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Puppy Mills – Not “Just” a Canadian Problem - graphic images

14+kitties
February 3rd, 2011, 06:11 PM
While looking for some Canadian mill numbers the other day I came across tons of websites about puppy mills/puppy farms in other countries. It would seem while we are indeed inundated by these horrific places we are far from being the only country thus encumbered. It would behoove us all to start working together to try to solve this problem rather than point out one country as being “better” than another.

These sites are not always the best as far as numbers but it seems some countries want to try to keep their dirty laundry under wraps. Some contain very graphic images. Please note they are not all bad news sites. Some actually show that progress, however slow, can be made. There are many many more sites. I just could not bear to look at more.

U.S.
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Investigating-Puppy-Mills/2

http://www.okpuppymilltruth.org/

Canada
http://cfhs.ca/athome/puppy_mills

http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/canadian_laws.htm

Africa
http://allafrica.com/stories/201011060005.html

http://www.showdogs.co.za/hotspot/caveat_emptor/caveat_emptor.htm

UK
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hopeuk/puppy_farm_capital.htm

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/images/pdf/factfiles/puppy.pdf

China
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/editorial/taiwan-issues/2011/01/04/286127/Ending-animal.htm

Australia
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/issues/companion_animals.php

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/580080/puppy-mills-under-fire-for-cruelty

Russia
http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/Russia-puppies.htm

Mexico
http://doggiesandstuff.com/2010/10/31/mexico-mo-puppy-mill-rescue-mission-part-1/

New Zealand
http://www.3news.co.nz/Inside-puppy-factories---60-Minutes-producers-blog/tabid/755/articleID/162390/Default.aspx

mastifflover
February 3rd, 2011, 06:24 PM
Sad isn't it but we are not the worst not that it really matters. This is a world problem

BenMax
February 4th, 2011, 07:14 AM
14+K...Quebec is known to be one of the worst in Canada. I found out that even Anima Quebec does not even know where they are all located nor do they know of an actual number of mills. I found out that some municipal pounds (that euthanize BTW) are allowed to hand out breeding licenses and not register these licenses with those that are 'suppose' to enforce a faulty law to PROTECT our animals.

Every single country on this planet is tainted. Even those countries and their people who refuse to recognize that they themselves have this problem.

Rose color glasses must be on sale all over the place. Denial is death to all those animals that are suffering day in day out.

Love4himies
February 4th, 2011, 07:59 AM
This is so very sad :(. I wish that people would just stop and close their eyes before buying a puppy and imagine what horrid conditions their mom and dad are living in. Our world has turned so materialistic, that owning a 2K "Cockapoo" has become a status symbol :(.

Just imagine what rescues and shelters could do if those people spend $200 on a shelter pet and donated the other $1800 to them. The money could be used for educating the public and lobbying the gov'ts for changes to the laws.

14+kitties
February 4th, 2011, 10:34 AM
Just imagine what rescues and shelters could do if those people spend $200 on a shelter pet and donated the other $1800 to them. The money could be used for educating the public and lobbying the gov'ts for changes to the laws.

Wouldn't that be a great thing!!
From what I was reading doing this search the US has somewhere in the neighbourhood of 10,000 mills. :( That is disheartening. We are not nearly the worse but it would be so nice to be the best, wouldn't it? I wish we could elect politicians who would be willing to take a stand and make some changes. Maybe it's time we start asking them before we vote what their plans are regarding animal welfare and then keep on them after being elected until they do something. Make them follow through on their campaign promises.

krdahmer
February 4th, 2011, 11:36 AM
:(:frustrated: so sad that even after all the education out there now...all the celebrity plugs...people are still buying their pets and supporting these *******s!

Goldfields
February 4th, 2011, 06:52 PM
The Aussie links are interesting, one starts 'Puppy Mills' under fire for cruelty, with the date beneath that being Saturday June 14th 2008, yet it's supposedly today's paper. :shrug: It doesn't say much anyway.The other quotes figures from 2006. From the latter .....

Only about 5% of cats are reclaimed from pounds and shelters by the owners; whereas up to 70% of dogs are reclaimed.

They were our figures, up to 70% of dogs reclaimed, so are your figures that good? Ours could be even better now because it's a problem they are working on in lots of ways. I did say that it doesn't seem as big a problem here, not that I didn't feel sorry for people living with an overpopulation problem, or for the animals involved.

I wonder if I am right in thinking more cats end up in pounds than dogs for a start? How come all the anger seems directed at dog people? Cats, let's face it, breed like rabbits, so shouldn't cat owners be even more responsible and careful. Some greenies say here that cats(and foxes) should never have been allowed into this country, for all the damage they have done to native fauna. The climate suits the feral cat, as it did the rabbit and fox, we have too many of all of them. But in suburbia I wonder how many people ever get told how early their kitten would be able to breed, I know I wasn't when we got Pheobe, who was desexed ASAP after I heard the awful noise even a Persian in heat can make. (My sympathy to those who own Siamese.) :D If you are left to assume the first heat could be as late as a dog's you'd have an unwanted litter. More education is needed I'd say. How many would dump their cat during that first heat?

Am I imagining it or are a lot of your strays in Canada big dogs? This was another good point from that second article.

Too many of some breed types

The issue with dogs is different. In many areas, there are too many of some breed types, particularly the working dog and larger dog breeds for the numbers of suitable homes available in urban areas.

Surely that must apply in your country as well as mine? I'm just one person but personally, much as I love some of the big breeds, I don't want anything above the medium height like my cattle dog, a Kelpie, a sheltie rather than a collie etc. regardless that I live in the country. I consider medium dogs a convenient size to put in a vehicle, to pick up, to pay vet and food bills for.

I'll take a look at the other links but not today, I think it might be my birthday :D , (checking the date) oh yes, so time out from the world problems.

BenMax
February 4th, 2011, 07:00 PM
Well I have a siamese and an oriental red...sterilized so I don't know why you would have sympathy for me having these two breeds. :shrug: Adopted at a shelter BTW.

Your comments about cats is quite worrisome actually. Sad that your country does not put as much value on a cat and considers them a nuisance. The nuisance world wide is naive, ignorant people who do not SPAY and NEUTER their pets.

I highly doubt that your country is any different than any other. If you start digging and asking questions you will find that there is blemish in every corner of every country. You need to take the initiative to ask the right questions and keep on digging. In doing so you will be surprised with the amount of garbage you will uncover.

Goldfields
February 4th, 2011, 07:36 PM
Adopted, already sterilised I am guessing, BenMax? I think the Siamese is noisier than a Persian at any time, I can only imagine one in heat. LOL.

Cats are not just a nuisance here, they might even be termed vermin in the outback, i.e. they shoot them. We have a terrible problem with them killing native animals and birds. These are feral cats though, not strays. A lot of Councils now have curfews on urban cats for the same reasons though.

