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what about bugs insects?

Sew-sew-steve
April 13th, 2011, 07:02 AM
i was just wondering.... is there any humanitarian groups for insects or bugs? or is there people who choose not to kill them or use poison or other things to get rid of bugs or insects because they believe in being humane with all beings?

i mean, we cant say that insects or bugs dont feel pain..... can we?

im kinda torn, i mean, where do you draw the line? i dont step on bugs (purposly) and even if i do i usually dont take it personally, its more of an impersonal thing, but is that ok?

whats the difference between a frog and a bee? does a bee not deserve what a lion or a dog or a cat deserve? what about spiders? cockroaches?

is it really ok to use bug poison? or poison for flies? cockroaches? ants? :shrug::confused::wall::frustrated::yell:

ok im not that torn, but you get the point.

Melinda
April 13th, 2011, 07:13 AM
very interesting question Steve, I'll tell you how I am........I live in an older home, I get hundreds of ladybugs and have purposely bought a dust buster (hand held vacume) suck em up every morning and then dump them in the field beside me, insects don't bother me except for SPIDERS!!!!!! *LOL* but again, I put a glass over them, slide a paper under it to trap them then toss it all outside *L* glass and all. I do the same with bee's and wasps, 3 times a year when the spider eggs hatch , april, July and october, I'll wash down our house daily for 5 days, it gets rid of the eggs, now maybe that is killing them? I don't know...we have tons of birds that eat the spider eggs. So maybe I'm feeding the birds? Mosquito's don't bite me....hubs says my blood is as rotten as the rest of me so I normally don't swat them. Now do I do it because I like bugs, cause they hurt also? who knows...I just don't like squishing anything *L* I guess it doesn't really answer too much for you Steve, just my ways.

funny story, I DO own a flyswatter, it was a wedding "favor" for an outdoor wedding, anyways, I had a friend down for the weekend, terrified of wasps so I gave it to her to use while we sat outside, man did she swing that swatter!!! never hit a damn thing except the deck when she'd lose her grip on it and it would go flying *LOL* what a site, we now have at our home what we call the *****(her name) dance when we see wasps.

mummummum
April 13th, 2011, 08:10 AM
Is this a pseudo-philosophical question about the hierarchy of life forms or a request for resources?

There are many groups world-wide concerned with the preservation of insects and their habitats. In fact, just the other day I posted a video about bee colony collapse disorder and what you, or I could do to counter this devastating and pervasive disorder.

mummummum
April 13th, 2011, 08:58 AM
Or have you been reading the news again SSS? ;)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/apr/10/bolivia-enshrines-natural-worlds-rights

The ombuds job would certainly make moderating a bulletin board look like child's play comparatively speaking... :laughing:

Shaykeija
April 13th, 2011, 10:03 AM
meh...it flies at me..it dies
it lands on me....it dies
it eats my flowers...it dies....

mummummum
April 13th, 2011, 10:09 AM
:sorry::offtopic: So that's what happened to your previous three husbands... :laughing:

Melinda
April 13th, 2011, 10:35 AM
:sorry::offtopic: So that's what happened to your previous three husbands... :laughing:

*LOL* do they make husband spray? ManOff?

back on topic , the reason I don't spray the house or yard is because when my late dog was sick, we stopped all chemical usage to help her liver, inside and outside the house

mummummum
April 13th, 2011, 10:48 AM
*LOL* do they make husband spray? ManOff?

back on topic , the reason I don't spray the house or yard is because when my late dog was sick, we stopped all chemical usage to help her liver, inside and outside the house

It's a "clapper" gizmo :sorry::offtopic:... :laughing:

Melinda
April 13th, 2011, 11:10 AM
you're bad! I think I like you

Shaykeija
April 13th, 2011, 11:14 AM
lol :shrug:they have not located the bodies ...yet....:laughing:

erykah1310
April 13th, 2011, 11:28 AM
Considering Ontario is the banning capitol ( in my eyes) I am still floored that it is allowed to spray your yards with pesticides.
I am all for preservation, and I respect that the grossest of insects have a purpose no matter how annoying.
Ie Black Flies... As pointless as they seem they do serve a purpose.
I dont use sprays, I own a fogger that I got last year for mosquitos and used it once then felt so terrible for unleasing the poisions from it and put it away.
I have 2 of those mosquito vac's or magnets or what ever that run off propane. I'm telling you it was the best $800 I ever spent and am looking to get a couple more this year to keep some of the skeeters off the horses as well.
No matter how many skeeters those things kill, it still fills up daily.

