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Cranberry for E-coli bladder infection

Rgeurts
February 13th, 2011, 12:20 PM
We got the results of Nookies urine culture and it's a strain of E-coli. I would have thought that was bad, but Dr. Marsden said if he is going to be prone to bladder infections, it's a good one to have! I must have looked at him like "are you crazy?!" because he smiled and said it's the only bacteria that can be treated with Cranberry!! He said the Cranberry binds to the E-coli so it can't attach to the bladder wall and just gets flushed right out. He wants us to give Nookie the antibiotic for a few days just to make sure the infection is under control (he had a very bad infection) and in the meantime we have started Cranberry capsules. Once the weekend is over, we will stop the antibiotic and just give him Cranberry (2 capsules twice a day). Hopefully he will get his full appetite back now and his tummy will settle down :pray: :)

I just thought that was very interesting and wanted to share in case any of you have to deal with it. Regular vets probably would not know that. Why give an antibiotic if you don't have to!

sugarcatmom
February 13th, 2011, 12:31 PM
It's actually a sugar in the cranberry called D-mannose that binds to e. coli (and another bacteria called Klebsiella). So even better than feeding cranberry pills would be to get some D-mannose capsules from the health food store. Not sure about dogs, but using cranberry in cats can have some undesirable side effects (plus the taste factor may make it more difficult to administer). The great thing about D-mannose is that it targets only those specific strains of bacteria, so you don't wipe out all the good flora in the intestinal tract like antibiotics do.
http://www.healingtherapies.info/d-mannose.htm

Rgeurts
February 13th, 2011, 12:45 PM
It's actually a sugar in the cranberry called D-mannose that binds to e. coli (and another bacteria called Klebsiella). So even better than feeding cranberry pills would be to get some D-mannose capsules from the health food store. Not sure about dogs, but using cranberry in cats can have some undesirable side effects (plus the taste factor may make it more difficult to administer). The great thing about D-mannose is that it targets only those specific strains of bacteria, so you don't wipe out all the good flora in the intestinal tract like antibiotics do.
http://www.healingtherapies.info/d-mannose.htm

Thank you sugarcatmom! He didn't explain that, he just said Cranberry lol. I guess in dogs, Cranberry is fine, no ill effects. But I'll ask Dr. Marsden about that just in case there isn't something else in the actual Cranberry he wants Nookie to have. I would have thought Nookie would turn his nose up at it (he's getting quite picky these days). I gave him a capsule with a little bit of yam on it. He broke it open, spit it out and all the powder fell to the floor, but he licked it clean lol :)

hazelrunpack
February 20th, 2011, 07:31 PM
How is Nookie doing, Robyn? :fingerscr Does the D-mannose work for him?

Rgeurts
February 21st, 2011, 01:46 PM
Nookie is doing better now, but he's back on an antibiotic. I think his infection must have been too bad for just cranberry. I noticed his urine smelling very foul Friday morning so I called the vet clinic and they called in another antibiotic. He doesn't have an appetite anymore, so putting him back on the antibiotic is scary. They just wreak havoc on his poor little tummy and it's so hard to get him to eat (I never thought I would say that, he was always so ravenous!). They put him on amoxicillin hoping it will be easier on his tummy. I know he has to be on something other than cranberry though because by early-late afternoon on Friday he was urinating blood and passing several clots. I just hope him and Thorin both get over it soon with no recurrences. :pray:

hazelrunpack
February 23rd, 2011, 02:54 PM
Oh, bummer! :( Thorin has one, too? Have they taken a sterile sample from the bladder? Maybe this is prostate-related? Cole had terrible prostate problems as a pup--they finally diagnosed it because the bladder sample was totally sterile but the free catch had the bacteria from the prostate infection in it...

Hope they both are better soon! :grouphug:

mhikl
February 23rd, 2011, 03:45 PM
Good post SugarCatMom. It is good to find out further info on Cranberry juice. I will check to see if this might be better for my dog, though she hasn't shown any probs that I've noticed with pure C juice.

My dog Sadie got a badder infection, 2nd one, and I knew how expensive testing and drugs would be. My previous dog took well the Cranberry juice and stopped getter her annual infection so I tried it with Sadie. Cleared up in no time.

I would recommend that if you use the juice, purchase pure Cranberry Juice from a health food store or Superstore. It is concentrated and has no added sugar. I give my dog 2 Tbsp in her water two days a week.

She had an operation for struvites about five years ago and she hasn't had a problem since so the Cranberry Juice might be part of the solution.

I wouldn't usually expect a vet to know much about health products so I am pleased to hear of your experience.

Rgeurts
February 23rd, 2011, 04:11 PM
Oh, bummer! :( Thorin has one, too? Have they taken a sterile sample from the bladder? Maybe this is prostate-related? Cole had terrible prostate problems as a pup--they finally diagnosed it because the bladder sample was totally sterile but the free catch had the bacteria from the prostate infection in it...

Hope they both are better soon! :grouphug:

Thank you Hazel :)
Both Nookie's and Thorin's were sterile samples (catherized). They just did another urinalysis on Thorin last Friday (catherized again), said it was very dilute but there looked to be wbc in it and looked like he had an infection. I had them send it off for a culture/sensitivity. They called yesterday and said nothing grew :shrug:
She said it's possible he may not have an infection, which scares me. If he has one, that would explain the dilute unrine. Whe he pee's, it comes out almost clear, like water, which leads me to think he is having kidney issues. We will be going back to the vet for tests this weekend.

Nookie's infection seems to be clearing up, but it has cost him his appetite and he had a very bad seizure night before last, the worst one he's had yet :(
I just wonder if it isn't the antibiotics :shrug:
He would have been seizure free 9 weeks tonight. They had him on Baytril first, which he never should have been on. Then he was switched to amoxi-clav for a few days and is now on just amoxicillan.


I would recommend that if you use the juice, purchase pure Cranberry Juice from a health food store or Superstore. It is concentrated and has no added sugar. I give my dog 2 Tbsp in her water two days a week.

I am actually giving them concentrated cranberry capsules I got from our vet. It didn't work for Nookie. I think his infection was just too bad.

She had an operation for struvites about five years ago and she hasn't had a problem since so the Cranberry Juice might be part of the solution.

I wouldn't usually expect a vet to know much about health products so I am pleased to hear of your experience.

We see a family vet, an internal specialist and a holistic vet. The holistic vet is the one who put them on cranberry :)

He is one of the leading holistic vets and pretty much wrote the book on holistic and chinese veterinary care in North America. Had it not been for LP, we never would have gotten to see him. If it weren't for him (and all the prayers), Nookie would most likely not be with us now :)

hazelrunpack
February 23rd, 2011, 04:21 PM
sigh...Sorry to hear about both your boys, Rgeurts, but especially sorry about the seizure! :grouphug:

You guys sure do need a break! :frustrated: I pray you get one soon! :2huggers:

mhikl
February 23rd, 2011, 04:23 PM
He is one of the leading holistic vets and pretty much wrote the book on holistic and chinese veterinary care in North America. )

You are so fortunate. I'd have to have an arm hanging by a thread before I'd see a doctor or vet. For the most part they are little more than drug pushers and saw bones. Rare has it been for me to meet a MD or VD who new anything about naturopathy, though they will try to wing it. I was told by two vets that CranJuice wouldn't work, yet my Moh (RIP) and Sadie didn't suffered from bladder infections once I started using it. Rant Over.

Does the good Doctor have any published works available.

Now a dedicate Holistic section would make for a good topic to this forum.

Namaste,
mhikl

sugarcatmom
February 23rd, 2011, 05:12 PM
You are so fortunate. I'd have to have an arm hanging by a thread before I'd see a doctor or vet. For the most part they are little more than drug pushers and saw bones. Rare has it been for me to meet a MD or VD who new anything about naturopathy, though they will try to wing it.

Whereabouts in Calgary are you? I happen to go to a fabulous holistic vet in Marda Loop that is certified in acupuncture, osteopathy, TCM and homeopathy. AND she believes in feeding pets a raw diet! :cloud9: If you're ever in the market for a vet I highly recommend her.

Rgeurts
February 23rd, 2011, 05:45 PM
sigh...Sorry to hear about both your boys, Rgeurts, but especially sorry about the seizure! :grouphug:

You guys sure do need a break! :frustrated: I pray you get one soon! :2huggers:

Thank you, I sure hope we do too! For the boys sake, if nothing else... poor little guys. Dr. Marsden (Mrs.) put him on a new chinese formula for childhood epilepsy yesterday. Hopefully that will help :pray: :fingerscr
Neither Dr. Marsden or his wife want to put him back on anti-convulsants unless he has another seizure within 30 days. He is now off the pred completely and down to 1/4 dose of pheno and will be done with that on Friday.[/I]



You are so fortunate.

We truly are, especially considering he doesn't take new patients, animal or human. He took us as a referral from Dr. Jean Dodds. They do a lot of seminars and lectures together

I'd have to have an arm hanging by a thread before I'd see a doctor or vet. For the most part they are little more than drug pushers and saw bones. Rare has it been for me to meet a MD or VD who new anything about naturopathy, though they will try to wing it. I was told by two vets that CranJuice wouldn't work, yet my Moh (RIP) and Sadie didn't suffered from bladder infections once I started using it. Rant Over.

It's ok, rant all you want! I do a lot of that myself. The traditional western vets almost killed Nookie with all the harsh medications. We almost lost him due to internal bleeding, he had to have a blood transfusion. They had him on extremely high doses of prednisone for several months along with azathioprine and several others in between. His poor little immune system was non-existant, his liver was enlarged, liver enzymes extremely elevated and his joints damaged. He stopped growing at 5 1/2 months, so instead of a Giant Malamute, we ended up with a Mini-Malamute. But I can't complain about that, he's so damn cute :lovestruck: :cloud9:
I guess I shouldn't complain about the western (traditional) vets too much. Even though the medications damage him and were killing him slowly, they kept him alive long enough for us to see Dr. Marsden! He's a completely different dog now. He did have a seizure, but as long as it's the only one in a 30 day period, we're ok :)[I]We were very fortunate to have been sent to him. I thank the Lord on a constant basis :)
Nookie plays now, acts like a puppy and is enjoying life. Before Dr. Marsden, he was sleeping 80% of the time (no exxageration). Now we wish he would nap!





Does the good Doctor have any published works available.

Now a dedicate Holistic section would make for a good topic to this forum.

Namaste,
mhikl

If you would like to learn more about him, here are a few links, or you can google him. He travels all over North America lecturing and teaching homeopathy and Chinese herbal. He travels to China and Tibet to continue learning. This is one of the quotes from one of the links below:
"In addition to being one of Edmonton’s most well-known acupuncturists and naturopathic physicians, Dr. Steve Marsden is one of the chief educators of veterinarians worldwide in the use of complementary and alternative therapies. He received one of the first Master’s of Science degrees in Oriental Medicine ever to be awarded in North America, as well as board certifications in Chinese herbology, acupuncture and naturopathic medicine."

http://www.viim.org/institute/doctors/marsden.asp
http://www.naturalpathclinic.ca/bio.html
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4025579/Chinese-Veterinary-Herbal-Medicine-Presented-by-Dr-Steve-Marsden-Intensive

Rgeurts
February 23rd, 2011, 06:03 PM
He (and his clinic) advocate raw as well (for most dogs, but not Nookie). He also helped in formulating Orijen. :)

Chris21711
February 23rd, 2011, 06:19 PM
Oh boy, your fortitude is ginormous Rgeurts. When I read through Nookie's.....(and Thorin's for that matter) ailments I feel overwhelmed....you and Hubby must be exhausted....sigh

rainbow
February 23rd, 2011, 06:44 PM
He (and his clinic) advocate raw as well (for most dogs, but not Nookie). He also helped in formulating Orijen. :)

Well that sure makes me feel better about feeding Orijen. :thumbs up


It is just one thing after another for you guys :grouphug: .......I sure hope things start looking up for you soon. :fingerscr :goodvibes: :grouphug:

mhikl
February 23rd, 2011, 07:03 PM
Namaste, Rgeurts and Sugarcatmon,

Tibet is no.1 on my places to visit. I used Chinese herbs to clear up my lungs. The way the fellow took my pulse was amazing. Since, I have read that a very in tuned practitioner can discover a whole lot more than just pulse and doctors don't even bother with that any more.

