Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Intracardiac injections (Warning - graphic wording)

Sew-sew-steve
March 25th, 2011, 01:28 PM
Hey everyone,

I hope the year is treating you well so far.


Today I assisted with euthanizing 10 puppies. The method used was the intracardiac injection, they were sedated prior and checked for any feeling of pain before my superior injected the drug "T61" into their hearts.

I wanted to know what your opinions were on this method of euthanizing animals.

Because it's illegal, the drug ( I forget it's name) that is used for the usual intravenous injection, this is all we have.

From what I understand, the intracardiac method is more efficient too.

But anyways, for those who are familiar with this stuff, I wanted to know what you thought of this method? Humane? Cruel? No different then the IV method?


Ibrahim

SamIam
March 25th, 2011, 01:44 PM
The one we use here IV can also be used intracardiac, though I've only seen that method done as the second or third shot when things go wrong.

Rough day for you!:(

Sew-sew-steve
March 25th, 2011, 01:53 PM
Yeah, rough day.

5 were put down due to a virus. Their mother actually ate half of one that was already dead from the virus ( no idea why she'd do that).

another 5 were put down because their mother was hit by a car, which caused them to be traumatized, like abnormally fearful. Also they were too feral.

Chris21711
March 25th, 2011, 05:35 PM
Heart sticking is used widely in Canada....Apparently it is more cost effective. But definately not very humane.

kathryn
March 25th, 2011, 07:01 PM
I'm not familiar with that drug. We use Fatal Plus (pentobarbital sodium) where I live.

IC injections work effectively only if the animal is totally sedated AND the tech knows where to inject.

It works quicker than IV injections yes, but in the scheme of things it's not really any better or more cost efficient in my opinion. It works well when a vein isn't easily accessible, like if the cat or dog is REALLY tiny (neonatal) or if the animal is soo sickly the veins are collapsed.

I don't even know if we are supposed to do IC injections in my state :shrug: techs do but we mark it off as IV most of the time. I mean, I don't specifically, because I am not a euthanasia tech, but there are times were IC injections are more practical.

Obviously for times when the euthanasia is an OR (owner request) and the person is present you can't just stab their pet in the heart, that probably wouldn't go over well.

Sew-sew-steve
March 25th, 2011, 10:43 PM
That's interesting...

I do believe it's more cost effective because your using less drugs, or less of the drug.

My superior told me that you can overdose with the sedation to use less of the heart sticking drug if your running low.

I think the IV is more suitable for pet owners, it's more pretty... but in the end it's the same result. Unfortunately for the puppies, they had no owners, so it's the method that we use.

We pinch the sift skin between their nails for an pain response. And we give them a good 10 minutes to get sedated completely.

Well thanks guys, this was a topic of interest for me.

Have good one!!!

mummummum
March 25th, 2011, 10:50 PM
So....wait a minute. For the rest of us. Who do care, I might point out.

Why is THIS method a concern to you Sew-Sew. (nice to see you and your kitties back btw)

SamIam
March 25th, 2011, 11:14 PM
My superior told me that you can overdose with the sedation to use less of the heart sticking drug if your running low.

Actually, you can use a sedative OD alone, too. I believe you are right about cost though, so it would be more of an option on small animals. As for which is more humane? Unfortunately, any of the options can cause certain animals pain, discomfort, or fear; and even when administered as prescribed, they all have first-shot failure rates greater than zero.

Sew-sew-steve
March 26th, 2011, 10:56 AM
"when administered as prescribed, they all have first-shot failure rates greater than zero."

I don't get that, we got them down first try, and we leave them dead for a good hour+.



As for why I brought this up?
It's a topic of interest for me. To put it simply, when I be a vet, I wanna be used to taking other peoples' opinions on certain methods or what have you. It helps me conceive my own opinion properly.

mikischo
March 26th, 2011, 11:08 AM
Hi, SSS. Good to hear from you. I wasn't on here that much for a while either.

I agree, no matter how it is done, in the end it's the same result. :( Just hope it is as quick and painless as possible. It's a sad reality in shelters here in Canada as well.

I am so glad you are continuing to volunteer at the shelter and I hope the positive experiences far outweigh the negative. :grouphug:

mummummum
March 26th, 2011, 11:53 AM
As for why I brought this up?
It's a topic of interest for me. To put it simply, when I be a vet, I wanna be used to taking other peoples' opinions on certain methods or what have you. It helps me conceive my own opinion properly.

You are at Vet school? I didn't know that ~ Good on ya SSS!

Sew-sew-steve
March 26th, 2011, 04:34 PM
Lol no I'm not at vet school yet I'm still in Kuwait and making arrangments to go back at the end of this year. But I am reading a book about ginetics called "asking about life"

Mikischo!! Looooong time no see! Hope you've been good !

The positive definetly outweigh the negative. It's a double edged sword, but I've developed a slow emotional response to things. It's weird, so it's impersonal for me when im helping to kill 10 puppies, you could say I'm numb, or it doesn't feel real. It's only later on that it sinks in. It's got it's ups and downs.

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback! I hope I didn't disturb anyone.


Ibrahim

kathryn
March 26th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Anyhow, thanks for the feedback! I hope I didn't disturb anyone.


Ibrahim

Lol, not much can disturb me anymore :o I'm sure if you were to look through my surgery pics I have saved on my computer from being at the shelter they might actually disturb YOU :laughing:

Sew-sew-steve
March 26th, 2011, 04:44 PM
Oh, how rude of me.

Thanks mummummum, Its nice to see you too!

Sew-sew-steve
March 26th, 2011, 04:45 PM
Lol, not much can disturb me anymore :o I'm sure if you were to look through my surgery pics I have saved on my computer from being at the shelter they might actually disturb YOU :laughing:

Lol maybe, but I'll be just like you soon enough :P

SamIam
March 26th, 2011, 05:08 PM
Steve, when you are no longer bothered by death or the fact that you have to cause it, might be time to retire...

kathryn
March 26th, 2011, 08:19 PM
Steve, when you are no longer bothered by death or the fact that you have to cause it, might be time to retire...

Or maybe it's the fact that when you work in a business like this if you let every death get to you, you will be a terrible terrible tech/vet. I know of a vet that would practically cry every time he had to put an animal to sleep or a cat or a dog died. It interferes with your work terribly. Not that putting an animal to sleep should ever be "fun" or anything, but I think it is quite ridiculous of you to go ahead and make a judgement like that.

Just my :2cents:

SamIam
March 26th, 2011, 08:38 PM
:shrug: When Steve described how it bothered him, but he was still able to maintain a certain distance from it, to me that fits well with what I would like to see in a vet. Strong but still very much a caring person. I hope that part of him doesn't change as he goes through vet school and eventually practices as a vet. JMO

mummummum
March 26th, 2011, 08:59 PM
Or maybe it's the fact that when you work in a business like this if you let every death get to you, you will be a terrible terrible tech/vet. I know of a vet that would practically cry every time he had to put an animal to sleep or a cat or a dog died. It interferes with your work terribly. Not that putting an animal to sleep should ever be "fun" or anything, but I think it is quite ridiculous of you to go ahead and make a judgement like that.

Just my :2cents:

:grouphug: Kathryn ~ I could not do what you do every day. My heart would break in two. Or, I'd become a serial killer. Not kidding.

Your post is truly heartfelt. Each and every death has emotional consequences, some are just more profound than others. And, if you cannot detach to some extent, you risk your own emotional well-being and mental health.

I think Sam was simply trying to reassure SewSew that what he is feeling is normal and healthy but that should he no longer have an emotional connection to the lives he is ending, then it has become just a job and no longer a calling.

You, you have that calling. And we know it could never be just "a job" to you. :grouphug:

Sew-sew-steve
March 27th, 2011, 10:47 AM
to put things in perspective, its like when someone tells you "my friend passed away yesterday."

you dont get affected by it the same way they do, but its not a "fun" thing to hear either.
like i said, having a slow emotional reaction to things, its a double edged sword.

but yeah, thanks guys for sharing your opinions!

Sew-sew-steve
March 27th, 2011, 10:49 AM
:shrug: When Steve described how it bothered him, but he was still able to maintain a certain distance from it, to me that fits well with what I would like to see in a vet. Strong but still very much a caring person. I hope that part of him doesn't change as he goes through vet school and eventually practices as a vet. JMO

thank you, i hope that doesnt change either! :highfive: