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Even if Pit Bulls are as bad as they say

Kai One
September 22nd, 2004, 11:16 PM
Fist of all I don't for a second believe that pit bulls are as bad as they are being made out to be by the media. However, I also know that convincing the vast majority of ignorant voters out there (which really is the problem) that pit bulls are as safe as any dog is not going to be easy. I think they should focus on how ludicrous the issue is EVEN IF one were to conceed that pit bulls are nothing more than "dangerous and vicious weapons on four legs." My point is that cars are nothing more than " vicious weapons with four wheels," guns are nothing more than "vicious weapons with bits that go click," and knives are nothing more than, "vicious weapons with pointy parts." However, I have never read anything about banning cars, guns, or knives as they play an integral role in our lives. How many robberies happen at "bullpoint," how many murders are committed by dogs (except for that one CSI episode where the lady got her dog to kill people so she could eat them...)? There are plenty of weapons in the world, just look at the crazy US customs agents (don't take that nailfile onboard you TERRORIST!!!), but we realize that it is not the weapons that are inherently dangerous, but the people who would utilize certain objects in a dangerous manner. IF we are to believe that pitbulls shoult be banned because they CAN be used as weapons, then we must remove cars, trucks, guns, nailfiles, bars of soap, socks filled with quarters, oranges, tether balls, baseballs, cricket balls, etc. from our world as well.


-Kev

Copper'sMom
September 23rd, 2004, 07:39 AM
Kai One,
THANK YOU for your understanding especially since you probably don't own a Pit Bull. They are truly wonderful loving dogs if they are with the right owner. Sure people will always be skeptical, but people always pass judgement on things they really don't know nothing about!

THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

chico2
September 23rd, 2004, 07:48 AM
Coppers mom,there was yet another story today in the Toronto Star :( how two Pitties killed a Jack Russel.....
Apparently the owner of the dogs,cried seeing the dead JR,probably also because she knew her dogs were doomed.

Spurby
September 23rd, 2004, 07:58 AM
I have asked the newspapers since they are so interested in reporting dog attacks, when they are going to start reporting them all?? Why only when a couple of breeds(pit bulls/rotties) attack and kill? Like when the GSD attacked and killed a JRT in the park i go too, why didn't that make the papers?? :eek: Or when a dog trainer i know had half her lip bitten off by a whippet?? Or when my cousin got dozens of stitches after a GSD attacked her?? I could go on and on :mad:

chico2
September 23rd, 2004, 08:42 AM
I certainly feel for the owners of the JR,my grand-doggie is a JR,it must have been a horrific experience,but it seem there is a"hot-Line" to the press about pit-attacks.
In my pet-supply store,a Whippet attacked one of the in-store cats and nearly killed it,the cat had 40 stiches..but is now doing ok.
A young man on my street has a Doberman and a Blue Pit-Bull he walks on one double leash,extremly obedient dogs.Then there is a little lady(100lbs if that)who walks,or I should say is being walked by a HUGE Husky.
Yesterday,the young man and his dogs encountered the lady and her Husky,his dogs totally ingnored the Husky,but the Husky was soo excited,the lady had to put the leash around a tree to hold him.She wears a big construction-glove on her leash-hand as not to lose her grip.
I've seen this Husky attack an old Rottie at one time.
The Husky is a hero,he saved the ladies life in a house-fire,but he is very dog-aggressive.

Copper'sMom
September 23rd, 2004, 01:26 PM
Chico 2,

I know, I saw the news story this morning. I wonder about a few things that the media didn't report: 1) How or why did the dogs get loose?
2) What are the owners like?
3) How well were these dogs raised?
I think all this boils down to is irresponsible ownership. The dogs obviously weren't being monitored as to what they were doing. I constantly check on my dog. If I don't here him or see him I look for him. He is with me all the time anyway (even at work!) I take him everywhere and always make sure he is on a leash or tied up but not left alone.

Also another factor is that when there is more than one dog, they are in a pack. Most stories of attacks there are two pitbulls involved. When you have a third dog there's more of a chance of trouble because all dogs have to determine their pack order. There are many possibilities of why this attack happened. Like I said, irresponsible ownership.

My heart goes out to the owner of the JRT. I certainly don't blame anyone for being afraid of Pits, thanks to all of the irresponsible people that own them. And its stories like this that give them a bad name.

I often wonder whether or not my dog will "turn." If he ever does, I can only hope he would turn on me and no one else. This is how much I love my dog.

Loki
September 23rd, 2004, 06:07 PM
I just wish these irresponsible owners would smarten up, already. If they truly love their dog, they should be taking every precaution to avoid a problem.
Espescially now, with all the ban nonsense.
When you own a pit bull, everything your dog does is under constant scrutiny.
This was true before the ban-talk, and it is worse now. Is it fair or deserved? No.
But it is the price we have to pay, for the joy that these wonderful dogs bring us.

I read that the dogs that attacked today, pushed through their screen door. They never should have been left alone to look out the door.
To me, if I'm strong enough to bust a door open, then so is my staffy.
My dog isn't the least bit aggressive, but why chance it?

