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2 problems,Vinnie and Chico

chico2
February 5th, 2011, 05:10 PM
First off,Vinnie(almost 9 yrs old) is getting obese:yell:if I did not know better,I'd think he's depressed after Rocky passed,he was his pal..
I know he needs exercise and I try every day to play with him,featherwand,balls whatever he used to like.
He used to like to come outside even in the winter,but now he comes out for 2 seconds and that's it.
When Rocky was alive,he kind of led both Vinnie and Chico outside and they'd run around.
All Vinnie wants to do is,eat,sleep,cuddle and get brushed...how on earth can I get him to lose weight.???

He eats one half 5,5oz can of Wellness or Natural Balance for breakfast,the same at dinner.
Lunchtime,either a few pieces of cooked chicken,or some pieces of Blue Buffalo dry for a treat.

My vet is not happy with him,he might end up diabetic,just like Peppi another white cat I had.
So far,the vet has not suggested any of the prescription diet food,which I really do not want to give Vinnie...but what do I do..
He has to lose weight.
Raw he will not eat...any help appreciated...thank's !

chico2
February 5th, 2011, 05:20 PM
secondly Chico(almost 14yrs),who's licking his hair off,his tummy is now bare as are patches on his back-legs.
This is not new,it started when Vinnie moved in 8 yrs ago,he does not like Vinnie,will not interact with him,but there's no fights.
Chico will hiss if Vinnie gets too friendly.
My vets says it's an emotional problem,not allergies,but it looks really ugly,my old vet gave me some kind of cream and Chicos hair grew back,but my new vet does not like to do that and says just to leave it be,unless I want to get rid of Vinnie and that is not going to happen..

Chico is otherwise the sweetest,will cuddle anyone that comes to the house,loves to be on our laps a real love-bug.
Is there anything maybe something homeopathic to get his hair to grow back,other than a foul tasting creme:shrug:

Love4himies
February 5th, 2011, 05:29 PM
You know, chico, I think cats are just like humans, some have a higher food drive than others. Changing from a quality canned to a raw diet is not going to make a difference in the food drive that a cat has, otherwise Sweet Pea and Rose would not be obese.


Puddles eats about half of what Vinnie eats and maintains her perfect 8 lbs. Jasper eats double of Puddles (or what you feed Vinnie) and maintains his perfect 12 lbs, however, Jasper is a very hyper kitty. So I am thinking because Vinnie is not as active of a cat, he should be fed about what Puddles eats, half a 5.5 oz can per day. If he doesn't like raw meat, then mixing it with his canned food is not so bad, he won't eat so much :D. You get to control the fat content in the raw, so you have the choice to feed only low fat chicken breast. The only issue would be the calcium to phosphorus ratio if he is not getting any bones. I guess you could purchase the additives to raw meat that can be purchased online.

The only way I can in somewhat control Sweet Pea and Rose's weight is to feed Jasper and Puddles their main meal at night and keep them separated from SP and Rose.

chico2
February 5th, 2011, 05:39 PM
L4H,I know what you mean,Chico eats about the same as Vinnie,but he's nice and slim,he also gets the zoomies 5 times a day..:laughing:
I am going to try less canned and add chicken chopped up,they don't eat sliced or chunky food,only pate.
They like cooked pieces of meat,but only 3 or four pieces.
Vinnie also does not drink often,so I always add warm water to his food.

They are both due at the vet beginning of April,Chico for a senior Wellness Test and Vinnie for bloodtest and probably urine-test...if something is wrong,I want to nip it in the bud. Thank's L4H.
Also when spring arrives(if)he will be a lot more active,being outside more,so we'll see..

pattymac
February 5th, 2011, 06:57 PM
I recently bought one of those laser toys for Noella to wear off some of her kitten energy. Well Coco thinks it's great too. I don't know how old he is exactly, but it sure gets his butt moving, one of the few things that does. He's one of those cats that likes to eat too. With mine they split a can of Natural Balance between the 3 of them and have Now Senior crunchies when they want them. Noella has kitten crunchies, so of course the boys have to have some of those too but she gets 1/2 can of Natural Balance for herself...well mostly..I usually find either Bobee or Coco helping themselves.

I was going to suggest a kitten to liven things up for your older boys!! Bobee is finally getting his...she loves to tackle him.

hazelrunpack
February 5th, 2011, 08:27 PM
Do they eat it their meals all at one sitting, chico? Can you just give Vinnie less food? Or is it left out so they can nibble at it all day?

TeriM
February 5th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Chico I would probably cut back Vinnie by at least a quarter can of food (maybe even a third every second day). My Fred is a big cat (Maine Coone mix about 15-16 lbs) and Desi is quite petite (about 8.5 lbs). I feed both a 1/4 can each Wellness or Natural Balance in the morning and then they each get about 65g of raw in the evening. Fred generally gets a slightly bigger half then Desi. Some days they get canned at night and those days they each get a 1/2 can. Total for the day would only be 3/4 of a can plus a few pieces of kibble as a nightime snack. Both my cats are at very healthy weights.

Can you pick up Vinnie and take him out to the end of your yard and make him walk back to the house? If you do that a bunch of times in the day it might get some exercise in for him :shrug:.

Desi is also slightly neurotic and will put her hair out when she is stressed but has never been to the degree that Chico has :(. I will have a look in my homeopathic reference book to see if I can see anything. I have used traumeel ointment on rashes etc and that has worked well.

Good luck :goodvibes:.

sugarcatmom
February 5th, 2011, 11:28 PM
I vote for giving Vinnie less food. Decrease it gradually though. Start by subtracting about a tsp per meal for a week, see how that goes, then maybe a couple tsp less for a few weeks, and have a weigh-in (a baby scale would be most accurate, or pop him on the vet's scale once a month if that's not excessively traumatic). If you can, eliminate the kibble treats completely. Even just a few can add quite a few calories. Substitute small pieces of freeze-dried chicken. Adding a couple tsp of finely chopped cooked egg-white to his food might also help him to feel fuller on fewer calories if he starts acting hungry with the reduction in canned food.

Think about supplementing his food with L-carnitine. I'll see if I can dig up some articles on it, but it's supposed to increase metabolism and help with weight loss. It's often added to those crappy prescription diet foods that vets sell.

To be honest, trying to increase his exercise at his age isn't likely to do much for weight loss unless it's combined with an adequate food reduction. Not that you shouldn't try to get him moving a bit, but some of that extra weight needs to come off first before he's going to have enough energy to want to be more active.

As for Vinnie's over-grooming, is he causing any damage to the skin? If not, I'd be inclined not to worry about it too much. Aztec is also a belly-licker, ever since his brother died 6+ years ago. It started as a calming behaviour during that stressful situation and has now become habit even though the original stress is gone. I have heard of acupuncture helping some OCD cats, and flower essences can also be useful: http://www.spiritessence.com/?action=product&act=list&cat=species&val=cats

Tundra_Queen
February 6th, 2011, 04:02 AM
chico, how about if u tried feeding Vinnie 5 oz of canned food twice a day instead of 5.50z twice a day? Also, U have a cat tree still? Put his dish up on the tree...then when he goes up there,,,move the dish down to the floor,,,when he goes to the floor move the dish back up again. Do that a couple of times each time u feed him and that will give him some exercise. Maybe also try adding a bit more water in with his food,,,that way he will fill up faster with less calories.

I don't know what to tell u about chico and his licking. Do u have any cat puzzle boxes? Maybe getting one of thos would keep his mind occupied and off his licking?

chico2
February 6th, 2011, 11:39 AM
T-Q,oh no,Vinnie and Chico split a 5,5oz can twice daily..and I actually have 3 cat-trees,Vinnie only uses it for his nails.

SCM,sorry I don't know how to do quotes...:wall:
I will reduce his food slowly and try to add some egg-white and look into the L-carnitine as in where I can find it...anything to try to get him down to 15-16lb's,he is a large cat,but the last time at the vets,he was 18lb's and I am afraid to find out how much he is now.
The freezedried chicken is a no go,only pieces of cooked chicken will do..

About Chicos fur,there is never any rash or sores and there is always fur growing back,he drinks water from a dripping tap(just started that)and sometimes after that,he'll vomit hair. Thank you:cat:

TeriM,Today they both walked around the pool twice:laughing:Vinnie is not pickuppable(new word)he is too heavy for me.
Traumeel? Maybe worth a try... Thank's

Pattymac,I have a couple of laser-pointers,but only Chico is interested,he climbs the walls to get to it:laughing:
A new kitten,I would love it,but no:(
Things are a bit better between C/V,Chico will sniff Vinnies butt and only hiss a little,so maybe one day they'll be buddies,but it's been almost 9 yrs.

Hazel,no they don't,cats usually eat a bit and come back to it.
I just always have to watch that Vinnie does not finish off Chicos,they usually eat in different places.
Thank you everyone:grouphug:

sugarcatmom
February 6th, 2011, 12:20 PM
About Chicos fur,there is never any rash or sores and there is always fur growing back,

Oops, sorry - meant to say Chico and his over-grooming, not Vinnie! (I wuz tired :o)

I'll see what info I can find for you about L-carnitine for Vinnie.

sugarcatmom
February 6th, 2011, 02:22 PM
Found some dosing info for the carnitine: http://www.thepetcenter.com/article.aspx?id=3401

One of the reasons for the success of a high protein diet for feline weight reduction is the importance of an amino acid called Carnitine. Carnitine is present in good quantities in muscle tissues, but found in miniscule amounts in vegetable matter. This amino acid plays an essential role in the uptake of stored fat reserves and conversion of fat by the liver back to into glucose. The ability to mobilize fat tissue to be used as glucose for energy (and for subsequent weight loss to be accomplished) requires Carnitine in the process. Supplementing a cat’s diet with L-Carnitine in amounts approximating 250 to 500 mg per cat per day will aid in mobilizing fat into glucose and will improve the health of a cat that is on a weight loss program.

