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Malignant Histiocytoma :(

Rgeurts
March 23rd, 2011, 05:31 PM
Has anyone ever dealt with this? I spoke with the hospital today and the student vet couldn't tell me much, except this is what Thorin has, was completely unexpected and said I'll have to wait for the Oncologist, but that he wil most likely not have a lot of information on treatment as it is extremely rare and there is not a lot of literature on it. I did google it and found a few things, but they all seem to say the same thing, just worded a bit differently, and vague. We don't know what stage it is at yet, but I'm hoping someone will get back to us today to review all the details.

kathryn
March 23rd, 2011, 06:30 PM
Sorry to hear that :( I saw a snippit of your post on FB earlier about it... I've never heard of a malignant one, but for the regular ones you normally have to do a course of steroids and anti-histamines like benedryl or something.
:grouphug:

hazelrunpack
March 23rd, 2011, 07:24 PM
Oh, no, Robyn :grouphug:

:fingerscr that it's at an early enough stage that the excision took care of it all! Do they think this is a metastasis or a primary histiocytoma? Or don't they know, yet?

Sending lots of :goodvibes: and saying prayers for Thorin! Wish you guys could catch a break! :grouphug:

Rgeurts
March 23rd, 2011, 09:56 PM
Sorry to hear that :( I saw a snippit of your post on FB earlier about it... I've never heard of a malignant one, but for the regular ones you normally have to do a course of steroids and anti-histamines like benedryl or something.
:grouphug:

Apparently it's a rare form of cancer. It's completely different than a Histiocytoma, they just share part of the name. The tumor itself is a malignant Histiocytoma, but the official name is Canine Malignant Histiocytosis (Canine Disseminated Histiocytic Sarcoma).

Oh, no, Robyn :grouphug:

:fingerscr that it's at an early enough stage that the excision took care of it all! Do they think this is a metastasis or a primary histiocytoma? Or don't they know, yet?

Sending lots of :goodvibes: and saying prayers for Thorin! Wish you guys could catch a break! :grouphug:

Hazel, we just don't know what to think or expect. I did finally speak to the Dr. in Washington, then our family vet called (she had spoken with them as well), and they're all just baffled. They said this type of cancer presents in multiple tumors, and almost always starts in the spleen, and sometimes in the liver, and typically is seen in Bernese Mountain dogs, but occasionaly Golden Labs and Retrievers, and is rare. They have never seen a single, primary lung tumor. They said that it's highly unlikely that they got all the cancer(though they did not find any cancer cells on the edges of the tissue, so they do not think that it spread from that specific tumor). What they "think" is that there are some free floating cancer cells that just haven't found their "home" and settled to form tumors. Both the Dr. in Washington and our vet have said they just can't predict anything because there is really nothing typical about this for them to go by. What our regular vet said is that Thorin is the best candidate she has seen, with this specific cancer type, for Chemo. She said it works best on the individual cells, but not very well on actual tumors. So we will be starting chemo next week and pray for the best case scenario that they did get it all, or at the very least, the chemo will slow the growth of the cells so that we will have him longer. The life expectantcy without chemo is 3-6 months once diagnosed. With chemo, it's 9 months. :cry:

MaxaLisa
March 24th, 2011, 12:58 AM
Oh no, I'm so sorry, cancer sucks.

I would consider adding the supplement IP6 Cell Forte by enzymatic therapy to the protocol. It helps cancer cells die a programed death, so it will make chemotherapy more effective, at least in theory.

I went to see if I could find some evidence of it working in sarcomas, and could only find evidence in Rhabdomyosarcoma, cited at this link: http://www.raysahelian.com/ip-6.html

This paper reference positive results in a fibrosarcoma: http://www.ip6gold.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/IP6-in-Cancer-Therapy-Past-Present-Future.pdf

It's also referenced here: http://books.google.com/books?id=J5UYuxN_W6MC&pg=PT227&lpg=PT227&dq=sarcoma+ip6&source=bl&ots=0QzruS5eCT&sig=5lx2MjwOO5MfKnplWQNVv9n16WU&hl=en&ei=39mKTYTdLJD2tgPzu_2FCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

My Dad took this throughout his chemotherapy (Stage IV colon cancer), and I believe it is one reason that his tumors were 95% dead at the time of removal.

Of course there are no guarantees :(

Cancer sucks.

Rgeurts
March 24th, 2011, 01:14 PM
Thank you for the links MaxaLisa. I'll print the documentation and take it to Dr. Marsden (our holistic vet). I found a study that showed a lot of promise for this particular cancer, but, the same as some of the info you have linked, they are effective on the generalized Malignant Histiocytosis (meaning multiple tumors), but he doesn't have the generalized disease, and no toher tumors they can see. So a lot of the treatments they would normally use wouldn't apply here. They believe there are free floating cells, which is why they think the chemo may be effective (they normally would not use chemo for this type of cancer as it is usually ineffective), but they really don't know as they have never come accross this before. They said there is no way to predict how the cancer will react as nothing about it is typical, and rare to begin with.

How is your dad now? And was the removal of the tumors curative?

chico2
March 24th, 2011, 04:46 PM
Aww Robyn,I am so sorry,I don't think I've heard of anyone who have gone through as much as you,hubby,Nookie-Monster and Thorin..I am so sorry to hear about Thorins diagnosis,is there a possibility they could be wrong?

hazelrunpack
March 24th, 2011, 09:38 PM
What our regular vet said is that Thorin is the best candidate she has seen, with this specific cancer type, for Chemo. She said it works best on the individual cells, but not very well on actual tumors. So we will be starting chemo next week and pray for the best case scenario that they did get it all, or at the very least, the chemo will slow the growth of the cells so that we will have him longer.

This sounds at least hopeful! :fingerscr :pray: :goodvibes: that the chemo knocks out anything they might have missed. :grouphug:

Winston
March 25th, 2011, 07:37 PM
Rguerts :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Goldfields
March 25th, 2011, 07:51 PM
If he was going to have cancer, Robyn, wish it could have been an easy one. Malignant, and rare, and unique just isn't fair. :( Big hugs for all of you.

MaxaLisa
March 29th, 2011, 04:41 AM
Thank you for the links MaxaLisa. I'll print the documentation and take it to Dr. Marsden (our holistic vet). I found a study that showed a lot of promise for this particular cancer, but, the same as some of the info you have linked, they are effective on the generalized Malignant Histiocytosis (meaning multiple tumors), but he doesn't have the generalized disease, and no toher tumors they can see. So a lot of the treatments they would normally use wouldn't apply here. They believe there are free floating cells, which is why they think the chemo may be effective (they normally would not use chemo for this type of cancer as it is usually ineffective), but they really don't know as they have never come accross this before. They said there is no way to predict how the cancer will react as nothing about it is typical, and rare to begin with.

How is your dad now? And was the removal of the tumors curative?

I hope that you will find a magical combination to fight this.

Dad is doing okay, thank you for asking! It will be two years in May, and so far (knock on wood), his cancer markers still remain low. The chemo trigger parkinson's disease it seems though. But I couldn't get him to protect himself throughout chemo. There is a book by Blaylock for humans, and Messonnier for dogs, about how to support a dog through chemo and what supplements are safe and supportive. I found Blaylock's more thorough, but both a good and interesting read. Of course, Dad woudln't do any of those things, but I'm glad he did the most important and took the IP6, which he continues today (as long as I nag him).

barkamama
July 16th, 2011, 07:37 PM
Well, first I found this topic because one of my dogs has what is believed to be a benign histiocytoma. I read earlier never to put steroids on or into the tumor because the dog's body needs to attack the tumor and the steroids mask the threat to the body and it can spread or something.

