Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

At the SPCA today

Sheriffmom
October 18th, 2004, 02:13 PM
Hi guys,
Feeling a little blue. I went to the SPCA today (actually 2 of them) checking about one of their dogs (already adopted). We were talking with one of the officers about the ### of Pits they have (at both shelters) and he told us that nearly every morning they come into work there is at least 1 Pit tied to a tree or the gate out front :mad: . He said ppl are just dumping them at the shelter. (We were at the Niagara Falls shelter and the Lincoln co. shelter) There were so many GORGEOUS dogs there... 3 of them really stand out in my mind 1-Athena a beautiful brindle Pit, she cried until you squated at her cage and petted her nose. And boy was she smart!! She could sit, shake a paw, lay down. What a beauty!! 2- No name 5.5month old Pit/Lab - abandond he was soooo cute, and was sooo affectionate!! What a little darling boy!! 3- was an older (5yr) brown Pit/Lab/Rottie that was abandoned what a beautiful, quiet, sad boy. He laid on the floor not making a sound until you walked over then he'd get up and lick your hand!!
I left crying I was sooo upset thinking that any of these dogs would be PTS if that ban passes. The SPCA worker told us that when the ban comes (which they are very against) all the Pits and PitX's would have to be PTS, as they would be unable to adopt them out!! sad I wanted to take them all home, sadly we don't own the house/yard of our dreams yet!!
I just cant believe ppl, tying their dogs to a tree in front of the SPCA!! No wonder Pits get a bad name with owners like that!!!
Sorry guys, I just needed to vent abit!! I am still choked up sad

chico2
October 18th, 2004, 04:14 PM
Sheriffsmom,that is just heartbreaking,I am just about completely losing faith in the human race :evil: Poor dogs,they must be so terrified and lost,probably waiting for the owners to come and take them home sad
I hope these evil deeds the owners are doing to innocent dogs,will come back to haunt them one day sad

mastifflover
October 18th, 2004, 04:26 PM
Well Michael has put this fear into everyone. They probably think they are protecting their dogs from the abuse that all these owners are getting from your average person on the street. Thank you Michael Bryant (Hanging Judge)
I am sure he has not lost a moments sleep over his decision

Sheriffmom
October 18th, 2004, 06:32 PM
If (godforbid) the ban goes through, maybe we should lobby that all the MPPs and M.Bryant should be the ones to walk the dogs to be euthanized. Give them something for their nightmares.... some of them have got to have hearts... right???

Yeah, I just went to the petstore and dropped over $50, on dog treats and toys for the poor guys at the shelter. I just can't stand to see them caged, with no toys. It just breaks my heart, I want to bring every single one of them home, and show them the love, attention they deserve. And spoil them rotten, just like my baby Sheriff.


:sorry:

chico2
October 18th, 2004, 06:42 PM
Awww,you are an :angel:
Is there not any chance the condemned dogs could be shipped somewhere else???
I still do not understand how people could just abandon their dogs,anyone wanting to take my animals would do it over my dead body :evil:

melanie
October 18th, 2004, 07:00 PM
oh chico i agree, only anyone tried to take her they would be the ones with a dead body :evil:

BMDLuver
October 18th, 2004, 07:00 PM
I lived in the niagara region until about a year ago. The Lincoln County Humane Society has a wonderful staff of people as does the Welland and Niagara... perhaps they could arrange transport to another SPCA ie. New York side which is very close or even Quebec if New York State can't help?

It's just an idea but maybe if a bunch of people lobbied for them to be transferred then at least the one's that appear adoptable could get a second chance?

Sheriffmom
October 18th, 2004, 07:12 PM
Yeah, they (Niagara Falls HS) said they are trying to get a few to other Provinces and maybe to NY before the ban takes effect. However, due to space at other places only a very few (if any) would be able to go. It is just so sad, and so frustrating. What else can we do?? Who else can we lobby??
Has somebody contacted PETA? Can they give us ideas on effective lobbying tactics? I don't know. Just venting sorry guys!!

lilith_rizel
October 18th, 2004, 07:39 PM
Poor things. I wish I could help. But rescues here are full too. i would adopt one, if I lived closer and had the money to take care of one. But we already have a lab, and he's a handful, and takes a chunck of my husband's hard earned money already, and another larger dog wouldn't be possible at this time. :(

I hope the dogs well, and hopefully they will be trasferred somewhere where they will be able to be adopted.

