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Nookie has lost another pound-we're stumped

Rgeurts
September 27th, 2011, 11:31 AM
Well, Nookie monster continues to lose weight. We're getting quite concerned. He has went from 110 lbs down to 85 lbs. The weight loss started when we took him off kibble several months ago. Then he went through a "spurt" where he lost a lot of weight very fast along with a lot of his coat. It became rough, brittle and very thin/frizzy. We found out he had both hook worms and whip worms. Ok, so deworm and all should be well! It has been 2 months now, he is parasite free (we have been doing weekly fecals). But he still continues to lose weight. The loss has slowed down to about a pound a week, but being free of the parasites, he should be gaining. I'm happy to say that his coat issues did clear up. He is now back to being thick, furry and very soft :lovestruck: :cloud9:, but again, the weight loss is really starting to scare me :(

Dr. Marsden is NOT a fan of kibble, even though he was part of the panel to formulate Orijen. But he asked if we wanted to try kibble again (I think he is just as confused about the weight loss as we are). I told him no for one reason: When he was on kibble, he would spit up/throw up several times a day. Even on the complete home cooked, he would spit up/throw up depending on the veggies. But since we've had him on The Honest Kitchen, he may do it once every couple of weeks (usually when we add a new herb for the first few days or a new treat). So I really don't want to have to resort to the kibble again. He is getting between 4.5-5 lbs of cooked food a day (that's about 8 lbs of raw). Dr. Marsden had us add in some quality wheat free oats (1 cup a day), but it didn't seem to do much. So we're now giving him 1 cup of cooked barley along with the oats per day. I'm hoping and :pray:'ing this will help. We will continue to weigh him weekly. In the meantime, does anyone have any suggestions or think you may know what's going on? I know sometimes extra sets of eyes see things that ours don't :)

Just an FYI: His thyroid levels are in the normal range and his EPI seems to be under control. We thought at first that may be it, but his stools are formed and very normal looking. I'm sure we may be missing something to check, I just don't know what :shrug:

Thanks :)

Robyn

Dog Dancer
September 27th, 2011, 12:16 PM
Robyn, so sorry to hear that Nookie is continuing to lose weight. How very upsetting that must be. I have no advice to offer unfortunately, only my support and understanding of where you are. Haven't weighed Shadow in a couple weeks, and am afraid to. Will be taking her in to weigh her tonight on the way home from work. It sounds like Nookie is eating plenty, how very confusing for you. :grouphug:

Winston
September 27th, 2011, 12:46 PM
Robyn I just wanted to send you and Nookie Monster a great big hug! :grouphug:

Have you ever tried or heard of Satin Balls? A member here used these to put weight on one of her Great dane's so I am wondering if it will work for your Nookie.

Here is the link to the website with the recipe:

http://www.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm

Good Luck MF! :thumbs up :grouphug:

Dog Dancer
September 27th, 2011, 12:56 PM
Winston I was thinking of that too. I may even try that with Shadow.

Winston
September 27th, 2011, 01:09 PM
When Frenchy was a member she used these for her dog Nellie and she had great results! I hope it works for both of you!

Rgeurts
September 27th, 2011, 01:42 PM
Thanks to you both, DD and Winston :grouphug: :grouphug:

Frenchy gave me the recipe last year when Nookie was losing so much weight (due to muscle wasting from pred and before his EPI was diagnosed). I can't use it for Nookie, though. He is allergic to wheat and can't have the raw ground beef. He already has a really hard time fighting off the parasites and bacteria he comes in contact with. At his age, he really shouldn't even be susceptible to the worms he has had :shrug:
Dr. marsden has him on a new herb mixture to help him fight those kind of things off as well as to help control the seizures. I'll print the recipe and take it in when I go to weigh him on Friday. Maybe Dr. Marsden will have some ideas to substitute for the things he can't have :shrug:

The hardest thing is not knowing why he is still losing. It will be nice to put weight on him, but we need to figure out "why". He's such a complicated little guy.

And thank you both for the care and concern :grouphug:

Rgeurts
September 27th, 2011, 01:43 PM
DD, you and Shadow are in my thoughts and prayers, as always! I will say an extra one for her weight today! Let us know how she is doing :grouphug: :)

chico2
September 27th, 2011, 03:47 PM
Robyn,it is so scary watching your dog/cat lose weight,not knowing why and I am so sorry Nookie is losing...I have no advice to give,just my :pray: that beautiful Nookie will one day be free of all the problems:grouphug:

Rgeurts
September 27th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Thank you so much, chico! To be honest, Nookie is actually doing quite well, save for the weight loss :shrug:

We expect that he will have a seizure within the next couple of days (he's been very pre-ictal the last 2-3 days), but it's been 7.5 weeks, so farther apart than they have been! And he's had great energy, appetite and is starting to be a real luv bug. He does the cutest things I've ever seen. When we were at Dr. Marsdens, he was standing at the counter filling out the notes on Nookies file. Nookie sat by him, looked up at him and howled a bit, then stuck his paw in Dr. Marsdens hand... and just sat there, looking up at him and held his hand for about 45 seconds!! It was absolutely adorable... the receptionists and techs were just making such a fuss over it, and even Dr. Marsden laughed (he's not a "jolly" kinda man, very reserved lol) :D
It's just the weight loss and a few minor things here and there. So I guess I just need to be very thankful that's he's doing as well as he is :cloud9:

I tend to panic when something (like the weight loss) happens. I would just be lost without him and/or our beautiful Thorin.

hazelrunpack
September 27th, 2011, 06:51 PM
Is it possible it's just an absorption issue? His intestines just not absorbing nutrients well enough? Maybe a digestive enzyme would help?

Sylvie
September 28th, 2011, 07:49 AM
Wow, if it's not one thing it is another for you and your guys.:frustrated:

Sorry nothing to add to the suggestions, :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to you and hubby and the furkids.