Melinda
April 13th, 2011, 11:31 AM
we have a colony of bats that live in our yard, inside the treehouse roof and they take care of a lot of our skeeters, its like watching a ballet every night.

erykah1310
April 13th, 2011, 11:34 AM
We put up bat houses here when we first moved here because that worked wonders at our other place but not one bat has been spotted here. Perhaps because we are in such a wooded area???
I was rural before but more fields around, here there is plenty of bush.
Hopefully some will move in this year to save me another $400 on another skeetervac/magnet ( Icant remember which one we have lol)

14+kitties
April 13th, 2011, 11:55 AM
Considering Ontario is the banning capitol ( in my eyes) I am still floored that it is allowed to spray your yards with pesticides.

:confused:

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@ene/@resources/documents/resource/std01_079826.pdf

Ontario’s cosmetic pesticides ban took effect April 22, 2009. While it means that many
herbicides, fungicides and insecticides can no longer be sold or used for cosmetic purposes on
lawns and gardens, you can still have a beautiful lawn and garden using natural methods and
greener alternatives.


If you are still using herbicides, fungicides, or insecticides on your lawn in Ontario then you have come by them illegally as they have not been sold on store shelves since 2009. This act essentially put a few very popular lawn maintenance companies out of business. :shrug: There are some greener methods available but nothing deemed dangerous for the environment. They are about as effective as throwing a cup of hot water on your lawn.

Oh, and this ban - I agree with.

Love4himies
April 13th, 2011, 12:00 PM
meh...it flies at me..it dies
it lands on me....it dies
it eats my flowers...it dies....

:sorry::offtopic: So that's what happened to your previous three husbands... :laughing:

lol :shrug:they have not located the bodies ...yet....:laughing:

you're bad! I think I like you

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: OMG you guys are hilarious :sorry::offtopic: but it was too funny not to laugh.

Melinda
April 13th, 2011, 12:19 PM
as for the ban, people still have stock from when the stores brought in extra in 2008/2009, they advertised "stock up".....and it flew off the shelves, I know some people that have enough to keep their lawns weed free for the next 5 yrs still. and of course the #1 item on most shopping lists when they hop across the USA/Canada border (10 minutes away) is weed spray...

erykah1310
April 13th, 2011, 12:25 PM
Its companies that are spraying it though? Weed Man and them, you see the little bonhomme with the "NO" line through it telling you not to walk on the lawn because of pesticide use. When I would have to walk across these lawns on a daily basis you can't even breathe as the smell of what ever they sprayed chokes you out. I have no idea what they are spraying with but there is a pretty stern warning on the little paper signs about pets and people ect.

14+kitties
April 13th, 2011, 12:26 PM
as for the ban, people still have stock from when the stores brought in extra in 2008/2009, they advertised "stock up".....and it flew off the shelves, I know some people that have enough to keep their lawns weed free for the next 5 yrs still. and of course the #1 item on most shopping lists when they hop across the USA/Canada border (10 minutes away) is weed spray...


Which, in my humble opinion, is another way of flaunting laws. I wonder if folks knew the fines they faced if caught if they'd still do it. Of course they would. Gotta' have those green, weed free lawns. :frustrated: Doesn't matter what they do to the environment.

Melinda
April 13th, 2011, 12:36 PM
Its companies that are spraying it though? Weed Man and them, you see the little bonhomme with the "NO" line through it telling you not to walk on the lawn because of pesticide use. When I would have to walk across these lawns on a daily basis you can't even breathe as the smell of what ever they sprayed chokes you out. I have no idea what they are spraying with but there is a pretty stern warning on the little paper signs about pets and people ect.


they told me it was an all natural spray that has a chemical reaction when it hits the "sap" of certain plants, but a friend that works there also told me it doesn't work but it makes people feel better when they spray *L* some are soooo gullible, mine is full of weeds, but......a rabbit eats the clover and the groundhogs eat the dandilions *L* now if only someone would eat the thistles...