You can believe what you please about our country, that's your perogative.

rainbow
February 4th, 2011, 07:42 PM
Adopted, already sterilised I am guessing, BenMax? I think the Siamese is noisier than a Persian at any time, I can only imagine one in heat. LOL.

Cats are not just a nuisance here, they might even be termed vermin in the outback, i.e. they shoot them. We have a terrible problem with them killing native animals and birds. These are feral cats though, not strays. A lot of Councils now have curfews on urban cats for the same reasons though.

You can believe what you please about our country, that's your perogative.


http://bestsmileys.com/mouthzippedshut/2.gif

aslan
February 4th, 2011, 07:49 PM
http://www.wheredopuppiescomefrom.com.au/

yup isn't a problem there,,they just make them legal.:(

Etown_Chick
February 4th, 2011, 09:09 PM
As horrible as the mills are,people still buy from pet stores, online, kajiji, etc...grr!
And cats, ya, they are sure treated as disposable, which I find despicable.
GAH! HUMANS!

*gives Scruffy an extra snuggle*

14+kitties
February 5th, 2011, 12:08 AM
Man, it's hard to have an iggy list when peeps are quoting.;)

http://bestsmileys.com/mouthzippedshut/2.gif

:thumbs up Love the little zipped mouth guy rainbow.

Current enough?

http://video.news.com.au/1766866633/RSPCA-puppy-farm-seizure

http://wn.com/openrescue1

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/media/in_the_news.php?article=1780

Oh heck, I'll just post all of the google search. It's easier.

http://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C1GPCK_enCA348CA349&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ppy%2Bfarms%2B2011+-+Australia

I repeat - It would behoove us all to start working together to try to solve this problem rather than point out one country as being “better” than another. Please note they are not all bad news sites. Some actually show that progress, however slow, can be made.

This thread was not started to cause trouble. If that were the case I would not have bothered posting sites from other countries. Rather I was trying to bring to light the fact that this issue is not only in our country but in fact world wide. It would seem everyone has jumped on the bandwagon as far as making a fast buck for doing no work. Where did it originate? It's hard to say. But maybe we should start to work on places where it can end. Maybe it's time we all take our heads out of the sand before we start choking on it. JMO

Sorry if I'm not making much sense. I've been up and working for a long time today. Now it's time to toddle off to bed. :o

BenMax
February 5th, 2011, 06:13 AM
Adopted, already sterilised I am guessing, BenMax? I think the Siamese is noisier than a Persian at any time, I can only imagine one in heat. LOL.

Cats are not just a nuisance here, they might even be termed vermin in the outback, i.e. they shoot them. We have a terrible problem with them killing native animals and birds. These are feral cats though, not strays. A lot of Councils now have curfews on urban cats for the same reasons though.

You can believe what you please about our country, that's your perogative.

That is what I said...adopted in shelters where it is MANDATORY to have the animals spayed and neutered PRIOR to taking them home. No comment on the noise animals make....it appears humans make far more noise rather than the sweet sound of animals.

Humans are the nuisance Goldfields..not the animals. Again one should ask why so many ferals and strays...again my response is the same. Had people taken care of properly vetting their pets then you would not have this problem in Australia now would you?

So shooting is ok in Australia? Well looks like your laws are just as pathetic as ours. I was beginning to wonder.:shrug: I was starting to think that where you are is much better than were I am...I was wrong it appears.

Love4himies
February 5th, 2011, 07:12 AM
A lot of Councils now have curfews on urban cats for the same reasons though.



I am wondering if mandatory spay/neuter would be a better solution than curfews. I am NOT advocating for cats to be allowed to run loose, unsupervised at any time of the day mind you.

As for the feral cat population in areas of milder climate, I am sure it is a problem worldwide. Such a preventable problem too.:(

Love4himies
February 5th, 2011, 07:18 AM
That is what I said...adopted in shelters where it is MANDATORY to have the animals spayed and neutered PRIOR to taking them home. No comment on the noise animals make....it appears humans make far more noise rather than the sweet sound of animals.
hallelujah, sister. I would much rather listen to cats/dogs/birds than the 4 wild children that live across the street from me


Humans are the nuisance Goldfields..not the animals. Again one should ask why so many ferals and strays...again my response is the same. Had people taken care of properly vetting their pets then you would not have this problem in Australia now would you?
Exactly! People allowing their pets to breed!


So shooting is ok in Australia? Well looks like your laws are just as pathetic as ours. I was beginning to wonder.:shrug: I was starting to think that where you are is much better than were I am...I was wrong it appears.

TNR would be a much better solution. It would be so nice if only gov't would be on side with this. Wonder how much of their "entertainment" budget would have to be decreased to set up such a program :rolleyes:. With grants going to volunteer organizations, probably not too many of their 4K lunches would have to go.

Love4himies
February 5th, 2011, 07:20 AM
As horrible as the mills are,people still buy from pet stores, online, kajiji, etc...grr!
And cats, ya, they are sure treated as disposable, which I find despicable.
GAH! HUMANS!

*gives Scruffy an extra snuggle*

Yes, and BYB's are becoming smarter so they look like rep breeders.

BenMax
February 5th, 2011, 08:44 AM
Yes, and BYB's are becoming smarter so they look like rep breeders.

I dealt with one case where a reputable breeder sold a dog and somehow this dog was found in the meninite (sorry spelling) community used for yes.....breeding. This is in the US.

So - there are some very well bred dogs in the hands of the millers.

chico2
February 5th, 2011, 09:31 AM
I don't have much to say,that has not already been said.
Closing up stores who sell puppies/kittens(like here in Oakv)only put a small dent in the"business" of Puppy-Mills and BYB's,there are thousands of other ways,Internet-Sites,the worst.
I have no hope that people will change,if they can get a"pure-bred"dog for $500 rather than $3.000 from a reputable breeder,many will go the cheaper way.
An example,a friend of mine bought an Aussie Shepperd(sp?) for $500,only to later find out she's a mix.


Goldfields as you know,feral,stray cats are due to ignorant people,the unfortunate cats are the victims.
We who's love for our cats is no less than that for a dog,hope the message about spay/neuter is getting out there,we are getting more cheaper s/n clinics,which is a huge step in the right direction,but so much more needs to be done.


I actually saw a documentary about Aboriginal people in Australia,where they showed a group of women clubbing cats to death.
Feral cats were a food-source.
Now,I don't see it to be any worse than Canadians clubbing seals to death,which is only for $$$$.

Love4himies
February 5th, 2011, 12:38 PM
I dealt with one case where a reputable breeder sold a dog and somehow this dog was found in the meninite (sorry spelling) community used for yes.....breeding. This is in the US.

So - there are some very well bred dogs in the hands of the millers.

:(:( You know it is all about the almighty dollar and supply and demand and of course, the "status symbol" of owning "such and such of breed" :rolleyes:

14+kitties
February 5th, 2011, 12:46 PM
I dealt with one case where a reputable breeder sold a dog and somehow this dog was found in the meninite (sorry spelling) community used for yes.....breeding. This is in the US.

