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Thorin's results have come back

Rgeurts
October 11th, 2011, 02:02 PM
We got Thorins results today. The results were not definitive, but it's suspected Histiocytic Sarcoma :(
Our vet is recommending Immunohistochemistry stains for a definitive diagnosis. Apparently Malignant fibrous histiocytoma is often diagnosed as Histiocytic Sarcoma (both localized and disseminated), but has a better prognosis in some cases, so that's what I'm hoping for. It's pretty sad when you hope and :pray: for one type of cancer over another. She wants us to consider another round of chemo to help keep it at bay.

He handled the chemo very well, but when do you say enough is enough? Even though he handled it well, it obviously didn't do much for him and does have the chance to cause liver/kidney damage as well as the potential for causing Hemolytic Anemia and other chemo-resistant forms of cancer. We love him dearly and would do anything for him. I'm so confused :(
I do trust both of our vets, very much. One thing I won't do though is put him through staging (bone marrow biopsies) or any more surgery. He doesn't need to have anymore pain.

I haven't told Shaun yet and don't think I will today. It's his birthday, not much of a present. He was really being postive and hoping for the best scenario :(

hazelrunpack
October 11th, 2011, 02:42 PM
:grouphug: I'm sorry it wasn't better news for you and Thorin, Robyn. :2huggers:

Bina
October 11th, 2011, 02:55 PM
Having no experience with these cancers all I can offer is Best Wishes.

Dog Dancer
October 11th, 2011, 03:51 PM
Robyn, I'm so sorry to hear about Thorin's results. You know we were all hoping for better news too. I can understand your confusion over how to proceed. Myself I'm pretty certain I would not do chemo on my dogs. It's just my gut sense after watching my Dad go down that road. That said, I've not been in the position to have to decide that. What kind of prognosis time wise is there if you don't do the chemo? Again, so sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayers are with you guys always. :grouphug: We know that no matter what you and Shaun will do what's best for Thorin. Happy Birthdy to Shaun!

renegaderuby
October 11th, 2011, 05:19 PM
Very sorry to hear thorin's results. Seeing your furbaby going thru this is very hard, and it does make you guestion when is enough, actually enough. For every animal, and its human..that always differs. I have a friend whose dog literally is a science experiment with md anderson. Had cancer, was pretty much exhausting all the "normal" vet options.. Owner really pushed and fought for him..and got a "human" doctor to do an "experimental" therapy. Dog has lived "extremely" comfortable and at least a year and a half longer thus far.
I COMPLETELY understand you saying "no more surgery, no bone biopsys". You know he's had enough of that. and I'm sure if he could talk he would say "thank you".
Your doing all you can do, and you love him. Just look inside yourself , and in his eyes and you'll know when enough is enough.
HUGS...and I'll be praying for your furbaby.

Sylvie
October 11th, 2011, 07:25 PM
Robyn, I am so sorry. I was hoping for better news. Thorin deserves it. I agree that I know you and hubby will do what's best for your baby. I understand about not telling him. Hope he has a great birthday.

You are all in my prayers. :grouphug:

Goldfields
October 11th, 2011, 08:25 PM
So sorry to hear that you unable to share the burden of that diagnosis, that's not news I'd give my husband either on his birthday. Please wish Shaun a Happy birthday from Ian and I. At least you've got all your wonderful caring friends here to talk to about dear old Thorin. You are already thinking about quality of life as compared to quantity. No-one loves that boy more than both of you so it must be your decision how you progress now, not your Vet's. Awful hard time to be going through no matter what you do, so big hugs for both of you.

growler~GateKeeper
October 12th, 2011, 01:06 AM
I'm so sorry Robyn :( :2huggers:

Rgeurts
October 12th, 2011, 10:39 AM
:grouphug: I'm sorry it wasn't better news for you and Thorin, Robyn. :2huggers:

Thank you Hazel :grouphug:
I'm still hoping it was a misdiagnosis. It's going to cost just under $300 for the stains, but at least we'll know for sure what type of cancer it is. If it is Histiocytic Sarcoma, it won't tell us whether it's primary or disseminated, but with multiple tumors, I guess that one is pretty obvious anyway. At least it will help us to decide how we are going to proceed.

Having no experience with these cancers all I can offer is Best Wishes.

Bina, thank you for the best wishes :grouphug:
Without all the wonderful people here who actually understand what we're going through, it would be so much tougher.


Robyn, I'm so sorry to hear about Thorin's results. You know we were all hoping for better news too. I can understand your confusion over how to proceed. Myself I'm pretty certain I would not do chemo on my dogs. It's just my gut sense after watching my Dad go down that road. That said, I've not been in the position to have to decide that. What kind of prognosis time wise is there if you don't do the chemo? Again, so sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayers are with you guys always. :grouphug: We know that no matter what you and Shaun will do what's best for Thorin. Happy Birthdy to Shaun!

Thank you, DD :grouphug:
I'm still hoping for the lesser of the 2 evils. We should know by Friday. As for the chemo, I have a couple of family members who went through it as well. It was horrible. I always said I would never put any of my babies through it. My vet "educated" me on chemo for animals. They do it much differently than they do for people. With people, they give the highest possible doses, toxic levels, in hopes to kill the cancer. With animals, they use the lowest possible doses. It's almost impossible to kill cancer in animals, so they use just enough to slow the growth of the cells and possibly put it into remission. They opt for quality of life. So most animals handle it just fine. There are, of course, possible side effects just like with anything, but the chance is much lower than in people. So I would definitely do it again, IF I thought it would help. But everything I have read (and it isn't much as this form of cancer is rare and there isn't a lot of info) said that the disseminated form doesn't respond to chemo. We'll have to wait and see what the results of the stain are.

pbpatti
October 12th, 2011, 11:11 AM
Robyn, :grouphug::pray:, Thorin knows that you have his best interest at heart. You and Shaun will know what to do. patti talk to you soon......

Rgeurts
October 12th, 2011, 11:12 AM
Very sorry to hear thorin's results. Seeing your furbaby going thru this is very hard, and it does make you guestion when is enough, actually enough. For every animal, and its human..that always differs. I have a friend whose dog literally is a science experiment with md anderson. Had cancer, was pretty much exhausting all the "normal" vet options.. Owner really pushed and fought for him..and got a "human" doctor to do an "experimental" therapy. Dog has lived "extremely" comfortable and at least a year and a half longer thus far.
I COMPLETELY understand you saying "no more surgery, no bone biopsys". You know he's had enough of that. and I'm sure if he could talk he would say "thank you".
Your doing all you can do, and you love him. Just look inside yourself , and in his eyes and you'll know when enough is enough.
HUGS...and I'll be praying for your furbaby.

Thank you so much, RR. Prayers are always appreciated :grouphug:
Do you know what the experimental therapy was? The one thing makes it hard to remain positive is the type of cancer. It's not "just" cancer, but part of an immune disorder, a systemic disease. Apparently, it's quite complicated and there just hasn't been much research, so there isn't a lot of info available except that it has a very poor prognosis. The localized form isn't "as" bad. The dog can live up to 18 months with chemo, but the disseminated form, it's only 30-120 days from diagnosis with or without chemo (chemo doesn't seem to affect it because of multiple tumors). So I'm really hoping it's a misdiagnosis and that the tumors are Malignant Fibrous Histiocytoma, which is commonly mistaken for what they have diagnosed him with.

Robyn, I am so sorry. I was hoping for better news. Thorin deserves it. I agree that I know you and hubby will do what's best for your baby. I understand about not telling him. Hope he has a great birthday.

You are all in my prayers. :grouphug:

Thank you, Sylvie :grouphug:
He had a very good birthday. His dad flew in from Winnipeg on Monday and spent the day with him yesterday. He enjoyed it :)

So sorry to hear that you unable to share the burden of that diagnosis, that's not news I'd give my husband either on his birthday. Please wish Shaun a Happy birthday from Ian and I. At least you've got all your wonderful caring friends here to talk to about dear old Thorin. You are already thinking about quality of life as compared to quantity. No-one loves that boy more than both of you so it must be your decision how you progress now, not your Vet's. Awful hard time to be going through no matter what you do, so big hugs for both of you.

Thank you, GF, and Ian as well :grouphug:
It does make it much easier to have the support of all you wonderful people :cloud9:
I think I'm going to wait to tell Shaun until the results of the stain come back. No point in us both worrying over it. If it turns out not to be Histiocytic, it will be good news for him. As for the quality of life, Thorin still has that. He moves a lot slower than he used to, but he's old and has Arthritis too. He's still a piggy, loves his food and treats. He still plays with Nookie Monster daily and he still wags his little bum every time we talk to him or hug him. When he stops doing those things, as hard as it will be, we will let him go. Dr. Marsden is going to come to the house to set him free. :cry:

Rgeurts
October 12th, 2011, 11:18 AM
I'm so sorry Robyn :( :2huggers:

Thank you, growler :grouphug:
I know you have all been here, too. The concern for us and our babies is very appreciated :)

Robyn, :grouphug::pray:, Thorin knows that you have his best interest at heart. You and Shaun will know what to do. patti talk to you soon......

patti, he definitely knows how much we love him. We tell him every day :cloud9: How are little Buddy and beautiful Sasha today? :)

renegaderuby
October 12th, 2011, 04:33 PM
I'm not sure what cancer, or what treatment it was. I will try to contact her to see if she at the very least will part with a "contact" you can start off with. If nothing else you can "investigate" if there are any other options for handsome (i mean thorin). :)

renegaderuby
October 12th, 2011, 04:37 PM
Ok. Sent her an email. Told her I had a friend who was wanting to investigate "other" options in dog cancer..and that since her boy had done so well, would she be willing to part with a phone number (or contact information) so that you could do your "own" investigating. I told her if she wasnt comfortable with giving the info , we'd understand..and that at the very least would she please pray for hansome (er i mean thorin).
We believe in the power of prayer..and she WILL pray. that I promise you.

mastifflover
October 13th, 2011, 07:45 AM
Robyn you and Thorin are always in our thoughts.

Rgeurts
October 13th, 2011, 10:31 AM
Ok. Sent her an email. Told her I had a friend who was wanting to investigate "other" options in dog cancer..and that since her boy had done so well, would she be willing to part with a phone number (or contact information) so that you could do your "own" investigating. I told her if she wasnt comfortable with giving the info , we'd understand..and that at the very least would she please pray for hansome (er i mean thorin).
We believe in the power of prayer..and she WILL pray. that I promise you.

Thank you, RR :2huggers:
Hopefully she is willing to part with the info, but if not, I understand :)
We believe in the power of prayer as well, which I'm sure is the biggest reason we haven't gone crazy with all the issues over the past year :laughing:
And I agree, Thorin IS a handsome boy :cloud9: :lovestruck:, and he's such a cuddler! That's probably what I'll miss the most. He sleeps with me a lot. He will lay in front of me and scoot himself back against my tummy, let me put my arms around him and sleep (he uses Shaun's pillow because he goes to be a lot later than I do) :D

Robyn you and Thorin are always in our thoughts.

Thank you, Robin :grouphug:
How are you and yours doing? I haven't seen you much lately.

Dog Dancer
October 13th, 2011, 11:31 AM
Thanks for that info about the doggy chemo Robyn. Still not sure if I'd do it, I know I wouldn't with these two due to their ages, maybe a younger dog. Not something I'm committed to at this point, but would have to face as it came to me I guess. Lord willing it never will.

How are the boys today? You all remain in my thoughts and prayers daily. You are such a good mommy to your boys.

Shadow would sooner run in front of a truck than cuddle! She's never been touchy feely. She's a very deep dog, but not into cuddles at all. It always amazes me when she comes over and wants to be petted. When she was younger once in a while when we'd be walking she'd stop dead and when I asked what the problem was she'd get up and put her front paws on my shoulders and just want a hug. It was so special because it hardly ever happened! The first time she did that to DH he almost passed out - he couldn't believe it. Of course she can't do it now, but when she stops walking I do give her hugs, that's about as close to cuddles as we'll ever get.

Rgeurts
October 13th, 2011, 02:18 PM
Shadow would sooner run in front of a truck than cuddle!

:eek::eek::laughing:

She's never been touchy feely. She's a very deep dog, but not into cuddles at all.

I think the reason I will miss it so much is because Nookie is the same as Shadow lol. If he hasn't seen me for a couple of hours, he will run up to me with his ears pinned back, tail going and he just talks and talks. It only lasts for a couple of minutes, then he goes back to being his little "aloof" self :rolleyes:
He is a loving dog, but not a cuddler at all, though he's been getting better about it. But that could be because I force it on him :laughing:


It always amazes me when she comes over and wants to be petted. When she was younger once in a while when we'd be walking she'd stop dead and when I asked what the problem was she'd get up and put her front paws on my shoulders and just want a hug. It was so special because it hardly ever happened! The first time she did that to DH he almost passed out - he couldn't believe it. Of course she can't do it now, but when she stops walking I do give her hugs, that's about as close to cuddles as we'll ever get.

DD, that is just precious!!! I could see how that would be a very special treat for you and DH :cloud9: :lovestruck:

Thorin wasn't a cuddler at all as a pup. In fact, he didn't like us much :(
The people we got him from kept him and his sibblings in a box with a lid on it. They said they were too old to chase them around, so they weren't socialized at all. He was terrified of us. He sat in my lap, shook and peed all over me on the ride home from getting him. Poor little guy. He wouldn't even look at us for the first few weeks. We had a behaviour specialist at the SK vet teaching hospital tell us not to force him, to give him a box with a lid, make a little opening for him and allow him to come to us at his pace. It was close to 2 months after we got him when I got really sick. I didn't have any family or friends and Shaun was always working. Thorin still wouldn't let us love him at all and would turn his face into the corner of the box whenever we came in to the bedroom, so the advice we were given obviously wasn't working lol. I couldn't sleep laying down (Bronchitis) and was really feeling sorry for myself one night, so I went in to the room, picked him up out of the box, took him in to the living room with me and made him stay on my lap while I loved on him. He wiggled, squirmed and even bit me a couple of times (not hard), but I refused to let him go. He finally quit squirming and I fell asleep. I woke up the next morning and he was still laying on my lap, sleeping too. He has been my little luvbug every since :cloud9: :lovestruck:
The experts don't always know what's best! If we had continued what he told us to do, I don't think Thorin would have ever come to us on his own terms :shrug:

renegaderuby
October 13th, 2011, 04:32 PM
DD, that is just precious!!! I could see how that would be a very special treat for you and DH :cloud9: :lovestruck:

Thorin wasn't a cuddler at all as a pup. In fact, he didn't like us much :(
The people we got him from kept him and his sibblings in a box with a lid on it. They said they were too old to chase them around, so they weren't socialized at all. He was terrified of us. He sat in my lap, shook and peed all over me on the ride home from getting him. Poor little guy. He wouldn't even look at us for the first few weeks. We had a behaviour specialist at the SK vet teaching hospital tell us not to force him, to give him a box with a lid, make a little opening for him and allow him to come to us at his pace. It was close to 2 months after we got him when I got really sick. I didn't have any family or friends and Shaun was always working. Thorin still wouldn't let us love him at all and would turn his face into the corner of the box whenever we came in to the bedroom, so the advice we were given obviously wasn't working lol. I couldn't sleep laying down (Bronchitis) and was really feeling sorry for myself one night, so I went in to the room, picked him up out of the box, took him in to the living room with me and made him stay on my lap while I loved on him. He wiggled, squirmed and even bit me a couple of times (not hard), but I refused to let him go. He finally quit squirming and I fell asleep. I woke up the next morning and he was still laying on my lap, sleeping too. He has been my little luvbug every since :cloud9: :lovestruck:
The experts don't always know what's best! If we had continued what he told us to do, I don't think Thorin would have ever come to us on his own terms :shrug:



Oh wow. That made me cry. such a heartwarming story! Ruby was my cuddle bug from the very begining. toby and saydee..not so much. they'll tollerate it..but they'd rather play. Prissy likes to be cuddled, and colby has to get as close to you as he possibly can (and who cares if you cant breathe). Colby and Ruby have "my mommys lap" squabbles. They dont fight..but one will push the other off...and "win" and then it starts all over again. LOL

I"M SO HAPPY you have a cuddler and that you finally IGNORED the so called experts advice and helped him realise that "love' is a good thing.

Winston
November 17th, 2011, 09:46 PM
Rguerts how is your cuddle bum doing?? :D

Goldfields
November 17th, 2011, 10:28 PM
Don't know how I missed this, Robyn, Thorin's story, kudos to you for doing what your common sense told you to. I was given a male ACD that had been locked up for the first 12 months of his life and he never got over that, but rather than let him hide in his kennel I would put a lead on him, drag him out, then sit in the doorway for hours, just talking quietly to him while he got used to his yard and me, and not allowing him to bolt in and hide. By day 9 he was so relaxed (with ME) that when out walking him I sensed a sudden movement and spun fast enough to avoid a playful nip on the backside. He was always fearful though, so good on you for not letting Thorin go on hiding.