Rgeurts
September 28th, 2011, 09:59 AM
Is it possible it's just an absorption issue? His intestines just not absorbing nutrients well enough? Maybe a digestive enzyme would help?

Thank you for the thought, Hazel :grouphug:

We were thinking that, too. But he's on Pancrease-V already, for a little over a year now. His trypsin levels are a bit deficient, so he can't digest proteins without the porcine powder. But when he was having issues, before the EPI was under control and he lost all the weight, his stools were huge, very light in color and looked like cowpies. His stools are still very large and he goes 2-3 times a day, which would make you think that he isn't digesting as much as he should be. But his stools are a great color and look very good :shrug:
Dr. Marsden thinks he's just one of those dogs that has to have the "good" grains to keep his weight stable. If that's the case, he should have gained by the time I take him in again this Friday. If not, I think I'm going to insist on another TLI (Trypsin Like Immunoreactivity) test. It's possible we may just need to increase the Pancrease-V. I just hate to do it without testing first because if we give him too much, it makes him SO sick. Wish us luck for Friday! Hopefully the addition of the oats and barley will have helped :)


Wow, if it's not one thing it is another for you and your guys.:frustrated:

Sorry nothing to add to the suggestions, :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to you and hubby and the furkids.

Thank you Sylvia :grouphug:
It's kinda funny... pbpatti and I were talking and she said it's a good thing she knows me personally, otherwise, Munchausen by Proxy may come to mind :eek::laughing:

I think with all the issues we've had, I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that, because I'm sure I would be thinking it!
How are yours doing? Has Bree made a full recovery? :)

Sylvie
September 28th, 2011, 10:56 AM
I have never thought of Munchausen by Proxy when I think of you, however I do think that you and hubby are wonderful people.

Thanks for asking about Bree, yes she has had a full recovery and is doing quite well. Her and hubby are so close that if she were human I would be jealous :laughing:

Our Shadow is hanging in there and we just go day by day with her. She will be 14 in November.

Kobe and Keesha are doing well. Keesha is very nervous right now as we are having our roof shingled and she can't understand where all the noise is coming from. Poor baby. But she is more accepting than she was on Monday.

breeze
September 28th, 2011, 11:19 AM
It's kinda funny... pbpatti and I were talking and she said it's a good thing she knows me personally, otherwise, Munchausen by Proxy may come to mind :eek::laughing:



why would anyone think that??? this has me confused :confused:

you are doing what you can for Nook, you know him much better than we do!!!!

before Bree turned 5 (this year) we had a very hard time keeping weight on her, (we thought we would loose her a couple of times) she also can't take any medication at all......she would eat and eat but always loose weight. The vets said it was IBD, so I started added seameal, kelp, and L glutimine to repair her bowels and a diegestive enzimes (have to go look up the name if you want it) , she was on this for 2 years, all the while she was losing weight, she went down to 60lbs at one time..but nothing we did helped... changed her food, made home cooked everything I could think of.. at one time we were giving her slippery elm, for the nurtrients and to help when she had a crisis..

then for some reason, she started to gain weight, why?? we don't know
she seems to have turned a corner but we are always on guard ,we are always very careful of what she eats. we also must make sure that she is eating enough calories for what she puts out....running and playing that sort of thing...

Rgeurts
September 28th, 2011, 01:27 PM
I have never thought of Munchausen by Proxy when I think of you, however I do think that you and hubby are wonderful people.

Thank you, Sylvie. It's mutual! :grouphug:

Thanks for asking about Bree, yes she has had a full recovery and is doing quite well. Her and hubby are so close that if she were human I would be jealous :laughing:

Too funny!!!

Our Shadow is hanging in there and we just go day by day with her. She will be 14 in November.

Kobe and Keesha are doing well. Keesha is very nervous right now as we are having our roof shingled and she can't understand where all the noise is coming from. Poor baby. But she is more accepting than she was on Monday.

I'm glad to hear Bree is doing well! She's such a beauty :cloud9:
I'm glad that Shadow is holding her own too... it's so hard watching them age. Thorin is still very puppy like in personality and will to play. But his poor old body just doesn't cooperate. I think his Arthritis is really getting to him, so we may have to start the Metacam on a regular basis. And poor Keesha... Thorin gets really freaked out with noises that are out of the "norm" for him too. Give her a hug for me (and an extra treat!!).

why would anyone think that??? this has me confused :confused:

you are doing what you can for Nook, you know him much better than we do!!!!

before Bree turned 5 (this year) we had a very hard time keeping weight on her, (we thought we would loose her a couple of times) she also can't take any medication at all......she would eat and eat but always loose weight. The vets said it was IBD, so I started added seameal, kelp, and L glutimine to repair her bowels and a diegestive enzimes (have to go look up the name if you want it) , she was on this for 2 years, all the while she was losing weight, she went down to 60lbs at one time..but nothing we did helped... changed her food, made home cooked everything I could think of.. at one time we were giving her slippery elm, for the nurtrients and to help when she had a crisis..

then for some reason, she started to gain weight, why?? we don't know
she seems to have turned a corner but we are always on guard ,we are always very careful of what she eats. we also must make sure that she is eating enough calories for what she puts out....running and playing that sort of thing...

Breeze, I didn't know you had so many issues with your Bree :eek:
It sounds very similar to what Nookie is going through! I would love the name of the enzymes you used. We have him on Pancrease-V, but it's $70.00 for a small 100 gram jar :eek:. Along with his and Thorins herbs, his other medications and the home cooked diet for each, it's costing us about $1400 a month. So anywere we can save money at this point is a blessing :laughing:


And for clarification, pbpatti was joking when she said it :D
It was around the same time that RottieLover was posting that she had put down one of the dogs she had "rescued" shortly after posting how much progress the dog had made, and was continuing to make. Munchausen by proxy came up in that thread a few times. Patti and I were talking on the phone and she was joking about it with me and I told her I had actually wondered if some people may think that, but hope not! It just kinda stuck in my head and now I can't help but think if people sometimes wonder because it seems like we are always having issues of some kind :shrug:

But DH and I love both of our boys dearly and would literally do anything within our power to help them. :lovestruck: :cloud9:

And thank you both :grouphug: :grouphug:

pbpatti
September 28th, 2011, 02:36 PM
Really....I was only joking about the Munchausen :D Robyn and her DH are great doggie people and only ever try the best they can, it's just that Nookie.....well, he's Nookie:lovestruck:.

Robyn, I was thinking...oops me bad:D, maybe Nookie is only supposed to be 80 lbs? It has been sometime since I have seen him but does he look thin? Undernourished?Skinny? patti

Dog Dancer
September 28th, 2011, 02:51 PM
Funny how things get twisted around. I took the Munchausen reference to be a joke for sure. I didn't realize Bree had so many issues either. What a lucky bunch of pups on this board who have parents who will move heaven and earth for them. I wish I could offer some suggestions on Nookie's weight issues, but sadly cannot. Just lots of hugs..:grouphug::grouphug:

breeze
September 28th, 2011, 03:10 PM
Bree has been a sick pup 3 1/2-4 years out of her 5 years, I don't talk about it much :o I understand what you are all going through and my heart goes out to each and everyone of you's)

this is the first year last fall to this fall that things have turned around for her (knocking on my head cause well we all know it's made of wood, and that my head is stronger than wood :o:p)

she has developed arthritis, and weepy eyes and her teeth are not the greatest, but can't do anything about them, but on most days she has more energy than me :eek:
her coat is amazing and she is now 89lbs, not to fat still feel her ribs, and her poop is solid :thumbs up and she eats like a horse!!!!

the enzymes we give/gave her is
NaturVet Enzymes and probiotics,

it enabled her to digest some of her kibble (kibble is a mix of kibble fish and bison). when she has a crisis (we grind up her food to a powder so that her body wouldn't have to work so hard and she gets mince meat, sweet patatos, a little chicken stock, and filtered water(all the time now) along with the reg I listed in nurtriants :o
this way at lest I know she is getting vitamines

now she is getting frozen strawberries as a treat, she gobbles them up, but she is only allowed one a day..
she does not get dog cookies cause she can't digest them, but she does get one people cookie every day she seems to be able to tolerate them much better

:o

Sylvie
September 28th, 2011, 03:18 PM
I knew you were joking, pbpatti.

Dog Dancer
September 28th, 2011, 03:19 PM
Breeze, Bree has always just looked so healthy to me I would never have known. Glad she seems to be doing well now, hopefully it's all under control and behind her.

I hope the enzymes that you are using will help out for Rgeurts with Nookie's issues. Every little bit of info that gets shared here helps somebody.:angel2:

breeze
September 28th, 2011, 03:23 PM
Breeze, Bree has always just looked so healthy to me I would never have known. Glad she seems to be doing well now, hopefully it's all under control and behind her.

I hope the enzymes that you are using will help out for Rgeurts with Nookie's issues. Every little bit of info that gets shared here helps somebody.:angel2:


I hope it helps rgeurts and nookie :fingerscr:goodvibes::pray:

pbpatti
September 28th, 2011, 04:27 PM
I was pretty sure that you all took it as a joke..I know Robyn did...:sorry::offtopic: a little...patti

Rgeurts
September 29th, 2011, 09:39 AM
Really....I was only joking about the Munchausen :D Robyn and her DH are great doggie people and only ever try the best they can, it's just that Nookie.....well, he's Nookie:lovestruck:.

Robyn, I was thinking...oops me bad:D, maybe Nookie is only supposed to be 80 lbs? It has been sometime since I have seen him but does he look thin? Undernourished?Skinny? patti

LoL patti, you are a funny girl :D
According to the vets, he should weight between 95-100 to be in the optimal range, so 110 was a bit overweight (he was quite chubby lol). But he does look malnourished, so I think they are right. He's 10-15 underweight right now. When he lays down you can see his pelvic bones really sticking out and when he's running/playing you can see his ribs. You can also feel his spine and count every little ridge. But he's acting fine (well... as fine as he ever is! :D).

Funny how things get twisted around. I took the Munchausen reference to be a joke for sure. I didn't realize Bree had so many issues either. What a lucky bunch of pups on this board who have parents who will move heaven and earth for them. I wish I could offer some suggestions on Nookie's weight issues, but sadly cannot. Just lots of hugs..:grouphug::grouphug:

DD, hugs are always welcome!! And thank you :) :grouphug:

Bree has been a sick pup 3 1/2-4 years out of her 5 years, I don't talk about it much :o I understand what you are all going through and my heart goes out to each and everyone of you's)

Wow... it's my heart that goes out to you!! That's a long time to have to deal with these kinds of issues. It has only been a year and a half to this point and DH and I get worn out :eek:

this is the first year last fall to this fall that things have turned around for her (knocking on my head cause well we all know it's made of wood, and that my head is stronger than wood :o:p)

LoL... nice mental image you gave me! :D
But I'm very glad that he has turned around, at least for now. Any "good" times we get with them is a blessing. I think until you have a sick baby, you take their health for granted.

she has developed arthritis, and weepy eyes and her teeth are not the greatest, but can't do anything about them, but on most days she has more energy than me :eek:
her coat is amazing and she is now 89lbs, not to fat still feel her ribs, and her poop is solid :thumbs up and she eats like a horse!!!!

the enzymes we give/gave her is
NaturVet Enzymes and probiotics,

it enabled her to digest some of her kibble (kibble is a mix of kibble fish and bison). when she has a crisis (we grind up her food to a powder so that her body wouldn't have to work so hard and she gets mince meat, sweet patatos, a little chicken stock, and filtered water(all the time now) along with the reg I listed in nurtriants :o
this way at lest I know she is getting vitamines

now she is getting frozen strawberries as a treat, she gobbles them up, but she is only allowed one a day..
she does not get dog cookies cause she can't digest them, but she does get one people cookie every day she seems to be able to tolerate them much better

:o

Nookie doesn't get cookies either unless I make them. I have been making him salmon cookies with wild pink salmon, oat flour and whole oats (both wheat free), eggs with the shells on, fresh ground organic flax and organic parsley. He LOVES them and seems to tolerate them well. As for the enzyme, I checked it out and it looks good. I'm going to talk to Dr. Marsden about it! Though I still don't know if that's the problem because his poops are great right now (except for volume!). Did Bree still have good poops when she was having digestion issues?

Rgeurts
September 29th, 2011, 09:40 AM
I was pretty sure that you all took it as a joke..I know Robyn did...:sorry::offtopic: a little...patti

LoL patti, no need for you to be sorry, I'm the one that said it! Bad taste on my part :loser:

breeze
September 29th, 2011, 10:26 AM
According to the vets, he should weight between 95-100 to be in the optimal range, so 110 was a bit overweight (he was quite chubby lol). But he does look malnourished, so I think they are right. He's 10-15 underweight right now. When he lays down you can see his pelvic bones really sticking out and when he's running/playing you can see his ribs. You can also feel his spine and count every little ridge. But he's acting fine (well... as fine as he ever is! :D).

I always said and felt that if you shaved Bree they would report me for not taking care of Bree, you could feel her ribs and count all the vertebra in her back, you could also feel her hips bones, it was very sad!!!!



Nookie doesn't get cookies either unless I make them. I have been making him salmon cookies with wild pink salmon, oat flour and whole oats (both wheat free), eggs with the shells on, fresh ground organic flax and organic parsley. He LOVES them and seems to tolerate them well. As for the enzyme, I checked it out and it looks good. I'm going to talk to Dr. Marsden about it! Though I still don't know if that's the problem because his poops are great right now (except for volume!). Did Bree still have good poops when she was having digestion issues?

sometimes, and sometimes blood, or just a mess!! we would jump for joy when her poop was solid :laughing:

Rgeurts
September 29th, 2011, 11:19 AM
sometimes, and sometimes blood, or just a mess!! we would jump for joy when her poop was solid :laughing:

LOL... I know all abut the pure joy and excitement of a good poop!! Nookies have been good for a few months now, but he does go through little "spurts" of diarrhea and soft poos.

And it's the same with Nookie. If we were to shave him, you could probably see every bone in his little body right now. You can feel (and even see) his hips bones, they really protrude. And his ribs, you can see and feel each one :(

The weird thing is when I took him in to weigh him last week, I would have sworn he gained at least a pound or 2. He wasn't looking "as" skinny, but he did actually lose another pound :shrug:

I want to be hopeful, but I don't want to be let down like last week, again. So I'll just say whatever happens, happens... and hope that the addition of the barley helped. Though I think he may not be tolerating it too well. He has had some reflux the last few days and a bit of gas. Guess we will just wait it out a few more days and if it's putting weight on him, we'll continue it, just maybe in a lower amount. If not, I'll cut it out of the diet.

breeze
September 29th, 2011, 11:46 AM
LOL... I know all abut the pure joy and excitement of a good poop!! Nookies have been good for a few months now, but he does go through little "spurts" of diarrhea and soft poos.

And it's the same with Nookie. If we were to shave him, you could probably see every bone in his little body right now. You can feel (and even see) his hips bones, they really protrude. And his ribs, you can see and feel each one :(

The weird thing is when I took him in to weigh him last week, I would have sworn he gained at least a pound or 2. He wasn't looking "as" skinny, but he did actually lose another pound :shrug:

I want to be hopeful, but I don't want to be let down like last week, again. So I'll just say whatever happens, happens... and hope that the addition of the barley helped. Though I think he may not be tolerating it too well. He has had some reflux the last few days and a bit of gas. Guess we will just wait it out a few more days and if it's putting weight on him, we'll continue it, just maybe in a lower amount. If not, I'll cut it out of the diet.

we had to stop weighing bree, I just didn't want to get upset everytime.. as long as I knew she was getting enough calories, and vitamines and she was eating,and her poops weren't bad and she had energy, that is all that mattered.. (in your case no seizures) it doesn't matter if he's under weight or a little over weight, unless it matters for the herbs and meds??
I was told sometimes when a dog has so many medical issues they don't always weight what they are suppose to weigh :o

Bree was suppose to be 100-120lbs dog lol lol lol ya right!!! :)

breeze
September 29th, 2011, 12:21 PM
by the way, we haven't seen to many pictures with your boys!! :frustrated:
isn't it about time you post some new ones?? :D:p

Dog Dancer
September 29th, 2011, 12:59 PM
Isn't it great the things that make us happy! Solid poop! Since Shadow doesn't have much bowel control lately that's a HUGE thing for us :crazy:

I can feel (and see) all of Shadow's hip bones and spine now. I hate that her bones are protruding like that, her tummy isn't skinny though :D. She loves to sleep on the bare floor at night and it has to hurt her hips. I have to resist the urge to make her move constantly, but that's where she goes right back to sooooo....

Hope all the other furries are doing better today.

Goldfields
September 29th, 2011, 07:47 PM
LoL patti, no need for you to be sorry, I'm the one that said it! Bad taste on my part :loser:

It wasn't bad taste, I just laughed out loud when I read it. :D Very funny, and I have some inkling of how you can think that way at times. When I was taking Tammy in repeatedly to get her support casts replaced I even wondered if I had a problem, :laughing: You've been through so much more with poor Nookie, Robyn, he's just a poor sick boy that needed an :angel: like you in his life. Imagine if you hadn't been there for him. :eek: Sorry he's losing weight, your talk of bones showing made me think of a Dobe I once heard about, it had Diabetes mellitus and someone even reported her to the RSPCA for neglecting the dog, when it was of course getting proper care, just very thin due to that complaint. Hope you get on top of this problem Nookie has though, as you have all his others. :)

Rgeurts
September 30th, 2011, 10:49 AM
we had to stop weighing bree, I just didn't want to get upset everytime.. as long as I knew she was getting enough calories, and vitamines and she was eating,and her poops weren't bad and she had energy, that is all that mattered.. (in your case no seizures) it doesn't matter if he's under weight or a little over weight, unless it matters for the herbs and meds??
I was told sometimes when a dog has so many medical issues they don't always weight what they are suppose to weigh
Bree was suppose to be 100-120lbs dog lol lol lol ya right!!! :)

Dr. Marsden wants us to bring him in once a week to make sure he isn't losing at a faster rate. His herbs aren't weight related so much as his thyroid med. We have to be careful that he doesn't get too much or he can become hyperthyroid.
I would have thought Bree weighed around 100lbs, at least!! She looks so big, furry and just gorgeous!! I really am sorry you have had so many issues with her too. It's heart breaking to watch them going through the bad "spells", but worth it when they turn that corner :cloud9:

Isn't it great the things that make us happy! Solid poop! Since Shadow doesn't have much bowel control lately that's a HUGE thing for us :crazy:

I can feel (and see) all of Shadow's hip bones and spine now. I hate that her bones are protruding like that, her tummy isn't skinny though. She loves to sleep on the bare floor at night and it has to hurt her hips. I have to resist the urge to make her move constantly, but that's where she goes right back to sooooo....

Hope all the other furries are doing better today.

DD, I feel for you. Both Thorin and Nookie have had a few accidents this last week. And since they both sleep in our bedroom so we can hear if anything is wrong, that's where the messes are made. Unfortunately, when they have their accidents, it's never a solid poop lol :yuck:
I think Thorin is having a bout of colitis (I'm praying it isn't pancreatitis) and left a trail all across the room last night, and Nookie the same thing a couple of nights ago. One of them puked at around 3 this morning. I think it was Nookie because it looked like there was barley in it, so I think we will have to stop the barley and maybe try quinoa (as pbpatti suggested). We will have to rip out all the carpeting, which is ok because I hate carpet anyway. It just makes for a rude awakening very tiring when it's 3 nights in one week lol
We are also heading to the vet today with Thorin. I found a couple of lumps on him last night :(
One is right between his should blades and the other is on the back of his neck. I called and they said to bring him in for needle aspirations right away. I'm praying they are benign :pray:

As for poor Shadow, I think the same when Nookie lays on the hardwood or tile. It doesn't look like it could possibly be comfy, yet he insists on sleeping there :shrug:

It wasn't bad taste, I just laughed out loud when I read it. :D Very funny, and I have some inkling of how you can think that way at times. When I was taking Tammy in repeatedly to get her support casts replaced I even wondered if I had a problem, :laughing: You've been through so much more with poor Nookie, Robyn, he's just a poor sick boy that needed an :angel: like you in his life. Imagine if you hadn't been there for him. :eek: Sorry he's losing weight, your talk of bones showing made me think of a Dobe I once heard about, it had Diabetes mellitus and someone even reported her to the RSPCA for neglecting the dog, when it was of course getting proper care, just very thin due to that complaint. Hope you get on top of this problem Nookie has though, as you have all his others.

I'm glad you saw the humor in it, GF! Anyone who knows hubby and I would know differently :D
We just seem to have really bad luck :yell:
Well, or good luck... depending on how you look at it! We could have lost them both long ago, but we didn't. So I think I would say we were actually fortunate :D

Though I'm really becoming worried about Thorin. He's had a nasty bout of colitis the last couple of days and now I found the 2 lumps on his back and neck. He is still very bright, alert and happy and has a huge appetite, so who knows. As for Nookie, I'm going to insist on another TLI for the EPI if he is still losing. But you mentioned Diabetes Mellitus. I was actually reading a bit about that yesterday and was thinking it may not hurt to have him checked. He has everything else under the sun... why not that too? :rolleyes:
I really hope not, but a lot of the symptoms fit.


Well, we're off to get Nookie weighed and Thorin biopsied, then back to meet here at 1 with the insurance adjuster and contractor. It's gonna be one of those days! Wish us luck. And if any of you are the :pray:'ing type, that's always appreciated. Thanks to you all for the support :grouphug: :grouphug:

breeze
September 30th, 2011, 11:13 AM
:goodvibes::goodvibes:

and

:pray::pray:

and

:fingerscr:fingerscr

and

:grouphug::grouphug:

Goldfields
September 30th, 2011, 11:28 AM
Ditto what Breeze said. :)

hazelrunpack
September 30th, 2011, 12:46 PM
Triple that! :D

:fingerscr that Thorin's lumps are just fatty tumors!! :goodvibes:

Dog Dancer
September 30th, 2011, 02:58 PM
I guess that makes mine Quadruple that! Prayers that all goes well at the vet today Robyn. Thinking of you and the pups.

I hear you about the bedroom issues. My two sleep in our room too. Shadow has had a few messy mistakes in the last while, but like I said fortunately right now, not messy.

