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Animal companions & why “buying” them is brutal ~ graphic images

Love4himies
January 26th, 2012, 08:13 AM
I know many members who are heavily into rescue are no longer here, but I thought this blog was very important and hopefully will change the mind of at least one person thinking of buying a dog or cat:


http://theveganomaly.com/2012/01/25/animal-companions-why-buying-them-is-brutal-an-adopters-manifesto/

Animal companions & why “buying” them is brutal: an adopters’ manifesto

25
JAN
Anna is one of my dearest friends, and she is a hero to animals everywhere. We do lots of things when we’re together. Mostly we eat and then talk about what we just ate. But recently, we wrote this piece on an issue very close to our hearts: companion animals.

What do you call it when someone painlessly ends the life of another who is suffering from an incurable condition (often at the patient’s own request)? Unfortunately, this isn’t the set up to some hilarious joke. What you get, according to the trusty Oxford Dictionary, is euthanasia.

The people who wrote the Oxford Dictionary are probably pretty smart, and they seem to think that euthanasia is killing someone for his or her own good, because death has become a better option than incurable suffering. But we find ourselves a wee bit confused: why do we describe shelters as “euthanizing” healthy animals? That doesn’t sound like euthanasia to us or to the Oxford Dictionary for that matter. That sounds more like killing: to deprive of life or vitality; to put to death; to cause the death of (Oxford, FTW!).

Ever the stalwarts of accurate discussions, we use the word “kill” when we discuss this issue, because that is what we are doing to companion animals. And we hope this doesn’t make you uncomfortable. We’ll leave it to you to speculate as to why the euthanasia euphemism has become so commonplace (but it likely has something to do with the uncontrollable guilt that would come with acknowledging that we kill perfectly healthy animals en masse, despite as a culture claiming to value them).

According to the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies, in 2008:

54% of the cats taken in by shelters were killed.
19% of the dogs taken in by shelters were killed.
But let’s get one thing straight right off the bat: this is not the fault of shelters. By and large, shelters are running on tight budgets, staffed by generous and compassionate volunteers, and doing largely thankless (and emotionally depleting) work that remains invisible to most of us (which is just fine for most people).

Shelters all too often find themselves in a nightmarish predicament of providing shelter for some animals while taking the lives of some other animals, to make room for still other animals. Is there really such a shortage of space for animals, you ask? Consider this: in Toronto alone there are between 100,000 and 300,000 homeless cats, many of whom were dumped on the streets by guardians who lost interest in caring for them. Extrapolate that number out, and you can see that the number of animals in need of homes is so enormous that purposely bringing more animals into existence just to make a buck is, quite literally, insane. Oxford-dictionary-style insane.

If aliens were to come to earth (and decide not to obliterate/colonize us) they’d have some serious questions that we may not have decent answers for. After no doubt expressing disgust at the way we harm and kill animals for food even though we don’t have to, they’d probably say (telepathically of course): “why create more life when there are already so many who need the love and companionship of a human family?” And despite our own demonstrable capacity for intelligence and empathy, most people would seem like absolute fools when we can’t even answer. We’d completely embarrass ourselves in front of the aliens, who would have it confirmed in an instant that not only are we not the smartest beings in the universe, we’re not the most empathetic either.



And before you say, “Well I’m not a breeder, so I’m off the hook!” we’ve got news for you, courtesy of every Economics 101 class that’s ever happened, ever: if you demand it, the market will provide it. That means that if you think it’s acceptable to purchase animals from pet stores or private breeders, some idiot out there will supply your demand. And the opposite is also true. Take a look at Albuquerque, New Mexico, which banned the sale of cats and dogs in 2006. Animal adoptions have increased by 23 per cent, while the rate of animals killed at shelters has decreased by 35 percent.

Let’s break down some of the problems with our system of creating animals, abandoning them in shelters or on the streets, killing them, and then creating more new animals:

Animals aren’t here for us. This is axiomatic. While we mutually enjoy life with companion animals, their actual existence has nothing to do with us.
If we acknowledge that animals don’t exist for us, then we also must acknowledge that it is not our right to choose when they die.
If we acknowledge that because animals don’t exist for us and therefore we shouldn’t have control over when they die, we must also acknowledge that a system that decides how one in every two cats dies, and how one in every five dogs dies, is a flawed system in dire need of a committed, emergency overhaul.
It also illuminates an inconvenient, but unavoidable reality: your superficial want for a Labradoodle is grossly outweighed by the right to live that all animals have. Frankly, it’s just too damn bad for you.

Oh, and it’s also too damn bad for the “responsible breeder” (hereby dubbed the ‘responsibreeder’). Why aren’t we more empathetic to the well-intentioned responsibreeder, you ask? Truth bomb: The responsibreeder is fictitious. Non-existent. Think Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster or that sister you invented to get out of office work parties. There is no such thing as a responsibreeder, as the very definition of “responsible” means “having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, part of one’s job or role”. If we consider notions of responsibility on a community level (as we ought to), then the only responsible breeder is a breeder who is not breeding.

OK, so you’ve read this far. And you may even be in a position of wanting to bring home a new furry family member. Before heading out to meet Sandy, who owns the certified-accredited-organic-fair-trade-gluten-free-pedigreed Sunny Oakridge Autumn Harvest Labralove Kennel, we dare you to Google your local animal shelter or humane society and check out all the wonderful individuals who are literally waiting for their second chance.

If even after looking into the eyes of an animal who may be sentenced to an unnecessary death (read: killed), you choose to purchase an animal from Sandy, the charismatic responsibreeder (who assures you she’s doing it for the love of dogs), there’s not much we can do. But one thing we can say with absolute certainty is that you are not an animal lover. You’re an animal collector.



And for those of us who opt out of the canine version of Toddlers and Tiaras, remember that there is always an animal out there who is wonderful and who needs a home. Your home. You can be a total superhero for that animal. As for what we, as animal advocates, can do, this is some stuff we prioritize:

Fix your companions! There is no excuse. By understanding there are more animals already than there are people willing to adopt, fixing your companion will ensure you’re not contributing to their already staggering population.
Don’t reward superficial people with superficial comments! One thing we always try to keep in mind is that people who purchase dogs do so in large part because of the dogs’ aesthetic qualities (their squished faces, for example). We make a point of never dwelling on an obviously purebred feature (especially once that compromises the animal’s wellbeing) when talking to their humans because we feel like doing so validates the humans’ decision to buy instead of adopt. That doesn’t mean we are not super tender with the actual animals, we just refuse to reward their human companions for shallowness. (As one reader pointed out however: keep in mind that there are breed-specific rescue groups though!)
Rescue talk! When people remark about our animals, or even when strangers simply find out that we live with animals, we always make a point of talking about where we adopted them from. Remember– even though it seems bizarre to us, there is a serious stigma surrounding rescue animals. Every second we talk about our companions is an opportunity to myth-bust!
Insure your pet! Having an illness or injury that is expensive to treat should never be a reason to end a companion’s life. By insuring your pet (or setting up a savings system so you’re already emergency-ready), you’re ensuring a long and happy life together by taking away much of the stress of covering expensive medical costs. And if you’re considering adopting an older animal, expect medical bills and for insurance to be a bit more expensive.
In closing, shopping is what you do when you need a new toothbrush, or run out of balsamic vinegar. It is not what you do when looking for a companion. So be a superhero. Adopt! Rescues rule!

Love4himies
January 26th, 2012, 08:16 AM
I have highlighted some of the points that I feel very strongly about. Please don't buy from breeders, they really don't have dogs' or cats' best interest at heart, there are too many dying in shelters and on the streets.

marko
January 26th, 2012, 10:45 AM
Although I personally adopt from shelters and 100% advocate for adopting from shelters whenever possible.... I also 100% disagree with the point that there are no responsible breeders.

I know exactly where the article's author is coming from though. I too have spent time in shelters and have seen firsthand that animals are often put to death simply because they are unwanted. This saddens me to the core. The author (and many members here) are very passionate about animals, so am I.

BUT - In every profession, there are good people, bad people and average people. To categorize them all as bad, imo, is letting the heart overtake the head at a 100% level. When this happens, imo, the spreader of the message gets LESS support, not more.

I 100% agree that it's best that all pets be spayed/neutered. It's better for the animals and it's better for society. This line of thinking needs WAY more publicity in the mass media. We need more' Bob Barkers' and other high profile people to spread this message.

Love4himies
January 26th, 2012, 11:06 AM
Although I personally adopt from shelters and 100% advocate for adopting from shelters whenever possible.... I also 100% disagree with the point that there are no responsible breeders.



I guess I just can't get my head around why any breeder would breed when there are so many pets dying. That, to me, shows no compassion for those animals and a lack of empathy for life.

The stats posted in this blog about New Mexico, show what is possible if people stop breeding:

Take a look at Albuquerque, New Mexico, which banned the sale of cats and dogs in 2006. Animal adoptions have increased by 23 per cent, while the rate of animals killed at shelters has decreased by 35 percent.

And I know you can't fix every cat and dog because biologically we would wipe out the species, but just stop breeding for a couple of years. Allow us to get the animal overpopulation under control so healthy animals are not being killed.

marko
January 26th, 2012, 11:32 AM
.......

Take a look at Albuquerque, New Mexico, which banned the sale of cats and dogs in 2006. Animal adoptions have increased by 23 per cent, while the rate of animals killed at shelters has decreased by 35 percent......


This is AWESOME. And it's a fab start and I wish more cities would join! This ban though (AFAIK) does not stop breeders from breeding, it only prevents pets from being sold in pet stores. It's a big start though and Kudos to Albuquerque and other progressive cities. :highfive:

Love4himies
January 26th, 2012, 11:56 AM
This is AWESOME. And it's a fab start and I wish more cities would join! This ban though (AFAIK) does not stop breeders from breeding, it only prevents pets from being sold in pet stores. It's a big start though and Kudos to Albuquerque and other progressive cities. :highfive:

You are right, but it is a step in the right direction to get homeless pets adopted.:thumbs up

erykah1310
January 26th, 2012, 01:09 PM
And I know you can't fix every cat and dog because biologically we would wipe out the species, but just stop breeding for a couple of years. Allow us to get the animal overpopulation under control so healthy animals are not being killed.

I wont lie and say I actually read this entire thing right now,but do plan on it and admittedly at first I thought " here we go again" but I will say I 110% agree with this statement that I saw.
I wont go into why good breeders are important right now, firstly because my point has been said a thousand times but I do agree that ALL people with the best interest of animals, dogs, cats, their breed ect... at this time of crisis SHOULD take a break. I myself theoretically could have bred a litter this past fall, and all plans were made, suitable sire chosen, deposit given for him ect, however, at that EXACT time a whole lot of well deserving dogs were sitting in shelters in my area alone and being a part of a group of people who were working with the puppy mill dogs from Paws R us at the time, I could not have lived with myself at that moment to have brought up to 11 more puppies into the world/area at that time.
I had to make a choice, one that I could feel good about and one that I could sleep at night. My time, money efforts ect were better suited to the dogs in need both locally and that came here from further away.
There is indeed a major problem, its not a new problem by far and it will not be a quick fix.
however if all breeders be them, COE, reputable, back yard, hobbyist, what ever category they fall under would just take a few years ( this way you could focus on proving your breeding dogs more, focus on health more, focus on a lot of more important things other than the time span between litters) then I really think we could get this undercontrol a bit more.
However, even though as a breeder I am instantly looked down upon by MANY rescue people, Idon't care what the perception of me is, and I don't care if I breed this year coming or not, i don't care that I didn't breed last year or the year before and financially it does not affect me in any way, but... I don't exploit my dogs for financial gain, breeding is NOT what puts food on my table, food in my dogs bellies or pays the bills. Its the people that are puppy farming that we need to stop, the people that could care less about what they are doing, the health, the quality of life their dogs have, and so on. Unfortunately by good breeders, better than me breeders, working dog breeders stopping, it just increases the flow of traffic to these farming breeders as our society is a want what we want and when we want it society. Until the average pet owners are fully aware of what they are supporting and the damage they are causing, sadly every reputable breeder ceasing breeding will do nothing to help the crisis.
This is a various edged sword and by dulling one edge, there are still other edges that cut and cause problems.
Just my 2 cents as I walk out the door.
I will go back and read the OP later on.

Goldfields
January 27th, 2012, 08:53 AM
Who on this forum needs this? Certainly not Erykah, who just showed how responsible she is. Are there puppy mill owners I haven't twigged are on here yet? Aah, but wait :lightbulb: , could it be my mention of breeding Jarrah that bought this on?
Well, just in case , and FYI, Love4himies, I didn't stop breeding for two years, my last ACD litter was 24 years ago! My last Sheltie litter was 7 years ago ! Am I still a breeder, yes, I have been a member for over 35 years of our Canine Council and still hold my breeding prefix. Will I breed with Jarrah? Despite the rant, yes I will if I consider, after her health checks, that it'd be a real loss to the breed to desex her. This breed has struck something of a genetic bottleneck in its country of origin due to the popular sire syndrome. She carries total outcross lines and her dam's lines are not freely available unfortunately. But that matters not at all unless she is DNA tested free of PRCD, BAER tested and found to have full hearing, and comes back with a good elbow and hip score. That article tells people to be prepared to insure and expect medical bills for old dogs, but it's the reputable breeders who are trying to breed sound dogs that hopefully won't be dumped in shelters and cost people a lot to look after. Many people don't mind paying for the fully tested pups knowing they will not go blind, be deaf etc.. Their money, their choice, and they shouldn't be made to feel bad about that. It's a gaurantee after all, a bit like that insurance that needs paying for . Her tests btw will cost more than I paid for her. :D But, we'll see, a failed test and she's out the gate. LOL. JOKING!! :D She becomes just another (expensive) pet to be spoilt silly.

Here btw they are cracking down on puppy farmers by making it law that you can't advertise pups or kittens for sale unless they are microchipped. Newspapers refuse to accept the ad's unless microchip numbers are included. Interesting to see a whole column of pets for sale and the only kittens(no pups) are to give away free.

BenMax
January 27th, 2012, 09:15 AM
I don't think this thread is all about you Goldfields. I think it is just alittle insight and not geared towards anyone in particular. Anyways, breed away. No one is trying to educate you at all.
How sad that something informative turned into a 'pointing at someone thread'. I mean really?

I think that what is suggested is to simply empower yourself with as much information possible. Make good choices and look into alternatives when choosing a fur companion. True it is hard for those that rescue to even fathom the thought of going to breeders for pets when there are so many within the system nationwide. Everyone in rescue scrambles and networks to extents that you cannot imagine just to literally pull dogs just in the nick of time out of gas chambers or out of danger lists in shelters and/or pounds. But again - this is not about a rescuers ordeal or daily calling.

In general I do believe however that reputable and respected breeders are certainly against millers and other sources of breeding. They are committed to maintain good genetics and lineage of their dogs. I would think that they along with those in rescue would be ideal in educating the public. I would actually love to see this collaboration as I think this is the key.

I am not opposed to breeding by reputable breeders. I would however like to see more involved on the rescue side to help their breed and I would also wish that the rescues and these breeders unit to work together to educate and help rehome.

My :2cents: for what it is worth...(maybe one cent).

Love4himies
January 27th, 2012, 09:49 AM
I don't think this thread is all about you Goldfields. I think it is just alittle insight and not geared towards anyone in particular. Anyways, breed away. No one is trying to educate you at all.
How sad that something informative turned into a 'pointing at someone thread'. I mean really?

I think that what is suggested is to simply empower yourself with as much information possible. Make good choices and look into alternatives when choosing a fur companion. True it is hard for those that rescue to even fathom the thought of going to breeders for pets when there are so many within the system nationwide. Everyone in rescue scrambles and networks to extents that you cannot imagine just to literally pull dogs just in the nick of time out of gas chambers or out of danger lists in shelters and/or pounds. But again - this is not about a rescuers ordeal or daily calling.

In general I do believe however that reputable and respected breeders are certainly against millers and other sources of breeding. They are committed to maintain good genetics and lineage of their dogs. I would think that they along with those in rescue would be ideal in educating the public. I would actually love to see this collaboration as I think this is the key.

I am not opposed to breeding by reputable breeders. I would however like to see more involved on the rescue side to help their breed and I would also wish that the rescues and these breeders unit to work together to educate and help rehome.

My :2cents: for what it is worth...(maybe one cent).

Excellent post, BM :thumbs up.

For me, I too would love to see "rep" breeders to help more in rescuing, it would prove to me that they really do care about the others in need of a home.

marko
January 27th, 2012, 09:57 AM
I too don't see this as a post to point fingers. Not at all actually.

What I love about this post though is that I found out that there are more progressive cities than i had thought and it shows the power of cities and city laws. I am SO impressed with these progressive cities...and cities are made of PASSIONATE people that help get these laws passed. :highfive: :goodvibes:

Some cities that get Kudos include; West Hollywood California, South Lake Tahoe, California, Albuquerque new mexico, Richmond B.C, Even Toronto, Ontario and the bourough of Rosemont petit-patrie in Montreal I believe. pets are no longer sold in stores in those cities. Still a long way to go for sure...but things are moving in the right direction.

This is very progressive thinking and I hope it catches on like a virus.

BenMax
January 27th, 2012, 10:01 AM
I too don't see this as a post to point fingers. Not at all actually.


Good because it's a great thread and I do not feel that anyone has been singled out contrary to what one believes.

Infact Marko, there are certain municipalities in Montreal that are making steps towards good ownership all with the collaboration with the SPCA. :offtopic:

Love4himies
January 27th, 2012, 10:18 AM
I too don't see this as a post to point fingers. Not at all actually.

What I love about this post though is that I found out that there are more progressive cities than i had thought and it shows the power of cities and city laws. I am SO impressed with these progressive cities...and cities are made of PASSIONATE people that help get these laws passed. :highfive: :goodvibes:

Some cities that get Kudos include; West Hollywood California, South Lake Tahoe, California, Albuquerque new mexico, Richmond B.C, Even Toronto, Ontario and the bourough of Rosemont petit-patrie in Montreal I believe. pets are no longer sold in stores in those cities. Still a long way to go for sure...but things are moving in the right direction.

This is very progressive thinking and I hope it catches on like a virus.


I do love to hear about cities that are changing their thinking about animal control. To just allow animals to breed just to put them to death is just not humane. We humans should be smarter and more compassionate than that.

chico2
January 27th, 2012, 02:08 PM
I too did not read it all,but can understand by reading everyones responses and I know something has to be done about all the over-crowded shelters,stop healthy animals from being killed..
Stop Pet-Stores from selling pups and kittens is a good start,as I know 2 "pet-stores"who went out of business,after numerous complaints,no more"pet-stores"here in Oakville.
The problem is they are still being sold on Kijiji and other sites,it looks however like Kijiji is trying to change that.

14+kitties
January 27th, 2012, 07:37 PM
Excellent post L4H. Thank you for sharing. :grouphug:
BenMax, I love your points. You always have such good ones. :grouphug:
erykah1310, thank you for your post. I always find them interesting - in a good way for the most part.

I believe those numbers from 2008 to be much worse now. The numbers for this area alone are sickening. It's hard to wrap your head around. And yet, they keep on breeding. Wonderful!
I speak to many breeders in my line of work. A lot of them buy their food from us. It's sad. They close their eyes to what's around them and keep on keeping on. And "they do it for the love of the breed" pulls no weight. Most are quite open with the fact that they do it because they can make good money at it. Wonderful!!! Now how can we keep on believing those who say "they don't make money at it" when so many have told me differently?
One is a Siamese breeder. She is finally getting out of business after 20+ years and, to her credit, she admits she has made a good profit off these cats. We have had great conversations. She sees what is going on - finally. Wonderful! One down - many to go.

Again L4, thank you my friend for posting. It needs to be repeated time and time again.

Love4himies
January 27th, 2012, 09:05 PM
Excellent post L4H. Thank you for sharing. :grouphug:
BenMax, I love your points. You always have such good ones. :grouphug:
erykah1310, thank you for your post. I always find them interesting - in a good way for the most part.

I believe those numbers from 2008 to be much worse now. The numbers for this area alone are sickening. It's hard to wrap your head around. And yet, they keep on breeding. Wonderful!
I speak to many breeders in my line of work. A lot of them buy their food from us. It's sad. They close their eyes to what's around them and keep on keeping on. And "they do it for the love of the breed" pulls no weight. Most are quite open with the fact that they do it because they can make good money at it. Wonderful!!! Now how can we keep on believing those who say "they don't make money at it" when so many have told me differently?
One is a Siamese breeder. She is finally getting out of business after 20+ years and, to her credit, she admits she has made a good profit off these cats. We have had great conversations. She sees what is going on - finally. Wonderful! One down - many to go.

Again L4, thank you my friend for posting. It needs to be repeated time and time again.

So nice to hear from you again 14+ :grouphug: I am so glad this person has gotten out of the breeding business :thumbs up.

Oh yes, they make a profit from breeding. The start up costs for a new "rep" breeder may high, but if you have a litter of 5 at about 1500K each, that is 7500 bucks. That should about cover the costs. Every litter after that is gravy.

Now I don't doubt the breeder thinks they love the breed they are breeding. But, to me, to truly love a breed (or species), you would not want to have some of that breed thrown into a gas chamber to die a horrid death. You would want all of them to have homes that they are well taken care of. So while the breeder is breeding said breed and allowing those 5 cutie pies to be born, 5 cutie pies of the same breed are dying in shelters. The puppies breeders create are no more deserving of a loving home than those who are in shelters, hoping somebody comes to their rescue before their time is up.

Very sad that pets, who we claim to love, are treated really no better than our cars.

erykah1310
January 27th, 2012, 11:04 PM
Oh yes, they make a profit from breeding. The start up costs for a new "rep" breeder may high, but if you have a litter of 5 at about 1500K each, that is 7500 bucks. That should about cover the costs. Every litter after that is gravy.


Oh yes there is a profit from even your first litter depending on the size. I have gone head to head about this exact topic with some show breeders over the past year and I have flat out laughed when they said there was no money made from them breeding! First thing I had to ask was... "what did you drive to get here" most of the time it is a fancy RV or nice top of the line pick up.
Yes I "made" money on my first litter, but since then I have put double that back into my dogs in some way or another not including feeding or general care that I would have spent on owning the number of dogs I choose to own. Does that mean I made no money off my dogs? No! and I assure you I could have been greedy and pushed to make even more now that I have 2 females and a male of my own.
Last year I could have had one litter, This year I could have had 2 litters and no stud fee's if that is what I cared about. The way I see it, my dogs are young, lets have fun first.

I don't know why it is so taboo for a breeder to admit that by breeding they make enough money to support their passions, be it conformation, sporting or what ever you are in to.

I personally have no problem with someone being honest about profiting but proving to me in some way or another that their dogs do not merely sit in a crate the rest of the week when not at a show, or having pups.

I get a little upset when I hear of "ethical show breeders" who don't make money breeding yet have 20+ dogs in a small barn or shed on their property and only pull them out to put them in the ring or send them for breeding. Then when their breeding dogs get too old or they decide to change lines, they put their dogs in rescue! It happens FAR too much in the show world than I would like to believe, sport dog venues I have been involved with so far seem to "place" dogs more into pet homes when the pup doesn't seem to have the right drive for x sport after they grow them a bit.

So, even sometimes what is generally believed to be the only kind of breeders you should go to... they can be just as harmful to the pet over population problem as a byb or puppy farmer.

Each puppy or kitten a breeder brings into this world they NEED to be responsible for FOR the ENTIRE life of said animal.

Cut back on the numbers of litters, stop breeding dogs right at 2 just because you can and start taking FULL responsibility.
this BS of not making money breeding really gets me going, its non sense.

erykah1310
January 28th, 2012, 12:03 AM
Also...
Now that I have actually read the original post and being that I am all over the place and referred to as the canine equivalent of toddlers and tiaras, and a resonsibreeder or what ever. As someone who is quite active with their dogs and some of the sports I love really does require a dog bred with specific points in mind and while a rescue or "hand me down" dog can "do" most sports, sometimes especially in bitework sports you need a very solid temperament, a nervy dog is a danger in far more ways than one. There are importances to specified breeding programs. But again, one could argue that there is no need for dogs to anything more than lay on our couches and go for a daily walk with us, but that depends greatly on breeds and each and every owners lifestyle.

I personally would rather know darn well that a dog I am doing this sort of stuff with is coming from a long line of mentally stable and drivey dogs.
This is one of the best vids that show all aspects of a sport that requires more obedience and training that most other sports out there... Sorry about the Eminem song... not my vid so there is foul language to the music...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CQeVLAiY4w&feature=related

To say that the breeders who take this stuff seriously should not breed because some byber got a Mal or Dutchie and decided to breed nervy dogs would ruin an entire sport and fast.

14+kitties
January 28th, 2012, 12:58 AM
So nice to hear from you again 14+ :grouphug:

Sorry. I've been a tad bit busy with a few kitties......... I'll try to do better with staying in touch. I'll post some new pics soon somewhere besides FB. :o

Oh yes, they make a profit from breeding. The start up costs for a new "rep" breeder may high, but if you have a litter of 5 at about 1500K each, that is 7500 bucks. That should about cover the costs. Every litter after that is gravy.


My hubby and I have been joking about what breed we should get - eventually. I am not ready for another dog yet :( and when I am would like to get an older rescue pup. He keeps saying he wants three wiener dogs that are small enough to fit in his pockets. :laughing: Of course he's joking. But he has been watching a lot of dog shows on TV and looking at different sites. Of course one of them is kijiji. He can't get over the price of dogs on there. If he even suggests we get one from there .......... it won't happen! But we will not go the breeder route. When and if we do get another dog we will go to the shelter or through a rescue.

Goldfields
January 28th, 2012, 03:02 AM
Welcome back to the triad. :D

Erykah, I'm with you on it being careful breeders who should be breeding certain types of dogs. My sister would agree also, after her experiences with Dobermans. Because of past experiences I also want more information than any shelter can hand out on a rescue cattle dog. Though they can appear friendly, they are protective, so will it just hold an intruder or visitor with a warning till you come home, as many do, or is it savage when you aren't home? Is it a trustworthy personal guard dog? Has it any working ability, does it just want to chase stock through fences, does it heel low enough to avoid a fractured skull, does it bite too hard? Is it good with children? Some would never harm a child, in fact they would guard stranger's children if father wanted to smack the child for being naughty, yet others could seem okay and all of a sudden turn nasty. Is it a latent cat killer? So many things to consider, but so much a breeder can tell you about the parents, grandparents , earlier full or half siblings etc..

Love4himies, I doubt if Erykah or I move in circles where people are out to breed litters at the rate you mention. Only one of mine ever had a second litter, smallish litters being shelties, very much in demand, the demand far exceeds the supply here, yet I have two pups from each litter. Mattie and Toby, Dundee and Bo. Love them all, could have placed Dundee easily as he got the sympathy vote because of his birth defects, could have refused to have Bo back when his owner had to part with him, could have resold him :lightbulb: , LOL, but they are sooo hard to part with. Nothing you say will ever take away one ounce of the pleasure I get from seeing how much the others are loved by their owners. I stopped breeding them basically for the same reason I did the cattle dogs, not enough people did health checks for me to believe I could breed sound dogs. That situation is now improving in leaps and bounds. Customers help when they demand tested puppies. Our canine councils helped by getting the message through to customers.
I don't know how you need to get your message out. I think it needs to be to the customer though, you won't shame a dedicated, money making byb into quitting their shameful but lucrative ways. Do your local papers allow half a page of photo's of shelter dogs and cats like ours do? Our Pound manages to place many of the animals, in fact for those who care, that Kelpie I handed in .... owner did not come looking for her but the Ranger, who is loathe to destroy her, told me he's given her to a farmer to try as a worker. :fingerscr she is going to behave. Naturally I will follow that up, she was a sweetie.

Love4himies
January 28th, 2012, 08:10 AM
My hubby and I have been joking about what breed we should get - eventually. I am not ready for another dog yet :( and when I am would like to get an older rescue pup. He keeps saying he wants three wiener dogs that are small enough to fit in his pockets. :laughing: Of course he's joking. But he has been watching a lot of dog shows on TV and looking at different sites. Of course one of them is kijiji. He can't get over the price of dogs on there. If he even suggests we get one from there .......... it won't happen! But we will not go the breeder route. When and if we do get another dog we will go to the shelter or through a rescue.

I do go on your FB page to look at all your pics :lovestruck:, but admittedly, I am not a FB fan.

I, too, can't believe the price people pay for dogs on kijiji :eek:. Can you imagine if they adopted from the local shelter and donated the remainder of the funds they saved to them? The shelters would be able to do so much more :( for those poor unfortunate cast offs that breeders and those who don't fix their pets, continue to produce. :cry:

BTW, I need your advice on trapping possibly 2 cats. I will post elsewhere though ;)

Shaykeija
January 28th, 2012, 11:08 AM
I believe that we should be like Germany and have a mandatory law to spay neuter all animals. If you should want to breed for any reason, you have to apply for a licence. In Germany there is not the same problem as we have here in Canada and other uninformed countries with over population and high kill. In Germany, old and sick animals are often adopted out and get to live their lives with kindness. An expensive licence for every litter would weed out the crappy back yard breeders with the hybrid mixes. Only the true breeders that are doing it to better the breed would be able to do this... just my 2 cents....

Love4himies
January 28th, 2012, 11:15 AM
We are so far behind Europe's treatment of animals, it is unbelievable. During my 4 years that I lived over there as an adult, I learned so much on how humans should be living and respecting companion animals. They are not thrown out like trash, they are treated as part of the family.

erykah1310
January 28th, 2012, 12:00 PM
I'd vote for something like Germany has, not only does it save many many animals, but it would also greatly help people looking for a specific sport/ working dog by not having to weed through smoke and mirrors sites and breeders.
A per litter licence is a great idea! Costly enough to really make you think and discourage millers but not so much that you drive people underground.

Shaykeija
January 28th, 2012, 12:05 PM
76752 i like this

Love4himies
January 28th, 2012, 12:22 PM
76752 i like this

Me too :thumbs up

chico2
January 28th, 2012, 12:36 PM
Erykah,I have always known you to really care and love your animals,be it dogs,cats or horses.
Yout TM's are gorgeous and unethical breeder is not a word I would use describing you and I applaud your honesty.
I don't know much of the show-circuit,but often wonder when I watch a dog-show,what if the dog is not perfect??
I believe with cats it's a little bit different,a family up the street from me has been breeding cats,supplying pet-stores for years,I was glad when the stores closed,but she's still breeding.
The husband asked me if I wanted a kitten,since they have a litter now.
He said,it's a Russian Blue,except he's orange..that just tells you how much they know.
Now,their daughters sell them in school,they advertise in the paper and probably on Kijiji if they have a computer.
They have no idea to what kind of homes the kittens are going,it angers me to no end,since at that time our Humane Society had about 200 cats and I told him so,if you love cats,you do not breed!

binkybuff
February 2nd, 2012, 01:07 PM
If I may reply here

I had mini Schnauzers, CKC registered, (also had a kennel) and several of our friends and neighbours wanted that particular breed of dog, so I did breed, raise and sold pure bred dogs for awhile, however, before even considering to breed my females, a deposit had to be had on the puppy. Then a check was made on the person, if not known personally, was made and if I felt or saw anything that might constitute any abuse to the puppy, the deposit was returned. If there was no interest then the females were not bred that year. (Actually, both females were only bred for 3 years, then spayed, and my stud neutered.)

At the time I had 2 females, and only bred them once a year, and used the females alternately. The puppies were raised in the house, and kept until they were 12 weeks, and by the time they were raised were well on the way to being house trained.. Actually, mom would do the training, as I would send them out at the same time. It worked very nicely for me. All puppies were socialized before leaving and were also groomed a couple of times so they didn't have the scary feature of the big bad groomer coming at them.

I had people sign a contract that they would spay/neuter the pup, and I had to have a copy of that certificate. Also in the contract, it stated that if I saw or heard of any abuse to the animal, I would come and claim it back, which did happen..

I know that some people are not as stern as I was in my breeding, and are looking only for the money, and I object strongly to the fact that folks and pet stores are breeding and asking huge prices for cross bred dogs. I have had some clerks tell me that a yorkie/schnauzer cross was purebred, had that happen one time when grooming a dog..... well yeah, duh, I must have a huge sticker on my forehead saying, Loser. :laughing: I procede to tell them that they are crazy and walk out.

Have also adopted a couple of dogs, which are no longer alive, but now have two adopted cats in my home. For me, adopting now is a huge pleasure, and I support it fully. If anyone talks to me of wanting to buy a dog, I always encourage them to do the research of that particular dog, and to always look at adopting.

Just wanted to have my :2cents: worth.
take care
binky

Masha
February 2nd, 2012, 05:22 PM
When I joined this board, I just bought our guy from a breeder. I was one of the people that always believed that as long as you do research and get your dog from an ethical breeder, that it is ok - essentially I supported breeders as long as they were ethical (at least whatever that term meant to me at that point in my life).

After being a member (albeit not too active) of this form, I can honestly say that I feel that my eyes have been opened to the sever over population of dogs and cats. I now cannot ever see myself ever purchasing a puppy ever again - my husband and extended family are all on board as well - we will rescue and adopt when we decide to expand our family further.

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you.... i think the ONLY way i see an exception to this is when dogs are bread for work but as a pet... i dont think anyone needs to go the breeder route and I believe that no matter how 'ethical' the breeder is or how responsible they are, at the end of the day they are still adding to the over population of cats and dogs... and that to me, is not what being ethical is.

Winston
February 2nd, 2012, 05:28 PM
Masha! it is so nice to see you again!!! :thumbs up I loved your explanation.

It makes one think. I will not comment because I honestly dont know enough about breeding to comment.

I do know that my 2 beautiful kitties were rescued from being fed to a snake and that my 2 dogs now have both been rescued and I honestly wouldn't have it any other way.

Love4himies
February 2nd, 2012, 05:28 PM
When I joined this board, I just bought our guy from a breeder. I was one of the people that always believed that as long as you do research and get your dog from an ethical breeder, that it is ok - essentially I supported breeders as long as they were ethical (at least whatever that term meant to me at that point in my life).

After being a member (albeit not too active) of this form, I can honestly say that I feel that my eyes have been opened to the sever over population of dogs and cats. I now cannot ever see myself ever purchasing a puppy ever again - my husband and extended family are all on board as well - we will rescue and adopt when we decide to expand our family further.

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you.... i think the ONLY way i see an exception to this is when dogs are bread for work but as a pet... i dont think anyone needs to go the breeder route and I believe that no matter how 'ethical' the breeder is or how responsible they are, at the end of the day they are still adding to the over population of cats and dogs... and that to me, is not what being ethical is.

Oh, Masha, I love you :grouphug::grouphug:

BenMax
February 2nd, 2012, 07:39 PM
Masha...you are so gusty posting what you did. I respect you for that.
Thank you so much for supporting our cause (L4H and others, and many who are no longer here on pets).

Again, thank you.

Goldfields
February 2nd, 2012, 07:49 PM
Masha wrote ....

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you...

If people believe this, why do they put on their posts that they own a 'GSD', a 'Himilayan cat' or whatever. Why not just put x number of cats, or dogs, or their names instead of giving one iota of credit to the breeders( :eek: :mad:) in the past who created these beautiful purebred animals? :shrug: To be believable why show pride in anything that might be purebred? Have a crossbreed as your avatar for instance.

Love4himies
February 2nd, 2012, 08:02 PM
Masha wrote ....

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you...

If people believe this, why do they put on their posts that they own a 'GSD', a 'Himilayan cat' or whatever. Why not just put x number of cats, or dogs, or their names instead of giving one iota of credit to the breeders( :eek: :mad:) in the past who created these beautiful purebred animals? :shrug: To be believable why show pride in anything that might be purebred? Have a crossbreed as your avatar for instance.

I put the breeds of my cats in my signature line so they are easily ID'd in pics that I used to post (age and sex is included for health issues). But this is off topic.

BenMax
February 2nd, 2012, 08:03 PM
Masha wrote ....

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you...

If people believe this, why do they put on their posts that they own a 'GSD', a 'Himilayan cat' or whatever. Why not just put x number of cats, or dogs, or their names instead of giving one iota of credit to the breeders( :eek: :mad:) in the past who created these beautiful purebred animals? :shrug: To be believable why show pride in anything that might be purebred? Have a crossbreed as your avatar for instance.

Maybe because they do own a GSD or perhaps one that is a mixed GSD but the predominent behaviour or traits is GSD...so they just say GSD?
Why are we dissecting this? Sorry I must be missing something?

Goldfields
February 2nd, 2012, 09:53 PM
I would suggest they own a GSD because it is a beautiful breed, ditto for any cat they can label with its proper breed, and that beauty is due to dedicated breeders, whom they appear to dislike to say the least. Ironic, isn't it? Always strikes me as strange. But then, I think these types of threads are wasted on a pet forum anyway, I haven't seen any breeders here who aren't very careful with their chosen breed(aka not feeling guilty about anything), or any byb's or puppy millers either. As for people buying a pedigreed pup, it's their own business surely? Their own hard earned money to spend as they please, surely? They shouldn't be cyber bullied into doing what you want. They are not guilty for the sins of the irresponsible owners or puppy farmers. I think your hard sell should be aimed at new pet owners, those looking for their first pet, instead of those who have done their best already. A soft sell would be even better of course, no-one likes to be ranted at. It'd be nice if everyone had to own say 4 cross breds before buying off a breeder, if that's what they wanted. It'd save quite a lot of dogs. I've had Scottie(foxie cross), Kim(Collie cross), Freckles(ACD X Kelpie) and Bluey(unreg. ACD). By that stage I realised ACDs were just the best dog born, LOL, hence my following 35 year involvement with them. In an earlier post I did explain why I wouldn't want a rescue.

erykah1310
February 3rd, 2012, 12:28 AM
I don't like purebreds because of a "look" what I like about purebred option is temperament, health history, drive, desire to work ect.

I am not like most dog owners, we are extremely active, and not just in one sport either, as I have said, be it dogsledding, tracking, dock diving, obedience, agility or ringsport I want a biddable yet hard dog with nerves of steel and a stable temperament to go along with it all. Am I asking a lot... absolutely. Can a rescue do it? probably, and for the most part yes, but sometimes you wind up with a nervy dog, or one with issues, and by no fault of their own but more so poor breeding programs. A nervy dog put into a hard working situation is not only unfair to the dog, but also can be dangerous.

However, this could easily turn into all dogs should be over weight couch potatoes with no outlet instead of working. There are people who are equally opposed to seeing dogs doing what they were bred to do as it is "cruel" to "make" them work... when in reality when dealing with a true working bred dog, they are making their handler work and it is cruel to expect a dog out of that breeding sit on a couch or in a crate all day.

The argument of breeding can go on for ever and in the end nothing has been solved other than driving an even larger wedge between people who agree there is a problem and a solution needs to be found, however, painting absolutely every breeder with the same brush and chastising people who agree with limited breeding with a PURPOSE as opposed to a look or catchy name then there is no way anyone is going make any progress with stopping the ones who are REALLY the major problem.

14+kitties
February 3rd, 2012, 12:47 AM
LOL It's amazing to me that in the long run nothing changes. Same ol, same ol. I checked. Yep, in the right section. Yep, it's a rant, an opinion, a feeling. This type of thread is wasted on a pet forum???? Really??? Amazing. Just flippin' amazing!!! I suppose in some people minds it is. But for others maybe this type of thread just may help to open their eyes to the exact problem which the OP was trying to bring to light.

Education. It benefits everyone to be educated. Even the hard headed who refuse to see the truth. Eventually something has to get through. Eventually change will come. That is all we can hope for.

I believe L4H posted this blog to help educate. THAT is ALL. The truth sometimes sucks. Those numbers don't lie. In a lot of cases they are in fact very low. Why do we continue to argue the facts? It's there in black and white - and red. These animals are dying day after day after day. I don't believe the blogger was blogging against all breeders. I believe the blogger was saying the byb's have to go. The millers have to be obliterated. The animals need to be fixed. That's it, that's all.

Masha - thank you. :grouphug:

Shaykeija
February 3rd, 2012, 07:42 AM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj45/imsuperbored/Gros_Smileys_3.gif

BenMax
February 3rd, 2012, 08:02 AM
Great post 14+K. You are right, the truth hurts.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 08:04 AM
LOL It's amazing to me that in the long run nothing changes. Same ol, same ol. I checked. Yep, in the right section. Yep, it's a rant, an opinion, a feeling. This type of thread is wasted on a pet forum???? Really??? Amazing. Just flippin' amazing!!! I suppose in some people minds it is. But for others maybe this type of thread just may help to open their eyes to the exact problem which the OP was trying to bring to light.

Education. It benefits everyone to be educated. Even the hard headed who refuse to see the truth. Eventually something has to get through. Eventually change will come. That is all we can hope for.

I believe L4H posted this blog to help educate. THAT is ALL. The truth sometimes sucks. Those numbers don't lie. In a lot of cases they are in fact very low. Why do we continue to argue the facts? It's there in black and white - and red. These animals are dying day after day after day. I don't believe the blogger was blogging against all breeders. I believe the blogger was saying the byb's have to go. The millers have to be obliterated. The animals need to be fixed. That's it, that's all.

Masha - thank you. :grouphug:

Great post, 14+.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 08:13 AM
I don't like purebreds because of a "look" what I like about purebred option is temperament, health history, drive, desire to work ect.

I am not like most dog owners, we are extremely active, and not just in one sport either, as I have said, be it dogsledding, tracking, dock diving, obedience, agility or ringsport I want a biddable yet hard dog with nerves of steel and a stable temperament to go along with it all. Am I asking a lot... absolutely. Can a rescue do it? probably, and for the most part yes, but sometimes you wind up with a nervy dog, or one with issues, and by no fault of their own but more so poor breeding programs. A nervy dog put into a hard working situation is not only unfair to the dog, but also can be dangerous.

However, this could easily turn into all dogs should be over weight couch potatoes with no outlet instead of working. There are people who are equally opposed to seeing dogs doing what they were bred to do as it is "cruel" to "make" them work... when in reality when dealing with a true working bred dog, they are making their handler work and it is cruel to expect a dog out of that breeding sit on a couch or in a crate all day.

The argument of breeding can go on for ever and in the end nothing has been solved other than driving an even larger wedge between people who agree there is a problem and a solution needs to be found, however, painting absolutely every breeder with the same brush and chastising people who agree with limited breeding with a PURPOSE as opposed to a look or catchy name then there is no way anyone is going make any progress with stopping the ones who are REALLY the major problem.

Some of the best sled dogs are mutts (Alaskan Husky), you don't need a purebred to enjoy a sport and you don't need to get sled dogs from breeders, in fact, you can even use BC for sled dogs (GailP), lots of them up for adoption. I have a friend with 6 dogs they use actively for sledding. Guess what, all rescues :eek:


Now getting back on topic.

This thread is to educate people about the overpopulation of pets in this world and that there is NO need to be breeding any more while ones are dying in shelters.

It will hopefully open somebody's eyes to not give their precious money to a breeder, but to a shelter that is there to help the homeless animals.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 08:16 AM
In an earlier post I did explain why I wouldn't want a rescue.

This saddens me deeply :cry:. Of all the cats I have had in my life, the ones that have been rescued from the hardest of lives have been the most loving creatures.

BenMax
February 3rd, 2012, 08:23 AM
Some of the best sled dogs are mutts (Alaskan Husky), you don't need a purebred to enjoy a sport and you don't need to get sled dogs from breeders, in fact, you can even use BC for sled dogs (GailP), lots of them up for adoption. I have a friend with 6 dogs they use actively for sledding. Guess what, all rescues :eek:


Now getting back on topic.

This thread is to educate people about the overpopulation of pets in this world and that there is NO need to be breeding any more while ones are dying in shelters.

It will hopefully open somebody's eyes to not give their precious money to a breeder, but to a shelter that is there to help the homeless animals.

You know, I was at the shelter a few days ago and pulled a few dogs and cats from 'the list'. One a unpapered GSD (2 years), a shih zsu (no papers) and a mixed shnauzer. Also a siamese (no papers) and a few domestics. All loving, beautiful, full of life, happy, greatful....all quiet in my truck and at my mercy..yet so trusting. I sang to them as the cats were frightened (I can't sing btw..:clown:)..and soon all calmed down and it was a pleasant drive. I had the GSD's head on my shoulder most of the way. I could feel her breath on my neck..and I was so happy for her. She was happy, quiet and at the same time she knew she was safe.

Every two weeks I go to the shelter and cram in whatever I can possibly squeeze into my truck. I take them to rescues that lovingly opened their hearts and homes to these lucky FEW. My heart aches terribly...TERRIBLY for those I left behind...and could not help. I pray for forgiveness. My heart aches every damn day..every day.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 08:33 AM
You know, I was at the shelter a few days ago and pulled a few dogs and cats from 'the list'. One a unpapered GSD (2 years), a shih zsu (no papers) and a mixed shnauzer. Also a siamese (no papers) and a few domestics. All loving, beautiful, full of life, happy, greatful....all quiet in my truck and at my mercy..yet so trusting. I sang to them as the cats were frightened (I can't sing btw..:clown:)..and soon all calmed down and it was a pleasant drive. I had the GSD's head on my shoulder most of the way. I could feel her breath on my neck..and I was so happy for her. She was happy, quiet and at the same time she knew she was safe.

Every two weeks I go to the shelter and cram in whatever I can possibly squeeze into my truck. I take them to rescues that lovingly opened their hearts and homes to these lucky FEW. My heart aches terribly...TERRIBLY for those I left behind...and could not help. I pray for forgiveness. My heart aches every damn day..every day.

:cry::cry:, you and 14+, have, by far, done more for homeless animals than anybody I know. You two are absolute :angel:.


It is this feeling of compassion that drives the passion in our posts. The frustration of breeders contributing to this horror drives me insane.

BenMax
February 3rd, 2012, 08:43 AM
Bottom line L4H is that if one does not walk in these shoes, it is unknown.

Personally, I think (and I could be very wrong); people will buck this because of guilt. I mean think about it..if you are contributing in a negative way, refuse to acknowledge the obvious then it speaks volumes. VOLUMES.

Personally, I give up on people who are on the opposite side of this rescue thing. I totally do, and for this reason I am going to try my hardest to ignore this total lack of compassion and ignorance. I make this pledge as of now. And I am doing this because there is no hope. The only good thing that we who SEE this as a problem are the ones contributing to make a positive step forward, to matter and to make a difference regardless of how big or how small. This group we belong to is not about justification or ego. We are just little people with a big dream and carry alot of hope. That is all I have to say.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 09:01 AM
Bottom line L4H is that if one does not walk in these shoes, it is unknown.

Personally, I think (and I could be very wrong); people will buck this because of guilt. I mean think about it..if you are contributing in a negative way, refuse to acknowledge the obvious then it speaks volumes. VOLUMES.

Personally, I give up on people who are on the opposite side of this rescue thing. I totally do, and for this reason I am going to try my hardest to ignore this total lack of compassion and ignorance. I make this pledge as of now. And I am doing this because there is no hope. The only good thing that we who SEE this as a problem are the ones contributing to make a positive step forward, to matter and to make a difference regardless of how big or how small. This group we belong to is not about justification or ego. We are just little people with a big dream and carry alot of hope. That is all I have to say.

So true. :grouphug:

14+kitties
February 3rd, 2012, 09:17 AM
Thank you BenMax for continuing to do what you do. Without you so many more would perish. You posts bring a tear to the eye. :grouphug:
Thank you L4H for posting this on this site. I know it must have given you some pause before you did so. :grouphug:
How many more shelters will have to be built? How many more rescues will have to be formed? How many more people will have to step up and take responsibility for these dogs and cats being born at mills, bybs, and unethical breeders? How many?
And why? Why should they feel they HAVE to be responsible for those millers, bybs, and UBs? Answer is simple - until those groups stop making money on the backs of these unfortunate animals there will always be a need. So freaking sad. So heartbreaking.
The world needs many many many more BenMaxes. Too bad she and her empathy can't be cloned.

Masha
February 3rd, 2012, 10:49 AM
If people believe this, why do they put on their posts that they own a 'GSD', a 'Himilayan cat' or whatever. Why not just put x number of cats, or dogs, or their names instead of giving one iota of credit to the breeders( :eek: :mad:) in the past who created these beautiful purebred animals? :shrug: To be believable why show pride in anything that might be purebred? Have a crossbreed as your avatar for instance.

As I wrote in my post, we did get our dog from a breeder because at the time it seemed like the normal thing to do, given what we knew at the time. I joined the board when he was a pup and it is while being a member here that I changed my views about getting a dog from a breeder.

I put 'GSD' as an identifier, we did get him from a breeder and writing GSD is a one word description of approx. what type of dog we have (look, size, common health issues, etc.). There is nothing wrong about liking a certain look for a dog, what I said was wrong in my opinion, is "getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' ". Our guys is a GSD and I dont see why I should ignore/hide this/be ashamed of this. But him being a GSD is not what I am proud of. Instead, what I am proud of is how he is so patient with the kitties, even when they boss him around. How he has accepted our daughter as one of his own from the first minute. How he snuggles next to me on the couch and gives me kisses. How he always accompanies me everywhere. Basically how much he loves his family is what I am proud of. If his fur turned green tomorrow and his ears became droopy I would love him just as much.

Maybe because they do own a GSD or perhaps one that is a mixed GSD but the predominent behaviour or traits is GSD...so they just say GSD?
Why are we dissecting this? Sorry I must be missing something?

Exactly, thank you BM! We put GSD because we own a GSD, simple as that. It just tells people a little more about the type of dog we have. I don't see why I should hide that he is GSD - I do not support further breeding of GSDs but he is already one.

I would suggest they own a GSD because it is a beautiful breed, ditto for any cat they can label with its proper breed, and that beauty is due to dedicated breeders, whom they appear to dislike to say the least. Ironic, isn't it? Always strikes me as strange.

As I stated before, we bought our guy before I came to realize the magnitude of the over population problem. As well, we absolutely did NOT get a GSD because he is 'beautiful'. He is indeed beautiful but that is a side note. My husband and I wanted a large, family oriented, active dog that will be good in Canadian winters. We are both of russian background and GSDs are very highly regarded there as a great overall dog and we decided to get one. At the time we went the breeder route because we thought that this is best (we thought this will reduce his chances for health problems or behavioral problems, etc. - ha!! the vets know us by name... and it took A LOT of training to get to where we are now).

I am not saying breeders are bad people. Some breed because they love the breed and love dogs (I personally know some breeders who ADORE their dogs). I think some people just have a harder time wrapping their mind on the over population concept and how their actions have a direct effect on this. I will admit it took me a while to realize it myself too, it is hard to change your thinking when you get set in your ways.

I am not here to attack anyone. I do not hate or dislike breeders, I just get sad that so many sweet amazing dogs are unwanted out there....

BenMax
February 3rd, 2012, 10:52 AM
Great post Masha. Well written with grace. Thank you.:thumbs up

erykah1310
February 3rd, 2012, 11:06 AM
Some of the best sled dogs are mutts (Alaskan Husky), you don't need a purebred to enjoy a sport and you don't need to get sled dogs from breeders, in fact, you can even use BC for sled dogs (GailP), lots of them up for adoption. I have a friend with 6 dogs they use actively for sledding. Guess what, all rescues :eek:


Now getting back on topic.

This thread is to educate people about the overpopulation of pets in this world and that there is NO need to be breeding any more while ones are dying in shelters.

It will hopefully open somebody's eyes to not give their precious money to a breeder, but to a shelter that is there to help the homeless animals.

So you covered one sport, I didn't say a sled dog had to be a siberian husky, I know alaskan huskies are mixed breeds and rescues can run. Look here for instance, Elmo is by far a better sled dog than any of my purebreds.
It is on topic though especially when you are talking about sports like ring.
It may be hard for one to grasp what is needed in a well bred dog to do well safely in sports like mondio and french ring.

I don't understand how it seems to be that if we don't agree with rescue people 100% that we are on the "other end" of it. I'm not... I'm ALL for rescue, I have even stated that YES a couple years of a break for nearly every breeder out there IS needed and that ALL should pool together to get rid of puppy farmers and back yard breeders once and for all... however this falls on deaf rescue ears because I in the same breath can give reasons why GOOD breeding programs are still important.

I am not going to point fingers and say I am better or so and so is a lunatic because they don't agree with me. In the end though, face it. Because of my opinion on the matter I am basically black listed from rescue cliques because I can see the importance in both ends. So if I was to want to help... not one of the rescue people on here like me very much for various personal reasons and I had bred one litter, AND I own and have purchased from breeders. There is NO way in some rescue eyes that I could possibly help right????
Then for a while I had what I felt was the spy. I have never fully understood the fluctuations between contacting or blog reading from one particular person or the private interest in things we do here... I have nothing to hide from anyone on this site, what I have done is public and what I will do is going to remain public. I don't feel the need to gang up with other breeders and waste my time and energy bashing ANYONE. I will pool that energy and resources for when it is needed.

But I guess its because I have never seen it first hand right:rolleyes: thats right, I have never had the crippled old dogs living here that were rescues whom I spent so many sleepless nights crying over, fighting for and trying to "fix", I have never fostered, or pulled a dog from a high kill shelter or situation, oh no... nor have I worked with anyone on rescuing dogs or cats. Never fell in love with a dog who a rescue put down because of human aggression and feared for another because it seems to be heading down the same track... What would I know about rescue??? Clearly nothing because I am a BREEDER
Fact of the matter is, if I were to reach out to any rescue person on this site I would most likely get the shaft due to personal issues with me. But when I see a need for concern on something I have NO issues helping anyone here.

However, when the entire province was bothered by one TM breeder recently about relinquishing 14 of her dogs to rescue... MANY rescues contacted me to see if I could help you're damned right I said yes and started making calls to others who could help. These dogs are still in the care of the breeder and many rescues are left scratching their heads as to what is going on with them... but I don't understand rescue right?
What i don't understand is the my way or the highway mentality I tend to interpret, i may be way off to left field with that one but it is the impression I get.

That old saying "You have a right to your opinion as long as it agrees with mine" is how it comes across.

I just think that most of this argument is preaching to the choir basically. Yes you may have a close minded puppy miller come across this and skip right by it, no realization of what they are doing and the harm they cause so many animals. Or you may get the "consumer" come by this thread. Personally if I didn't understand the over population problem, i would be very intimidated by many of the rescue posts here and be afraid to ask a question. Intimidation and/or bullying is not going to get anyone anywhere. I know it is frustrating repeating ourselves (yes i just lumped myself in with the rescues here:eek:) and educating people to why for the MOST part they do not need a breeder dog and can get EXACTLY what they are looking for from a rescue that has pulled dogs and spent time with dogs and assessed them to no end to ENSURE it is a good match, but for every ONE person who WE can patiently explain the difference and give compassionate reasoning to that is ONE less person who supported a mill or byber.

I just feel we waste too much time and energy bickering amongst each other and looking like crazies on all ends that no one would dare ask any of us for our help or thoughts on a dog they want.

BenMax
February 3rd, 2012, 11:21 AM
Erykah, I am so sorry that you feel this way. Infact you did enlighten me on a few posts and everything is taken into account.

I feel that people are missing the point of the initial OP's post. It is not about breeders. Infact it is about being aware of the facts and make a decision by empowering one's self with all the important information and stats. Then, make a decision.

For sure, us in rescue would LOVE for everyone to go to a shelter or a rescue to get their fur companions. I would absolutely lie if I said otherwise.

I infact do have a close friend who is a breeder. BUT, she also helps me with different breeds as well as the one she breeds and finds homes for them. Great homes at that. She enlightened me on her breeding practices. Her dogs are gorgeous and she spends alot of time and money on each dog. She has however for the past 2 years stopped breeding because there are some of her preferred breeds from who knows where winding up in shelters and pounds. She took it upon herself to sterlize and find homes for these dogs. In saying this, she does intend to breed again..but not right now. She put a hold on it and started to contribute financially and hands on with rescue dogs. Dawg love her!

I want to add that initially we were not friends. Infact, I was on the rescue side of things and she on the other. Our common denominator was animal welfare. That is how we met. Through this we talked..alot. I learnt, and so did she.

Anyways all this to say that regardless of how you interpret all the comments, the most important thing about this thread is education and the options out there. Hopefully someone interested in getting a companion animal will sift through all this smokescreen and make a decision on which route they wish to entertain.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 11:21 AM
As I wrote in my post, we did get our dog from a breeder because at the time it seemed like the normal thing to do, given what we knew at the time. I joined the board when he was a pup and it is while being a member here that I changed my views about getting a dog from a breeder.

I put 'GSD' as an identifier, we did get him from a breeder and writing GSD is a one word description of approx. what type of dog we have (look, size, common health issues, etc.). There is nothing wrong about liking a certain look for a dog, what I said was wrong in my opinion, is "getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' ". Our guys is a GSD and I dont see why I should ignore/hide this/be ashamed of this. But him being a GSD is not what I am proud of. Instead, what I am proud of is how he is so patient with the kitties, even when they boss him around. How he has accepted our daughter as one of his own from the first minute. How he snuggles next to me on the couch and gives me kisses. How he always accompanies me everywhere. Basically how much he loves his family is what I am proud of. If his fur turned green tomorrow and his ears became droopy I would love him just as much.



Exactly, thank you BM! We put GSD because we own a GSD, simple as that. It just tells people a little more about the type of dog we have. I don't see why I should hide that he is GSD - I do not support further breeding of GSDs but he is already one.



As I stated before, we bought our guy before I came to realize the magnitude of the over population problem. As well, we absolutely did NOT get a GSD because he is 'beautiful'. He is indeed beautiful but that is a side note. My husband and I wanted a large, family oriented, active dog that will be good in Canadian winters. We are both of russian background and GSDs are very highly regarded there as a great overall dog and we decided to get one. At the time we went the breeder route because we thought that this is best (we thought this will reduce his chances for health problems or behavioral problems, etc. - ha!! the vets know us by name... and it took A LOT of training to get to where we are now).

I am not saying breeders are bad people. Some breed because they love the breed and love dogs (I personally know some breeders who ADORE their dogs). I think some people just have a harder time wrapping their mind on the over population concept and how their actions have a direct effect on this. I will admit it took me a while to realize it myself too, it is hard to change your thinking when you get set in your ways.

I am not here to attack anyone. I do not hate or dislike breeders, I just get sad that so many sweet amazing dogs are unwanted out there....

Excellent post. I think you have summed up very well.

erykah1310
February 3rd, 2012, 11:31 AM
One more thing before I head out the door...

TRUST ME, in the past 3 years I have logged countless hours talking to, being mentored by, and learning from MANY breeders of various breeds. And I can honestly say, it is those breeders who appear PERFECT on their websites, are active in their breed club and are by all "standards" of pet people appear to be ethical breeders have the most to hide.

I have been told in the past 3 years " no don't make that public", "no don't discuss why you are considering spaying your dog", "No we didn't test these litters as we have had these lines for decades and all are fine", "Yes I show and have some highly titled dogs on my website but come by and see my non registrable dogs and the puppies i have out of them, you may be interested in these lines" to the insane reasoning behind rehoming dogs out of a kennel with a big story behind it but in reality it is the same path this breeder took last time they wanted to change up their breeding stock, but EVERYONE here pushed for someone to buy from that breeder... EVERYONE!
Thanks to the internet and so many peoples set rules for what to look for in a breeder, one could make their dogs appear extremely 'marketable' <-( yes that is the ACTUAL term said person used)
To be honest, over the past 3 years and the hours I have spent with these breeders and hearing things that made my blood boil and stomach turn I have come to realize that I was happier when i was in the rescue world. But if no one challenges the old ways they do things and operate by raising the bar on them how will anything ever change? Entire litters will remain to be culled, dogs who should never be bred will continue to be bred, and fancy Ch titles that can be bought will continue to wow "consumers" and manipulating them into believing they did the right thing by buying from that breeder. FULL awareness of every aspect of breeding, and rescue needs to be put out in the open and we need to educate those who are shopping for their next pet. You can't convince a miller to stop, the pay out is too good for them, all you can do with current laws is educate the masses, if the dogs don't turn a profit for them, they will find something that does.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 11:35 AM
I didn't write the blog posted in the original post, but it does reflect very closely to how I feel. It is for that reason that I posted it here. This forum gets a lot of traffic and as I mention in my original post that I am hoping it enlightens just one person to reach out to a homeless pet before going to a breeder.

This thread is not intended to point fingers at anybody and I am hoping those who feel compelled to keep posting their believes about "rep" breeders would let me have my thread about the over population of pets.

Once again, this is about education, not pointing fingers.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 11:38 AM
Thank you BenMax for continuing to do what you do. Without you so many more would perish. You posts bring a tear to the eye. :grouphug:
Thank you L4H for posting this on this site. I know it must have given you some pause before you did so. :grouphug:
How many more shelters will have to be built? How many more rescues will have to be formed? How many more people will have to step up and take responsibility for these dogs and cats being born at mills, bybs, and unethical breeders? How many?
And why? Why should they feel they HAVE to be responsible for those millers, bybs, and UBs? Answer is simple - until those groups stop making money on the backs of these unfortunate animals there will always be a need. So freaking sad. So heartbreaking.
The world needs many many many more BenMaxes. Too bad she and her empathy can't be cloned.

Thank you, 14+ :grouphug:. Yes it did give me pause, because I feel like I'm being bullied every time I post about breeders contributing to the overpopulation of pets :cry:. All I want is for animals to stop dying in shelters and abandoned outside to die a slow death.

Masha
February 3rd, 2012, 11:41 AM
Thank you, 14+ :grouphug:. Yes it did give me pause, because I feel like I'm being bullied every time I post about breeders contributing to the overpopulation of pets :cry:. All I want is for animals to stop dying in shelters and abandoned outside to die a slow death.

look at the bright side, the more hits and replies you get to this post, the higher up it moves in the search engines and the mroe likely it becomes that more people will see and read this :)

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 11:48 AM
look at the bright side, the more hits and replies you get to this post, the higher up it moves in the search engines and the mroe likely it becomes that more people will see and read this :)


Good point :thumbs up

Goldfields
February 3rd, 2012, 11:49 AM
Would you get rid of your registered GSD to make room for a rescue, Masha? GSD's are the great dog they are entirely due to dedicated breeders in the past caring about all the attributes you value in them. I do like to give them credit. I wonder if the rescue GSD is going to be sounder than the dog the breeder sold you? You could adopt one and find out I guess?(Or adopt 6 then we'll both be equal on 7 dogs.)
I know plenty of breeders who adore their dogs, it really isn't uncommon. My dogs are not perfect, but I have a 13 year old, a 12 yo, two 10yo's, two 8 yo's, and the latest addition who is only two. EVERY dog I have reared to adulthood has been a much loved and spoilt family member till the day it died, I can give you their ages there also. Sorry if that in any way dispels the myth that heartless breeders only want to make money from their dogs and get rid of them without a second thought.
I know you are sad for the unwanted dogs, everyone is, but I do not understand L4H's insistence that breeders should be rescuing them. I think the breeders who actually produced them should - no arguments on that score , but they are not the ones that get targetted.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 11:54 AM
but I do not understand L4H's insistence that breeders should be rescuing them.

Not sure where you got that from. Would it be great if they did rescue as well as breed, absolutely. AND it would give me more respect to that breeder. That shows that they really do care. I have never INSISTED that they do :confused:.

free
February 3rd, 2012, 12:27 PM
are first airedale was from a breeder the parents and grandparents were show winning dogs. he had severe allergies that we had horrendous vet bills for. are next dog was a mixed breed that we rescued, he must have been abused as he came with issues. that dog loved are family more than i could have imagine. we then rescued another airedale. beau. he is healthier than are first one was. he is also more loving and family oriented.if i had wanted to do agility or other sport he would have been great because of his drive. would i only take a rescue. for sure. it is what you put in you get out.

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 01:04 PM
are first airedale was from a breeder the parents and grandparents were show winning dogs. he had severe allergies that we had horrendous vet bills for. are next dog was a mixed breed that we rescued, he must have been abused as he came with issues. that dog loved are family more than i could have imagine. we then rescued another airedale. beau. he is healthier than are first one was. he is also more loving and family oriented.if i had wanted to do agility or other sport he would have been great because of his drive. would i only take a rescue. for sure. it is what you put in you get out.

So true, just because a dog/cat has a lot of ribbons, doesn't mean the pet is healthy.

I know a highly respected breeder of himalayan's. She's got a room full of ribbons for her cats that she breeds, however, they all seem to have nothing but sinus problems.

Masha
February 3rd, 2012, 01:20 PM
Would you get rid of your registered GSD to make room for a rescue, Masha? GSD's are the great dog they are entirely due to dedicated breeders in the past caring about all the attributes you value in them. I do like to give them credit. I wonder if the rescue GSD is going to be sounder than the dog the breeder sold you? You could adopt one and find out I guess?(Or adopt 6 then we'll both be equal on 7 dogs.)
I know plenty of breeders who adore their dogs, it really isn't uncommon.

lol seriously..?? Of course I would not get rid of my guy! this is an absurd question to say the least. The reason why I would never get rid of him is because I love him and he is part of our family, not because he is a purebred GSD.

I also came to realize that the values I love in him have nothing to do with him being a GSD but rather him being a dog. My in laws have a lab and I grew up with a Poodle and a Dobey, and the traits i loved in all of them were common to all the breeds. They were all loving with the family, not because of their breeds but because of them being a dog.

Next time we are ready to welcome a dog into our home, I guarantee you it will be one that we adopt from a rescue or shelter. I will gladly share with you my experiences then.

I know that in my family and extended family, after owning purebreds, the 100% consensus is 'we will adopt going forward'. Because we realized that what we love in them is them being a dog, not them being a specific look of dog.

I dont know why you are taking this so personally, I have nothing against you. It is great that you love and care for your dogs, but I do not understand why you are trying to argue that rescues are not as good. A general person will read your post tomorrow and change their mind about rescues.... that will be sad.

Masha
February 3rd, 2012, 01:23 PM
we should have a like button so i could like free's post :) so true

14+kitties
February 3rd, 2012, 01:49 PM
I dont know why you are taking this so personally, I have nothing against you. It is great that you love and care for your dogs, but I do not understand why you are trying to argue that rescues are not as good. A general person will read your post tomorrow and change their mind about rescues.... that will be sad.

Masha, I love the way you put things!!! :cloud9:
Seems like every time there is a thread started on rescuing vs breeding we always get the same response. One would figure if there was nothing to feel guilty about one would not respond the way they do. Really folks, this ISN'T about YOU! It is about the BAD breeders who breed dogs continuously and relentlessly. Maybe you've heard about them? They are called PUPPY MILLS, BACK YARD BREEDERS, ETC. They are not called ETHICAL breeders.

THIS is what we (rescuers or just plain ol' people who give a hoot) are fighting against! THIS is what WE want stopped!!!! (graphic images btw)

Love4himies
February 3rd, 2012, 02:22 PM
Masha, I love the way you put things!!! :cloud9:
Seems like every time there is a thread started on rescuing vs breeding we always get the same response. One would figure if there was nothing to feel guilty about one would not respond the way they do. Really folks, this ISN'T about YOU! It is about the BAD breeders who breed dogs continuously and relentlessly. Maybe you've heard about them? They are called PUPPY MILLS, BACK YARD BREEDERS, ETC. They are not called ETHICAL breeders.

THIS is what we (rescuers or just plain ol' people who give a hoot) are fighting against! THIS is what WE want stopped!!!! (graphic images btw)

OH MY FACK!, I think I'm going to be sick. I am bawling now :cry::cry::cry:,this is so very sad. And they call us a civilized society??

Please people, go to shelters and rescues to adopt, please stop getting your pets from breeders, kijiji or pet stores (unless they adopting out on behalf of a shelter. These pets are NO WORSE THAN ONE YOU WOULD GET FROM ANY BREEDER BUT YOU WON'T BE SUPPORTING THAT BREEDER TO CONTINUE! All they want is to be loved.

You forgot one thing, 14+: Those who don't get their cats fixed and let them outside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or dump them!!!!!!!!!!!!

14+kitties
February 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM
OH MY FACK!, I think I'm going to be sick. I am bawling now :cry::cry::cry:,this is so very sad. And they call us a civilized society??

Please people, go to shelters and rescues to adopt, please stop getting your pets from breeders, kijiji or pet stores (unless they adopting out on behalf of a shelter. These pets are NO WORSE THAN ONE YOU WOULD GET FROM ANY BREEDER BUT YOU WON'T BE SUPPORTING THAT BREEDER TO CONTINUE! All they want is to be loved.

You forgot one thing, 14+: Those who don't get their cats fixed and let them outside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or dump them!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry my friend. Sometimes shock therapy is the only thing that gets through. I hate those images too but they are readily available anywhere on line. There are page after page after page of them. :(

It's the dumped cats, the unfixed cats, the "oh, it's past being a cute kitten so we don't want it anymore" cats that I deal with daily. I can't take any more. I have had 4 that were supposed to be fosters dumped on me now. 2 are 11 years old. The other 2 are 4 or 5. I have three others that I have adopted who are FIV+ and are in their own special room. Until people change their attitudes and stop thinking cats are fine on their own things just won't change. It is so bloody sad.

BenMax
February 3rd, 2012, 03:42 PM
Thank you 14+K for posting the picture.
This infact is the REALITY. Hard to see, stomach and we as a society are RESPONSIBLE for this.
Thank you.:grouphug:

chico2
February 3rd, 2012, 06:00 PM
Those pics are gut-wrenching(sp?)it makes me just incredibly sad and furious,I wish I could knock it into peoples heads,that this is murder on a large scale and they are responsible for it:evil:
and no,we are not a civilized society,as long as we treat animals as so much garbage.:cry:

erykah1310
February 3rd, 2012, 11:49 PM
THIS is what we (rescuers or just plain ol' people who give a hoot) are fighting against! THIS is what WE want stopped!!!! (graphic images btw)

I think it should be safe to say that everyone here wants exactly that stopped as well. I sure do!

Goldfields
February 4th, 2012, 02:09 AM
Masha, I love the way you put things!!! :cloud9:
Seems like every time there is a thread started on rescuing vs breeding we always get the same response. One would figure if there was nothing to feel guilty about one would not respond the way they do. Really folks, this ISN'T about YOU! It is about the BAD breeders who breed dogs continuously and relentlessly. Maybe you've heard about them? They are called PUPPY MILLS, BACK YARD BREEDERS, ETC. They are not called ETHICAL breeders.

THIS is what we (rescuers or just plain ol' people who give a hoot) are fighting against! THIS is what WE want stopped!!!! (graphic images btw)

That's an honest answer, thanks. But, as Erykah said, everyone wants it stopped. In the meantime you are just not going to be able to rehome every dog and cat these people, plus all the irresponsible owners in the world, put in shelters. It is impossible, tragic, and sadly, true.