So - there are some very well bred dogs in the hands of the millers.

For such a God fearing community the Mennonites are one of the worse animal abusing groups in existence. What they do to their horses is barbaric. They are on the plow from sunup to sundown in some areas. When not on the plow they are the mode of transportation. How many of us have seen the buggies going down the side of the road with very tired looking horses pulling? It has long been known they have a large number of puppy mills and yet what is being done? So sad.

Chris21711
February 5th, 2011, 12:59 PM
It has long been known they have a large number of puppy mills and yet what is being done? So sad.

As long as they are within the guidelines of the Law 14k....nothing else can be done.

Love4himies
February 5th, 2011, 03:02 PM
For such a God fearing community the Mennonites are one of the worse animal abusing groups in existence. What they do to their horses is barbaric. They are on the plow from sunup to sundown in some areas. When not on the plow they are the mode of transportation. How many of us have seen the buggies going down the side of the road with very tired looking horses pulling? It has long been known they have a large number of puppy mills and yet what is being done? So sad.

There is one such community just inside the US border here and I just about cried seeing a poor horse going into town in the cold poring rain so the man could go shopping at Lowes. He parked his horse and buggy in the parking lot and that poor horse was soaking wet :yell: (I saw him on a side road while we were on the interstate about 20 miles from Lowes, then saw the horse and buggy parked at the Lowes lot when we come out of the store). I don't recall seeing any deer on the way because they were tucked away deep in the woods under cover.:frustrated: Point being, these poor animals don't get a chance to seek shelter while roaming free animals do.

chico2
February 5th, 2011, 04:48 PM
Are the Mennonites above the law?
Is there no-one ever reporting them,for puppymills and animal-cruelty?
Poor horses,would break my heart:(

I remember seeing a puppy-mill raid once that were run by Mennonites..:evil:

cassiek
February 5th, 2011, 07:01 PM
Thank you for posting this 14+. It certainly is a problem around the world.

I am going to post this on my notes section on FB in hopes of educating even at least one person... IMO that in itself is worth it.

Goldfields
February 5th, 2011, 09:29 PM
Goldfields as you know,feral,stray cats are due to ignorant people,the unfortunate cats are the victims.
We who's love for our cats is no less than that for a dog,hope the message about spay/neuter is getting out there,we are getting more cheaper s/n clinics,which is a huge step in the right direction,but so much more needs to be done.
I actually saw a documentary about Aboriginal people in Australia,where they showed a group of women clubbing cats to death.
Feral cats were a food-source.
Now,I don't see it to be any worse than Canadians clubbing seals to death,which is only for $$$$.

I said that in the outback feral cats are treated as vermin. This is , in part only, what Wikipedia says about the history of feral cats.

Historical records date the arrival of feral cats in Australia at around 1824.[9] Despite that, it has been suggested that feral cats have been present in Australia since before European settlement, and may have arrived with Dutch shipwrecks in the 17th century, or even before that, arriving from present-day Indonesia with Macassan fisherman and trepangers who frequented Australia's shores.[10]

So, enough about ignorant people. Of course they were ignorant back then. I don't think they ever thought about or understood the environmental impact their cats might have, do you? As for aboriginal women clubbing cats to death, shooting would be better. Faster and more humane. Not as bad as poisoning them . In some countries people eat dogs, or horses, all pretty gruesome if you ask me. Stopping with the cats though, is it better to let native species go extinct because cats leave you feeling warm and fuzzy? I don't think so. I think cats, like dogs, have their place, and wild populations should be stamped out. I've a friend who goes deer hunting and he's seen dog packs that are extremely dangerous, to humans as well as stock. TNR is NOT an option out there when they want to rid the country of its feral cat population, and L4H, these cats are not 'owned' by anyone. In the civilised areas, fair enough, we can only use the same measures as any other country.

exkalibur
February 5th, 2011, 10:18 PM
...72037...

rainbow
February 5th, 2011, 10:33 PM
...72037...


:laughing: Too funny. :D

Love4himies
February 6th, 2011, 07:20 AM
...72037...

:laughing::laughing::laughing: that is hilarious. :thumbs up

Love4himies
February 6th, 2011, 07:24 AM
TNR is NOT an option out there when they want to rid the country of its feral cat population, and L4H, these cats are not 'owned' by anyone. In the civilised areas, fair enough, we can only use the same measures as any other country.

Perhaps not, but neither is clubbing. In a Trap/neuter/release program, the cats that are sterilized are not "owned" by anybody either. The purpose is to eliminate the breeding and to allow cats to live out their lives as peacefully as feral cats can.

aslan
February 6th, 2011, 07:45 AM
i'm not trying to be difficult,,,but try as i might i can't find a connection between the feral cats in Australia and Puppymills/kittymills around the world.

Goldfields
February 6th, 2011, 09:36 AM
Aslan, fear not. Things get twisted so much by a couple of posters that I might just go and enjoy bashing my head against a wall somewhere. :D Carry on, ladies. :thumbs up

aslan
February 6th, 2011, 12:13 PM
Aslan, fear not. Things get twisted so much by a couple of posters that I might just go and enjoy bashing my head against a wall somewhere. :D Carry on, ladies. :thumbs up


hmmmm since you're the one from australia i would assume you would be the one with info on feral cats in the evil feral cat puppymills there...

erykah1310
February 6th, 2011, 01:20 PM
Are the Mennonites above the law?
Is there no-one ever reporting them,for puppymills and animal-cruelty?
Poor horses,would break my heart:(

I remember seeing a puppy-mill raid once that were run by Mennonites..:evil:

Amish and Menonite are slightly different, but on both sides there are different levels of what they do.
The menonite community here (just here Idont know about others) are more liberal and drive cars, granted they are black or dark blue and have no radios in them. The amish communities around here use the horse and buggy route.
I too feel so badly for all their animals, horses cattle, sheep, dogs what have you. To them animals are livestock no matter what it is.
I wouldnt say they are above the law, however they follow their religion very strictly. How doees one challenge religion?
No animal on their property holds any importance to them other than a means of income be it food or puppies and in turn are treated as nothing more than that.

BenMax
February 6th, 2011, 02:36 PM
...72037...

:laughing::laughing::laughing: - Ok so this is the BEST comment of all times! Thanks for the chuckle!!!:thumbs up

rainbow
February 6th, 2011, 02:38 PM
:laughing::laughing::laughing: - Ok so this is the BEST comment of all times! Thanks for the chuckle!!!:thumbs up

Yep, good to get a man's perspective. :D

Furbaby Momma
February 6th, 2011, 02:46 PM
Carry on, ladies. :thumbs upExactly Goldfields, I wouldn't bother. What's sad IS so many people with nothing to do with their time.

aslan
February 6th, 2011, 02:48 PM
Exactly Goldfields, I wouldn't bother. What's sad IS so many people with nothing to do with their time.

oh you mean the people taking over threads on one topic to blah blah about something totally NOT related to the topic,,,yeah i really hate those people too,,how rude and inconsiderate eh.

now back to the ' puppymill" TOPIC.

