: And maybe an apppeal! :mad: :mad:
At the same time this is expensive circus going on. other things that benefit all the animals at THS are being cut back. THS publically appeals to people to avoid bringing any more animals into the shelter. S/N gets cut-backs. :(
There are some people & animals that are too dangerous to live out in society safely, & IMHO, Bandit is one of these animals. We can't 'save them all'. If we want BSL to go away, we have to be prepared to pts animals that are dangerous. :sad: (PItxLabs, Poodles, it doesn't matter if they are dangerous.)