Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Won't stop play-biting

GsdDiamond
October 7th, 2004, 11:27 AM
Hi Gang!
I have a little problem, well, it's not really MY problem. Terri can't get a minutes peace with Diamond. The minute she's let out of her kennel, Diamond thinks it's play time and mouths/nips at Terri's arms. Nothing she says, or does, seems to make Diamond stop.

She'll take her outside, play with her until Diamond can't stand anymore, bring her in, and it starts all over again. Can't leave her outside by herself because she's discovered the wonderful world of digging! (another story)

Since Terri's working evenings, and I'm on days, there's nothing I can do to help her. I'm the alpha of the family, so I'm guessing Terri has been determined to be "play partner". She'll put a muzzle on her until she calms down, removes it and 2 seconds later....chew chew chew.

She doesn't do this with me. The only time she's allowed to mouth/nip at me is if she wants to show me something.

Does anybody have any advice for poor Terri? She came and saw me at work yesterday, on her way to work, and the amount of red marks is unbelievable.

She'll be 8 months in 2 days, so this has to stop fairly quickly. She's only going to get bigger and stronger as time goes on. Time to nip it in the bud before something more serious happens.

Ling
October 7th, 2004, 11:41 AM
I've been having a similar problem. At first I just tried ignoring her but of course that didn't work, then I tried diverting her attention when she started to nip / bite for play time initiation by making her sit and wait first - and that works for about 30 seconds... but the only thing that I have found so far that has made her dislike putting arms, hands in her mouth is this stuff called Bitter Apple. (I tried std stuff you find in your cupboard first - tobasco sauce, vinegar, lemon juice - but she loved it and licked it all off) Once she sees the bottle of Bitter Apple coming out shes off like lightening and won't dare try to nip or mouth. As long as you don't put it on the palms of your hands you're good to go. (Works on furniture, pant legs, socks, slippers etc too...)

GsdDiamond
October 7th, 2004, 11:46 AM
Yeah. I thought about Bitter Apple. BUT....when we were at the pet store, getting treats and toys, I saw a bottle. I sprayed some on my finger and she licked it off. I put more and she licked that off too! She likes the stuff!!!!

I've tried lemon juice, vinegar, and various other NASTY tasting things. I even made my own concoction out of hot sauce, vinegar and lemon juice in a spray bottle. She drank it! She's a freak!!!

Writing4Fun
October 7th, 2004, 01:55 PM
You've already pinned it. Your better half needs to assert her position in the pack. The way my sister did it with her daughter was she got the daughter to do ALL the feeding. She told her when and how much, but it was very important that the dog saw the food coming from the little girl. Has Diamond been to obedience (sorry if you've mentioned this before, I forget)? I think another good thing would be for Terri to take her so she can learn how to assert her dominance, and the dog will learn that Terri's the one in control. ;) Good luck!

Daizy
October 7th, 2004, 02:20 PM
I have a question re: play biting, my puppy, whom I don't actually have yet (I get her in 2 weeks) play bites when I visit. Should I stop this now(or when I get her) or is it something she will grow out of?

Advice please - Thanks

lilith_rizel
October 7th, 2004, 02:47 PM
I had the same problem with my puppy. He is 8 months old right now. When he would play bite, I would hold his snout, and say "No, bad Cano. No bite" I had to get him to learn fast, because we are having a baby in a few months. It has worked some. There were a few times he got tapped on the nose too. He doesn't like being scolded at all. The best way to teach your pup to behave is to show them who is boss. Have terri firm with him. Have her treat the pup as a low-class of the pack, tell her to act just like a dominant dog. I am not saying she has to crawl on all fours, and attack Diamind, when not behaving, just have her lay down the rules and be persistant. Don't let any misbahavior go, without being corrected. It may take some time. It did with Cano.

May I ask what breed of pup we are looking at? I found out that some pups mature more slowly that others. And may be more puppy-like for a few years.

Good luck with Terri and Diamond!!

GsdDiamond
October 7th, 2004, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the replies.

I just spoke with my other (not necessarily "better" :p ) half on the phone. She told me that the dog doesn't always bite her....it's more just when she wants to play....which is all the time! I guess I just misunderstood.

Just a side note...she can't feed Diamond her food, on weekdays anyways, because she works evenings until 11:30, with overtime pushing her past the 4am mark. So, needless to say, when I get up with Diamond at 6:30am, there's no way Terri can feed her breakfast. :eek: Heck, half the time she doesn't even hear my alarm! And since she starts work at 3:30pm, and supper time is at 5, she can't do dinner either. I guess she really is just a giant chew toy! :D

GsdDiamond
October 7th, 2004, 02:56 PM
I had the same problem with my puppy. He is 8 months old right now. When he would play bite, I would hold his snout, and say "No, bad Cano. No bite" I had to get him to learn fast, because we are having a baby in a few months. It has worked some. There were a few times he got tapped on the nose too. He doesn't like being scolded at all. The best way to teach your pup to behave is to show them who is boss. Have terri firm with him. Have her treat the pup as a low-class of the pack, tell her to act just like a dominant dog. I am not saying she has to crawl on all fours, and attack Diamind, when not behaving, just have her lay down the rules and be persistant. Don't let any misbahavior go, without being corrected. It may take some time. It did with Cano.

