Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Should I? or should I not?

Spring
October 11th, 2004, 04:04 PM
After much research and reading many books with raising dog, I've concluded that I have the best possible environment/long-term commitment necessary to accept a new friend into my life.

It's not easy, it requires a very consistent and free lifestyle in order to provide the best for the pet in return for many happy years of pleasure together. Many irresponsible pet owner don't have a detailed plan, in fact I'd be surprised if they have any plan at all in bringing a new life into their family. In effect, we have countless dogs in needs for the long-term "perfect home" which is rare.

Thankfully it seems that everyone in this forum carries good heart and respect for animals.

Because of that, I'm sure many of you are very knowledgeable in the process of acquiring a pet.

I would like some support and advice from you guys. I deeply appreciate your time with all my heart and respect. Thank you.

I currently reside in Vancouver, BC, Canada. I am seeking for a long-term companion for another 13 years minimum. I am confident that the lifespan would be even higher under my care and guidance.

I am no supporter of puppymill or any irresponsible people who blind their soul to make a profit in the misery of other life form. but the options are so narrow...

I have search numerously for adopting my ideal pet and have had no luck.
I really want to support some of those rescue dog in needs, but I am not in the position to accept a friend passing away from me in that short while of time. Therefore I am seeking to raise a baby puppy from start. I am very suited for such responsibility as I work at home due to my profession. That is also the reason for a companion. I just can't seem to find the puppy I'm after for.

I am seeking to adopt a healthy baby puppy, a new born would be excellent, preferably a Golden Retriever or a Shetland Sheepdog. I am willing to pay for all the air cost to transfer the little guy to my area if necessary. I live in the area Vancouver, BC, Canada, but if possible it is best to have one from my local area so I can drive and meet the person responsible for taking care of them.

I want to give my all and my best to this perfect friend, so I cannot accept any health disorder due to genetic issues. I want a very healthy friend so that I can raise him in best possible condition, both physically and mentally under best health.


Do you think it is even possible to find such opportunity for me? Especially from where I am located?

I've read this http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=6806 and I really don't want to get caught in these adoption nightmares and it seems to me like adopting a friend is really difficult and finding the type I described is almost "impossible like"

But no matter what I'm going to get one that fits my ideal description which I described earlier. I hate to turn to puppymills for solution and that is why I need your help to help me find the alternative solution besides puppymill.

I mean is there anything thats legimate like a respectable breeder for me? Or in my area or willing to transfer to my area?

I came across some classified ads in which I believe are puppymills and I hate to buy it off from them. It is not right, I'm willing to wait a bit if necessary and come across the perfect friend I have long for.

If you guys know or think you can help me, please let me know, reply here or e-mail me at chinf@telus.net and I can provide a detail plan about the environment that I can provide for the little guy as well as all the information necessary for adoption, etc.

I just want to pursue all possible solution before turning to the disgusting rotten mills that labour animals for ones personal gain.

I wish I wasn't as limited.

Thank you all for your help!

:)

glasslass
October 11th, 2004, 04:22 PM
Good for you for planning in advance for your little friend and for doing your homework. In all honesty, I think the majority of your limitations are ones that you yourself are imposing. There is no absolute guarantee that any puppy will turn into the "perfect pet" that you are seeking. When you do find a puppy, it will be you who will train, shape and guide this little lump of love into the ideal pet. Puppies are flesh and blood with little personalities. They can be naughty and mischievious. Den-Den had me in tears many times when he was a puppy. But that is all part of the joy too. He's not perfect, but he is to me. I suggest taking a little additional preparation. Do a little volunteering at a local pet rescue. Talk with several veterinarians. They are in a position to know of available puppies or young dogs that need a home. Allow yourself the flexibility to be able to recognize if the right one should become available, even if not exactly what you specified. Keep your heart open. :)

Spring
October 11th, 2004, 04:53 PM
Good for you for planning in advance for your little friend and for doing your homework. In all honesty, I think the majority of your limitations are ones that you yourself are imposing. There is no absolute guarantee that any puppy will turn into the "perfect pet" that you are seeking. When you do find a puppy, it will be you who will train, shape and guide this little lump of love into the ideal pet. Puppies are flesh and blood with little personalities. They can be naughty and mischievious. Den-Den had me in tears many times when he was a puppy. But that is all part of the joy too. He's not perfect, but he is to me. I suggest taking a little additional preparation. Do a little volunteering at a local pet rescue. Talk with several veterinarians. They are in a position to know of available puppies or young dogs that need a home. Allow yourself the flexibility to be able to recognize if the right one should become available, even if not exactly what you specified. Keep your heart open. :)


Thanks for your reply, I do know how to train them, when I mean "perfect pet" I mean that they are perfect from the moment that they're born. I don't care if they make mistakes, in my eyes they are still perfect, it is us who needs the responsibility to inform them of the rules of our surrounding.

So with all respect, I am seeking for a "perfect pet" thats perfectly healthy and new born, thats my ideal pet. Sorry for any confusion, since we all have different defintion to perfection, and I'm sorry for misleading you into thinking I demand the best without willing to put any into shaping it.

.unknown.
October 11th, 2004, 11:09 PM
New born? are you suggesting you would bottle feed it?

Because that's not good. Babies need their mothers milk in the first weeks of life to build immunity. If they don't, they're lives are at great risk. It can be done in situations where the mother is not capable of caring for pups, but if the mom is there...then it's no question.

I hope that's not what you mean

:confused:

heeler's rock!
October 11th, 2004, 11:21 PM
I also would like to know what you mean when you say "new born". Pups need to socialize for at least 8 weeks with the mother and other pups so they don't develop social issues. Please don't get a pup less than 8 weeks old. That is also another sign of a disreputable breeder.....

lilpaws
October 12th, 2004, 10:32 AM
I wish you luck finding your new friend. I believe that everyone here loves pets as much as you. It's great to love these family members but I am a bit concerned that you may expect too much from your "new born". There is no such thing as the "perfect" pet and there is no such thing as the "perfect" home. We just do our best showering these friends with love, affection and very importantly guidance. It is really nice to see that you have put so much thought before adopting. We live in a spontaneous world (hence credit card debt) and more ppl should take the time before such a life altering decision. All the best.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 10:49 AM
You don't need to adopt a senior dog if you are looking for a young dog (although I adore seniors). There are all kinds of young dogs in rescue, by limiting yourself to 8 week old pups you are really missing out on a lot of wonderful rescue dogs. Also age is no guarantee of a long life, I know many people who have lost very young dogs to cancer and bloat among just a few things.


