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Mounting (sorry) behavior in dogs

renegaderuby
October 12th, 2011, 08:33 PM
Neutered Colby is still trying to mount a Spayed Ruby? Ruby is the most "submissive" outta the WHOLE crew. And "colby" is the most submissive boy outta the boys.

Any ideas? Just trying to figure out why he's doing it. Dominance dosent seem likely because of the above listed reason. And it sure isnt hormones as they were taken eight months ago. :shrug:

Side note,
toby (our currently unneutered) only shows intrest in our (currently) unspayed saydee. (yes they are both due to go in soon). so I'm really scrathing my head as to why a neuter is trying to mount a spayed. LOL

Melinda
October 13th, 2011, 06:48 AM
my Brina, spayed since 5 months old (now 6 yrs) mounts my soap......my bottle of dish detergent and any other nice smelly thing....her trainer said its because of her devotion to me and all those smells to her, signal love and mommy......so I wouldn't worry about it too much

millitntanimist
October 13th, 2011, 09:56 AM
I read an article a few months ago that talks about mounting as "play sex." If you think about it, most of the behavior we see in dogs is a ritualization of wild behavior. Chasing games are play hunting, wrestling is play fighting, tugging on toys and chewing is play feeding. It's only natural that sex would make its way in there somewhere. Juvenile animals everywhere engage in mock adult behavior, and there is a lot of research to suggest that dogs behave more like the juveniles of different wild canids.

I know it's a little embarrassing, but it's totally natural behavior. If you don't like it, you can absolutely re-direct it when it happens until you it's extinguished. When the play stops being fun he won't do it anymore :)

Rgeurts
October 13th, 2011, 10:35 AM
LOL RR, why sorry? It's a natural thing for dogs to do. As "gross" as this is, Thorin, up until a couple of years ago, would mount Shaun's leg, but only when we were in bed playing with him. He would also play with his big stuffies, and mount them. I don't think it has anything to do with being altered or unaltered, they still have that instinct :)

violagirl
October 13th, 2011, 12:39 PM
I have also heard it can be way to express excitement. Just one of those things the brain jumps to when they are all revved up. My friends dog mounts any new stuffed toys and my females mount each other and the male when playing.

The oldest female also tries to mount other dogs she meets. Only if she is in a hyper state of mind at the time.

renegaderuby
October 13th, 2011, 04:22 PM
Said sorry, because I felt it was a really "silly" thing to ask. As its not exactly a "problem". It was more of a curiousosity thing.

Well mili's point makes the most sense in this situation for me. Because it starts out as "play" (the whole group usually)...and then he gets really excited and "happy" ..and then he mounts her. I've also seen saydee mount ruby during play as well.

Thanks for the ideas everyone. Nice to know he's just being a normal "happy" pup. (well not really a pup he's almost two now).

Goldfields
October 13th, 2011, 09:26 PM
This is not a reccommendation, just an observation,, okay? :) The male dogs that I have owned that have actually been used at stud never go back to mounting legs(if that was their thing beforehand), I guess they've discovered their true purpose in life. LOL.

Dekka
October 14th, 2011, 04:46 PM
Dominance is almost never the reason. Ususally cause its fun lol. I have one bitch who loves mounting young dogs/older puppies. If they seem uncomfortable she stops. She also mounts all girls in heat.

As an aside I had a mare once who would mount and hump other mares when the others were in heat.

If you don't like it distract your dog and train a cue to stop the behaviour before it starts. With Dekka its 'don't hump the puppy' lol. (I don't care if she humps the girls in heat...)

renegaderuby
October 14th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Right now we are working on "get off" in a firm tone..and then..good boy, praise, maybe a treat when he does "get off " ruby. Poor ruby. she just looks up at me like.."mom..get this kid off me..please". LOL

Thanks everyone..felt so "silly" for bringing it up. Now I feel "less" silly.

TokyoParrot
October 22nd, 2011, 12:30 PM
Dominance is almost never the reason. Ususally cause its fun lol. ...[snip]...
If you don't like it distract your dog and train a cue to stop the behaviour before it starts. With Dekka its 'don't hump the puppy' lol.

Wow, I got lucky finding this thread... I was just about to post asking for advice about something similar.

I adopt elderly and handicapped dogs. I currently have 12, all small-- ranging from 1.4 kg to 3.6 kg in size. Mainly I have blind or nearly blind, elderly Chihuahuas, aged 13 to 18, with a couple of other handicaps and breeds sprinkled in there for good measure.

I got three younger "likely to be unadoptable" (handicapped) breeder dogs 2 weeks ago, after a puppy mill bankruptcy (ages 9, 8, and 1.5).

I have never had a young dog before and I'm totally at a loss what to do with the youngest. The 1.5 year old is a Chin, blind, who is a bundle of energy and chews on e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. She has no interest in toys whatsoever. She has not been spayed yet but we have an appointment for that next Friday.

Among the problems we're facing is that she mounts four of my other dogs. I was hoping that it was a dominance thing, as that would disappear once the "pecking order" had been decided, but the vet says that it's just play, and normal for a young dog her age.

While she is most definitely having a great time, it's absolutely traumatic for the older dogs she targets. She targets my 17.5-yr-old toy poodle (female) constantly. She nibbles the poodle's fur, usually at the back of her neck, and elsewhere, then mounts her while continuing to nibble.

The poodle has more cancers than you can shake a stick at, and while not in pain or in a hospice condition, she wants to sleep and just enjoy the sunshine and not be stalked by the 1.5-yr-old Chin. I expect her to go downhill at some point over the next year or so, considering her age, and want to keep the house "calm" to the extent possible.

The Chin also targets a 15-yr-old (female) and a 14-yr-old (male) Chihuahua, who both panic. One screams in terror and attempts to throw the Chin off, usually to no avail; the other panics and freezes. (The Chin also targets a 4th dog, but he is quite good at giving her the brushoff, so I think he is essentially OK.)

My questions are this:
(1) Can the Chin reasonably be trained out of mounting the others? I read Dekka's advice to "train a cue to stop it before it starts" above but I don't understand what this means in concrete terms. (I'm going to go run a search for this in the forum after I post this.)

How successful can one expect to be? And, don't I then need to find some other way to work off all her energy, if she is not allowed to burn it off by playing the only way she knows how? Is it possible to "teach" a dog to play with toys?

(2) Should I instead give up on her as being a bit young/inappropriate for our family? Honestly speaking, energy-wise she is not really a match for us.

She has no interest in toys and freaks out at harnesses/collars so she also does not go for a walk, so mounting is maybe the only way she has to use up her excess energy. I suggested training her to use the harness (so that we could go out for walks to use up the excess energy), but the vet said that we'd have to go REALLY far to make much impact on her energy level, and emphasized that she was acting totally age-appropriate.

(3) Should I instead try adopting one more youngin', to see if they can play with each other and wear each other out, or is that not how it works? (I'm assuming that isn't how it works, but just throwing the idea out there.)


The youngest dog I have ever had until now was 7 years old, so I really don't have any knowledge or experience with young ones.


The rescue group thinks she is pretty much unadoptable because of her blindness, but she's tiny for a Chin (1.8 kg) and has rare coloring (some black, but mostly brown patches) so I think she has at least somewhat of a chance even if I request that they rehome her. On the other hand, the 8 and 9 year old I got from that same puppy mill really like her, and one is particularly attached to her.

Also, there were 300 dogs pulled out of that puppy mill, so it is likely that she would get passed over by potential adopting families. None of the other (non-handicapped) Chins available from that breeder have been adopted either, so maybe not a popular breed.

Sorry to have written a book. If anyone has read this far and has any advice for me, I'd appreciate your insights. I haven't figured out what to do about the chewing thing either, but it's the mounting of the elderly dogs that is the deal breaker here, so overcoming that is my big priority.

renegaderuby
October 22nd, 2011, 02:32 PM
Just a bump, so that your guestion will stick out , and others may be able to help you. It may be a good idea to have your own thread tho...so others can post thier thoughts on your paticular situation without mine getting in the way though. No worries...it dosent bother me a bit that you posted on mine...I just want you to be able to get the most responses possible! Good luck!

Dekka
October 23rd, 2011, 11:15 PM
What does she do before she starts humping?

Dekka gets (for lack of a better descriptor) a sly look on her face and sidles up to the humpee. That is when I give the cue. BEFORE she mounts the dog.

Give the little one time, she might like toys if she is introduced the them repeatedly (ie you making them seem like the.most.fun.evar!) being a puppy mill dog she has never learnt to play with them. I recently got a young dog who has lived in a kennel (working dog owner, not a bad owner) most of her life. She has no idea about toys but wants to play. She will get there.

This is directed for people who want to be able to use toys for training, but it works in general. http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm

I would also teach her to settle. Have her drag, when supervised, a very light leash *which would help with the whole harness leash issue. She gets all wound up you can give her a time out by throwing the handle over the nearest door knob, or solid chair etc. Let her go when she minds her manners.

IME most high energy dogs need to learn self control and how to occupy themselves vs more exercise. I have JRTs and whippets who can deal quite well if I am in a crunch time like mid terms and exams. (yay for beign a mature student and having dogs/family/horses and a full time schedule) They know how to settle.

Longblades
October 24th, 2011, 10:06 AM
Not only can and will neutered dogs mount but they can also tie. Or try to. You might want to redirect simply to prevent possible injury to either party if the tie is successful or even if the attempt is rough. We have a Poppa Bear and the boy has never mounted anything other than Poppa. We started him on it when he was about 10 weeks old.

Re the dominance aspect. In our family we were all shocked and surprised when my sister's spayed 1.5 year old girl mounted my male dog. My dog had the nerve to get between her and Grandma for some pets from Grandma and the spayed girl was obviously trying to put my male in his place. Grandma belongs to her, in her eyes. LOL, I guess we really shouldn't have laughed.

Dekka
October 24th, 2011, 08:35 PM
Why is it 'obvious' the dog was being put in its place. I have never noticed that its universal that dogs being humped feel 'punished'. A snark, a snar a growl.. sure. But I have known dogs who enjoy being the humpee, or dogs who take turns.

I think it stems from our (Human) issues around sex and percived sex in equalities. Being 'on top' or the 'doer' is seen as dominating and aggressive. But dogs don't look at the world through human eyes/morals.

I can think of other reasons a dog when stressed (over another dog getting a resourse that is normally 'theirs') might hump, pee, chew etc things. But that doesn't mean its dominance.. its stress.

marko
October 25th, 2011, 12:00 PM
Yup this all sounds normal to me as well and occasionally my neutered cat tries to mount my spayed cat. My spayed cat even seems to "ask for it" but all my male cat will do is mount her and "air hump".

Just in case anyone is curious - I recorded a podcast on this EXACT ISSUE with tenderfoot training. Feel free to take a listen by clicking the play button on the page that follows the link below.

HUMPING AND MOUNTING BEHAVIOR IN DOGS – PET PODCAST #23 – INTERVIEW WITH TENDERFOOT TRAINING

http://www.pets.ca/blog/pet-podcast/humping-and-mounting-behavior-in-dogs-pet-podcast-23-interview-with-tenderfoot-training/

TokyoParrot
October 29th, 2011, 11:11 PM
Sorry to be slow to respond to everyone's helpful comments-- came down with a nasty cold and have been in bed all week. :sick:

Dekka gets (for lack of a better descriptor) a sly look on her face and sidles up to the humpee. That is when I give the cue. BEFORE she mounts the dog.

OK, I need to start doing that before she mounts. She most definitely gives hints that she will be starting something-- starts aggressively nibbling the fur of the humpee. It's very obvious what her intentions are.

Just calling out her name is enough to make her stop and stare at me, but I need to teach a cue like "Off," is that correct?

Give the little one time, she might like toys if she is introduced the them repeatedly (ie you making them seem like the.most.fun.evar!) being a puppy mill dog she has never learnt to play with them.

Hopefully these will help with the gnawing issues too. She's like a hamster, constantly chewing on things. She gnawed the wood trim off my walls at exactly face level sometime when I wasn't looking. :( I was shocked-- have never had a dog who did that before.


This is directed for people who want to be able to use toys for training, but it works in general. http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm

What a great link! Thank you so much! I'm going to go boil a rope toy in chicken giblet juice right now and get started!


In other news, I took the Chin to the vet on Friday to get he spayed, but the vet says she is still too sickly to risk surgery. We didn't do bloodwork, but he was judging from her skin issues (healing nicely, but not healed yet) and just overall feeling for the situation. He wants me to wait a year (!!!) to see if her hormones are in balance and if she goes into heat twice a year. He says a 1.5-yr-old shouldn't be this sickly looking.

I'll take the other two (males) in next week for the snip. Those two are even sicklier-looking, but since they are males the surgery will not be as invasive, so hopefully we'll get the green light. Very much looking forward to a drop in testosterone in both.

Marko, really enjoying the podcast! I had three dogs howling at the recorded yelps at the beginning of the broadcast, so they seem to be enjoying it too.

Longblades, what does "tie" mean? It means "do the wild thing"? One of the un-neutered boys is most definitely actively trying to make little Chins. When he gets atop the female Chin, the other un-neutered male gets jealous and then gets atop the first one to wrestle him off, so three dogs all stacked up. Bit of a mess....

growler~GateKeeper
October 30th, 2011, 11:43 PM
Hopefully these will help with the gnawing issues too. She's like a hamster, constantly chewing on things. She gnawed the wood trim off my walls at exactly face level sometime when I wasn't looking. :( I was shocked-- have never had a dog who did that before.

Has she had her teeth looked at? Possibly an adult tooth hasn't fully come through yet or there is a broken/cracked one she is chewing at to try to relieve the pressure?

Some dogs though just seem to be chewers & need more appropriate things to chew on :).

Longblades, what does "tie" mean? It means "do the wild thing"? One of the un-neutered boys is most definitely actively trying to make little Chins. When he gets atop the female Chin, the other un-neutered male gets jealous and then gets atop the first one to wrestle him off, so three dogs all stacked up. Bit of a mess....

When dogs mate the male genitals swell, called the tie, to prevent the dogs from separating before the deed is done, in order to further procreation. If the dogs tie and someone tries to physically separate the dogs or the dogs try to separate before it's finished, there will be injury to both. As Longblades mentions this can also happen with neutered dogs.