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Elevated WBC

momcat
December 22nd, 2010, 02:51 PM
Hello Everyone!

This problem started in 2008. (The kitty will be 18 years old in a couple of months.) The only findings after every imaginable test: a pulmonary bulla and thickened intestines. (She's been an IBD kitty since she was a baby, so the thickened intestines are no surprise at her age.)

The WBC count seemed to respond to Convenia a couple of times but went right back up again.

Thoughts, suggestions would be most appreciated. Questions welcome. Thank you!

growler~GateKeeper
December 30th, 2010, 01:36 AM
Were there any swabs or biopsies done on either the pulmonary bulla or the intestinal tract?

Have you tried any other antibiotics?

There are some concerns surrounding the use of Convenia (see this thread Covenia (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57265&highlight=covenia)) especially since it is an irreversible injection, so if there is any reaction to the injection or the meds there is no way to stop administering it.

Were full complete blood & urine tests done? Anything else come up out of normal range?

Have you had an ultrasound to determine the extent/progression of the pulmonary bulla and IBD?

momcat
December 30th, 2010, 07:46 AM
Thank you so much for the questions!

Were there any swabs or biopsies done on either the pulmonary bulla or the intestinal tract?

No swabs. With your question you're reading my mind because doing a swab of some kind is exactly what I've been wondering about for the past week. If you could tell me more about this, what to ask our vet, how to go about this, I would appreciate it a lot.

Have you tried any other antibiotics?

There are some concerns surrounding the use of Convenia (see this thread Covenia) especially since it is an irreversible injection, so if there is any reaction to the injection or the meds there is no way to stop administering it.

So far we've only done the Convenia shots. Maybe three altogether. Not one right after the other, there was some time in-between. After the last one she was extremely lethargic for nine days, so I feel very fortunate nothing worse happened. I would be scared to let her have another one.

Thank you so much for the link on Convenia. It seems that's the one I found and saved a few months ago. I actually went back to it when our kitty was so lethargic after the last shot and.....well, I can only say, I'm very grateful for this thread on this forum.

Anyway, our vet is now thinking of trying Zeniquin but after looking up this med, I'm too scared.

The thing is, the problem with elevated WBC started quite a long time ago (her last perfectly normal WBC count was back in 2006, so I can't help wondering if something other than infection might be involved. Inflammation perhaps? Wouldn't infection cause severe complications in all this time?

Were full complete blood & urine tests done? Anything else come up out of normal range?

We're always doing complete blood work unless we're tracking one particular value for some reason after complete blood work and urine tests were also done. The chem profile is always perfect, everything is still within normal range and so far nothing came up in the urine tests either. At least not anything I'm aware of. Thyroid is also perfect. (I always get a copy of blood work results so I have them all, going way back.)

Since 2007 some kind of problem shows up in the CBCs. The other day I made a chart hoping I could find something that might mean something and then ask our vet about it. I realize I don't know enough about these things beyond having a vague idea about some values and no idea at all about some others. For instance, going back to 2007 when the white count was up for the first time, I see high eosinophil in a couple of CBCs. Then normal eosinophil from there on but high MCHC and low lymphocytes - consistent in all the rest of the CBCs.

Have you had an ultrasound to determine the extent/progression of the pulmonary bulla and IBD?

She's had three chest X-rays since the bulla was found and a chest and abdominal ultrasound. No alarming changes in the bulla. Thickened intestines. Otherwise everything looks normal. The thickened intestines are a concern. We ran into problems with medication that should have helped with that, so I'm wondering now if omega-3 oils might be our only option for trying to deal with inflammation in that area. Your thoughts will be most appreciated. And thank you!

growler~GateKeeper
January 3rd, 2011, 02:22 AM
No swabs. With your question you're reading my mind because doing a swab of some kind is exactly what I've been wondering about for the past week. If you could tell me more about this, what to ask our vet, how to go about this, I would appreciate it a lot.