I know we can't be prevent every incident, but with pitts, there are no second chances. You mess up, your dog dies. To me, that is motivation enough.

mastifflover
September 23rd, 2004, 06:17 PM
I agree with you guys it is not the dogs it is all about the owners and I think as responsible dog owners that we need to report every bite to the paper especially when no pit bull is involved. Then we need to find a sympathetic reporter like the woman that wrote the pro pit bull story and tell of all the other dog bites that nobody else will report. I am not a pit bull owner but I think that everybody must defend the breed because right now it is pitt bulls next it will be another breed and I think that we would all want to be supported if it were our dogs that were taking the heat.

chico2
September 23rd, 2004, 09:31 PM
I don't have any dogs anymore,I used to a long time ago,but I would worry about ANY dog running up to me.
Before joining this Forum,I had all kinds of preconceptions about Pit-Bulls,mostly from the media.
But I have since learned different,from people here owning wonderful Pits and reading the many Pit-sites.
If I owned a Pit-Bull,I would be heartbroken and worried about all the nasty-ness going on and I hope a solution can be found other than a ban,anything that is banned will go under-ground and the dogs will be the ones suffering.
But it looks like MR BRYANT has already made up his mind :(

Spurby
September 24th, 2004, 01:10 AM
I often wonder whether or not my dog will "turn." If he ever does, I can only hope he would turn on me and no one else. This is how much I love my dog.

How old is your dog? Do you own a pit bull? Dogs don't just "turn" on their owners(BIG myth), there are always warning signs to be seen. If you do see any type of aggression towards humans in a pit bull, then you would have to seek professional help asap, as this is not a acceptable or normal trait in this breed.

chico2
September 24th, 2004, 04:43 AM
That is something I have wondered about :confused: Why would a pit-Bull"turn"against their owner or anyone???
I have read Lucky talking about it and Lucky has a beautiful pittie"Chloe"...
Is it in the make-up of a Pit???

Copper'sMom
September 24th, 2004, 09:40 AM
Spurby,

I do own a pit bull (or maybe a look a like). He is 3 and a half years old. He was neutered at six months and acts like he is still 6 months old. He has never showed any aggression towards humans except if I try to cut his nails. He hates that, but the vet has no problems doing it! Most dogs hate having their nails cut so I'm not worried about it. I used to cut his nails when he was a pup, but as he got bigger he didn't like it as much. The vet accidently cut his quick one time and Copper never even flinched!

Anyway I also think that there are warning signs that a dog shows if there is any human aggression. Some people say they can "turn" - whether it happens or not I don't know and I'm not worried about it. If it happens, well I guess I'll be in for a great shock. I have heard that the reason they "turn" suddenly is because 1) they have a chemical imbalance(schizophrenic) or 2) their brains grow to big and starts crushing against their skull and they go haywire. Whether these are true or not, I don't have a clue. I'll ask my vet next week and see what she says.

If my boy starts to show any aggression then I will start to worry and will seek professional help. I don't see any need to worry as he is well raised and under supervision all the time. He was well socialized as a pup and still is as he goes with me just about everywhere. He's quite content to sit in his jeep and watch people come and go in parking lots. And no I don't leave him in a vehicle on hot days - he stays home then!!

I've had many positive comments on how well behaved he is. Some have asked me if he was trained by a professional! That has been the greatest compliment I could ever receive. :D

I LOVE MY BOY!!!

Spurby
September 24th, 2004, 09:54 AM
You sound like a very loving owner! Your dog is very lucky :) You do not need to worry about there brains growing to large and crushing the skull, that is a very big MYTH, as far as chemical imbalances of some kind?, that is very rare, and i doubt you would have to worry about that. He is at the age where his true temperament is showing(mature) so if he is friendly and loving to all people, he won't change, or "turn on you" :)

And yes, many dogs hate getting their nails done!!

Copper'sMom
September 24th, 2004, 10:32 AM
My boy brings me more joy than anything else in the world. When I think of him, he brings a smile to my lips. My friends and family tell me I shouldn't put my dog before everything else in my life, but I can't help it - I love him so much. I hate leaving him for an evening out with friends!! Luckily, I have an understanding fiance that knows how much Copper means to me. The day he dies will be the worst day of my life. I can't even think about it or I'll cry...

If I'm going to be away for more than 4 or 5 hours Copper goes to his grandma's(my mom) to visit!! My mom, her husband and my 90 year old grandma LOVE Copper and he is welcome there any time.

Copper gets birthday parties, christmas presents and of course is dressed up for halloween! He's spoiled rotten but he does know who his boss is! He rarely needs to be corrected of wrong doing except when it comes to chewing his blankey!!

I should train him to be a seeing eye dog or something just so he can come into stores and restaurants with me! Maybe I'll work on that!

I can't wait to put pics up of him. I have tons!! I have photo albums of him all in order from the first day I got him until present. Good pics, bad pics they are all in there!

I could go on and on but I won't!

Akeeter
September 24th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Start as a volunteer walker @ your local shelter. (I assume you can hold a strong dog)
Talk to the shelter staff about the dog that you are going to walk, before you go out. Th :D ey can tell you what to expect. And usually it's nothing.
(If the dog you are walking was dog aggressive, it would not be allowed out of the shelter with a volunteer.)

skunkney
September 25th, 2004, 04:58 AM
I was walking down the street one day and saw a dog attacking a spaniel that was walking with its owner who also had a child in her arms. The woman was doing everything she could to stop the other dog as it was relentless with its attack on her defenceless dog, but it just kept coming. I ran across the street to help, and after chasing the attacker around a couple of bushes, finally grabbed it as it was heading back for another attack. It was a pitbull puppy, probably no more than 4 or 5 months old. The collar had a tag with it's name and the owners number. and I called them to come and pick it up. The owner took me back to his place and gave me 20 bucks for my efforts. I guess I'll never really know, but he seemed genuinely concerned about his pup, as it had escaped out the front door earlier, and he didn't seem like the type who would abuse his dog or raise it to be vicious.

I am a lover of all dogs and animals in general, but I am always anxious whenever I am in the presence of a pit bull, especially if I have a dog with me. Other dogs can be vicious, and can inflict serious harm, but none that rival the destructive power of a pit bull. I truly feel for pit bulls that are mistreated, abused, raised to be vicious, or put down, and I know that the majority of these outcomes are due to the dogs having owners that want nothing more than a dog that symbolises their own need to exude toughness. It is these irresponsible people that should be held accountable, not the dogs. However, these dogs, when on the attack, inflict serious and sometimes deadly injuries, especially if another dog is the target. Much of the time, these very same dogs have been raised well and the owners are quite shocked to hear that their dog has just seriously injured or killed someone.

Cars, trucks, guns, nailfiles, bars of soap, socks filled with quarters, oranges, tether balls, baseballs, cricket balls, etc. dont have fangs, lockjaws, and bodies of solid muscle that are bred for the sole purpose of killing and act on their own using instinct.

There are so many other breeds of dog to choose from. Why would you want to own a pit bull, other than merely to be tough.

Loki
September 25th, 2004, 01:18 PM
... etc. dont have fangs, lockjaws, and bodies of solid muscle that are bred for the sole purpose of killing and act on their own using instinct.

There are so many other breeds of dog to choose from. Why would you want to own a pit bull, other than merely to be tough.

That doesn't describe any pit bulls that I've ever seen.
To answer your question as to why someone would choose this breed:

I adopted mine from the humane society to save a life. Others, who are capable of actually researching the breed( and not just blindly regurgitating what the media reports) , find that the dog's gentle and loving nature is ideal for them as a pet. I know, why let the truth get in the way of a good ole witch-hunt.
I actually believed all the hype about pit bulls years ago, then I learned to think for myself.
By the way, talk to someone at an emergency vet clinic and ask them the kind of damage other breeds of dog are capable of.

Akeeter
September 25th, 2004, 08:07 PM
Every time a dog bite, or attack happens, the breed in question gets hauled over the coals. If they succeed in banning Pits & Staffys, next time it might be Rottis, or Neopolitan Mastiffs, or Malamutes, or Akitas. Or Jack Russells's? LOL!!

To get back to your question, there are times when i wonder why. Not why I have an Akita (& a Lab) but why I bother to work so hard on socializing, Obedience training, neutering/spaying, & schooling my dogs as the years go by. If my dogs are only as good as this week's headlines, then why did i bother to help them become friendly, & useful parts of the community? Why did i spend the money, or take the time?

If over 8 years worth of work comes to nought after 1 bad newspaper story, should we all not just become irresponsible owners? And save ourselves a ton of money & time? :rolleyes:

skunkney
September 26th, 2004, 12:07 AM
If over 8 years worth of work comes to nought after 1 bad newspaper story, should we all not just become irresponsible owners? And save ourselves a ton of money & time?

No, of course not.

This thing is, pit bulls and rotty's are favorites among people who like to be tough. They think they are tough, and they want a tough dog. This is not a very good reason to own a dog. So not only are these individuals stereotyped by the media and society for living on the fringe and exhibiting almost criminal characteristics, but their dogs are stereotyped as well - especially when they go out of control.

Anyway, the reason people are so terrified of pits is that when they DO attack, whether they are from a good home or not, they are VERY difficult to stop. They will keep coming until either it's victim is dead or it is. There aren't many other dogs that will take a bat to the head and keep on fighting.
As far as the ban goes, if I understand correctly, they would also have to ban every crossbreed of the pit bull, and thats alot of breeds. So don't expect this to happen anytime soon. It's not just as simple as banning the one breed.

Akeeter
September 26th, 2004, 02:25 AM
(Although we didn't know that when we bought him) It doesn't say that in 'selecting a puppy books', or in books about Akitas. I guess it's a generalization made from Without. Ie: people who are outside of that breed?
Probably the same for many breeds of dog.

I went with my gut instincts, & decided that the books said 'some' Akitas are dog aggressive. They didn't say, 'All Akitas are dog aggressive'. I think all Akitas & (probably) Pit Bulls are Dominant dogs. But I think there is a big difference between being dominant, & dog aggressive. A dominant dog is confident & usually not the aggressor unless pushed or threatened. An aggressive dog is the aggressor, even when no threat is made.

There 'may'(?) be a higher %age of dog aggro Pit Bulls because of their more recent history as fighting dogs, but I still don't get the human aggression.
Something very strange has happened here. Like poor breeding. Either the dog on human aggro. happened by accident, or maybe on purpose.

Loki
September 26th, 2004, 09:33 AM
The 'tough-guy' thing is a problem with alot of the larger breeds. I'd be willing to bet that if 'Gangsta rappers etc, started using Shihtzus in their videos, we'd be facing a shihtzu crisis right now. :)
Image is not a reason to own a dog.
I'd like to think that these clowns aren't getting their dogs from shelters and responsible breeders. Personally, I'd like to see a mandatory neuter law across the board. Too many dogs are in shelters. Regulate the pro-breeders and stop
the amateurs and criminals.

krdahmer
September 28th, 2004, 01:58 AM
blindly regurgitating what the media reports
I think that statement right there holds the Root of all this 'ban' discussion.
Not only are we (the targeted viewing audience) subject to the spoon fed fear of the media but so are our politicians, whose lackeys encourage to act 'boldly' to snag another sect of voters. (The 'overprotective-quick to blame-media reliant-need to be affraid of everything' group.)

Akeeter-Something very strange has happened here. Like poor breeding.
And hey guess what?! It DIDN'T start with the poor breeding of a dog! It started with the poor rearing of a human.

Banning a breed is so not the answer anyone is looking for, but will anyone care or bother to notice that the road these polititians and media are leading the public down does not have a place for a U-turn when they finally decide "oh wait thats not the result we wanted". With genetics and cloning and all the other scary "advancements" out there, do we really want to start playing God and decide what living being is worthy of life????!!!!! :confused:

I mean where does it go after we clean up the animal species so that only the "desirable" remain? What if they turn on the undesirables in the human poplulation?

Akeeter
September 28th, 2004, 12:42 PM
And BSL won't change that, except for the breeds specified under the BSL.

But I do a slow burn when I see people (idiots) marketting their dogs on aggression, size, & little else to other idiots who are looking for aggression. It's simply a fast track to BSL for that breed.

We can't shut down a kennel, (except by BSL -& who wants that?) if food water, & adequate shelter are provided to the dogs in it. It doesn't matter what mentality is behind the breeding. If they meet basic humane laws, they are legal.

Nothing will ever change things except the mentality of the buyers. If they stop buying dogs for all the wrong reasons, those producers will have no market.

I think one area in the U.S. started a Lemon Law for puppies & dogs. Maybe that isn't such a bad idea along with licensing for dog buyers & owners. A lot of bites could be prevented if owners knew more about the breed thay plan to purchase before they do it.

(But would you not think that a caring breeder should suggest not to buy this or that breed, if the puppy buyer has a house full of pre-schoolers, or has never owned a dog before?)

Copper'sMom
September 28th, 2004, 01:11 PM
It's not only pit bulls who are aren't raised properly, it's all types of breeds. Then these animals go to a shelter and no one wants them because they are mean. People should have to get a license to own ANY dog or animal for that matter. Maybe then we could cut back on the amount of neglect and abuse of animals altogether. Yes there will still be people getting dogs without getting a license, just as there are people driving without a license. The world will never be perfect. Even if they ban pit bulls, people will probably still get them if they can find them. Will veterinarians accept new pit bull clients after this ban? After all, no one is supposed to own one right?

Akeeter
September 28th, 2004, 01:26 PM
I was refering partly to Pits,& my own breed too.

I also saw one of those glossy puppy marketing tools (magazine) that was pushing Eastern European flock guarding dogs on the basis on aggro,- human aggro suggested in the ads. Talk about a fish out of water! 160-200 lb+, long coated dog, bred to protect sheep & farm property being located in downtown anywhere. This Is Not Good! These dogs have never historically even lived in a house! :eek:

BANTHEPITBULL
October 1st, 2004, 08:01 PM
your pitbull might be the nicest dog in the world...but i'm mad at the breed b'coz:

- i'm sick and tired of having to pick my dog up when some off-leash adult pitbull comes running around

- i'm sick and tired of having to carry a hammer to defend myself and my dog when i get in a deathmatch with a pitbull

- i'm sick and tired of the fact that my young cousin got his jacket's hood grabbed by a pitbull and for that he is terrified of all dogs now

- i'm sick and tired of having had to read about cases in the newspapers which involved pitbulls mauling and almost killing humans and small pets

- i'm sick and tired of being terrified by pitbulls. ENOUGH

get some sense now and realise that pitbulls aren't suuposed to be kept in densely populated areas. if you have a 100 acre ranch..and want to keep your pitbulls...sure go ahead....but YOUR RIGHTS END WHERE MINE BEGIN..

the WAR IS ON

:mad: :mad: :mad:

moontamara
October 1st, 2004, 08:05 PM
BANTHEPITBULL, if you want to join a discussion, please READ all of the posts in the thread and respond to what is being written about in the thread. Writing one post about your feelings about pit bulls and then copying and pasting it to every thread at all related to pit bulls is obnoxious, and unhelpful. If you want to get into healthy debate here, go ahead, but no one will listen to you if you don't listen to them, and YOU'RE NOT LISTENING! No one here wants to promote pit bulls, even those who have a pit bull of their own that they love. These people aren't breeding pit bulls or even buying pit bulls from breeders -- they have all rescued pit bulls, and they deserve their opinions to be listened to. So at least READ THEIR POSTS and then respond to what is being written, if you have something to add. I'm not saying you have to agree.

montys_pet
October 2nd, 2004, 11:18 AM
I know in Winnipeg where I live there is a total ban on Pit Bulls and I agreed with it for a long time after reading all the newspaper articles on Pit bull attacks. However I have since met a Pit Bull and his owner and the dog was the most kind hearted dog I have ever been around. So I do NOT agree with a ban any longer. I apoligize for my years spent agreeing with the ban as now I see it's NOT the dogs fault it IS the owners fault and why can't we just ban the owner? Everyone jumps on the dog right away well its NOT the dogs fault train it properly and it won't be aggresive.

krdahmer
October 2nd, 2004, 11:29 AM
Who do we blame for training BANTHEPITBULL? LOL

meggie1425
October 2nd, 2004, 11:53 AM
- i'm sick and tired of having to carry a hammer to defend myself and my dog when i get in a deathmatch with a pitbull
LMAO!! you have GOT be kidding me (and i hope you are, because you would have to be a pretty parranoid person not just about pit bulls, but about EVERYTHING) to carry around a hammer. Seiously, i hope you continue with your posts, because they make me laugh(at your stupidity), thankyou, for making my day!!!

