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Issue with Cat Rescue !HELP!

Dakkar
September 12th, 2012, 07:32 PM
I'm unsure if there is where this post is to go, this seemed the most likely but if I'm wrong feel free to move it to the correct category.

I'm having an issue with a cat rescue in Hamilton, ON. But first I'll give you the details on the cats.

I feed the feral cats in my neighbourhood, nothing special just some dry food so they don't starve. There was one fellow... he would come by everyday and he was such a friendly guy. He came as much for the attention and pats than for the food alone. One day he brought a friend with him, a very cute yet painfully shy female. When I noticed she was pregnant, I slowly over a week coaxed her inside the house and put her on a diet of wet and dry food. She settled in nicely, to the point if I opened the front door, she'd run the other way. :) Since she had decided she was going to live with me, I chose to name her Princess. She'd follow me everywhere and loved to be pampered. On June 24th at 3am she gave birth to her litter of 3 kittens. 2 females and 1 male. The male and one female were close to being identical twins. The male had two grey marks on his head but was otherwise white, the female had one grey mark on her head the rest was pure white. I named them Mark (male) and Dot (female) the third kitten, also female, was long-haired, fully grey with the exception of a very small white bib. I named her Puffy.

The cute story ends there. My income source wouldn't allow for me to keep four cats, as much as I would've loved to. So I did a Google search for rescue places in Hamilton and came across one that had '******' in it's name. Seemed perfect. I contacted them and said I would like to have the two kittens adopted out if they were capable of doing so. A few days after their 8 week 'birthday' the woman came to collect the 2 kittens and offered to have Princess and Puffy to get their needles as well. Since I had asked repeatedly for the cost of this prior (to which she never replied) nor had she mentioned any cost when she picked them up I made the incorrect assumption that the rescue would be paying for it.

So she picked up all of my cats, promising to return Princess and Puffy the very next day. The very next day I get a Facebook message saying the cats had fleas and she wasn't going to give them back until I could prove to her I had had my apartment fumigated. She also added that the Vet cost for the needles was $50 per cat. Since I'm on a very limited income I offered what I could at the time, a 50/50 split, the first half to be paid then and there. The second half to be paid at the end of September. She refused this, still saying the apartment had to be fumigated. Since I live in a multi-unit dwelling, I'm not allowed to do anything like that. The Landlord at the very least must give permission, or more to the point the landlord would be the one responsible for doing it.

This left me no choice but to contact a legal clinic, who in turn asked me to call the Hamilton-Burlington SPCA. After speaking with 2 people there who told me in no uncertain terms that she could not withhold my cats for fleas, they advised I contact the Hamilton-Wentworth Police. So I did and opened a Theft report, but they weren't very willing to do anything except speak to the person. They considered it more of a civil matter. Nevertheless an officer went to speak with her, at which point she said she was withholding the cats over the money, not fleas. He suggested I come to a compromise with her about the money. I tried again, explaining to her my source of income and told her that I could pay in two installments. Once again she refused.

Skip ahead a couple of days and she has now said that if I don't pay her the $100 she is going to put my cats up for adoption on Sept 14th. This of course causes me to freak out. So after a bunch of phone calls, I end up pawning my TV so I could get the money I was short. So then when I tell her I have the money, she decides that I now owe her boarding costs of $10 a day as well. Saying that she's had my cats for almost a month. She's had them for 12 days and not by my choice either... I haven't left them there, she's refusing to give them to me. So then I get a letter offering a compromise, she's found a home to adopt Puffy into. Therefore I only have to pay for Princess' vet bills. This is of course unacceptable to me, they are both my pets and I want both of them back

The poor police officer has been out to see her 2 or 3 times now. Each time he sees her he tells her she has no right to hold the animals because of fleas OR money. However, he still also won't arrest her because I gave her my cats willingly in the first place. Apparently it doesn't matter the circumstances or what happened afterwards.

I've tried contacting her twice now, saying I have the $100 but the new line I'm getting is, and I quote "One of the rules that all rescues go by is that no un-spayed cat is returned to the owner." She knows full well that she caused Princess to miss her spay appointment with the HBSPCA's geared-to-income Spay-Neuter clinic.

Am I nuts to think something isn't right here? All the flea stuff I read said it wasn't safe for a pregnant cat and shouldn't be used on a kitten until it was 12 weeks old. I've purchased something called Diacemaceous Earth, a natural pest killer powder. Harmless to people and animals.
If she had informed me of the costs beforehand for the vet stuff, I could've found another way to get it done, or at least had one cat done at a time. I'm at a loss here, I don't know what to do. I want my pets back, but this lady seems to be going out of her way to stop me each time. I say I have the $100, she wants $125. If I came up with the $125 I get the feeling she'd find another reason to raise the price.

Anyone have any thoughts? I'm running out of time. The officer on the case isn't back at work until the 14th, and I really don't trust this woman with my cats. HELP!

sugarcatmom
September 12th, 2012, 08:04 PM
OMG what a nightmare for you! I have no idea what you should do but I'll see if I can find someone who might be able to give you advice. Hang tight! You clearly love cats and have a big heart....you shouldn't be punished like this by someone so nasty.

Barkingdog
September 12th, 2012, 08:53 PM
I'm unsure if there is where this post is to go, this seemed the most likely but if I'm wrong feel free to move it to the correct category.

I'm having an issue with a cat rescue in Hamilton, ON. But first I'll give you the details on the cats.

I feed the feral cats in my neighbourhood, nothing special just some dry food so they don't starve. There was one fellow... he would come by everyday and he was such a friendly guy. He came as much for the attention and pats than for the food alone. One day he brought a friend with him, a very cute yet painfully shy female. When I noticed she was pregnant, I slowly over a week coaxed her inside the house and put her on a diet of wet and dry food. She settled in nicely, to the point if I opened the front door, she'd run the other way. :) Since she had decided she was going to live with me, I chose to name her Princess. She'd follow me everywhere and loved to be pampered. On June 24th at 3am she gave birth to her litter of 3 kittens. 2 females and 1 male. The male and one female were close to being identical twins. The male had two grey marks on his head but was otherwise white, the female had one grey mark on her head the rest was pure white. I named them Mark (male) and Dot (female) the third kitten, also female, was long-haired, fully grey with the exception of a very small white bib. I named her Puffy.

The cute story ends there. My income source wouldn't allow for me to keep four cats, as much as I would've loved to. So I did a Google search for rescue places in Hamilton and came across one that had '******' in it's name. Seemed perfect. I contacted them and said I would like to have the two kittens adopted out if they were capable of doing so. A few days after their 8 week 'birthday' the woman came to collect the 2 kittens and offered to have Princess and Puffy to get their needles as well. Since I had asked repeatedly for the cost of this prior (to which she never replied) nor had she mentioned any cost when she picked them up I made the incorrect assumption that the rescue would be paying for it.

So she picked up all of my cats, promising to return Princess and Puffy the very next day. The very next day I get a Facebook message saying the cats had fleas and she wasn't going to give them back until I could prove to her I had had my apartment fumigated. She also added that the Vet cost for the needles was $50 per cat. Since I'm on a very limited income I offered what I could at the time, a 50/50 split, the first half to be paid then and there. The second half to be paid at the end of September. She refused this, still saying the apartment had to be fumigated. Since I live in a multi-unit dwelling, I'm not allowed to do anything like that. The Landlord at the very least must give permission, or more to the point the landlord would be the one responsible for doing it.

This left me no choice but to contact a legal clinic, who in turn asked me to call the Hamilton-Burlington SPCA. After speaking with 2 people there who told me in no uncertain terms that she could not withhold my cats for fleas, they advised I contact the Hamilton-Wentworth Police. So I did and opened a Theft report, but they weren't very willing to do anything except speak to the person. They considered it more of a civil matter. Nevertheless an officer went to speak with her, at which point she said she was withholding the cats over the money, not fleas. He suggested I come to a compromise with her about the money. I tried again, explaining to her my source of income and told her that I could pay in two installments. Once again she refused.

Skip ahead a couple of days and she has now said that if I don't pay her the $100 she is going to put my cats up for adoption on Sept 14th. This of course causes me to freak out. So after a bunch of phone calls, I end up pawning my TV so I could get the money I was short. So then when I tell her I have the money, she decides that I now owe her boarding costs of $10 a day as well. Saying that she's had my cats for almost a month. She's had them for 12 days and not by my choice either... I haven't left them there, she's refusing to give them to me. So then I get a letter offering a compromise, she's found a home to adopt Puffy into. Therefore I only have to pay for Princess' vet bills. This is of course unacceptable to me, they are both my pets and I want both of them back

The poor police officer has been out to see her 2 or 3 times now. Each time he sees her he tells her she has no right to hold the animals because of fleas OR money. However, he still also won't arrest her because I gave her my cats willingly in the first place. Apparently it doesn't matter the circumstances or what happened afterwards.

