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What kind of rash do I have?

Myka
October 11th, 2011, 04:09 PM
My dog Roxy has been developing a rash. I adopted her just under 3 months ago. She came from a farm in Alberta. The rash started developing not too long after that. It started on her chest and armpit area, and is now all over her body. The rash is very itchy, and her skin is flaky on each "blemish". Some blemishes are a bit crusty (symptom or from scratching I'm not sure). Roxy has also had a few episodes in the last week or so of excessive drooling...watery drool, not slimy. It will just drip, drip, drip from the corners of her mouth and make puddles. She has also had a day here and there of liquid diarrhea, but not chronic.

Roxy's little buddy Peewee was treated with antibiotics for a bacterial infection of his intestine about a month ago. Roxy didn't seem to catch that at the time, but maybe this is related?

Roxy is up to date on her vaccinations, has been in contact with "strange" dogs, goes to dog park, etc. She has also changed food from Iams and a rice & hamburger based homemade food to Orijen (and this month now Acana...not grain-free). Someone suggested to me that Roxy could be detoxing off the old food causing the rash. I am considering switching back to Iams just to see if the rash diminishes. She isn't scratching herself, but will fall over in enjoyment if I give her scratches.

I would like to try an antihistamine for a few days or a week to see if it is an allergic reaction or something else and then go from there. Before I do that, I would like some input. Does anyone know dosage and how long I can treat her for? I would like to treat her for a week, or maybe improvement would show up sooner?

Here are some photos...the dark ones show how her hair is raised where the blemishes are, and the light photos show the rash on her chest where it is easily visible. The last photo shows the scaly skin.

When you see the photos without the background history I just gave, what's your first reaction? Does the history make you think something else? I ask the different questions because so much has changed in Roxy's life that it is hard to pinpoint things. Food? Grass? Laundry detergent? Parasite? ???

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Oct112011.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Oct1120112.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Oct1120113.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Oct1120114.jpg

hazelrunpack
October 11th, 2011, 05:45 PM
It looks like a pretty severe allergic reaction to me. I don't think I'd wait to take her to a vet, Myka.

Myka
October 11th, 2011, 05:53 PM
Hazel she already has an appointment. :)

I don't think it looks like allergies though...usually allergies are more of a fine rash with smaller blemishes, no?

renegaderuby
October 11th, 2011, 10:34 PM
I second the "allergic" reaction to something.
I've seen several different versions of allergic rash/reactions.
It could be somethign complicated like "food" issues, or it could simply be the laundry detergent on her bed, or your own clothes (i assume you snuggle and hug your new pup..lol).
usually (although not always) if its under the skin (red dots , that dissapear when you push on them) its usually an "internal" agent (something ingested, or gone INTO the body in some way).
If the bumps are raised, and or on the OUTER layer or skin (and the redness does not dissapear when you press on them) its an outside agent (something she's come in contact with or laid on, or has sprayed onto her...ect.

This is not always true...there are a few acceptions. But that is the general rule of thumb I've been told.

From what I'm seeing on the photos, you have more of a "contact" issue than an "ingested" issue.

Try to contact her old owner and find out if she's ever had this before.
And then ask her what all she "used' on her.
Start listing ALL the changes you've made. (shampoo, flea meds, any kind of spray, laundry detergent, even a humans perfume can set her skin off if she's snuggled and such alot).

Ruby once had an attrocious looking rash on her belly, and I was racking my brain on HOW , WHAT ..ect. Then I realised...I'd used a "different" solution to clean the carpet than I usually do. I carpet cleaned it all out with several doses of hot water...and gave her benedryl. She cleared right up. She also will sneeze her head off, if I use a paticular carpet powder or spray fabreeze. I have to put her outside to spray the fabreeze and keep her OUT of the room that has the carpet powder (resolve moist powder stuff).

If you ask her previous owner about all her "things" she used. And then compare it to the list of yours. It will give you a good starting point. And if nothing else..you can give the list to your vet..and they can tick off the "highly unlikelys" and at least give you a good shove in the right direction.

GOOD LUCK. I know its frustrating to be so HAPPY they are there, and WHAM...health issues.

Myka
October 11th, 2011, 11:20 PM
Thanks for the reply Ruby. :)

I pushed on the spots and they stay red when I push them.

Some ideas: I use Tide Free & Clear detergent and Seventh Generation "Natural" Fabric Softener with Eucalyptus and Lavender Essential Oils. She lays on wool blankets which are on memory foam. I haven't shampooed the carpets since last fall. She loves to lay on the lawn. I spray around the house including dog beds once or twice a week Rocky Mountain Soap Company Home Refresh Mist in Ylang Ylang scent "100% natural". I have bathed her 3 times with Earth Bath Mango Tango, but she hasn't been bathed in at least 2 weeks now.

The only things that Roxy is in heavy contact with daily are her beds and the lawn. She doesn't really lay on the carpets. As the weather is colder she is laying on her beds more now rather than being outside all day. The one she lays on the most isn't wool, but she just started sleeping on wool at night about 2 weeks ago. I will see what the vet says, but maybe I will try removing the wool.

I hope it isn't her food because I have been sticking to Champion Foods with her, and just ordered 3-30lb bags of Acana Wild Prairie grain-free. If it is the food then switching between the different Champion foods is probably not going to solve the issue. I switched away from Orijen in search of a lower protein diet. I tried the Acana Adult for one bag, and decided I am not comfortable feeding grains. Roxy got a lot worse in this time, but there were other things (like more wool) going on too. Roxy also gets 2500mg Wild Salmon Oil daily, and a dollop of plain yogurt. She gets Tripett for a week here and there which is how long it takes to go through a can.

Roxy has nasty, nasty gas the last couple days. :yuck:

renegaderuby
October 12th, 2011, 12:40 AM
If they didnt go away when you pushed < i'm almost 100 % positive its something she has come in contact with. (and not injested or had enter her body)
Also...just because a product is "all natural" dosent meant they cant have a allergic reaction to it. (learned that the hard way).
Didnt mean that in a know it all...smart aleck way > (sorry if it read that way).
As to the detergent... even though its free and clear..its possible there is "some sort of agent" she is having a reaction to...or the fabric softner.

No telling. I'd just eliminate possible suspects , until you find what it is.
But again..I'm no expert..and It could totally be something else alltogether.
For your sake (and hers...I hope that she isnt the few pups that has what looks to be a external reaction, but its actually an internal agent aka food or what not) all that swithcing does tend to get EXPENSIVE.

Crossing fingers you and vet figure it out soon, and get poor icthy some relieve. :)

Myka
October 12th, 2011, 01:54 AM
No, not smart aleck...I know what you mean. I just wanted you all to know I wasn't using harsh chemical sprays and detergents. I hope it is the bedding/detergent...that would be easiest to change!

The vet talked about using Cortisone for allergic issues (which I'm not interested in at this point), and suggested that Benedryl used on dogs may help her feel better, but does little to calm allergic reactions. He also talked about parasites like Mange and other things she might have picked up in her farm life. Although Roxy showed up with no signs, it was only a couple days before I noticed the rash starting.

Marty11
October 12th, 2011, 07:20 AM
Couple of questions for you. How old is your dog? Is she chewing her feet? Scratching her ears? Are her eyes watery? Did she by chance just get vaccinated? One suggestion from a vet was to rinse my dog with clear water every night to get the "allergens" off. You could try the Acana lamb and apple (it's a different protein) chicken is the first on the list for allergies. My dog showed signs at 6 mths of age and it has never been resolved. :( She's better though. Benedryl never worked, steriods did (use at last resort) Atopica made her very sick. Yes I would remove the wool for sure. Oh and I got this spray "dermacool" which gave her some instant relief.

Myka
October 12th, 2011, 10:37 AM
Roxy is 6 1/2. Not chewing her feet. Her ears are cropped (I didn't do it!). She isn't scratching or chewing anywhere, but is obviously very itchy as even a light touch makes her go into "please give me scratches" mode. Her eyes aren't watery, but they do get "eye boogers" a little more than the average dog I would say. She was vaccinated in March 2011.

I don't think chicken would be an allergen as she was eating Iams MiniChunks (green bag) when I got her. Here are the lovely ingredients:

Chicken, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Flavor, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Caramel, Flax Meal, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract.

Myka
October 12th, 2011, 12:19 PM
I took Roxy's wool beds away from her lastnight and gave her cotton to sleep on. Her rash is much better today! So I cancelled the Vet appointment, although she is still visiting the Vet Tech to get her anal glands drained.

I have my fingers crossed that this is the problem and not a coincidence!

Marty11
October 12th, 2011, 01:45 PM
I believe food allergies can come at anytime. However seeing that she's 6 is a lot better than 6 mths. The fact that she isn't chewing herself is great too. Sounds like a contact reaction, you could try the benedryl, ask your vet tech the dose. :fingerscr I hope it gets solved.

renegaderuby
October 12th, 2011, 03:00 PM
Yes benedryl is NOT the solve all. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it dosent. For ruby...it worked. But I have another "itcher" and we've never found what he's reacting to...and have had to go the cortizone way a few times. Although right now he's cleared up. It seems to only happen in summer .

And people say animals are cheaper and easier than children. HA!

Marty11
October 12th, 2011, 04:26 PM
I had a boxer once that broke out into hives from "salt and vinegar chips"
With the raised bumps it seems like hives sort of thing. Benedryl did nothing for my dog except make her sleep.

renegaderuby
October 12th, 2011, 07:03 PM
I had a boxer once that broke out into hives from "salt and vinegar chips"
With the raised bumps it seems like hives sort of thing. Benedryl did nothing for my dog except make her sleep.

LOL..love those chips! yeah benedryl just makes toby sleep too :D

Myka
October 12th, 2011, 09:30 PM
The Vet Tech wouldn't give me a dose for Benedryl...said a Vet would have to look at her. Oh well, Roxy seems much better now and the Vet Tech didn't seem worried about what is left of the rash. I will give it a couple of days sans wool and see how she does.

Myka
October 14th, 2011, 02:27 PM
Ok, well I don't think the wool is the problem. I gave both dogs a bath yesterday and washed their beds. Roxy's rash is no worse today, but I'm going to figure out a different laundry soap anyway. Would plain washing soda be a good option?

Myka
October 17th, 2011, 09:52 PM
I'm pretty sure the wool was not the answer. The doesn't appear to be much (if any) improvement. She doesn't appear "bumpy" all over her body now, but has a lot of flaky, thick feeling skin that feels warm and moist to the touch.

I am wondering a bit about it being a minor mange infestation. She doesn't have any bald spots, but her fur is thin on her chest, and she is losing a lot of hair. She has moist flaky skin near the edges of her ear canal (like the side of her head). Her ears are cropped really short so she wouldn't have the tell tale crusty mange ears. The little ear tips that she does have don't seem to be affected. I'm looking at pics on Google, and some of them look similar...the blemishes do at least. She also has stinky, greasy, wet dog smell just a day or two after she's bathed where I would expect her to smell nice for a week or so after a bath. She smells like she hasn't been bathed in a year.

Bacterial infection sounds pretty similar too from doing Google searches. Hmm.
The bacterial infections are usually caused by bacteria that are part of the normal flora of the skin (e.g. Staphylococcus intermedius). For this reason the infection is not contagious to other animals. In dogs that have abnormal skin (e.g. allergies) the bacteria increase in number and cause red bumps (papules) and rancid odor. Some dogs with bacterial skin infections also develop excessive shedding, patchy hair loss and scaling.

Stinky skin: http://www.petplace.com/dogs/skin-discharge-or-odor-in-dogs/page1.aspx

Demodex mange: http://www.petplace.com/dogs/demodicosis-red-mange-in-dogs/page1.aspx

Sarcoptic mange: http://www.petplace.com/dogs/sarcoptic-mange-in-dogs/page1.aspx



I just might have to take her to the vet...

Poor girl. :(

Marty11
October 18th, 2011, 07:21 AM
"Seborrhea" I've been throught it all. Greasy like coat, smelly, flaky, starts with bumps.

Myka
October 18th, 2011, 01:25 PM
I will Google this, thanks for the input!

Myka
October 18th, 2011, 07:49 PM
Ok so it seems like Seborrhea is more of a symptom than a disease, or at least a condition whose onset is triggered by something else (like allergies or hypothyroidism, etc). It does sound pretty darn close though. Roxy is actually scratching herself now.

I booked a vet appointment for Saturday.

renegaderuby
October 22nd, 2011, 01:34 PM
Ok so it seems like Seborrhea is more of a symptom than a disease, or at least a condition whose onset is triggered by something else (like allergies or hypothyroidism, etc). It does sound pretty darn close though. Roxy is actually scratching herself now.

I booked a vet appointment for Saturday.



Well, its saturday...so how did it go??? :fingerscr it was something simple and shes already on the mend!

Myka
October 22nd, 2011, 01:44 PM
So in the 4 days waiting for the vet appointment the rash got waaaaaay worse. The worst areas have quite a bit of thinning hair, lots of red flaky skin pretty much all over but the worst places are between her front legs, the front/side of her rib cage, ears, and around the backside of her thighs. A few of the blemishes are gooey crusty (like minor infection starting).

The difference is that she has been kenneled during the day (for 4-6 hours), so maybe laying on her irritated skin is bothering her. Maybe it needs to be able to air out. Not sure...but it's a lot worse now.

The vet did skin scrapings and couldn't find any parasites, nor any fungi, abnormal bacteria, yeast or anything like that. So we are treating for sarcoptic mange as it is difficult to confirm via scrapings. We are using Revolution drops for her and Peewee (he has no symptoms as this point). We would like to use Ivermectin, but I am not sure of Roxy's history so we are worried a bit about heartworm (not likely, but why risk it?). Seeing as there isn't heartworm in this area the blood has to be sent out for heartworm testing, so we decided to just go the safe route with Revolution. Revolution isn't as effective for sarcoptic mange as Ivermectin, but if this is the problem we should be able to see a difference at which point we can do the blood test and switch to Ivermectin if the assumed mange needs a good kick in the butt. Revolution on its own might do the trick. Roxy is getting a daily dose of oral Cephalexin (antibiotics) 2x500 mg to prevent a serious infection of the blemishes which could occur seeing as the blemishes are covering so much of her body. Roxy is also getting a once a week bath in Hexadene shampoo which should be fairly effective against mange, and is also a general antiseptic, antifugal, and antibacterial shampoo.

The vet is not suspecting allergies at this point. She thinks that these treatments are a good place to start. I agree. She laughed when I told her I already did skin scrapings (I have a microscope) and didn't find anything. :laughing:

So...pill the dog, bath the dog, and add drops to her neck. Should be fun...

renegaderuby
October 22nd, 2011, 01:59 PM
Well, good to know your vet is not suspecting allergies. As that is more difficult to treat than the mange. Although mange is a pain in the arse to deal with too..its at least more easily managed I think. Maybe the lesser of two evils I suppose.
It sure looked like an allergic reaction to me...in the pics...but...you never can tell. I'm not a vet..and I've never claimed to be. LOL :)
You did your OWN skin scraping? Now THAT is devotion ! :D

Myka
October 22nd, 2011, 02:11 PM
I would much rather deal with mange than allergies, I agree - the lesser of the evils for sure. Pictures never tell the whole story, and I can see why anyone would guess allergies. It very well could be...we are just at the beginning right now. Yes, I did my own scrapings...I had to wait for the appointment and I got impatient and looked myself. Hehe

Oh, and thanks for asking how it went...I was posting when you posted that! :)

renegaderuby
October 22nd, 2011, 04:24 PM
I would much rather deal with mange than allergies, I agree - the lesser of the evils for sure. Pictures never tell the whole story, and I can see why anyone would guess allergies. It very well could be...we are just at the beginning right now. Yes, I did my own scrapings...I had to wait for the appointment and I got impatient and looked myself. Hehe

Oh, and thanks for asking how it went...I was posting when you posted that! :)

Well should the fur be on the other paw,I'm sure you'd ask as well. So..:D

Myka
October 22nd, 2011, 10:41 PM
Roxy puked about 1-2 hours after I gave her the antibiotic pills. It may have been because she was excited from DH coming home (he is gone for a couple weeks at a time so when he comes home everyone is excited). I couldn't see the pills, but I could see the weiner I use to hide the pills. Try again tomorrow.

Myka
October 27th, 2011, 11:18 AM
I wish I would have taken pictures of the rash when it was at its worst, but I forgot.

However, the rash is almost gone. The redness is gone. The crusties are still there, but I think it will just take some time for the new skin to grow in. She has one foot where the pads were hot, red, and swollen a couple days ago, but that is improved as well although not gone completely. I will finish off the antibiotics and give her another Hexadene bath on Saturday. Peewee still seems fine.

Marty11
October 27th, 2011, 11:54 AM
Pls keep us posted. I went through and still going through a similar road with my boston terrier. I have been home cooking for over 3 months with no success again. It will be interesting to see what happens after the antibiotics are finished.

Myka
October 27th, 2011, 09:40 PM
Yeah, I'm worried the rash will come back after the antibiotics are done. :frustrated: However, I am REALLY hoping it will all be ok now! :D

ev.o
November 2nd, 2011, 03:36 PM
How's Roxy doing? My guy's rash looked exactly the same and just got put on Cephalexin too.... hoping it clears everything up.

Myka
November 2nd, 2011, 06:47 PM
Roxy is doing really well now. Last week both her front feet were swollen, hot, and irritated looking for about 5 days. They are better now, but strange as this symptom occured well after treatment began. Roxy has 2 more days of Cephalexin antibiotic and then I will be holding my breath for a week or two wondering if the rash will come back.

Myka
November 23rd, 2011, 09:33 AM
Hmm, well Roxy is having some troubles again. Her ears are bothering her now. She has had dirty ears since I got her, I thought it was just the fact that her ears are cropped and gunk gets inside. I use a Q-tip to clean as much as I can near the outside of her ear (I don't stick it in her head). She holds still for this, and I grapple her and make sure I brace my wrist against her so that if she does move the Q-tip won't get shoved into her ear. I get quite a lot of brown, greasy gunk out of her ears, and some flaky skin as well.

The last couple days she has been shaking her head more than usual and scratching at her left ear in particular. So I took a look yesterday and it is wet looking in there and red with some broken skin. Not swollen red, but raw red. So I cleaned her ears as much as I could which seemed to give her a lot of relief. Her ears look less irritated today, but I'm still worried about the raw skin (her scratching couldn't get that deep, it's not from abrasion). I also noticed she has crusty, flaky skin at the corners of her mouth. Maybe from chewing on her Nylabone?

Argh! Any ideas?

She also stinks like anal glands all the time. http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=79415

I've decided I'm going to put her back on Iams kibble, and try to get the recipe for the homemade food she was eating before. This is the food combo she was on when I adopted her, and she didn't seem to have these issues then, so I'm going to try that and see what happens. I can't imagine a dog doing better on Iams than Acana grain-free, but I'm at a loss!

Why can't dogs pick a better time to spend our money? I'm starting up a home business, and with Christmas coming...? Ack!!

Marty11
November 23rd, 2011, 11:04 AM
My golden had that guck all the time in his ears. You'll probably have to get "Surolan" ear drops. This is another classic sign of "allergies" sorry. If you keep up with good ear cleaner, it will help keep it away.

Myka
November 23rd, 2011, 07:17 PM
Marty, thanks for the input. I actually do have Surolan drops, but they expired in 2005. :o I can't imagine it would do any harm to try it? Her ears look much better today than they did yesterday. Maybe I just let them get too dirty...? I picked up a bag of Iams today too and mixed some in with her Acana dinner. :frustrated:

Myka
December 1st, 2011, 12:11 PM
Well, the rash is back. This time it is starting on her soft belly skin (where there is little hair). She has also been losing hair around her eyes and mouth. She doesn't seem to be itchy. Her ears seem a lot better since using Surolan and keeping them cleaner with Q-tips.

Roxy is onto the Iams full time now, and so far no difference. However, after opening the bag of Iams Mini Chunks I realize that she must have been on the Iams Toy Breed (smaller pieces) which is a slightly different recipe, so once she is done this small bag I will buy the Toy Breed stuff. I will leave her on it for a month to see if there is any improvement.

Marty11
December 1st, 2011, 02:56 PM
Sorry it's not better for you. Watch out for the Q-tips, I used a baby cloth and my finger so you cannot go deep into the ear canal. Use regular ear cleaner from the vet after your treatment of Surolan. Prevention works.:thumbs up

Myka
December 1st, 2011, 07:31 PM
Thanks Marty. I am very careful with the Q-tips. She holds still for it too. I make sure I brace my arm against her head so that if she does move the Q-tip won't go in further. I wouldn't be able to get much with a cloth.

Myka
December 9th, 2011, 11:46 AM
Well, maybe the Iams is working! Roxy's rash is barely noticeable today. If Roxy's skin continues to look good on the Iams I will keep her on it for a couple more weeks to flush the system and then start to add some things in to figure out what it is that she's reacting to. The obvious thing lacking in Iams that is strongly represented in Orijen and Acana is fish. I can easily add this in by itself by using fish oil. The next obvious thing would be potatoes and peas (although not likely).

I washed the dog beds this morning, so if there is a reaction to that I should see it by tonight as she lays on her beds a lot.

Myka
December 9th, 2011, 11:51 AM
Iams ProActive Health Adult Small & Toy breed ingredients:
Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Chicken Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Flax Meal, Caramel, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Calcium Carbonate, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Rosemary Extract.


Acana Wild Prairie ingredients:
Chicken meal, russet potato, boneless chicken, boneless walleye, whitefish meal, peas, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E), sun-cured Alfalfa, chicken liver, boneless Lake Whitefish, whole eggs, salmon oil, sweet potato, pumpkin, spinach, turnip greens, tomatoes, carrots, apples, organic kelp, cranberries, blueberries, juniper berries, black currants, chicory root, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, lavender flowers, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, zinc proteinate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, iron proteinate, vitamin B6, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, selenium, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

Marty11
December 9th, 2011, 03:31 PM
I don't get it?:shrug: But if it works that cool......I would definately add real cooked meat, I have given my dogs sardines in oil once in a while too.

Myka
December 9th, 2011, 08:14 PM
Marty, I will do my best to find out what it is that is bothering Roxy and then find a high quality food that is compatible. By "adding things in" I mean adding things one at a time to figure out what she's reacting to so I can find a better quality food that she will do well on. Of course this is all assuming that Iams is "fixing" the problem...could be coincidence!

It is unfortunate that I have 90 lbs of Acana Wild Prairie! I buy it bulk for a good price. It is going to take Peewee a REALLY long time to go through all that!

Myka
December 11th, 2011, 03:22 PM
Today I don't even see a trace of the rash, and the hair around her mouth and eyes is starting to come back. Weird! Whoda thunk Iams would ever solve any problems! Maybe the commercials have some value! (joking!)

Marty11
December 11th, 2011, 08:26 PM
you are tempting me to try that!!!!! Marty has a sore mouth right now, have no clue how it got there.

Myka
December 12th, 2011, 08:58 AM
Ack! Don't do that! The only reason I tried the Iams is because Roxy was on Iams when I adopted her and she didn't have the rash at that time. I hope you find a solution for your pup's sore mouth!

Marty11
December 12th, 2011, 10:04 AM
I won't jump into it for sure!!! But I've tried everything, right now its steroids........not happy bout that.

Myka
December 26th, 2011, 12:00 AM
Hmmm...well heck, I don't know what's going on. :shrug:

Roxy's feet are worse than they have been before...swollen, slightly red, some broken skin. Definitely not even close to the worse case I've seen, but something is still bothering her. Her skin rash is mostly gone...seems to have a flare up for a couple days once a week or so. By flare up I mean she will get covered in the all over red bumps (like in the first photos of in this thread), but they go away in a couple days. She usually has one small patch (less than dime-sized) on her side/chest/haunches that looks kind of like eczema - scaly, raised, rough skin. Sometimes it is red, most times it is normal colored. These patches will lose the hair off them as the scaliness flakes off.

From what I understand allergies showing up as foot irritation are always (almost always?) food related. I know holistic veterinarians suggest large daily doses of fish oil (omega 3) to help with allergies as it is an immunity booster and anti-inflammatory, but this is one ingredient I am questioning if she has allergies to. However, she hasn't had a drop of fish or fish oil in 4 weeks now. How long does it take for allergies to clear the system? Is it too early to start adding in fish oil? Fish oil should help the allergy, but not if the allergy is fish.

I need a new bag of dog food soon. She's been on the Iams Small Toy Breed for 4 weeks. I am considering a switch to California Naturals Lamb & Rice. Cali Naturals has limited ingredients and thus often helpful for dogs with allergies, and a different protein might be a good step to take.

Roxy's pre-adoption diet consisted of the Iams as well as a homemade food of about 75% white rice, 20% ground beef, and 5% carrots. This is just what I could tell from looking at it. I am not sure what ratio of homemade to Iams she was getting. We have been unsuccessful trying to contact Roxy's old owners.

Is it too early to make a call on whether she is ok with the Iams or not? It doesn't seem to be the answer - at least not fully - but am I being too quick? Regardless, at this point she is 75% better now than she was on the Orijen. So...environment related (weather has been bouncing from spring/winter/fall and may be related...I haven't documented weather compared to flare ups...or laundry detergent, or?)? Or food related?

Please help me make some decisions on the next step...or whether I should wait a bit longer before making anymore changes.

Marty11
December 26th, 2011, 09:32 AM
I gave up on the diet. Marty eats Acana Lamb and Apple right now with added high quality canned meat. I am convinced it's not food at all. I am thinking enviromental or auto immune stuff. She has the same breakouts on her skin that you described. Marty's crusty mouth has healed up for now. I got a spray from the vet "Dermacool" that works well on the breakouts. It's a cooling anti-itch. Sad to admit but she's a pet store dog and I am very upset about the amount of unhealthy dogs that come from there. :(

MaxaLisa
December 26th, 2011, 03:51 PM
...... She's been on the Iams Small Toy Breed for 4 weeks. I am considering a switch to California Naturals Lamb & Rice. Cali Naturals has limited ingredients and thus often helpful for dogs with allergies, and a different protein might be a good step to take......

Is it too early to make a call on whether she is ok with the Iams or not? It doesn't seem to be the answer - at least not fully - but am I being too quick? Regardless, at this point she is 75% better now than she was on the Orijen. .....

I've only read a bit of the history, but from a quick glance, these are my thoughts....

The switch to Iams helped, so there is something in the Orijen which was not good for her.

The Iams may have helped, but there are still ongoing issues, which tells me that there are issues with the Iams. Not surprising, consdering all the other stuff that is in the Iams that is usually not the best, and maybe some stuff particularly in this situation that is not good.

Allergy dogs often need extra nutrition i some areas too.

The paws swollen, concerns me a bit, since most often with regular allergies you see itchy paws with sores from licking and such, but not so much swollen or hot. Makes me think of vasculitis, or gout, or some other medical issue or specific nutritional need that might be going on. And when I think of vasculitis, I think of systemic type of infection. Any chance of a tick disease? There are other infections too, that would require abx other than Ceph.

Myka
December 26th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Marty, thanks for your input, I'm not totally sure that it is diet related either.

Lisa, yeah Roxy's paws are swollen. She is licking them a bit, but I think it is more that she licks because they are bothering her. I don't think her licking is the cause. The raw parts are between her toes right in the crooks, not on the paws of her paws like you see with many lick sores. Her dew claws are swollen too. This seems to only be affecting her front paws...maybe very slightly in the rear paws.

I just did a quick Google search on paw lick sores, which led me to a photo of a dog with a yeast infection of his paws, so I did a search for "dog paw yeast infection". That is what Roxy's feet look like. Kinda what her gunky ears look like too. Maybe systemic yeast infection? This here describes all of Roxy's symptoms to date: http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/blog/systemic-yeast-infections-in-dogs/

Lisa, the changes supposedly due to the food could be from the weather changes. She got better roughly as the weather got to freezing, and now is worse that we are mild again. I haven't been paying very close attention to this, but I think it is something to consider as well.

MaxaLisa
December 26th, 2011, 09:31 PM
For yeast on the paws, you can soak them in black tea to help.

But usually they don't swell.....

Myka
December 27th, 2011, 10:06 AM
I will look into a black tea treatment, although I think if this is her problem her ears are also affected and maybe her body skin too...?I have seen Tea Tree Oil mentioned in a lot of holistic treatments for yeast infections. I have that, I will try daily foot soaks and see what happens. I started adding Fish Oil to her food again today.

The paws in the pictures look swollen to me. Here are some pics from Google (Roxy's feet aren't near as bad as the photos, but definitely look very similar):
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Kb72OnsMLNc/TUdZ-rBds7I/AAAAAAAAAAU/EMxzOMhpF54/s320/dog+pay+allergy.jpg

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQ0mkvs-fKP67YPRg2GFE6Na8Oyg3ipRaRdOC_1gZ_BhxbmMLuxpCRjOTu

Myka
December 27th, 2011, 11:02 AM
Further reading suggests yeast infections are often triggered by allergic reaction, but sometimes seborrhea (which was considered early in this thread), fleas, genetic predisposition, bacterial infection. The Chlorhexadine shampoo that I was using on Roxy (from the vet) for the suspected Mange (but also used as a broad spectrum treatment) would have helped with a yeast infection. The antibiotics she was on could have helped yeast flourish. Hmmm... maybe I will start the Hexadene shampoo baths again, and do Tea Tree Oil foot soaks. Could add yogurt into the diet...

I do notice that the blemishes she does still get here and there respond to daily washing with Hibitane soap. Not sure what issues Hibitane would help to cure. Reading back through this thread from the beginning I also notice that when the skin scrapings were done the vet didn't see any excess yeast. I also notice that the swollen, red paws showed up about 10 days after the suspected Mange treatment began (Hexadene shampoo, Revolution drops, and Cephalexin antibiotics (to prevent infection of the blemishes). So this does make me suspect the antibiotic treatment as a trigger for possible yeast infection.

I am considering calling the vet today to ask for a Ketoconazole (Nizoral) prescription. See if she would agree to this without another appointment, and agrees that it would be a good thing to suspect.



Maybe the initial cause was allergies to the fish in the Orijen, which is why she improved when switched to Iams, but she had underlying yeast infection which is why she hasn't improved completely?

Maybe it was Mange to begin with which could have taken hold because of lowered immunity (maybe from vaccination in March?) which could be the same trigger for yeast. Or the antibiotic treatment triggered yeast.

Maybe it is seasonal allergies which are better now that it is frozen, but yeast took hold.

Sooo many possibilities...

Thoughts?

Marty11
December 27th, 2011, 02:16 PM
To be honest I think we both should be doing the allergy blood test for about 700 bucks........ One panel is for food and the other one if for the enviroment. How do you feel about that?

Myka
December 27th, 2011, 02:41 PM
From what I understand, the allergy blood testing isn't very accurate or useful. :dunno: I'm not at the point of spending $700 either. Roxy's condition isn't bad enough to prompt extreme measures. For now, I think experimental changes are sufficient for Roxy.

MaxaLisa
December 28th, 2011, 02:42 AM
To be honest I think we both should be doing the allergy blood test for about 700 bucks........ One panel is for food and the other one if for the enviroment. How do you feel about that?
If you can find a vet that will let you send in the blood yourself and pay cost, you can get it cheaper. That's how I did it. I used Varl and Spectrum, but I don't know about testing in Canada.

The blood tests will only give you a specific type of allergic reaction, and there can be other foods that they can be sensitive too. However, it gives you a starting point. They were invaluable for getting the diet right for my dogs.

Myka
January 1st, 2012, 11:53 PM
I think I should be able to solve the issues myself with experiments. :) Hoping so anyway!

I upped the amount of fish oil a couple days ago so now she's getting about 1500 mg per day. She has some blemishes like in the very first photo in this thread, where the hair is raised on the sides of her shoulders. These blemishes come and go one week to the next, and I don't think there is a change in the blemishes' severity since I added in the fish oil. I do think that the irritation around her mouth has probably increased in the last few days.

Roxy will be finishing up this bag of Iams Small & Toy Breed in about 10 days, so in a week I will start switching her over to California Naturals Lamb & Rice. CN does not have any fish in it, so I can remove the fish (oil) from her diet easily if needed. I am not too keen on feeding a food from Natura, but she's on Iams right now, so who am I to be picky at this point? :frustrated:

I do wonder if Chicken might be the issue. Before I adopted her she was eating that homemade food (mostly white rice with some hamburger and carrots) along with the Iams, so that would have significantly lowered the amount of chicken she was consuming. When I switched her to Orijen and Acana that would have very significantly increased the amount of chicken she was consuming.

Marty11
January 2nd, 2012, 10:14 AM
Myka what about the acana lamb and apple made with oats? Not sure about the fish though check it out!

Myka
January 2nd, 2012, 10:36 AM
Another thing Roxy is doing lately...eating her own poop! :yuck: She was obsessive with eating the charcoal chunks in the fire pit, then was eating her poop with the charcoal in it. Not sure if it was limited to charcoal turds or not, but maybe the fact that Iams isn't particularly digestible is making it still smell good to her. :frustrated:

Myka what about the acana lamb and apple made with oats? Not sure about the fish though check it out!

Marty you're awesome! There is no fish in the Acana Lamb & Apple! The lamb & apple food is designed for "diet-sensitive" dogs leaving out common allergens. :thumbs up

Thanks for repeating this to me several times now...sometimes things have to be beaten in! :laughing: I didn't consider it before because I thought all Acana and Orijen foods had loads of fish in them.

I'm going to switch her to the Acana Lamb & Apple.

Marty11
January 2nd, 2012, 11:05 AM
By the way "Marty" eats her poop too sometimes and also eats the charcoal from the outdoor fire pit !!!!!!!! :frustrated:

growler~GateKeeper
January 2nd, 2012, 11:08 PM
She was obsessive with eating the charcoal chunks in the fire pit, then was eating her poop with the charcoal in it. Not sure if it was limited to charcoal turds or not, but maybe the fact that Iams isn't particularly digestible is making it still smell good to her. :frustrated:

By the way "Marty" eats her poop too sometimes and also eats the charcoal from the outdoor fire pit !!!!!!!! :frustrated:

Just a thought here - activated charcoal (bit different from bbq charcoal but still...) eases stomach cramps & stops vomiting even severe cases. Dogs with confirmed or suspected poisoning when taken to the vet are usually given activated charcoal to absorb the toxins & remove it via poop.

Marty11
January 3rd, 2012, 07:12 AM
Are you saying they eat charcoal to soothe sick tummy?

Myka
January 3rd, 2012, 09:49 AM
Just a thought here - activated charcoal (bit different from bbq charcoal but still...) eases stomach cramps & stops vomiting even severe cases. Dogs with confirmed or suspected poisoning when taken to the vet are usually given activated charcoal to absorb the toxins & remove it via poop.

Yeah, they give it to people too for alcohol poisoning, and things. The charcoal Roxy eats is not BBQ charcoal, it is the leftover charred bits from the firewood. She has been obsessive about eating anytime she can find it. If we had a fire one night she would be in there all day th next day eating all the charcoal that was left.

Marty11
January 3rd, 2012, 10:11 AM
Same, i have to clean out the fire pit right away too.

growler~GateKeeper
January 3rd, 2012, 10:26 PM
Are you saying they eat charcoal to soothe sick tummy?

It's quite possible :shrug:. Same reason why dogs/cats eat grass - it soothes their tummy/digestive tract, makes them vomit hairballs etc.

Yeah, they give it to people too for alcohol poisoning, and things. The charcoal Roxy eats is not BBQ charcoal, it is the leftover charred bits from the firewood. She has been obsessive about eating anytime she can find it. If we had a fire one night she would be in there all day th next day eating all the charcoal that was left.

That basically is activated charcoal then, the firewood being burned brings it to a high enough temperature to oxidize it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_carbon
Activated carbon (aka activated charcoal) is carbon produced from carbonaceous source materials like nutshells, peat, wood, coir, lignite, coal and petroleum pitch. It can be produced by one of the following processes:

Carbonization: Material with carbon content is pyrolyzed at temperatures in the range 600–900 °C, in absence of oxygen (usually in inert atmosphere with gases like argon or nitrogen)
Activation/Oxidation: Raw material or carbonized material is exposed to oxidizing atmospheres (carbon dioxide, oxygen, or steam) at temperatures above 250 °C, usually in the temperature range of 600–1200 °C.

Of course some dogs just like to chew wood/sticks :rolleyes: so maybe they both just like the taste :laughing:

Myka
January 4th, 2012, 07:13 PM
That basically is activated charcoal then

Yes, I did wonder about the soothing affect when Roxy first starting eating the charcoal when we had a bonfire in early October. She was rather quite irritated with the skin condition at that time.

I took Roxy off the fish oil again. She seems to be very itchy and has raised bumps on parts of her body. Yesterday was the last day she got the fish oil. It could be a coincidence with who knows what at this point. This testing I'm doing isn't exactly science! If there is a future in which I find a solution for Roxy's skin irritations I will try the fish oil again. If it bothers her then I will find a different way to supplement Omega 3 to her diet.

I also started switching her over to the Acana Lamb & Apple, her first meal with it was lastnight (she's fed twice a day).

Marty11
January 4th, 2012, 09:25 PM
I tried salmon oil and didn't like the results myself.

Myka
January 4th, 2012, 09:32 PM
Wild Salmon Oil made a huge difference in Peewee and Myka's general health and coat. I think it is quite an important supplement, especially for allergies and health conditions. Omega 3 is a natural anti-inflammatory. I take it too. :)

MaxaLisa
January 4th, 2012, 11:21 PM
Just a thought here - activated charcoal (bit different from bbq charcoal but still...) eases stomach cramps & stops vomiting even severe cases.

:thumbs up

Myka
January 5th, 2012, 12:56 PM
I found this from 2007, so provided this information is still up to date I guess I know how long to test each new food. I only have Roxy on the Iams food for 5 weeks, so that was probably not enough. Too late now I guess, she's already into the new Acana food. I will be sure to keep her on the Acana for a minimum of 8 weeks before making a decision unless of course she gets considerably worse! I don't know why they call it Acana Lamb & Apple, should be Lamb & Oats imo. :laughing:

Oh, I have to remember to not give Roxy any of the chicken treats I have! I will have to buy some lamb treats with no fish in them...or just use kibble. Yeah, there's an idea! ;)

The protein complexes stay in the pet's system for 6-8 weeks. Therefore a minumum of 8 and usually of 12 weeks is needed on the food in order to assess response. It is important that during that time, nothing else if fed to the pet. Ask your vet as to which food they recommend if you are interested (there are both commercial and home cooked diets available).

Btw, here is the ingredient list for the Acana Lamb & Apple:

New Zealand lamb meal, steamed oats, peas, sunflower oil, de-boned New Zealand
lamb, red delicious apples, natural lamb flavor, flaxseed, alfalfa leaf, pumpkin, turnip
greens, cranberries, saskatoon berries, organic sea vegetables (kelp, bladderwrack,
dulse), burdock root, marshmallow root, juniper berries, fenugreek, sweet fennel,
angelica root, sea buckthorn, chicory root, stinging nettle, red raspberry leaf, milk
thistle, peppermint leaf, marigold flowers, chamomile flowers, Lactobacillus
acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.

Vitamins (vit. A, vit. D3, vit. E, niacin, riboflavin, lysine, thiamine mononitrate, vit. B12,
pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin). Minerals (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese
proteinate, cobalt proteinate, copper proteinate).

growler~GateKeeper
January 5th, 2012, 11:36 PM
I found this from 2007, so provided this information is still up to date I guess I know how long to test each new food. I only have Roxy on the Iams food for 5 weeks, so that was probably not enough. Too late now I guess, she's already into the new Acana food.

Since her feet got a bit worse this time being on it, IMO it was the right time to switch her to something completely different :thumbs up Usually if the pet gets worse or absolutely no improvement is shown during the trial period it's better to try something else than wait out the guidelines.

:goodvibes: & :fingerscr Acana Lamb & Apple clears up all Roxy's issues

Myka
January 6th, 2012, 10:38 PM
That's true I suppose! Thanks for the well wishes too, I really do hope it is the answer for Roxy's sake!

Roxy's still has quite a lot of bumps today (hives?). I figured she would be getting a bit better by now with the fish cut out for 3 days now. Time will tell.

Myka
January 10th, 2012, 10:31 AM
So Roxy has been off the Salmon oil for a week now (last day she had oil was Jan 3), and yesterday was the first day she was fully switched over to the Acana Lamb & Apple. Sadly, her skin condition looks terrible right now. Maybe she's still flushing the Salmon oil out of her system...? Dr Lee suggests it could take 6+ weeks to completely flush each protein source from the system, but I wonder how long it takes to see a marked improvement...?

Oh the battle continues!

Myka
January 10th, 2012, 10:41 PM
Yeah, Roxy is covered in the bumps (hives?) like in the very first post on page 1. I'm going to give it one more day, and I'm going to put her back on the Iams cold turkey (without mixing). What the heck could it possibly be? Maybe she's allerguc to quality? :laughing:

growler~GateKeeper
January 11th, 2012, 12:58 AM
What ingredients are the same in both the Acana & the Orijen flavours you were using that is not in the Iams?

There must be something (other than quality :laughing:) that she's reacting to........ maybe it's a grain/wheat or a vegetable/fruit or some other vitamin/mineral additive - they're not necessarily always reacting to a protein :shrug:

Nothing else has changed while you changed her food? ie new soap / new blanket / old soap but just washed her blanket etc

Myka
January 11th, 2012, 09:30 AM
Yeah, see that's the tough part! Trouble is she's not "cured" on Iams, just a lot better. If she was "cured" on Iams I would leave her on it and just supplement. The Acana Lamb & Apple is much different ingredient-wise than either the Orijen, Acana Wild Prairie, or Iams. Roxy seems to have the quickest, strongest reaction to the Acana Lamb & Apple. I know once allergens are in a dog's system they will flare up much quicker than the original onset though, so that could be the reason for the quick reaction. She is as bad now as she was when I took her to the vet when we suspected Mange. It took her three and half months to get that bad, and this time it took 10 days.

As far as environmental goes, the blankets are washed once every 1-2 weeks with the same soap. The dogs are both bathed every 2 weeks with a "frequent use" dog shampoo. Every second bath Roxy gets the vet shampoo called Hexadene. If Roxy's feet get really inflamed I will wash them with a mild Hibitane solution every second evening just before bed which seems to help quite a lot.

The rash started on about the 3rd day that I owned Roxy. I was given a small amount of Iams and a gallon bucket of the homemade food she was on. Since I wasn't given much Iams I started switching her to Orijen within 5 days or so, and she got fish oil . I am not 100% sure the rash started after I started introducing the Orijen or not. At first I thought the spots were bug bites, so I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to them.

I just fed her half Iams and half Acana Lamb & Apple. I will do the same tonight, then back to straight Iams tomorrow. :frustrated:

Myka
January 11th, 2012, 09:43 AM
Here are the ingredients lists for all the foods if you guys could please help me analyze.

Iams ProActive Health Adult Small & Toy Breed. Reaction: Mild
Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Chicken Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Flax Meal, Caramel, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Calcium Carbonate, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Rosemary Extract.

Acana Wild Prairie. Reaction: Medium-high
Chicken meal, russet potato, boneless chicken, boneless walleye, whitefish meal, peas, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E), sun-cured Alfalfa, chicken liver, boneless Lake Whitefish, whole eggs, salmon oil, sweet potato, pumpkin, spinach, turnip greens, tomatoes, carrots, apples, organic kelp, cranberries, blueberries, juniper berries, black currants, chicory root, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, lavender flowers, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, zinc proteinate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, iron proteinate, vitamin B6, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, selenium, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

Orijen Adult. Reaction: Medium-high
Fresh boneless chicken*, chicken meal, fresh boneless salmon*, turkey meal, herring meal, russet potato, peas, sweet potato, fresh boneless turkey*, fresh whole eggs*, fresh chicken liver*, fresh boneless lake whitefish*, fresh boneless walleye*, sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), organic kelp, pumpkin, chicory root, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.

Acana Lamb & Apple (hypo-allergenic). Reaction: High
New Zealand lamb meal, steamed oats, peas, sunflower oil, de-boned New Zealand lamb, red delicious apples, natural lamb flavor, flaxseed, alfalfa leaf, pumpkin, turnip greens, cranberries, saskatoon berries, organic sea vegetables (kelp, bladderwrack, dulse), burdock root, marshmallow root, juniper berries, fenugreek, sweet fennel, angelica root, sea buckthorn, chicory root, stinging nettle, red raspberry leaf, milk thistle, peppermint leaf, marigold flowers, chamomile flowers, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.

Vitamins (vit. A, vit. D3, vit. E, niacin, riboflavin, lysine, thiamine mononitrate, vit. B12, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin). Minerals (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, copper proteinate).

Myka
January 11th, 2012, 09:44 AM
I am 95% sure she's reacting to the Wild Salmon oil when I have added that to her food, even when I added it to Iams. I am pretty sure there is something else though. Since she has a reaction to fish, she could have been reacting to the high levels of fish in the Orijen and the Acana Wild Prairie. It is possible she wasn't reacting to anything else in those two foods.

Or...it could be something besides food! :frustrated:

Right now, Roxy's feet are worse than they have ever been. Before it was always just her front feet, but now the back feet are just as bad. Very red between the toes, crusty in some places at the edges of the redness, and she is uncomfortable when I spread her toes to look. The tops of her feet look fine. Her ears look really good right now. The fur around her mouth and eyes is still halfway bald. She is still wanting to eat her own poop (just older turds, not fresh ones).

growler~GateKeeper
January 13th, 2012, 03:08 AM
Were any skin scrapings tested for excessive yeast?

The Orijen & Acana Wild Prairie both have fish/fish product in them but the Lamb & Apple doesn't - fish still sounds like it maybe one cause though

Couple of things to check to start & none of them jump out and look like a potential allergen.......

Each of the last 3 have apples the iams doesn't - any reaction if given raw/cooked apple?

Each of the last 3 have kelp the iams doesn't - any reaction if given powered kelp?

Same with pumpkin - any reaction to pure pumpkin (not the pie filling)?

Same with peas - any reaction if given either raw or cooked peas?

Same with alfalfa - any reaction if given alfalfa?

Same with turnip greens - any reaction if given turnip/turnip greens?

Same with cranberry, juniper berry, blueberry, black currant, raspberry, saskatoon berry - any reaction to anything in the berry family?


Since we're not sure it's not environmental.......

Each of the last 3 have flower/herb that normally wouldn't cause a reaction but if it's actually environmental they might.......

Any reaction when exposed to marigold flowers/plants, chamomile flowers/plant, dandelion flowers/plant,

Marty11
January 13th, 2012, 07:55 AM
Why don't you try the test I did on Marty. It's a blood test about 75 bucks to test for histamines.....which means if its positive there is an allergy happening.....if it's negative then it's something else. Now Marty tested negative both times and make sure there is no steroid creams, sprays or pills prior to the test. It's a good idea to do it while she is reacting so bad right now.

Myka
January 13th, 2012, 09:33 AM
Thanks for all the input Growler! Roxy had skin scrapings done on October 22nd the vet didn't find any parasites, nor any fungi, abnormal bacteria, or yeast. I was looking at peas and kelp too mainly. I have to get her back onto the Iams and not so flared up before I start testing again. This is such a slow process. It will probably be 3-4 weeks on the Iams before I will test an ingredient.

Marty, I had no idea such a test existed. That is brilliant. I will call my vet to ask about it, thanks!

Here are some pics of her toes at the worst...I have been cleaning them with a mild Hibitane solution in the evenings so they are much better now. Notice in the first one the creamy stuff in between her toes. It looks like degradation of the skin (infection starting?). This is mostly gone now I have been cleaning. Pics are from the 11th just before I cleaned them the first time.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Jan1120123.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Jan1120122.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Jan112012.jpg

Myka
January 14th, 2012, 03:43 PM
So I talked to my Vet and there is no blood test available "here" that tests for histamines. I tried the University Vet, but they are only open for emergencies on the weekend. My Vet mentioned the allergy testing blood test for ~$800, but it can't be done locally. There is a place 6 hours away that does it. She didn't mention if we could send blood there or whether the dog actually has to be there. I didn't ask much about it, not interested right now.

My Vet really wants me to try one of the Prescription diets (gee I saw that one coming). When questioned about meat content, she (receptionist) said that dogs are omnivores and really can live perfectly healthy lives as vegetarians if need be. She also said that Hill's and MediCal measure all their meats in dry form so the meat content is more accurate. I'm thinkin Chicken Meal is Chicken Meal, no? And Chicken is Chicken? Pretty sure I can tell by reading the label which meats are weighed dry and which are weighed wet. Either way, OMG there is like no freaking meat in those diets. Number one ingredient on the z/d (hydrolyzed protein anti-allergen diet) is STARCH! Wtf?

Yeah, so...back to the Iams which surprisingly looks like way better food than the Hill's!

MaxaLisa
January 14th, 2012, 04:01 PM
You can have the blood drawn and sent to someplace like Spectrum Labs or varl for a blood allergy tests. Some vets don't like them, but they were incredibly helpful for both my dogs.

I don't think you're going to figure this out unless you go on a homeprepared trial. It could very well be the chicken, even though seems better on the Iams. Until you have control over the ingredients, it's all a shot in the dark.

Marty11
January 14th, 2012, 04:21 PM
I did home cooking for about three months, it was ground beef, quinoa, spinach, sweet potatoes, green peas. That's all she had. No change unfortunately, but it's worth a try.

Myka
January 14th, 2012, 09:32 PM
I'm going to put Roxy back on Iams for 6 weeks or so, then I will try her on California Naturals. Not sure whether to try the Lamb or the Chicken. If that doesn't work I will consider doing a home-cooked recipe. Due to Roxy's size, I'm not too keen on preparing such large volumes of homemade food.

Marty, where did you get the histamine blood test for $75? This is obviously different than the $800 allergy testing. It would be nice to know for sure that it is an allergy. If this is something else like auto-immune or yeast it would be best to not waste time messing around with food! :laughing: I'm not ready to spend $800 on the full allergy testing.

Marty11
January 15th, 2012, 01:16 AM
Allergy testing is different. I got a test done to see if there were histamines present.

Myka
January 15th, 2012, 09:10 AM
Allergy testing is different. I got a test done to see if there were histamines present.

Yes I understand. Where did you get this done? Was it in-house at your local vet or did they send it somewhere? I'm wondering if there is somewhere I can send it myself (preferrably in Canada).

Marty11
January 15th, 2012, 11:45 AM
I'll check with my vet to see what it's called, it was sent to a local lab in Ontario.

Myka
January 16th, 2012, 12:13 AM
Ok, thanks so much Marty!

Marty11
January 16th, 2012, 10:22 AM
"Canine Allergy Screen"

Myka
January 16th, 2012, 10:25 AM
Ok thank you, I will hunt around and see if I can find a lab nearby.

Myka
January 26th, 2012, 07:50 PM
I haven't had any luck finding anyone that knows about this "Canine Allergy Screen" testing simply for histamines.

DH fed Roxy a Pizzle about 5 days ago and holy mackerel did she ever have a bad reaction to that! At least that seems to be the offender. I'm thinking again about taking Roxy back to the vet mainly to look at her feet and figure out what the issue there is (yeast?). Otherwise, on the phone the vet really wants me to try out the prescription food...of course. I would be more likely to try something like 30% chicken, 30% oatmeal, 30% frozen mixed veggies (no corn) or something to that effect. it would be rather costly to feed a 75 lb dog this type of diet though...ugh. Beef would be much cheaper, but given the reaction to the Pizzle...

I ordered a tub of Platinum Performance to see if it might help. I might try a couple of their other products at some point. I've heard a lot of good things about these products.

Myka
January 29th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Well Roxy isn't any better. Her feet are real bad, her skin is awful, and she is very, very itchy again. I'm now starting to wonder if the food doesn't matter, if it is something else she is reacting to (or infected with or?). Maybe the Cephalexin treatment in October & November knocked it back and it is just building up again now. I'm going to schedule her for the vet again. They want to do a skin biopsy.

On the yeast infection front...is there some home test I can do to test for a yeast infection? Would soaking her feet in yogurt do any good? Maybe even just be soothing?

MaxaLisa
January 30th, 2012, 12:53 AM
For yeast on the feet, soaking in black tea sometimes helps (though it can stain!). Also dipping in a weak mix of vinegar and water can help, but sometimes stings a bit.

Myka
January 30th, 2012, 07:58 AM
Thanks Lisa, I remember you saying that although I couldn't find any reference to black tea online. Do you know why it would work? I did find lots of talk about apple cider vinegar and yogurt on their skin, and the occasional suggestion of tea tree oil. One of the holistic vets on Martha Stewart's channel on Sirius Radio often suggests using vinegar or apple cider vinegar...can't really remember as I haven't been able to listen for quite some time. I think it was for any type of skin issue to help soothe. I should send him an email.

I'm not sure if it is yeast or not...just another idea. So many rashes and symptoms look so similar!

Myka
January 31st, 2012, 08:57 AM
So I was listening to Dr Marty Goldstein on the Martha Stewart channel on Sirius lastnight. He is a DVM that combines conventional and holistic medicine. He had a guest on, and at one point they were talking about yeast infections of the ears and feet. Dr Marty's biggest recommendation was to try apple cider vinegar mixed 1-2 parts per 4 parts water in a spray bottle (or dropper for ears). I missed how many times per day he recommended to use it.

So I mixed up the apple cider vinegar and water and sprayed Roxy's feet for the first time lastnight. I'm going to try applying twice per day. Hopefully I can see some improvement soon, or at least if I don't see any improvement it would be a good sign that yeast is not the problem.

Myka
January 31st, 2012, 08:10 PM
Interestingly Roxy's paws look really good right now after just two sprays (one lastnight, one this morning). Roxy's belly looked much better this morning after lastnight's spraying, but I forgot to spray it this morning and it seems to be flared up again. Hmmm...

If this continues to show improvement then I will start rinsing Roxy's whole body in this solution every evening as Dr Marty suggests.

Myka
February 1st, 2012, 09:11 PM
Here are some pics...

Jan 30th (before using apple cider vinegar):
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Jan302012.jpg


Jan 31st (24 hours after the first apple cider vinegar treatment...results are best after 12 hours, so I think it needs to be applied twice per day)
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Jan3120122.jpg


Here are her toes from Jan 30th (before the ACV, I haven't taken more photos, but they are waaaay better):
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Jan3020122.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Jan3020123.jpg


Here's her chest on Jan 31 after one ACV treament:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Jan312012.jpg

MaxaLisa
February 1st, 2012, 09:13 PM
I hope that it continues to improve!

The black tea - it's supposed to be the tannins, I think. It was on Dr. Oz :)

Myka
February 1st, 2012, 09:23 PM
Dr Oz? Really? Hmmm...weird. I just decided to use the ACV because I hear the holistic vets Dr Shawn Messonier and Dr Marty Goldstein talk about it for yeast quite often.

Anyone know if the rash looks yeasty? :laughing:

Marty11
February 2nd, 2012, 06:37 AM
That is exactly like Marty gets around her armpit area during a breakout. Her feet are good mind you. Her lips get crusty. I hope you have luck with this solution! Poor pooch.

Myka
February 2nd, 2012, 08:04 AM
Thanks for the luck Marty! Although it doesn't give much hope if your Marty gets the same type of rash. Have you tried apple cider vinegar on the rash? Look at my results this morning:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Feb220122.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Feb22012.jpg

Myka
February 5th, 2012, 04:11 PM
Well the rash is a little better than the last pics. Her feet are definitely better. Not a resolve yet. I started adding plain yogurt to Roxy's breakfast on Feb 2nd. I want to try adding fish oil again soon. Now that the rash is under control for the most part it seems like a good time to experiment with food again.

Myka
February 5th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Any suggestions on a food to try? Looking for something good or high quality other than Orijen/Acana. Limited ingredients or hypoallergenic maybe be a good idea...who knows at this point. I'm going to look at the cost of Carnivora (formerly Urban Carnivore).

Winston
February 5th, 2012, 05:30 PM
Blue Buffalo?

Myka
February 5th, 2012, 05:56 PM
Blue Buffalo?

Good call, thanks! :) Easy to find, reasonably priced, and look to have quality ingredients. Their Blue Wilderness line is grain-free, and they also have a Basics line that has limited ingredients so there are lots of options within the brand. I don't like the canola oil or tomato pomace in their foods, but at this point I'm getting less picky! I notice no fish in the varieties I checked out, so that's good for Roxy too (assuming she really is having issues with fish...who knows). I think I'm going to try the Basics Adult Turkey.

Marty11
February 5th, 2012, 06:03 PM
Try Carna4. It's spouted grains and organic chicken, apparantly if this doesn't work.......no food will. Don't be afraid of the chicken either. It's twice as expensive as Orijen!!!! I was thinking of trying it myself, it's worth it. No treats what so ever, try it for 8 weeks min.

Myka
February 5th, 2012, 07:13 PM
Twice the price of Orijen? Are you nuts? My dog is 75 lbs! I need something cheaper than Orijen! :laughing: Thankfully (haha), there are no dealers of Carna4 in my city, but strangely a much smaller city 2 1/2 hours away there is one dealer. Go figure.

Roxy just gets dog food for treats. Peewee gets the Blue Bits...he loves them. So does Roxy, but she can't have them until we get this sorted out.

Marty11
February 6th, 2012, 06:58 AM
I may give it a try? I am curious and I have a 25 lb dog to feed plus I need to get her off steroids. I have a large bag of Acana to go through first. If I do I'll keep you posted.

Myka
February 6th, 2012, 07:40 AM
Have you tried spraying Marty with diluted apple cider vinegar? Even if it may not be a cure (although it does look like a cure), it is providing a lot of relief for Roxy. for less than $5 for the vinegar and the spray bottle it's worth a shot! :laughing:

I'm just waiting for my discount to be applied to my Fedex account and then I'm going to order a tub of Platinum Performance for Roxy. The yogurt seems to be ok with her. These two things should really help her if yeast is the culprit. Now I think of it I probably shouldn't change her kibble right now while I'm adding the yogurt and the PP. Stupid Iams... *sigh*

Myka
February 10th, 2012, 07:59 AM
Well, I still haven't been able to order the Platinum Performance...hopefully next week. So I decided to get Roxy back onto the Acana Wild Prairie again and see what the effects are. She got her first (partial) meal of it on Tuesday evening. She doesn't get digestive upsets easily, so I can switch her over fairly quickly, but I started slow to see if there would be a reaction. I'm about 2/3 Acana right now. So far there is no increase in Roxy's skin irritation. I forgot to mention that I started adding plain yogurt to each meal (she's fed twice a day) about 10 days ago too. I'm very happy to report that her skin is in better condition than it has been in 6 months! :party:

I'm going to give the dogs a bath this weekend and wash their bedding. Hopefully now that Roxy's skin is better she won't stink so bad anymore. She has been smelling like an outdoor dog that hasn't been bathed in a year, even just a few days after getting a bath. :yuck:

I finally discovered a vet in the city that practices holistic medicine in addition to traditional medicine. So I will take Roxy there for her next check up and blood panel. :thumbs up

Marty11
February 10th, 2012, 08:06 AM
When you wash the bedding, use Tide Free, no fabric softener. U probably already know this but just incase. :thumbs up

Myka
February 10th, 2012, 12:18 PM
That's what I used to do. Now I'm just using washing soda and Borax. I would add some glycerin, but I can't find any. On the last wash I added a few drops of Tea Tree Oil to the rinse water. Thanks for the tip though! :)

MaxaLisa
February 11th, 2012, 03:10 PM
These take an awful long time to clear, if they don't treat with Ceph long enough, or if it is slightky resistent to Ceph. You might also look into things like Oil of Oregano (internal), coconut oil, etc.

Myka
February 11th, 2012, 05:26 PM
Lisa, are you referring to yeast infections? I don't intend to try to treat it with Cephalexin. Roxy was given Cephalexin last October to prevent a secondary infection when the rash was real bad. Yeast infection didn't come up in our chats at that time...I'm not sure if the vet thought about it or not. I do know that she didn't see any yeast (or abnormal amounts?) in the skin scrapings she did. She didn't find anything unusual in the skin scrapings and she took about 6 samples from all over her. At that time Roxy's feet were not affected.

Right now Roxy is about 95%. Her hind feet are slightly reddened some days. That's one thing that is unusual (I think)...her feet change day to day. Some days they are really red, really tender, and the skin is degrading. Other days they aren't even pink. Her feet haven't been as bad as the skin degrading in at least a week now though, so that's a good sign.

cassingermany
February 16th, 2012, 03:19 AM
My dog Anna woke up one morning COVERED in hives. She was puking as well. I had used a washing liquid for a while for our clothes and she was ok, but the moment I washed her bed with it, she broke out bad. It took her a while to get better and we did use benadryl to help ease her itchiness, per vet recommendation, and he gave her some shots but she did get over it. I never used the same liquid, went back to our old stuff and it's never happened again.

I can't help but wonder if maybe it's not the brand of washing liquid you are using but maybe just the same ingredient in everything you are using. Have you tried not using anything at all but just plain hot water? If not, try washing all of her things several times in hot water to get rid of any residue left behind from any detergent. Vinegar is also a great, natural alternative to help getting rid of smells without using chemicals for her anal gland smell. Not ON her but on her things if they smell like anal glands. I hope she gets better and it seems like the stuff you are using is working!

I know you said you got her from a farm. I know that a lot of farms are devoid of grass with the machinery and animals trampling all over everything and they can be awfully muddy. Is it possible that she may be allergic to the grass or something IN the grass?

Myka
February 16th, 2012, 09:33 AM
Thanks for your reply Cass. We don't have any grass at this time of year...it is all snow! At first I was thinking it might be the grass since that was back in mid-summer when the issues started, but now it just can't be since we have had several months of no grass now. For their beds I was using Tide Free & Clear, then I switched to simply using washing soda and Borax (a cup of each in a large load). In the last couple loads I have added a few drops of Tea Tree Oil to the rinse water to help with smells since the washing soda and Borax wasn't doing the trick. These changes don't seem to have made any difference.

Roxy still scoots her butt now and then, but she isn't stinking of anal glands anymore either, so that's good news as well. We'll see what the diet change does for this...

So far, the change in food hasn't caused any further irritation. Roxy just has some mild irritation between her toes which has been persistent since before I made the food changes, so now I'm pretty sure the issue isn't the food either like I was suspecting a few months ago. She has now been fully changed over to Acana Wild Prairie (which I thought she had a reaction to last fall) for four days. I started the switch on Feb 7th. I'm still giving her about 3 tbsp of plain yogurt twice a day. I think all yogurt has live cultures in it, but I made sure to choose one that states live probiotic cultures right on the package.

Myka
February 19th, 2012, 04:08 PM
Well, Roxy may have a bit more irritation between her toes the yesterday and today. This may be because I am only spraying them once a day now. I will go back to twice daily sprays. I do wonder...if ACV is helping does that mean that yeast definitely is the problem? Or would ACV help any rash?

The Platinum Performance should be here Tuesday. I bought a 3 month supply to try out.



Marty, have you tried the ACV solution on Marty yet??

DarKevs
February 21st, 2012, 01:18 PM
seems so many of our Pitties have 'skin' issues.

when i first got my girl she had a lot of problems..itchy.hot spots.loose stools, etc.

i put her on the same food my dobes get.purina pro plan salmon and rice and she has had no skin or digestive problems since.

ACV is a very good supplement to feed your pets too. you must start out with just a few drops added to their water or food and slowly build it up to a tsp. or two a day, depending on the size of your pet.

To help soothe irritated skin........an oatmeal bath works wonders.

Hugz to Roxy!

Myka
February 22nd, 2012, 09:55 PM
Well I finally got the Platinum Performance for Roxy. She got a half dose yesterday evening, and a full dose this morning. It sure smells good.

Roxy's feet are definitely more irritated between the toes in the last few days even though the rest of her skin is looking pretty good. The ACV solution is helping to keep the irritation in check though, so I will keep on with the Acana Wild Prairie (I'm still not convinced it's the food). She got bathed on Monday and is already starting to smell again like rank dirty dog. She's an indoor dog so there is no reason for her to stink, I think it has something to do with the skin issues.

Thank for your input DarKevs! I am almost out of doggie shampoo, and I will buy an oatmeal shampoo for sure. When I spray Roxy's feet with the ACV solution she does end up licking some of it off her feet and licks whatever she can get off the blanket after I spray. She really likes the taste of it.

Myka
March 18th, 2012, 02:55 PM
Well, Roxy has been on the Acana Wild Prairie for 5 weeks now. You know how people get allergy shots? I'm thinking maybe Roxy could kind of get used to the food and maybe the allergy/sensitivities might subside. I'm able to keep the rash at bay with once daily sprays on her paws. She doesn't have the rash anywhere on her body anymore, just some irritation between her toes. Roxy has been on the Platinum Performance now for 3 1/2 weeks and I don't notice any difference one way or the other with this supplement besides her coat is really, really soft now (might be because of the Acana though). She still stinks though, and still having anal gland issues/smells.

I don't know...I'm at a loss. This has been an 8 month struggle now.

Myka
May 10th, 2012, 11:51 PM
UPDATE: Roxy has been on the Acana Wild Prairie for 3 full months now. I was hoping she would tolerate the diet over time, but nothing is improving. She continues to have anal gland troubles. She scoots a few times a day, and often smells like gland "juice". :barf: Roxy also still has irritation between her toes and has some hair loss on her feet and belly. Her rash/irritation sometimes spreads under her armpits and near her vulva which I will spray with apple cider vinegar (diluted 50/50 with water) once which will make the rash retreat. The spray doesn't remedy the irritation between her toes.

At Easter I bought 3 turkeys on sale for $0.99/lb. I took them to the butcher and had them ground bone-in (minus the drumsticks which were too big to put through the grinder) for another $0.99\lb. So I have 40 lbs of ground turkey for about $80. I measured this out to 6 ounce portions and froze them. I bought a bag of green lentils for $0.59\lb, and a bag of frozen peas & carrots for $1.25/lb.

Last Tuesday (today is 10th day since) Roxy got her first meal with some green lentils and peas & carrots. Over the week I worked up to about 50/50 mix kibble and new stuff by volume. Lastnight Roxy got her first meal of raw, ground turkey lastnight...about 1 ounce. The plan is to get to 50% turkey, 40% lentils, 10% peas & carrots. Since Roxy doesn't seem to tolerate fish (still questioning this), she is also getting flax-based Platinum Performance Canine.


For those unfamiliar, here is some information about Platinum Performance Canine...

Components:
Omega-3 and -6 Fatty Acids
Glucosamine
Trace Minerals
Antioxidants
Amino Acids
Mucilage
Vitamins


Ingredients: Flax Seed, Flax Oil, Rice Bran, Lactose-Free Whey Protein Concentrate, Sunflower Seed, Non-GMO Soy Flour, Cane Molasses, Performance Minerals™, Bio-Sponge®, Vitamin E (dl-Alpha-Tocopherol Acetate), Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid), Glucosamine Sulfate, Natural Vitamin E (d-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate), Chromium Yeast, Selenium Yeast, Pine Bark Extract, Uncaria Tomentosa, Aloe Vera, Algal Omega-3 Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA), Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, L-Carnitine Tartrate, Vitamin A Palmitate, Choline Bitartrate, Niancinaminde (B3), Vitamin K1, Calcium Pantothenate (B5), Riboflavin (B2), Cyanocobalamin (B12), Thiamine Mononitrate (B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6), Vitamin D3, Folic Acid, Biotin.

There is also product analysis: http://www.platinumperformance.com/Platinum-Performance0153-Canine/productinfo/CPLAG1/

MaxaLisa
May 11th, 2012, 01:15 AM
That performance product has both soy and yeast in it, which might be a trigger? Weird that it has both synthetic and natural E in it.

I've always been a big fan of flax, though I know some dogs are allergic. Thankfully, none of mine have been.

Marty11
May 11th, 2012, 07:05 AM
Hello there, there is a post here somewhere about "Saliva Testing" I was going to look into it. Did u see it?

Myka
May 11th, 2012, 10:20 AM
MLisa, Roxy was on the Platinum Performance for 45 days with no increase of irritation. I was skeptical because of the ingredients you mention, and also the "Bio Sponge" is a beef product. I called them and they sent me the 45 day supply for a free trial. I have been out of the PP now for 3 weeks (with no noticed decrease in irritation), and should be getting a new bucket next week. The product definitely helped Roxy's coat which is very dry and flaky (although still shiny) when not on the product. I want a multi-vitamin, multi-mineral product for her, and also omega supplement (with no fish), so I figured I would give this stuff a try.

Hi Marty, I haven't seen the post you're referring to.

Marty11
May 11th, 2012, 03:06 PM
I couldn't find the post either, but it's by Jean Dobbs and my dog had a check up today and I gave the info to my vet and she is contacting Guelph and looking into it.

MaxaLisa
May 11th, 2012, 06:11 PM
I couldn't find the post either, but it's by Jean Dobbs and my dog had a check up today and I gave the info to my vet and she is contacting Guelph and looking into it.

This sounds like her new food sensitivity test. I did the serum test through Spectrum Labs instead, since most of the foods on the Dodds test I don't feed anyway, and it's not very extensive.

MaxaLisa
May 11th, 2012, 06:11 PM
MLisa, Roxy was on the Platinum Performance for 45 days with no increase of irritation. I was skeptical because of the ingredients you mention, and also the "Bio Sponge" is a beef product. I called them and they sent me the 45 day supply for a free trial. I have been out of the PP now for 3 weeks (with no noticed decrease in irritation), and should be getting a new bucket next week. The product definitely helped Roxy's coat which is very dry and flaky (although still shiny) when not on the product. I want a multi-vitamin, multi-mineral product for her, and also omega supplement (with no fish), so I figured I would give this stuff a try.

Sounds like it isn't causing trouble then, that's good. It looks like a good product, but it's always so hard to know.

Myka
May 14th, 2012, 06:41 AM
Ugh, I don't think turkey is the answer. Roxy was doing fine with the lentils and peas & carrots, but now she's getting ground turkey she's getting quite a rash going. Argh...that doesn't leave any reasonably priced meats on the menu.

Myka
May 16th, 2012, 08:21 PM
Hmmm...maybe she ate something in the yard a few days ago because she seems to be improving now. She may have eaten a 2" fish that jumped out of the saltwater fish tank (on Sunday?). When on the kibble she had quite a rash between her vulva and her belly, on the underside of her tail, as well as a swollen and pink anus, and redness between her toes before switching her onto the homemade recipe. Her tail is better now, just scaly (healing?) skin. Her anus looks normal now, her toes are similar to her tail. The rash near her vulva is still persisting though. I am spraying it with apple cider vinegar solution when I remember (every 2nd day?). Roxy isn't getting sprayed with apple cider vinegar regularly for the last month at least. Tomorrow will be her first meal of no kibble. Fingers crossed we are onto something...

Myka
May 26th, 2012, 04:37 PM
Bah, rash continues...! Next step is to remove the peas and carrots so she will only be getting turkey and lentils (and the Platinum Performance).

growler~GateKeeper
May 27th, 2012, 12:00 AM
I'd take one out at a time & wait a bit to see if there is change per ingredient :2cents: :goodvibes:

MaxaLisa
May 27th, 2012, 12:14 AM
You're kinda doing things backwards. Taking things out one at a time, rather than starting with one or two ingredients and adding in.

When the body is in an allergy state, it is prone to develop more allergies, so you don't want to be feeding an allergen with things that aren't if you can help it.

I haven't been following closely, but likely this needs a combination of things - taking out offending foods, adding supportive nutrients, and fighting the rash with whatever it needs (abx, acv, shampoos, etc.).

Myka
May 27th, 2012, 12:44 AM
Lisa, the supporting nutrients is the Platinum Performance, and I do spray the rash with ACV solution when it flares. The ACV makes a big difference. I am attempting to take out the offending foods, but I don't know what they are. There is no improvement going from Acana Wild Prairie to homemade turkey, lentils, peas, carrots. I've given Roxy carrots before and she didn't seem to have any reaction, so I thought that was safe. Starting tomorrow Roxy will only get turkey and lentils.

Thanks Growler, that's the plan! :) If there is still a reaction to the turkey and lentils I will swap out the turkey. Sensitivity to lentils seems more unlikely than turkey. Honestly, I think it is the turkey although Roxy has had reactions to kibbles based on lamb, fish, and chicken. So is it the protein source or something else? In the past fish seemed like an "obvious" issue when I added Fish Oil to her food. I've changed kibbles to ingredients that were completely different from eachother, and gained nothing. It's quite possible there are many ingredients she has an issue with. The home I adopted her from (through a rescue) fed her Iams, and she seemed to be fine then. I've switched her back to Iams with definite improvement, but not 100%. Leads me to think that it is the chicken (and possibly turkey too since they are close) since Iams likely has little chicken, but still has some. Makes sense to me...???

growler~GateKeeper
May 27th, 2012, 12:58 AM
I realize she's a big dog so it needs to be cost effective as well, but I wonder if scrapping all of it and going with something there's no way she's ever had before like Ostrich meat, just meat & ground bone nothing else, might be the way to go. :shrug:

growler~GateKeeper
May 27th, 2012, 01:18 AM
Just did a quick scan of this thread again & I didn't see mention of trying her on beef based food just chicken/fish, has she had issues w beef before?

Myka
May 27th, 2012, 07:57 AM
Growler, I understand the reasoning behind trying something obscure, but in the long run that doesn't help me because there is no way I'm spending $300/month on food long-term, so I need to find something that she can eat long-term. Ideally, with allergens recognized I can get her back onto a kibble.

I haven't tried beef yet simply because I've never had a dog that could tolerate the richness of beef (stinky gas), but I think it will be the next meat I try. How can I get enough bone into her though if I'm feeding beef? Can I buy "ground beef bone" somewhere that I could sprinkle on top or something?

EDIT: I see Missing Link carries a ground beef bone.

MaxaLisa
May 27th, 2012, 01:41 PM
I know that you are in Canada and things are higher, but I was feeding my 85 lb GSD beef exclusivley (with rotating veggies), for about $200 per month. I found a grocery store that had frequent sales and an additional discount for buying so many packages at once. I think going non-chicken is important, even non-poultry, including no chicken or poultry fat, etc.

For calcium I did use a mix of Calacium Carbonate (Now powder), and the supplement Nutramin).

I know there are beef based kibbles out there, but I would go with the single protein home-prepared first to see if it's tolerated.

I have a young small dog here, BIG difference between feeding primal preground raw (beef) and the Stella & Chewy's version, very difficult to keep track of all those extra ingredients when you have an issue dog. (In our case, I believe the culprit was the sweet potatoes). BTW, corn in dog food can be GMO corn, which is an allergy promoter, so I would be careful with foods like Iams, particularly if you are feeding with something you eventually want to be safe.

Myka
May 27th, 2012, 02:16 PM
Sorry, but $200/month to feed the dog is absolutely unacceptable. I draw the line around $100/month which I still think is totally unreasonable, but I will do this until I get to the bottom of these allergies. I used to think I spent too much on Orijen kibble, but now Orijen looks cheap! :frustrated:

The only reason I fed the Iams briefly was to see if the allergies would go away since that is what she ate for years before coming to my home. You commented on that pages ago, and I explained then. :laughing: That's the first time I've bought a bag of Iams since the early 90s when I didn't know any better.

MaxaLisa
May 27th, 2012, 03:08 PM
You mentioned Iams yesterday, I guess it wasn't clear to me. Sorry.

The problem with this stuff, is that you can do a little bit here, and a little bit there, but sometimes, unless it's all done at once, you will never get it resolved.

Hope this next change brings clarity.

Myka
May 27th, 2012, 03:15 PM
Oh no worries...this darn thread has been going on for way too long! Ugh..

There is a small part of me that still doesn't believe it is the food. All this time, all these changes (albeit slow changes) and the reactions don't seem to correlate accurately. It just doesn't make sense. I'll try something, get a reaction, wait, try again, no reaction. And why would she be fine on Iams for years and then suddenly now she can't eat it? And this all happens at the same time she moves to a new home. Too many coincidences I think. I've tried to remove all environmental allergens. There has been no change from summer to fall to winter to now spring. I changed beds, and bed materials. I changed soaps to just plain washing soda and baking soda. I tried shampooing the carpet. I tried three different dog shampoos. None of these changes made any difference that I could definitely pinpoint. Really, the only thing I can really pinpoint as making a difference would be the topical apple cider vinegar applications which made a huge, huge difference. Bah...I don't know what to do...

Myka
May 27th, 2012, 09:16 PM
Another thing that makes me wonder if it is not the food is that Peewee has developed a rash in the last month. He has been licking his belly and his armpits raw. What the heck?

MaxaLisa
May 28th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Very likely a combination of things :(

Myka
June 17th, 2012, 01:07 PM
UPDATE: So, interestingly I mentioned these skin troubles with the dogs to some friends. One says that her friend in my city who is part of the agility club told her that a bunch of the dogs in the agility club were having all sorts of skin issues and after changing to bottled water for the dogs the symptoms in most of the dogs went away. How interesting.

So I changed Roxy and Peewee to bottled spring water and put Roxy back on the Acana Wild Prairie kibble for 10 days. It was then very obvious that the Acana Wild Prairie is a problem with Roxy.

So I switched to Canidae pureLAND kibble which is the grain-free Bison and Lamb recipe. This recipe has no chicken, no turkey, no fish, no grains. So this kibble is completely different than anything she has had so far. Sticking to the bottled spring water for now.

Peewee is still having issues with his skin on his belly and armpits where he licks and licks and licks. I'm not sure which came first - the licking or the rash. He goes through waves of raw skin, then dry peeled skin as it heals, then looks ok for awhile, then raw again. So I'm going to switch him back to Orijen Adult after he is done the bag of Acana Wild Prairie as Peewee has done well on the Orijen in the past (just stinky breath from high protein).

Barkingdog
June 17th, 2012, 04:00 PM
My dog Roxy has been developing a rash. I adopted her just under 3 months ago. She came from a farm in Alberta. The rash started developing not too long after that. It started on her chest and armpit area, and is now all over her body. The rash is very itchy, and her skin is flaky on each "blemish". Some blemishes are a bit crusty (symptom or from scratching I'm not sure). Roxy has also had a few episodes in the last week or so of excessive drooling...watery drool, not slimy. It will just drip, drip, drip from the corners of her mouth and make puddles. She has also had a day here and there of liquid diarrhea, but not chronic.

Roxy's little buddy Peewee was treated with antibiotics for a bacterial infection of his intestine about a month ago. Roxy didn't seem to catch that at the time, but maybe this is related?

Roxy is up to date on her vaccinations, has been in contact with "strange" dogs, goes to dog park, etc. She has also changed food from Iams and a rice & hamburger based homemade food to Orijen (and this month now Acana...not grain-free). Someone suggested to me that Roxy could be detoxing off the old food causing the rash. I am considering switching back to Iams just to see if the rash diminishes. She isn't scratching herself, but will fall over in enjoyment if I give her scratches.

I would like to try an antihistamine for a few days or a week to see if it is an allergic reaction or something else and then go from there. Before I do that, I would like some input. Does anyone know dosage and how long I can treat her for? I would like to treat her for a week, or maybe improvement would show up sooner?

Here are some photos...the dark ones show how her hair is raised where the blemishes are, and the light photos show the rash on her chest where it is easily visible. The last photo shows the scaly skin.

When you see the photos without the background history I just gave, what's your first reaction? Does the history make you think something else? I ask the different questions because so much has changed in Roxy's life that it is hard to pinpoint things. Food? Grass? Laundry detergent? Parasite? ???

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Oct112011.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Oct1120112.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Oct1120113.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Oct1120114.jpg

If your dog does have allergies maybe you should carry some benadryl with you when you get him out for walks. He could have allergies to bee stings too. I almost lost a dog from a bee stung. I got her to the vet just in time. My last dog stepped on a bee and he just had a benadryl shot .

Myka
June 17th, 2012, 07:47 PM
I carry Benadryl for me, so that's not a problem. Thanks! :)

Barkingdog
June 17th, 2012, 09:28 PM
I carry Benadryl for me, so that's not a problem. Thanks! :)

I had a dog that got stung by a bee and she could had dies if I had not gotten her to vet in time. this happen right on my daughter's birthday too.

Myka
June 20th, 2012, 09:56 PM
I would not like to jinx myself, but the change to Canidae pureLAND may be the answer. :fingerscr

Barkingdog
June 20th, 2012, 10:15 PM
I would not like to jinx myself, but the change to Canidae pureLAND may be the answer. :fingerscr

That is great news!!

Myka
September 1st, 2012, 07:02 PM
UPDATE:

So the Canidae wasn't the answer. :(

I took a look back on my notes and records of all the different things I have tried with Roxy and realized I could not correlate her reactions to food changes, environmental changes, shampoos, anything. It seems like the symptoms ebb and flow on their own schedule.

So I decided to take Roxy to a different vet. I found out about a vet here that practices holistic veterinary medicine in addition to traditional veterinary medicine. She believes Roxy suffers from Atopic Dermatitis which is similar to human eczema. It is a stand alone disease, and could be inflamed by food or environmental allergies, but not necessarily caused by allergies. The vet said Roxy may or may not have any specific food allergies as it is hard to tell while Roxy is on a kibble diet. She says there is no real cure for the disease, but it can often be controlled or improved by feeding unprocessed foods, improving whole body health, and treating symptoms as they occur.

So the vet told me to start by getting Roxy onto an unprocessed diet with a good vitamin/mineral/omega supplement and then revisit Roxy's condition in 6-8 weeks. She says Roxy's condition is on the mild side of moderate (at this moment) and believes we can improve Roxy's condition without medications at this point. This is good to hear. She sent me home with some McKillip's Ear Cleaner and Nizoral anti-dandruff/fungus shampoo to use when needed to treat seborrhea/rash.

http://www.medicinenet.com/pets/dog-health/atopic_dermatitis_in_dogs.htm

MaxaLisa
September 1st, 2012, 08:35 PM
I am glad that you found a vet that can help you with this, it sounds very encouraging. I also hold out hope not using a processed diet.

I have a new small breed pup here (10 1/2 months old) that was having some real "itch" issues, so I ran a few tests that have been very helpful here. If you're interested, here are what the results look like:
http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/249972/Allergy_Results_are_in#Post249972

Through the Spectrum Labs test on my last dog, I found out he was allergic to cotton of all things - I would have mever suspected.

Good luck with this new phase, I am hopeful for you!

Myka
September 1st, 2012, 09:10 PM
Thanks for the information Lisa. Is that the allergy testing that is like $600?

My new vet mentioned the allergy testing, but said often the results come back that the dog is allergic to many, many things (like the one you linked to) and that it is almost impossible to remove many of those allergens (like the grasses, weeds, tress, etc. so she finds the allergy testing to usually be not very useful. She said she would happily get it done if that's what I want, she just doesn't think it will give us much to go on. It would be interesting to see though.

MaxaLisa
September 2nd, 2012, 02:16 PM
The spectrum test, *without vet markup* is about $180 US$. I paid for the blood draw and sent it in myself, but the vet did have to set up the account and make the calls. She saved me a boatload of $$$ - vet markup usually at least doubles the price. The GP test was about $70 US$, but is more "out there" in terms of scientific basis, though very consistent with my obervations!

Many vets do not believe in the blood test, but do the cratch test. I had a vet year ago ay that he had better luck with his clients using the blood then the scratch, and it certainly has been true in my previou dogs, and now uing them for my current dogs.

Allergies are all about threshhold. I can't eliminate all those, but I can manage the environment to some degree, and the food I can control. So, taking the a bunch of stuff out of the diet, she is already no longer itching. I just challenged her with green beans, and her paws turned all red and she was really chewing them (green bean allergy can be related to peanut allergies).

So, if I can keep the total number of allergy problems under a certain threshhold, I can get her relatively symptom free. If something pushes her over whatever her threshhold is, then we will again see some type of symptom.

I've upped her vitamin C (sodium ascorbate), will add quercitin if needed, but hopefully I caught it early enough that it willl stay a minor annoyance rather than the alternative. Looking for some good antioxidant support for her too.

MaxaLisa
September 2nd, 2012, 02:18 PM
I should add, from my own experience of a lifetime of allergies, I think all allergy dog (and humans) benefit from a general multivitamin, extra C and bioflavanoids, a bit extra zinc (balanced with copper), and a yeast-free B supplement. I am still looking for these things to add to her regimine. These dogs are so sensisitve!

Myka
September 3rd, 2012, 10:53 AM
Don't forget omega 3 fatty acid! Natural anti-inflammatory. :) B-vitamins also make sense. I don't know anything about the others...will look into it. Thanks!

I'm going to see how Roxy does in the next couple months, and if the symptoms persist we will look at the allergy testing.

MaxaLisa
September 3rd, 2012, 01:31 PM
Yes, omega-3's!!

My last two couldn't tolerate any fish oil - hoping for better with this one!

Good luck to you :)

Myka
September 3rd, 2012, 03:17 PM
I don't think Roxy can tolerate fish oil either (my new vet mentioned not all dogs tolerate fish oil very well, allergy or not), but I am going to try again once we sort out the food thing. It's hard to say because it was almost a year ago I tried fish oil with her, and it seemed like it flared her up, but it's always so hard to tell exactly what it was that caused the flare up when there are so many uncontrollable potential irritants in the environment when dealing with Atopy. I'm using Platinum Performance right now which provides Omega 3 with flax mainly which Roxy does tolerate just fine. I'm hoping in the future I can add some fish oil along with the Platinum Performance and be ok.

MaxaLisa
September 3rd, 2012, 07:51 PM
My old girl, who had pancreas problems all her life, had difficulties with oils. Any fih oil, as she aged, caused fatty lipomas. What your vet said makes sense.

Myka
September 10th, 2012, 08:08 PM
This morning Roxy had her first meal with no kibble at all. A couple weeks before the change I had started adding cooked green lentils to her kibble since she had loose stools quite frequently in the last month, so I simply replaced the kibble with the Mountain Dog Food ground chicken. I also added 1 tbsp Eagle Pack Holistic Transition probiotic powder to each meal which is a product that I have had great success with many times.

Roxy has made the fairly quick change over quite easily. She has had no diarrhea during the switch over. She's eating about 2/3 ground chicken and 1/3 cooked lentils for a total of about 12 ounces per meal, two meals per day. Today I also added 1/2 a carrot. I plan to alternate vegetables, feeding one per week so I can tell if Roxy has a reaction to one. So this week it is carrots.

I was reading that I should be steaming the veggies for easier digestion in the doggie system, I will look into that a bit more to see if there is truth in it. I also plan to add a small amount of berries occasionally since they are high in antioxidants. I also know that sweet potatoes are high in antioxidants as well, so Roxy will get sweet potatoes instead of lentils sometimes too.

growler~GateKeeper
September 12th, 2012, 11:18 PM
:fingerscr No kibble does the trick for Roxy :goodvibes:

MaxaLisa
September 14th, 2012, 12:56 AM
Yes, veggies should be steamed. I used this one, and I also have a smaller one now that I'm down to one small dog.

http://www.amazon.com/Oster-5711-Mechanical-Steamer-White/dp/B00073HLMU/ref=pd_sim_k_1/185-9619330-0357661

Carrots are high in sugar, and sweet potatoes are starchy and also higher in sugar. Some dogs will be fine on them, others not. Steamed green beans are always good, as long as there's not a silly allergy.

Hope things are going well.

Myka
September 14th, 2012, 04:50 PM
Thanks Growler!

Yes, you are right about those foods Lisa, everything in moderation though, right? I hope to get Roxy's stomach used to changing food items often so that she can have something different every couple days. I think this is the best bet for a well-rounded diet.

MaxaLisa
September 15th, 2012, 03:14 AM
... everything in moderation though, right?
Sometimes not :( I hope that the rotation works, but some allergic individuals won't be able to handle it well. I do hope you can find the right foods!

Myka
September 15th, 2012, 06:59 PM
I honestly don't think she has food allergies. I've never been overly convinced of this. I'm pretty sure she had Demodectic Mange last fall which is something that healthy adult dogs aren't normally susceptible to, plus I haven't been able to really link her physical reactions to any particular ingredients in her foods. It just makes me think she has/had a weakened immune system which could be as simple as stress or poor nutrition or as challenging as kidney or liver disease. Some dogs are definitely more susceptible to poor nutrition than others, maybe she's just sensitive. After Roxy has been on the raw diet for a couple months I plan to get a full blood panel to see how things are going. Thyroid/hormones are another thought since she was quite obese when I adopted her and ate a poor diet of Iams, white rice, and a bit of ground beef and carrots.

MaxaLisa
September 16th, 2012, 05:36 PM
.... Thyroid/hormones are another thought since she was quite obese when I adopted her and ate a poor diet of Iams, white rice, and a bit of ground beef and carrots.
Thyroid should always be checked as one of the first steps, but a lot of dogs, starting at about 3 years old typically, or a bit younger, start putting on "kibble weight", from the grains, corn, etc.

Marty11
September 16th, 2012, 05:59 PM
Hey Myka, I am not convinced of food allergies either. I did all the trials too. I think my pooch has auto immune deficiencies. She is on vanectyl p, one dose a day, it has helped alot. However she is putting on the pounds. She is a happier dog.

MaxaLisa
September 16th, 2012, 06:12 PM
Unless you did a careful elimination diet with only cooked food, changing one thing at a time, then that's not sufficient enough to rule out food allergies or sensitivities. It's also very possible that there is more than one thing going on.

Myka
September 16th, 2012, 06:20 PM
Roxy is actually doing really well right now. Her ears look good, her feet look good, no rash. No scratching, no head shaking, no foul smell, and so far no anal gland over-filling troubles. She looks pretty normal right now, but it's too early to be celebrating yet! ;)

I've started adding in one 1000 mg Wild Fish Oil capsule twice a day. Although now I think of it I should probably just be giving one capsule per day since she's also getting the Platinum Performance. She seems to be tolerating this just fine, but again it is too early to tell. She's had the fish oil now for about a week.

Thyroid should always be checked as one of the first steps, but a lot of dogs, starting at about 3 years old typically, or a bit younger, start putting on "kibble weight", from the grains, corn, etc.

Yeah, that's normal no matter the diet. Same with people. As we all get older we require less calories and become more and more susceptible to high-glycemic foods.

Hey Myka, I am not convinced of food allergies either. I did all the trials too. I think my pooch has auto immune deficiencies. She is on vanectyl p, one dose a day, it has helped alot. However she is putting on the pounds. She is a happier dog.

I'm glad you're having an easier time now!

Unless you did a careful elimination diet with only cooked food, changing one thing at a time, then that's not sufficient enough to rule out food allergies or sensitivities. It's also very possible that there is more than one thing going on.

Oh of course, but I couldn't link diet changes to food changes. They didn't coincide. Plus, putting her back on the Iams + white rice + ground beef diet didn't cure the problem either. She didn't have noticeable skin issues when I adopted her. Although I do believe she either came with Demo Mange or the stress from changing families and moving 500 km suppressed her immune system enough for the Demo to get a foothold.

Myka
September 22nd, 2012, 09:03 PM
Ok, so it looks like I am finally winning the battle! :thumbs up

Roxy has been doing well so far on the following foods: chicken, turkey, sweet potatoes, carrots, and lentils. She is also doing well on the Platinum Performance vit/min/omega supplement as well as a 1000 mg Fish Oil capsule. We are still working on creating a good spectrum of tolerable foods, but we are only adding one new food per week so if there is a reaction we will know what is causing it. I've got an old stove top steamer I'm using right now. Roxy is eating about 24 ounces per day (1.5 lbs) which is 2% of her body weight. Roxy gets 50% meat & bone and 50% green lentils/sweet potatoes/veggie/fruit.

Here is tonight's dinner (chicken, green lentils, sweet potatoes):
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Roxy/Sept222012_zpsc1998c51.jpg

MaxaLisa
September 23rd, 2012, 04:43 PM
Glad it's going so well!

Myka
September 23rd, 2012, 09:06 PM
Thanks MaxaLisa! So far so good! Now, to get some better variety in there... :D

Myka
October 8th, 2013, 09:58 PM
UPDATE: For anyone interested!

Well, I've come to the conclusion that Roxy's atopic dermatitis is seasonal. Thanks to this thread I can look back and see what was happening and I see very clearly that Roxy's skin troubles start to show up in September and wane mid-late October. She also has a mild bout in the spring just after the snow has finished melting. Roxy is currently in a bout of "hives" and has been for the last 3 weeks or so. We seem to be over the hump now though.

3 things that have been miracle lifesavers for Roxy:

- Earth Bath Tee Tree Oil & Aloe Shampoo (weekly baths when irritated)
- Apple Cider Vinegar mixed 50/50 with water sprayed on feet, belly, genital area (daily when irritated)
- McKillip's Solution Ear Cleaner (daily when irritated)

Our (holistic) vet has suggested to not do allergy testing. She said in her experience, dogs with atopic dermatitis have test results that essentially read "allergic to everything", and particularly outdoor allergens. She said there is no point running around trying to bubble wrap the whole world to protect Roxy from every possible allergen. Our vet did recommend a few different supplements to try to help, but so far they haven't made an obvious difference. We also tried Benedryl even though our vet said it only works for 30% of dogs, and Roxy is not in that 30% of course! She suggested the raw diet for Roxy which she's been on for two years now, keep her bedding clean, give her frequent baths with gentle shampoo, and treat the symptoms as they come up. So far this has been a good method. Since atopic dermatitis often becomes worse as the dog ages, we are holding off on medicating her until absolutely necessary. There are definitely a few weeks of the year where Roxy is really, really itchy, but I think the side effects of allergy drugs (Atopica or steroids) is not worth it at this point. Roxy is definitely on the "mild" side of the scale this disease can often take. I have my fingers crossed that Roxy is one of the dogs whose allergies do not progress as she ages - so far so good.

A layman's read: http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/dogs-atopic-dermatitis-causes-diagnosis-treatment
A veterinary paper: http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/172/8/201.full

momoftwofuzzies
October 9th, 2013, 09:26 AM
I have a dog with allergies as well. My vet gave me a topical steroid spray (which didn't really seem to work for him but maybe for your dog). He also takes one Reactine (Zyrtec) per day. It works better than Benadryl, but he still scratches. I also give him the fish oil; thought it might help with dry skin but I don't know....his coat is great though!

growler~GateKeeper
October 11th, 2013, 12:15 AM
Glad to hear things are going well for you & Roxy :goodvibes:

MaxaLisa
October 13th, 2013, 04:37 AM
Myka, I'm really glad that you have things "stable". The seasonal part makes sense.

I understand what your vet is saying about the allergy testing. I know when I tested my new girl, all the environmental stuff lit up, so there is nothing specific to tackle, but all of it. However, it has helped me with the grasses - she loves to roll in the grass, and I know which ones she is most allergic to and I can diminish that. It's also good for me to know that she is not allergic to her bedding, my last dog was allergic to cotton of all things :eek: I also find the food portion helpful, but everything still has to be challenged, so I can see that either way.

Anyway, it sounds like w/o the allergy tests you have things managed, which is a huge relief, congratulations :highfive: