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Maybe I should just talk to a brick wall next time (rescue related!)

kathryn
April 13th, 2011, 10:54 AM
Okay.................... someone PLEASE make sense of this for me.. I'm having a conversation with someone right now who transports dogs from southern states like Georgia up here and I asked for help placing dogs that are already being KILLED in NJ/PA shelters and she's like completely in denial that it happens although right now all the shelters around me are jam packed and are going to start PTS'ing adoptable dogs... she messaged me on FB


Karen April 13 at 11:28am Report
Hi Kathryn, Where hav you been? Don't see you much anymore on here? Do you still work with Animal Welfare and Animal Orphange? Weren't you doing tons of volunteering there? How have you been? Whaere do you need dogs transported to? I can put a volunteer list together with pp who would be willing to help. Let me know,Thanks,Kar

Karen April 13 at 11:33am Report
Oh, they have no place to go, so you want me to find receving rescues? Not sure what you are asking of me? I know that when we bring dogs up here, it is a layover for the majority then a transporter meets us from Canada and takes there. Canada as well as many of these states have bans on pitbulls and they will not take any. Unfortunately the majority of the dogs I see in the Philly shelter and Camden County shelters are pitties. If you can send me info on the dogs/puppies that have no pit in them, i could possibly help. Thanks,Kar

Kathryn April 13 at 11:37am
I'm not at AWA anymore since they had a change of management that really turned the place into a madhouse.. I don't know where we can transport the dogs too, that's the problem.. I wish we could just adopt them out in the area, but adoptions are slow. I've been trying to help out by doing pictures for some of the local shelters but I've been pretty sick recently and haven't had as much of a chance.. there are alot of adoptable dogs being put on death row in the area, especially over in Philly at ACCT/PSPCA.. I know that the Camden County Animal Shelter is BEYOND capacity yet again.. Almost Home Animal Shelter in Pennsauken is probably overfilled as well and the director there is such a wonderful lady that I wish someone could help the shelter out (it's a small shelter in an old warehouse). Gloucester County Animal Shelter in Clayton is pretty full too, I go down there when I can to do pictures. They get a good mix of little dogs and big dogs but adoptions are still slow so they still have to do euth's. Pretty much everywhere in the area is packed right now.. I can't even talk about the cats though because that is just another mess in its self. GCAS lost the adoption kennels they had at the Petsmart Deptford store that closed down so they did ALOT of adoptions through there so it's really been hard for them. People often forget that dogs are still dying in NJ/PA and we may not be as bad as the south but it just doesn't make sense to me to bring more dogs up at this point when with the economy and adoptions being sooo bad that bringing a GA dog up = Killing an NJ dog at this point. I still donate and help promote spay/neuter down south and that seems to be the best way to help stop the problem before it even starts.

Take care.. hope you don't think I am just trying to bash you or anyone, but unless you are seeing first hand how REALLY REALLY bad it is in shelters up here now with the economy crashing and people are just ditching their animals left and right to save their own asses, it's been really bad and alot of people I know that work in shelters are looking for a career change at this point because they can't take killing all the adoptable animals.

Kathryn April 13 at 11:43am
wait, you aren't actually sending dogs to Canada right? They still gas dogs up there too.. I know alot of people that do rescue up in Canada (some are on my friends list) and they are having a hard enough time up there trying to ban gas chambers and fix their shelters... alot of shelters up there have been busted for animal cruelty and euthanizing animals like crazy. I hope I just misread your response.

Karen April 13 at 11:48am Report
theres a very reputable foster rescue up there that we deal with. we don't just send hap hazordouly to canada shelters. they only go into foster homes through a very reputable rescue group.

Kathryn April 13 at 11:50am
Okay, but then my question would be what about the dogs already dying in those shelters in Canada? If dogs from not just another state but another country are being put into foster homes in Canada, who is saving the dogs that are being tortured and gassed in Canadian shelters? It just doesn't make any sense to me. I see everyday how my friends up there struggle to find homes for their foster dogs and cats... the last thing I'd want to do is add to their problems.