I've tried contacting her twice now, saying I have the $100 but the new line I'm getting is, and I quote "One of the rules that all rescues go by is that no un-spayed cat is returned to the owner." She knows full well that she caused Princess to miss her spay appointment with the HBSPCA's geared-to-income Spay-Neuter clinic.

Am I nuts to think something isn't right here? All the flea stuff I read said it wasn't safe for a pregnant cat and shouldn't be used on a kitten until it was 12 weeks old. I've purchased something called Diacemaceous Earth, a natural pest killer powder. Harmless to people and animals.
If she had informed me of the costs beforehand for the vet stuff, I could've found another way to get it done, or at least had one cat done at a time. I'm at a loss here, I don't know what to do. I want my pets back, but this lady seems to be going out of her way to stop me each time. I say I have the $100, she wants $125. If I came up with the $125 I get the feeling she'd find another reason to raise the price.

Anyone have any thoughts? I'm running out of time. The officer on the case isn't back at work until the 14th, and I really don't trust this woman with my cats. HELP!
Have you seen any fleas in your apartment , if you did have fleas you would have fleas bites too. Did you get anything in writing that said you would have to pay for the shots and boarding of the kittens? I think the lady has a weak case if she did not give you anything in writing and if you did not sign any agreement. I would try to do some investigation on the cat rescue club, they sound really shady to me. Do you have a Humane Society near you that you could call and see if they can giver you any advise ? If I where I would take a ride to the cat rescue club and bring a friend and a camera . I am really suspicious to why you where not told to bring the kittens there yourself as you already had them in your house for awhile.
Something does not feel right. I reread your post and saw you had called a Humane Society.

Dakkar
September 12th, 2012, 10:24 PM
Have you seen any fleas in your apartment , if you did have fleas you would have fleas bites too. Did you get anything in writing that said you would have to pay for the shots and boarding of the kittens? I think the lady has a weak case if she did not give you anything in writing and if you did not sign any agreement. I would try to do some investigation on the cat rescue club, they sound really shady to me. Do you have a Humane Society near you that you could call and see if they can giver you any advise ? If I where I would take a ride to the cat rescue club and bring a friend and a camera . I am really suspicious to why you where not told to bring the kittens there yourself as you already had them in your house for awhile.
Something does not feel right. I reread your post and saw you had called a Humane Society.

I would say the day or so before she had come for the kittens, I noticed a few fleas. A couple on the Mom (which I caught and squished) and one on Dot (female white kitten). It escaped my wrath. I haven't seen many fleas in my apartment, yet I do have some bites on my ankles and feet. Nothing in too great a number, seeing as how I've been the only blood for them in the past 2 weeks I'm assuming an infestation would have eaten me alive by now. :) My floors are all either laminate flooring or ceramic tile, so they don't have many places to hide.

I did buy some Diacemaceous Earth, an all natural; safe for people and animals; pest killer. It's basically fossilized fresh water organisms that contain silica and on a microscopic level are very sharp. It kills by getting onto the pest (any bug with an exoskeleton) and forcing it's way in their bodies. At which point the pest dehydrates to death. Sorry, I figured I'd explain it in case anyone ends up here by accident looking for flea solutions. And if there are, you want the food grade variant. A medium container cost me $27, and if you're in Hamilton and want to know where to buy it, you can PM me.

To get back on track, No she didn't provide anything in writing. I didn't sign anything. I didn't even know there was anything I needed to agree to, so as far as a verbal contract all I have is her saying she would return them the next day.

Yeah, it looks like I'm going to have no choice but to show up at this woman's house (where she runs the [rescue] from) with a friend, a camera, and probably a phone call to the police. Hopefully tomorrow will be emergency free in Hamilton. Regardless of how this all went down, she is a fairly older lady and I don't want to appear to present some sort of threat to her. I just want my kitties back and to never hear from her again. It appears I may have been 'victim' to one of those people that do this as a hobby and are not actually proper 'rescue shelters'.

Barkingdog
September 12th, 2012, 11:58 PM
I would say the day or so before she had come for the kittens, I noticed a few fleas. A couple on the Mom (which I caught and squished) and one on Dot (female white kitten). It escaped my wrath. I haven't seen many fleas in my apartment, yet I do have some bites on my ankles and feet. Nothing in too great a number, seeing as how I've been the only blood for them in the past 2 weeks I'm assuming an infestation would have eaten me alive by now. :) My floors are all either laminate flooring or ceramic tile, so they don't have many places to hide.

I did buy some Diacemaceous Earth, an all natural; safe for people and animals; pest killer. It's basically fossilized fresh water organisms that contain silica and on a microscopic level are very sharp. It kills by getting onto the pest (any bug with an exoskeleton) and forcing it's way in their bodies. At which point the pest dehydrates to death. Sorry, I figured I'd explain it in case anyone ends up here by accident looking for flea solutions. And if there are, you want the food grade variant. A medium container cost me $27, and if you're in Hamilton and want to know where to buy it, you can PM me.

To get back on track, No she didn't provide anything in writing. I didn't sign anything. I didn't even know there was anything I needed to agree to, so as far as a verbal contract all I have is her saying she would return them the next day.

Yeah, it looks like I'm going to have no choice but to show up at this woman's house (where she runs the [rescue] from) with a friend, a camera, and probably a phone call to the police. Hopefully tomorrow will be emergency free in Hamilton. Regardless of how this all went down, she is a fairly older lady and I don't want to appear to present some sort of threat to her. I just want my kitties back and to never hear from her again. It appears I may have been 'victim' to one of those people that do this as a hobby and are not actually proper 'rescue shelters'.

The woman could be a hoarder, I would try to talk to the polices and see if they had any complains about the woman. It sounds like she is running some kind of scam. I wonder if she will take your money and not give your cats back to you. I would think you need some kind of license to have a shelter for animals. You could check this out with the city hall and see if the woman has a license. If she does not you could have a case against her. Good luck and I hope you can nail this woman. Your kittens much be missing you like crazy.

Koteburo
September 13th, 2012, 12:14 AM
The woman could be a hoarder, I would try to talk to the polices and see if they had any complains about the woman. It sounds like she is running some kind of scam. I wonder if she will take your money and not give your cats back to you. I would think you need some kind of license to have a shelter for animals. You could check this out with the city hall and see if the woman has a license. If she does not you could have a case against her. Good luck and I hope you can nail this woman. Your kittens much be missing you like crazy.

Good idea to call. I wonder the same about the money too. Maybe if you pay she'll just poof along with the cats! This is so mortifying. I have the impression of something shady going on, or out of place.
So you're being punished for giving those kitties a hand. That is awful. Now I'm worried about where the other 2 little guys are going since it all seems so weird.
In good faith you got in touch with a rescue and this happened.

14+kitties
September 13th, 2012, 12:37 AM
I am staying out of this story as I am aware of the [rescue] the OP is speaking of and know individuals working with them. I've heard nothing but good. Hard to remain neutral.

However, the repeated push of Diatomaceous Earth is bothering me. I urge anyone wanting to use this product to ensure you have the food grade earth. Any other mix is deadly to cats/dogs. It is a good product and has been used by humans as well as for pets but please educate yourself on it before using.

scottyxx
September 13th, 2012, 02:52 AM
This sounds absolutely terrible, if someone stole my cats I wouldn't know what to do with my self, this is absolutely disgusting behavior from any human being! I really don't know what you can do to try and get them back, and it hurts to feel so helpless.

I really wish you all the luck in the world to get your little guys back, lets hope its all just some weird misunderstanding!

Love4himies
September 13th, 2012, 08:03 AM
There are always two sides to every story, we are only hearing one.

If the rescue didn't specifically say they were going to pay for vaccinations, it should have been assumed that they wouldn't.

I can't imagine a rescue holding onto to cats that could be returned to a wonderful home as they are always so full and there are so many cats in need. Also, I have 110% trust in 14+kitties opinion on a cat rescue in her area.

My advice to the OP is to ask Legal Aid if they will write a letter on your behalf and send it registered to the rescue with a request that they respond by a certain date. That way if you have to go to court you have something in writing.

BenMax
September 13th, 2012, 08:05 AM
Dakkar this story is very disheartening. Being involved with several rescues myself, I have never heard of anything like this before.
I would like to know what rescue this is. Though I am primarily with dog rescues, the rescue world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I can get a hold of my contacts to find out more about the rescue and their policy. The only thing that I am relying on at this point is the fact that 14+K knows who they are and I highly doubt she would affiliate herself with an unethical rescue. That being said however, holding the cats for money is D-I-R-T-Y and I don't care if the rescue is reputable - that in my opinion is deplorable.
So the cats had fleas. Big deal. There are products that can be used (and I have used it myself) that kill fleas in the home. They could have at the very least advised you what products to use. That would be a sign of good faith right there. Also, charging $50.00 per cat for vaccinations ONLY is high. That does not sound like the rescue rate. I am assuming the cats were not sterlized for this cost? If they were then $50.00 per cat is very low and I can see them asking for the expenses incurred by the rescue. BUT what is really WRONG is them charging boarding! That to me not right at all.
I have an idea as to what has happened here and please excuse my directness. As you are on a limited income I think they feel that perhaps you may not be able to financially carry the costs of having two cats. I think they are looking long term. If this is where they are going with this, then they should tell you how they feel about it. That does not make this right however. In my opinion, everyone regardless of financial status has the right to have an animal to love and care for if they are qualified and committed to do so.
Another thing is bothering me. Where is their surrender contract??? Every rescue has one as it is proof that they took the cats with the consent of the owner or person in care. It is not a legal contract but if matters should go to court for whatever reason, then this is evidence of intent.
The police are correct. This is a civil matter. I am afraid the only way to get these cats back my be through the system, that being a lawyers letter and so on.
My other thought on this matter is that there is two sides to the story (which there always is). If I were you I would ask them bluntly the REAL reason why they feel the need to do this.
If there is anyway that you can tell me (by PM) who this rescue is, I can find out at the very least if they are reputable or not or if there is some background or other experiences regarding the group. If I have an inside contact with this group, then I can do some poking and at the very least find out why this happened. If I do not have a contact, then I am out of luck. If there is something fishy about them, I can get the word out about your experience.
There a good people in this world that truly care for the welfare of animals. You seem to be one of them. In the end you have saved lives and perhaps sacrificed your own joys of watching them flourish. If that is the case, then please do not stop caring for the unwanted. Your intent was human, your actions as well. Their is a light at the end of this, and it just may come back to you in another way.
Sorry this happened to you.

BenMax
September 13th, 2012, 08:18 AM
There are always two sides to every story, we are only hearing one.

If the rescue didn't specifically say they were going to pay for vaccinations, it should have been assumed that they wouldn't.

I can't imagine a rescue holding onto to cats that could be returned to a wonderful home as they are always so full and there are so many cats in need. Also, I have 110% trust in 14+kitties opinion on a cat rescue in her area.

My advice to the OP is to ask Legal Aid if they will write a letter on your behalf and send it registered to the rescue with a request that they respond by a certain date. That way if you have to go to court you have something in writing.

We are on the same page L4H it seems. However, the tactic that is used in this by withholding an animal and charging boarding is terrible.
Whatever the rescues reason is (based on the other side of the story); honesty is the best policy. If they do not want to return the animals, then they should clearly say why. Truth hurts but at the same time, everyone should hear the truth.
Also, a reputable rescue would NEVER return unsterlized cats. So if the cats were not sterlized for this $50.00, then that would be the third excuse as to why they will not give her back the 2 others because if she cannot afford the $50.00 each and the boarding and the sterlization costs, then it is making it impossible for her to get them back period.
Also, where is that surrender contract?
I am very PRO rescue. Always have been and always will be. What bothers me terribly is that some rescues are so anti people that no animal has a chance at a home. Nothing will be perfect enough. I am seeing this more and more which is doing no service to the animals.
I am inclined to think that there is another side to the story, and it would be great to find out what that is.

Love4himies
September 13th, 2012, 08:57 AM
We are on the same page L4H it seems. However, the tactic that is used in this by withholding an animal and charging boarding is terrible.
Whatever the rescues reason is (based on the other side of the story); honesty is the best policy. If they do not want to return the animals, then they should clearly say why. Truth hurts but at the same time, everyone should hear the truth.
Also, a reputable rescue would NEVER return unsterlized cats. So if the cats were not sterlized for this $50.00, then that would be the third excuse as to why they will not give her back the 2 others because if she cannot afford the $50.00 each and the boarding and the sterlization costs, then it is making it impossible for her to get them back period.
Also, where is that surrender contract?
I am very PRO rescue. Always have been and always will be. What bothers me terribly is that some rescues are so anti people that no animal has a chance at a home. Nothing will be perfect enough. I am seeing this more and more which is doing no service to the animals.
I am inclined to think that there is another side to the story, and it would be great to find out what that is.

I so agree and that is why I feel there needs to be a written request done by a lawyer with a deadline for the rescue to respond in writing.

I was also wondering about a surrender contract, but if the OP was expecting to get the cats back, except for the two kittens, perhaps there wasn't one.

I am neither for or against the OP to get the cats back as I don't know the rescue's side.

BenMax
September 13th, 2012, 09:05 AM
I so agree and that is why I feel there needs to be a written request done by a lawyer with a deadline for the rescue to respond in writing.

I was also wondering about a surrender contract, but if the OP was expecting to get the cats back, except for the two kittens, perhaps there wasn't one.

I am neither for or against the OP to get the cats back as I don't know the rescue's side.

There should have been a surrender form at the very least for the two other kittens.

Something does not compute though. Why is the rescue making it difficult to get the cats back? Are they worried that they will not get the remainder of the money? Is it about money or is it about something else.

Blunt but to the point:
Did the person who picked up the cats see something in the home that made it unsafe or was living conditions not up to par? (meaning messy, disjointed?).
Was there something that was said that made the rescue feel that the animals would not be well cared for?
Was there rude communication?

My thoughts are this: there are so many cats in the system. Why would the rescue not want to give the cats back as it would leave them room to place two others?

Something is wrong somewhere, but whatever the reason, someone needs to speak with the OP and say why they feel the need to keep these cats. I think if the OP knows why, then perhaps she will understand.

Love4himies
September 13th, 2012, 09:20 AM
There should have been a surrender form at the very least for the two other kittens.

Something does not compute though. Why is the rescue making it difficult to get the cats back? Are they worried that they will not get the remainder of the money? Is it about money or is it about something else.

Blunt but to the point:
Did the person who picked up the cats see something in the home that made it unsafe or was living conditions not up to par? (meaning messy, disjointed?).
Was there something that was said that made the rescue feel that the animals would not be well cared for?
Was there rude communication?

My thoughts are this: there are so many cats in the system. Why would the rescue not want to give the cats back as it would leave them room to place two others?

Something is wrong somewhere, but whatever the reason, someone needs to speak with the OP and say why they feel the need to keep these cats. I think if the OP knows why, then perhaps she will understand.

:thumbs up

It's not a great deal of money and I can't imagine with so many cats waiting to get into rescue that this rescue would have to resort to stealing cats. On the other hand, it could be as you stated earlier that the rescue is being so overly controlling about what is acceptable living conditions for pets.

BenMax
September 13th, 2012, 09:39 AM
:thumbs up

It's not a great deal of money and I can't imagine with so many cats waiting to get into rescue that this rescue would have to resort to stealing cats. On the other hand, it could be as you stated earlier that the rescue is being so overly controlling about what is acceptable living conditions for pets.

Technically the rescue did not steal the cats. The cats were handed over. As there is no paperwork with intent, then it's hear-say on what was agreed on.

If the OP could not afford the 50.00$ each and if the sterlization was still outstanding, then getting these cats back will be very difficult financially. Maybe just adopting them back at the rescue rate will be cheaper than actually having to pay the vaccinations, sterlization and boarding fee. The cost of all this (minus the boarding) usually does not cover the complete adoption fee as it stands.

Barkingdog
September 13th, 2012, 12:15 PM
Dakkar this story is very disheartening. Being involved with several rescues myself, I have never heard of anything like this before.
I would like to know what rescue this is. Though I am primarily with dog rescues, the rescue world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I can get a hold of my contacts to find out more about the rescue and their policy. The only thing that I am relying on at this point is the fact that 14+K knows who they are and I highly doubt she would affiliate herself with an unethical rescue. That being said however, holding the cats for money is D-I-R-T-Y and I don't care if the rescue is reputable - that in my opinion is deplorable.
So the cats had fleas. Big deal. There are products that can be used (and I have used it myself) that kill fleas in the home. They could have at the very least advised you what products to use. That would be a sign of good faith right there. Also, charging $50.00 per cat for vaccinations ONLY is high. That does not sound like the rescue rate. I am assuming the cats were not sterlized for this cost? If they were then $50.00 per cat is very low and I can see them asking for the expenses incurred by the rescue. BUT what is really WRONG is them charging boarding! That to me not right at all.
I have an idea as to what has happened here and please excuse my directness. As you are on a limited income I think they feel that perhaps you may not be able to financially carry the costs of having two cats. I think they are looking long term. If this is where they are going with this, then they should tell you how they feel about it. That does not make this right however. In my opinion, everyone regardless of financial status has the right to have an animal to love and care for if they are qualified and committed to do so.
Another thing is bothering me. Where is their surrender contract??? Every rescue has one as it is proof that they took the cats with the consent of the owner or person in care. It is not a legal contract but if matters should go to court for whatever reason, then this is evidence of intent.
The police are correct. This is a civil matter. I am afraid the only way to get these cats back my be through the system, that being a lawyers letter and so on.
My other thought on this matter is that there is two sides to the story (which there always is). If I were you I would ask them bluntly the REAL reason why they feel the need to do this.
If there is anyway that you can tell me (by PM) who this rescue is, I can find out at the very least if they are reputable or not or if there is some background or other experiences regarding the group. If I have an inside contact with this group, then I can do some poking and at the very least find out why this happened. If I do not have a contact, then I am out of luck. If there is something fishy about them, I can get the word out about your experience.
There a good people in this world that truly care for the welfare of animals. You seem to be one of them. In the end you have saved lives and perhaps sacrificed your own joys of watching them flourish. If that is the case, then please do not stop caring for the unwanted. Your intent was human, your actions as well. Their is a light at the end of this, and it just may come back to you in another way.
Sorry this happened to you.
This is my biggest concern too, the OP did not sign any surrender contract,.
Every shelter has a pet owner sign one when giving their pet up. I feel the OP was mislead by the rescue shelter and you you may be right about the woman making a judgement on the OP not being a 'fix parent' to the kittens.
I think there so very fishy about the whole too, and I hope the OP will PM you so you can do some poking . I have to get use to saying ' poking' as I call it investigating. I am very suspicious about the cats being held for ransom, I feel that is what it is. I think this is a very sad thing but it should be a reminder to pet owners to be sure to get something in writing when leaving your pet(s) at shelter for any service.

Dakkar
September 13th, 2012, 03:06 PM
It seemed more reasonable to address all the concerns in one go, than reply individually since most comments have a lot in common.

In regards to paperwork for surrendering the kittens, there wasn't any. No one until now had alluded to any paperwork of any kind. So there was no surrender contract.

In regards to the household / financial situation. The person in question didn't set foot in my home. I received a phone call asking if I could have the kittens ready to go in 20 minutes to be picked up. Towards the end of that conversation I was told that Princess and Puffy could be taken to get their needles as well. That was done last minute, I was busy collecting toys that Dot and Mark played with to send with them. So I grabbed the cat carrier from outside, tossed a t-shirt in (so they could have me scent to help keep them calm), put Princess and Puffy in and off they went. This all happened on my porch.
My financial stance was, and still is, that I wouldn't be able to afford 4 cats. If I could have, I would have. I like all animals but I have a preference for cats, which being a guy, I'm sure seems pretty odd. Guess that makes me odd, I'm okay with that. However, given the size of my apartment and that a cat should have approx 6 sq. ft. to claim as their own, my finances and apartment could afford 2 cats.
My original reason for contacting a rescue was to have Dot and Mark adopted. I didn't want to put them in the paper because you just have no way of knowing if they'll end up being tossed out on the street when they're no longer "cute kittens". I didn't want to use the SPCA because if they were unable to adopt them, they'd be euthanised. My thoughts have always been that if someone is willing to pay an adoption fee, which seems to average around the $100 mark, then they'd be more likely to be the responsible type that would truly provide a "forever home".

As for the reason she said she wasn't returning them... Then the original reason she gave me would have to stand. Fleas. No one ever inquired if I had flea control products prior to them being picked up. I did, but the package said I couldn't use it until the kittens were 12 weeks old, and that it shouldn't be used on a pregnant or nursing cat. So I didn't. I also warned the person before pickup that fleas were present. Fumigation I'd covered in the first post.

Towards sterilization, I was told that by this [rescue] they did not provide sterilization. I was directed to the HBSPCA who run a geared-to-income spay-neuter clinic. Princess has already been accepted, but was unable to attend an appointment because she was not in my care. Puffy is too young to be spayed, but she too is in the program. They will provide the spay, a microchip, and a rabies vaccination (unless the pet has had it already) at a cost geared to income. For me, I was quoted $55+hst. This is in no way meant to represent the cost for anyone other than myself. Knowing that the [rescue] does not provide sterilization and that it is left up to the pet owner to get it done... makes that argument invalid. Especially considering Puffy was only 8 weeks old and not even spay-able. So in answer, the $50 (per cat) was for needles to the best of my knowledge.

Most of my correspondence with the person in question has been through emails and facebook. I'm still wondering why facebook is being used so much, but hey ho. I have, and always will, remain civil. I've read the guidelines for the forum and I'm going out of my way to not slander or malign. I cannot post our correspondence here, because it's truly not the place for it.

My whole problem lies in the fact that the SPCA, who let's face it are the only people that have a say with any weight, said that this isn't acceptable. The police are involved in trying to resolve the matter. That should go a long way into understanding that this may not be the best move this person could be making. I just don't understand the ongoing defiance. If the threat of having them adopted wasn't hanging over my head, I'd just let those authorities take their sweet time about it. And yes, she has said she will put them up for adoption as of September 14th if she didn't get her $100, excuse me.. I mean $125 as of the last facebook message.

This whole nightmare has been an everyday thing for me from August 30th and it's still going. It aggravates my disability with all the worrying. I have no clue the conditions my cats are being kept in. For all I know they're being kept in cages and being fed dry food only. These are cats that are used to wet food in the morning for breakfast, wet food for dinner, with dry food available all day if they get peckish. They eat breakfast at 7am and dinner at 7pm. Princess has been in that habit for 3.5 months, Puffy only a couple of weeks. They have only really had each other for company, god knows how many other animals they've been forced to co-habitate with. I don't know if they're getting all the petting they want. I'm betting Princess is missing her cat brush, I used to brush her twice a day and she loves it... especially on the back of her head and of course the corners of her mouth. Puffy loved to climb up to my lap and step all over my keyboard when I was on the computer. She would chase the mouse pointer around and drive me nuts. They've both been dumped in a strange environment, the comforts they had here whether it be brushings or playing 'drive the human crazy' while walking back and forth on his keyboard, aren't there. By now, the t-shirt I'd put in that old beat up carrier will have lost my scent. The cat I rescued from living on the streets, the one whose kittens may not have survived had I not brought her in... She probably thinks I've abandoned her. Yet another person who didn't want her. That's HORRIBLE. It makes me feel like... the adult synonym for CRAP.

Oh, and as for the Diatomaceous Earth, that is correct, you want the food grade version, usually 1% or less silica.

BenMax
September 13th, 2012, 03:16 PM
Thank you for your post Dakkar. I am sorry if I may have pushed a sensitive button by bringing in finances and living conditions but it was the only thing that I could possibly think could be the issue.
You clearly loved those cats, and I feel very badly that this has happened to you.
I still want to know what rescue group this is. I have since contacted one person that can help me find out more about cat rescue groups, but I really need to know the name. Can you private message me?

I am not promising I can get answers, but I can at the very least get some help looking into the validity of this organization.

And by the way, I am very inclined to believe what you are saying. Again however, I would ask this rescue what the real reason is. Fleas is a very lame excuse.

AND the MOST concerning part about this is that they are not sterilizing cats and getting an outside source to do it. This to me is not quite right.

So please try to reach me and give me that name.
Thank you.

Love4himies
September 13th, 2012, 03:37 PM
So do you have the funds to reimburse the rescue for the vaccinations? If so, have made contact to arrange giving them their payment?

How bad were the fleas? Fleas can cause health problems, including anemia and death in kittens, so the Rescue should have been very concerned about them and they should be treated by a vet to eliminate them. There are flea treatments for young kittens, I've had my 5 week old fosters treated for them by a vet.

BenMax
September 13th, 2012, 03:41 PM
So do you have the funds to reimburse the rescue for the vaccinations? If so, have made contact to arrange giving them their payment?

How bad were the fleas? Fleas can cause health problems, including anemia and death in kittens, so the Rescue should have been very concerned about them and they should be treated by a vet to eliminate them. There are flea treatments for young kittens, I've had my 5 week old fosters treated for them by a vet.

L4H - they now want not only the 50.00 each but costs of boarding as well.
Yes fleas are an issue, but this person took the cats off the streets, gave them shelter and then asked for assistance.
To me, he has gone above and beyond and why would any rescue give someone who has done all this a hard time?

