Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

cats peeing outside of box

azrael2000
June 30th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Hi All.

i have a situation going on that has me to the point of giving my cats up to the humane society, as I am at a loss for what to do. Hopefully someone here can help.

I had one cat who started peeing outside of the box, any and EVERYWHERE. I took him into the vet, who I trust, and the diagnosis was UTI. He was given a two week antibiotic shot for the issue, and I brought him home.

Recently, another cat (a female) has decided to start spraying all over the place. i wake up in the morning to cat pee, which I clean up with a product "Simply Solutions". But it seems if I clean up one place, they pee in another.

I take them out into my yard, clean the litter box regularly, use a pine, not clay based litter.

I have been told if a cat gets "angry" or "annoyed" they will start doing this.

And these cats have been together for at least 3 years, so it isn't like they are getting used to a new cat. i have been at my new home, which is 50 meters away from my old place (seriously) for about a year and a half...


Any help is appreciated. I'm running out of options and patience!

Regards

sugarcatmom
June 30th, 2012, 08:57 AM
Hi azrael2000, welcome to pets.ca.

How old are your kitties? Are they both neutered?


I had one cat who started peeing outside of the box,

When did that start?

I took him into the vet, who I trust, and the diagnosis was UTI.

How was the UTI diagnosed? Was urine (obtained via cystocentisis) sent out to a lab for a culture and sensitivity test?

A true urinary tract infection is actually quite rare in cats under the age of 10, which is why I'm wondering how old he is. Urinary tract inflammation without the presence of bacteria is much more common, and can be the result of things like stress or diet.

He was given a two week antibiotic shot for the issue, and I brought him home.

Did he stop peeing?


I clean up with a product "Simply Solutions".

Not familiar with this product.....is it an enzymatic cleaner? Is it scented?

I take them out into my yard, clean the litter box regularly,

How often is "regularly"? Once a week could be considered regular, but certainly not sufficient. Should be AT LEAST once a day, if not twice or more. How many boxes do you have? Ideally multi-cat households have a box per cat, plus an extra. So that would mean 3 boxes if you have 2 cats. Where they're located is also an important consideration.

I have been told if a cat gets "angry" or "annoyed" they will start doing this.

It's possible, in so far as that "anger" is due to stress and stress can impact urinary tract health. But inappropriate elimination is NOT an act of vengeance. It's a symptom of something not being right with the cat or in the cat's environment. Our job is to figure out what that is.

Some links for you to read:
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=litterbox
http://catexpert.blogspot.ca/2012/04/reader-question-dem-ol-litterbox-blues.html
http://www.hdw-inc.com/litterbox.htm

azrael2000
June 30th, 2012, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the response sugarcatmom...

I have had cats my entire life.... always rescues or walk-ins... :-D I have NEVER had any kind of issue with a cat / cats in my life... <blink>

Now, hopefully to answer your questions (in no particular order):

My cats are older - one 16 years old, 3 around 3... they were cats people threw away. I found one as a kitten in a snowbank, the other (which had the initial peeing issue) had frost bite and lost both ears and 1/2 tail. The female that is spraying is around 3 years old... wandered in one day... you know the story...

The UTI diagnosis was done by the vet by collecting a sample (while he was there) of urine, and whatever test they do. The vet said he saw crystals.

Did he stop peeing.... for the most part, he did. I found he has peed once or twice since...

Simply Soutions is an enzymatic cleaner. It dissolves the pee crystals, and kills the odour. i had a spot on a bed I used this on, and it disappeared completely. You can't tell anything happened.

Cleaning the box ... I do that twice a day, or whenever I happen to go down into the basement where it is kept.

Thanks for the links... I will read them as well....

Regards

sugarcatmom
June 30th, 2012, 04:41 PM
they were cats people threw away.

Ya, people sure suck sometimes. But then there are people like you that right the wrongs and make the world a better place. :grouphug:



The UTI diagnosis was done by the vet by collecting a sample (while he was there) of urine, and whatever test they do. The vet said he saw crystals.