BenMax
February 6th, 2011, 02:55 PM
oh you mean the people taking over threads on one topic to blah blah about something totally NOT related to the topic,,,yeah i really hate those people too,,how rude and inconsiderate eh.

now back to the ' puppymill" TOPIC.

True isn't it. It is almost like someone is trying to sabatoge...go figure.

So I guess we can all collectively say that ALL countries have their dark little secrets in regards to puppymills and bybs. One thing for sure is that in Canada, there are activists that have gone to great lengths to expose this ulcer to the public. There is progress although very slow, and the government can be blamed for this. The whole issue here is that this law falls under the Minister of Algriculture. Re-defining an 'animal' is where the problem lays. They do not know how to separate domestic animals from livestock in regards to changing the law. The fact that animals are considered possessions and are owned, this is another problem that we need to find a way around in order to make a significant change.

Of course education as stated many times is the best way to deter people from buying from petstores. People unfortunately are impulsive and are captivated by those eyes peering back begging for an out.

rainbow
February 6th, 2011, 03:02 PM
Exactly Goldfields, I wouldn't bother. What's sad IS so many people with nothing to do with their time.

This thread was about puppy mills to begin with but a certain member kept going off track. The members here that are concerned about it are doing as much as they can about it with their time.

chico2
February 6th, 2011, 03:50 PM
Oh,Oh would that be poor little me,if so,I am sorry:sorry:
Goldfields,just to point out,I was not criticizing what goes on in Australia,but you are right on one point,most animals give me a warm fuzzy feeling:laughing:

rainbow
February 6th, 2011, 03:53 PM
Oh,Oh would that be poor little me,if so,I am sorry:sorry:


Oh no .....it wasn't you, Chico.

Love4himies
February 6th, 2011, 05:03 PM
most animals give me a warm fuzzy feeling:laughing:

And that's why we love you so much :cloud9::lovestruck:

14+kitties
February 6th, 2011, 06:05 PM
Edited by Admin - If you have something personal to say to a member, please PM it to them.


but you are right on one point,most animals give me a warm fuzzy feeling:laughing:

:grouphug::grouphug: Thanks chico.

Amish and Menonite are slightly different, but on both sides there are different levels of what they do.
The menonite community here (just here Idont know about others) are more liberal and drive cars, granted they are black or dark blue and have no radios in them. The amish communities around here use the horse and buggy route.
I too feel so badly for all their animals, horses cattle, sheep, dogs what have you. To them animals are livestock no matter what it is.

:offtopic: That's strange. In the Owen Sound area (mid Ontario) , which is where I lived the first -- number of my years, there are two factions of Mennonites. One is the old style with the horse and buggies. The only transportation they can use beside that is a city/town bus. The other faction is called Progressive Mennonites. They have the dark coloured cars with no radios. Some of their children go to "regular" schools. They are allowed to wear light clothing and the females wear a scarf at all times once they reach a certain age. They are also allowed electricity in their homes. Just not TVs, radios, etc. I think at one time I was told there are over 200 different levels of factions within the Mennonite community.

Ok, back on topic..............
I really feel the reason why so many mills are coming to light now is because of the efforts of rescues organizations, animal activists (I'm not talking PETA), and the outrage of the ordinary citizen. Lets hope it keeps on keeping on.

Furbaby Momma
February 7th, 2011, 06:08 AM
Edited by Admin - If you have something personal to say to a member, please PM it to them.

Pets.ca is a wonderful animal website for all of us to learn and share, when you stay with one oppinion, you close yourself to learning something. A chance to educate others in a guiding way.

Everyone in this thread, in time got more educated in caring for their fur babies by all the wisdom that has been shared on this wonderful website. Feeding better food, being the best breeder, helping an animal in need, health issues, the best is hugs in support for each other.

I wish all of you a really great day!
{{{HUGE FURRY HUG}}}
Furbaby Momma

BenMax
February 7th, 2011, 06:14 AM
As you have had tons of experience with all the work you have done, perhaps listening to your ideas of resolution will help us all learn to grow and expand our thoughts about the subject heading. Afterall, you did state that we should keep an open mind....so what do you have to offer in this thread that is specific to the subject heading? (and I am not being rude by the way..just curious as to your take on this).:)

Blackbear
February 7th, 2011, 06:51 AM
Pls remain civil and on-topic. If you have something pertinent to say, pls share. If you can't remain civil, pls refrain from posting.

Furbaby Momma
February 7th, 2011, 06:57 AM
Edited by Admin - If you have something personal to say to a member, please PM it to them.

A member form another country is explaining what she knows, you and other members can take time to educate, but no it's easier to call in the troups and bash.
BenMax you didn't know all you know today (I remember you from another website) with time you have become more educated.
In the OP there are links to all the horror that collectively is all around the world. Every country has sacred animals, and discarded animals. How I treat my animals is not how someone else does.
My fight for animals was helped greatly when I stepped back and took breath, started to educate myself about all the animal world. Farming, breeding, rescuing, hunting..there are ethical people in this group...but there is also unethical people in this group.
BYB's, Puppmill's, Catmill's are reading pet boards they learn all about how to serve the greedy public. They learn to be more discrete about there business, they become members of pet websites and talk to all of you learning how better to make money off there animals.
When you tell the general public how to choose there next fur addition, help people to understand how a rescue animal is so in need of your love...maybe not everyone will listen but maybe one, two or three will listen.

I am an animal lover...I am known to be "The crazy animal lover woman" I wear that name with pride.
An animal does not judge your love for it, learn from your animal and stop judging others...learn, educate and be respectful.
You are reading my words...there is a wonderful woman with feelings writting these words, she read the words written by members who are human beings in the threadjack thread...does it make you all feel good to do that...I guess so.

I hope you have a great day,
Furbaby Momma

BenMax
February 7th, 2011, 07:13 AM
Thank you for sharing Furbaby Momma. I have indeed learnt alot from THIS forum concernting some valuable training tips, food suggestions and also I have meet some amazing people who HELPED me with the under ground bully movement. Absolutely nothing of value from the othe forum except for alot of bickering. If you know me, then you are definately aware of my involvement throughout the now 16 years of dedicated animal welfare route I have equally taken. Toe curling is not foreign to me either, but I rather not share so that others can sleep. This is not a quest to challenge who does more nor less, and I am not one looking for recognition but I am looking for validation for the cause which is not what I surprisingly see from some members here that share that same journey. I guess it is selfish that I also wish to educate on why rescues and shelters take the stand that we do. We are the ones (and you aswell I assume) that are in the trenches, not those that stand by and justify or ignore the cause of spreading the word about spay and neuter and being more pro-active rather than defensive. There is history here and there is frustration.

So thank you for sharing your concern and your response is well taken.

Now to stay on topic..what can you bring to the table?

Hopefully there is no reason to edit this post.

aslan
February 7th, 2011, 07:13 AM
Furbaby Momma,,as Benmax suggested please share the information you have and possibly give some suggestions on how to fix the problem..

As for the other situation when someone constantly goes into threads to continually go off topic no matter how many times they're asked to stay on topic or please start their own topic on what they want to discuss then yup feathers get abit ruffled.

Now as i said before,,,can we stay on the topic of puppymills.

14+kitties
February 7th, 2011, 08:09 AM
Edited by Admin - Should have been a PM to the member

I repeat - again - It would behoove us all to start working together to try to solve this problem rather than point out one country as being “better” than another. Please note they are not all bad news sites. Some actually show that progress, however slow, can be made.
I am really tired of my attempts to help "educate" people on a world wide problem being thwarted at every turn and these threads being locked. If you would like to come on and share some of your wisdom please do. We would welcome it - if done in a way that is educational which was my whole purpose of this thread. Thank you.

cassiek
February 7th, 2011, 08:49 AM
Feeding better food, being the best breeder, helping an animal in need, health issues, the best is hugs in support for each other.

I wish all of you a really great day!
{{{HUGE FURRY HUG}}}
Furbaby Momma

I'm not trying to nitpick, but I don't think there are too many threads on Pets that cover how to be the best breeder? I think most members on here are very pro spay/neuter and most feel that until all the animals in the thousands of rescues, shelters, humane societies etc. around the world have found homes, there should be no breeding. It hasn't been in my experience that this particular topic has been covered extensively here, or is what Pets has come to be about.

Regardless, that is :offtopic: and :sorry:

Back to the topic at hand... I agree with you 100% 14+ that I think the public's awareness of puppy mills is coming to light with all the efforts of rescue groups around the world (and yes - not PETA). I actually think most people are aware of them, but don't connect that puppy in the window at the petstore with a puppy mill. Actually, I think deep down some people do realize, but don't want to believe it and talk themselves out of it.

I'm sure this holds true for every rescue, but I know at the LHS, when we have owners who are surrendering an animal fill out a history form, almost all the dogs/cats were purchased from a BYB or a pet store (puppy mill). It's just so sad :(

Love4himies
February 7th, 2011, 09:36 AM
I'm not trying to nitpick, but I don't think there are too many threads on Pets that cover how to be the best breeder? I think most members on here are very pro spay/neuter and most feel that until all the animals in the thousands of rescues, shelters, humane societies etc. around the world have found homes, there should be no breeding. It hasn't been in my experience that this particular topic has been covered extensively here, or is what Pets has come to be about.

Yup a couple of members think so :p

Regardless, that is :offtopic: and :sorry:

Back to the topic at hand... I agree with you 100% 14+ that I think the public's awareness of puppy mills is coming to light with all the efforts of rescue groups around the world (and yes - not PETA). I actually think most people are aware of them, but don't connect that puppy in the window at the petstore with a puppy mill. Actually, I think deep down some people do realize, but don't want to believe it and talk themselves out of it.

I'm sure this holds true for every rescue, but I know at the LHS, when we have owners who are surrendering an animal fill out a history form, almost all the dogs/cats were purchased from a BYB or a pet store (puppy mill). It's just so sad :(

I have read that some people feel that rescuing that "puppy" in the pet store is helping that one pet and doesn't change the conditions that his/her mom and dad have to live in. What people aren't seeing is the connection is that the money they have given the pet store allows the miller to continue. I have yet to see a commercial that connects the two. And I really believe it has to be a shocking visual connection to get people's attention.

Also, the average person doesn't see the overpopulation, yes, they see the TV commercials, but how many people actually go into the pounds/shelters? That's where you see the reality of pet overpopulation.

I don't see the laws changing in the near future, it would affect too many farmers (won't go there on this thread), so the only way to stop the millers is to make it socially unacceptable to buy from the internet and pet stores.

Yes, millers are getting smarter and smarter to look more like rep breeders ;).

marko
February 7th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Let's please keep this civil and on topic.
Thx - Marko

cassiek
February 7th, 2011, 11:16 AM
I have read that some people feel that rescuing that "puppy" in the pet store is helping that one pet and doesn't change the conditions that his/her mom and dad have to live in. What people aren't seeing is the connection is that the money they have given the pet store allows the miller to continue. I have yet to see a commercial that connects the two. And I really believe it has to be a shocking visual connection to get people's attention.

Also, the average person doesn't see the overpopulation, yes, they see the TV commercials, but how many people actually go into the pounds/shelters? That's where you see the reality of pet overpopulation.

I don't see the laws changing in the near future, it would affect too many farmers (won't go there on this thread), so the only way to stop the millers is to make it socially unacceptable to buy from the internet and pet stores.

Yes, millers are getting smarter and smarter to look more like rep breeders ;).

L4H, I think your dead on - many people think they have "rescued" a puppy when they purchase from a petstore. Unfortunately, whatever your intentions/thoughts for purchasing a dog from a petstore are, it still supports puppy mills.

The only way to quit supporting puppy mills is to quit providing a demand for their "product" - in this case puppies/kittens. Numerous times when I hear someone say their pup/kitty was a "rescue", I immediately get excited, just to learn further in the conversation they bought from a pet store. I can see how it is very difficult to leave an animal in a petstore - because they do deserve a home and love too - but the only way to quit supporting the horrendous conditions they come from is to quit demanding pups/kittens from these sources.

And yeah, unfortunately in these days its not simply enough to tell others about these horrific conditions - graphic images seem to be needed to get the point across. And even then, I think people easily turn a blind eye and think "Oh that doesn't happen here" or they believe the employee at the petstore who swears up and down that the puppy/kitten came from a reputable breeder - because that's what they want to believe.

Even those that regularly visit or even volunteer in a shelter/rescue/humane society may not have any idea how bad the situation really is. Especially if they work at a no-kill shelter, like I do. Unless you physically see the endless waiting list to come in (ours dates back almost a year :(), or have to deal with countless people on the phone that you have to turn away because there is no room, you may not have any idea. We have to explain to them it's not simply "just one more" animal it's millions waiting to come in, and listen to the horrific stories of how they are going to shoot, drown, dump, or otherwise kill the animal because no one has room to take it.

Sorry, I'm doing ranting :o

aslan
February 7th, 2011, 11:30 AM
Unfortunately the puppies from a puppymill usually go through a broker who sells to the pet store,,who once the puppies are too old to sell as cute little pups,,they end up in rescue or killed..so the puppymill still makes some money..I think what needs to happen is that no pet stores should be allowed to sell any animals unless coming from a rescue of some sort.

Love4himies
February 7th, 2011, 11:34 AM
I was looking for further research on the internet and the big difference between North America's laws and European's laws is due to the NA considers animals as "property" and not "living beings". In Wikipedia it claims that Switzerland has the strictest cruelty laws which includes that minimum amount of exercise time a dog can be given. Now wouldn't that be something if the millers had to provide walks to all their dogs otherwise face cruelty charges.

Love4himies
February 7th, 2011, 11:37 AM
Unfortunately the puppies from a puppymill usually go through a broker who sells to the pet store,,who once the puppies are too old to sell as cute little pups,,they end up in rescue or killed..so the puppymill still makes some money..I think what needs to happen is that no pet stores should be allowed to sell any animals unless coming from a rescue of some sort.

There is still that darn internet :wall:.

aslan
February 7th, 2011, 11:40 AM
There is still that darn internet :wall:.

this is true L4 but then people wouldn't be able to say it was a rescue when they've searched out fifi the designer breed and paid 2 grand for her when fifi2 is in rescue for the price of adoption.

they need to get rid of puppy brokers too.

cassiek
February 7th, 2011, 11:51 AM
Aslan, I agree that if pet stores only sold puppies/kittens by working with shelters, humane societies etc. it would help tremendously with the pet-overpopulation problem. We have a few petstores here we work with, and the animals get adopted out very quickly because of all the exposure they get in a petstore! I think petstores have an incredible opportunity, because they can provide so much exposure to many of the public, to help with this situation. Unfortunately, when all you care about is $$$, this route doesn't seem so favorable. Given the choice between helping some local rescues or making thousands on labradoodles, bugs, maltipoos, and whatever the heck else they are called, the greedy *******s go for the latter.

I've had the unfortunate experience to know a few people who have sold kittens/puppies to pet stores. While they are not puppy mills, they are nothing more than BYB's who know nothing about having a litter.

L4H, did you find anything in your searches as to how they enforce such regulations in Switzerland? I'd be curious to learn how they have the manpower to regulate such laws.

It would be great to see some stricter laws here. In any area I've lived in Canada, there is basically nothing that the law will do for dogs/cats that are in dire need - as long as they have the very bare essentials (which basically includes nothing), they won't even bother. :(

Love4himies
February 7th, 2011, 11:59 AM
Aslan, I agree that if pet stores only sold puppies/kittens by working with shelters, humane societies etc. it would help tremendously with the pet-overpopulation problem. We have a few petstores here we work with, and the animals get adopted out very quickly because of all the exposure they get in a petstore! I think petstores have an incredible opportunity, because they can provide so much exposure to many of the public, to help with this situation. Unfortunately, when all you care about is $$$, this route doesn't seem so favorable. Given the choice between helping some local rescues or making thousands on labradoodles, bugs, maltipoos, and whatever the heck else they are called, the greedy *******s go for the latter.
I know it is that almighty evil $$. The shelter I volunteer for adopts out more cats through the pet food store that helps them out then their own shelter


I've had the unfortunate experience to know a few people who have sold kittens/puppies to pet stores. While they are not puppy mills, they are nothing more than BYB's who know nothing about having a litter.

L4H, did you find anything in your searches as to how they enforce such regulations in Switzerland? I'd be curious to learn how they have the manpower to regulate such laws.

It would be great to see some stricter laws here. In any area I've lived in Canada, there is basically nothing that the law will do for dogs/cats that are in dire need - as long as they have the very bare essentials (which basically includes nothing), they won't even bother. :(

No I didn't find out anything else on Switzerland.

Here is an interesting website for bedtime reading:

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusicacl.htm

Love4himies
February 7th, 2011, 12:04 PM
Here is a website from Switzerland's Vet Organization

http://www.bvet.admin.ch/themen/tierschutz/index.html?lang=en

The principle of the law is that pain, damage or suffering must not be unjustifiably inflicted on an animal, nor must any animal be subjected to severe anxiety. The neglect, overexertion or mishandling of animals is forbidden.

Note that even causing anxiety is considered cruel. We all know keeping dogs/cats in cages to breed and breed and breed again until their bodies give out does to these poor animals.

14+kitties
February 7th, 2011, 12:09 PM
I was looking for further research on the internet and the big difference between North America's laws and European's laws is due to the NA considers animals as "property" and not "living beings". In Wikipedia it claims that Switzerland has the strictest cruelty laws which includes that minimum amount of exercise time a dog can be given. Now wouldn't that be something if the millers had to provide walks to all their dogs otherwise face cruelty charges.

Is it not Switzerland also that will only adopt out cats/kittens by the twos? They won't allow single adoptions? I know one of the European countries do that.
IMO - diss it if you will - and I have mentioned it before in another thread - TV ads, radio ads, newspaper ads, billboards - a blitz. You can walk away from pictures on TV but you still have the narrative. You can turn the station. You can flip the page on the newspaper quickly. Etc, etc. But you know what - eventually a part of it sticks. Eventually it sticks enough to make you curious about what all the hoopla is about. Eventually you know the ads by heart. Eventually the pictures start to hit your heart. Eventually you can't say "I didn't know." You did. It's there in the back of your mind all the time. Hopefully when it comes time for you to pick a family pet or add another you will think twice before going the byb, miller, broker, pet store route. You will actively search out a rescue, a shelter.
We all know that commercial that plays during the holidays - So this is Christmas. How many of us can't sing along? Not many I'd venture. Why could a total blitz not work the same way? :shrug:

aslan
February 7th, 2011, 12:13 PM
you're absolutely right 14+,,,the spca ad with sarah mcclaughlin singing comes to mind as soon as i hear that song now i see that poor little kitten..:( Now it's a matter of getting the media to put in the effort.

14+kitties
February 7th, 2011, 12:15 PM
L4H, did you find anything in your searches as to how they enforce such regulations in Switzerland? I'd be curious to learn how they have the manpower to regulate such laws. :(

Cassie - Why would it take more manpower? I would think we could use the same manpower we have already got. We just get them on a different wavelength. I'm not talking the ones in the trenches. They already do everything they can. Some of them a lot more. I'm talking the ones at the top who need to find their hearts again. They are the ones who need their mindsets changed. They need to stop caring about the bucks they're pulling in and start caring about the animals they are supposed to be protecting. JMO of course.

14+kitties
February 7th, 2011, 12:19 PM
you're absolutely right 14+,,,the spca ad with sarah mcclaughlin singing comes to mind as soon as i hear that song now i see that poor little kitten..:( Now it's a matter of getting the media to put in the effort.

Ok - who do we know who has some TV clout? ;)

Love4himies
February 7th, 2011, 12:24 PM
Is it not Switzerland also that will only adopt out cats/kittens by the twos? They won't allow single adoptions? I know one of the European countries do that.


Here is a report on it:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3818457.ece

The gov't needs to change the laws to outlaw millers and to specifically give living standards to animals, then provide the funding so the law can be enforced.

14+kitties
February 7th, 2011, 12:37 PM
Here is a report on it:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3818457.ece

The gov't needs to change the laws to outlaw millers and to specifically give living standards to animals, then provide the funding so the law can be enforced.

It seems that they have lots of problems too. :(

cassiek
February 7th, 2011, 12:59 PM
No I didn't find out anything else on Switzerland.