Longblades
April 13th, 2011, 12:37 PM
Pesticides are banned here. More for the sake of ridding the earth, air and water of chemicals than for preserving plant or animal life but it's a start. Mind you, they're only banned for the average citizen. Municipalties still spray for mosquitoes in fear of West Nile and other agencies also can use pesticides that you and I cannot.

I like the blackfly comment. Do you like blueberries? Do you like trout fishing? Thank the blackfly for it's contribution to pollination and feeding fish. 'Course, I'm one of the lucky ones the pesky little things don't like much. :)

Shaykeija
April 13th, 2011, 12:38 PM
ha i kill weeds the old fashioned way....i cook the little buggers by pouring boiling water on them. keeps my lawn full of dead holes for a while, but no weeds or thistles...

mummummum
April 13th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Its companies that are spraying it though? Weed Man and them, you see the little bonhomme with the "NO" line through it telling you not to walk on the lawn because of pesticide use. When I would have to walk across these lawns on a daily basis you can't even breathe as the smell of what ever they sprayed chokes you out. I have no idea what they are spraying with but there is a pretty stern warning on the little paper signs about pets and people ect.

Walk through Rosedale (a chi-chi nabe in Toronto) and you'll find DOZENS and DOZENS of people who have somehow obtained exemptions.

There are so many alternatives to grass lawns...why have them anyway? :shrug:

Melinda
April 13th, 2011, 02:50 PM
I have an exemption because of my daycare and because our yard has poison parsnip , poison oak and poison ivy (comes from the fields next to us) but we don't take advantage of it, I just pull out the vines as they grow and the poison parsnip is dug out with my handy dandy step on weeder *L*.

Sew-sew-steve
April 14th, 2011, 08:19 AM
melinda, we've been there!

around the time i had sew-sew-steve, we had a minimum of 17 dead flies daily! we were one of the first residents the neighborhood at the time. but i agree, its always funny to laugh at a friends futile attempts to kill a fly lol.


i appreciate everyones input on the subject, but why is there bans on chemical agents ? for INSECTS? or for HUMANS and ANIMALS? i think its the latter.
we didnt create ourselfs, so how on what grounds are we better then insects?

and to answer your question mummummum, this a pseudo-philosophical question about the hierarchy of life forms :). i guess i just didnt realise it until you brought it up!

mummummum
April 15th, 2011, 06:56 PM
...why is there bans on chemical agents ? for INSECTS? or for HUMANS and ANIMALS? i think its the latter.
we didnt create ourselfs, so how on what grounds are we better then insects?

and to answer your question mummummum, this a pseudo-philosophical question about the hierarchy of life forms :). i guess i just didnt realise it until you brought it up!

S'arighty then ... errrrmmm...I was actually waiting for you to begin. Nothing like pseudo-philosophy to kickstart the ol' pre-frontal cortex. :D

Sooooo, sew-sew...Is the above your stated position? Perhaps you would like to elaborate a little. And if I may, a little clarification on your statement:
"we didnt create ourselfs, so how on what grounds are we better then insects"
would not go amiss. Further, is this a pure creationist perspective, intelligent design....?

onster
April 15th, 2011, 07:03 PM
Having lived where cockroaches are very common. I'm sorry those those things are disgusting lol. I do not advocate cockroach life. It can do whatever the heck it wants outside, but the moment it decides to climb out through the sewers and into my washroom, is the moment I scream bloody murder and have all the men come out with the slippers:yell::yuck: Give me the heebie jeebies.

clm
April 15th, 2011, 08:21 PM
I find most insects facinating with a few exceptions. Cockroaches would be something I would not tolerate and ants in the house are another. Termites would also be exterminated if they decided to enter my humble abode. However although I react terribly to spider bites, I saved one that had somehow gotten into a bowl in the sink yesterday, I find watching ants outside facinating. Even have a couple of large nests of red ants in different places in the garden every year and I leave them be. I don't kill mosquitos with foggers or what not, but I do put mosquito dunks in my lotus pots so they don't act as a breeding ground.
Most insects truly are remarkable to watch. Hornets, wasps, bees, beetles. All are facinating. The pond has it's own remarkable host of insects and they do are so much fun to watch.
People are so quick to kill what they fear or what they feel is harming their plants instead of learning about the bugs and finding natural control solutions IMO.

clm

Masha
April 15th, 2011, 10:32 PM
When i lived in israel, the size of the cockroaches there is absolutely terrifying... some were almost 2 inches long and could fly... others were 2 inches long and liked to hide in your shoes.. so when you went to put your foot in, you heard a 'crunch' :yuck::yuck: and there were white 'guts' all over the shoe and your foot/sock... its beyond gross...:yuck:

Masha
April 15th, 2011, 10:33 PM
Having lived where cockroaches are very common. I'm sorry those those things are disgusting lol. I do not advocate cockroach life. It can do whatever the heck it wants outside, but the moment it decides to climb out through the sewers and into my washroom, is the moment I scream bloody murder and have all the men come out with the slippers:yell::yuck: Give me the heebie jeebies.

you probably had similar cockroaches to us... did you have the huge brown ones and the flying red ones?? :yuck::yuck: makes me shudder remembering those things...

Shaykeija
April 15th, 2011, 10:45 PM
I would kind of like to get one of these Madagascar Hissing Cockroachs. You can wear them as jewellery..

Sew-sew-steve
April 17th, 2011, 07:17 AM
S'arighty then ... errrrmmm...I was actually waiting for you to begin. Nothing like pseudo-philosophy to kickstart the ol' pre-frontal cortex. :D

Sooooo, sew-sew...Is the above your stated position? Perhaps you would like to elaborate a little. And if I may, a little clarification on your statement:
"we didnt create ourselfs, so how on what grounds are we better then insects"
would not go amiss. Further, is this a pure creationist perspective, intelligent design....?

i guess i should have been more sensitive to peoples beliefs.
i, believe in god, so i believe god created humans, animals, insects, bugs, etc..etc..

so in respect to that, i believe that im not better then the insects i've killed over the years, or the animals i've taken in for that matter. so thats really the center of where these thoughts and feelings are coming from.

i wonder what an atheist or someone with other beliefs would say about relationship between humans and other beings...?

im trying to be more sensitive to the fact that my superiority to animals and insects isnt an excuse for me to treat them badly (not that i do) or to think of them and their purpose in life lightly.
i've stopped eating meats because i do not condone the way animals are slaughtered. this is something that saddens me, because kuwait is an islamic country, and islam has laws and ways in which you slaughter animals, and no ones implementing them.

hope that answers your question mummummum. btw, i like spelling your name :D

mummummum
April 17th, 2011, 12:17 PM
So sew-sew, if I understand you correctly, you believe that your god created humans as superior to all other creatures on the planet. That you are at the top of the food chain, as it were, and that creatures exist to serve you in whatever way you see fit.

I assume you base this belief solely on your faith that your god exists or are you able to explain and support this belief system with examples from nature and science? Aside from man's obvious capacity for expropriating the lives of others and use of enslavement and torture as "the means to an end" that is.

Good topic for discussion btw :thumbs up

Sew-sew-steve
April 17th, 2011, 02:52 PM
I underatand your curiosity in my beliefs, but i'd much appreciate it if we could stay on track with this thread. You know, about bugs and insects, if people believe they have rights just like animals and humans do? ;)

If you want to talk about religion I'd be happy to dicuss my beliefs with you through pm :).

shirley1011
April 17th, 2011, 03:29 PM
i guess i should have been more sensitive to peoples beliefs.
i, believe in god, so i believe god created humans, animals, insects, bugs, etc..etc..

so in respect to that, i believe that im not better then the insects i've killed over the years, or the animals i've taken in for that matter. so thats really the center of where these thoughts and feelings are coming from.

i wonder what an atheist or someone with other beliefs would say about relationship between humans and other beings...?

name :D

seems like you were the one who wanted to discuss religion!

I personally don't think bugs, insects have a place in religion...and some insects are benefial and others are down right nasty...and each of us has to do what we have to do to survive the great outdoors just my :2cents:

mummummum
April 17th, 2011, 04:25 PM
I underatand your curiosity in my beliefs, but i'd much appreciate it if we could stay on track with this thread. You know, about bugs and insects, if people believe they have rights just like animals and humans do? ;)

If you want to talk about religion I'd be happy to dicuss my beliefs with you through pm :).

Actually sew-sew, I'm not the least bit interested in your religion and if you have read what I've posted I haven't referred to religion once. However, I believe you have several times.

