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Recommended standalone Chondroitin Sulfate supplement?

tjagolf33
May 31st, 2012, 02:59 PM
Hi! I have a 13 and a half year old black lab with arthritis and muscle wasting in his hind legs. He's otherwise in good health and is still able to get around OK (two to three 25-45 minute walks per day on the beach) albeit slow and somewhat awkward in his movement. He also tends to crouch in the hind legs when standing for an extended period of time, suffers from mild fecal incontinence, and can't do more than a couple stairs. His vet currently has him on Deramaxx, Glyco-flex III, J/D, bi-weekly Adequan, and Metamucil. While he has inarguably benefited from these medications and supplements, I obviously want to make sure there isn't anything additional that could be done to help him. I know that most Glucosamine supplements contain Chondroitin and that the two are said to work well together. I was just wondering whether anyone thinks he could benefit from the addition of Chondroitin supplements to his diet, whether there are any associated risks or potential negative interactions with his current regiment, and where I could find a good standalone Chondroitin supplement (it seems almost everywhere only sells combination supplements). Nothing he is currently on appears to contain Chondroitin. Thanks for the help!

MaxaLisa
May 31st, 2012, 03:25 PM
Just throwing some ideas out.....

Sometimes combination supplements are helpful. I used to give my old girl glycoflex combined with cosequin, combined with oral hyaluronic acid (Jarrow capsules). There are other supplements out there, springtime makes some that folks really like, but don't do well with allergy dogs.

For the NSAID, I would have have the dog on liver support, something like Country Life's "Liver Support Factors".

You might try some of the alternatives to the Deramaxx, which often work just as well, sometimes even better. These would include things like proteolytic enzymes, or combinations of things like bromelain, curcumin, boswellia, yucca.

I used to give the Adequan injections every 3 weeks at home. If I gave them less frequently, my boy had more symptoms.

It really is a lot of trial and error to see what works best for you dog. Good luck, seniors are great :lovestruck:

tjagolf33
May 31st, 2012, 05:40 PM
Thanks for the input, MaxaLisa! I didn't know supplements could be combined in that way--is there not the risk of giving too much Glucosamine with 2 Glucosamine supplements? If not, that sounds like a great idea. As far as Deramaxx goes, I'll definitely look into those liver support drugs. My vet checks his liver/kidneys or whatever every couple months to ensure the Deramaxx isn't having a negative effect on him. Having said that, on the few days when he has for whatever reason had to go without his Deramaxx (i.e. ran out and vet's office was closed), he has been noticeably uncomfortable and less mobile. I'm therefore hesitant to try him on other things in place of the Deramaxx because it does seem to help him so much and I'm afraid that the interim period of trying other things would be painful to him. From what I've read NSAIDs like Deramaxx are OK most of the time if he's closely monitored... Is that accurate? Obviously if damage to his liver were guaranteed it wouldn't be worth it. Do you think I have anything to worry about if he keeps having blood tests and perhaps I start him on that liver support medication? Oh, and as far as Adequan goes, I DEFINITELY notice a difference with that as well. He had in fact had a rough month last April and the vet recommended increasing his Adequan frequency to every other week (from once a month). Since then, he's been doing significantly better believe it or not. I do however have the vet administer the shots rather than doing so myself because I'm personally uncomfortable doing it.

Barkingdog
May 31st, 2012, 08:02 PM
Hi! I have a 13 and a half year old black lab with arthritis and muscle wasting in his hind legs. He's otherwise in good health and is still able to get around OK (two to three 25-45 minute walks per day on the beach) albeit slow and somewhat awkward in his movement. He also tends to crouch in the hind legs when standing for an extended period of time, suffers from mild fecal incontinence, and can't do more than a couple stairs. His vet currently has him on Deramaxx, Glyco-flex III, J/D, bi-weekly Adequan, and Metamucil. While he has inarguably benefited from these medications and supplements, I obviously want to make sure there isn't anything additional that could be done to help him. I know that most Glucosamine supplements contain Chondroitin and that the two are said to work well together. I was just wondering whether anyone thinks he could benefit from the addition of Chondroitin supplements to his diet, whether there are any associated risks or potential negative interactions with his current regiment, and where I could find a good standalone Chondroitin supplement (it seems almost everywhere only sells combination supplements). Nothing he is currently on appears to contain Chondroitin. Thanks for the help!

Have you thought of bring your dog to swim? My Standard Poodle had the same problem and my vet suggested having my dog swim to help build up his muscles . There was one bigger problem my dog did not like to swim.

Longblades
May 31st, 2012, 08:59 PM
Thanks for the input, MaxaLisa! I didn't know supplements could be combined in that way--is there not the risk of giving too much Glucosamine with 2 Glucosamine supplements? If not, that sounds like a great idea. As far as Deramaxx goes, I'll definitely look into those liver support drugs. My vet checks his liver/kidneys or whatever every couple months to ensure the Deramaxx isn't having a negative effect on him. Having said that, on the few days when he has for whatever reason had to go without his Deramaxx (i.e. ran out and vet's office was closed), he has been noticeably uncomfortable and less mobile. I'm therefore hesitant to try him on other things in place of the Deramaxx because it does seem to help him so much and I'm afraid that the interim period of trying other things would be painful to him. From what I've read NSAIDs like Deramaxx are OK most of the time if he's closely monitored... Is that accurate? Obviously if damage to his liver were guaranteed it wouldn't be worth it. Do you think I have anything to worry about if he keeps having blood tests and perhaps I start him on that liver support medication? Oh, and as far as Adequan goes, I DEFINITELY notice a difference with that as well. He had in fact had a rough month last April and the vet recommended increasing his Adequan frequency to every other week (from once a month). Since then, he's been doing significantly better believe it or not. I do however have the vet administer the shots rather than doing so myself because I'm personally uncomfortable doing it.At this stage I don't want to sound like I'm judging your choices but having had a Lab with very similar ailments in her old age I would like to comment on the part I bolded. For me, I would sacrifice the liver for freedom from pain. My girl was on Dextabs (same thing only the Canadian name? Not sure) and in her last months I moved her onto something very strong that I knew would "toast her kidneys" as my breeder put it. We were perhaps the pain threshold your fellow is at because we were beyond cartrophen injections, they did nothing but had worked well earlier for minor arthritis.

It's so hard when they get older. Good luck to you and treasure every moment you have.

tjagolf33
June 1st, 2012, 12:28 AM
Have you thought of bring your dog to swim? My Standard Poodle had the same problem and my vet suggested having my dog swim to help build up his muscles . There was one bigger problem my dog did not like to swim.

Try as we might, we've never been able to get him to swim. He's a freaking lab, but all he's ever been willing to do is walk around up to his neck (which he loves, by the way). Go figure!

At this stage I don't want to sound like I'm judging your choices but having had a Lab with very similar ailments in her old age I would like to comment on the part I bolded. For me, I would sacrifice the liver for freedom from pain. My girl was on Dextabs (same thing only the Canadian name? Not sure) and in her last months I moved her onto something very strong that I knew would "toast her kidneys" as my breeder put it. We were perhaps the pain threshold your fellow is at because we were beyond cartrophen injections, they did nothing but had worked well earlier for minor arthritis.

It's so hard when they get older. Good luck to you and treasure every moment you have.

True, which is why we do it. Having said that, I'd more aggressively attempt to try him on alternatives if having him on Deramaxx was a surefire path to "toasting [his] kidneys" as you said. But my understanding is that it is not, correct? He's been on it for more than a year now with no problems...

By the way, his dosage is 50mg per day (weighs 62 lbs).

tjagolf33
June 1st, 2012, 03:11 AM
Another couple questions. I have always given him 2 Glyco-Flex tablets once per day, but recently read the label and discovered you're recommended to give them one twice per day. Does this really matter? My vet says no, and I tried giving it to him that way a couple times but it seemed like he was weaker on those days (though that may have been mind over matter on my part, considering it's a supplement and doesn't work that quickly, right?).

Also, I'm reading that Cartrophen isn't available in the US. Is that accurate?

Thanks again.

Longblades
June 1st, 2012, 09:44 AM
I think Adequan is the name for, or the equivalent of, Cartrophen Vet.

As for collateral damage with medications, there is no guarantee either way. Prednisone is one dreaded by most but we dosed it to our ESS for 7 years with none of the many reported side effects. That's what makes these decisons so hard. It's not "if p then q" It's "if p, maybe q, maybe not q." sometimes "maybe" is "most commonly."

tjagolf33
June 1st, 2012, 12:38 PM
Similar but different, according to here: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=533387&pagen=1

Barkingdog
June 2nd, 2012, 12:14 PM
Try as we might, we've never been able to get him to swim. He's a freaking lab, but all he's ever been willing to do is walk around up to his neck (which he loves, by the way). Go figure!



True, which is why we do it. Having said that, I'd more aggressively attempt to try him on alternatives if having him on Deramaxx was a surefire path to "toasting [his] kidneys" as you said. But my understanding is that it is not, correct? He's been on it for more than a year now with no problems...

By the way, his dosage is 50mg per day (weighs 62 lbs).

My dog was a Standard Poodle and poodle mean 'puddle' . My dog would only go in the ocean to get his paws wet. When I threw his ball in a pond Finlay would wait for another dog to get his ball for him. The other dog was most of the time a lab. It made you feel better , I knew a duck that hated going into water. We had to put him into pool as he was so dirty. The other ducks loved using the pool.

piarevigliono
July 10th, 2012, 01:57 PM
Hi! I have a 13 and a half year old black lab with arthritis and muscle wasting in his hind legs. He's otherwise in good health and is still able to get around OK (two to three 25-45 minute walks per day on the beach) albeit slow and somewhat awkward in his movement. He also tends to crouch in the hind legs when standing for an extended period of time, suffers from mild fecal incontinence, and can't do more than a couple stairs. His vet currently has him on Deramaxx, Glyco-flex III, J/D, bi-weekly Adequan, and Metamucil. While he has inarguably benefited from these medications and supplements, I obviously want to make sure there isn't anything additional that could be done to help him. I know that most Glucosamine supplements contain Chondroitin and that the two are said to work well together. I was just wondering whether anyone thinks he could benefit from the addition of Chondroitin supplements to his diet, whether there are any associated risks or potential negative interactions with his current regiment, and where I could find a good standalone Chondroitin supplement (it seems almost everywhere only sells combination supplements). Nothing he is currently on appears to contain Chondroitin. Thanks for the help!


HI!, Have you tried ChondroPaw?.They are big for hip dysplasia, arthritis and joint pain in dogs. Chondropaw is oral PSGAG (mainly Chondroitin) and homeophatic plants. Is 100% natural. I have tried Chondropaw on my 9 year old boxer with joint pain and signs of arthritis and it worked in less than 2 months!. The have many videos sent by customers where they track the progress of their dogs under chondropaw. Very interesting to see.
Here is their website: http://www.chondropaw.com