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soft palate mass

SuperWanda
October 17th, 2012, 09:04 AM
I wanted to ask if anyone else has experienced a soft palate mass. Our 12 year old husky X had an endoscope yesterday to reveal a soft palate mass that was very inflamed. It was difficult to determine how extensive it was with all the swelling and so needle biopsies were taken through the roof of the mouth and should get results in 5 days. X-rays showed some pneumonia in the left lung as well. The mass is on the left side so probably related. Our dog is not breathing well, especially at night. Her nose sounds stuffy but she is eating well and on antibiotics now. We were hoping that this was just a simple polyp that could be easily removed but are so sad to learn it is likely a tumor. We hope to learn in the next few days if there are any treatment options? If anyone has experience or advice about this I am just trying to learn more.

hazelrunpack
October 17th, 2012, 10:14 AM
No experience or advice, SuperWanda, but I did want to send along some :goodvibes: for your girl. :grouphug:

SuperWanda
October 19th, 2012, 07:46 PM
Thank you hazelrunpack,

After everything she went through with the tick disease I was hoping her senior years would be free of any major ailments. Still no results back on the needle biopsy. I've started giving her krill oil and turmeric to see if that will reduce the inflammation and help her breathing. She is on doxycycline to address the pneumonia and has stopped wheezing so that has helped but the mass makes her breathing very noisy and she doesn't sleep very well. I don't think she is in pain because she seems happy - still plays with her toys and goes on walks but gets winded easily. She must also feel pressure where the mass is as it is the size of a golf ball.

hazelrunpack
October 19th, 2012, 08:16 PM
Aw, poor girl. :( Still praying! :goodvibes:

MaxaLisa
October 19th, 2012, 10:34 PM
Well crap, I am so very sorry, this makes my heart sink :(

In any cancer dog with a history of tick disease, i would treat aggressively with doxy, since there seems to be a relationship between chronic underlying infection and cancer. PLUS, doxy itself has a couple of different anti-cancer properties.

There is a weak connection between the lyme vaccine and certain tumors. Weak in the sense it was mentioned by a vet at a teaching university and then I could never track any details after that.

Anyway, this dog: http://cinnamondog.com/ had a tumor similar to what you are describing, I think. Sander the Sheltie did suffer from lyme vaccine damage. No definitive proof they are related, but speculation.

Regardless of cause though, Sander was treated holistically and lived with that mouth tumor for many many years and died of old age (liver). If you have quetions, you can email via that site.

I like tumeric a lot, but there are a couple curcumin products that might be better absorbed. I'm a big fan of IP6 (enzymatic therapy, cell forte brand). Proteolytic enzymes too, like wobenzym or the like.

This really really sucks.

SuperWanda
October 21st, 2012, 10:36 PM
Thank you hazelrunpack and MaxaLisa,

Glad to see some familiar forum dwellers still here!

Hopefully we will know more about what kind of tumor this is soon. She has never had a lyme vaccine so no correlation there and she hasn't been vaccinated at all since she was sick with the anaplasmosis.

I am giving turmeric capsules which contain 95% curcumin. 300mg twice a day. Have no idea if it will help? I don't think it will hurt. It comforts me to know that a dog like Sander can survive with cancer to the age of 15. I'll have to look at the enzyme therapy you suggested Maxalisa, I'm not familiar with them.

The other thing that is bugging her is itchy female bits which started before the antibiotics. I have anti-bacterial, antifungal cream but it drives her crazy and she licks herself until it is red. Her vulva is slightly inverted. Her urine was tested and no infection so I think it is just external infection and I am having trouble getting that under control. Worried that the antibiotic will make matters worse so she is taking probiotics as well. Poor girl!

Thanks for your kind words, I will keep you posted.

growler~GateKeeper
October 22nd, 2012, 01:17 AM
No advice at all just wanted to send along some hugs for you both, I've been following your struggles with Timber's ailments :grouphug:

Rgeurts
October 22nd, 2012, 10:23 AM
I wanted to ask if anyone else has experienced a soft palate mass. Our 12 year old husky X had an endoscope yesterday to reveal a soft palate mass that was very inflamed. It was difficult to determine how extensive it was with all the swelling and so needle biopsies were taken through the roof of the mouth and should get results in 5 days. X-rays showed some pneumonia in the left lung as well. The mass is on the left side so probably related. Our dog is not breathing well, especially at night. Her nose sounds stuffy but she is eating well and on antibiotics now. We were hoping that this was just a simple polyp that could be easily removed but are so sad to learn it is likely a tumor. We hope to learn in the next few days if there are any treatment options? If anyone has experience or advice about this I am just trying to learn more.