Sadie may not have lost weight but her teeth are clean, she seems to eat only what she needs and once when she vomited about ten minutes after eating some raw beef, the meat was obviously being broken down by her digestive juices. In the past she has vomited hours after snorfing kibble and the kibble were barely changed; so I know the BARF is the natural way to go.

The sites I will visit when I finish this post.

Sugarcatmom have sent you a post through this site re the Holistic Doc.

Cheers
mhikl

Rgeurts
February 24th, 2011, 04:03 PM
Oh boy, your fortitude is ginormous Rgeurts. When I read through Nookie's.....(and Thorin's for that matter) ailments I feel overwhelmed....you and Hubby must be exhausted....sigh

Some days it gets really tough, and thank you :grouphug:. I just get so sad when they aren't feeling good. But then they come to you with ears back, sweet little noses pressed against yours and lotsa kisses and it's all worth it :lovestruck: :cloud9: :)

Well that sure makes me feel better about feeding Orijen. :thumbs up

That's what we have Nookie on now because he won't eat the home cooked food and we need him to eat. He's to the point he doesn't want the Orijen now either, so I don't know what to feed him. I'm really hoping it's just the antibiotic :shrug:

It is just one thing after another for you guys :grouphug: .......I sure hope things start looking up for you soon. :fingerscr :goodvibes: :grouphug:

Thank you rainbow :grouphug:
So do I! I just hate seeing them so sad and not feeling well. Nookie has been acting really off since the seizure Tuesday night so he's spending the day at Dr. Marsdens today on seizure watch. I'm just so afraid the meningoencephaltis has relapsed. Hopefully I'm just being paranoid :o


Namaste, Rgeurts and Sugarcatmon,

Tibet is no.1 on my places to visit. I used Chinese herbs to clear up my lungs. The way the fellow took my pulse was amazing. Since, I have read that a very in tuned practitioner can discover a whole lot more than just pulse and doctors don't even bother with that any more.

Every visit Nookie has with them they do acupuncture, chinese pulse and they have an infrared "thingy" (not sure what it's called :o) where they can see hot spots on his body so they know where to concentrate. They are very thorough. I really can't say enough good things about them. There is still a real possibility that we could end up losing our little monster, but they have given us a few months of very happy time with him, time we would not have had otherwise. At least he knows now what it's like to be a puppy and have some quality of life.

Sadie may not have lost weight but her teeth are clean, she seems to eat only what she needs and once when she vomited about ten minutes after eating some raw beef, the meat was obviously being broken down by her digestive juices. In the past she has vomited hours after snorfing kibble and the kibble were barely changed; so I know the BARF is the natural way to go.


Cheers
mhikl

I wish we could have him on a raw diet, but he can't be. Maybe once he's off the antibiotics he will eat the home cooked diet. At least it's better than kibble.

hazelrunpack
February 24th, 2011, 06:57 PM
Neither Dr. Marsden or his wife want to put him back on anti-convulsants unless he has another seizure within 30 days. He is now off the pred completely and down to 1/4 dose of pheno and will be done with that on Friday.

That's great news, Rgeurts! :pray and :fingerscr that he won't need either of those meds again! :goodvibes:

rainbow
February 24th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Thank you rainbow :grouphug:
So do I! I just hate seeing them so sad and not feeling well. Nookie has been acting really off since the seizure Tuesday night so he's spending the day at Dr. Marsdens today on seizure watch. I'm just so afraid the meningoencephaltis has relapsed. Hopefully I'm just being paranoid :o


I know that feeling ....it just tears the heart right out of you. :grouphug:

I hope it isn't the meningoencephaltis returning. :pray: :fingerscr Lots of dogs lose their appetites while on AB's so I'm sure that's why Nookie isn't eating. Can Dr Marsden give hime anything to increase his appetite?

Sending lots of continued :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes: your way. :grouphug: