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pit bull owner in ontario

socks mom
October 14th, 2004, 11:20 PM
Just heard the news about the ban on pits in ontario, tried to send many messages to M. Bryant. dont think it is doing any good, media hype is not helping this cause.

I have a beautiful 2 yr old male pit. am appalled, and angered :mad: by the ignorance of people about this breed.

Socks, is a great dog

Pic attached

socks mom (valerie)

Bugsy
October 14th, 2004, 11:38 PM
Great and ohhh so pretty :D

badger
October 14th, 2004, 11:42 PM
Now I ask you...is that the face of a terrorist? You could always move to Quebec. A ban would never work here, much less be applied, we are too disorganized :) we can't even get minimal animal protection through the legislature, much less scrutinize one breed.

chico2
October 15th, 2004, 07:31 AM
Socks Mom,I am really sorry for all"good"pittie owners in Ontario and for all the dogs in shelters who have a death-sentence since they will not be adopted out.A sad day indeed sad

lezzpezz
October 15th, 2004, 07:37 AM
I am very dismayed by this news and the potential fall out from it. I am really pissed at the fact that you may no longer be able to take a pit bull to a public park! What hogwash! How else does one socialize their dog? From their back yard while it is muzzled and chained up???? Sounds like it will make the gentle and well behaved pit bulls back yard monsters.....just like the ones the gov't and the ignorant public is scared of !! To me, they are making the problem that they are trying to erase!!

Lucky Rescue
October 15th, 2004, 10:32 AM
Socks is so cute and looks like a sweetie! Who knows when or where this insanity will end? All the ills of society are being blamed on a breed of dog that most people had never seen or knew of until the 1980's.

badger, did you know that there is BSL in the city of Lachine and has been for quite some time? My brother lives there, and I have to keep Chloe inside the house when I take her to visit.:(

And NO pit bulls should ever be in dog parks, unless they are young puppies.

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 10:46 AM
And NO pit bulls should ever be in dog parks, unless they are young puppies.

What..... :eek:

I have to disagree with that last line Lucky.

I think if a dog is dog agressive then yes No dog parks, but this
should be based on a dog to dog basis. Not on the breed.
That comment seems a little breed biased...no?

Copper'sMom
October 15th, 2004, 10:47 AM
Socks Mom...He is handsome!!

[QUOTE And NO pit bulls should ever be in dog parks, unless they are young puppies.[/QUOTE]

WHAT???!!!??? Maybe dog parks aren't good for any type of dog as all dogs can be somewhat dog aggressive, even the little poodles!! Everyone should keep their dog leashed in a dog park or have no parks at all! It's not fair to ban one breed from the dog park let alone the province. Yes I realize Pit Bulls are and can be dog aggressive, but so can many other breeds.

Lucky Rescue
October 15th, 2004, 11:00 AM
Since I have a pit bull myself, my only bias is towards keeping her safe.

Most adult pit bulls DO have some degree of dog aggression,(from mild to severe) since they have long been bred to fight other dogs. A mature pit bull with NO aggression ("cold") is very rare. They are very good at fighting, and most like it a lot. You never know when it will manifest. In the chaos of a dog park, where you cannot guarantee the actions of your own dog, let alone everyone else's dogs, pit bulls have no place.

The smallest thing, even a look from another dog, can start a fight, and the pit bull will win.

A pit bull can seriously wound or kill another dog before you could even cross the park to stop the fight, while onlookers gasp with horror, and calls for BSL go out. Your dog might very well lose his life. I can't imagine any pit bull owner taking this risk, or risking the lives of other people's dogs. I sure wouldn't.

Bottom line: Never trust a pit bull NOT to fight.

You can read about this in more detail in this excellent PBRC article.
Pit bulls and Dog parks (http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html)

sammiec
October 15th, 2004, 11:00 AM
Bugsy, pit bulls are bred to be dog aggressive. They might not provoke the fight, but they difinately would finish it. That's something this breed does NOt need now.
I'm with Lucky. I took Briggs to the park when she was young, but not anymore it's too risky and it's not fair that I should put her in a situation like that.

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 11:22 AM
Lucky & Sammiec,

Then aren't you essentially saying that all pitbulls if provoked could be dangerous...and isn't this basically what the pitbull ban consensus is based on..to begin with? sad

I understand your point & agree some pitbulls can be dangerous, however if
you yourself cannot trust your dog with other dogs...how can you expect others to trust said dog with their dog or children for that matter....

sammiec
October 15th, 2004, 11:29 AM
Lucky & Sammiec,

Then aren't you essentially saying that all pitbulls if provoked could be dangerous...and isn't this basically what the pitbull ban consensus is based on..to begin with? sad

With responsible ownership these dogs are safe. Lucky is aware of what she can do and can't do with Chloe, as am I with Briggs. We can still lead prefectly normal and happy lives with our pets.
People need to understand that pit bulls are different. They are NOT bred to be human aggressive. That's the concern here, people think they are ticking timebombs that will bite your arm off if the wind blows, that's NOT the case.

Added: with responsible ownership you should NEVER leave your dog (not just pit bull) unattended with a child or another dog. It's an accident waiting to happen, and why take that risk?

chico2
October 15th, 2004, 11:30 AM
Yes Bugsy,but should you ban any breed that does not do well in a dog-park?? I know my sons JR does not belong with bigger dogs,she is always nipping at dogs bigger than her and one day..who knows sad

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 11:41 AM
I'm sorry... I still think it should be based on the dog..not the breed. I know
that there are pitbulls (fostered such a pitbull) that would not harm a butterfly.
Chico that actually supports my opinion, does that mean because that
JRT is agressive all are.

Remember I have owned a GSD, Rottie, Neopolitan Mastiff. I understand & agree with all points concerning responsible ownership.

Lucky Rescue
October 15th, 2004, 11:41 AM
There are MANY dogs who are highly aggressive towards other dogs - dogs of all breeds. You can't expect every dog to get along with every other one.
I've seen seriously dog aggressive Chows, Border collies, Dalmatians, Labs, etc etc. I did not assume they would attack children because of this.

how can you expect others to trust said dog with their dog or children for that matter

Dogs and children are not the same. My dog sure knows the difference between a kid and another dog. Pit bulls should LOVE all people. Dog aggression has nothing to do with human aggression. I wish this issue would not be confused.

Most greyhounds (and other hunting dogs) will chase and kill any small animal. Would you assume that means they would kill a child?

I would trust my dog with any person - child or adult - and with any cat or most other small animals. I would NOT trust her with another dog. She is not aggressive, but she is a pit bull, and any provocation from another dog could have serious consequences. It's my responsibility to not be careless with her life, or the lives of other dogs.

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 11:46 AM
No No..that is not what I meant Lucky.... I know that. I was just adding emphasis to a point...

Copper'sMom
October 15th, 2004, 12:51 PM
Lucky

I see your point now. Sorry. I don't go to dog parks(we don't have any). If I do walk my dog in a park(rarely), I always worry about someone else's dog coming after my dog. I fully realize their potential strength and what they can do. I was jumping to conclusions without thinking first(I always do this...very bad).

It's sad that I have to scope out places to walk my dog first because other people don't tie their dogs up in their yard. We live in a rural area so I guess people don't think they have to tie their dogs up. :mad: Copper and I had to run away from 2 labs that were chasing us down the road!! Most people aren't sensible dog owners unfortunately.

Tannerbaby
October 15th, 2004, 01:06 PM
I have to disagree....I take Tanner to the dog park and he does just fine.....If he see's another dog comming he tries to hide behind me! He will go in between my legs nearly making me fall just to get away...he is such a baby. NOT ALL PIT BULLS ARE BAD.........if ontario wants to make a law about one breed, why not inforce it on ALL breeds?!?!?!?!?! I was bit by a labador when I was about 15-16 and I still have a NASTY scar on my left are from it.....so who here owns a LAB? Do YOU think he/she is aggressive?!?! What if Ontario was making this law about them?!?!?! Put your selves in us Pit Bull owner shoes!!!!! :mad:

Lucky Rescue
October 15th, 2004, 01:14 PM
I take Tanner to the dog park and he does just fine

Tanner is a puppy, so is still submissive to older dogs. Please stop taking him there soon. You live in Ontario, and to continue taking your dog to the park as he matures will be putting his life in danger.

This has nothing to do with pit bulls being "bad" - and everything to do with genetics.

Yes, I've met nasty dogs of all breeds, but they aren't being banned and our dogs are. We must not take chances with them!

It's that I have to scope out places to walk my dog first because other people don't tie their dogs up in their yard.
I know. Me too. :mad:

Tannerbaby
October 15th, 2004, 01:18 PM
I will only stop taking him to dog walks if I see a potential danger.....Should I stop walking him at night also because of his breed/genetics? I take all safty measures possible before walking my dog, he does just fine and until I see some concern he will continue to go for his walks that he loves so much.

Lucky Rescue
October 15th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Should I stop walking him at night also because of his breed/genetics?

No. I assume he's on a leash at night. We are talking about off leash dog parks.

sammiec
October 15th, 2004, 01:48 PM
When we first got Briggs we went to the off leash park almost every chance we got. She was 5 months old and never met any other dogs beofre that - besides her littermates. Socialization of a dog is very important, and for puppy's I think it a fun and interesting atmosphere. They learn alot in a short amount of time.
She met some great dogs and we met some great people. I think I probably still would go there if I didn't feel as uncomfortable and insecure with the owners that began to show up there. It was honestly a nice place, not too big, not very popular, maybe 5 or six dogs. They didn't have to be near other dogs it was that big... But when more people started to come and just didn't give a crap about rules to keep the park as "civil" as possible, I began to get concerned for my dogs safety, that's why we are no longer there. She's old enough now that a potential for a fight could be there.
It's important to be diligent, like with children, you can't let them out of your sight - I'm sure you will make the right choices as Tanner grows.

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 01:50 PM
There are MANY dogs who are highly aggressive towards other dogs - dogs of all breeds. You can't expect every dog to get along with every other one.

Exactly...base it on a dog per dog basis.

This has nothing to do with pit bulls being "bad" - and everything to do with genetics.

Swoosh.......right over my head. Genetically prone to what ... :confused:

sammiec
October 15th, 2004, 01:54 PM
Swoosh.......right over my head. Genetically prone to what ... :confused:
Fighting other dogs.

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 02:09 PM
Sammiec how can you say that and have that signature...it's a contradiction
in terms. sad

You are saying if your pittie was provoked he would fight as opposed to backing down...i get it, but this is defensive. Unprovoked would he be agressive? If not then shouldn't the blame be put on the agressive dog
that instigated the situation and not the pittie for defending itself.

sammiec
October 15th, 2004, 02:16 PM
Bugsy, she doesn't go to the park anymore. I was saying that she would not provoke a fight, but if there was a dog there that felt like fighting her and instigated something, she would defend herself and win.
I am not contradicting. She was a puppy while were there and because there are other dogs that I don't know and cannot trust I will not put her in a situation like that.
Does that clear it up? I am kinda confused now??!

added: I am trying to keep her safe by avoiding the steretype that will inevtiably be placed on her if she was to kill a dog in the park.
If a jack russel starts a fight and Briggs kills it, you're definately not going to hear on the news about a pit bull that defender herself...

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 02:20 PM
I would do the same to protect my dog if I live in Ontario... sad

...point taken.

Lucky Rescue
October 15th, 2004, 02:22 PM
Exactly...base it on a dog per dog basis

We are talking about genetic traits, not individual personalities. Just as you would expect a border collie to want to herd sheep, a greyhound to run, and a husky to pull, you must expect a pit bull to be predisposed to wanting to fight.

Yes, many dogs are not friendly to other dogs and may get into fights.

When two dogs of another breed fight, one dog will usually "give in" and show signs of submission. This is when the fight usually ends, most often with little harm done.

Pit bulls IGNORE any signs of submission and will not stop. This is the way people bred them to be, unfortunately.

As I said, anything can start a fight in the blink of an eye, even between dogs who have been friends for years, and they will NOT stop. If someone wants to let their pit bulls play with other dogs, they better have a breaking stick and know how to use it. Even so, the damage is done, figuratively with horrible PR, and literally with an injured or dead dog.

A pit bull who has been in one fight may be eager for another, so the goal is to never let them fight at all.

Never leave a pit bull alone with other dogs.
Never take a pit bull to a dog park once past puppyhood.
Never take a pit bull anywhere off leash.

If everyone did this, there would be no need for BSL.:(

Tannerbaby
October 15th, 2004, 02:47 PM
i dont let him off the leash unless he is in our own yard.

why is it all because their ancestors were taught to fight, it means these dogs will too? I dont think so.....thats the same as haveing a family history of violence or a drinking problem.....I come from a LOOOOOOONG line of alcoholics........I DONT DRINK!!!!!! The cycle CAN be broken........My dog was and never will be subjected to the fights....he could never hurt a fly......a poodle could do more harm then him.

ANyway I AM NOT arguing the point about aggressive dogs in general.....I agree to the most point.....However all I am saying is that most of our dogs are steriotyped because of the ones that ARE aggressive. I for one do not want to be told what to do with MY dog.....I am the owner, I take every measure possible to make sure he is safe right along with anyone that comes through our path.......I do whats best for MY dog......enuff said.

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 02:59 PM
Ok, back to the original thread... how cute is Socks :D

sammiec
October 15th, 2004, 03:03 PM
SOCKS is gorgeous! Love 'em!

heidiho
October 15th, 2004, 03:12 PM
Lucky do you have pics of your pit bull

pitbulliest
October 15th, 2004, 09:04 PM
As usual, I'm late on the post...I have to say that Bugsy..your dog is beautiful..but I have to strongly aggree with lucky...as pit bulls were bred to fight..and you know the saying : "Never trust a pit bull NOT to fight"..well..that is absolutely true..

One tiny little look from another dog and a fight could begin...it doesn't matter if your dog is great around other dogs right now...all it takes is a few seconds...and once again, as lucky has mentioned..dog aggression and human aggression are completely two different things...it is normal to have a dog aggressive pit bull..this is WHAT they were bred for..

But for the safety of your dogs reputation, and the safety of other people's pets (especially during this terrible time in Ontario that pit bulls are dealing with) I strongly urge you not to take your pit bull into a dog park...they simply don't belong there....

Here's a great link(s) if you'd like to have a look at it..it explains about why pitties don't belong in dog parks:
http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html
http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm

Please..don't take the risk...for yourself..your dog..our dogs...the breed :(

Bugsy
October 15th, 2004, 09:24 PM
Pitbulliest Socks is not my dog.... I posted the last pic because we got a little carried away in this thread and poor "Sock's Mom" dog "Socks"
got overlooked (It's her 1st post too)apologies Sock's Mom. :D

PS I've decided we are disagreeing about the many shades of grey in this discussion however when it comes to the black & white we are all on the same side and agree there shouldn't be BSL. sad

lilith_rizel
October 16th, 2004, 06:13 PM
I can't see any breed of dog, being a "bad breed". We have the whole "bad breed" issue with rotties where I come from. I think it is all in the owners training, that determines if a dog is good or bad, and not the breed.