Hi SuperWanda! I'm sorry you're having more issues with beautiful Timber. I don't have any advice on this particular tumor, but I do know what you're going through. Thorin's tumor was in his lung. We drove him down to Washington and had it removed, then went through a couple rounds of Chemo and another surgery to remove a couple of masses from the back of his neck/shoulder area. We had him for a little over a year after the diagnosis (he was 12, so he lived a pretty long life for a Malamute). People always ask why we would put him through chemo, and my answer is easy... we loved him. I hope and pray that Timbers is benign. But if not, please consider all your options and do some research. A lot of people rule chemo out at the first mention of it, and I was one of those... until our vet explained how it works in dogs. I don't regret anything we did for Thorin. It gave us more than a year with our sweet baby. If you have questions on the chemo, please ask :grouphug:

Robyn

SuperWanda
October 22nd, 2012, 12:08 PM
Thank you growler and rgeurts,

It is nice to have support here when you are feeling down.

I'm sorry about Thorin Rgeurts. Yes, 12 is a very good age for a dog that size. There is a malamute here that we often see on our walks and he is 9 but really slowing down. His owner mentioned that he hopes he makes it to 10. I hope he does! Timber has more siberian but she is not a pure breed. They say for a siberian the lifespan is between 12 and 15.

I just want both our dogs to have happy senior years. I'm one of those people who always likes to try and prevent things and have been especially watchful so it is hard to feel that I didn't catch this sooner. I always thought Timber would have more trouble because she has always struggled with allergies, arthritis and the tick disease didn't help. I think she generally has a lower immune system than our other dog who is two years older.

As long as they happy and not in pain we will do our best to carry on. It is hard to imagine my life without them though.

SuperWanda
October 27th, 2012, 05:56 PM
We got our results today. The cancer is a basil carcinoma. It is in the nasal area and is glandular in origin so they were calling it a nasoadenocarcinoma. It is on the left side and x-rays showed something in the left lung. They did flush some fluid into the lung to see if they could get any cells but there were none. It could be some pnuemonia or cancer that has spread to the lung but they are not 100% certain. The doxycycline has really helped I think. At this point she is not wheezing and can eat and drink without making terrible sounds. She is also sleeping better so I think some of the inflammation has subsided. At this point, she just has what sounds like a stuffy nose.

We could travel to take her for radiation but the odds of that doing much were pretty low. Chemotherapy is another option but I think that sounded even less likely to improve the situation.

We can think about those options but for right now our main goal is continue with a good diet and add in the supplements and vitamins I think might help.

Right now she is still happy so I am thankful for that. She doesn't appear to be in any pain and has bursts of energy where she grabs all her toys and howls at us to play.

It's just hard to think about this type of thing in her nose. Not the kind of cancer I would have ever imagined one of my dogs to get.

hazelrunpack
October 27th, 2012, 06:38 PM
:grouphug:

pbpatti
October 28th, 2012, 12:51 PM
So sorry that Timber has cancer. :cry::pray::grouphug:

MaxaLisa
October 28th, 2012, 06:07 PM
Well, crap. I am so sorry!

The two things that would be the top at my list, for anything remotely related to any type of adenocarcinoma (sp?), would be enzymatic therapy's cell forte IP6 (aggressive dose would probably be two, twice a day, away from food), and sytemic enzymes like wobenzym, fibrozyme, vitalzyme, etc.

Here is my cancer sticky: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/32998/Cancer#Post32998

I hope for many happy days remaining for your pack (hug)

SuperWanda
October 29th, 2012, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the hugs hazelrunpack and pbpatti. I will pass them on to Timber.

Thanks for the link MaxaLisa, I am just in the process of figuring out what to give her. I actually came across a blog online. About an 8 year old lab named Lucy with the same cancer. The owner had a list of all supplements and her dog went into remission so it is possible that something miraculous can occur. No harm in trying.

hazelrunpack
October 29th, 2012, 07:27 PM
:fingerscr :goodvibes:

MaxaLisa
October 30th, 2012, 10:50 AM
SW, I figured it would take some time to regroup.

Would you mind passing along the link to that blog, either here or pm? I try to keep up on these things, unfortunately, too much of it around :(

SuperWanda
October 31st, 2012, 10:19 AM
Sure, the blog is found here:
http://dognasalcancertreatmentforlucy.blogspot.ca/

I picked up some IP6. Couldn't find the cell forte brand but they had natural factors brand which looked similar: http://www.naturalfactors.com/products/detail/4518/dr-murrayand39s-ip6-and38-inositol

I gave her 500mg this morning. A book I have said to give on an empty stomach so I mixed the contents of the capsule in a little water and used a syringe to squirt it in her mouth.

Wondered if you have heard of AHCC (Active hexose correlated compound?) It was pointed out to me at the health food store. It is an oligosaccharide derived from mushroom grown in rice bran. This is the brand I was looking at:
http://nutritionplus.com/store/product/742/AOR-AHCC-500mg.-30-VEGETARIAN-CAPSULES/

hazelrunpack
October 31st, 2012, 03:03 PM
Thanks for the blog link, SuperWanda.

SuperWanda
October 31st, 2012, 09:32 PM
No problem. There is sure a long list of supplements she is using for her dog on that blog. I don't think I could try all of that myself but am just picking a few I feel comfortable with.

So far I have the coenzyme q10, IP6, medicinal mushroom blend, curcumin, fish oil. I also think I should add vit. C. I don't know, there are just so many different things you can try and I certainly don't want to give anything or a combination of things that could be harmful.

I have heard the IP6 can lower iron levels so one I guess you have to be careful with. So much information out there! :eek:

MaxaLisa
November 1st, 2012, 06:40 AM
Thanks Super Wanda, I found the post with links to all the info too:
http://dognasalcancertreatmentforlucy.blogspot.com/p/tippner-protocol-for-dog-cancer-in.html

That I a lot of tuff, but I guess every successful protocol I've ever seen uually ha a lot of "stuff"

As for the IP6, it will pull iron from the liver and the organs. My dad has been on it since 2009 and I can say that it hasn't caued him to be anemic. As a cancer patient, he gets his blood counts checked every 3-4 months, but I'd make sure you feed iron rich foods. I do think he may be slightly iron deficient, but for his cancer (mets to the liver now in remission), right now, I'm afraid to up his iron. Natural Factors is a good brand, so it should be okay. I couldn't pull the link up right now though. Dose for active cancer in humans is 8 per day. Dad, during his chemo took 2, twice a day, and in remission is either taking 1 or 2, can't remember. I would go less than two right now for Timber, and until you get her on a stable protocol, I would consider 4, in divided dosages, initially, to give it a good chance to work, since it may have traveled to the lungs already :(

Mushroom products are good and I would recommend one as part of the protocol. I don't know of anyone that has used the ACHH, but have heard good things about it. I have this I my cancer sticky also as options, products my holistic vet used:
Two good mushroom Products:
Power Mushrooms, made by Health Concerns
Mycoplex-7 by Gourmet Mushrooms Inc, not as well tolerated as the Power Mushrooms for sensitive individuals, but a more complete mushroom formula.

In the blog she mentions Yunnan Bia Yao, which I would recommend too. It can be used regularly, or only when there is bleeding, so good to have on hand. I know someone in canada was having a hard time finding a source though.

I may have mentioned this, but my "s" key sticks, so sorry for all the words that have the missing "s"!

SuperWanda
November 1st, 2012, 10:04 AM
Thanks MaxaLisa,

I hope your Dad continues to recover. Do you think the IP6 helped him or is is hard to tell between that and the chemotherapy and other meds. So glad he is doing well and in remission.

Timber has had no bleeding so am thankful for that. She did have that one bloody nose after being given metacam at the beginning of her ordeal with the anaplasmosis. I am now curious if she had the tumor at that time or not. I guess we'll never know.

MaxaLisa
November 1st, 2012, 10:56 AM
Dad had colon cancer with two good sized mets to the liver. They said they couldn't operate, but dad got them to agree to, but on the condition that the chemo shrank the mets in the liver (the colon had already been operated on, the liver stuff was later).

Dad is against pills and meds, so I knew I only might be able to pick one supplement. After some intensive googling :) , I picked IP6 becaue it had some research behind it, could be used with chemo, and I could find a number positive anecdotes on the web, and it was also part of Sander the dog's protocol.