BenMax
February 4th, 2012, 06:36 AM
Goldfields, would it be ok with you if we get back to what was intended in regards to this thread.
It would appear that you have highjacked it and it turned into something that was never intended.
Out of courtesy and respect to the OP, can you do this? No response required.
Thank you.

14+kitties
February 4th, 2012, 08:42 AM
Unnecessary. BM said it all.

chico2
February 4th, 2012, 10:54 AM
You know,we often talk about the atrocities in China and many other countries,but we,as a civilized country are not exactly practising what we preach,we have horrific factory-farms,puppy-mills,butcher seals inhumanely,gass cats/dog,by the thousands.
We allow cats/dogs to be mutilated to suit the unethical owners,our animal-cruelty laws are practically non-existent,etc,etc...are we really so much better???

14+kitties
February 4th, 2012, 03:07 PM
The Starfish Story

Once upon a time, there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work.

One day, as he was walking along the shore, he looked down the beach and saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself at the thought of someone who would dance to the day, and so, he walked faster to catch up.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, and that what he was doing was not dancing at all. The young man was reaching down to the shore, picking up small objects, and throwing them into the ocean.

He came closer still and called out "Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?"

The young man paused, looked up, and replied "Throwing starfish into the ocean."

"I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?" asked the somewhat startled wise man.

To this, the young man replied, "The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die."

Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, "But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!"

At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, "I made a difference to that one!"


Just as in this story we aren't trying to save them all. But we can make a difference to the ones that we do. Every single human can make a difference if they would care to try just a bit.

Love4himies
February 4th, 2012, 03:14 PM
The Starfish Story

Once upon a time, there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work.

One day, as he was walking along the shore, he looked down the beach and saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself at the thought of someone who would dance to the day, and so, he walked faster to catch up.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, and that what he was doing was not dancing at all. The young man was reaching down to the shore, picking up small objects, and throwing them into the ocean.

He came closer still and called out "Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?"

The young man paused, looked up, and replied "Throwing starfish into the ocean."

"I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?" asked the somewhat startled wise man.

To this, the young man replied, "The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die."

Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, "But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!"

At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, "I made a difference to that one!"


Just as in this story we aren't trying to save them all. But we can make a difference to the ones that we do. Every single human can make a difference if they would care to try just a bit.

Perfect! Just perfect.

Please people save that one pet's live and adopt from a shelter or rescue :pray:, you will be rewarded.

chico2
February 4th, 2012, 03:59 PM
Great story Gerrie and so very true!
I just got a bit down in the dumps after those pics yesterday,that's why I wrote what I did.:cry:

14+kitties
February 6th, 2012, 12:18 PM
That's an honest answer, thanks.

L4 - I hope you don't mind if I hijack just for a moment........

Y'know, I was going to leave this comment alone but it's been bothering me - a bit. Not a lot. I really am far too busy with more important issues to allow it to weigh on my mind THAT much. But still - making this particular comment gives me pause to wonder. Does the member who made it believe that when we post anything or answer threads that we are not honest in other cases? Just wondering.

Ever since the great ban of 2011 I have been very hesitant to post much of anything here. I hate feeling like every word I post is being picked apart and analyzed to see if there is maybe some hidden agenda. I'm not alone in feeling this way. And btw - this IS still under the category of a "rant", right? As such, It should be allowed to stay? Do you all think it would be possible for you all to be a little kinder in the words you use as well? I have noticed in the last week or so a few members making comments far far worse than were made back before the great ban. Maybe we could all try extra extra hard to be nicer. Then maybe we could be one big happy family.

:grouphug::grouphug: Thanks for letting me say my piece. Will be interesting to see if it makes it unscathed.

Marty11
February 6th, 2012, 02:56 PM
I just want to say that it is this "Forum" and the great people on it that has convinced me to "Rescue" next pet I want to add to my family. I never realized the number of unwanted animals.....It breaks my heart. :(

BenMax
February 6th, 2012, 04:05 PM
I just want to say that it is this "Forum" and the great people on it that has convinced me to "Rescue" next pet I want to add to my family. I never realized the number of unwanted animals.....It breaks my heart. :(

Marty11 - thank you. It makes this all worth the while then. It is a domino effect. You have learnt this and you will pass it on and so forth. Numbers grow stronger just by keepiing an open heart and mind.
Thank you so much.:thumbs up:grouphug:

Love4himies
February 6th, 2012, 04:36 PM
L4 - I hope you don't mind if I hijack just for a moment........

Y'know, I was going to leave this comment alone but it's been bothering me - a bit. Not a lot. I really am far too busy with more important issues to allow it to weigh on my mind THAT much. But still - making this particular comment gives me pause to wonder. Does the member who made it believe that when we post anything or answer threads that we are not honest in other cases? Just wondering.

Ever since the great ban of 2011 I have been very hesitant to post much of anything here. I hate feeling like every word I post is being picked apart and analyzed to see if there is maybe some hidden agenda. I'm not alone in feeling this way. And btw - this IS still under the category of a "rant", right? As such, It should be allowed to stay? Do you all think it would be possible for you all to be a little kinder in the words you use as well? I have noticed in the last week or so a few members making comments far far worse than were made back before the great ban. Maybe we could all try extra extra hard to be nicer. Then maybe we could be one big happy family.

:grouphug::grouphug: Thanks for letting me say my piece. Will be interesting to see if it makes it unscathed.

You are a God in my eyes, 14+, I don't mind anything you do, because it will always be from the goodness of your wonderful heart :grouphug:

Love4himies
February 6th, 2012, 04:37 PM
I just want to say that it is this "Forum" and the great people on it that has convinced me to "Rescue" next pet I want to add to my family. I never realized the number of unwanted animals.....It breaks my heart. :(

Thank you :grouphug:. :lovestruck:

chico2
February 6th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Believe me,were we ever to get a dog or another cat,without doubt we would go to a shelter:thumbs up

erykah1310
February 6th, 2012, 07:01 PM
My next will most likely be a rescue too, just going to have to be picky on temperament if Malinios or Dutchie and if I don't go with the ringsport dog right away, it will be a Dogo hands down, from a shelter.
I'm NOT against rescue at all.

erykah1310
February 6th, 2012, 07:02 PM
I'm still looking for my shelter Siamese or Him. Its been awhile now but when I reached out back in the day the best help I got here was "Check your local shelter".... Local classifieds have plenty, shelters here not so much

BenMax
February 6th, 2012, 07:06 PM
I'm still looking for my shelter Siamese or Him. Its been awhile now but when I reached out back in the day the best help I got here was "Check your local shelter".... Local classifieds have plenty, shelters here not so much

OMGosh Erykah..the shelters have them. I pull them along with domestics every 2 weeks. Also, there is a rescue that has only purebreds.
If you are seriously looking I can help you. PM me and I will tell you where to go.

Suki (who just passed away) was from a shelter. I also have a lilac point and an oriental red. All from shelters.

Infact I am picking up a pregnant siamese and another adult on Wednesday.

Winston
February 6th, 2012, 07:10 PM
I just wanted to point out something I noticed in this thread and many others that I have read over the years.

All of our differences and sometimes harsh but true words have made a difference!!!

Banned or not banned members we have all contributed in making a difference when it comes to rescuing vs purchasing. I have read over and over again how many people have said that their next pet would be from a rescue or a shelter!!

So kudos to everyone that has a comment or an opinion because it DOES make a difference and all we really can do is try to educate those that dont know or havent learned as we have already!

:sorry: Not trying to highjack!

Cindy

BenMax
February 6th, 2012, 07:22 PM
I just wanted to point out something I noticed in this thread and many others that I have read over the years.

All of our differences and sometimes harsh but true words have made a difference!!!

Banned or not banned members we have all contributed in making a difference when it comes to rescuing vs purchasing. I have read over and over again how many people have said that their next pet would be from a rescue or a shelter!!

So kudos to everyone that has a comment or an opinion because it DOES make a difference and all we really can do is try to educate those that dont know or havent learned as we have already!

:sorry: Not trying to highjack!

Cindy

Well said Winston! Thank you.:thumbs up

Love4himies
February 6th, 2012, 07:45 PM
I just wanted to point out something I noticed in this thread and many others that I have read over the years.

All of our differences and sometimes harsh but true words have made a difference!!!

Banned or not banned members we have all contributed in making a difference when it comes to rescuing vs purchasing. I have read over and over again how many people have said that their next pet would be from a rescue or a shelter!!

So kudos to everyone that has a comment or an opinion because it DOES make a difference and all we really can do is try to educate those that dont know or havent learned as we have already!

:sorry: Not trying to highjack!

Cindy

Good post!

Melinda
February 7th, 2012, 07:34 AM
I'm still looking for my shelter Siamese or Him. Its been awhile now but when I reached out back in the day the best help I got here was "Check your local shelter".... Local classifieds have plenty, shelters here not so much

http://sdg.ontariospca.ca/2-adoptions-cats.shtml

Janelle

14+kitties
February 7th, 2012, 12:00 PM
I'm still looking for my shelter Siamese or Him. Its been awhile now but when I reached out back in the day the best help I got here was "Check your local shelter".... Local classifieds have plenty, shelters here not so much

You were told to "check your local shelter" because I did not have a Siamese or a Himmie. I don't "do" those breeds of cats because that is normally NOT the type of cat that gets the boot around my area. I get the run of the mill kitties that are in desperate need (most times) of a safe place to lay their heads.

I also do not do adoptions for people who live far away. My requirements are that I meet the person, do a home visit, know that the cat will be kept indoors and not declawed, etc. That would not be possible in your case. I believe I may have also suggested a local rescue but seeing as that was so long ago (early last year I believe?) it's hard for me to remember exactly what was said.

Now I am really sorry you seem to be so offended by my saying that but please, I was just starting to really like you. :D Please don't make me change my opinion. ;) (joking of course) I am really sorry you seemed to have taken so much offence to what I said. I thought I had set you straight at the time???

14+kitties
February 7th, 2012, 12:06 PM
You are a God in my eyes, 14+, I don't mind anything you do, because it will always be from the goodness of your wonderful heart :grouphug:

Oh my friend, I am far from being a God. I do what I can but I do not have the capability to turn my back and shut my mouth when someone makes comments that have no merit. It tends to make my blood simmer (I'm getting to old for it to boil any more :D). :grouphug::grouphug: Thank you. The feeling is reciprocated.