Love4himies
September 13th, 2012, 03:57 PM
L4H - they now want not only the 50.00 each but costs of boarding as well.
Yes fleas are an issue, but this person took the cats off the streets, gave them shelter and then asked for assistance.
To me, he has gone above and beyond and why would any rescue give someone who has done all this a hard time?

That's what I don't understand :shrug:. Why when rescues are so filled up and no shortage of cats waiting, would they not return these to OP???? Surely not for a measly 50 bucks a cat.

Barkingdog
September 13th, 2012, 04:54 PM
It seemed more reasonable to address all the concerns in one go, than reply individually since most comments have a lot in common.

In regards to paperwork for surrendering the kittens, there wasn't any. No one until now had alluded to any paperwork of any kind. So there was no surrender contract.

In regards to the household / financial situation. The person in question didn't set foot in my home. I received a phone call asking if I could have the kittens ready to go in 20 minutes to be picked up. Towards the end of that conversation I was told that Princess and Puffy could be taken to get their needles as well. That was done last minute, I was busy collecting toys that Dot and Mark played with to send with them. So I grabbed the cat carrier from outside, tossed a t-shirt in (so they could have me scent to help keep them calm), put Princess and Puffy in and off they went. This all happened on my porch.
My financial stance was, and still is, that I wouldn't be able to afford 4 cats. If I could have, I would have. I like all animals but I have a preference for cats, which being a guy, I'm sure seems pretty odd. Guess that makes me odd, I'm okay with that. However, given the size of my apartment and that a cat should have approx 6 sq. ft. to claim as their own, my finances and apartment could afford 2 cats.
My original reason for contacting a rescue was to have Dot and Mark adopted. I didn't want to put them in the paper because you just have no way of knowing if they'll end up being tossed out on the street when they're no longer "cute kittens". I didn't want to use the SPCA because if they were unable to adopt them, they'd be euthanised. My thoughts have always been that if someone is willing to pay an adoption fee, which seems to average around the $100 mark, then they'd be more likely to be the responsible type that would truly provide a "forever home".

As for the reason she said she wasn't returning them... Then the original reason she gave me would have to stand. Fleas. No one ever inquired if I had flea control products prior to them being picked up. I did, but the package said I couldn't use it until the kittens were 12 weeks old, and that it shouldn't be used on a pregnant or nursing cat. So I didn't. I also warned the person before pickup that fleas were present. Fumigation I'd covered in the first post.

Towards sterilization, I was told that by this [rescue] they did not provide sterilization. I was directed to the HBSPCA who run a geared-to-income spay-neuter clinic. Princess has already been accepted, but was unable to attend an appointment because she was not in my care. Puffy is too young to be spayed, but she too is in the program. They will provide the spay, a microchip, and a rabies vaccination (unless the pet has had it already) at a cost geared to income. For me, I was quoted $55+hst. This is in no way meant to represent the cost for anyone other than myself. Knowing that the [rescue] does not provide sterilization and that it is left up to the pet owner to get it done... makes that argument invalid. Especially considering Puffy was only 8 weeks old and not even spay-able. So in answer, the $50 (per cat) was for needles to the best of my knowledge.

Most of my correspondence with the person in question has been through emails and facebook. I'm still wondering why facebook is being used so much, but hey ho. I have, and always will, remain civil. I've read the guidelines for the forum and I'm going out of my way to not slander or malign. I cannot post our correspondence here, because it's truly not the place for it.

My whole problem lies in the fact that the SPCA, who let's face it are the only people that have a say with any weight, said that this isn't acceptable. The police are involved in trying to resolve the matter. That should go a long way into understanding that this may not be the best move this person could be making. I just don't understand the ongoing defiance. If the threat of having them adopted wasn't hanging over my head, I'd just let those authorities take their sweet time about it. And yes, she has said she will put them up for adoption as of September 14th if she didn't get her $100, excuse me.. I mean $125 as of the last facebook message.

This whole nightmare has been an everyday thing for me from August 30th and it's still going. It aggravates my disability with all the worrying. I have no clue the conditions my cats are being kept in. For all I know they're being kept in cages and being fed dry food only. These are cats that are used to wet food in the morning for breakfast, wet food for dinner, with dry food available all day if they get peckish. They eat breakfast at 7am and dinner at 7pm. Princess has been in that habit for 3.5 months, Puffy only a couple of weeks. They have only really had each other for company, god knows how many other animals they've been forced to co-habitate with. I don't know if they're getting all the petting they want. I'm betting Princess is missing her cat brush, I used to brush her twice a day and she loves it... especially on the back of her head and of course the corners of her mouth. Puffy loved to climb up to my lap and step all over my keyboard when I was on the computer. She would chase the mouse pointer around and drive me nuts. They've both been dumped in a strange environment, the comforts they had here whether it be brushings or playing 'drive the human crazy' while walking back and forth on his keyboard, aren't there. By now, the t-shirt I'd put in that old beat up carrier will have lost my scent. The cat I rescued from living on the streets, the one whose kittens may not have survived had I not brought her in... She probably thinks I've abandoned her. Yet another person who didn't want her. That's HORRIBLE. It makes me feel like... the adult synonym for CRAP.

Oh, and as for the Diatomaceous Earth, that is correct, you want the food grade version, usually 1% or less silica.

First I have to say "No" you're not odd for liking cats , I know guys that have cats for pets. . If your disability is noticeable I think what the rescue is putting you through is very wrong. Do you think that is one reason you're having a hard time getting your cats back? I am asking because I am thinking maybe center for independent living could help you find a lawyer.
This whole thing is so heartbreaking to hear for you and the cats and her kittens. I hope you'll find a way to get your pets back.

Dakkar
September 13th, 2012, 05:18 PM
@BenMax - It appears I do not have the ability to PM. I saw something about this when I registered, but apparently didn't give it much thought at the time. I like to be transparent in most of my dealings. I'm guessing I thought I wouldn't need to PM anyone and therefore it didn't register in my head that this could ultimately be an issue. Well, until right about now. :( That being said, I noticed that someone had posted saying they knew who I was talking about, so they may be able to PM you. I'm not sure how they know, as I tried to avoid identifying remarks. :shrug:
As for pushing buttons over finances, I wouldn't worry about it. lol. They are what they are, I try to not get upset about it.

@Love4Himies - How bad were the fleas? I guess that depends on who you ask. From living with them for their full 8 weeks and the additional month and a bit with Princess... I saw fleas but they weren't noticeable until a day or so before they left. I used the cat brush on them a fair amount and never really noticed much of a flea problem. As I stated before, I had purchased flea control for them but I was following the advice on the package. Now, I was told first that they were not being returned because of fleas. It was then upgraded to infested with fleas after I notified them I had contacted Legal Aid, the SPCA, and the police. I've been living here for 2 weeks with no cats as I've said before. If my apartment was truly infested, I think I'd know by now, being the only meal available. I have a moderate allergy to bug bites (Mosquitoes, fleas, anything that injects saliva). But, in all fairness to the claim of fleas, I picked up the Diatomaceous Earth to spread around. I cannot fumigate as it is not within my power to do so. If the kittens had been infested with fleas... as the kids on the internet say... 'Pics or it didn't happen'.
I take issue with the flea complaint because it quickly switched to a money complaint when the police officer stopped by. If fleas were truly the reason, why switch?

@(I forgot, sorry) In regards to the money. The $100 wasn't unreasonable, it was unexpected. I never had an issue with paying for the treatment. The problem occurs when I was told after the fact. After rent and bills and groceries and cat supplies and cat toys were purchased. So with what I had at that time, I offered what I could, a payment plan. I offered it twice, and if she said yes to it right now I would fulfill my obligation. No problem. No matter how much I dislike this situation or some of the people involved, the stress that is destroying my life... I would still honour that agreement. However, what I have done in an effort to get this over and done with is drag my TV to a pawn shop, got the other $50 so I can pay it all at once. When I say I have the money and would like to arrange getting my cats, the cost goes up.


I am in no way an animal rights crusader. I believe in animal rights, but I do enjoy cow for dinner. :) When I took that lovely cat from my backyard, I wasn't championing the cause of the underdog(cat). I wasn't trying to make a statement. I saw a chance to make that one cat's life better and in doing so, increase the joy in mine. Cats are one of the greatest things to grace our lives. The intelligence to leave us alone when we want their attention and the constant desire for our attention when we want to be left alone. They are better than any alarm clock on wheels that hides so you can't hit snooze... when it's breakfast, you best get out of bed if you know what's good for you.
They have so many admirable traits I could write a book. So I wasn't being a do-gooder... I did what I could for an animal that needed my help (or so I'd like to think). She proved grateful by only having a litter of three. One of which I chose to keep so Princess could have company other than mine. It broke my heart that Dot and Mark couldn't stay, but I did the best i could for them by trying to find the best way to ensure them a good home.

In retrospect, would I do this all again? Of course I would.. I'm stupid. :D Hopefully the next time I'd do some shopping around instead of picking the first one that seemed to fit what I wanted. Damn you Google! :fist:

sugarcatmom
September 13th, 2012, 05:23 PM
@BenMax - It appears I do not have the ability to PM.

Hi Dakkar,

I've sent a message to Marko (the administrator) to ask for pm privileges for you. Hopefully soon....

Dakkar
September 13th, 2012, 05:48 PM
First I have to say "No" you're not odd for liking cats , I know guys that have cats for pets. . If your disability is noticeable I think what the rescue is putting you through is very wrong. Do you think that is one reason you're having a hard time getting your cats back? I am asking because I am thinking maybe center for independent living could help you find a lawyer.
This whole thing is so heartbreaking to hear for you and the cats and her kittens. I hope you'll find a way to get your pets back.

Hmm.. I have no idea how to phrase this. lol. I was going to say I'm one of the lucky ones without a physical disorder but that is wrong to say in more ways than one. :) My disabilities are mental, but nothing scary.

I have GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder), PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder), OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder), Social Anxiety Disorder, and Depression. Basically it means that I do NOT like to leave my house. :laughing:
Princess was brought to my attention by a neighbourhood Tom. I leave dry food out for the cats that live in our area. He's a very, very friendly guy and pretty vocal when he wants patting. One day he showed up for food with Princess (unnamed at that time) in tow. She was very shy and reluctant to come near me. So the next day I picked up some cans of Friskies from the convenience store and when they made their nightly appearance I gave them each a can. A week or so later, Princess came inside my house and has never tried to leave. She became very clingy, but she was pregnant so I let her be. I used to put a pillow on my lap so she could sleep on me when I was on the computer. I cleared out my closet for her and placed down a lot of linens on the floor for her to have as a birthing space. However, when she went into labour at 3am on June 24th 2012, she chose to come into my bed. Now, I'm a nice guy and all, but I carefully took her to the place I had prepared for her. I sat with her until 8am, making sure she was comfortable. Petting her and encouraging her during the birth of her babies. (I may have also taken pictures, but don't let her know, k?)

I've just realized that this has absolutely nothing to do with your question. Sorry about that. I was going to delete it but then I realized my ramblings are a sign of my disorders. My OCD isn't a physical thing, it's a mental thing... I have thoughts that get stuck in my head like a skipping record and I tend to pay too much attention to them. The Anxiety colours things too. Something that would make someone slightly nervous, or stressed are multiplied 10 fold for me. So I obsess over the condition and treatment of my cats when they're not in my care. This stresses me out, which for me is a bad thing. It means I have to take medication more frequently than I would otherwise need to.

Grr... once again rambling. lol. So, um, no... I don't think it's something that someone would be able to notice in the physical sense. I also never mentioned to her what my specific disability is. I hope I answered your question in all that mess somewhere.

Dakkar
September 13th, 2012, 05:53 PM
Princess was brought to my attention by a neighbourhood Tom. I leave dry food out for the cats that live in our area. He's a very, very friendly guy and pretty vocal when he wants patting. One day he showed up for food with Princess (unnamed at that time) in tow. She was very shy and reluctant to come near me. So the next day I picked up some cans of Friskies from the convenience store and when they made their nightly appearance I gave them each a can. A week or so later, Princess came inside my house and has never tried to leave. She became very clingy, but she was pregnant so I let her be. I used to put a pillow on my lap so she could sleep on me when I was on the computer. I cleared out my closet for her and placed down a lot of linens on the floor for her to have as a birthing space. However, when she went into labour at 3am on June 24th 2012, she chose to come into my bed. Now, I'm a nice guy and all, but I carefully took her to the place I had prepared for her. I sat with her until 8am, making sure she was comfortable. Petting her and encouraging her during the birth of her babies. (I may have also taken pictures, but don't let her know, k?)


I just remembered why I added that. lol. I was trying to show I don't wander far from home.

dbg10
September 13th, 2012, 10:06 PM
I am just reading this now and definitely think you need help with this. I hope the police are able to help you before this person puts your 2 kitties up for adoption. Hopefully BenMax will be able to help you.. she definitely will if she can, she has a large network of rescues she deals with.

I also wonder about the facebook messages, I hope you have saved them all and can show the police the conversations. It may take that to get them working harder on this. You also should make sure you save the emails, both the ones you send and the ones you receive from this rescue group.

You also mentioned that this woman ran the rescue out of her home, 14+K and BenMax talked about a rescue group and that's why I'm wondering about this person you've been dealing with, is she definitely part of that group you first contacted?

I also wanted to ask you what happened when you contacted legal aid, because you may need a lawyer's letter to get her to stop putting them up for adoption.

I really hope you get some good news tomorrow Dakkar and I wish you the very best of luck. :thumbs up and hope you see your kitties tomorrow. :pray: :fingerscr

BenMax
September 14th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Dakkar - we all have our own mental disablility in one form or another, so I dare say that this would not be a reason for you not getting your cats back.
You know the more I think about this the more I think that this is indeed theft. No contract means they have no evidence that you surrendered the cats to them. Yes you contacted them, yes you handed them over, but under false pretense. It will boil down to he said, she said.
The other thing I find very interesting is how quickly they went to get your cats. Everywhere is so full so for a rescue to react so quickly is almost unheard of. Cats are occupying so many foster spaces that most times when rescues are contacted, there is a waiting list to get in. Out of everything said, this is what I find ...fascinating to say the least.
I am itching to find out the name of this rescue...itching. I do have a great contact that is deep in cat rescue and she knows who is who. Infact, if she is even associated with this rescue, then I will find the truth. We are good friends.:)
So I hope somehow you can guide me to the name...somehow.

Personally, I think it is horrible to treat another human being with such disregard. I am certain, if they would simply say why they feel the need to keep the cats, then you would at the very least be at peace and could perhaps move on.

Another thing I would like to add, please for the sake of your own health, do not over burdeon your mind with this incident. Being a total animal activist, I still think of the human factor. Sorry to say to all my activists collegues...but you need to take care of yourself first and foremost.

I think that your best course of action is to get legal assistance in this matter.

I am curious, what did the police tell you when they met this person?

hazelrunpack
September 14th, 2012, 10:05 AM
Dakkar, you should have PM privileges now.

scottyxx
September 14th, 2012, 10:06 AM
If you cannot get them back why don't you take this public?

This is a very cute story, and a local paper would likely be interested. You could contact them, and at least save some people the same heartache you have suffered.

You say you talked mostly though facebook, is this the womans personal page or the shelter page? If so, post your complaints / concerns right on the page for others to see.

Did you use google to find the shelter? Write a review. Basically google this place and leave a review on any review site you can.

Be careful only to state facts, and do no slander, just post what happened and what you are trying to do.

You can also put up kijiji ads, etc etc.

Some people may think this is a dirty tactic, but trying to warn other people is a good idea, I think, because if someone had told you, you would not have surrendered your kitties! It might help.

It's so sad!

On the plus side though, because all your conversations were via FB and Email this is actually a GOOD thing, as it is all date and time stamped, so it can all be entered into evidence for a civil case. So if the woman has agreed to something via email, or done anything to compromise herself, you have it there.

Dakkar
September 15th, 2012, 08:27 PM
Sorry for the delay in posting, but I had received a Facebook message on the 13th saying she had made a mistake (?) and after speaking to Joanne (I don't know one, but if it was someone from the board, then I thank you) she would be willing to return my cats.

That being said, my reply was sent late on the 14th. I'm not all that big on using Facebook. I offered my address again if she needed it, but I haven't heard back as of yet. So I'm not sure what to make of this whole thing... still.

--
@BenMax
From what I understood, she had a woman that was interested in getting 2 cats. Since Mark and Dot were siblings, you really don't need to worry about fighting for territory or alpha status, she probably thought they would be best for that particular person. Hence why she came as quick as she did, she had an appointment with that person. But as I said, that's just the way I understood it to be.

The officer didn't have much to say in regards to her as a person if that is what you mean. He said that she said it was over money and not fleas as that was what she told him. He seemed nice enough and was definitely polite to me, but he didn't really put much stock in the whole thing.

--
@Scottyxx

I'm of two minds about doing anything too harsh. While on the one hand it may help my ego, it doesn't help my cats on the other. It might also cause them to 'close up shop' and then there will be more than just my cats on the line. While I'm in no position to say what good they have done for the feline population, my story seems to be one of a kind when it comes to this particular rescue. If other people on Facebook had said "OMG, this happened to me too!" I'd be more inclined to force the issue in the public eye.