:shrug: :wall: Does this make sense to anyone??

kathryn
April 13th, 2011, 10:58 AM
Karen April 13 at 11:57am Report
I dont know Kathryn, I can't speak for Canada or the rescue group that commits to dogs. I help out Jersey dogs all the time. I spend money on rehoming or vetting to adopt as well as cats in my own area. I travel to GA because I work with a town that shoots their animals with no animal control. I follow the guidelines and examples of Petsmart Rescue Waggin, The Humane of Atlantic County, The Animal Orphanage, The AWA and many other receiving facilities who take dogs in from out of state. All those facilities take in out of state dogs. Again, the adopters I have found through all of this want cute, adoptable puppies that have NO pit in them at all. We simply do NOT have them in our shelters. My question to you would be-If a family wanted to adopt an infant, to raise as their own from birth and we had none in the state of NJ, would I then be opposed to that same family being able to adopt an infant that was born in another state? No i would not. Of course I would offer the adoptables in my area first but if a family didnt want a toddler or young child I could not tell them to only adopt from our state. A saved life is a saved life.




^her response

BenMax
April 13th, 2011, 11:34 AM
It's hard to follow without your response. However I totally understand and agree what she is saying about Canada shelters. She is absolutely right...why would they send to shelters in Canada if infact we are busting at the seams and euthanizing. This is very true.

Rescues however are taking in from the US however I wonder why really as there is such a requirement to take from our own shelters ...in our own country.

kathryn
April 13th, 2011, 11:41 AM
It's hard to follow without your response. However I totally understand and agree what she is saying about Canada shelters. She is absolutely right...why would they send to shelters in Canada if infact we are busting at the seams and euthanizing. This is very true.

Rescues however are taking in from the US however I wonder why really as there is such a requirement to take from our own shelters ...in our own country.

I was pointing out to her that it made no sense to bring dogs from the south US to Canada, she didn't want to hear it.. after I said why are you sending them up to Canada she basically said "that's not my problem".

Here is what I said after her last response


Kathryn Cataldo April 13 at 12:13pm
I mean, I understand what you are saying but at the same time just going "i don't know" like you haven't thought about the suffering of dogs in the places where you are sending dogs YOU rescue kinds of concerns me.. I just don't like that people are so quick to forget that pits are dogs too. And while the majority of dogs that are taken in may be pits, we also get our fair share of small dogs and "cute" dogs up here... I have seen plenty of poodles, chihuahua's and other dogs come through here too. I understand that yes it does help to bring up some adoptable puppies because they are in a higher demand for perfectly good adoptable homes, but what about this dog

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/208415_1961024831182_1409653618_2299206_3909193_n. jpg

I could easily go into any animal control shelter in the tri state area and find a dog that looks like that. I understand you want to help everyone, but if you are saying that you can't or don't want to help the pits up here find homes, why are you bringing dogs that look like pit mixes up from the south? Because I've seen you do it before for pit/pit mixes... why are the ones from 800 miles away more deserving of a life than the ones already sitting in shelters up here? Basically you are willing to turn a blind eye on the suffering of the dogs in NJ/PA shelters because they are just pit bulls and no one wants them so why bother trying to do anything to help them? Just put those down to make way for the "cuter" dogs.

I don't see how sending them to Canada helps either.. again I'm really not trying to attack you or bash your cause or anything and I hope you can understand that, but dogs are dying EVERYWHERE and okay adoptable puppies go fast up here but if you are saving a life saved is a life saved, why are the pits up here exempt from it?

I just am friends with a fair amount of people up in Canada and see the stuff they post all the time.. some of the stuff that happens up there can be worse than the stuff that happens in the south.

And I understand wanting to help the dogs being shot, but if you constantly clean up others messes how are they going to learn to take care of things themselves? Take Winging Cat Rescue for example, they really NEVER transport out of the area where the cats and kittens are rescued but look at the HUGE impact they have made by putting in new policies and getting laws passed and whatnot.

I hope you are able to see what I am talking about and not think I'm just trying to pick a fight with you because I'm absolutely not.. but this is just a time where I think people in rescue need to stop and think about how their actions are impacting others.. you may be saving lives but at the cost of damning other lives.. it just doesn't really make sense.

BenMax
April 13th, 2011, 11:43 AM
Got it Kathryn.:thumbs up So you are the one warning about the shelters in Canada. Sorry - totally missed that and YOU are absolutely right! Good job.

kathryn
April 13th, 2011, 11:46 AM
Got it Kathryn.:thumbs up

Whew okay I was hoping I was making sense. Like really??? Someone is taking a dog from the backwoods of Georgia and shipping it all the way up to Canada??? :confused: Like, why can we not just help the dog find a home where it already is??

And that is one of the problems I have with these transport people is that their motto is practically "Pits don't Matter". They are willing to let the pit bulls in the shelters near us DIE just so they can bring up their fluffy cute widdle dogs... :wall:

Shaykeija
April 13th, 2011, 11:56 AM
I find the widdle fluffy comment a little insulting...since I rescue these kind of dogs....

kathryn
April 13th, 2011, 12:15 PM
I find the widdle fluffy comment a little insulting...since I rescue these kind of dogs....

I'm not insulting anyone who rescues these kinds of dogs, what I am saying is where I am in NJ most of the dogs brought into shelters are pits, and rescues don't want to deal with them so they will gladly have the pits put to sleep in order to bring "cute" dogs up from places 1,000 miles away.

Anyways, here is the response I got from her

Karen April 13 at 12:48pm Report
First of all Kathryn -I simply transported this dog to a foster, that is IT! I was asked by a rescue group in GA if I would simply take this dog from point A to Point B. It amazes me that you have seen me bring pits up before. How dare you say I am turning a blind eye to dogs in my own area! You don't know me. You don't know what groups I have hooked up with Camden Couinty and sponsorship sent to them. I won't justify my rescue work to you. Are you this criticizing to all the shelters in YOUR area that take in out of state dogs? Do you state your opinions to all them as well? Do you tell them they are turnig a blind eye to NJ/PA dogs? I had NOTHING to do with this pitbull only was asked to give it a ride! Now, I offered my help to you with transport which is what you asked me to and I responded immediately! I will not go back and forth with you. Either you want my help transporting or not! Done! I don't troll your page and see what you are up to or what youv'e been doing to then use againest you, please don't do it with me.

cell
April 13th, 2011, 04:20 PM
Sometimes we can not convince people what they want. If someone in Canada wants a type of dog and there is none in the area, but they can be transported one from elsewhere through rescue/shelter connections then it is still a dog saved.
Some areas simply have more of a certain type of dog then others. California is overrun in chihuahuas because of the purse dog craze yet in Canada they are rare to end up in rescue.
If someone wants a certain dog and it is not in a local rescue they have 2 options, find one on kijiji or find one through rescue elsewhere. Someone on another forum I frequent got a specific dog sent to her from the states, pre-adopted. She was not actively looking for a dog but this was the exact dog she liked and could help (deaf and partially blind) she took it, when the dog could have taken months to be adopted in it's location.

A dead dog is a dead dog no matter what it looks like, I doubt these dogs are being taken and put into a Canadian pound, they are more then likely going to a rescue connection or foster and are out of the public system. I have never heard of dogs being transported from one shelter to another to face the same risks as other dogs in the system unless it is a emergency support measure. The resource input is too high to run a chance the animal gets euthanized.

chico2
April 13th, 2011, 04:29 PM
Kathryn,this is:offtopic:but yesterday and several other times,I watched "Last Chance Highway",I believe the woman in charge is in Tennessee.
She is a rescuer,pics up abandoned stray dogs and others,has them s/n and looked after if sick,she's an amazing lady as are all the people involved with her,maybe you've heard of her?
These dogs,in the hundreds,are transported up north,in a huge trailer to new owners all over the States.
The dogs are adopted out through Pet-Finder,yes,even Pit-Bulls:thumbs up

kathryn
April 13th, 2011, 04:46 PM
Yeah I mean I understand what you both are saying, but this isn't the situation with what this particular lady is doing. She just takes dogs and sometimes cats randomly out of shelters in the south and transports them to this area and beyond and will adopt them out to Joe Schmyo with no background checking what so ever.

She doesn't even check in to make sure the dogs get spayed/neutered by the receiving rescue/adopter either AND she charges a HUGE adoption fee for the dogs.. sometimes up to $300 to cover the "costs"... but yet they are lucky to get their basic medical care of just a distemper vaccine.. soo where does all the money from the adoptions go?? Who knows!!

And when she transports the dogs up here, it's not like a specific dog for specific people like you are saying which I totally support that, it's just random dogs brought up and given to whoever asks to take them first... and quite often I see the dogs dumped into the shelters I work with because the novelty wears off.