Probably just in-house lab work, which isn't the most accurate for diagnosing urinary tract infections. I suspect the crystals were probably the main issue, and those are quite common in cats fed kibble. What do your kitties eat?

Cleaning the box ... I do that twice a day, or whenever I happen to go down into the basement where it is kept.

Great! Except that if you only have 1 litter box for 4 cats, even 2x/day may not be enough. Definitely add more boxes if that's the case, perhaps in a different area of the house if you can.

Do all your cats get along? Even if there isn't any actually fighting, there could be subtle territorial issues that involve the litter box (thus, the reason for putting another one in another location). How much vertical space do they have? Any cat trees or shelves they can use, which would increase the amount of available territory?

azrael2000
July 1st, 2012, 10:20 PM
Hi SugarCatMom.

Yes people can be evil. One of my cats was a kitten of about 3 months old that some .... insert your favorite explitive here... threw into a snowbank by my home. I went, picked her up after hearing her scream for 15 minutes, and the rest is history. (Mind you now that she is a cat teenager, she doesn't want daddie picking her up, kissing her... <grin>)

I will be getting my cats another litter box.. I have a fairly large one ... next size up is kiddie pool! <grin> It is Canada Day here :ca: , so it will have to wait until the pet stores open up after for the litter box.

As to the food they eat, I give them the Blue Buffalo Weight Control. They do like Whiskas and eat that too. I have to admit, however, I do spoil them with treats of various kinds. I take them out (4 cats) and they pretty much stay where I can keep an eye on them, so when they come in, they get treats for a job well done.

They get along, for the most part well. Every now and then there is that paw swatting and chasing, but it isn't like one specific one is picking on another (unless they keep that for when I am at work. But I doubt it).

Regards

BenMax
July 2nd, 2012, 09:13 AM
Can I relate. One of my cats did the same. He had a UTI as well, put on Baytril for 14 days and then all was well.
Last night however I had an 'incident'. I removed a litter box from a room and wouldn't you know it...he pee'd where the litter box 'was'. Just a few feet away, there are ALL 5 litter boxes. So, I put the litter box back where it was and we will see what happens.

I buy new litter boxes twice a year. Having 3 males and one female I feel that keeping things as fresh as possible helped.

Good luck with your cats and I hope that all goes well. I know how unpleasant this is!

azrael2000
July 2nd, 2012, 03:48 PM
Hi there.

You know, I didn't think of changing the litter box totally.

I have cleaned it out.... that is, removed the old litter, cleaned the box out with soap / water / bleach.... rinsed THOROUGHLY...

When I get the second box, I will see what happens.

I am pretty sure my little guy knows something is wrong. The look on his face says it all. It is hard, and sometimes I get frustrated, but I know he doesn't do it on purpose or maliciously ... so a hug, kiss and kind word comes out.

Regards

azrael2000
July 10th, 2012, 08:57 PM
An update.

This weekend, i went over the areas where the cats pee'd and cleaned with a mixture of soap, hot water and a little bit of bleach. Enough so that I was sure the bacteria was being killed, but not so much as to make an area unusable.

I did find one pillow that was just soaked with cat urine. I cleaned it with an anti-urine cleaner, and drenched it with water, and now it is clean.

Another thought...

I don't know if this relates, but can a cat be spraying and peeing outside of the box if a person comes around?

There is a person who comes around, and a female cat who is part of the trouble goes right downstairs and hides. When I am at home alone, the cat comes upstairs and sleeps with we, wanders around, comes outside.

Is that a possible issue?

Mom2Kitty
July 13th, 2012, 10:45 PM
I feel your pain! I have 3 cats--Taffy, Troutman, and Kitty--that I have 'collected' over the last 10 years. I got Taffy last and we have had her 4 or 5 years, so plenty of time for everyone to get used to each other. Kitty (a tortie) is quite temperamental/sassy and easily annoyed. The other 2 kitties are very sweet for the most part and are great friends. Kitty has been spraying up a storm!