I've simply asked you to establish the framework for your ideology of hierarchy amongst species and how that relates to nature and science. As you subsequently mentioned a belief in a god and wondered out loud what atheists believe about insects and their "place in the order of things" as it were, I simply asked you to establish that framework whether it be creationism, intelligent design or...

Were you to describe yourself as Judeo-Christian, Pagan, Satanist, Muslim, Wiccan, Humanist, Agnostic, Athiest ~ it's all really quite irrelevant to me in a philosophical or ideological discussion and I've not asked you to provide that particular label to me. So your inference that I am "off topic" is mystifying. A misunderstanding perhaps.

However, if you are discomforted by a higher level of discussion so be it. It's not for everyone.

So, let me put it more simply then... are bugs here for your* purpose, your use, is their very existence determined by you?

* "you" and "your" here is used as equivalent to "human" reflective only of how you sew-sew, see yourself as a human in relation to what you describe as lesser species.

Sew-sew-steve
April 17th, 2011, 04:35 PM
I guess it boils down to morals. What I ment was not that I wanted to discuss religion. But what people believe is ok and what people believe isn't ok with bugs and insects... And Beliefs effect it to a certain extent.

For example, I as a Muslim, believe that god created everything. So despite being the superior, I don't believe I'm better then an insect because I didn't create myself. I never decided I did or didn't want to be human and the same goes for the insect or bug.

I doubt an atheist or someone with a differed background in belief would say the same thing.

Catch my drift?

mummummum
April 17th, 2011, 04:46 PM
No, I don't actually sew-sew.

An atheist or an agnostic or a wiccan or a pagan, perhaps even those of judeo-christian beliefs, do not necessarily believe in their moral or their innate superiority to other life forms.

So, let me ask you the same question from a different perspective.

What makes you think you are not a parasite ?

Sew-sew-steve
April 17th, 2011, 04:56 PM
What makes me believe that I am not a
Parasite is the fact that I ultimately depend on myself for survival and not on anyone else.

Are you saying humans aren't superior to insects or bugs?

Masha
April 17th, 2011, 04:56 PM
I dont think superiority has anything to do with religion, rather with personal belief as to the order of species in the world. I am personally an atheist and i dont think any species is 'superior' to another. In nature, each species has its own purpose and unique skill/ability that helps their survival. I dont think that human being are very superior at all... evey day i see more and more examples of such utter stupidity and senseless violence and waste, that i dont see how we can be so 'superiorr. we have certain strengths other species dont have, but we also have weaknesses that other species dont have...

Masha
April 17th, 2011, 05:02 PM
What makes me believe that I am not a
Parasite is the fact that I ultimately depend on myself for survival and not on anyone else.


But humans slowly consume the earth's resources for their survival... we consume them at such a rate that we are slowly killing it off.... just like a parasite...

mummummum
April 17th, 2011, 06:11 PM
What makes me believe...?

Thank you again for what may become a very invigorating discussion and I appreciate your intent to relieve this discussion with the heavy-hand of the "need to defend one's religion". :D

So, let's take this in two easy parts then.

What makes me believe that I am not a
Parasite is the fact that I ultimately depend on myself for survival and not on anyone else.

If one depends only upon one's self for survival then that must by reductive logic mean...

you do not eat, you do not drink, your biological waste does not exist or disappears without a trace, you do not breathe, you are not clothed, you are not housed, you have no need for heat or cooling, you have no need of the "bugs" that live on the soles of your feet and your eyelashes or in your gut. In other words you do not exist.

With me so far? As Masha has rightly pointed out, we live on the planet and we live only because of the planet. Once the planet stops, so do we.

Are you saying humans aren't superior to insects or bugs?

Am I?

I'm fairly "well-travelled" ~ so, I try not to make distinctions amongst cultures. Human or animal.

I, and we as a species, do not yet understand and have no or few ways with which to communicate with those who do not speak "our" language. Be it vocal, sounds or physical signs. My earlier point...we humans, have a capacity for expropriating the lives of others and use of enslavement and torture as "the means to an end" ~ is that a good thing? Is that what it means to be a "superior" being?

Is that what it mean to be human? To see a hierarchy of what can be killed without regret and consumed.

sugarcatmom
April 17th, 2011, 08:33 PM
On a semi-related note, check out what amazing architects and farmers ants are: http://www.huginn.com/knuth/blog/2008/01/21/excavating-a-giant-ant-colony/

Sew-sew-steve
April 18th, 2011, 06:16 AM
Thank you again for what may become a very invigorating discussion and I appreciate your intent to relieve this discussion with the heavy-hand of the "need to defend one's religion". :D

So, let's take this in two easy parts then.



If one depends only upon one's self for survival then that must by reductive logic mean...

you do not eat, you do not drink, your biological waste does not exist or disappears without a trace, you do not breathe, you are not clothed, you are not housed, you have no need for heat or cooling, you have no need of the "bugs" that live on the soles of your feet and your eyelashes or in your gut. In other words you do not exist.

With me so far? As Masha has rightly pointed out, we live on the planet and we live only because of the planet. Once the planet stops, so do we.



Am I?

I'm fairly "well-travelled" ~ so, I try not to make distinctions amongst cultures. Human or animal.

I, and we as a species, do not yet understand and have no or few ways with which to communicate with those who do not speak "our" language. Be it vocal, sounds or physical signs. My earlier point...we humans, have a capacity for expropriating the lives of others and use of enslavement and torture as "the means to an end" ~ is that a good thing? Is that what it means to be a "superior" being?

Is that what it mean to be human? To see a hierarchy of what can be killed without regret and consumed.

so you believe humans aren't superior to other life forms. interesting...

as wonderful as this is -- or is getting to be -- i still havent gotten what i wanted, what i started this thread for in the first place. which is what people believe is ok or isnt ok with bugs and insects, and where to draw the line with what deserves humane treatment, and what doesnt...

Sew-sew-steve
April 18th, 2011, 06:17 AM
On a semi-related note, check out what amazing architects and farmers ants are: http://www.huginn.com/knuth/blog/2008/01/21/excavating-a-giant-ant-colony/

wow, thats pretty amazing. :D

Love4himies
April 18th, 2011, 08:13 AM
s i still havent gotten what i wanted, what i started this thread for in the first place. which is what people believe is ok or isnt ok with bugs and insects, and where to draw the line with what deserves humane treatment, and what doesnt...

I find it quite ok to kill those darn deer flies that are biting painfully at my neck when I want to go outside peacefully sit and enjoy my yard. And yup, I am quite fine with killing those flies that want to lay their eggs that create maggots in my garbage can. And yup, should I ever get bed bugs, don't mind killing them so they can't feed off my body and give me stressful nights sleep. And finally, I don't mind killing those spiders that come down into my face when I walk out my door at night. And those darn fleas and ticks that come on my cats, yup, kill every single on of them too, hopefully before they give my cats tapeworm or some evil bacterial infection. I don't know if cockroaches live in this climate, haven't seen one in any of my houses, but I would kill those too.

However, I would not go out of my way to kill anything that leaves me alone, such as bees, butterflies, moths, etc, etc. I have the live and let live kinda attitude. You leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. ;)

pattymac
April 18th, 2011, 02:32 PM
If it's in the house, good chance it'll get killed, either by me or the cats or the dog. Outside, fine, stay outside! You wanna come in my house bug, do it at your own risk :)

marko
April 18th, 2011, 03:28 PM
I think this is a fascinating topic!
Personally, i feel bad when i kill bugs. I don't do it often but when i do I often feel guilty for a sec or two, then it passes. I feel bad because I think that life is precious even when it is a cockroach's life.

Usually i just catch the bug if I can and bring it outside. But If I feel it might be a health thing (and I think that killing it might stop some breeding/spreading) I have stepped on creepy crawlies. I might also swat any insect that is biting me, I don't feel bad.

I doubt I'd ever kill a higher life-form though (reptiles, mammals etc,)...and so i do think this makes me a hypocrite in some way. Because... I am judging which life is more important....I'd like to believe we are all equal though I realize this is not at all true from a practical point of view. (we need to kill to live - period.)

There are MANY religious groups that never kill bugs because they believe (afaik) that god is present in ALL living things and 2 groups that come to mind are Jains and many Buddhists. Personally - I find those goals to be excellent but very difficult to live by.

Another point to all of this has to do with how we are taught to think about bugs when we are children... When you watch your dad kill a bee or a fly it means that doing this is okay. This is a HUGE mistake. You can bet that David Suzuki never taught that to his kids - lol.

so that's my take on this - lol.