It's just.. I don't understand what the point is of transferring a random assortment of dogs to NJ alllllll the time on a regular basis when it's not like people are like OH look that is the specific breed I have been looking for please transport it to me as I can not find one in my area! It's just.... random dogs being dumped on to random people and the dogs ending up in our already over crowded shelters where we end up having to kill them sometimes anyways.....

make sense to anyone what I am trying to explain ?

fleolicious
April 14th, 2011, 03:23 PM
Perfect sense, Kathryn... and I can't wrap my mind around it either.
Unless a specific dog goes to a specific owner who specifically requested it after he couldn't find one locally, then yes, I'm all for rescue trade... but if it's just a matter of getting a dog from one rescue to another, and possibly to the harm of local animals, then I can't see any sense in it.

However, this part is particularly confusing:

She just takes dogs and sometimes cats randomly out of shelters in the south and transports them to this area and beyond and will adopt them out to Joe Schmyo with no background checking what so ever.

Who releases the animals to her, and on what grounds? I mean, I understand that shelters are overcrowded and all, but if I walked into a random shelter tomorrow and said "Hi, I'll be taking five of your dogs to be possibly adopted by someone up north; I can't really give you any details at this point but I'm sure you understand", I hope I would be given a nice warm kick in the butt. No?

kathryn
April 14th, 2011, 04:18 PM
Who releases the animals to her, and on what grounds? I mean, I understand that shelters are overcrowded and all, but if I walked into a random shelter tomorrow and said "Hi, I'll be taking five of your dogs to be possibly adopted by someone up north; I can't really give you any details at this point but I'm sure you understand", I hope I would be given a nice warm kick in the butt. No?


I'm not sure how the heck she is getting away with it either. She has NO rescue license or 501c3. I *think* she might be having licensed rescues in the states (usually Georgia) pull them and then they turn them over to her.. okay for instance, I helped her out with a project back a few years ago... she was doing a presentation to grade school kids on saving dogs and puppies and adoption and whatnot and somehow she talked me into taking home 2 puppies that she brought up from the south to "foster".

Okay, for one, I was I think 16 or 17 at the time. I think I would have had to be 17 because I remember driving on me own. She just sent the dogs home with me, with noooo paperwork and when I tried to give them back it was a whole freaking issue.. she couldn't take them back and my mom was freaking out because what was supposed to me just "babysitting" them for a night or two until they were transferred to a rescue ended up being them with me for atleast a week and she never got back to me and I was left with these 2 puppies, one with MAJOR behavior problems that almost bit me a few times... no medical records like she had promised and I ended up having to talk the shelter I was volunteering at to take them in :frustrated:

THAT is how she functions... no organization, no paperwork.. crossing state AND international lines with dogs with no proper records... and you know what, if she keeps passing out unaltered dogs in NJ I WILL report her once the new mandatory spay/neuter law goes into effect :thumbs up

LavenderRott
April 14th, 2011, 04:37 PM
If she is crossing State lines and International lines with no vet paperwork - I would report her NOW!

I can't begin to tell you how many stories I have heard from different people in rescue about these Southern dogs being transported north and bringing with them some pretty scary stuff. Just last summer, my Mom agreed to foster 3 puppies for a rescue group that had these dogs transported from "down south" somewhere. The third day they were in her home, the first one got sick. A trip to the vet showed that it had Parvo and my mom's 4 dogs and both of mine were exposed!

I find it difficult to believe, with the economy what it is right now, that dogs need to be imported from anywhere to "fill a need" someplace else.

kathryn
April 14th, 2011, 04:42 PM
If she is crossing State lines and International lines with no vet paperwork - I would report her NOW!

I can't begin to tell you how many stories I have heard from different people in rescue about these Southern dogs being transported north and bringing with them some pretty scary stuff. Just last summer, my Mom agreed to foster 3 puppies for a rescue group that had these dogs transported from "down south" somewhere. The third day they were in her home, the first one got sick. A trip to the vet showed that it had Parvo and my mom's 4 dogs and both of mine were exposed!

I find it difficult to believe, with the economy what it is right now, that dogs need to be imported from anywhere to "fill a need" someplace else.

Exactly.. can't even tell you how many times these dogs that are brought up here break with parvo or distemper because the groups don't bother to put any kind of protocol in place and don't bother to tell you anything about the risks.. I used to actually help try to get puppies up here because at one point adoptions were pretty good where I am and there was somewhat of a demand, but now we are lucky if we can adopt out our own dogs even if they are "cute and cuddly"... because we are so close to Lancaster which is puppy mill capital USA, all the people go out there to buy their little mutts and then when they are board of them they are dumped in our shelters... and it is only getting worse and worse because of the economy... *sigh*