A couple of years ago, she got in the habit of spraying a certain set of cabinet doors in the breakfast nook. We're going to replace those cabinets anyway, so I didn't stress about it. I would just spray Simple Solutions on there periodically. Then she seemed to stop doing it. Now, Kitty sprays EVERYTHING. If I bring a bag home from the store and sit it down and walk away for 5 minutes, she pees on it. She loooooves to pee on the screen of the TV--we have to cover it with a shower curtain when it is not in use. This past weekend, we observed a little interaction with Troutman that ended in Kitty spraying. She came through the dining room on her way to the living room, she saw that Troutman was lounging in the doorway between the two rooms. She stopped and growled at Trout to move (he was not blocking her way, she just doesn't want to walk within 3 feet of him) and when he didn't move, she turned around and walked up to a table leg and sprayed it!

It is so bad to come home from work and smell cat pee as soon as you open the door. I have found several pee spots by observing the cats. I know if they start intently smelling something and then look around with that crazy teeth-bared look, I better get out the Simple Solutions. At this rate I need to buy stock in that company! I have an appointment to take Kitty to the vet on Monday. I'm going to see about getting her some kitty Prozac. I read on here that might help.

I think Kitty's spraying may be related to her recent bout with cancer. I think Taffy and Troutman have sensed that she was sick and have been giving her a hard time. I think that is causing her to feel like she needs to mark her territory. At least that is my armchair cat whisperer theory:D

I'm thinking about getting a black light too so I can see what all I have left to clean. I heard that cat pee will show up with a black light. Can anyone attest to that?

Mom2Kitty
July 16th, 2012, 07:33 PM
I took Kitty to the vet today and after I described what she had been doing, the vet agreed that it was a behavior thing and not an infection. The fact that Kitty has been taking antibiotics continuously for the past couple months due to her chemo also helped to quickly rule out infection.

The vet gave me a prescription for Amitriptyline. I hope it works :fingerscr because it would be a really cheap solution to the problem. I got the prescription filled at Costco. They went ahead and gave me the refill also because I could get all 14 pills for the same price as 7 if I got it all at once. So, roughly a month's supply for $4.99.

azrael2000
July 22nd, 2012, 12:29 AM
OK... It has gone too far now.

One cat has actually peed on ME when I was in bed twice.... for no reason. There is a new litter box upstairs, one downlstairs that has been cleaned properly, and the cat's go out regularly.

Unless someone can give me a VERY good reason, I am going to have to have this cat PUT DOWN by the vet.

I will not tolerate this.

azrael2000
July 22nd, 2012, 01:32 AM
Folks.

:sorry:

No matter WHAT any cat does to me I would NEVER have it put down. I'd find it a home where it can wander free happily.

But I was so MAD when the cat did this, my temper got the better of me.

Apologies to anyone who might have been offended.

Regards

Hazmat
July 22nd, 2012, 09:49 AM
It really sounds like he needs another round of antibiotics. This time do pills or drops. I don't trust those two week shots.

azrael2000
July 22nd, 2012, 09:53 AM
Hi Hazmat.

This is a different cat. She, for the most part, pees where she is supposed to.

Once or twice she has "sprayed" things, but in the last two days she has urninated, specifically ON ME twice.

I have no idea what would have brought that on. No change in location, food, other cats...

The cat that did get the shot one or twice since has peed where he peed before, but I think that might be due to needing to clean up those areas better. I have enzyme cleaner and a proper steam cleaner now, and hopefully that will deal with that part of the situation, although a friend told me to buy a BIG box of baking soda, put it on the areas where the peeing occurred over night, and then vacuum thoroughly.