I wanted to comment because last year my Mom's dog had a very aggressive fibrosarcoma. The tumor came back less that 3 months after a very invasive and extensive surgery. The veterinary oncologist only suggested radiation but said it may only give her 2-3 months. We didn't have any hope or anything to lose, so we tried Neoplasene. The only place I know you can get it is at BuckMountainBotanicals(dot)net. They wouldn't work directly with us, and her oncologist wouldn't touch it, so he worked with my Mom's regular vet. 3 months into treatment she had another CT scan and it was gone. The surgeon in the specialist's office sent it off to some specialist for a second opinion. He sent the first one with the cancer and the extensive roots present, the second one 3 months post surgery (which showed the cancer had come back and started invading the bone) and the one 3 months after that (3 months into treatment with the neoplasene) and the expert/specialist agreed that the cancer was gone.

I don't know how it works, but I'm just saying that if you aren't getting results and your baby is not looking like he will beat the cancer with the treatment your vet recommends, you should contact Dr. Fox.

Good luck, and I hope your sweetie pulls through!

Rgeurts
July 16th, 2011, 10:15 PM
Well, first I found this topic because one of my dogs has what is believed to be a benign histiocytoma. I read earlier never to put steroids on or into the tumor because the dog's body needs to attack the tumor and the steroids mask the threat to the body and it can spread or something.

I wanted to comment because last year my Mom's dog had a very aggressive fibrosarcoma. The tumor came back less that 3 months after a very invasive and extensive surgery. The veterinary oncologist only suggested radiation but said it may only give her 2-3 months. We didn't have any hope or anything to lose, so we tried Neoplasene. The only place I know you can get it is at BuckMountainBotanicals(dot)net. They wouldn't work directly with us, and her oncologist wouldn't touch it, so he worked with my Mom's regular vet. 3 months into treatment she had another CT scan and it was gone. The surgeon in the specialist's office sent it off to some specialist for a second opinion. He sent the first one with the cancer and the extensive roots present, the second one 3 months post surgery (which showed the cancer had come back and started invading the bone) and the one 3 months after that (3 months into treatment with the neoplasene) and the expert/specialist agreed that the cancer was gone.

I don't know how it works, but I'm just saying that if you aren't getting results and your baby is not looking like he will beat the cancer with the treatment your vet recommends, you should contact Dr. Fox.

Good luck, and I hope your sweetie pulls through!

Hi barkamama,

Thank you for posting!! So far he's doing very well. They believe they got the primary tumor. Unfortunately, there isn't one single case of any animal "beating" this type of cancer. It's related to the immune system. We chose not to put him through the staging as it wouldn't change the outcome. The only thing it would do is tell us if there are cells in the marrow/liver/spleen etc. He just had his 4th chemo treatment today and so far is handling it very well and has 2 more to go. He has put on some weight since the surgery/starting chemo, has a great appetite and is playful again :lovestruck: :cloud9:

They have said the best we can hope for, providing he responds well to the chemo, is 18 months (they had originally stated 9, but that is with tumors present). He is almost 12 so that would put him close to 14. We will be having follow-up xrays at 3 month intervals. He does see a holistic as well as our traditional vet, so he is on homeo-pathics/chinese herbs. I went and read a bit on the neoplasene. We have an appt. with the holistic vet a week from Tuesday, so I will definitely be printing some material to take with me. Thank you again for caring enough to take the time and post! :grouphug::grouphug:

Sylvie
July 17th, 2011, 03:46 PM
[ They believe they got the primary tumor. Unfortunately, there isn't one single case of any animal "beating" this type of cancer.:[/QUOTE]

Lets go for that single case :thumbs up :grouphug::grouphug:

Rgeurts
July 17th, 2011, 08:27 PM
[ They believe they got the primary tumor. Unfortunately, there isn't one single case of any animal "beating" this type of cancer.:

[/QUOTE]Lets go for that single case :thumbs up :grouphug::grouphug:[/QUOTE]

Sylvie, I sure hope so!!!!! :grouphug::grouphug:

The good thing about getting the primary tumor (providing there are no additional tumors, which is what they believe in his case) is that the chemo will be more effective and give him some extra time. :)
But beating it would be much better!!

How is beautiful Bree doing?

MaxaLisa
July 18th, 2011, 03:37 AM
Lets go for that single case :thumbs up :grouphug::grouphug:

Count me in on that one too!

hazelrunpack
July 18th, 2011, 09:32 AM
Me, too!