Similar amounts are found at this link: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/zorans_article.pdf

One aspect of weight loss that has received a great deal of attention in recent years is the use of carnitine supplementation in an attempt to enhance weight loss. In 1 study,20 investigators revealed that supplemental amounts of carnitine in diets formulated for cats increased lipid metabolism despite an apparent lack of evidence of a carnitine deficiency in those cats. Furthermore, it decreased the amount of time required to achieve safe weight loss in those cats. Oral administration of carnitine (250 mg/d) is recommended for obese cats undergoing weight loss.20,21,23

I recommend looking for NOW Foods L-Carnitine (http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/ProductsAlphabetically/M002896.htm) in 500mg capsules at your local health food store.

ETA - Start with a small amount though, like no more than 1/8th of a cap twice a day in case it has a taste to it that Vinnie doesn't like. Gradually work up to 1/4 or 1/2 cap twice a day.

rainbow
February 6th, 2011, 03:14 PM
Chico, I don't have anything to add as I have my own plump kitties here. :o

But, maybe I can help you with this ....


SCM,sorry I don't know how to do quotes...:wall:


If you want to quote one person click on the Blue Quote icon in the bottom right hand corner of their post. If you want to quote more than one person click on the quote marks icon that is right beside it instead. You can quote up to four posts and then you have to click on Reply.

chico2
February 6th, 2011, 05:05 PM
Thank's SCM,I know it wasa typo.
I will look for L-Carnitine.
We weighed Vinnie and he weighs a whopping 20lb's:yell:
This afternoon,I gave them nothing only a couple of small pieces of chicken,but I moved their dinnertime from 6:30 to 5:30,they eat breakfast at 6;30 am and it's a long day without any food:(
It is very difficult to deny Vinnie anything,he looks at me with his beautiful eyes and then at his empty dish,boy it will be hard.:(but has to be done..

Thank's Rainbow,I'll try to figure it out:thumbs up

sugarcatmom
February 6th, 2011, 09:23 PM
I moved their dinnertime from 6:30 to 5:30,they eat breakfast at 6;30 am and it's a long day without any food:(


Can you divide up his food into smaller meals, given more frequently?

Dee-O-Gee
February 6th, 2011, 11:06 PM
Passing along :pray::pray: :goodvibes::goodvibes::goodvibes: and :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Chico and hope something positive can come about this.

chico2
February 7th, 2011, 08:30 AM
SCM,yes I could,since we are home all day..
This morning he ate about 3/4 of his food,Chico ate maybe half of his.

That is part of the problem,I don't usually check who's finishing it off,probably Vinnie,but that's stopping now.
I am really seriously worried about Vinnie,but there is no quick solution,I know it will take time for him to lose weight safely.

catlover2
February 11th, 2011, 02:32 PM
secondly Chico(almost 14yrs),who's licking his hair off,his tummy is now bare as are patches on his back-legs.
This is not new,it started when Vinnie moved in 8 yrs ago,he does not like Vinnie,will not interact with him,but there's no fights.
Chico will hiss if Vinnie gets too friendly.
My vets says it's an emotional problem,not allergies,but it looks really ugly,my old vet gave me some kind of cream and Chicos hair grew back,but my new vet does not like to do that and says just to leave it be,unless I want to get rid of Vinnie and that is not going to happen..

Chico is otherwise the sweetest,will cuddle anyone that comes to the house,loves to be on our laps a real love-bug.
Is there anything maybe something homeopathic to get his hair to grow back,other than a foul tasting creme:shrug:

I had a girl that was very much like Chico....whenever she got stressed (whether it was because I had too many cats at the time) or there was a cat she didn't get along with, she licked her tummy bare too, as well as the inside of her hind legs. I had her for 18+ years, and this overlicking would happen from time to time. It did not ever happen when she was pregnant or nursing her kittens. After doing the vet route with creams, etc. we decided it was behavioural. Unfortunately this overlicking becomes obsessive and a habit. The only thing that cured my girl was when I had fewer cats. Four girls she could tolerate and she got along well with them all, and she stopped her overlicking which I think was really a response to stress, and like smoking, she found it a calming action. Since Chico really does not like Vinnie, I think I would give Chico more alone time by himself where he feels save, or another cat he likes (if you have one). But do give him lots of attention as well. It may just calm him down. I don't know of any homeopathic remedy for this. You could try and break the licking "habit" by putting some lemon juice on his tummy. Most cats don't like citrus. Good luck!

Another thing you might try is putting a tube top on him, so that it covers the tummy area...the only thing is he might start licking his legs.

chico2
February 11th, 2011, 05:12 PM
Catlover2,thank you for your reply and don't worry,Chico is a love-bug,gets all kinds of attention.
It's not bad between Chico and Vinnie,since Vinnie is not aggressive,they can sit beside each other,even sleep almost touching.
But if Vinnie feels playful and tries to chase Chico,then there will be hissing and Vinnie stops right away.
But like you say,it's a habit that started when Vinnie arrived 8 yrs ago.
I only have the 2 cats right now,my Tabby-Boy Rocky passed in september last year.:(