Some nights she's up and down every ten minutes, and of course I hear her moving around and have to check to make sure she's okay. The last couple nights she has been sleeping more on the floor and not moving as much, and then I have to check she's okay there because I'm worried that she's not moving around... :wall: I guess it's no wonder I'm tired all the time, you must be also, it's so disruptive to our sleep when we're constantly worried and watching them. But what else can you do? Is your hubs like mine Robyn? He doesn't wake up even when she had the messy runs in the bedroom. Stunk to high heaven, he just snored through it all while I cleaned and mopped and sprayed...:rolleyes:

Thinking of you and hoping for a good update. :grouphug::grouphug:

Winston
September 30th, 2011, 09:06 PM
:fingerscr:fingerscr:grouphug:

Rgeurts
September 30th, 2011, 10:27 PM
I guess that makes mine Quadruple that! Prayers that all goes well at the vet today Robyn. Thinking of you and the pups.

I hear you about the bedroom issues. My two sleep in our room too. Shadow has had a few messy mistakes in the last while, but like I said fortunately right now, not messy.

Some nights she's up and down every ten minutes, and of course I hear her moving around and have to check to make sure she's okay. The last couple nights she has been sleeping more on the floor and not moving as much, and then I have to check she's okay there because I'm worried that she's not moving around... :wall: I guess it's no wonder I'm tired all the time, you must be also, it's so disruptive to our sleep when we're constantly worried and watching them. But what else can you do? Is your hubs like mine Robyn? He doesn't wake up even when she had the messy runs in the bedroom. Stunk to high heaven, he just snored through it all while I cleaned and mopped and sprayed...:rolleyes:

Thinking of you and hoping for a good update. :grouphug::grouphug:

It's the same in our house. Both have been very restless the last few nights, so every little move they make, I'm up checking. Then when I don't hear them, I, like you, am checking to make sure they're ok lol. Nookie rarely ever lets us sleep past 6-6:30 on the weekends. So on the rare occasion he does sleep in a little, I wake up in a panic and make hubby check :eek:

Shaun is wonderful when it comes to the boys. He and I both clean the messes. If he is off the next day, he does it. If I'm off, I do it. If we both work, it's whoever can stand the smell the longest that gets to stay in bed :laughing:


Nookies visit was good. He gained a pound and a half! So they're thinking he just needs more carbs in his diet.

Thorins visit did not go so well :(
She thought at first that one was just a fatty tumor and the other just a clogged/infected follicle. She did a fine needle aspiration and said she was very surprised. Instead of seeing that fat, dead cells and inflammation, she saw a lot of live, round and very active cells in both lumps. She that is typically a very good indication of cancer. She said it's possible that they are mast cell tumors, but also could be the dessimated form of the cancer we were doing the chemo for (histiocytic sarcoma). If that's what it is, we don't have long with him. But I'm trying to remain optimistic. He is going in for surgery Monday morning to have them both removed and biopsied. So it's just a waiting game for now. :pray:

Dog Dancer
September 30th, 2011, 11:01 PM
Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear this. :( I'm glad they're getting him in quickly though. I'm at a loss for words right now. Other than bad ones... You are all in my thoughts and prayers for the best possible outcome on Monday.

Of course it's great that Nookie gained weight! Way to go Nookie Monster! :crazy:

I'm fortunate that my two will let me sleep in on weekends, however, that now entails taking them for a walk at 6 or so and then going back to bed. If Shadow hasn't had a poop on the floor by then I'm afraid to wait much longer. She doesn't like going in the yard, she likes going "outside" the yard for his business - how lucky am I?? She grew up in a townhouse where we always had to go walk, so it's just her habit.

Rgeurts
October 1st, 2011, 01:40 PM
Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear this. :( I'm glad they're getting him in quickly though. I'm at a loss for words right now. Other than bad ones... You are all in my thoughts and prayers for the best possible outcome on Monday.

Thank you, DD :grouphug:
Our vets are wonderful. Even if they're booked solid, they make time for both Thorin and Nookie. I noticed the lumps late Thursday night and called first thing yesterday morning. She said at first they were booked until next week and asked what was wrong. As soon as I told her, she made me an appt. and said to bring him in right away.


Of course it's great that Nookie gained weight! Way to go Nookie Monster! :crazy:

I'm so happy that he gained this time! We are going to replace the barley with brown rice and see if he tolerates that better, and if it will give him enough carbs to put the weight on like the barley has. Here's hoping :)

I'm fortunate that my two will let me sleep in on weekends, however, that now entails taking them for a walk at 6 or so and then going back to bed. If Shadow hasn't had a poop on the floor by then I'm afraid to wait much longer. She doesn't like going in the yard, she likes going "outside" the yard for his business - how lucky am I?? She grew up in a townhouse where we always had to go walk, so it's just her habit.

That sounds just like Thorin!! He doesn't like to poop in "his" yard lol. He's also very private and has to lift his leg and poop "on" something. He's a little confused :laughing:
The best was a pine tree, and the needles must have poked him in a very "delicate" area because he gave a bit of a yelp, tucked his tail and ran from the tree! Shaun and I both were in stitches... poor boy! He's never lifted his leg on another pine. :)

I'm glad they let you sleep in! I really wish Nookie would let us, even 1 day a week! I don't know where Nookie picked this up, but he has a very "unique" way of making me get up. He only started this a few weeks ago... I'm a side sleeper. He will sit beside the bed and cry until I open my eyes and look at him. If I ignore him, he will paw at the mattress. If I continue to ignore him he will jump on the bed and lay right on top of me!! He will lay with his chest up by my shoulders, his tummy on mine and just completely drape himself on me, full weight (it's these times I'm thinking it's a good thing he's not 110 lbs anymore!). If I continue to ignore him, he paws at my head until I get up :eek: :eek: :laughing:
He's definitely a :crazy: pup.
Shaun just laughs and say's "Better you than me" :frustrated:
I don't know why he doesn't do it to Shaun lol

Dog Dancer
October 1st, 2011, 04:10 PM
Shaun is probably better at ignoring him than you and he knows it! When Shadow wants to wake me up she just stands there and stares at me. Like that's really helpful! Oddly it seems to work though - go figure.

I would imagine with the amount of business you give you vet they should make room for you. My mechanic is like that with us - tells us we're his best customers:frustrated: Now that I think of it though, maybe if he was a better mechanic we wouldn't be such regulars... hmmm No he's good, we just have old cars.

Poor Thorin getting poked where it hurts. Shadow oddly used to really like to poop on bushes too. Never understood that one either. She's back right up to one and hit the branches. And she pee's like a boy, always has. Not lately since her legs aren't strong enough now, but people used to laugh at us all the time. She's used to be a star leg lifter!

I hope the brown rice works for Nookie. You guys are in my thoughts and prayers. No wonder I don't sleep anymore, too busy praying for everybody and their furries :D It's worth it.

Goldfields
October 2nd, 2011, 01:25 AM
Robyn, Susie had a mast cell tumour removed, along with a mammary tumour, and that gave her YEARS extra, so good luck with Thorin. Your talk of how Nookie wakes you, and lies on you, is why I decided not to let Jarrah have her freedom at night, I don't want to be woken like that. LOL. So, she has a big square crate, covered at night so it's like a den and I never hear a sound out of her. Perkins has an even bigger pen(5'4" square) and his big bed plus two thick sheep fleeces(on top of 3 layers of newspapers) makes it pretty comfortable for the old bones. He loves plucking wool out of his fleeces. (Grrrr!)

MaxaLisa
October 2nd, 2011, 03:01 AM
I....
Thorins visit did not go so well :(
She thought at first that one was just a fatty tumor and the other just a clogged/infected follicle. She did a fine needle aspiration and said she was very surprised. Instead of seeing that fat, dead cells and inflammation, she saw a lot of live, round and very active cells in both lumps. She that is typically a very good indication of cancer. She said it's possible that they are mast cell tumors, but also could be the dessimated form of the cancer we were doing the chemo for (histiocytic sarcoma). If that's what it is, we don't have long with him. But I'm trying to remain optimistic. He is going in for surgery Monday morning to have them both removed and biopsied. So it's just a waiting game for now. :pray:

Wishing for the best, and that this is a mast cell tumor that they get with clean margins, and it has a low mitotic figure :fingerscr

Rgeurts
October 2nd, 2011, 12:01 PM
Shaun is probably better at ignoring him than you and he knows it! When Shadow wants to wake me up she just stands there and stares at me. Like that's really helpful! Oddly it seems to work though - go figure.

Usually, Nookie just staring at me wakes me up, but then I roll over and try to ignore him. Doesn't work for long though lol

Poor Thorin getting poked where it hurts. Shadow oddly used to really like to poop on bushes too. Never understood that one either. She's back right up to one and hit the branches. And she pee's like a boy, always has. Not lately since her legs aren't strong enough now, but people used to laugh at us all the time. She's used to be a star leg lifter!

Poor old girl. She sounds so much like Thorin. He won't poo unless he has something to poo "on". I was walking with a friend of mine once, and I'm so used to him doing that, that I don't even pay attention anymore. He stopped, backed up against a light post, lifted his leg and did his thing right on the pole! She about died laughing :D
He's given us many laughs :cloud9: :lovestruck:

I hope the brown rice works for Nookie. You guys are in my thoughts and prayers. No wonder I don't sleep anymore, too busy praying for everybody and their furries :D It's worth it.

LOL, DD, I know what you mean!! And from our end, it's most appreciated :grouphug:

Robyn, Susie had a mast cell tumour removed, along with a mammary tumour, and that gave her YEARS extra, so good luck with Thorin. Your talk of how Nookie wakes you, and lies on you, is why I decided not to let Jarrah have her freedom at night, I don't want to be woken like that. LOL. So, she has a big square crate, covered at night so it's like a den and I never hear a sound out of her. Perkins has an even bigger pen(5'4" square) and his big bed plus two thick sheep fleeces(on top of 3 layers of newspapers) makes it pretty comfortable for the old bones. He loves plucking wool out of his fleeces. (Grrrr!)

GF, I'm praying they are mast cell tumors and not histiocytic sarcoma.
As for the crates, Nookie was crate trained at one point, but then decided he didn't like it. He would stress himself out so bad that he would have a seizure, so both our vets said no more crates for him.
That's one reason we left the last daycare. They had strict instructions not to crate him, but they did and he had a seizure. So we don't have a lot of options. Even though I get very tired, and even a little irritated some days, I can't be mad at him. He makes us laugh :)

Wishing for the best, and that this is a mast cell tumor that they get with clean margins, and it has a low mitotic figure :fingerscr

Thank you, MaxaLisa. That's what we're hoping and praying for :pray: :)

breeze
October 2nd, 2011, 02:11 PM
just a thought Rgeurts what about trying to train him to go on the puppy pee pads
it's not the greatest solution but maybe help with the clean up?? He's still young so maybe it could be a good thing??

:2cents:

Rgeurts
October 2nd, 2011, 03:08 PM
just a thought Rgeurts what about trying to train him to go on the puppy pee pads
it's not the greatest solution but maybe help with the clean up?? He's still young so maybe it could be a good thing??

:2cents:

Thank you Breeze :)
He's potty trained, he just has no "holding" power when he has diarrhea, he has a loose sphincter (it never fully developed). It hasn't been too bad the last few months, until he got the parasites a couple of months ago. Since then it's been kinda on and off. We did consider getting a few pee pads just for those occasions, but the last time we tried to use them, he ate one :eek:
His Pica isn't as bad as it was when he was a pup, but he still has it. We can't even put a mat under his water dish. We had a rubber one a few months ago and he ate a chunk of it so we tried one of the braided rugs and he ate the tassles off it :eek: :yell:
The stained carpets give me a reason to get rid of them and put down some cork or wood. We just have to wait until the vet bills ease up a bit. Not sure
how much Thorins surgery will be tomorrow, but nothing related to our 2 is ever "cheap" lol.

breeze
October 2nd, 2011, 03:16 PM
Thank you Breeze :)
the last time we tried to use them, he ate one :eek:

oops!!!!:o

The stained carpets give me a reason to get rid of them and put down some cork or wood. We just have to wait until the vet bills ease up a bit. Not sure
how much Thorins surgery will be tomorrow, but nothing related to our 2 is ever "cheap" lol.

we have no carpets any more either cause of our first dog :o just some throws here and there, we want new flooring but well with 2 beasts and a hubby why bother :laughing::laughing:= wet/muddy/snowy paws same with shoes or boots :laughing::laughing:

good luck tomorrow with Thorin's surgery and the after care (which in my eyes is worst than the surgery) :fingerscr:goodvibes::goodvibes:

Rgeurts
October 2nd, 2011, 03:27 PM
we have no carpets any more either cause of our first dog :o just some throws here and there, we want new flooring but well with 2 beasts and a hubby why bother :laughing::laughing:= wet/muddy/snowy paws same with shoes or boots :laughing::laughing:

LoL, I can relate!! We will probably rip the carpets out and use some area rugs until we can afford to put some nice flooring in. We want to sell as soon as the values go back up a bit!

good luck tomorrow with Thorin's surgery and the after care (which in my eyes is worst than the surgery) :fingerscr:goodvibes::goodvibes:

Thanks! It shouldn't be too bad. The vet said they're just under the skin and neither feel like they're "deeply" rooted. The only thing I'm really worried about is putting him under. That always scares me :(

Rgeurts
October 2nd, 2011, 06:25 PM
Breeze, I posted a few recent piccies :)
They both look great. Nookie is really skinny in a couple of them, but he's still looking healthy overall! :lovestruck: :cloud9:

hazelrunpack
October 2nd, 2011, 06:44 PM
Sending good luck for Thorin's surgery tomorrow, Robyn! :goodvibes:

Rgeurts
October 2nd, 2011, 06:47 PM
Sending good luck for Thorin's surgery tomorrow, Robyn! :goodvibes:

Thank you, Hazel!! :grouphug:

breeze
October 2nd, 2011, 06:57 PM
Breeze, I posted a few recent piccies :)
They both look great. Nookie is really skinny in a couple of them, but he's still looking healthy overall! :lovestruck: :cloud9:

where???

breeze
October 2nd, 2011, 07:00 PM
found them :p:D:D:thumbs up

breeze
October 3rd, 2011, 09:17 AM
:goodvibes::goodvibes:

:fingerscr:fingerscr

:grouphug::grouphug:

for you and Thorin today

Dog Dancer
October 3rd, 2011, 10:26 AM
Thorin and you are in my prayers today. :pray: :grouphug:

Rgeurts
October 3rd, 2011, 01:44 PM
Thanks all :grouphug:
Thorin is in surgery now. I hate waiting. I hope we're doing the right thing by letting them put him under :pray:

Dog Dancer
October 3rd, 2011, 01:48 PM
Robyn that's always one of the hardest questions with the older pups isn't it. I'm sure he'll be fine, try to stay positive. :grouphug:

hazelrunpack
October 3rd, 2011, 01:54 PM
There are a lot of goodvibes, healing wishes and positive energy out there for your boy, Rgeurts. Hang in there :grouphug:

breeze
October 3rd, 2011, 02:04 PM
I hope we're doing the right thing by letting them put him under :pray:

don't go doubting yourself!! you do what you must and what feels right for Throin and you both.

:goodvibes:

soon he will be out of surgery, keep positive:thumbs up

Rgeurts
October 3rd, 2011, 05:03 PM
Thank you all so much!! Thorin is out of surgery and in recovery. We will be picking up between 5 and 5:30 :cloud9::lovestruck:

Winston
October 3rd, 2011, 06:11 PM
:fingerscr:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Goldfields
October 3rd, 2011, 06:18 PM
That's good news, yay!!

hazelrunpack
October 3rd, 2011, 07:33 PM
:goodvibes: Now for good pathology results!! :fingerscr

Dog Dancer
October 3rd, 2011, 10:18 PM
Yay yay yay yay yay :crazy: So good to hear he's doing fine. :pray: for good path results also now. :grouphug: Guess it will be another sleepless night for you huh Robyn....

Rgeurts
October 3rd, 2011, 10:21 PM
Yay yay yay yay yay :crazy: So good to hear he's doing fine. :pray: for good path results also now. :grouphug: Guess it will be another sleepless night for you huh Robyn....

MIL actually has tomorrow off, so she has him in her room tonight. Shaun is going to take him for his potties, then back up to her room. So now that he's home, and doing ok, I think I'll get a few hours sleep :)

Dog Dancer
October 4th, 2011, 10:20 AM
I sure hope you all had a good night last night and the Thorin is doing well today, and that Nookie is too. Thinking of you all. Enjoy the day!

Rgeurts
October 4th, 2011, 03:40 PM
Thank you, DD!! You are such a sweetheart :grouphug:
Nookie had to go to daycare today so Thorin could have a restful day. MIL says he's doing very well. He's back to himself, but a bit stiff. They actually found a 3rd lump on the back of his head, so he had 3 removed in all. We should have the histopath back in a week. I hate waiting :yell:

Dog Dancer
October 5th, 2011, 01:51 PM
Robyn, hope the boys are well today. Thinking of you.

renegaderuby
October 5th, 2011, 07:34 PM
Waiting stinks! Hope everything turns out fantastic!

MaxaLisa
October 6th, 2011, 03:21 AM
Sure am hoping that the lab report comes back as something completely benign!