What IP6 does is change cancer cells so that they can die, like normal cells can. After 3 rounds of chemo, both mets had shrank - one a lot, unfortunately, the other not so much. However, they operated on the liver, and both mets were over 95% dead, free of cancer cells. I am confident that the IP6 allowed those cells to die. Each time he stops the IP6, his cancer marker goes up a notch, so he ha learned that that is one thing he needs to stay on. The only other thing he was on was selenium, which he started a couple decades ago after he topped smoking. He did up from 1/2 a multivitamin to a whole multivitamin per day ;) This hit him in his late seventies, o all in all, he is doing well (though the chemo and anesthesia from surgery did induce Parkinsons :( )

Anyway, the only thing about IP6 is that it will also increase any autoimmune reaction in the body, as most all of thee supplements will, since they are gearing up the immune system. For that reason, I was never able to use them for my dogs when they got sick.

Something to allow the cancer cells to die, something to stop them from creating new food sources (blood vessels - doxy actually does this, it is anti-cancer and is used ometimes exactly for this reason, as well as other supplements), and something to actually attack the cancer by bossting the right cells in the immune system, might be the three things you want to work towards. I don't know if I forgot anything.

SuperWanda
November 2nd, 2012, 02:50 PM
Thanks MaxaLisa,

Your Dad sure has been through a lot. That must have been stressful on you both. You hear about so many dealing with cancer these days. I find it very unsettling. I always thought that giving my dogs a variety of foods, exercise and attention would at least keep their immunity up but cancer is obviously a complex disease and it seems we live in such a polluted world. I'm not sure if it will ever improve. It makes me sad.

MaxaLisa
November 3rd, 2012, 02:49 AM
I agree, we are surrounded, and it's tough to fight :(

SuperWanda
November 12th, 2012, 06:45 PM
I thought I would list all the supplements I am going to try if anyone happens to have an opinion. There are so many things out there so a bit overwhelming and I don't want to cause an interaction or have many side effects.

Right now I am giving:
IP6
Wild salmon oil
Curcumin plus Bromelain
Purica Immune 7 (7 mushroom extracts plus reservatrol and green tea extract)
Coenzyme Q 10
L-Glutamine
Milkthistle plus dandelion root

What I was thinking of adding:
L-Arginine
Selenium
Vitamin C (Ester C with Bioflavonoids)
Vitamin E (succinate)
N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC)
Alpha Lipoic Acid
MSM plus Boswellian
Wheat Grass Powder
Lactoferrin

Things that I might add:
Natural Factors Anti-viral formula (echinaceae, licorice root, astragalus, reishi, lomatium) in rotation with Purica Immune 7 (mushroom)

Things that I am not sure if I should add (seemed to have more side effects):
Ashwagandha
Artemisinin

SuperWanda
November 13th, 2012, 08:53 AM
Forgot to mention that the vet suggested 14 days on, 14 days off cycles with the doxycycline or to see how long we could go without it by watching her symptoms. She is now 14 days off so not sure whether to put her back on. She is not any worse so that is good but I wouldn't want to risk anything by not giving it.

MaxaLisa
November 25th, 2012, 10:09 PM
So sorry I've been MIA!! I got slammed at work and everything else. When I looked the other day, for some reason everything was marked as read..

Anyway, how are things going? Did you add any of those supplements? What's going on now?

The doxy, was it for the cancer? How is that going?

I have some comments on the list of possibles, but thought I would check on what's been going on first. I am hoping there is good news?

SuperWanda
November 27th, 2012, 05:09 PM
I believe the doxy was initially given because her x-ray showed something in the left lung, whether that was cancer or pneumonia, they were not sure. She was also wheezing at that point but after 14 days on the doxy the wheezing stopped and hasn't come back. She still has a stuffy sounding nose and makes some gagging sounds most likely due to the tumor pushing on the soft palate but overall she is no worse, has good energy and seems to be feeling happy and playful.

I don't think she is getting any worse so haven't asked for more doxy but I read that it is helpful for cancer so wasn't sure if I should give it or not.

Right now I am giving the following:
IP6 500mg twice daily
Curcumin/bromelain 300mg/150mg twice daily
Lactoferrin 250mg daily
2 Tbsp flax oil mixed with cottage cheese (Budwig diet) daily
Purica Immune 7 (mushroom with reservatrol and green tea extract) 325mg/100mg twice daily
CoQ10 50mg daily
MSM/boswellian 500mg/150 daily

Because I am not sure about everything else I kind of alternate so depending on what foods I am giving (which are usually cooked meats, steamed veggies) if I feed a lot of fish or liver which may have more selenium for example than I don't give selenium but I do add the following maybe every other day:

Wild salmon oil 1000mg
Vit E succinate 400IU
Vit C 1000mg
Alpha lipoic acid 200mg
NAC 500mg
L-glutamine 500mg
L-Arginine 500mg

I also picked up some nutritional yeast, blackstrap molasses, wheat grass powder which I throw in from time to time.

I have echinaceae and astragalus as well but thought I would try that when I finished the mushroom complex.

hazelrunpack
November 27th, 2012, 08:19 PM
Happy to hear she's at least holding her own, SW! :thumbs up

MaxaLisa
November 29th, 2012, 12:21 PM
I haven't forgotten, just slammed at work and had to pull a few near all nighters, which I don't do as well as I age! I need to get back on here with my laptop.

So glad for the response to doxy, it's amazing stuff. That pneumonia can be chronic, here's a very interesting site: http://www.cpnhelp.org/chlamydia_pneumoniae_anti

I tried NAC because I wanted Max on it. I had a terrible reaction to it. Can't remember what it was though. It's supposed to be great stuff, so maybe just me.

Do you have Dressler's cancer book? I haven't read it, just curiou.

MaxaLisa
December 2nd, 2012, 04:07 PM
.......

I don't think she is getting any worse so haven't asked for more doxy but I read that it is helpful for cancer so wasn't sure if I should give it or not.

Right now I am giving the following:
IP6 500mg twice daily
Curcumin/bromelain 300mg/150mg twice daily
Lactoferrin 250mg daily
2 Tbsp flax oil mixed with cottage cheese (Budwig diet) daily
Purica Immune 7 (mushroom with reservatrol and green tea extract) 325mg/100mg twice daily
CoQ10 50mg daily
MSM/boswellian 500mg/150 daily

Because I am not sure about everything else I kind of alternate so depending on what foods I am giving (which are usually cooked meats, steamed veggies) if I feed a lot of fish or liver which may have more selenium for example than I don't give selenium but I do add the following maybe every other day:

Wild salmon oil 1000mg
Vit E succinate 400IU
Vit C 1000mg
Alpha lipoic acid 200mg
NAC 500mg
L-glutamine 500mg
L-Arginine 500mg

I also picked up some nutritional yeast, blackstrap molasses, wheat grass powder which I throw in from time to time.

I have echinaceae and astragalus as well but thought I would try that when I finished the mushroom complex.

I would watch carefully for signs that you need more doxy. I know that it was not long after I stopped the doxy that Max's hemangio spread just about everywhere. I can't say for sure that it was helping keep it in check to some degree, but that is my belief.

I really like all the things that you are giving right now, they are all known to be powerful cancer fighters.

Everything else on the list are noted as cancer fighters too, but I think you have already included some of the most powerful ones.

If you look at Ogilvie's (sp?) cancer research (vet who used to have a lot of info on the web), he was a big believer in the fish oil and also the arginine. In fact, I think that's the big thing with Hill's Science Diet cancer food, it has high amounts of both of those. If you add the fish oil, the vitamin E is necessary too. My dog's never did well on fish oil, so I couldn't use it when they got sick. You can also consider DHA (algae based) if fish is an issue.

The L-Arginine, I have often been confused about. Here is some info, though I know that you've read a ton already: http://www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/cancer_adjuvant_therapy_01.htm#arginine It will dilate blood vessels, and if there is systemic infection, it may make it difficult to circulate blood throughout the system. (This is what happened with my GSD Max, so I had to take out all the vasodilators that increased nitric oxide.)

In general, for a non-cancer dog, I tend to have them on E, C, and often alpha lipoic acid and l-glutamine, so hard for me to say how strong of a cancer fighter they are. The ALA however is important in helping the side effects of cancer therapy (chemo and radiation),

I think the NAC made my heart race and made me feel like I was having really bad anxiety attacks, if I am remembering correctly.

Any forms of greens, as long as there is not an allergy, is good. Max loved the barley grass green drinks (I think they taste kinda icky myself!), but current dog is allergic to the barley grass that is in them. I have a little Ninja blender and each night I mince some greens (mostly spring mix, spinach, etc.).

I don't know much about the nutritional yeast and molasses. I know that my old girl did really well when she had things that had the nutritional yeast in it, max did not, so you may have to see how that goes. I don't know much about the molasses: http://www.homeopathy-blackheath.com/BlackstrapMolasses.pdf

I do not think that echinacea is nearly as powerful as most mushroom complexes. I would be very hesitant to make that exchange. I do know that astragalus can be very powerful, but I don't know it's actions as compared to a mushroom product.

MaxaLisa
December 2nd, 2012, 04:28 PM
The one thing I haven't seen mentioned, is melatonin, taken before bedtime. I think it's a good adjunct therapy.

SuperWanda
December 2nd, 2012, 10:42 PM
Thanks so much for your input MaxaLisa,

I will check out those links. I actually just picked up some algal DHA. I read that DHA was more important than EFA. She doesn't seem to have any problem with fish oil but it seems that the DHA is low in the wild salmon oil I have.

I don't have Dressler's book but have seen some things on the web. I think I came across a Q&A blog of his. Also have seen some mention of Ogilvie. The book I have from our library is Dr. Shawn Messonier - preventing and treating cancer in dogs. I like it because it has a lot of dosage information which made me feel more comfortable trying to treat her myself.

I have heard of the melatonin as well but haven't tried that yet. Sometimes I feel like I'm giving too much and then other times I feel it's not enough but glad to have your input. Makes me feel like I'm at least on the right path.

Thanks again and hope your work situation settles down a bit.

MaxaLisa
December 4th, 2012, 04:32 PM
Thanks, there are just certain times of year where I am swamped, and this time it's a bit extra. In about a week and a half, life will be good again :)

Well, if beating cancer were a matter of just adding two or three supplements, then I think we would have already found a cure. So, without really knowing, the dogs that I've known that have done well, really were given quite a few things that some might have considered excessive. Of course, then we are afraid to take anything out once we find something that works! But I do understand the concern about so much "stuff"!

My girl Indy had brain lesions before she died. She did do better when I was giving her the algae DHA. I took her off because they were causing her lipomas to increase (fish oil did the same thing). I had no idea it was actually helping her, it was one of those hindsight things. I would have gladly taken the lipomas in exchange :(

I have that book by Messonier! I thought it was a very good book. I think he references a similar book by Blaylock, for humans, which I also made sure that I have in my library. I have something that I can send you if you want to pm me your email? it's a pdf book about cancer which you might be interested in.

SuperWanda
December 6th, 2012, 09:24 PM
Thanks MaxaLisa,

Good to know that about the lipomas. Timber has a especially large one on her rib and a few other smaller ones. At this point they don't seem to be changing.I think I remember something on Messonier's website about treating them with Thuja. Haven't tried that though since it's not a top priority but was thinking that better fats like omega 3's might help to shrink her lipomas. Not sure why I thought that though.

When you have the time, I'd like to read the info you have. I will pm you with my email.

SuperWanda
December 6th, 2012, 09:44 PM
The other thing I keep wanting to mention about Timber is her panting. This isn't really anything new but I now wonder if it has something to do with the nasal tumor. She pants a lot starting in the evening. I always thought she was just warm, being a husky because she doesn't seem to pant if she goes outside where it is cooler. She basically has bouts of panting throughout the evening and into the night sometimes. I wonder if her tumor prevents her from breathing properly through her nose and so when she is trying to rest she suddenly sits up and pants for awhile to get extra air through her mouth :shrug:

I don't know, but it worries me. I don't want her to be in pain and not recognize that happening. It seems to help if I make it cooler in the house in the evening and the rest of us just bundle up in extra clothes and blankets. But some nights it can be worse than others so wonder if it really has anything to do with temperature.

hazelrunpack
December 7th, 2012, 12:16 PM
Would your vet be willing to prescribe you a small amount of tramadol? It's non-NSAID so doesn't promote bleeding. See if the tramadol stops the panting. If it does, it may be that she is panting due to discomfort (in which case, see if your vet will keep her on the tramadol). If it doesn't stop the panting, then either she's just getting hot or the tumor is interfering with the air flow. Our Priscilla panted more at the end, more from an air flow problem than from pain.

MaxaLisa
December 14th, 2012, 01:38 AM
I was never successful at dealing with my girl's lipomas. I now think that they have something to do with stagnation, and curcumin comes to mind, but I don't know.....

The panting, that's so hard, there can be so many different reasons. In most dogs, it's probably nothing incredibly serious, though with a nasal tumor, that might be a very likely reason?

My GSD Max had a lot of panting problems. Some I think were from a hormonal reason (when he was really sick, all his values were out of wack, thyroid, cortisone, parathyroid probably too since calcium was off). Another reason can be if it the blood vessels are dilated from systemic infection, say tick disease, pathogenic e.coli, etc. It's a bit like sepsis, and they can't pump blood to where they need it, according to the internal med vet.

I wonder, when she is panting, can you hear something that sounds like a stuffy nose, which would point to the nasal issue?

MaxaLisa
December 14th, 2012, 05:56 AM
Afterthought, if she is in a very acidic state, it can cause an increase in panting. Doxycycline will cause this, but I think other things can too. I had great results with baking soda therapy in this instance, it was dramatic.

SuperWanda
December 15th, 2012, 07:51 PM
Thanks again hazelrunpack and MaxaLIsa,

I will look into your suggestions. I just picked up some doxy again because she sounded more stuffy and was having trouble sleeping the last two nights. She was waking up panting but again, if she sits outside the panting subsides so I wonder if it is the tumor, pain, temp, food or supplements I am giving. I am going to keep a diary to see if I can pinpoint anything that might be causing it.

I read something about baking soda and wondered about it. I always want to give my dogs a good portion of meat but I know that it is acidic. I am adding more green veggies like broccoli, brussell sprouts etc. But maybe a little baking soda would help. I have been giving vit C (ascorbic acid) but maybe ester C or sodium ascorbate might be better. I decided against ester C because I read something that said to stay away from the calcium based C for nasal cancer but for the life of me, I can't remember where I saw that now or the reason for it. Too much information in my head!

Thanks again for your help and recommendations. :highfive:

MaxaLisa
December 19th, 2012, 08:55 PM
Heh, heh, I reset my cookies and couldn't find my pasword for awhile!

I hope she I doing well on the doxy again. It was always a life saver for Max. It's anti-inflammatory action might be just a important as the abx action.

It can create an acidic environment, some folks always give pepcid with it. I found that giving some baking soda, mixed with water via a big syringe (orally) anbout 30 minute after eating basically stopped his panting cold, it was huge for him. I gues it depends on why the panting is there.

I sure hope she is doing okay, I know how hard this is!

SuperWanda
December 25th, 2012, 11:34 PM
Thanks for checking up on us Maxalisa,

She is doing very well I think. Her breathing improved again after being on the doxy. I think we have 4 or 5 days left- trying 14 days on then a break again. I still need to read the information you gave me and now that the holiday crazies are over, will sit down and figure out if there is anything else I can add to help her.

Panting hasn't been too bad lately and haven't tried the baking soda but will keep that in mind. Do you give a certain amount based on weight. I can also look that up but read something about it being toxic - maybe that is in excessive amounts.

I just hope that something I'm doing will help or I'll see some kind of improvement. Considering our vet said she had as little as 5 months, I am not seeing any indication that she is getting worse so that is good but I still worry a lot about it since I can't actually see what is going on and I know how quickly things can change but trying to be positive despite the prognosis.

MaxaLisa
December 29th, 2012, 02:01 PM
Glad to hear the positive report!

I think it's really tough, since you can't really see what's going on in the inside, and that will drive you a little crazy. Nasal stuff is scary and often quick, so just slowing it down will be a win. Sounds like even just the doxy is doing that.

Are you giving anything that has anti-fungal properties, or contains something like Pau D'Arco? Just a thought that with the antibiotics, something to consider. But if you're giving probiotics, that should help. You can keep an eye on the color of the skin of the tummy and watch for dark spots. Hopefully in a husky they aren't as prone to it as Max (GSD) was.

I just made up the baking soda stuff on my own. I gave it twice a day, about 30 minutes after meals, mixed with water in a small feeding syringe. I'm not sure it really goes by weight. Max averaged abot 84 pounds. I started using about 1/8 of a teaspoon of the baking soda twice a day, and I think in the end, was using a slightly overful 1/4 teaspoon. It was very dramatic for him. Someone else used it with success on the tick list too. The doxy does create an acidic state in the body, and on a high protein diet, they are already tending toward the acidic side.

SuperWanda
January 3rd, 2013, 09:54 PM
Hi lisa,

I don't know what Pau D'Arco is. I'll have to look that up. For antifungal I use probiotics and I think lactoferrin has anti-fungal properties and I'm not sure but maybe the mushroom extract? What are the dark spots on the tummy to watch for - would that be signs of a yeast infection?

Thanks for the baking soda advice.

have you ever used artemisinin? This is something that doesn't seem to be common in Canada. I can find wormwood but artemisinin is sweet wormwood which is apparently a different species. Also wonder about Essiac tea but have heard negative as well as positive things.