Here is an interesting website for bedtime reading:

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusicacl.htm

Thanks, L4H, I will take a look at this! :thumbs up

Is it not Switzerland also that will only adopt out cats/kittens by the twos? They won't allow single adoptions? I know one of the European countries do that.
IMO - diss it if you will - and I have mentioned it before in another thread - TV ads, radio ads, newspaper ads, billboards - a blitz. You can walk away from pictures on TV but you still have the narrative. You can turn the station. You can flip the page on the newspaper quickly. Etc, etc. But you know what - eventually a part of it sticks. Eventually it sticks enough to make you curious about what all the hoopla is about. Eventually you know the ads by heart. Eventually the pictures start to hit your heart. Eventually you can't say "I didn't know." You did. It's there in the back of your mind all the time. Hopefully when it comes time for you to pick a family pet or add another you will think twice before going the byb, miller, broker, pet store route. You will actively search out a rescue, a shelter.
We all know that commercial that plays during the holidays - So this is Christmas. How many of us can't sing along? Not many I'd venture. Why could a total blitz not work the same way? :shrug:

I agree 100% 14+, we need to keep hitting the point home hard. Eventually something, somewhere along the line has to get the message across. :shrug:

Cassie - Why would it take more manpower? I would think we could use the same manpower we have already got. We just get them on a different wavelength. I'm not talking the ones in the trenches. They already do everything they can. Some of them a lot more. I'm talking the ones at the top who need to find their hearts again. They are the ones who need their mindsets changed. They need to stop caring about the bucks they're pulling in and start caring about the animals they are supposed to be protecting. JMO of course.

14+, I think if they are having strict regulations to the point where you must provide your dog with a minimal amount of exercise everyday, I am curious where they find the manpower to enforce such regulations. I'm all for them, I just think that even right now with the lax laws we have in regards to animal care, those that are working to enforce even such basic animal care laws can't keep up :shrug: at least that is the scenario here in AB.

Love4himies
February 7th, 2011, 01:23 PM
14+, I think if they are having strict regulations to the point where you must provide your dog with a minimal amount of exercise everyday, I am curious where they find the manpower to enforce such regulations. I'm all for them, I just think that even right now with the lax laws we have in regards to animal care, those that are working to enforce even such basic animal care laws can't keep up :shrug: at least that is the scenario here in AB.

Laws will also help generate what is socially acceptable. Look at how far banning smoking in public places. Just 30 years ago, it was socially acceptable to smoke at work, now you can barely smoke outside.

cassiek
February 7th, 2011, 01:54 PM
Laws will also help generate what is socially acceptable. Look at how far banning smoking in public places. Just 30 years ago, it was socially acceptable to smoke at work, now you can barely smoke outside.

Very true. Up until about 15 years ago, the mall in the city I grew up in still had a 'smoker's section' (that was not closed off or anything). Within the last 5 years or so here, they also stopped allowing smoking in the bars. Now, if someone were to light up in the bar, they would get alot of nasty looks just before being kicked out. :thumbs up :lightbulb:

It will be interesting to see some of Europe's ideas and regulations on animal care guidelines come over here, and I think overall it will have a positive influence, especially as it pertains to livestock. I know in AB, we are already starting to feel pressure in the broiler (meat) chicken industry and the marketing board has set new guidelines coming into effect in Dec 2013 for the minimum amount of space that must be provided to each bird. :thumbs up Some farmer's this won't effect, as they already provide this space. For others, it will mean having to sell their quota and grow less birds, or building another barn.

:sorry: I got off topic again :o but my point is, stricter regulations can only be a positive thing in terms of animal care and welfare.

Melinda
February 7th, 2011, 01:58 PM
my son is senior producer for a well known "media" company in Ottawa and is this moment negotiating with the SPCA for coverage. He's asked for a bit of help from me when it comes time for idea's.

14+kitties
February 7th, 2011, 03:42 PM
my son is senior producer for a well known "media" company in Ottawa and is this moment negotiating with the SPCA for coverage. He's asked for a bit of help from me when it comes time for idea's.

Well, when the time comes you know where to come for ideas. :thumbs up

chico2
February 7th, 2011, 04:47 PM
I honestly believe,our government is not going to bother to change any laws or punishment regarding puppy-mills,or animal-cruelty period.
If there is nothing in it for them to gain,nothing will happen.
Any animal-lover in the media is called an"activist"often compared to Peta:yell:
Harper or McGuinty do not bother with animal-cruelty what so ever,a"few activists"will not mean more votes,heck McGuinty murders dogs just for the breed they are.
Pet-Shops selling pups/kittens should not be existing,I believe by now,everyone knows where they come from..

There should be a law,that if we know of animal-cruelty,be it puppy-mills,BYB's or simply a dog suffering tied up outdoors,action should be taken,right away,animal cruelty,should be looked upon as the very serious horrendous crime it is,but I doubt I will live to see it.
I give our HS credit,they don't beat around the bush,they get things done:thumbs up

Unlike many of you,I don't see anything first hand,but I feel the pain,reading about yet another puppy-mill and feel elated seeing pups rescued.
I really don't do any rescuing or fostering,but do what I can for the love of animals,try to get through to people the importance of s/n and to save an animal from an overflowing shelter rather than buying one at a store.

Melinda
February 8th, 2011, 05:51 AM
it took almost a year of , and yes, I'll call it harassment from myself and about
24 friends, daily calling walmart, emailing them along with the head company and the spca, also calling and emailing for them to close down the fish department, our walmart no longer sells any live pets. Does harassement work, sure does......each time any of us visited the store we'd go directly to the back and take pics of the dead ones in the tank (date on picture), and of the betta's in their tiny plastic cups and email them to the spca's.

chico2
February 8th, 2011, 07:19 AM
Melinda,it's funny you should mention the fish at Wal-Mart,we had a K-Mart here at one time and every time I went I had to point out the dead fish in the tanks to the employees.
Never thinking that the Humane Society would care about fish..
oops:offtopic:

Melinda
February 8th, 2011, 07:37 AM
oh definately Chico, I use to call about our kmart too when it was here. I have people checking the pet shops that sell animals here and if there is even one pup lethargic, or running nose, cloudy eye or dirty cages (birds mostly)...a pic it taken and we send it and many emails to the spca

chico2
February 8th, 2011, 07:43 AM
We have no puppy/kitten stores anymore here(Oakville)that I know of,the last one closed up years ago.
My vet at the time,used to make regular trips to the store and report her findings to HS,between her and others,they eventually closed shop..:thumbs up

Melinda
February 8th, 2011, 07:53 AM
we have two left here Chico, one I'm not allowed in *L* poor young kids that have to come up to me to ask me to leave, I almost feel sorry for them.

14+kitties
February 8th, 2011, 07:57 AM
chico - I don't care if you go off topic mf. It is not done ............
It's great to brainstorm ideas for helping the issue every country has. You never know, by brainstorming maybe someone will come up with the perfect solution. :thumbs up Very interesting Melinda with the fish in WM story. I wonder why the other WMs still carry them. You'd think they'd just stop all together.:shrug:

Love4himies
February 8th, 2011, 08:00 AM
Yes, it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Gov't will react, but there needs to be mass public screaming to do so. Melinda, you have the right idea, now all there needs to be is a few million more like you.