I was wondering if the vets had checked for specific viral/bacterial/fungal infections through something like exploratory surgery/biopsies, though that's not always possible depending on the area.

going back to 2007 when the white count was up for the first time, I see high eosinophil in a couple of CBCs. Then normal eosinophil from there on but high MCHC and low lymphocytes - consistent in all the rest of the CBCs.

Eosinophils are wbcs that primarily produce protein in the bone marrow, help fight infection and remove fibrin (protein involved in blood clotting) during inflammation.

MCHC is mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration - the amount of hemoglobin in a specific amount of red blood cells. A high MCHC indicates there is too much hemoglobin in the red blood cell, which means high iron levels - iron is an important part of hemoglobin. Hemoglobin releases and transports oxygen in the red blood cells to the rest of the body. High hemoglobin indicates high red blood cells, this all can be indicative of dehydration.

Lymphocytes are produced by the lymph glands and the spleen, they aide in producing antibodies. Low lymphocytes show in viral infections, use of steroids and also shows when the cat is stressed.

She's had three chest X-rays since the bulla was found and a chest and abdominal ultrasound. No alarming changes in the bulla. Thickened intestines. Otherwise everything looks normal. The thickened intestines are a concern. We ran into problems with medication that should have helped with that, so I'm wondering now if omega-3 oils might be our only option for trying to deal with inflammation in that area. Your thoughts will be most appreciated. And thank you!

Omega3's are a good idea. You mention she's an IBD kitty what is she eating right now? Have you noticed any litterbox changes recently? Is she showing sensitivity to certain foods?

Has the vet mentioned anything about the kidneys? What is her most recent Urine Specific Gravity (USG) on the urinalysis?

momcat
January 3rd, 2011, 02:44 PM
Thank you so much for all the info!

I was wondering if the vets had checked for specific viral/bacterial/fungal infections through something like exploratory surgery/biopsies, though that's not always possible depending on the area.

Oh, I see. No, there hasn't been any invasive testing.

Is she showing sensitivity to certain foods?

Last year she started showing some sensitivity to chicken, so I'm watching and working with that. It's a puzzling, confusing problem because instead of ordinary symptoms one would expect to see from food allergy, when she has a reaction the symptoms match the symptoms of esophageal disease.
Prior to this she had the same set of symptoms from medication, so originally I thought I had made her sick with pilling. Now I'm not so sure. I can't help wondering if that was also just some kind of strange allergic reaction.

She's on a canned diet, no grains. She's been on this kind if diet all her life.

What is her most recent Urine Specific Gravity (USG) on the urinalysis?

1,035

growler~GateKeeper
January 6th, 2011, 02:06 AM
It's a puzzling, confusing problem because instead of ordinary symptoms one would expect to see from food allergy, when she has a reaction the symptoms match the symptoms of esophageal disease.

Is she to the point of coughing?

If so this is more advanced than a simple allergy it's the IBD showing an intolerance to any small bit of the particular food she is reacting against.

My :rip: CRF/mild IBD cat had an intolerance to duck that was so severe that she was showing all the symptoms of IBD cramping/diarreah/constipation etc combined with drooling/rough breathing/coughing - (scariest thing ever - she sounded like a dog barking). During the last episode she spent a weekend was ER, alot of it was precaution based on her known kidney failure.

My girl was raw fed and later on also developed a reaction to bones, so further intolerances can develop overtime, a bit of tweaking to the diet and no more reactions.

My advice would be to remove all foods that have ingredients you know she's reacting against and write down all reactions/non-reactions/symptoms for each food she eats to nail down what she can and can't eat.

Prior to this she had the same set of symptoms from medication, so originally I thought I had made her sick with pilling. Now I'm not so sure. I can't help wondering if that was also just some kind of strange allergic reaction.