Sneaky2006
October 18th, 2004, 08:41 PM
I was wondering if where you guys are, canada or elsewhere, have higher licensing for unaltered pits?
With all the hype about pits in the last few years, some towns around here have it that if you own a pit that is not altered their license is $500, compared to 10-20 for being fixed. I believe this is what they came up with instead of banning, also, it didn't include the responsible owners because their dogs are already fixed.
If someone was out to better the breed, they wouldn't have a problem with paying these fees.

Sorry, Sheriffmom, I didn't know where else to ask this... I will start a new thread if you want me to! :D

chico2
October 18th, 2004, 09:25 PM
I don't think PETA would be of any help,the woman rep for(I think)Canada is all for eliminating Pits,Rotties,Dobermans etc...
I don't know enough,Lucky could tell you all about her :mad:

LL1
October 19th, 2004, 09:25 AM
I knew their rep who was in Ontario, she has since resigned, and she did not support BSL personally, is this the woman's own view or is she just following the PETA stance?

Sheriffmom
October 19th, 2004, 09:41 AM
Sneaky... No problem :) I don't know of a higher fee in this area (Niagara) but I'll look into it for you.

I wrote to PETA- don't know if I'll get a response, but I emailed them for help in the "Companion Cruelty" section. I have also emailed Pamela Anderson, and Jann Arden so far. A celebrity's voice tends to carry farther then a regular persons :p I thought I'd try and contact as many Canadian Celebs as possible, maybe one will make a statement against the ban. I have also emailed everyone at the TO Star, TO Sun, ST. Cath. Standard with the following emails (Sorry 2 long letters in 2 diff colors)
Hi,
I am not a Pit owner, but I am very against the breed ban, and would like to see some balanced coverage of the issue. There are many people, including experts and Vets who are also against the breed ban. Check out
http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716/ for some reasons against BSL. (Warning graffic). Also, check out www.pets.ca for quite a few opinions, ideas, and reasons against banning the pitbull. Did you know that any Pits at SPCA after the ban will be euthanized? How is this fair? Killing a dog without ever having been violent, simply because it could get violent? Is this not a little hysteria? Considering in the US there are only about 20 fatal dog attacks a year, and since 1980 only 240 fatal attacks- less then 60 were Pitbulls. It seems Michael Bryant is considering a bandaid approach, much like the Italian government, who are now banning Corgi's and Collie's. After removing the Pits, Rotties, GSDs, Dobermans, etc... the "new" dangerous breed in Italy are Corgi's and Collies. It seems that once you ban one breed, it opens a Pandora's box, and pretty soon dogs in general will be banned.
The approach that M. Bryant is taking is similar to killing a bunch of Great White Sharks after a fatality, or killing off Grizzly's after an attack.... this is quite commonly now considered animal cruelty, and not a very effective strategy.
Try http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.htlm , see if you can identify the actual Pitbull out of the 25 breeds listed. Most people can't, even SPCA workers have a hard time identifying with certainty the breed. This could also mean hundreds of dogs without any Pit in the would be put-to sleep (PTS) for no reason.
Thank you for your time, and hopefully your openess to do a balanced story.
"Punish the Deed, not the Breed"
Sincerely


[COLOR=DarkRed]Hi,
Numerous organizations, and groups have tried to get a hold of M.Bryant in an attempt to give him facts, statistics, and problems regarding the breed ban. They have been trying to give him information regarding the "other side of the story". So far all groups to our knowledge have been denied any and all access to M.Bryant. He seems to be steaming full speed ahead, on only the sensational aspect of banning a breed, not the facts. He has not even given the time of day to people who do not share his views, respected organizations. This is so anti-democratic. M.Bryant seems driven to sensationalize fears, for his own public image.
The only responses any of us that I know of have gotten is a form letter :
(Thank you for your e-mail regarding a province-wide ban of pit bulls in Ontario.
The McGuinty government is concerned about community safety, in particular
the danger pit bulls pose to people and their pets. Letters and media
reports about pit bull attacks have raised questions about whether the
province should consider banning these dogs.
Some legal protections are already in place. Municipalities already can ban
pit bulls under the Municipal Act. For example, the City of Kitchener has a
bylaw prohibiting residents from owning pit bulls.
In addition, a victim of a dog attack can sue the owner, and owners of dogs
that attack individuals may be prosecuted under the Dog Owners' Liability Act.
The McGuinty government wants to know if further steps should be taken to
keep our communities safe. That's why I've asked my Ministry officials to
look into this issue, in particular whether a province-wide ban of pit bulls
should be put in place. As you know, I want to hear the views of Ontarians.
Please be assured that your views will be taken into consideration in our
review of this important matter.

Thank you for your input on this issue.

Michael Bryant
Attorney General of Ontario
Minister Responsible for Native Affairs
Minister Responsible for Democratic Renewal)

This is the position of the Dog Legislation Council of Canada:

"The Dog Legislation Council of Canada was blind-sided yesterday as
Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant announced that he is
proposing a private bill to ban American Pit Bull Terriers in the
province. What surprised the DLCC most was that we have been trying
for months to present credible, current information on effective dog
bylaws and Bryant has refused to include us in this process. The
DLCC is a nation-wide organization that works with legislators by
sharing an exhaustive body of information on the subject of creating
dog bylaws that address issues such as community safety. If the AG
has created a credible report based on facts, not sensationalism
that draws headlines, it is being concealed from the DLCC and the
public at large. Our organization questions the motives behind
Bryant's decision. It appears this decision was reached without
input from the public, recognized canine organizations, veterinary
organizations, canine experts, health authorities, Statistics Canada
or even law enforcement. The public is also being kept in the dark
about the onerous financial implications of this decision that fails
to realistically address the issue of dangerous dogs. Promoting fear
through legislation based on lineage is, in our opinion, un-
Canadian, but it successfully makes headlines."

Why is M.Bryant being allowed to ignore any information that opposes his position? What is he afraid of? Why is he refusing to meet with people( respected organizations) of opposing views?? What is he hiding?? Why is he purposely sesationalizing this issue ("BAN THEM"!!!)?

I am hopeing that a media outlet out there somewhere will choose to take a stand and not allow M.Bryant to railroad this legislation through, without any input from the opposing side. Hundreds if not thousands of dogs will be euthanized if M.Bryant is allowed to ramrod this through.
Why is he being virtually unchallenged in his position to basically extinct a breed of animal from Ontario? What would people's position be if he tried to have every Black Bear in Ontario neutered, therefore causing the extinction of that Black Bear in Ontario in a few short years?

Thank you for your time, and hopefully your assistance.
Sincerely


PS- I am not a Pitbull owner, just a citizen who thinks extincting an animal based on a few bad ones, is a terrible idea, and opens a Pandora's Box.

LL1
October 19th, 2004, 10:07 AM
PETA supports BSL.


I wrote to PETA- don't know if I'll get a response, but I emailed them for help in the "Companion Cruelty" section.

Sheriffmom
October 19th, 2004, 10:16 AM
I don't understand how PETA could support BSL. They are against the death of any creature, anywhere. How could they support something that would literally mean the death of hundreds of animals?
I guess I'll have to ask them when I get a reply to my email.

lilith_rizel
October 19th, 2004, 10:31 AM
In the US, I don't think there are really any bans against any dog, or any animal for that fact. I mean, I know someone who owns a cougar, and is very responsible with it, as far as giving it the proper space to run around, feeding it what it should eat, vet visits, and informing everyone that comes to her house that she has one, and that they have to stay calm if it is near by.

There is a small difference in license fees if any breed is unaltered, but it is only a few dollars, no more than 10. And some states don't even require a license. James and I never heard about them until we moved to Maryland.

MBRA518
October 19th, 2004, 10:33 AM
I don't understand how PETA could support BSL. They are against the death of any creature, anywhere. How could they support something that would literally mean the death of hundreds of animals?
I guess I'll have to ask them when I get a reply to my email.

Because they are hypocrites :evil: ... but that's another whole thread.

LL1
October 19th, 2004, 10:39 AM
Yes some do actually.
In the US, I don't think there are really any bans against any dog, or any animal for that fact.

Sheriffmom
October 19th, 2004, 05:51 PM
Hi guys, This is the letter PETA sent back. Boy was I ever SHOCKED. And below that is my somewhat heated reply. I am truely disappointed in PETA sad .


Dear Ms. ,

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the legislation in Ontario regarding pit bulls. We appreciate your support and are grateful for the opportunity to address your concerns.

While PETA does not believe that every pit bull should be euthanized, we do advocate a ban on the breeding of pit bulls; indeed, we should surely ban all breeding of dogs, given the tragic overpopulation crisis that results in millions of unwanted animals’ being killed every year. However, we maintain that any ban should include a clause protecting all pit bulls already living in caring homes.

Before founding PETA, Ingrid Newkirk was the chief of Animal Disease Control and the director of the animal shelter in the District of Columbia for many years. During her time there, she initiated the first-ever spay/neuter, adoption, and humane-investigation programs in our nation’s capital. She waded into dangerous situations on a daily basis in an effort to help abused and neglected dogs, risking her safety countless times in the back alleys and slums of Washington. Over and over again, she rescued pit bulls from people who beat and starved them, chained them to metal drums as “guard” dogs, or trained them to attack people and other animals. This breed stands out as the most abused in dogdom. It is the relentless abuse of these animals that motivates our desire to stop people from bringing more pits into the world to be hurt and exploited.

Are some pit bulls loving companions? Absolutely. But nice families rarely come to a shelter to adopt pit bulls. Almost without exception, those who want pit bulls are attracted to the “macho” image of the breed as a living weapon and seek to play up this image by putting the animals in heavy chains, taunting them into aggression, and leaving them out in all weather extremes to “toughen” them.

Pit bulls offered for adoption to the public have a higher risk than other breeds of suffering a horrible fate. By advocating a ban on breeding this dog, PETA is trying to protect the dogs from people who would hurt them. This position would save dogs’ lives overall, not take more lives. Any good person could still adopt a dog—just not a pit bull who could be abused or bred to make more animals to abuse.

When shelters are destroying dogs by the tens of thousands, why breed pit bulls or any dogs? There are many, many wonderful dogs in shelters who need homes. PETA urges everyone who can provide a permanent, loving home to spay or neuter and adopt one of these animals.

Again, thank you for writing. I hope this information is helpful.

Sincerely,

Elizabeth Collins
PETA Correspondent

My reply to PETA:

Ms Collins,
I find your reply somewhat perplexing. Although I understand your position about the type of ppl who sometimes adopt Pitbulls, and I agree with you that there should be stricter guidlines in place to adopt (Actually to adopt ANY animal). I don't however, agree that just because a Pit might by the wrong type of person, that the breed should be banned. I find this statement by PETA to be extreamly hypocritical. The solution shouldn't be to ban a breed, the solution should be enforcing strict laws on who owns dogs. Enacting laws with teeth to prevent abuse. By simply banning the breed, those you say are the most common adopters will simply move on to a different breed (perhaps Rotti's or GSDs), and where will that leave us? Would we then simply ban any dog, simply because it may be abused?
In your letter you state: "However, we maintain that any ban should include a clause protecting all pit bulls already living in caring homes." What may I ask does PETA advocate they do with Pits in shelters and in non-caring homes?
I thought PETAs position in all things was no-kill. Obviously some animals don't rank as high on that list.
Sincerely