May I ask what breed of pup we are looking at? I found out that some pups mature more slowly that others. And may be more puppy-like for a few years.

Good luck with Terri and Diamond!!

She's very good with Diamond. She attended training classes with us, so she knows what's expected of her as far as a leader of the pack goes. Diamond listens, for the most part, to Terri, but will definately listen to me.

She's a purebred GSD.

Mysts38
October 7th, 2004, 04:22 PM
The next time she starts to bite or nip or show dominate behaviour,have Terri put her two arms under the dogs belly and lift the dog up..not high,and just hold the dog there until she calms down...this will allow Terri to show pup that SHE(terri) is higher in the pack than the pup is.

Tell terri to do this each and every time the behaviour starts..if she were the mom,pup would get picked up by the scruff for bad behaviour,and so by terri picking pup up in this manner,,is showing pup that her behaviour will not be tolerated.

Also if Terri can,,its a good idea to get her to feed diamond on weekends the following way.Have terri take diamonds full food bowl and put it on the counter where pup can see it..terri can then hide a snack for HERSELF behind the food bowl..have diamond sit and let terri eat her snack first(making it look like shes taking diamonds food).then when terri is done,she can give diamond the food with the command OK..

Diamond will think that terri is eating her food and so because shes(terri) higher inthe pack..she gets to eat first and diamond has to eat last..

These training tricks do work..but it takes time and persistance

GsdDiamond
October 7th, 2004, 04:57 PM
The next time she starts to bite or nip or show dominate behaviour,have Terri put her two arms under the dogs belly and lift the dog up..not high,and just hold the dog there until she calms down...this will allow Terri to show pup that SHE(terri) is higher in the pack than the pup is.

Tell terri to do this each and every time the behaviour starts..if she were the mom,pup would get picked up by the scruff for bad behaviour,and so by terri picking pup up in this manner,,is showing pup that her behaviour will not be tolerated.

I can see it now...Terri bends over to put her arms under the dog's belly to lift. The dog goes "Ah...mom brought her face closer for me to nip/mouth". You think this'll seriously work? I'll let her know what to do and give her a couple of weeks to master it. Hopefully it does work. I'm starting to feel bad that Terri is ALWAYS being grabbed/mouthed/nipped at. I know for a fact she's getting tired of it.

Also if Terri can,,its a good idea to get her to feed diamond on weekends the following way.Have terri take diamonds full food bowl and put it on the counter where pup can see it..terri can then hide a snack for HERSELF behind the food bowl..have diamond sit and let terri eat her snack first(making it look like shes taking diamonds food).then when terri is done,she can give diamond the food with the command OK.

We did that for the first couple of months after we got Diamond. She definately knows we're the source for food/treats. She was a bit yappy about it for the first little while, then she started to settle down. I agree, that works like a charm to calm a dog. She has total non-agressive tendancies with her food. I can take anything away from her (so can Terri) so she definately knows who the bosses are.

Keep the suggestions coming folks! They're all good!!!

lilith_rizel
October 7th, 2004, 06:03 PM
If she attended classes, then I have no more suggetions. Just keep working with her is all I can say. Good Luck!!!

wAggie
October 8th, 2004, 12:45 AM
sorry, I didnt have a chance to read the replies...

but when Choco used to play bite, and OMG HONEy... well

for Choco, I used to loudly say, "OOOOOOW!" followed with a "No!" and turn away.

for Honey, heh, It was a stern NO in the face, give her the evil eye, and turn away.

she FINALLY learned, OMG... I dont know when it stopped but reading this post, I know she doesnt' do it any more! :D

debanneball
October 8th, 2004, 07:05 AM
Oh GSD, my Stella (almost 11 months...) is exactly like that too. Hubby is one big chew toy. She doesn't hurt him, just bites, nips, plays. However, she does listen to him, not often, but once in a while and will stop playing. Since I am boss, and what I say goes, she doesn't bite me. I am hoping she will grow out of that stage.

:confused: However, my problem is the little dogs that live in the house that backs on to me...how does once stop her from attacking the fence (we have chain link, and then we put up a 6 foot wooden).. I have tried everything, can't stop her, and they just let the little dogs go at the chain link fence and sit there and watch. My fear is that one day they will toss something over, and I don't mean something good either ...

flyingdog
October 15th, 2004, 12:14 PM
Puppies explore their environment with their nose and mouths. Just like babies, puppies will put anything and everything in their mouth: this includes human skin. Puppy biting is done playfully (your puppy is not trying to hurt you). However, those needle-sharp teeth can be very painful! It is important to control their biting before their jaws become strong.

Asserting yourself as pack leader will not help in this situation - it is not about dominace!!!