Could've been a reaction against a binding ingredient or filler in the meds :shrug:, or perhaps she does also have a sensitivity in her esophagus. Some info here: http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00115.htm

1,035

Has this number been consistant over a number of tests/last few years?

momcat
January 6th, 2011, 12:23 PM
Is she to the point of coughing?

She started coughing when she was on medication. Then I realized food could also make her cough.
The cough is a moist cough. Sometimes, so far only three times though in a nine month period, productive. On those occasions she brought up something that looked like a little bit of mucus or a mixture of mucus and saliva. She is not coughing every day, which makes this whole thing even more confusing and difficult to figure out.

My advice would be to remove all foods that have ingredients you know she's reacting against and write down all reactions/non-reactions/symptoms for each food she eats to nail down what she can and can't eat.

Great advice. Actually I'm trying to do something like this. It isn't easy because cat food has so many different ingredients and, to add to the problem, for some strange reason her reactions are not consistent. I can't count on seeing the same reaction to the same thing every single time.

Could've been a reaction against a binding ingredient or filler in the meds, or perhaps she does also have a sensitivity in her esophagus.
Some info here: http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB...00/PR00115.htm

Yes, yes, yes, exactly what I had been wondering about.
The article. One of the best articles, if not the best, on esophageal diseases. Thank you!

And thank you so much for sharing your experiences with your baby.

As for the Urine Specific Gravity (1,035),
Has this number been consistant over a number of tests/last few years?

That's the only number I have. The test was part of all the recent diagnostic work-up to make sure nothing was overlooked. I'm not sure she's had any urine tests in the past, I don't see anything in the records and with her I donít recall any urine tests. That could be perhaps because she's never had any urinary problems and perhaps because blood work results have never shown anything that would've called for further testing. (According to the labís reference ranges BUN and creatinine are still within normal range.)

growler~GateKeeper
January 7th, 2011, 01:45 AM
She started coughing when she was on medication. Then I realized food could also make her cough.
The cough is a moist cough. Sometimes, so far only three times though in a nine month period, productive. On those occasions she brought up something that looked like a little bit of mucus or a mixture of mucus and saliva. She is not coughing every day, which makes this whole thing even more confusing and difficult to figure out.

Okay good, productive cough is way better than the non-productive raspy bark/hack my girl had.

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00198.htm

Was it sorta foamy white stuff and clear saliva?

When she coughs this mucas/saliva up is it instantly productive ie she starts acting like she's gonna & does immediately or does it take her a while to bring it up (like a hairball takes a couple of minutes to get out)?

Do you remember the circumstances? Right before a meal, after meds, after washing....

The pulmonary bullae may be the reason for the productive cough not necessarily the food/IBD issue, according to this article: http://www.familyvet.com/Cats/Resp.html

NON-CANCEROUS LUNG MASSES
The types of masses encountered include the following; Bullae, large air-filled pockets often created from damaged lung tissues.........

If clinical signs are present, they may include a cough, which may or may not be productive and in some cases contain blood. Trouble breathing, fever, decreased exercise capacity, lethargy and poor appetite are also possible symptoms. Diagnosis is generally made based on the clinical signs and chest X-ray, with definitive diagnosis occurring via a biopsy. Secretions analyzed may, however provide a clue to the problem

Treatment here will depend upon the nature of the mass, and the degree to which it affects the cat. Cysts or bullae require no treatment in most cases. Walled off abscesses or fungal granulomas will require antibiotic or anti-fungal medications. Parasitic granulomas would benefit from anti-parasitic medications. Some masses, including rare, solitary tumors will require surgical removal of the lung lobe affected

The more I think about it, the pulmonary bullae could be the most likely reason for the changes in the wbc count, as the immune system is encountering the air pocket and considers it to be a foreign substance in the body so it must take action to remove/control it, usually seen through inflammation/wbc changes.

Yes, yes, yes, exactly what I had been wondering about.
The article. One of the best articles, if not the best, on esophageal diseases. Thank you!

One thing that is mentioned in the article (that I recommend to all who have kidney cats), would also be a good idea for your girl regardless if she has esophageal issues or not, is to raise the food/water dishes up off the ground between 2-6" depending on her size & what's comfortable for her. For kidney cats especially and all others this helps keep the stomach acid in the stomach reducing nausea, for esophageal issues this will also aid in the downward movement of food through the throat so it doesn't stick in one place too long, potentially causing/promoting excess saliva, coughing etc.

As for the Urine Specific Gravity (1,035),

That's the only number I have. The test was part of all the recent diagnostic work-up to make sure nothing was overlooked. I'm not sure she's had any urine tests in the past, I don't see anything in the records and with her I donít recall any urine tests. That could be perhaps because she's never had any urinary problems and perhaps because blood work results have never shown anything that would've called for further testing. (According to the labís reference ranges BUN and creatinine are still within normal range.)

Excellent :thumbs up

momcat
January 7th, 2011, 05:56 PM
Okay good, productive cough is way better than the non-productive raspy bark/hack my girl had.

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00198.htm

Oh, fantastic article, thank you so much for that.

I'm glad to see abnormal lung sounds mentioned under productive coughing. She does have those, most likely what the article calls crackles. Our vet has mentioned hearing abnormal lung sounds during exams and she's concerned about them.

Now as I read this article, things are finally starting to make sense. By the way, her heart is healthy, there is no heart disease. Back in 2006 she was found to have a slight murmur, so she's had three ultrasounds since then to keep a close eye on her heart. So far everything is fine.

Was it sorta foamy white stuff and clear saliva?

Just clear saliva. And some clear mucus.

When she coughs this mucas/saliva up is it instantly productive ie she starts acting like she's gonna & does immediately or does it take her a while to bring it up (like a hairball takes a couple of minutes to get out)?

It takes her awhile to bring it up, yes, just like a hairball.

Do you remember the circumstances? Right before a meal, after meds, after washing....

When she starts coughing it always happens when she's resting or lying down When she was on medication she started coughing about an hour after she got the medication.

The pulmonary bullae may be the reason for the productive cough not necessarily the food/IBD issue, according to this article: http://www.familyvet.com/Cats/Resp.html

Makes a lot of sense. I see the article mentions lethargy and poor appetite. These have been constant problems for some time. Originally, before the bulla was discovered, poor appetite and weight loss were the two main symptoms that made me take her to the vet. After an exam and some tests it was decided it had to be the IBD causing them and she was put on anti-inflammatory medication. The tests included an X-ray and later I found out the bulla showed up on that X-ray already but it was considered nothing more than an incidental finding without any significance. A few months later when she had a second X-ray and some changes could be seen in the bulla, we finally started talking about it.

The more I think about it, the pulmonary bullae could be the most likely reason for the changes in the wbc count, as the immune system is encountering the air pocket and considers it to be a foreign substance in the body so it must take action to remove/control it, usually seen through inflammation/wbc changes.

I can't thank you enough for this because under the circumstances this reasoning is the only thing that makes any sense. And now here is what I'm wondering about. With inflammation and wbc changes, using anti-inflammatory medication would seem to be the natural next step. Yet she started coughing after she'd been on such medication (prednisolone) for some time. (She was on the low 2.5 mg every other day maintenance dose when the coughing started.) So where does this leave us, what can we possibly use for trying to deal with the inflammation? Would you know of anything, medication or supplement, besides the omega-3s we've already talked about? Also, since we've tried different forms of the anti-inflammatory medication and ran into various problems with all of them but for some reason have never tried the liquid form, would you think I should ask our vet to let us try that?

Raising the dishes is a great idea, sounds like this could be very helpful for her. I'll start by raising them just a tiny bit tonight, not high enough for her to notice anything and then keep raising them a teeny tiny bit at a time until we get to the point where they are high enough to make a real difference.

growler~GateKeeper
January 8th, 2011, 03:40 AM
I'm glad to see abnormal lung sounds mentioned under productive coughing. She does have those, most likely what the article calls crackles. Our vet has mentioned hearing abnormal lung sounds during exams and she's concerned about them.

Now as I read this article, things are finally starting to make sense. By the way, her heart is healthy, there is no heart disease. Back in 2006 she was found to have a slight murmur, so she's had three ultrasounds since then to keep a close eye on her heart. So far everything is fine.

Sounds like this little one's been through the wringer already :grouphug:

Just clear saliva. And some clear mucus.

It takes her awhile to bring it up, yes, just like a hairball.

Mucus is a defensive response to help clear out whatever is irritating the system (bacteria, microorganisms etc), also aids in removing dead/diseased tissues. http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/sec17/ch188/ch188d.html

Probably taking a bit to bring it up since it's actually originating from farther down - in the lungs not up high in the esophagus, much like a hairball that originates in the stomach.

(If it was foamy & white that would've been stomach acid.)

When she starts coughing it always happens when she's resting or lying down When she was on medication she started coughing about an hour after she got the medication.


With inflammation and wbc changes, using anti-inflammatory medication would seem to be the natural next step. Yet she started coughing after she'd been on such medication (prednisolone) for some time. (She was on the low 2.5 mg every other day maintenance dose when the coughing started.) So where does this leave us, what can we possibly use for trying to deal with the inflammation? Would you know of anything, medication or supplement, besides the omega-3s we've already talked about? Also, since we've tried different forms of the anti-inflammatory medication and ran into various problems with all of them but for some reason have never tried the liquid form, would you think I should ask our vet to let us try that?

Slippery Elm Bark (http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/) can be used as it has anti-inflammatory properties, also very good for the IBD. Found in natural health food stores, make sure it's pure w/no additional ingredients like this one from Organic Traditions (http://www.herbarella.com/zoomify.asp?catalogid=231&img=assets/images/278/slippery-elm.jpg). Use 1/4 tsp & add sufficient water to make a thick gruel, add about a teaspoon of gruel to canned food or give via syringe before meals. Give at least an hour before/after any meds as it can interfere with their absorption.

One thing to keep in mind with steroid use as an anti-inflammatory is it's keeping the inflammation in control but not treating what's causing it, steroids are often used as a stop-gap measure to get symptoms under control while the cause is determined/rectified. Long term use of any steroid can have detrimental effects on other organs esp the liver & kidneys as they clear it from the body.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/191604.htm
A number of mechanisms are responsible for the anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive actions of glucocorticoids [pred]. In homeostasis, glucocorticoids help maintain normal vascular permeability and microcirculation and stabilize cellular and lysosomal membranes. However, in acute inflammation, glucocorticoids decrease vascular permeability and inhibit the migration and egress of polymorphonuclear lymphocytes into tissues. Glucocorticoids suppress cell-mediated immunity by inducing apoptosis in normal lymphoid cells, inhibiting the clonal expansion of T and B lymphocytes, and reducing the number of circulating eosinophils, basophils, and monocytes.

In most inflammatory conditions, glucocorticoids should be used in conjunction with therapies that target the underlying cause.

T and B lymphocytes are two of the main immune response cells creating antibodies and destroying foreign objects.

It wouldn't hurt to ask if your vet has had any experience/success with using liquid anti-inflammatories in cats and whether s/he thinks it's a good option to go back to at this point given her history with meds.

Some pill/tablet meds are not available in liquid form, however if there is a compounding pharmacy that will work with veterinary formulas or take a prescription for human meds written by a vet, they can convert the pill to a liquid form. Be aware though that there may be some reduction in the efficacy of the meds.

From a homeopathic perspective anti-inflammatory drugs prevent, by way of suppression, the body from doing it's job which is allowing the immune system to fight off the infection/irritation as it should. Obviously in some cases the immune system is unable to go it alone & needs some assistance whether it's through homeopathic remedies, conventional drug treatments or both. Not everyone is comfortable/familiar with homeopathy and that's okay, I first discovered it for animals about 3 years ago when my girl was diagnosed w/CRF and it's since always my first inclination, some of the choice for which route also may depend on availability of trained professionals in your area.

momcat
January 8th, 2011, 06:53 PM
Sounds like this little one's been through the wringer already

I couldn't possibly disagree with that. I think having had two cats with heart disease has a lot to do with the extra attention her heart has been getting. I believe the extra attention is an attempt on my part to try to protect her, to prevent some things in case that becomes necessary, things I couldn't prevent with the other two. Also, one of the ultrasounds was done before her last dental to make sure it was safe to go ahead with it at her age. I think about these things, think about them a lot. Thinking about things is so easy. Putting thoughts into words so much more difficult. But I know you'll understand.

Mucus is a defensive response to help clear out whatever is irritating the system (bacteria, microorganisms etc), also aids in removing dead/diseased tissues. http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/sec...88/ch188d.html

Thank you so much for this. Wonderful set of articles, wonderful information. And, of course, prednisone is right there, under impaired defenses.

Probably taking a bit to bring it up since it's actually originating from farther down - in the lungs not up high in the esophagus, much like a hairball that originates in the stomach.

You must be right about that.

(If it was foamy & white that would've been stomach acid.)

Good to know.

Slippery Elm Bark can be used as it has anti-inflammatory properties, also very good for the IBD. Found in natural health food stores, make sure it's pure w/no additional ingredients like this one from Organic Traditions. Use 1/4 tsp & add sufficient water to make a thick gruel, add about a teaspoon of gruel to canned food or give via syringe before meals. Give at least an hour before/after any meds as it can interfere with their absorption.

Thank you for the suggestion, I'll get slippery elm for her.

Give at least an hour before/after any meds as it can interfere with their absorption.

Thank you very much for this important reminder.

One thing to keep in mind with steroid use as an anti-inflammatory is it's keeping the inflammation in control but not treating what's causing it, steroids are often used as a stop-gap measure to get symptoms under control while the cause is determined/rectified. Long term use of any steroid can have detrimental effects on other organs esp the liver & kidneys as they clear it from the body.

Oh yes, absolutely.
I have an article from Cold River Veterinary Center that lists 41 possible adverse effects of steroids and the following under secondary disorders: pancreatitis, hepatic lipidosis, Addison's disease, diabetes mellitus, gastrointestinal ulceration, lipidemia, depression, lethargy, weakness, vicious behavior, viral and bacterial infection. Scary.


http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in.../bc/191604.htm
A number of mechanisms are responsible for the anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive actions of glucocorticoids [pred]. In homeostasis, glucocorticoids help maintain normal vascular permeability and microcirculation and stabilize cellular and lysosomal membranes. However, in acute inflammation, glucocorticoids decrease vascular permeability and inhibit the migration and egress of polymorphonuclear lymphocytes into tissues. Glucocorticoids suppress cell-mediated immunity by inducing apoptosis in normal lymphoid cells, inhibiting the clonal expansion of T and B lymphocytes, and reducing the number of circulating eosinophils, basophils, and monocytes.

In most inflammatory conditions, glucocorticoids should be used in conjunction with therapies that target the underlying cause.
T and B lymphocytes are two of the main immune response cells creating antibodies and destroying foreign objects.

It wouldn't hurt to ask if your vet has had any experience/success with using liquid anti-inflammatories in cats and whether s/he thinks it's a good option to go back to at this point given her history with meds.

Some pill/tablet meds are not available in liquid form, however if there is a compounding pharmacy that will work with veterinary formulas or take a prescription for human meds written by a vet, they can convert the pill to a liquid form. Be aware though that there may be some reduction in the efficacy of the meds.

A very important consideration, something to think about. I just went to Wikipedia to read about compounding medications and found the following: "This may be done for medically necessary reasons, such as to change the form of the medication from a solid pill to a liquid, to avoid a non-essential ingredient that the patient is allergic to, or to obtain the exact dose needed. "
To avoid a nonessential ingredient that the patient is allergic to reminded me of something you wrote in one of your earlier posts:
Could've been a reaction against a binding ingredient or filler in the meds
so maybe I should make the effort to find out. Trying the liquid form would let me do that. I really have to think about this.

From a homeopathic perspective anti-inflammatory drugs prevent, by way of suppression, the body from doing it's job which is allowing the immune system to fight off the infection/irritation as it should. Obviously in some cases the immune system is unable to go it alone & needs some assistance whether it's through homeopathic remedies, conventional drug treatments or both. Not everyone is comfortable/familiar with homeopathy and that's okay, I first discovered it for animals about 3 years ago when my girl was diagnosed w/CRF and it's since always my first inclination, some of the choice for which route also may depend on availability of trained professionals in your area.


Is there anything, book or articles on veterinary homeopathy that you could possibly recommend for reading/learning? Are you treating on your own, or always on the advice of a vet homeopath? I know a little bit about homeopathy, just enough to understand the basics but not enough to try to use any remedies on my own.

growler~GateKeeper
January 9th, 2011, 02:27 AM
A very important consideration, something to think about. I just went to Wikipedia to read about compounding medications and found the following: "This may be done for medically necessary reasons, such as to change the form of the medication from a solid pill to a liquid, to avoid a non-essential ingredient that the patient is allergic to, or to obtain the exact dose needed. "
To avoid a nonessential ingredient that the patient is allergic to reminded me of something you wrote in one of your earlier posts:

so maybe I should make the effort to find out. Trying the liquid form would let me do that. I really have to think about this.

If you decide to try a compounding method be sure to dicuss it with your vet first, especially if there are other meds being used at the same time.

Is there anything, book or articles on veterinary homeopathy that you could possibly recommend for reading/learning? Are you treating on your own, or always on the advice of a vet homeopath? I know a little bit about homeopathy, just enough to understand the basics but not enough to try to use any remedies on my own.

Here is a pdf on (human) homeopathy, a good overall introduction Dr. Timothy R. Dooley's, Homeopathy: Beyond Flat Earth Medicine: An Essential Guide for the Homeopathic Patient (http://www.drdooley.net/Book.pdf)

A book on my list to get is: Dr. Don Hamilton's, Homeopathy Care for Cats and Dogs: Small Doses for Small Animals

I lost my CRF girl 9 months ago :rip: so I don't currently have any pets to treat, but I always treated on the advice of my homeopath & homeopath vet unless given clear instructions for future issues (ie she was showing xx symptoms, so the next time that happens again give xxx remedy at x hr intervals, if she shows these different symptoms give xx remedy at x hr intervals).

For myself I've enough of an understanding of homeopathy that I'll use specific remedies I already know for simple things like when I myself have a cold or stomach cramps or sore muscles etc. There are multiple remedies that can be used for similiar symptoms but when there is one or two key issues that match the properly worked out remedy treats much better (sometimes it's not one generally thought of for a particular issue as well).

momcat
January 9th, 2011, 11:05 AM
If you decide to try a compounding method be sure to dicuss it with your vet first, especially if there are other meds being used at the same time

Absolutely. I wouldnít dream of getting medication any other way except from our vet, never have.

Here is a pdf on (human) homeopathy, a good overall introduction Dr. Timothy R. Dooley's, Homeopathy: Beyond Flat Earth Medicine: An Essential Guide for the Homeopathic Patient

A book on my list to get is: Dr. Don Hamilton's, Homeopathy Care for Cats and Dogs: Small Doses for Small Animals

Thank you so much!

