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Thoughts on these ingredients?

Rgeurts
March 1st, 2012, 01:31 PM
We have Nookie back on THK but are trying to find a kibble he can tolerate to supplement his feeding. Dr. Marsden said the big poos on the THK are ok because it has a lot of fibre, so it isn't harming him at all as long as he isn't allergic to anything in it (we're still trying to figure out the itchies). BUT... when we travel, it's too hard trying to get hotels with a kitchen where I can cook the meat for him, so a kibble for traveling would be ideal. This is one we're considering trying. It's has very limited ingredients and gets great reviews for dogs with sensitivities and allergies:


Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (Naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Smoked Salmon, Dried Blueberries, Dried Cranberries, Dried Raspberries, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Kelp Meal, Flaxseed Meal, Calcium Propionate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacin (Vitamin B3), D-Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B5), Thiamine (Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Supplement, Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6), Biotin (Vitamin B7), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein - (min) 24%
Crude Fat - (min) 13%
Crude Fibre - (max) 4%
Moisture - (max) 10%

Typical Analysis:
Calcium - 2.5%
Phosphorus - 1.5%
Sodium - 1.0%

Caloric Content 3600 kcal/kg

I'm ok with potato as the second ingredient. Nookie is the kind of dog that has to have the carbs to maintain his weight. And we're thinking the lower protein may be a better option for him due to his EPI. It's Tripsyn that he's deficient in, and that's the enzyme that breaks down protein. Grains were doing awesome for him, but we think those may be contributing to the itchies. I know he has been great on potato, so hopefully I'm not missing something bad in the ingredient list! If I am, please point it out :)

Thanks!! :D

Winston
March 1st, 2012, 02:10 PM
Rguerts have you looked at the Blue Buffalo Brands? Here is a link to the food. If you scroll down the page they do have some that are grain free and also some they call "Wilderness" that may work for your boy???

http://bluebuffalo.com/dry-dog-food

Rgeurts
March 1st, 2012, 02:28 PM
Rguerts have you looked at the Blue Buffalo Brands? Here is a link to the food. If you scroll down the page they do have some that are grain free and also some they call "Wilderness" that may work for your boy???

http://bluebuffalo.com/dry-dog-food

Hi Winston :)

I wouldn't touch Blue Buffalo. They import ingredients from China, and Nookie and Thorin actually got very sick from it. The first time I decided to try their products, it was back in 2010 and it was the Health bars. Both Nookie and Thorin got really sick (diarrhea, throwing up etc.). Then I saw on here that Blue Buffalo had a recall, so I went to the FDA website, and sure enough, it was on the exact 2 items that I bought!! I took them both to the vet and talked to Dr. Stelfox. She said they hadn't eaten enough to do any permanent damage, but the small amount they did have was enough to make em sick. So we watched em for a few days and had em both on metronidazole. I won't use anything that imports ingredients from China. But thank you for taking the time to respond!!! :grouphug:

Winston
March 1st, 2012, 02:40 PM
No worries...I have not tried it but I do know of a few folks that love it...Having said that they probably dont know about the recalls.

I really hope you find something that works for your boy!! :thumbs up

Rgeurts
March 1st, 2012, 02:44 PM
Thank you, Winston... I do too! I'm hoping this will be a good choice. We've done A LOT of research. This is a Holisitic food, and even though it's still a kibble, I'm hoping it will be ok for him. This company also does dehydrated and canned and specialize in novel proteins like Kangaroo and Bushtail for the Hypoallergenic lines. I just don't know if I'm over-looking a bad ingredient in the vitamins/minerals hehe. All the reviews and testimonials I've read are good though :)

It's called Addiction-Salmon Bleu

http://www.addictionfoods.com/canada/prod_dog_salmon.php

Rgeurts
March 1st, 2012, 02:51 PM
Here's an old post from spottydog. It looks encouraging!!

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=59704

pbpatti
March 1st, 2012, 08:50 PM
Hi Robyn, I sure hope that you can find something to feed your fur-boys. This product looks pretty good to me, guess only though to do is to try it and see how Nanook and Thorin does on it.

breeze
March 2nd, 2012, 10:13 AM
correct me if I'm wrong please
but you said that Nookie does not tolerate chicken am I right??
then shouldn't you look for a kibble without chicken fat??

I know Bree can eat chicken but can't tolerate chicken fat, so her kibble has connola sp? oil instead..

Rgeurts
March 2nd, 2012, 11:37 AM
Hi Breeze! We don't know if he has an allergy to chicken, or just an intolerance, but it is definitely one of them. However, I've done a lot of research and reading different ingredient labels. Most of the high quality holistic foods that are rated as hypoallergenic do have chicken fat, which confused the hell out of me. I was thinking if they are providing this food for dogs with beef/chicken/lamb allergies, why do they use chicken fat?!? Apparently, most allergies/intolerance to chicken stems from the protein. Chicken fat is rendered and there is no protein in it, so it's supposed to be ok in food for dogs with chicken allergies. Thorin is the same as yours though. He can handle the chicken, but not the fat.

Nookie was on a vet food, salmon and potato, the first summer we had him. It had chicken fat also, but he was fine on it. We just took him off it and started home cooking because the ingredients were awful. I think we're going to give this one a try. I'm going to start by just using it as treats and slowly increase the amount over several days. If he's going to have a reaction to it, allergy would be immediate (within the first day) and intolerance (gastric), would be within 2-4 days, which is what happened on the Carna4. I think it's a great food, just not for dogs who can't eat chicken. And unfortunately, that's all they offer at this time. And for $190 for a 26 LB bag, I was extremely disappointed.

Longblades
March 2nd, 2012, 08:16 PM
I would be concerned with the "holistic" claim. As far as my research has been able to show there is no legal definition of what constitutes "holistic." It's marketing hype anyone can use. Because of that those foods that may indeed be good cannot be distinguished from those that are not since both may use the word. "Premium" is a similar word used in pet foods.

That said the ingredients are very much like those in a food I feed. Your possible food is too low in protein, fat and kcal for my dog but a less active dog might be okay with it.

Rgeurts
March 2nd, 2012, 10:39 PM
Thanks Longblades. Trying to find a food for him has been so difficult, and there are SO many, it's very confusing! The protein is definitely low, and he's a pretty active dog. But it seems like the really high protein foods (30% and above) just give him constant diarrhea. Have you had any experience with EPI dogs? And which one do you feed?

Longblades
March 3rd, 2012, 09:56 AM
Thanks Longblades. Trying to find a food for him has been so difficult, and there are SO many, it's very confusing! The protein is definitely low, and he's a pretty active dog. But it seems like the really high protein foods (30% and above) just give him constant diarrhea. Have you had any experience with EPI dogs? And which one do you feed?

No, no EPI. I just wanted to point out that the word "holistic" is not a guarantee of quality. I'm sorry it's so tough to find a food that works. It's painful to see our pets suffer from the very things we feed them. You may have seen some of my Sadie-cat posts about our cat problems.

TokyoParrot
March 3rd, 2012, 12:15 PM
I would be most worried about the high content of salmon in the food you mentioned.

I assume it's farmed salmon and farmed salmon is becoming increasingly regarded by many as not fit, or only barely fit, for repeated human consumption ("no more than half a meal per month"), and I personally won't give anything not fit for human consumption *from the viewpoint of toxicity* to my dogs.

(I have no problem with giving my animals *lower grade* meat cuttings, for example, or the discarded portions of fish. But when something is deemed unfit for reasons of *toxicity* (mercury content, PCB content, etc.), then I won't feed that to my animals.)

You can find all sorts of articles on the dangers of farmed salmon on the web, but here's one for starters:
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA324437

Obviously other people will have different opinions on that, but I'm just mentioning it as something to think about. I personally avoid all tuna products, farmed salmon, and shark meat (which I raised my kids on at least twice a week back in the day-- delicious!).

I do make exceptions for my end-of-life animals. Any of my animals 17 years of age or older (OR younger but clearly end-of-life) can eat anything they want, as they'll be deceased before the PCBs, mercury, Fukushima contamination, etc. have a chance to build up in their systems.

We're possibly more sensitive to PCBs, heavy metal concentrations, etc. over here because we eat such a huge amount of fish, and concerns over toxins/contamination in fish have of course been heightened by the Fukushima accident.

If I were traveling I would probably pack the car with 30 cans of sardines, 30 cans of Bumble Bee mackerel, several packages of raw eggs, and some Urban Wolf or Amazing Grass Wheat Grass or Green Superfood powder (available on Amazon).

Crack the eggs, dump the whites down the drain, use the (raw) yolks only; mix with Wheat Grass powder (which all 12 of my dogs love, so it seems to be tolerated/enjoyed by dogs). Stir in can(s) of sardines and/or mackerel and voila.

Mackerel tests extremely low for toxins, by the way (both in the US and in Japan). Sardines are OK as long as they aren't from Japanese waters, which the ones in your stores shouldn't be.

With your dog's allergies, this might need some advance testing, but I think it will be worth it to avoid toxins in fish, OR to identify in advance that the fish is definitely not toxic.

The benefit to this too is MUCH less poop while you're on the road, compared to feeding kibble! I switched to a high-grade kibble for about 10 days sprinkled throughout January when I was super busy at work, and BOY could I tell the difference in wading through swamps of Chihuahua poop the day after. Low poop would be high on my list of priorities while traveling!

LHetherington
March 6th, 2012, 12:19 PM
Hi Rgeurts,

Sorry to hear Carna4 didn't work out for Nookie. We have had dogs who supposedly had chicken allergies successfully switch to Carna4 but every dog is of course different.

Hope you find a food that works well for your dogs and keeps them healthy.

Best Regards,
Leslie