THE TIME OUT: How to Teach Your Puppy Not to Bite
1. Put your puppy on his leash and position both of you in front of an open door to another room. Initiate play that will cause your puppy to bite you.
2. As soon as your pup’s teeth touch skin or clothing, yelp OUCH! in a loud voice, quickly put the puppy in the other room, and close the door while loosely holding your puppy’s leash on the other side. Please make sure your puppy has enough leash to sit comfortably on the other side of the closed door. In fact, you do not need to apply pressure of any kind.
3. While the time-out should last no longer than 30 seconds, only open the door when your puppy is quiet.
4. After the 30 seconds is up and your puppy is quiet, bring him out and act as if nothing has happened.
5. Re-initiate play with your puppy and as soon as he bites you: repeat the process.

Tara
Flying Dog Training

Spoiled
October 17th, 2004, 05:27 PM
This dog needs to learn who the boss is. When she bites, say "ouch" in a hurt and high tone and then growl "stop that." After a few times of this, I wouldn't take it any more. When she runs and begins to bite I would shove her off and say "stop it" in a loud but firm voice.

CyberKitten
October 17th, 2004, 05:39 PM
Hi,

I think it is a question of teaching the puppy not to bite and not reinforcing the behaviour. Many vets and others suggest not allowing your puppy to bite at all when they are babies. (I have actually had more bunny bites than canine ones but then bunnies, unlike cats, cannot scratch, so they tend to nip if they want attention).

Here is a good explanation of how to prevent biting )he says it so much better than I, lol)

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/bite2.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_18746_stop-puppy-biting.html

Good Luck!

CyberKitten

GsdDiamond
October 18th, 2004, 11:53 PM
Hi,
Thanks for posting!

Diamond thinks of Terri as a giant chew toy. Ouch, pushing her away, time out, nothing works. Feeding her, whenever possible, letting her know play biting isn't acceptable also isn't working.

I'm the only one she listens to but I can't be around all the time. There are times when Terri will have to be by herself with Diamond and that's when the dog knows that she can do whatever she wants. Keeping her kenneled is out of the question as she's getting to that size where it's just mean to leave her in there for any length of time other than for sleeps.

Diamond's now 8 months old and 66 lbs (as of today) and this can't be classified as just exploring with her mouth anymore. This is out and out Diamond being dominant and not listening when told not to bite/nip.

She wasn't allowed to bite on any flesh when she was small. Even the leash was out of bounds when it came/comes to biting. (extension of the human hand and all that) I guess I just showed my "pain" better than the Mrs. did.

I'm open for more suggestions.

moontamara
October 19th, 2004, 12:23 AM
I'm in a similar situation with my husband. I can see why Casey keeps at him, as my husband (very inexperienced with dogs) constantly rewards bad behaviour and fails to notice good behaviour. For example, he comes home and Casey leaps and leaps at him. Some days, he's just touched that Casey is so happy to see him so he gets right down on the floor and plays with him for awhile. Other days, he wants to get out of his work clothes and says, "Casey, no." This doesn't work for several reasons. Casey associates his name with praise, last time the leaping was rewarded, and he sees my husband as a playmate rather than as a master. In my case, my husband is the one who needs training! It's hard when he has to work long hours -- if he gets home late in the evening and the first thing I do is tell him he's handling the dog all wrong... well it isn't a very warm welcome... We're working on it. Fortunately, Casey's a toy poodle and his play bites aren't leaving any marks... but it still is annoying as heck.

Is it possible that your wife (life partner... what's the best term? :love: ) is also rewarding the wrong behaviour?

GsdDiamond
October 19th, 2004, 10:22 AM
Moontamara:
Yeah, it's entirely possible that she may be rewarding the wrong behaviour, as I'm not always around to see what she's doing.
From what I have seen, Diamond will do something wrong, she'll tell her no, and 2 seconds later start playing with her. While, if I catch her doing something wrong, I make her sit there for 10 seconds or so and then give her the release command.
No matter how many times I tell her what to do, she does it her way. What I don't understand is that she's had dogs before. Big a$$ dobies!! From what she tells me, they were wonderfully trained dogs.

Pehaps, when Diamond is a big older, she'll settle down and stop doing this type of thing. I can always hope.

As for what to call us....since we're married women, I guess "wife" would do. Isn't that what a married woman is normally called?
:thumbs up

moontamara
October 19th, 2004, 10:47 AM
Pehaps, when Diamond is a big older, she'll settle down and stop doing this type of thing. I can always hope.

As for what to call us....since we're married women, I guess "wife" would do. Isn't that what a married woman is normally called?
:thumbs up

I'm pretty sure that Casey will get better with time too, whether or not my husband learns the best ways to deal with him. Actually, when he scolds Casey (or ignores him) for bad behaviour, he also forgives WAY too quickly. Ahh well... should settle down in time I hope. :crazy:

And yes, I guess "wife" would do!

I'm so happy for you two, by the way!!! Love is such a wonderful thing and though it defies logic (especially if you're not particularly religious and I'm not), marriage seems to make it all the more wonderful! :love: :love: :love:

GsdDiamond
October 19th, 2004, 10:56 AM
Thanks!

With any luck our too pups will learn to love our loved ones as people, and not toys! :rolleyes: Like that'll ever happen! HA!

Part of me loves the fact Diamond listens to me better, and part of me feels sorry for Terri. Oh well, I guess I'm just luckier than she is...huh? :p