Melinda
February 8th, 2011, 08:15 AM
ooop's, sorry, bad habit of mine going off topic. the reason other walmarts still have fish is because people aren't doing anything about it....each city has to make the choice for themselves, start going in weekly or if you work near one, daily.....well its sort of on topic, because the whole thought process is how to end things and get the knowledge out there.....by shutting down places, you are getting the word out. no?

14+kitties
February 8th, 2011, 08:21 AM
ooop's, sorry, bad habit of mine going off topic. the reason other walmarts still have fish is because people aren't doing anything about it....each city has to make the choice for themselves, start going in weekly or if you work near one, daily.....well its sort of on topic, because the whole thought process is how to end things and get the knowledge out there.....by shutting down places, you are getting the word out. no?

As I said - this is not what I consider going :offtopic:. We are still talking about ways to help the issues we have with pet overpopulation and ways to help solve them. It's all good. :thumbs up

mona_b
February 8th, 2011, 10:26 AM
Great thread mf :thumbs up

Laws on puppy mills need to be stronger. They really need to take what the dogs go through to heart. It's abuse plain and simple. When they do get caught, it's really just a slap on the rist. The relocate and start up again. They just continue to do it.

Does there need to be more advertising in regards to puppy mills? He!! yeah. It should be posted on billboards and t.v(commercials). We try and educate those who come on here. But do those we educate, educate others? I really hope so. I know I have tried. But with some it has been to late, they have gotten their dogs from pet stores.:(

People also need to understand that many of these puppies also come from Europe. Poland, Hungary, Romania and the Czech Rep are notorious for being puppy millers.

Pet store workers will never tell you where the pups come from. There is one pet store near me. There are 2 signs. One stating what a purebred dog is and another stating what a "hybred" is. I can't tell you how many times they tried to KICK me out of that store.:D

Puppy Mills are not easy to find for the average person. Reason being is the "owners" of them will not let you see them. They will never let you see the parents when you ask to see them. There are no vets being called to the property, hence why these poor dogs are in the shape they are in. If vets were being called in, then they would be reported.

I would love to continue this, but duty calls.

14+kitties
February 8th, 2011, 12:26 PM
Thanks mf. :grouphug:
Hybrid is just a nice way of saying mixed breed. :frustrated: I guess they figure it sounds better than mutt. :frustrated: That way people think they are getting some fancy dancy "breed". Of course for those so inclined they then think it's a gread idea to breed more of that "breed". I wonder how many years it will take before some really are accepted as true breeds. :(

rainbow
February 8th, 2011, 03:04 PM
Ok - who do we know who has some TV clout? ;)

my son is senior producer for a well known "media" company in Ottawa and is this moment negotiating with the SPCA for coverage. He's asked for a bit of help from me when it comes time for idea's.

Yes, it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Gov't will react, but there needs to be mass public screaming to do so. Melinda, you have the right idea, now all there needs to be is a few million more like you.

This is exactly what we need. :thumbs up I posted about the rally held in West Vancouver in this thread http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=75024&page=2 and really hope that it is just the start of more to come. :fingerscr

If people keep this subject in the news then hopefully something will be done to improve our animal cruelty laws. :pray: :fingerscr

chico2
February 8th, 2011, 04:28 PM
You know,I wish someone in our government would have the guts,but I believe,to them in the big scheme of things,we who care are a minority.

I remember every single animal-cruelty act that has been published,starting with Kensington the cat in Toronto,who was brutally tortured,by 3 students,everyone was outraged,protests ensued.....but nothing happened to these evil young men,except a very short stint in jail and that's just one story...that eventually just got forgotten,as will this one be about those poor dogs.

A while back,changing the cruelty-laws were talked about,the people 100% against any changes to favor the animals,were live-stock farmers and others in the business.

So,nothing has changed,livestock still travel in packed trailers on the way to be slaughtered,factory-farms still exists...
We have nobody in our government,be it the feds or provincial,who cares...

It is a blessing we have so many compassionate people,who do all they can to help,be it in shelters,or privately run rescues,people who foster and people who will go to great length to save animals from death.

Protesting,getting the media involved,will make people listen for a while,maybe the message will get through to some,but McGuinty and Harper will just wait until it goes away.
I am not saying don't protest,maybe one day someone will really listen and get things done:fingerscr

IMO,the whole country should mobilize,every single person with compassion for those that cannot help themselves.

14+kitties
February 8th, 2011, 09:36 PM
IMO,the whole country should mobilize,every single person with compassion for those that cannot help themselves.

There would have to be some kind of a message sent out so pet lovers would know what specific day to mobilize on. Maybe we could do an email and start sending it out. Like they did last year with the "don't buy gas on this day". :shrug: Just have to figure out "the day" and what to do on that day.

rainbow
February 8th, 2011, 10:31 PM
There would have to be some kind of a message sent out so pet lovers would know what specific day to mobilize on. Maybe we could do an email and start sending it out. Like they did last year with the "don't buy gas on this day". :shrug: Just have to figure out "the day" and what to do on that day.

I don't know if you read the links that I posted in the other thread about the sled dogs but the rally was called a Tweet-Up and particpants were to tweet everyone they knew. The organizer of the event is Catherine Barr who is a media journalist/blogger with her own website and Facebook page. Here's what I posted in the other thread ....

There was a rally yesterday to bring awareness to our animal cruelty laws and how they desperately need to be changed right across Canada. I hope other cities start doing this as well to keep everyone's attention on this. Here is a write-up about it .....

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/lov...463/story.html



The organizer (Catherine Barr) is a media journalist/blogger and here is her website ....

http://www.catherinebarr.com/vancouv...est-vancouver/


Catherine Barr has a petition going that is going to be presented to the gov't at the end of February. I don't follow Facebook or Twitter and coulldn't find the petition when I googled. Hopefully, someone here will be able to post it.

mona_b
February 9th, 2011, 09:56 AM
Thanks mf. :grouphug:
Hybrid is just a nice way of saying mixed breed. :frustrated: I guess they figure it sounds better than mutt. :frustrated: That way people think they are getting some fancy dancy "breed". Of course for those so inclined they then think it's a gread idea to breed more of that "breed". I wonder how many years it will take before some really are accepted as true breeds. :(

The funny thing is, their definition of "hybrid" had to do with the type of breeder. If I recall, something like a local breeder. :rolleyes: It's been a while since I was in there. But every time I did go in, that's when I did my educating. I asked the people standing in front of the pups if they truley knew what a puppy mill was. I also told them to research what it is. And then decide if they still want that puppy.

To be honest, I doubt any of them will be accepted as a true breed.

I have a very good friend here who is in broadcasting. When I get a chance, I will talk to him and see what can be done.:)