Bina
April 18th, 2011, 03:39 PM
Whenever a deer fly or a horse fly takes a chunk out of my neck, they become a target for me to whack. All other insects definitely have their purpose and right to life.
Other than that, insects in my house like bumble bees, moths and such are always safely caught and released back to the outdoors. Oh, but I will use the vacuum on spiders if I need to. ;)

Sew-sew-steve
April 19th, 2011, 01:32 AM
thanks for the answers guys, especially marko! your post was EXACTLY what i was looking for, and to add to it, i feel the same way!

i guess what i've learned from starting this thread is that the rules of survival apply to all beings, big and small. and everything has its territory. if you step on an ant hill, they're going to attack you, if you disturb a bees nest, theyre going to attack you... so in order for us to be all equal, i guess it means its you can treat any intruder as an intruder, whether its a bug, a human, or a bear.

but has anyone noticed, its a lot easier to catch and release then it is to vacume or kill? i mean, who wants to deal with cleaning a stain after you've forced yourself to endure the disturbingly creepy job of killing a spider or some gross looking bug?

Masha
April 19th, 2011, 08:02 AM
but has anyone noticed, its a lot easier to catch and release then it is to vacume or kill? i mean, who wants to deal with cleaning a stain after you've forced yourself to endure the disturbingly creepy job of killing a spider or some gross looking bug?

I would love to be ablet to catch and release spiders... but i am physically incapable... i end up screaming and jumping involuntarily.... and usually take off in the oppsite direction... which make is hard to turn around and get so close to it to catch it in a cup and carry it with me anywhere :laughing:

I find vaccuming certain bugs is a very effective tool for my sanity... especially when a spider hangs out on the ceiling right above my head in bed... :yuck:

Love4himies
April 19th, 2011, 08:47 AM
but has anyone noticed, its a lot easier to catch and release then it is to vacume or kill?

I don't know about that, those darn deer and horse flies aren't really affectionate while I am kindly holding them in my hands asking them nicely to please go away :shrug:. :laughing:


:laughing::laughing: Masha, I wouldn't be able to sleep :eek:, thinking the spider was going to come down while I'm sleeping with my mouth open :yuck: :laughing:

hazelrunpack
April 19th, 2011, 09:14 AM
I'll kill things that I know are harmful--ticks and skeeters, for instance--with no qualms. But I don't like to kill anything just because it happens to be in my house--so I'll trap and release anything that I want to get rid of. And if I do have to kill it, I'll be as humane and quick about it as I can--even with bugs! They're living creatures and suffer on their own scale, I'm sure, and it's no fault of their own that they're on my elimination list. For that reason, I won't even vacuum up lady bugs unless they're dead--the thought of them suffocating in the dust inside the bag actually makes me sad :shrug: (Which, I might add, makes the asian lady beetles a real conundrum--too many to catch and release one-at-a-time and I won't vacuum up live ones--so we end up with lots of 'em crawling around the house at certain times of the year... :o)

I don't know that it's easier, per se, to catch-and-release than vacuum-and-kill, but release doesn't make me feel as guilty as killing.

Spiders used to give me the heebie-jeebies, but then I met ticks. :evil:

Sew-sew-steve
April 19th, 2011, 03:50 PM
I'll kill things that I know are harmful--ticks and skeeters, for instance--with no qualms. But I don't like to kill anything just because it happens to be in my house--so I'll trap and release anything that I want to get rid of. And if I do have to kill it, I'll be as humane and quick about it as I can--even with bugs! They're living creatures and suffer on their own scale, I'm sure, and it's no fault of their own that they're on my elimination list. For that reason, I won't even vacuum up lady bugs unless they're dead--the thought of them suffocating in the dust inside the bag actually makes me sad :shrug: (Which, I might add, makes the asian lady beetles a real conundrum--too many to catch and release one-at-a-time and I won't vacuum up live ones--so we end up with lots of 'em crawling around the house at certain times of the year... :o)

I don't know that it's easier, per se, to catch-and-release than vacuum-and-kill, but release doesn't make me feel as guilty as killing.

Spiders used to give me the heebie-jeebies, but then I met ticks. :evil:

well said! i feel the same way!

but theres certain insects or bugs i dont mind holding, or observing while they rest on my finger (like lady bugs!).

hazelrunpack
April 19th, 2011, 04:16 PM
I used to like lady bugs--but the asian ones bite!!! And stink... :o Still...I just can't bring myself to vacuum them up.

Inthedoghouse
April 19th, 2011, 05:18 PM
---interesting discussion/reading. I am with those who live and let live "outside" and keep the creepy crawlers OUT of my house - as I wouldn't sleep at night knowing they were going to crawl over me or into my ears etc. I DO feel bad even when I squash a pill bug in my basement.... for me, the basic decision is: can I live with myself when I kill "anything" I am able to without going to jail (eg my neighbour)!!
I definitely feel I am bringing an end to the life of an insect, but have to weigh the pros and cons and my concience. For sure, everyone has an opinion - and no-one (no-one) knows whether it's right or wrong - until that day we all meet up in "another place" - where maybe all these "mysteries and miseries" of life will be explained.
I remember reading a long time ago that earth is "inhospitable" to humans and that bugs and disease are, basically, out to kill us (such as eboli): but don't remember who said it.... anyone know?

Inthedoghouse
April 19th, 2011, 06:26 PM
..just had a thought: is there a difference if a bat kills a mosquito and eats it, or I swat and kill a mosquito? The bug still dies. If I eat it, does it ex out my action?

Masha
April 19th, 2011, 08:18 PM
..just had a thought: is there a difference if a bat kills a mosquito and eats it, or I swat and kill a mosquito? The bug still dies. If I eat it, does it ex out my action?

:yuck::yuck::yuck:

hazelrunpack
April 19th, 2011, 11:15 PM
I'm not eating any ticks to see if it exes out my actions, Inthedoghouse! :laughing: Just sayin'... :o

But that is a very unique way of looking at the question! :D

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2011, 01:25 AM
good question!


this is how i look at it... the bat is doing it as a means of survival, we do it as a means of comfort...? ok, wait... they could have malaria or some kind of disease, but that doesnt really scare me when im in kuwait or canada because the water here and there is predominantly clean.

so again, it comes down to the reason as to why it died.... so i guess if you ate...it, it would make things more "ok" and weird at the same time :P

the only time we ever vacumed a bug was when we had a grasshopper in our house, and we could not get close enough to catch it.... either that or i was too chicken to go up to it haha. yeah, i think i was too chicken... but i really did feel bad about it. still do, actually.

Shaykeija
April 20th, 2011, 01:43 AM
My answer to bugs, higher life form or not...

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u55/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Animal%20and%20pet%20related/flys.gif

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg284/spagirl78/bugspray.jpg

[

quincymycat
April 20th, 2011, 06:44 AM
I'll likely be gone after this....and Shay...didnt know you beat me to it!!! Sorry!

Shaykeija
April 20th, 2011, 10:31 AM
Now that was funny....

erykah1310
April 20th, 2011, 11:08 AM
My cats kill houseflies out of the windows but do not eat them, I dont think we have to eat them to ex out our action.

As for relocating bugs from inside to outside, my biggest problems as someone who lives in the middle of the bush is the bugs outside not so much what is in my house. I dont usually bother moving things that are in my house, the cats take care of those. Creepy crawler drain spiders get washed back down the drain when seen and considering we heat strictly with wood ( which could be a whole other can of worms since we kill trees for heat) a lot and I mean a LOT of interesting bugs can be found crawling across the floors when a load comes in. We dont take the time to assess who is what and what should be relocated or not, they are in hibernation mode when they come in and to throw them back out into subzero temperatures is just far more cruel than killing them swiftly.

Shaykeija
April 20th, 2011, 11:46 PM
flushed a spider today...

mummummum
April 21st, 2011, 12:00 AM
Are you feeling a little "eensy weensy" ? :laughing:

Try the waterspout... safe landings!

Shaykeija
April 21st, 2011, 12:05 AM
lol too bad no sun lol

Chris21711
April 21st, 2011, 11:52 AM
flushed a spider today...

Me too Shay....it wanted to help me brush my teefies :eek: I don't like to be that homey with a spider.

Anything with intentions to hoit me, is a goner.....anything that wants to munch on my plants in the garden, is a goner....if they don't bother me then I don't bother them.