MaxaLisa
January 8th, 2013, 05:41 AM
Yes, the dark spots on the skin are typically fungal, if they've been on antibiotics for a long time. I recently found out here that Oil of Oregano seemed to work for my girl here. I used Pau D'Arco for Max, which is a strong anti-fungal, but there are other products out there, so if you start seeing that, we can brainstorm then.



have you ever used artemisinin? This is something that doesn't seem to be common in Canada. I can find wormwood but artemisinin is sweet wormwood which is apparently a different species. Also wonder about Essiac tea but have heard negative as well as positive things.
I used Arteminsinin for Max, it is also an herb used for Babesia. This is the one that I used: http://www.vitacost.com/nutricology-artemisinin/ I just gave him one per day, I don't know if it helped or not.

MaxaLisa
January 13th, 2013, 05:54 PM
I hope that things are going well there, thinking of you guys!

SuperWanda
January 23rd, 2013, 04:41 PM
Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, we are doing well. No worse at least. It is cold here but that is what Timber likes (although nobody likes the -40 wind chill). When the wind dies down I can't get her inside. She finds a sunny spot and lies down with eyes closed in a snow pile. So glad one of us enjoys the weather. I feel bad for her in the summer and think that it will be harder on her breathing once it gets hot and humid.

I haven't changed much in my regime. I still don't feel comfortable giving everything at once so try different supplements on and off. Finish a bottle of this, start something else. I don't know if that is the way to do it but I'm not sure if I feel right giving all the immune boosters all at once (mushroom complex, astragalus, echinacea, etc). The things I do give every day are curcumin, IP6 and flax/cottage cheese mixture. I kinda make the rest up as each day comes :shrug:

Rgeurts
January 23rd, 2013, 07:04 PM
I'm glad to see she's still hanging in there :lovestruck:
I didn't read through each post, so I don't know if this was mentioned, but Thorin had a lot of night pain. Starting later in the evening, and then throughout the night, he would really pant, and often pace (and several times, towards the end, he would lick the carpet obsessively). Our cancer vet explained that it was most likely due to "cancer pain". She said it typically flares up at night and bothers them the worst. She put Thorin on Tramadol, as Hazel mentioned, and also a drug that isn't a new drug, but new in terms of treating cancer pain. It's called Gabapentin. It's an antiseizure drug, but research over the last few yrs have shown it's very effective for treating nerve pain due to certain types of cancer. It really helped Thorin. He stopped panting/pacing and was able to sleep through the night. Might be worth talking to your vet about. :grouphug:

SuperWanda
January 25th, 2013, 11:21 PM
Thanks Rgeurts,

Timber does pant in the evening. It seems like she has been doing it ever since she was sick with the tick disease. Is she hot, in pain, just having trouble breathing? I am not sure. It has actually subsided a little but still seems to come and go. I am also keeping a food diary to see if that could be the trigger. It seems to me she pants more after eating chicken but not absolutely sure if this is the only reason :shrug:

But yes, I hope it is not pain. I will certainly look into the two drugs you mentioned and ask our vet about them if the panting gets worse. She doesn't pace at all. Overall she sleeps very well and is waking up less than she did when first diagnosed :thumbs up

I hope your Nanook is doing well :lovestruck:

MaxaLisa
January 26th, 2013, 09:46 PM
I'm glad that things are going well - and not getting worse is well in my book! I understand about rotating through things, and I'm big on being true to "instinct" and that inner voice.

Max panted a lot. The internist thought that it was the infection that had dilated his blood vessels, making it harder to pump his blood. Many months after he told me that, I read something about some breeds that heat up, pant because the blood vessels get dilated from the heat. With Timber, hard to say maybe, with a nasal tumor, history of tick disease, and a dog that loves the cool, could be a number of reasons!

Max was very intolerant to the heat. He died last Februrary, which maybe was the kindest for him, because I did not think that he could make it through the summer, when we get very very hot temperatures. I so understand your worries about that!

But I am very happy to hear that Timber is maintaining :)

MaxaLisa
January 26th, 2013, 11:20 PM
Just thought of something when I was reading your post in another thread.

Don't know if quercetin has been mentioned yet? It is as effective as an anti-histamine for allergies, and has some very good anti-cancer activities. Just something to keep in mind, particularly if the clear fluid discharge needs to be addressed.

MaxaLisa
July 6th, 2013, 09:35 PM
SW, how are things going?