I really want to support some of those rescue dog in needs, but I am not in the position to accept a friend passing away from me in that short while of time. Therefore I am seeking to raise a baby puppy from start.

mastifflover
October 12th, 2004, 10:56 AM
Adopting a dog that is in the age range of 1-4 is not that old for a dog and will have many years to give you. I personally love puppies but if and when I get another dog it will be another rescue these dogs prove how wonderful they are over and over again. I really believe when these dogs become part of your family they will give their lives to protect you. I think it is because they have known awful lives before and really know how good they have it in their new homes and appreciate everyone and every minute of it.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 10:58 AM
Thanks for all your reply,

By new born I mean at least 7 weeks.

As for your concern regarding "perfect" pet, I thought I already clarify this.
Read my second post.

As for "perfect" home, there is a perfect home, and thats to responsibly provide the best to your friend. Loving your pet is one thing, but ability is another. I would put "perfect" as in both.

Lucky Rescue
October 12th, 2004, 10:59 AM
Also age is no guarantee of a long life,

So true, especially for puppies who come from mills and backyard breeders. They can have all kinds of genetic defects which may shorten their lives. Some small breeds can live for 17+ years, so a 3 yr old is very young.:)

Are you looking for a particular breed?

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 11:06 AM
You don't need to adopt a senior dog if you are looking for a young dog (although I adore seniors). There are all kinds of young dogs in rescue, by limiting yourself to 8 week old pups you are really missing out on a lot of wonderful rescue dogs. Also age is no guarantee of a long life, I know many people who have lost very young dogs to cancer and bloat among just a few things.

:) Thanks for your opinion.

That is the main reason why I want a new born[ 7-8 weeks] because if they're mistreated they could develop health issues beyond my control. I am worry that the older dogs I adopt are abused by former owner who haven't taken the proper education in raising and handling their friend. If you really love your friend, I don't see how someone can give them up. Even if it's emergency situation. I'm not saying thats the case for all owners, but it's a mixed issue.

I do realize that some new born may develop genetic health problems due to poor breeder and handling, that is why when I try to seek for one to adopt, I go through heavy screening to ensure the breeder is responsible. I also demand for health certification as a form of assurance.


Can anyone help me find the proper source to adopt a friend?

Thanks!

jackieb
October 12th, 2004, 11:15 AM
There are somtimes young puppies in the rescues but i wouldnt have thought they could tell you all there health history just what they have had done to them while they have been in the rescue.

Another option for you might be to buy from a breeder if you want a health certificate but do your research into the different breeds and get a good breeder phone the rescue organisations for that breed i have done this for the dog i am looking for.

I know as kids we always had rescue dogs and they were always ok never had health problems. Now we purchased a mastiff puppy we had the injection fees worming etc to keep the dog at his best also neutering fees etc this is all worth thinking about i dont know how much vets are in Canada as i havent been yet but in England they were very expensive.

Some dogs in rescue arent abused dogs some people get rid of there dogs when they move or have children etc i wouldnt do this but it happens .

jackieb
October 12th, 2004, 11:17 AM
i purchased a mastiff puppy 5 years ago we now seeking another but we had quite a few vet bills with this dog and he was a peidree puppy

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Some dogs in rescue arent abused dogs some people get rid of there dogs when they move or have children etc i wouldnt do this but it happens .

Hey! Thanks for your reply :)

I think it is cruel enough to abandon a friend, and it is cruel, when they're depressed and constantly unhappy because of that, it affects their health and life span... So to me thats already a form of abuse. Which is worst? A owner who bad mouth the dog,etc or a owner who shown great love then took that away?

I think the latter one is more worst simply because the dog would have no problem forgetting and even disliking that owner who mistreat them. But for dogs who are abandoned, from the second description, they would always think about their happy memories, they would alwyas miss them, depress and wonder why they could not live in their past. That creates a health issue over time, and thats why you see so many depressed dogs. Many of these dogs could never be satisfied again becuase the new owner just isn't the old one, so they're still unhappy and have an emptiness in them that no one could fulfill but their original master.

I seen it happen, on the good side I've also seen dogs who live happily again and forget about the past.

I guess it really depends on individuals.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 11:44 AM
Even with good breeding genetic problems can and do happen. If health is the biggest concern, I would go with an adult, pups, regardless of where they come from, are a crapshoot. And health guarantees mean a couple different things, generally they do not mean you will get financial help with a problem, often they mean they will send you another dog, which may also have health problems, and sometimes they will only do that after you have returned the dog that has been your cherished companion since purchase. How many people would do that? Not many, and they know that.

I run a rescue and we have had very few serious health issues with the dogs. My friends tho who have bought from breeders who are respected have had no end of issues. Again, no guarantee. You said you want help with adopting, do you mean adopting, or buying from a breeder?


I do realize that some new born may develop genetic health problems due to poor breeder and handling, that is why when I try to seek for one to adopt, I go through heavy screening to ensure the breeder is responsible. I also demand for health certification as a form of assurance.


Can anyone help me find the proper source to adopt a friend?

Thanks!

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Hi LLI :)

Thanks for your reply!

I want to adopt one, but my concerns with adoption are heavy.

I do not need financial help in any form for the wellness of my dog, so that isn't an issue for me, thankfully :)

My moral do not permit me to buy one when there are lots of dogs in needs of what I can offer.

I want to turn buying as a last resort, so I am seeking to adopt a small healthy baby.

I want alternative solution besides purchasing from "puppymill"

I am in need of opinion and advice thats why I turn to this forum.

Thank you all for your kind response.
:)

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 12:40 PM
Are you looking for a particular breed?

Thanks LuckyRescue :)
This is what I'm looking for:

I am seeking to adopt a healthy baby puppy, a new born would be excellent, preferably a Golden Retriever or a Shetland Sheepdog. I am willing to pay for all the air cost to transfer the little guy to my area if necessary. I live in the area Vancouver, BC, Canada, but if possible it is best to have one from my local area so I can drive and meet the person responsible for taking care of them.

"note" when I mean new-born I am saying at least 7 weeks old. Most people assume I meant "just born" which is not what I meant, besides it would be impossible to transfer any animal thats under 8 weeks by law. The reason I use the term "new-born" is because on petfinder they listed many "baby" which could be confusing to people as many of those baby are quite big in size and difficult to transfer if required. Those baby are well past 8 weeks, some are even 5-6 months. So it could be misleading and thats why I used the term "new-born" thanks for your understanding, sorry for the confusion.

lilith_rizel
October 12th, 2004, 12:50 PM
I do gree that age doesn't determin how long a dog will live. I have seen dogs that have lived for 15+ years, and others, only lived to be a year or 2. Adopting a puppy, doesn't mean that it is going to live the expected life age. Any dog could have an illnes that is not detectable. I enjoy getting dogs that are a year or so old. That way I feel that there hasn't been any serious health issues that have arised yet.
When I was little, my parents had gotten a poodle mix pup, and she lived with us for only about 5 years before she started getting ill. I can't remember what is was, but she had to be put down, to stop her suffering.
We also had a great dane, we bought when he was 5 years of age. We had to put him to sleep about 5 years later due to hip displacement. The vet said that he lived a long time being that he weighed about 200 pounds, and he was fairly larger than other danes. He was actually suprised that he made it past 8 years of age.
My point is, getting a puppy, doesn't say that it will live past 5 years, and doesn't say it won't. Sometimes it is better to get a dog that is a couple years old.

Required_Fields
October 12th, 2004, 12:51 PM
You exhibit an extremely unhealthy attitude. How do you know that under your care this dog will live a long life? This is a ridiculous expectation or assumption. What if your dog has behavioural problems, or develops a debilitating disease at an early age? You seem to be very judgemental of others but don't seem to be reasonable yourself. Good luck finding the " perfect puppy" ....

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 12:59 PM
You exhibit an extremely unhealthy attitude. How do you know that under your care this dog will live a long life? This is a ridiculous expectation or assumption. What if your dog has behavioural problems, or develops a debilitating disease at an early age? You seem to be very judgemental of others but don't seem to be reasonable yourself. Good luck finding the " perfect puppy" ....

I don't appreciate your negative remark.

I know that under my care that the dog will live a long life simply because I've done a lot of preparation and responsible measurements to ensure that.

You do not know me, nor do I know you. if you read a lot of books, you'll realize that most problems are created by our direct influence, so behavioural problems is not just genetic as most people think, it's by our action and impact. I hope you are more "constructive" in your negativity.

Thank you.

"edit" more over it seems that you do not have any rights to put down on me

"Required_Fields
Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2

Owners wake up

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My 36 lbs. dog was recently attacked and bit by a husky, and earlier this year attacked and bit by..yes... a pitbull.

In both cases I blame the owners for extremely irresponsible ownership. "

Your quote of what you said to me applies most to people like you. All you do is blame people and attack people, maybe if you were more careful about your dog engaging with other dogs or speaking to the owner of the other dog before letting your dog approach in close distance, such incident wouldn't happen?

Once again, your attack applies to yourself...

Please cut down on the hatred.

Lighten up, I know that you love your dog a lot and that it's really unfortunate that he got attacked twice, but you should not excercise your personal ego onto someone else. I've had friend's who gave his dog to another person when he went on vacation, but and didn't make a CLEAR RULE LIST to his friend, he wasn't superstrict about it, then that friend of his let his sister take his dog out for a walk, but without a leash and got ran over by a car. He regreted terribly that he didn't do everything possible to prevent such incident, I know that sometimes things are unexpected and it does happen. But if we take more of a solid approach to these things, then these issues would not surface. Especially if you provide proper training. How many times have you heard about a police dog getting run over by a car? I doubt you heard about it compare to the amount of regular owners who lost their dog from car accident... It is unreasonable to say you can't assume a certain lifespan of years, that just show that YOU want things to happen and not doing the best of your ability to prevent it. Theres a difference between having fun and being super strict. I believe if you're super strict on many rules many times these accident could be prevented. More over, it is unfair for you to put down on other people like me because of your negative experience. Not everyone are like you... We are different people, we may all have equal love for the animal, but I doubt we all have equal abilities....

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 01:01 PM
I do gree that age doesn't determin how long a dog will live. I have seen dogs that have lived for 15+ years, and others, only lived to be a year or 2. Adopting a puppy, doesn't mean that it is going to live the expected life age. Any dog could have an illnes that is not detectable. I enjoy getting dogs that are a year or so old. That way I feel that there hasn't been any serious health issues that have arised yet.
When I was little, my parents had gotten a poodle mix pup, and she lived with us for only about 5 years before she started getting ill. I can't remember what is was, but she had to be put down, to stop her suffering.
We also had a great dane, we bought when he was 5 years of age. We had to put him to sleep about 5 years later due to hip displacement. The vet said that he lived a long time being that he weighed about 200 pounds, and he was fairly larger than other danes. He was actually suprised that he made it past 8 years of age.
My point is, getting a puppy, doesn't say that it will live past 5 years, and doesn't say it won't. Sometimes it is better to get a dog that is a couple years old. It is irresponsible to say that adopting a puppy doesn't mean that you can't expect an estimated lifespan.

If you are responsible, you can expect a estimated lifespan, by making sure he is actively healthy, by paying close attention to diet, excercise and generally how you take care of him. Many "accident" and death related concerns CAN be prevented if we are extremely careful and thoughtful.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 01:04 PM
I ask for advice in adoption, and I haven't had one single direct response thats helping me to find the pet for my area.

This is a big discouragement and it is the reason why people turn to puppymills. Because it is "hassel free"

Don't get me wrong, it is not a big hassel for me, it's just stressful that people seem to be more on the attacking side than helping side. Maybe im not super clear on some points, if so I am truly sorry.

Thank you :)

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 01:17 PM
Go to www.petfinder.com and punch in your location and what you are looking for and dogs will come up.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 01:19 PM
No - you can't - that's unrealistic and unfair to those responsible people who have lost dogs at very young ages to cancer and bloat and other ailments.



If you are responsible, you can expect a estimated lifespan, by making sure he is actively healthy, by paying close attention to diet, excercise and generally how you take care of him.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 01:20 PM
That is so bizarre I can not believe you seriously believe that.

I know that under my care that the dog will live a long life simply because I've done a lot of preparation and responsible measurements to ensure that.

tyr
October 12th, 2004, 01:34 PM
I think the latter one is more worst simply because the dog would have no problem forgetting and even disliking that owner who mistreat them. But for dogs who are abandoned, from the second description, they would always think about their happy memories, they would alwyas miss them, depress and wonder why they could not live in their past. That creates a health issue over time, and thats why you see so many depressed dogs. Many of these dogs could never be satisfied again becuase the new owner just isn't the old one, so they're still unhappy and have an emptiness in them that no one could fulfill but their original master.

I think that it is great that you have put so much thought and planning into owning a new pet! :) On the flip side of this though, I think you may be putting TOO much thought into the whole thing. You have over looked some really great places to get a wonderful, perfect pet for you based on myths. As well, I think physical abuse of an animal is much worse than having to give up a much loved pet. It is just as hard for an owner to give up a long time friend as it is for the pet - both feel much hurt and loss. Though, there are owners who just give up a pet for really stupid reasons - but the pet can still be extremely amazing for someone else. I have a cat that I adopted from the shelter here in Ottawa 2 years ago. He was 10 then and went through some ordeals due to breakup of him and his owner. The owner was moving and was forced to leave his much loved friend behind. Jesse (cat) had to be put into foster care because he started to go downhill. The owner checked up on him through email with the foster mom for quite a while until it became to difficult. Everyone thought Jesse would die, but he came through. He was put back into the adoption room at the shelter and the next day my husband and I went in, saw him, and fell in love. The foster mom was surprised, she thought that he would never find a home because of his age and hardships. Now Jesse and I are inseperable. I believe him to be happier than he ever has. I think all the time about what a horrid thing it would have been to pass off this beautiful pet due to his age and illness. He was still special needs at the time. Now he is healthier than ever. The vet is always astounded by how healthy he is. The first time I took him they thought he was much younger than 10.

Anyway, I just think you should keep your heart open. You do not always find the pet, most often the pet finds you. If you do not discriminate or let those awful myths get in the way you WILL find your perfect friend - sooner than later.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 01:34 PM
All I have to say is igorance is bliss.


This is a difference of opinion. :)

It is easy to say that you are responsible and you tried your best, etc...

If you adopted a healthy pet from the beginning, what makes you think that the dog will naturally die suddenly?

When I mean healthy, it means that the dog have a HISTORY of healthy long-lasting age, and you know that by checking their origin, their family, health of parents, etc. Especially if it comes with a very top breeder.

Are you telling me that I can't expect a long life and I don't have the right to expect a long life off from my friend? Eventhough I know that one of my family member is a vet and can always provide the best healthy measurement? Just because I didn't say all that doesn't mean I don't know myself well enough...

If you can't expect a long life pet, why do you think there are so many senior dogs?

I think it is unfair to say that "No you can't assume this and that because you are stupid if you think so" It's a difference of opinion.

I'm not saying that im superior and others not. I'm just stating a fact because I know myself well enough to support it.

tyr
October 12th, 2004, 01:37 PM
Wow! So much conversing has gone on since I started writing my 2 cents worth!!!! Please do not miss my previous post! :)

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 01:41 PM
Hey tyr!

Thank you so much for your kind response and encouragement.

It really means a lot to me. Thank you.

I think that people should put a lot of thought into the future before adopting a companion, because it's like giving birth to a child. Are you going to abandon your son? Certainly not, so it is a responsibility that people should not take likely. They can't say "Oh I want a pet now" and be inconsiderate to the animal. When people send pets to the pound, they're not helping, they may think that "im helping other people and the pet" so that other people can have a chance of this great pet. But they don't realize that the pain the pet goes through during the pound is far more greater than the days of joy with the new master. I've had friends who adopted dogs that are like that. Not all dogs are like that, but certainly we are putting them in pain from the moment we abandon them. Why not have it a smooth line instead of a line that has one down?

Thats just my opinion though :)

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 01:46 PM
Before I didn't know anything about puppymill, but my relative who is a local vet in my area told me not to buy one and told me to look for one to adopt. And thats when I started researching about adopting one. The breed im looking for is rare in my area. I've looked up petfinder before coming to this forum, and believe me I've searched MANY places to adopt one and had no luck with finding one for my area. Thats why I turn to this forum for advice.

jackieb
October 12th, 2004, 01:47 PM
im sorry but although you can try to do evertyhin within your power to make your pet the most healthiest pet there are things they can get without warning or breeding problems like cancer tumors etc like humans we cant keep them from everything we can just know we have done all we can to provide them a healthy life. I did alot of reasearch on my mastiff health checks certificates etc and he was run over by a car no one could have prodicted that.

A site which is good is www.petfinder.com and check all your local humane societies in your area puppies go quickly though so perhaps put your name down at some.

raingirl
October 12th, 2004, 01:51 PM
I have a thought. I'm getting confused when you say you want to "adopt" a dog instead of buy a dog. But a lot of the stuff you want in your dog isn't possible in an adopted dog. Most adopted dogs you won't know their history, where they came from, who their parents were.

So, are you looking for a breeder then?

In effect, whether you are going to byb's, puppy mills, pet stores, breeders, a shelter, or a rescue, you are buying the pet either way.

So, what you are saying is you want a puppy, just born, from a rescue or shelter, that you know the parents lineage so you can gurantee it's a good dog?

I'm confused....

try these shelters in Vancouver:

http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/BC62.html

http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/BC52.html

http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/BC29.html

tyr
October 12th, 2004, 01:52 PM
I know that Jesse went through some real heartache. I also know that he has had far more days of joy with me than he did heartache. Jesse and I "fell in love" at first sight. One hour with each other I am sure made up for all the days of pain and anguish. One day would have been cheishable. The two years thus far......unforgetable and completely appreciated. I think his previous owner did help Jesse and myself (as well as my husband and our other 2 fur babies). His sacrifice has brought so much love and joy to all of our lives. I know his decision was a painful one and I would never hold that against him. If he did not bring Jesse to that shelter we would never have found each other. I cannot imagine my life without him and when I do it is painful....he is like my child.

I know in my heart and by my days spent with Jesse that we were meant to be together. With this I know that he is much more in love with me than his previous owner - even though they had 10 years. I guess I just cannot imagine him any happier than he is. I think anyone would agree who has met him.

I am forever greatful to his previous owner and all my heart goes out to him - his loss became my heart.

Lucky Rescue
October 12th, 2004, 01:59 PM
You are not going to find an 8 week old Golden or Sheltie in a shelter or rescue, unless someone dumps their dog with a litter. Even then there will be no papers or guarantees of any kind.

If you want to get a puppy from a breeder, make sure you ask this breeder all relevant questions, such as are the mother and father of the litter titled to a championship in conformation and/or performance and health tested against all defects known to this breed? Ask for specifics. How many litters do they have each year? Do they have a waiting list? Will they take back their puppies at any time in their lives? Do they sell with spay/neuter contracts? What kind of health guarantees are offered?

IF the breeder doesn't want to answer you, or says something like "I don't have time to show my dogs" or "I just KNOW my dogs are healthy" or "I breed my dog because she is cute and my friends want a puppy", look someplace else.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 02:05 PM
I have a thought. I'm getting confused when you say you want to "adopt" a dog instead of buy a dog. But a lot of the stuff you want in your dog isn't possible in an adopted dog. Most adopted dogs you won't know their history, where they came from, who their parents were.

So, are you looking for a breeder then?

In effect, whether you are going to byb's, puppy mills, pet stores, breeders, a shelter, or a rescue, you are buying the pet either way.

So, what you are saying is you want a puppy, just born, from a rescue or shelter, that you know the parents lineage so you can gurantee it's a good dog?

I'm confused....

try these shelters in Vancouver:

http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/BC62.html

http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/BC52.html

http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/BC29.html

Thank you raingirl, I've searched those shelter already but had no luck.

What I mean is, I am looking to adopt one, but I am hoping to find one where it is from a responsible source, with parent lineage, etc... My relative is a vet and he told me that many times people would have "extra" puppies that are sent to the pound and from good reliable sources...

So I'm hoping to find one to adopt with an adoption fee of course or a shelter that carries a baby from those sources. Some shelter would probably know the parents of those baby puppies, and know their background/lineage.

That's what I'm trying to find.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 02:07 PM
You said it! And no, it's a fact, not a difference of opinion.

All I have to say is igorance is bliss.


This is a difference of opinion. :)

It happens all the time. That's reality. Dogs from *top* breeders with great health in their lines can still have dogs that die of cancer and other ailments at young ages. I know of many that have, including some from those with many, many champions with long lives as their sire and dam and all the way back in their lines. There are NO guarantees. And vets cannot cure everything. Just like with kids, families can end up with babies dying of retinoblastoma as babies. It can and does happen. To delude yourself otherwise is not wise. I did not say you were stupid, but your opinion is wrong.


It is easy to say that you are responsible and you tried your best, etc...

If you adopted a healthy pet from the beginning, what makes you think that the dog will naturally die suddenly?

When I mean healthy, it means that the dog have a HISTORY of healthy long-lasting age, and you know that by checking their origin, their family, health of parents, etc. Especially if it comes with a very top breeder.

Are you telling me that I can't expect a long life and I don't have the right to expect a long life off from my friend? Eventhough I know that one of my family member is a vet and can always provide the best healthy measurement? Just because I didn't say all that doesn't mean I don't know myself well enough...

If you can't expect a long life pet, why do you think there are so many senior dogs?

I think it is unfair to say that "No you can't assume this and that because you are stupid if you think so" It's a difference of opinion.

I'm not saying that im superior and others not. I'm just stating a fact because I know myself well enough to support it.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 02:09 PM
Then it would not be a good reliable source, or a responsible breeder.

What I mean is, I am looking to adopt one, but I am hoping to find one where it is from a responsible source, with parent lineage, etc... My relative is a vet and he told me that many times people would have "extra" puppies that are sent to the pound and from good reliable sources...

raingirl
October 12th, 2004, 02:10 PM
Oh..ok...I get it..

But technically that's not adopting....

You said before that money is not an issue, why not just buy from a breeder? The chances of getting what you want from a shelter are slim to none. I have been looking for months!! I doubt a breeder would give away unwanted pups as most breeders have waiting lists. And...say for instance..an owner has unwanted pups from 2 purebred dogs (by chance) he/she will probably just sell them.

The only way you will know the health/lineage is to buy from a breeder and not adopt...

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 02:12 PM
You are not going to find an 8 week old Golden or Sheltie in a shelter or rescue, unless someone dumps their dog with a litter. Even then there will be no papers or guarantees of any kind.

If you want to get a puppy from a breeder, make sure you ask this breeder all relevant questions, such as are the mother and father of the litter titled to a championship in conformation and/or performance and health tested against all defects known to this breed? Ask for specifics. How many litters do they have each year? Do they have a waiting list? Will they take back their puppies at any time in their lives? Do they sell with spay/neuter contracts? What kind of health guarantees are offered?

IF the breeder doesn't want to answer you, or says something like "I don't have time to show my dogs" or "I just KNOW my dogs are healthy" or "I breed my dog because she is cute and my friends want a puppy", look someplace else.

Thanks for your advice, I am not looking for some sort of paper health assurance, I am looking for a source of healthy puppies. You usually get the source from a very reliable owner who doesn't breed for profit, but breed for joy and have 1-2 litter a year max on occasion. And that their dogs are champions. Or that they have a history for the family line.
Sometimes there may be "extras" for adoption. If people do it for joy, not for profit, my question is, why do you need a waiting list?

Can you explain more about the purpuse of waiting list?

Kindly appreciated. Thank you :)

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 02:17 PM
LL1 you still don't convinced me that I'm wrong in my opinion and that yours is a fact.

There is no way that you can say that I cant see my dog live for another 13 years.

Look at all the dogs every year that are being abandon, please tell me their age. Most are seniors, many in their 13 years of life, so if they can have such long life under the care of their master, what makes you think that I can't?

It is unfair to say and take that away from me.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 02:21 PM
Then it would not be a good reliable source, or a responsible breeder.

You misunderstood me, when I said that I meant that are sent to the pound not as in "directly" from the breeder but ends up being sent to the pound from the new owner for whatever reasons and doesn't send back to the breeder for care.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 02:27 PM
Oh..ok...I get it..

But technically that's not adopting....

You said before that money is not an issue, why not just buy from a breeder? The chances of getting what you want from a shelter are slim to none. I have been looking for months!! I doubt a breeder would give away unwanted pups as most breeders have waiting lists. And...say for instance..an owner has unwanted pups from 2 purebred dogs (by chance) he/she will probably just sell them.

The only way you will know the health/lineage is to buy from a breeder and not adopt...
Because there are no breeders in my area that has the type of dog I am after.
I tried looking but can't find any. And good breeders from other places won't transfer or they won't allow me to get one from them since I am not local. :/

Thats why adoption is easier because they want to find the right home for the pet.

raingirl
October 12th, 2004, 02:29 PM
I don't know what it's like in BC..but in Ontario it's different.

If you have someone who is breeding puppys not for profit, that is considered irresponsible and they are nothing but a breeder, and a bad one at that. Even if the parents of the dogs had a history of good health and championship, there is no gurantee whatsoever the puppies will be good health.

I did some courses in genetics in school....genetics are random. And because dogs are so inbred...there are many more chances of getting genetic defects. Two of my friends had a child with a genetic kidney disease. No one in either of their families ever had it before, but because they both had the gene, there is a 1 in 4 chance that all their children will have it (so far they are 2 for 2).

And with some diseases/problems, they are incurrable (despite having good vet care) and you will loose your dog and there's nothing you can do about it.

In ontario, all breeders, good or bad, have waiting lists...6 months to 5 years at least. And from what I understand, 2 litters a year is a bad practise for a breeder (hence the waiting lists). I was told by a reputable golden breeder in ONtario that they should only breed once every 2-3 years.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Thanks for your advice!

I agree with you on the breeding part.

I think some breeders have two couples so that they can breed 2 times a year max.
Is that bad? Like technically 1 couple per year [male and female].

lilith_rizel
October 12th, 2004, 02:36 PM
It is irresponsible to say that adopting a puppy doesn't mean that you can't expect an estimated lifespan.

If you are responsible, you can expect a estimated lifespan, by making sure he is actively healthy, by paying close attention to diet, excercise and generally how you take care of him. Many "accident" and death related concerns CAN be prevented if we are extremely careful and thoughtful.
I never said that you can expect them to live a long life. It is just at that age, it may be harder to find out if they have an illness that is undetectable. I have had well over 20 dogs in the 20 years that I have lived. Most of them we got as adult dogs, and a few as puppies. Growning up, we always had atleast 2 dogs at a time, once we even had 5 at once. So I know a bit about what can happen.
All I am trying to say, just because you adopt a puppy, doesn't gaurantee that it is going to live atleast 13 years. I don't appreciate how you twist peoples word around and call them irresponsible. It is slightly childish.
Expecting to get a dog that will live as long as you want is fine, but you have to realize, anything could happen. It could get hit, get attacked, ar fall seriously ill. It all has happend to me.
I will tell you of another story where my 9 month old samoya died. My grandpa had bought him for me when I was 9 years old. We had a large fenced in area that he we put him in during the day. One day, he managed to get out of his fence, went into the woods, we found him that same day, with a chunck of his rear missing. He had gotten into a fight with a bear. We didn't expect that.
We also had another dog, I can't remeber much of him, I was only about 3 or 4 when we had him. But he lived to be 18 years old.
What I was trying to get across was, YOU CAN NOT SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE HE IS IN YOUR CARE, THAT SOMETHING WILL NOT HAPPEN, AND THAT HE WILL LIVE TO BE ATLEAST 13 YEARS OLD. Things happen.
I could sit here and tell you ove every way that my dogs have died. Most of them were accidents, and could not have been prevented. Like my spaniel being hit by the school bus, or the samoya being attacked by a bear.
We all know that there are plenty of senior dogs at shelters. But what about the plenty of young dogs that die every year. It is my belief that the odds of getting a dog that will live a long life are just as equal to getting one that may live a short life. It is what I have seen. And it doesn't always depend on how well you care for a dog. More times than not, it isn't the owner's fault for the death of a pet.

raingirl
October 12th, 2004, 02:42 PM
there are 4 Golden breeders in BC, one in surrey, and three in aldercrove (from the Golden Retreiver club of canada)

There are some sheltie ones...but can't find them right now.

jackieb
October 12th, 2004, 02:44 PM
and if a breeder does have extra dogs they are not a responsible breeder if they give them away to a rescue most good breeders will have waiting lists they will not need to advertise and would certainly not give them away.

Lucky Rescue
October 12th, 2004, 02:44 PM
You ask about waiting lists. REPUTABLE breeders do not pump out puppies for profit. They only breed when they need a new dog to show and breed.

This type of breeder is sought after by people who want a puppy from someone who shows, titles and health tests their dogs. Since these breeder do not often breed, people will ask to be put on a waiting list for the next breeding.
Also good breeders like this will take back any puppies that new owners can't keep for whatever reason. They may sometimes have an older puppy for sale.

You can contact the Golden Retriever Club of BC to ask for recommendations as to a good breeder.

Golden Retriever club of BC (http://www.grcbc.org/code_of_ethics.htm#sales)

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 02:47 PM
Once again, people like to blame responsibilities into other areas to make themselves feel better...

When a schoolbux ran over your dog, don't tell me you couldn't of prevent that... That just shows how irresponsible you are. YOU COULD OF PREVENTED THAT if you were more careful... Have him on leash, don't cross traffic when theres car moving... As for the bear incident, thats really unfortunate but also preventable. If you had checked those fences and made sure you knew that there are bears in woods and that there is a possibility, you shouldn't of let him out alone in the backyard in case of him escaping into the woods.

It's called being smart, I am sick and tired of people trying to act all civil and blaming their mistakes and irresponsibility for accidents on "inevitability" don't feed me with that garbage. Just because you aren't smart enough, don't give you the right to pull down other people who use their brain to think of consequences. You're saying that I can't prevent, what gives you the right to say that? You say that because you think you're above me, so if you got into accident, theres no way someone else could prevent it. Igorance is bliss. I've only got a couple of constructive response from some of you, and I thank those who try to help.

Others who just analyze my words and pick bones in eggs, I feel sorry for you. Stop deluding yourself thinking that it wasn't your fault for the accident, because it is. You have a brain, your dog don't have a brain as developed as you. You should use your brain for him or her. it's that simple, be smart, stop blaming your mental error calculation on fate. You shape your own fate, what you do today reflects tomorrow. That applies to your animal as well, what you do today for him, reflects his tomorrow.

Stop being so paranoid and obsessive with jealousy. You don't like how I am confident about my own abilities? What are you? jealous? You should be happy that I am confident and happy for any animal I take care of. I didn't came in here to act like all superior and put down people.