Iím terribly, terribly sorry about your CRF baby. CRF is a cruel disease, one of the cruelest, most heartbreaking diseases there is.

One of my saddest, most painful memories is from the time when my cat with heart disease was also in CRF and the CRF had progressed to the point where she wouldíve needed sub-Q fluids to make her feel better and to extend her life. She seemed okay after the first treatment but the second treatment sent her into congestive heart failure. I had to rush her to the vet where they put her in an oxygen tent and treated her with strong diuretics. They saved her life on that day and she was able to come home and go on, but I had to stand by helplessly and let the CRF progress without the most essential treatment that couldíve been helping her.

I canít thank you enough for all the help youíve given me. I have saved this thread and Iím reading, re-reading all your posts and will do so many, many more times. They are giving me the direction I didnít have, couldnít find, before our conversations. Iím very, very grateful to you for that. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. This is not a good-bye, just a heartfelt thank you to let you know how much I appreciate all your help.

sugarcatmom
January 9th, 2011, 12:29 PM
A book on my list to get is: Dr. Don Hamilton's, Homeopathy Care for Cats and Dogs: Small Doses for Small Animals


This is a great book, I highly recommend it. :thumbs up

momcat
January 9th, 2011, 04:10 PM
Ordered the new revised version from amazon.com (not that anything would be wrong with the original version). Can't wait for it to get here!

growler~GateKeeper
January 10th, 2011, 03:55 AM
Absolutely. I wouldnít dream of getting medication any other way except from our vet, never have.

:thumbs up

One of my saddest, most painful memories is from the time when my cat with heart disease was also in CRF and the CRF had progressed to the point where she wouldíve needed sub-Q fluids to make her feel better and to extend her life. She seemed okay after the first treatment but the second treatment sent her into congestive heart failure. I had to rush her to the vet where they put her in an oxygen tent and treated her with strong diuretics. They saved her life on that day and she was able to come home and go on, but I had to stand by helplessly and let the CRF progress without the most essential treatment that couldíve been helping her.

I'm sorry to hear the difficulties your cat had with CHF & CRF :grouphug: My girl had 3 good years after diagnosis thanks to homeopathy & Intramuscular Stimulation (IMS) (http://www.istop.org/ims.html) until the Lymphoma she couldn't overcome. That initial diagnosis is what propelled me to find non-conventional treatments that could be employed immediately.

IMS might be something to consider for your girl if there is a practitioner in your area, IMS uses accupuncture needles to penetrate deep into muscles that have shortened/tightened due to constant distress, something which could be affecting the muscles that surround the stomach & bowels, especially given the IBD.

I canít thank you enough for all the help youíve given me. I have saved this thread and Iím reading, re-reading all your posts and will do so many, many more times. They are giving me the direction I didnít have, couldnít find, before our conversations. Iím very, very grateful to you for that. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. This is not a good-bye, just a heartfelt thank you to let you know how much I appreciate all your help.

I just hope it helps your girl :grouphug:

momcat
January 10th, 2011, 03:57 PM
I'm sorry to hear the difficulties your cat had with CHF & CRF My girl had 3 good years after diagnosis thanks to homeopathy & Intramuscular Stimulation (IMS) until the Lymphoma she couldn't overcome. That initial diagnosis is what propelled me to find non-conventional treatments that could be employed immediately.

Oh I'm so very sorry you had to lose your baby to lymphoma. That's incredibly sad. Heartbreaking.

I don't think I've ever heard of Intramuscular Stimulation, so thank you so much for the info.

IMS might be something to consider for your girl if there is a practitioner in your area, IMS uses accupuncture needles to penetrate deep into muscles that have shortened/tightened due to constant distress, something which could be affecting the muscles that surround the stomach & bowels, especially given the IBD.

When I think about it IMS sounds more promising than acupuncture for this type of problem. I'll have to find out if anybody is doing it in this area.