I've been tempted to contact the Hamilton Spectator, as they have done at least 2 articles regarding these people / rescue. Once again, it only serves as a warning to others and doesn't help my cats out in the long run. However, if I don't get my cats back, then I may reconsider.

The Facebook page is for the shelter. When the police wanted her address, I had to do a reverse look-up to get an address for them. It's how I know it's a residence and not a business. The rescue doesn't have an address associated with it in any of it's information. Just the one person's phone number.

Anyway, I suppose there's still time for her to actually contact me in regards to Sunday. So once again, I'll just have to wait and see.

Barkingdog
September 15th, 2012, 10:12 PM
Sorry for the delay in posting, but I had received a Facebook message on the 13th saying she had made a mistake (?) and after speaking to Joanne (I don't know one, but if it was someone from the board, then I thank you) she would be willing to return my cats.

That being said, my reply was sent late on the 14th. I'm not all that big on using Facebook. I offered my address again if she needed it, but I haven't heard back as of yet. So I'm not sure what to make of this whole thing... still.

--
@BenMax
From what I understood, she had a woman that was interested in getting 2 cats. Since Mark and Dot were siblings, you really don't need to worry about fighting for territory or alpha status, she probably thought they would be best for that particular person. Hence why she came as quick as she did, she had an appointment with that person. But as I said, that's just the way I understood it to be.

The officer didn't have much to say in regards to her as a person if that is what you mean. He said that she said it was over money and not fleas as that was what she told him. He seemed nice enough and was definitely polite to me, but he didn't really put much stock in the whole thing.

--
@Scottyxx

I'm of two minds about doing anything too harsh. While on the one hand it may help my ego, it doesn't help my cats on the other. It might also cause them to 'close up shop' and then there will be more than just my cats on the line. While I'm in no position to say what good they have done for the feline population, my story seems to be one of a kind when it comes to this particular rescue. If other people on Facebook had said "OMG, this happened to me too!" I'd be more inclined to force the issue in the public eye.

I've been tempted to contact the Hamilton Spectator, as they have done at least 2 articles regarding these people / rescue. Once again, it only serves as a warning to others and doesn't help my cats out in the long run. However, if I don't get my cats back, then I may reconsider.

The Facebook page is for the shelter. When the police wanted her address, I had to do a reverse look-up to get an address for them. It's how I know it's a residence and not a business. The rescue doesn't have an address associated with it in any of it's information. Just the one person's phone number.

Anyway, I suppose there's still time for her to actually contact me in regards to Sunday. So once again, I'll just have to wait and see.

I hope you'll get your cats back. :fingerscr

dbg10
September 15th, 2012, 11:15 PM
Sorry for the delay in posting, but I had received a Facebook message on the 13th saying she had made a mistake (?) and after speaking to Joanne (I don't know one, but if it was someone from the board, then I thank you) she would be willing to return my cats.

That being said, my reply was sent late on the 14th. I'm not all that big on using Facebook. I offered my address again if she needed it, but I haven't heard back as of yet. So I'm not sure what to make of this whole thing... still.

--
@BenMax
From what I understood, she had a woman that was interested in getting 2 cats. Since Mark and Dot were siblings, you really don't need to worry about fighting for territory or alpha status, she probably thought they would be best for that particular person. Hence why she came as quick as she did, she had an appointment with that person. But as I said, that's just the way I understood it to be.

The officer didn't have much to say in regards to her as a person if that is what you mean. He said that she said it was over money and not fleas as that was what she told him. He seemed nice enough and was definitely polite to me, but he didn't really put much stock in the whole thing.

--
@Scottyxx

I'm of two minds about doing anything too harsh. While on the one hand it may help my ego, it doesn't help my cats on the other. It might also cause them to 'close up shop' and then there will be more than just my cats on the line. While I'm in no position to say what good they have done for the feline population, my story seems to be one of a kind when it comes to this particular rescue. If other people on Facebook had said "OMG, this happened to me too!" I'd be more inclined to force the issue in the public eye.

I've been tempted to contact the Hamilton Spectator, as they have done at least 2 articles regarding these people / rescue. Once again, it only serves as a warning to others and doesn't help my cats out in the long run. However, if I don't get my cats back, then I may reconsider.

The Facebook page is for the shelter. When the police wanted her address, I had to do a reverse look-up to get an address for them. It's how I know it's a residence and not a business. The rescue doesn't have an address associated with it in any of it's information. Just the one person's phone number.

Anyway, I suppose there's still time for her to actually contact me in regards to Sunday. So once again, I'll just have to wait and see.

I am so glad you heard from her and that she said she was willing to give your cats back. I hope and pray that is the case and that you will hear from her quickly. It is possible you may not hear until Monday, because of business hours. I wonder if you have been dealing with one of the foster mom`s for kitties and this Joanne is one of the principles in the rescue group.

Please let us know what happens, we do care about you and your kitties especially because you rescued them and probably saved their lives. I also should tell you that there are many men around who have cats rather than dogs. My husband was the one who brought my oldest cat home when we already had two dogs. I now have 4 cats but that`s a story for another day.

I will keep my fingers crossed that all goes well and she returns your kitties. With the very best of luck. :goodvibes: :fingerscr :pray:

Love4himies
September 16th, 2012, 08:22 AM
I'm glad to hear you are getting your cats back. Please keep us updated.

I know of a few rescues in this area that are done from a person's home and the cats/dogs are fostered out to volunteers. So there is just one phone number and a home address.

Hopefully this rescue will take more prudent care in protecting both parties interest and have contracts written up when they take other kitties :fingerscr. I don't think it does either party any service to have misunderstandings, it causes frustration on both sides.

Was it a volunteer that picked up your cats?

BenMax
September 16th, 2012, 09:23 AM
Hi Dakkar,
Glad you will get them back, however, if things do not turn out please let me know.

Dakkar
September 16th, 2012, 09:08 PM
Well, here it is 9pm and my cats aren't back. I've left a couple messages on Facebook and sent an email. Nothing, I haven't heard back from this person since Thursday when I got the message she wanted to get the cats back to me on Sunday (today).

This has gone above and beyond insane. It's like being teased or playing monkey in the middle. I'm waiting for an email saying 'PSYCH!' like she's dangling my cats for me to take and yanking them back at the last second.

This person is not a foster home. Her name and phone number are listed as the main ones for this "rescue". In essence, she promotes herself to BE this.. place. I don't think I'm going to be able to refer to her business practice as "rescue" any more. It's gone too far to be that kind.

I understand the comments about business hours/days that someone commented about. If that was the case she could have arranged/offered me to retrieve the cats on Friday instead of Sunday. Sunday was her suggestion, not mine.

Now I'm not just upset, I'm pissed off. Who treats people like this, seriously?!

Dakkar
September 17th, 2012, 03:13 AM
Grr... So about 2mins since I started the post in here, I received an email. Apparently I had been forgotten about. Anyway, I'm going to try and send some friends there tomorrow. I'm assuming she won't have any issue with them considering my friend is like 65 and her SigOther is 71. Hopefully they'll remember why they're there. lol.
So once again, it's "stay tuned". Sigh.

Love4himies
September 17th, 2012, 06:38 AM
Will the police officer you've had contact with accompany your friends? I, personally would not release the cats to anybody but the known owner.

Did she say she was going to deliver the cats, or you were to pick them up? Have you called this person? Blocked your number then called her? Have you printed off all the FB communication to save to present to the police officer so he can perhaps add a bit or persuasion to get her to hand over the cats?

Barkingdog
September 17th, 2012, 09:21 PM
Grr... So about 2mins since I started the post in here, I received an email. Apparently I had been forgotten about. Anyway, I'm going to try and send some friends there tomorrow. I'm assuming she won't have any issue with them considering my friend is like 65 and her SigOther is 71. Hopefully they'll remember why they're there. lol.
So once again, it's "stay tuned". Sigh.

Could you get some friends to adopt the kittens for you? I am so sorry you are going through this. I feel bad for your kittens too, it is so wrong keeping them away from you. The woman is not thinking the what is best for your kittens , they belong home with you.

Dakkar
September 18th, 2012, 11:21 AM
:grouphug:

Well, my friend picked up my kitties for me last night and they've finally come back home. It was just after 9pm, but I caved and gave them their 6p wet food dinner. (Princess seemed pretty skinny.) I have never seen those cats eat like that before... You'd think they just came off a fast or something. But after they had full bellies they calmed down a bit.
Princess is being very clingy again, but that's okay by me. I think we had a marathon pat/hug/brush session after she'd eaten. It was just over an hour before I had to try and spend some time with Puffy. Not that it stopped Princess from hovering.
Puffy's gotten bigger! Not a lot, but noticeable. She's not as clingy as Princess but was definitely in the playing mood. We had a good 20 mins of chase the red dot (laser cat toy) and about 15 mins of mouse on a string. Eventually my arm got sore and she decided it was time to play catch up on her climbing games. Which was fine by me... my arm was sore. :)

They've both just had breakfast... They ate that late as well but that's my fault. I managed to get some sleep last night, almost 10 hours. I guess my body is trying to recover from the last 2 weeks. I was awoken by Puffy trying to stand on the back of my head and Princess head-butting me. Now they're off taking their "I just ate" nap.

Something peculiar is still going on though. Puffy is STILL nursing off Princess and she's allowing it. Not nursing like when she was a baby, but more like it's dessert if you know what I mean. Puffy is 9 weeks old now, should she still be doing this? After playing last night and today, I know that she has her full set of teeth... so I know this cannot be comfortable for Princess, yet she just lays there and does it anyway.

Everything seems to be sorted out now. I'm just short the Vet bill that cost me the $100, but I was told I would get that later in the week. Which is fine I guess, Princess is slated for Spaying at the HBSPCA at the beginning of October, so that leaves plenty of time. I'm going to have to find out what flea drops were used on them and the date... I have Frontline Plus here, but I can't apply it 'til the other has worn off.

TL;DR - we're all calm now everyone is home. Thanks everyone for the advice.

Love4himies
September 18th, 2012, 11:37 AM
I'm glad you got your cats back.

Let Puffy nurse until Princess decides it's time. All my fosters nursed until they were about 12 weeks old, not full time nursing, more of a soothing thing before nap times. Momma will let Puffy know she's had enough.

Were there any problems with picking up the kitties?

sugarcatmom
September 18th, 2012, 12:23 PM
:grouphug:

Well, my friend picked up my kitties for me last night and they've finally come back home.

Woohoooooo!!!!!!!!!! :highfive:

Puffy is STILL nursing off Princess and she's allowing it. Not nursing like when she was a baby, but more like it's dessert if you know what I mean. Puffy is 9 weeks old now, should she still be doing this?

Totally normal and probably more of a bonding thing than a source of nourishment. My Cinnamon Girl would let Carrot and Peppercorn, the 2 boys I kept from her litter of 5, nurse for months, probably even past 4-5 months. She wasn't producing any milk, they just liked the whole ritual (and it was often after they ate, so kinda like dessert as you said, or preparation for a post-meal group nap). Gotta say, it was pretty hilarious to see 2 big boys (bigger than her by this time), lined up at the "wet bar" like that. I think I even have a picture somewhere, if I can find it....

we're all calm now everyone is home.

So very happy for you and the kitties. Enjoy them! :goodvibes:

hazelrunpack
September 18th, 2012, 12:29 PM
So glad you finally got them back!! whoot whoot!!

BenMax
September 18th, 2012, 04:45 PM
Dakkar, I am very happy you got your cats back.
Embrace them and love them to pieces. They are very lucky to have someone that fought so hard to get them.

tezster
September 18th, 2012, 06:23 PM
Let Puffy nurse until Princess decides it's time. All my fosters nursed until they were about 12 weeks old, not full time nursing, more of a soothing thing before nap times. Momma will let Puffy know she's had enough.

Does a mother cat's milk contain some kind of natural sedative? I've noticed that it's instant nap time for my kittens after a nursing session.

Love4himies
September 18th, 2012, 06:48 PM
Does a mother cat's milk contain some kind of natural sedative? I've noticed that it's instant nap time for my kittens after a nursing session.

It's just soothing for the kittens. One of my foster kittens was nursing before nap time until she was put up for adoption at 5.5 months. Sweet Pea had long dried up, but her last kitten just loved to suckle and Sweet Pea being the wonderful momma she was allowed the kitten to. :lovestruck:

Barkingdog
September 18th, 2012, 07:54 PM
:grouphug:

Well, my friend picked up my kitties for me last night and they've finally come back home. It was just after 9pm, but I caved and gave them their 6p wet food dinner. (Princess seemed pretty skinny.) I have never seen those cats eat like that before... You'd think they just came off a fast or something. But after they had full bellies they calmed down a bit.
Princess is being very clingy again, but that's okay by me. I think we had a marathon pat/hug/brush session after she'd eaten. It was just over an hour before I had to try and spend some time with Puffy. Not that it stopped Princess from hovering.
Puffy's gotten bigger! Not a lot, but noticeable. She's not as clingy as Princess but was definitely in the playing mood. We had a good 20 mins of chase the red dot (laser cat toy) and about 15 mins of mouse on a string. Eventually my arm got sore and she decided it was time to play catch up on her climbing games. Which was fine by me... my arm was sore. :)

They've both just had breakfast... They ate that late as well but that's my fault. I managed to get some sleep last night, almost 10 hours. I guess my body is trying to recover from the last 2 weeks. I was awoken by Puffy trying to stand on the back of my head and Princess head-butting me. Now they're off taking their "I just ate" nap.

Something peculiar is still going on though. Puffy is STILL nursing off Princess and she's allowing it. Not nursing like when she was a baby, but more like it's dessert if you know what I mean. Puffy is 9 weeks old now, should she still be doing this? After playing last night and today, I know that she has her full set of teeth... so I know this cannot be comfortable for Princess, yet she just lays there and does it anyway.

Everything seems to be sorted out now. I'm just short the Vet bill that cost me the $100, but I was told I would get that later in the week. Which is fine I guess, Princess is slated for Spaying at the HBSPCA at the beginning of October, so that leaves plenty of time. I'm going to have to find out what flea drops were used on them and the date... I have Frontline Plus here, but I can't apply it 'til the other has worn off.

TL;DR - we're all calm now everyone is home. Thanks everyone for the advice.

What great news!! I am so happy for you and your kittens. Princess may had missed you so much she that she did not eat very good. I had a dog that would let my kitten that had teeth dry nurse on her. The kitten would fall asleep next to my dog.

Koteburo
September 19th, 2012, 05:37 PM
These are great news! I'm so happy for you. They are in the right place and very loved seems to me.
Perhaps the whole thing has been nothing but a series of misunderstandings, forgetting things and so on. But that's behind now. I hope the other 2 babies went to a great place too. They probably did.
Enjoy each other! And gratz on having your little family back ♥!

dbg10
September 21st, 2012, 04:50 PM
:grouphug:

Well, my friend picked up my kitties for me last night and they've finally come back home. It was just after 9pm, but I caved and gave them their 6p wet food dinner. (Princess seemed pretty skinny.) I have never seen those cats eat like that before... You'd think they just came off a fast or something. But after they had full bellies they calmed down a bit.
Princess is being very clingy again, but that's okay by me. I think we had a marathon pat/hug/brush session after she'd eaten. It was just over an hour before I had to try and spend some time with Puffy. Not that it stopped Princess from hovering.
Puffy's gotten bigger! Not a lot, but noticeable. She's not as clingy as Princess but was definitely in the playing mood. We had a good 20 mins of chase the red dot (laser cat toy) and about 15 mins of mouse on a string. Eventually my arm got sore and she decided it was time to play catch up on her climbing games. Which was fine by me... my arm was sore. :)

They've both just had breakfast... They ate that late as well but that's my fault. I managed to get some sleep last night, almost 10 hours. I guess my body is trying to recover from the last 2 weeks. I was awoken by Puffy trying to stand on the back of my head and Princess head-butting me. Now they're off taking their "I just ate" nap.

Something peculiar is still going on though. Puffy is STILL nursing off Princess and she's allowing it. Not nursing like when she was a baby, but more like it's dessert if you know what I mean. Puffy is 9 weeks old now, should she still be doing this? After playing last night and today, I know that she has her full set of teeth... so I know this cannot be comfortable for Princess, yet she just lays there and does it anyway.

Everything seems to be sorted out now. I'm just short the Vet bill that cost me the $100, but I was told I would get that later in the week. Which is fine I guess, Princess is slated for Spaying at the HBSPCA at the beginning of October, so that leaves plenty of time. I'm going to have to find out what flea drops were used on them and the date... I have Frontline Plus here, but I can't apply it 'til the other has worn off.

TL;DR - we're all calm now everyone is home. Thanks everyone for the advice.

I am absolutely thrilled that you got your kitties back! Sorry for the delay in my answering you. I am certain it took a lot out of you having to fight for so long to get them back. They are so lucky to have you!

I hope you received the $100 she promised you and you are able to get your TV back at the end of the month.

Puffy is probably nursing because it's a comfort to her because they may have been separated while there. As love4himmies said I wouldn't try to stop Puffy nursing because Princess will put a stop to it when she's had enough of it.

Good luck to you Dakkar I wish you all the very best and for your kitties as well. :thumbs up