Some of you just pick my words and asked for a debate.

Peace...

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 02:51 PM
You ask about waiting lists. REPUTABLE breeders do not pump out puppies for profit. They only breed when they need a new dog to show and breed.

This type of breeder is sought after by people who want a puppy from someone who shows, titles and health tests their dogs. Since these breeder do not often breed, people will ask to be put on a waiting list for the next breeding.
Also good breeders like this will take back any puppies that new owners can't keep for whatever reason. They may sometimes have an older puppy for sale.

You can contact the Golden Retriever Club of BC to ask for recommendations as to a good breeder.

Golden Retriever club of BC (http://www.grcbc.org/code_of_ethics.htm#sales)

Thank you for all your help.
Really I thank those who tried to help.

Thank you.

Have a nice day.

jackieb
October 12th, 2004, 02:54 PM
spring unfortunately sometimes in life accidents happen through no ones fault yes you seem to have done alot of research and would give a dog a great home no doubt but there are sometimes things dogs humans get which are way out of our control.

Anyhow keep an eye out in your shelters and on petfinder they have a classified section too and all breeders will charge you for a dog fact as it cost them to produce this dog.

mastifflover
October 12th, 2004, 02:57 PM
You sound like you have done plenty of research and accidents do happen but that is not a point I feel like debating. But if you contact the Golden Retriever and Sheltie breed clubs they could help point you to reputable breeders. I know reputable breeders who have shipped dogs to Mexico and South America. These breeders have a waiting list for there dogs as most good breeders do. They only breed to improve the breed and yes some do make some money on them but that is not there sole reason for doing it. I still would not forget rescue and just keep looking you will find the right dog.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 03:12 PM
I guess those who have tragically lost dogs at young ages to cancer, bloat, megaesophagus, crippling hip dysplasia and all kinds of other ailments should blame themselves too. Good luck with trying a rescue, I only hope you reveal your true colors to them as well.

lilpaws
October 12th, 2004, 03:16 PM
You commented that no one has suggested how to find your "perfect dog". Before I go on about how I rescued a 5yr old yellow lab X, who is the best dog/friend/companion anyone could ever ask for, I would suggest looking up as many breeders for Goldies as you can and start researching the good from the cruel...

Okay, I am so fortunate as we adopted "Ami" and I wish she could tell me her story. She is wonderful and gentle and very loving, housetrained, spayed, beautiful... So, on that note, maybe you could reconsider a rescue? They deserve good homes too! Just keep looking until you find the right friend. It took me over 20 visits to the SPCA and pound to find her.

Also, relax a little! I think everyone is trying to help, but no offence some of your comments do come across as a bit insulting and arrogant. People here love their animals as family and no one likes the suggestion that their situation isn't as good as yours.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 03:22 PM
I guess those who have tragically lost dogs at young ages to cancer, bloat, megaesophagus, crippling hip dysplasia and all kinds of other ailments should blame themselves too. Good luck with trying a rescue, I only hope you reveal your true colors to them as well.

True colors? If you say thats true colors then you must be blind.

You came here to bash me and suggested that I am stupid and you are superior.

Thats enough for me to see your "true colors"

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 03:24 PM
You commented that no one has suggested how to find your "perfect dog". Before I go on about how I rescued a 5yr old yellow lab X, who is the best dog/friend/companion anyone could ever ask for, I would suggest looking up as many breeders for Goldies as you can and start researching the good from the cruel...

Okay, I am so fortunate as we adopted "Ami" and I wish she could tell me her story. She is wonderful and gentle and very loving, housetrained, spayed, beautiful... So, on that note, maybe you could reconsider a rescue? They deserve good homes too! Just keep looking until you find the right friend. It took me over 20 visits to the SPCA and pound to find her.

Also, relax a little! I think everyone is trying to help, but no offence some of your comments do come across as a bit insulting and arrogant. People here love their animals as family and no one likes the suggestion that their situation isn't as good as yours.

I tried to be nice, but some people just bash me due to personal jealousy. It's not my problem that they don't likethe fact that my situation is better than theirs. I'm just stating a fact, did I act like "oh look at me im so good, i am the best you are garbage?" Nope, certainly not. Read all my post, most of them are very polite, some people just kept picking on some of the facts I stated on my situation and didn't feel good about it and started attacked me uncontrollably. I got fed up with it and defended myself. That's all. To people who don't attack me, I never attack them back.

I think I'm being really fair.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 03:28 PM
There is nothing to be jealous about - you don't have a grasp on reality and are nasty about it. Why be jealous - and how is your situation better than anyone else's?

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Look people, I didn't mean nay offense at all, some of you due to your personal situation don't seem to like my situation and perceived things the wrong way.

Read every single most and see how many of my post in this topic are insults and compare to the ones you post. I can say some of you, 90- 100 percent of your post in this thread are all negative remarks/insults. while my negativity is only a couple of post out of my 20's of post...

Anyway, I thank you all again, for those who really tried to help.

For those who started bashing me, I think you need to someone to talk to, you have a deep scar and you don't like the fact that someone can do better than you. Just because you had an unfortunate incident doesn't mean everyone would experience that as well.

Please relax.

This is my last post.

peace out. Thanks.

P.S LL1 what is reality? can you tell me? Not even you will know, if you know you're just lying to yourself... You live in a dream, reality is not something you can call "you dont live in reality"

Grow up.
my situation is better than anyone elses is not SOMETHING I SAID. It's what the reader perceived, thats what the above poster said. Read what he said about me.

once again ll1, the post you made below is another example. When I said that, "it's not my problem that my siutation is better than theirs" as a direct REPLY to what the poster said about my situation. It's what YOU perceived it and it's not my problem that you perceive it that way. Why dont you stop picking on my words and analyze it even more huh?

You must be really bored, I feel sorry for you.

LOL
ok im out.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 03:37 PM
You're mistaken, what you said was:

It's not my problem that they don't likethe fact that my situation is better than theirs.

Spring
October 12th, 2004, 04:13 PM
LL1, come to think of it, you remind me of the person from this thread.

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=6806

I recall that you operate a rescue?

You're the reason why people turn to puppymill, you keep bashing them when they're trying to help out and adopt a pet. All these post you have made, none of them were intended to help me find what I am looking for, how can you consider yourself a rescue? All you do is bashing me and pick bones in eggs.

Seriously I hope you're not a rescue worker, or I would feel sorry for all the pet that you "take care of" whenever they have problems you're just going to blame it on genetics, and whenever they make little mistakes, you're just going to analyze it deeply and bash them. You do that to a human who is seeking for help in helping the animals that you supposedly take care of.

Don't be hypercritical.
You ruin my day.
May all animals be free from you.
Good bye forever.

LL1
October 12th, 2004, 04:16 PM
I guess you were not telling the truth:

This is my last post.

lilith_rizel
October 12th, 2004, 05:56 PM
I have know idea where she is getting that we are bashing here. From evey post I have read and posted, we are all just saying that you can't garantee that a dog, puppy or adult, will live a long life. I think her criteria for the perfect dog, will be hard to get. Only God knows how long a pet will live. (Sorry if comment offends people of different religion) I really think that she is getting eveyone's comments all wrong. And in return insulting and offending may of us by basically saying she is a better care provider for an animal. I know some of you an here, and just from talking with you, you seem to be wonderful care providers. And my puppy I have right now, couldn't be anywhere better than here. You can check his pet site. His name is Cano. He gets treats every day, and a new toy each month. And he also gets 2 or 3 hours of playtime outside, plus another hour inside everyday. He pretty much gets to do what he wants when he wants, as long as he has been good. And I am sure that it how it is with the rest of you on here. I
I just wish she would calm down and re-read everything on here, and try to look at it from our view points.
Anyways, enough of my rambling, I hope you all enjoy the time with your pets, no matter how long they live. And cherish every moment with them like it would be your last. In the long run, both you and your pet will be happpier. Trust me. It is how I treat my puppy, because I never do know when God will take him away from me.

heidiho
October 12th, 2004, 06:18 PM
What i dont get is she says she wants a perfect healthy puppy,doesnt believe in going to a puppy mill where for the most part they all usually have health issues,BUT will go there if she has no other choice,Yeah whatever,

lilith_rizel
October 12th, 2004, 06:23 PM
I think that she needs more time to think about it.

Delirium
October 12th, 2004, 06:34 PM
There is no guarantee on life for people or pets. Many people who are in the best of health pass away suddenly. The same goes for dogs. It was just their "time". Also, many people who live healthy, cautious lives, die young. The same goes for dogs. Again, just their "time".

So while its great that you want to provide a home for a dog, i'm concerned that your expectations aren't realistic. Are you aware that these sort of things can happen? Just make sure you're prepared.

One can prevent accidents by being diligent. However, sometimes accidents are just tragic and happen through no fault of your own. Sometimes at the fault of others but then sometimes just "because". Think of that lovely part of your house insurance that talks about "Acts of God". Not overtly relevant but it sort of touches on what i'm getting at.

Things just happen. There is no guarantee in life but that we will be born and that we will die. Same goes for four legged critters.

As for puppies, my opinion is that they do not guarantee nor even assist with what you are looking for. Perhaps an older dog that is already proved out to be free of genetic disorder? For example, a 2-4 year old that is already well into its teenage years and you already kind of know what its going to turn out like? That actually may help you "weed" out some of things that you can't prevent. Although you'll never be able to know for sure, no matter what you get. Life is a gamble.

As for adopting, puppy or not, i'd focus on petfinder.com. You need to have patience. One such dog may not be out there available right now. However, 6 months down the road, they may be. You say you've done alot of research which is great. So i'm assuming that you're willing to wait for the right one?

Let us know.

Dee

glasslass
October 12th, 2004, 07:32 PM
I honestly don't think that anyone was trying to bash her. Realistically, you can't live in a glass bubble. And, even if you did, things happen. This isn't a Nazi Germany breeding program where you breed "pure" and therefore attain a master race. Pobody's nerfect! I almost wonder what would happen to a dog living under those rigid expectations. If the training is "perfect", but the dog doesn't respond "perfectly"? :confused:

lilith_rizel
October 12th, 2004, 07:39 PM
I know, I wake up everyday wondering how long my puppy will be with me, and he is in perfect health, as far as we, and the vets know. But who is to say, he might not run out the door one day, while I am taking a bag of trash out, and get hit by a car, or when another dog may be running loose when my dog is on his chain, enjoying the outdoors, and get attacked. When he is outside. I try to check on him every half an hour, just to make sure he is ok, still has water and food, and to see if he wants to come in yet. Call me paranoid, but he's my baby, and I love him just like I would my child. Like I said, you can't say when your pet will die, only God can.

lilith_rizel
October 12th, 2004, 08:28 PM
Spring, I think you have some serious problems. You obviously have never raised a child before or you wouldn't be saying that you have total control over your pets. And not acknowledging that they have a mind of their own and can cause some mischief and get themselves into trouble is a discredit and an insult to all animals and I don't appreciate that fact that you view them as stupid beasts. I also don't appreciate the way you think that you can box your pet inside all the time like he's some sort of medical experiment rather than an extention of your family. Stuff happens in life that is beyond your control and has absolutely nothing to do with your "irresponsibility". You starting this post just to start arguements was unnecessary. Maybe people don't want to talk to you at home anymore which would make sense to me. It sound like you have some sort of Nazi-complex or something where you think you can prevent death because you're better than everybody else and your not. I think you should seek psychological help and should not get a pet for their sake. If you think that you are the one who determines how long an animal lives I think you really need to have a talk to your creator about that. Maybe you will get some answers there because you refuse to listen to people that are just trying to save you from disappoinment.

heidiho
October 13th, 2004, 11:23 AM
Glasslass you are right,i wouldnt want to be the dog in that house,would be very hard to live up to.....

lilpaws
October 13th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Not that I think we have NO control in life and leave all to fate, Spring - I think it might be a good idea to rethink your decision. I agree with the other posts here (and raising 2 boys ages 5 & 6), we just do our best to make good decisions in life. If I could have guarantees that my children would live to 80 in human years without health problems and no accidents (now that is funny having boys) I would be estatic!!! Not to insult you but it does sound as if you have little real experience in dog ownership (read alot - I quote). Try not to expect too much, do people ever make mistakes? Get into trouble? Have temper tantrums?... so do dogs!

lilith_rizel
October 13th, 2004, 01:49 PM
That is the truth. Every pet I have ever owned got into trouble, it can't be helped.