Regards

lindapalm
July 22nd, 2012, 11:36 PM
Azrael2000, since you have tried everything, and had no luck, would you consider trying medications? We put one of our cats on Amitriptyline and had no luck, but my mother in law has had great luck with Fluoxetine. It might be worth it as a last resort

azrael2000
July 24th, 2012, 01:50 PM
Hi Linda.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will consider it. I'm not a big drug person for myself or cats... but if it will help...

I did find a little something to help my sanity... While I love the Nature's Miracle enzymic cleaner for things, when there is a (big) puddle on the floor, after I soak up the urine, I use the NM, and then use a mix of

16 oz hydrogen peroxide,
1 teaspoon dish washing liquid
1 table spoon baking powder.

(I make sure no cats can get at this until it is dry, etc.)

I am amazed at how well this removes both the smells.

Regard

Mom2Kitty
July 25th, 2012, 12:42 AM
I know this doesn't make getting peed on less gross or infuriating but, I have read on other sites that a cat peeing on you is a sign of affection. They are putting their scent on you to keep other cats away.

Kitty has been on Amitriptyline about a week now. I smelled cat pee when I got home last night, so I think it is not working. I have a 28 day supply of it so I'm going to see it through. If it doesn't improve we'll try fluoxetine or valium. I am hoping one of these will mellow her out so the spraying AND the fighting stops. I'm tired of cleaning up cat pee and getting awakened in the middle of the night by cats fighting. I guess if this keeps up, maybe I'll just take the valium instead of Kitty :laughing:

I'm looking for a good blacklight to help me find all the spots that have been marked. Last night I saw Kitty sniffing the laundry room door and making 'the face'. Sure enough, door had been sprayed many times. I checked other doors and they were sprayed also. I have a lot of cleaning to do!

azrael2000
July 25th, 2012, 05:52 AM
Hi Mom2Kitty.

When you mention a cat peeing on you is a sign of affection....

i was reading in another thread about a cat that got all growly at a boyfriend of a lady.... That was when I kinda started thinking.... the cat only peed on me when another person was in my house.

I really am beginning to believe that I owe the cat an apology. I think she was saying "I know you aren't being entirely truthful with my poo box cleaner / treat giver" (have you EVER known a cat to have an OWNER??? <smile>)

I have tried the formula I mentioned from a spray bottle, like the ones for plants, and so far seems to work very well. Which would kinda make sense. (Hydrogen Peroxide = anti bacterial, dish soap = loosens stuck on stuff, baking soda = absorb smells).

And I keep the cats off of it until I am sure everything is dry / clean.

Hope things go well for you. Please let us know how things go!

Regards

Longblades
July 25th, 2012, 08:00 AM
OK, I read the whole thing and everyone's suggestions. Our four cats came to us the same way as yours. It isn't even supposed to be four but it looks like #4 is staying. Sigh.

My only contribution is please try four litter boxes and put them in different rooms if you can. Then I'd make sure each cat knows where the new boxes are and I'd let them pick their own. For us we find one box is used by two cats for poop and the other for pee. One cat has her own box for both and #4 is still shut in a safe room at night with his own box.

Oh, that's another idea. Can you shut the bed pee'er in another room at night? We do this because #4 is feral and we don't want him reverting to his nocturnal behaviours and tearing around the house all night. We try to play with him as much as we can during the day so he will sleep at night.

Another thought, sad thought, but maybe four is just too many? One of ours is positive that one is enough and we have to be careful or there will be bad, Vet trip needed, fights. Did your problems start after your #4 arrived?

azrael2000
July 25th, 2012, 08:11 PM
Hi Longblades.

No the problem didn't start until the person who the cat runs from took her away from me and the other ones... in a case of what I can only call idunno.

She started spraying at the other place, and when she was returned she continued, though it does seem to be slowing down.

All the cats have been together for quite a while, so I don't believe it is a case of "new cat anxiety". As I said earlier, maybe the cat that was spraying is trying to protect ME... (not actually sure how spraying would help, but maybe it is something in the cat social structure... <grin>)

Regards