BANTHEPITBULL
October 2nd, 2004, 12:51 PM
if your dog had been attacked by an off-leash full-size pitbull...you would be pretty paranoid too..if you love your dog that is..

go and laugh your heart out, doesn't matter to me....but BSL is surely gonna happen....whatever it takes !!!

LavenderRott
October 2nd, 2004, 01:10 PM
My rottweiler was attacked by a lab mix. Doesn't mean I think that all lab mixes should be banned. It means that the idiot that had that dog on a leash should be responsible for having a "dangerous" dog in a crowded public park.

meggie1425
October 2nd, 2004, 02:10 PM
if your dog had been attacked by an off-leash full-size pitbull...you would be pretty paranoid too..if you love your dog that is..

Dont try to offend me by saying ".. if you love your dog, that is.." Because I dont even have a dog.. . However, i do love dogs (and as soon as i am able to get one, i will) and if YOU were a true dog lover, you would be against BSL aswell.

Mom_Of_Two_Dogs
October 2nd, 2004, 03:14 PM
I also do not have a Pit Bull or other maligned breed. I own a Shiba Inu and a Scottish Terrier. To get right to it, anyone who is a TRUE animal lover is against BSL.

Don't tell me it is only Pits, Rotts and other large and powerful breeds that attack and kill. I know of MANY fatal attacks from small breeds (JRTs, Beagles, etc) and read an article in which a Scottie killed a child who's parents left the dog alone with him/her (a BIG no-no regardless of the size or personality of the dog.) Again, irresponsibility is the problem, NOT a breed issue. This attack didn't even get media attention, I suppose it's because in some people's eyes, this attack was less tragic because it wasn't made by a big or "dangerous" breed :rolleyes:

AN APOLOGY TO BREED BAN ENTHUSIASTS

Iím sorry you are frightened of my dogs and are trying to have them killed because they are pitbulls.

Iím sorry you lack the understanding of this breedís true history, gentleness with people, wonderful temperament, intelligence and behavioral conformation. Iím sorry you wonít read the ATTS stats regarding our breedís true temperament, putting it in the top four for temperament, scoring better than breeds like Golden Retrievers, and ****er spaniels.

I'm sorry that you side with and protect animal abusers by marking the breed of dog, and not the irresponsibility of the owner. Iím sorry that by your logic I could steal a car, run some people over with it and then you can blame the make of car for the accident, as I walk free.

I'm sorry you generalize one breed of dog with one group of people. I'm sorry you can't see the love and determination that many often highly educated, non-criminal and "normal" types of people show towards this breed and the great personal sacrifices that they make to take care of their dog responsibly.

I'm sorry you cannot go into the shelters and see the hundreds of abandoned and abused pitbulls, dying only for the inane "crime" of being born the breed they are. I'm sorry you cannot see the look of disappointment in their eyes as someone walks by their kennel, and refuses to consider adopting them based on an ill educated fear mongering reporter. I'm sorry that you cannot be there when the animal looks at a human for the last time, and in spite of betrayed by all humans they have met, their tail still wags as someone approaches with the syringe of Euthinol.

Iím sorry cannot be there when law enforcement shoots one of your dogs dead inside itís own home in front of the children it mutually loves for simply getting off the dog bed and walking over to say hello with it's tail wagging. I'm sorry you cannot be there to rescue pitbull puppies from a plastic bag in a dumpster, dumped there by someone switching their illegal, and inhumane activities to another, more lucrative breed.

I'm sorry you cannot understand the difference between canine and human aggression, in the way that this breed can. Yes, I'm saying my pitbull is smarter then you.

I'm sorry that the medieval witchhunting genetics of intolerance, generalization, and racism make you feel the need to vilify a breed of dog. I'm sorry that justice, equality, tolerance, common sense are all things you hold dear as a fellow Canadian, and expect from others, but do not yourself offer them towards a pitbull or its caregiver. I'm sorry that you don't take the constructive time to petition changes in the Canadian animal cruelty act, and in the criminal code that would deal out serious punishment to the real animal abusers.

I'm sorry you cannot see the disappointed look on a puppyís face when the people petting it quickly frown, and walk away when you tell them it is a pitbull. I'm sorry you feel the need to terrorize my family and my dogs for crimes we never have and never will commit. I'm sorry you don't have to live in fear of your dogís safety from hysterical, and mentally unstable people trying to inflict all manner of evil upon your dogs.

I'm sorry that you cannot see my breed working in some of the best Search and Rescue groups in the world, saving countless lives each year. I'm sorry our media censors and refuses to print the breed name "pitbull' when in connection with a positive act such as saving a person or child from a burning house, drowning, wild attacking animals, etc. I'm sorry you cannot see the many pitbulls registered as therapy dogs and bringing so much joy to another misunderstood, neglected demographic in our society, the senior citizen.

I am sorry you canít see a pitbull kiss a child, step carefully over a kitten, or play in a sunbeam. I'm sorry you cannot wake in the morning to feel a warm pitbull cuddled next to you in bed, and know that you are their total world, and even if the house caught fire and trapped you, they would stay with you to the end.

But, now that I really think about it, Iím not at all sorry you don't own a pitbull--you do not deserve one.

Rob MacBean
The Mongrel Hordes
Lake Cowichan BC
(Permission granted by me the author to crosspost as long as it stays intact, and with my name on it.)

pittymomma
October 2nd, 2004, 04:33 PM
if your dog had been attacked by an off-leash full-size pitbull...you would be pretty paranoid too..if you love your dog that is..

go and laugh your heart out, doesn't matter to me....but BSL is surely gonna happen....whatever it takes !!!

Actually my dog HAS been attacked by an off leash pit bull, it is very scary and something I dont wish upon ANY dog owner but you are sadly mistaken if you think all pit bulls are like that. My dog that was attacked IS A PIT BULL, she was on leash like she always id and is not a menace to society and as much as I would love having a 100 acres ranch (I would rescue alot more pitties in that case) I dont have that option.

So BANALLPITBULLS if you are so afraid of having an encounter with a pit bull while walking down the strret do yourself and the other residents of your city a favor and STAY THE HELL INSIDE!

I wouldnt want either of my pit bulls to try and lick your hand, with the ignorance you spew.

Do your research then post.

V& the brats

Lucky Rescue
October 2nd, 2004, 09:40 PM
if your dog had been attacked by an off-leash full-size pitbull...

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? My LEASHED PIT BULL has been attacked by TWO "off-leash full-sized" boxers AND a full-sized Labrador Retriever, among others. Did I start screaming that boxers and Labs should be banned?

No, like any person with a modicum of intelligence, I started screaming that brainless idiots should LEASH their dogs if they cannot control them.

Your little dog could have been attack by virtually ANY larger breed. Would you be filled with vengeance and hatred if that other dog had been a Standard Poodle, Lab or Border Colllie? Probably not, since the media has not told you that you should be.

If you could stop ranting for a moment, try and think of this: Do you really believe that scumbags who need a "mean dog" to make them feel like a man will go out and get Chihuahuas if their badly bred, unsocialized and mixed-breed pit bulls are taken away? What do you think will replace the pit bulls? Please try and be sensible and yes - learn something about this breed, since it's obvious you know little other than what the media feeds you.

Kai One
October 3rd, 2004, 01:38 AM
When I started this post I really didn't expect it to become so long, and to become some forum for a bunch of people with little or no cognitive capacity. First

Cars, trucks, guns, nailfiles, bars of soap, socks filled with quarters, oranges, tether balls, baseballs, cricket balls, etc. dont have fangs, lockjaws, and bodies of solid muscle that are bred for the sole purpose of killing and act on their own using instinct.

They may not have fangs, lockjaws, and bodies of solid muscle, they may not act on their own using instint (which they don't anyways... but for your sake I will accept this for now... later on I will attack this assumption) however there are still more fatalities caused every day by these objects than by pit bulls. Cars kill more people every hour than pit bulls do in a month, starvation kills more people per hour than pit bulls do in a year. It doesn't matter what inehrent properties an object carries (my original point) it is the intention of the human who uses said object to achieve some goal (i.e. bodily harm). If you are banning pitbulls because they cause bodily harm (due to the actions of their owner) then one must also ban all other objects that are capable of causing harm because of their use by a person (i.e. the long list of random items). Second, pit bulls are not using instincts when they attack people or dogs, they are using learned behaviour. Instinct is an innate property that the dog would be born with (need for food, need to defecate, neet for society, etc). That being said, aggressivness in pitbulls is genetically predispositioned this is true, but just because a person is genetically predispositioned towards diabetes, or cancer doesn't mean he/she will succumb to this disease. The pit bulls which do attack have had insinctual or genetically bred qualities strengthened by the actions of their owners, or perhaps previous owners and breeders. That being said pit bulls are not bred simply as mindless killing machines, some people genuinely love this breed of dog. Furthermore, are guns not created for the sole purpose of harm and destruction, how about bombs? You may argue they have no instinct and don't act of their own accord, but neither do violent pits. They have some instincts, but they have been abused to the point where their actions are not of their own accard but due to the influence of another. If a person is mentally ill and harms another person they are protected because they were not acting of their own accord. Well an abused dog is very similar to a mentally ill (psychopathic) person. The dog may not even attack, but every action the dog takes is in many ways predispositioned by the environment the animal was reared in. If you want to blame these attacks on anyone blame it upon the owners, or back room breeders. "Ban the pit bull," I am glad you took the time to create a troll account to try and start **** on an internet board, i bet you feel like a big man. However, simply because a pit bull attacks your dog is no reason to ban the dog. It is a reason to sue the owner for damages, and to take legal recourse against the actual cause. What you are in effect saying is (in a different hypothetical situation) if you got hit by a car, you would tell the city to ban all cars (or more specifically the chevy 45 s that hit you), and not sue the driver. A pit bull can be dangerous, but so can a GSD, a Rottie, a lab, a husky, a JRT, etc if they are forced to be by attrocious conditions. And EVEN IF I agreed with the need to rid this city of pit bulls, you must be a complete moron if you think that this will work. I don't know if your head has been up your ass, but any time you ban something that people want you create a strong black market (anyone remember prohibition and its creation of the mafia?). The sheer laws of economics state that when supply is forcefully reduced with demand remaining high, third party producers will fill in the gap for the chances of economic profits. So in essence all this ban will do is remove the pit bulls from the hands of the ownders who are caring (and law abiding) and then create a lucrative black market for the owners who don't care about the dogs well being, and will pay anything just to get one (most likely for "protection"). So instead of a reduction in attackts, this law will only raise the likelihood of that happening, it is simple economics. EVEN IF economics is wrong (which it usually isn't) and this dog is effectivly removed from our cities (which it won't be) then the previous owners of the pit bulls who want vicious attack dogs will go get the next big strong dog they can find, and beat the living ****ing **** out of the dog (strong language i know, but i am passionate about this) until it becomes a killing machine that acts "of its own free will and upon instinct." And thus the problem is not resolved anyways, until we ban all dogs... and thus my hyperbole about banning cars, soap, etc. If hyperbole and sarcasm are foreign terms to you, then you shouldn't ever read one of my posts. That being said, the question is what CAN be done, since I agree that no person should have to pick up their dog, or have relatives scared of dogs. (Oh, one more negative comment, if you feel that your rights are more important than others, and thus when they infringe upon your rights that what you want to be done should be done. Why haven't you considered how your wishes will infringe upon the rights of thousands of people who have done nothing to effec your rights or your life. Stop being so ****ing selfish, and sit and think long and hard) Well the logical solution is to attack the problem (bad owners, breeders, etc) and not the symptom (the pit bull in this case), this is the only way to resolve this issue (and many others I might add). So instead of banning the pit bull, how bout making all pit bull owners take a course in caring for and raising their dogs (or even all dog owners for a matter of face), or perhaps requring liscencing for pit bulls so that owners are at least legally responsible for the actions of their dogs. Also shut down the illegal breeders that pump out these (and other) dogs for profit, and thus do not treat them well, and only help to create more imbalanced dogs. Perhaps better educating children in how to deal with dogs in general. They always say that the person who was attacked did NOTHING to provoke the dog, well acting scared, running, or staring a dog down are all stupid things to do, and they aren't NOTHING. When a society decides to allow a thing (dogs for example) to exist, then steps must be taken in order to assure that all people within that society are knowledgeable about that thing. It is so much easier to blame the pit bull for all these problems instead of looking at ourselves and saying, well what have I done to prevent this? I would rather just point at this dog and say its a killing machine thant to take personal responsability for the actions of myself and my fellow kind, and do something about it. I will just sit and rattle my sabre until something makes me feel better, even if it wont solve the problem. What is happening to the pit bull is no differnt than the persecution of the jews, the blacks, the chinese, etc. It just doens't matter because they aren't considered human (the pit bulls, not the jews, blacks, and chinese in case some of you are confused). But guess what, in the end, all four (pit bulls, jews, blacks, chinese) are persecuted, are sometimes thought of as less than human, are subject to attrocious misdeeds, and are gassed, shot, bombed, and blamed for the actions resulting from their persecution. So if you want to ban pit bulls, take a good long look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself: what the **** have I done lately that has had any positive bearing on this situation? Can I truly say that I or we as a society has exhausted all the rational possabilities in order to solve this problem? Or possibly you would rather just sit back with your moonshine, your shotgun, and ****ing hillbilly wife/sister and talk about how these goddamn pit bulls are killing all this good wholesome innocent white kids, how these goddamn chinese are running over all this poor white kids, how this negroes are forcing drugs on these wholesome white kids, or how these jews are always trying to extort money from good hard working wholesome white folks. And while your at why don't you just joing the ****ing clan, because thats where this type of stupid ignorant bull**** logic will take you. You are the stupid mother****ers that created the situation in the world, and then use it as a justification to attack another country because you don't have the balls and the brains to do anything about it... so yeah **** you (sorry totally off topic, and very rude, and probably in violation of many rules on this board, but honestly i don't give a ****, because I can't tolerate this kind of idiocy.)

Peace

Kai One
October 3rd, 2004, 01:42 AM
Shhit, this stupid board auto asterisks swear words. Though I find it funny that it stars out kocker spaniels... i mean is **** such a bad word? How about vagina, or penis...probably wont be starred out. Anyways just to give you a gist of what the stars in my other post were: p..., etc. Just wanted to make sure that the people I am mad at get the full flavour of my rage. Also what ever happened to free speech? Why can't i write ass **** **** **** and not be censored (I know the answer to this I just think that since we are debating civil liberties, it is ironic to be censored). but still ****er spaniel ? Now that is some ****ing funny.


If i don't get banned, youll hear from me soon

meggie1425
October 3rd, 2004, 08:56 AM
Kai One, i think that they just recently started doing that, i use to be aloud to say c0ckatiel, but now it does this ****atiel. Its kind of good that they did that though, this site is for people of ALL ages, and if a young kid were to come on here looking for information on their pet, well, you get my point... maybe some words shouldnt have been stared out, but its good for the obvious ones.

(i wonder if they only added this after BANTHEPITBULL joined because they knew it would be used alot :D )

LavenderRott
October 3rd, 2004, 09:12 AM
Since this is a public forum, there may be younger people here reading your rubbish. You will find that adults are much more impressed by intelligent conversation and debate then the number of expletives you can manage to inject in one post.

Banthepitbull may hold an unpopular view point with this crowd, but at least he/she generally manages to get his/her point across without such colorful language.

Kai One
October 3rd, 2004, 12:32 PM
What I find amusing is that people probablhy didn't bother to read my long post, but rather focussed on the amount of stars that were in it, or the fact that I swore. I am an adult (thanks so much) and I am much more impressed by the ideas expressed by a person no matter how those ideas are expressed be they vocal, offensive, or boring and drab, as long as the point expressed has merit or the thesis is well defended. Instead, however, you choose to ignore the fact that I even mentioned that I know WHY swears are censored, and rather I was just making a point about how we are discussing civil liberties, while at the same time we are restricting civil liberties with censorship (with a valid reason of course). Furthermore, if you think that a child on the internet will stumble across this board looking for info on a pet, and will learn what f*** is, and it will ruin his life, I think it is time to look at children these days. I mean I learnt how to swear when I was 9 or 10 years old, and we didn't have the internet, so I fail to see why people think that all of a sudden the exposure of kids to the internet will lead in them swearing like sailors, eventhough they probably learned how to swear before they learned how to type (I learned ***** for the first time cuz my dad hit his hand with a hammer). Thank you for all your concerns, and the belief that I truly did not understand the point of censorship, your faith in my intelligence is duly noted. If you think that a persons diction is more important than the underlying message behind their diction, perhaps you still have faith in our political system, since pretty flowery english seems to be the most important aspect of a debate to you. I can assure you that my english can be very impressive, and if I choose to be, I can be eloquent and demure. However, my "colourful" language better expresses the anger that I feel towards the less than fully developed foetal ideas that are expressed on this board. But hey, if you want to discredit an idea just because the word ***** is in it, be my guest, it is your right. I just think that it is idiotic to dismiss the arguments of one person because of how something is said, and not what is said. I never once attacked the diction or syntax of another person's post, and believe me there is enough bad diction and terrible syntax for me to do that indefinately, but rather I choose to focus upon the thesis put forth by such a person rather than focus on their grammar.

Lucky Rescue
October 3rd, 2004, 12:58 PM
I was just making a point about how we are discussing civil liberties

Unfortunately, I think you'll find that your civil liberties do not extend to your ability to curse on internet message boards. This is not a democracy, and the rules clearly state:
Swearing is not permitted on this site which is often used by children of school age who seek advice and information.

If you wish to use "colourful" language on the net, you can easily make your own message board and do so. ;)

Also, people are much more likely to take you seriously if you can discuss issues calmly, and without ranting. Many people are able to strongly get points across without the use of four letter words.

Writing4Fun
October 3rd, 2004, 01:05 PM
Easy there, Kai! Your ideas may have had merit, but no one could make heads or tails of them through the sea of asterisks.

Yes, children may have learned to swear before coming onto this board. However, as adults, we are supposed to lead by example. If we start swearing like truckers, how can we expect our children to grow into respectful adults?

Back to the issue at hand, please!

krdahmer
October 4th, 2004, 12:41 AM
;) glad somebody caught that! :cool:

pitbulliest
October 5th, 2004, 03:38 PM
I think it would be a wise idea to ignore BANTHEPITBULL since he/she obviously has no general knowledge of the breed, not to mention he/she seems like just another message forum troll..

please you guys, don't lower the standards of this forum..instead, stop feeding the trolls..that is exactly what they want :P

mastifflover
October 5th, 2004, 04:10 PM
You are right Banthepitbull is probably one of the most uninformed people I have ever seen on here. This is someone who if they had a brain would be dangerous or more dangerous than they are now. By the way Kai One your swearing does not offend me in the least and yes I read your whole post. People that are concerned about there kids reading this and lerning bad language have obviously never been to their kids school at recess or heard them on the bus after or before school. Yes there are some parents who actually do have parenting standards but I find that rarer and rarer most just sit and watch t.v or play video games and eat supersize meals. What happened to the days when children were taught to respect adults. Boy am I old, I sound like my parents.

heidiho
October 5th, 2004, 06:27 PM
BAN THE PIT BULL,you are a joke,gimme a break,no bad dogs BAD OWNERS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOSER... .............................

melanie
October 5th, 2004, 08:32 PM
i think bans post was the sadest and most disturbing thing i have ever read on this board. it breaks my heart to see the brainwashing effects and fear tactics of the media, red neck society and politicians actually working, so sad.

banthebreed, just a question, im not being mean or anything i just wnat to know. you have indicated you have a dog, and that dog must have been around for awhile to have had thier experiences.

my question is this- have you never ever honestly seen another breed attack or fight?? can you please reply honestly, and let me know have you ever seen a GSD or large dog in action??

i have never ever had a fight with a PB, but plenty of other dogs. dont think all agression is enduced by the owner, my GSD will be very agressive if she thinks i am being threatened and she does this without my encouragement. a man once came out of some bushes and tried to grab me, my girl was with me and boy oh boy did she loose it, she was defending her mum and she jsut wanted to take that guy out and he is lucky she did not. i am telling you this as an example of other breeds agression, have you seen some of the GSD's and rotties out there, boy they cna be more scary that any PB. such as junk yard dogs, often GSD and they are often the most vicious things around, not thier fault but a result of neglect.

i really hope you will sit down and logically go over all of your evidence, tell me what if a GSD grabed your nephews jacket, would you dislike that breed and want it banned??

i understand thouroughly the fear that can be induced by such things like your nephews attack, i have a nephew i love very much to. but it is really important to keep a bit of perspective in there too, i was attacked viciously by toy poodles when i was a child, they tore my face open and i still have scars, i was also terrified of dogs and still have many reservations about dogs i dont know, so PB or poodle, any attack will have negative affects on kids. perhaps instead of feeding fears or similar, help him over come this fear, go to a dog park and have a play with some puppies, that will help him. the most important thing is to show him other nice dogs, it will help him alot...

and the only PB i have ever met was the sweetest little man around and so loving and caring, all wiggling bum and a big sloppy tounge, i just wanted to take him home and cuddle him to pieces, and i would have taken him home if i could have.