Sheriffmom
October 20th, 2004, 08:38 AM
I was at the Welland HS yesterday (see ANyone from Niagara thread), and I was shocked by the ### of Black Labs at the Shelter (5 I think), the HS officer said it was very unusual to have that many black labs. They also had 2 Pits --one was a 5ms old little girl.... I wanted to take her home on the spot.... but Yipee she'd already been adopted, and was going to be spayed today!!... That's one more out of the shelter, and into (hopefully, fingers crossed) a GREAT home.
I was sooo impressed by the staff at the Welland HS, I mean the Lincoln co. and Niag.Falls HS's were great too, but the Welland women (they were all female staff!!) seemed to be just fantastic. They stood around and chatted with us, about BSL, the dogs, adoptions, their funding etc... They all said there is so much more they could be doing, and want to be doing.... but lack the funds, and time. They all seemed very frustrated. When talking about BSL... they were saying they already didn't have enough time to deal with all the stray calls, remouval orders, day-to-day job stuff, so how in the world would they ever be able to deal with checking that every Pit was reg., spayed, had insurance, was muzzled etc... They said unless they get HUGE funding and a huge increase in staff, M.Bryants dream of ridding the world of Pits was about as realistic as the Gun Registry :p

PS- I am not affiliated in any way with Welland HS.... I was just really impressed by them :thumbs up

mastifflover
October 20th, 2004, 08:47 AM
They all seemed very frustrated. When talking about BSL... they were saying they already didn't have enough time to deal with all the stray calls, remouval orders, day-to-day job stuff, so how in the world would they ever be able to deal with checking that every Pit was reg., spayed, had insurance, was muzzled etc... They said unless they get HUGE funding and a huge increase in staff, M.Bryants dream of ridding the world of Pits was about as realistic as the Gun Registry By Sheriffsmom

Things like that are going to happen all over. Up until this point the gov. is crying how they dont have funding for healthcare and education, and many other programs. I am sure that parents and patients and many more will be very happy to know that the money they have will be used to rid the city of Pit Bulls. Amazing how there was no money but they can find it for something like this I guess this is more important than somebody needing treatment for cancer or some other life threatening disease, or education but I guess their children go to private schools.

elmoy
October 20th, 2004, 08:59 AM
Sheriffmom

you have Jann's email addy Wow!

Sheriffmom
October 20th, 2004, 09:33 AM
Jann's "work" email is on her sight under contact. I highly doubt it's her personal email. I don't even know if she reads the emails from the sight, more than likely it's just an assistant. But, I thought, maybe her assistant might tell her about it? Who knows.... stranger things have happened!! Here's to Hope :)

Writing4Fun
October 20th, 2004, 09:36 AM
What do you folks think of WSPA? Are they as "out there" as PETA?

LL1
October 20th, 2004, 09:40 AM
Google Peta and pitbull and see what comes up. This was a very heated issue a couple years ago.

Hi guys, This is the letter PETA sent back. Boy was I ever SHOCKED. And below that is my somewhat heated reply. I am truely disappointed in PETA sad .

lilpaws
October 20th, 2004, 10:05 AM
Okay, is it true that if the ban gets passed do all the "pit bull" type breeds have to be PTS? I hope not, and if this is the case that is horrible. It sounds so much like a witch hunt. You know, there are suppose to be intelligent people in politics (no laughing) you would think they could come up with a more humanitarian (I use the term loosely) solution!

Sheriffmom
October 20th, 2004, 10:15 AM
The SPCA workers told me that from what they understand, anyone accused of having a "Pitbull" would have to prove their dog isn't a Pit. So anyone (including me.... I have an English Bulldog Puppy, and while on Vac. in Ottawa this last week, numerous ppl said... "He's a beautiful Pitbull", or "Oh my Gawd, it's a Pitbull" etc...) accused of having a Pitbull would have to either prove it wasn't, or go and get it altered, get the insurance, muzzle it etc...
By going to the site findthepitbull you can clearly see what kind of mess this is brewing up to be.
The SPCA workers also told us that ANY dog that "might" be a pitbull will have to PTS at Shelters, as it would be illegal to adopt them out. They would be a banned dog, and the only ppl allowed to still have them, would be ppl who already own them.... once their Pits die, it would be illegal to get another. So in reality in 15or so years Pitbulls would be extinct from Ontario! :mad: