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Idiopathic Eosinophilic Meningitis and probable Vaccinosis

Rgeurts
November 5th, 2010, 01:46 PM
As some of you know, we had an appt. to see a holistic vet. LP had went to Dr. Dodds seminar in ONT. a couple of weeks ago and put me in contact with Dr. Dodds (Thank you soooo much LP!! :2huggers::highfive:).

Dr. Dodds had me email her some of Nanook's test results, health and vaccine history etc. After reviewing, she said she believes he has Vaccinosis and asked that we start treatment to detox him of the vaccines. She was speaking at a seminar in Kentucky that day along with a holistic vet from Edmonton, Dr. Steve Marsden. She spoke with him regarding Nanook and he asked that I email him, so I did.

He responded saying that he thinks Nanook should be seen by his clinic, but that he himself, would not have time as he is very busy and does not see new patients. He asked that I forward Nanook's file to his clinic and schedule an appt. I was very hesitant as it was him I would have liked to see since he and Dr. Dodds know each other very well. So I was a bit disappointed. But I did as he requested and had our vet fax over all his files.

Later that evening I got an email from Dr. Marsden saying he was quite alarmed by Nanooks physical state, the harsh medications he is on and more than anything, by the most recent bloodwork and said he wanted to see Nanook himself, sooner rather than later.

I was bit confused and didn't know whether to be happy that we were actually going to get to see him, or extremely worried that he now wanted to see Nanook himself due to the test results, so I was a bit of both :laughing:

We had our first visit yesterday morning. I meant to write yesterday, but ended up at the hospital with DH and didn't get home until midnight.

Dr. Marsden believes that Nanook does have vaccinosis, but doesn't believe that is the main reason for his problems. He believes Nanook has severe digestive issues (which DH and I can attest to :eek: :yuck:) and he thinks that the vaccines aggravated the condition and fed fuel to the fire causing an immune mediated response (Eosinophilic Syndrome). He went on to explain how the body works from a holistic view and said he knew it would be a leap of faith for us to try and believe that his digestive system could cause all the problems, including the seizures, and he is right. But at this point, maybe a leap of faith is what's needed, so we plunged!

He has put Nanook on 2 different herbs and said he eventually wants to get Nanook off all the harsh medications that are slowly killing him, but said he's smart enough to know that those same medications are also keeping him alive and helping control the seizures, so he won't do it until he's sure we have his digestive system back on the right track. He said a lot of things and had another vet with him so she will be familiar and be able to help for the times he is out of town. I have always been such a skeptic about holistic treatments, but it's time to have some faith and believe that this will work.

He isn't going to detox him for the vaccines for 2 reasons. He said the vaccines were given so long ago and even though it may still be able to detox him, his body is too weak to undergo such a detox at this point.

He said with the treatment he's on now, we should notice an improvement in several areas within the next week such as consistent stools, more energy, less restlessness at night and should not see him foraging for food all the time. He said we should also notice him not wanting to eat dirt, rocks, concrete etc (he is obsessed with a patch of lawn we reseeded and tries to grab a mouthful of the soil every time we walk by it). He said if we notice all the improvements, we are on the right track. If not, he will have to rethink everything. So here's hoping!!

One thing he did say was that all the events we see that the specialist and our regular vet have stated are probably neurological events, are most likely not. Such as the swimming while he's laying on his side. He thinks that's just an invitation to play (Nanook did it while we were there). And the biting of our feet and ankles (he only does it once in awhile, but it's weird) he thinks is just him being playful as he may have a moment or 2 of "feeling good" despite all the problems. He said we've probably never seen the real Nanook due to all of the medications and health problems and that he hopes, with his help and the treatment he has planned, we will finally get to "meet" our puppy for the first time :cry: :cloud9: :lovestruck:

Sorry for the long post, but there was just so much information! And again, a HUGE thank you to luckypenny for caring enough to get this ball rolling for us :angel2:

Love4himies
November 5th, 2010, 02:06 PM
Wow, I hope you get some good results :pray:

So did he mention anything about changing his diet to a raw/natural diet?

breeze
November 5th, 2010, 02:12 PM
LP is such a sweetie :grouphug:

hope that you get good results!!!! :goodvibes::goodvibes:

Dog Dancer
November 5th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Awesome news. I sure hope this is the miracle that Nanook needs to get himself back on track with life. I'm sure your leap of faith will be rewarded! I'm so happy to hear that you were able to see the Dr. you wanted, and now we'll be waiting for multiple positive updates. Yay yay yay, this is a happy day for all of us who have been following Nanooks story. :grouphug: Bless you for taking such good care of your baby no matter what, I'm sure it has been daunting.

Rgeurts
November 5th, 2010, 02:15 PM
Wow, I hope you get some good results :pray:

So did he mention anything about changing his diet to a raw/natural diet?

He did mention that we will have to change his diet, but not right now. He said a natural diet, but didn't specifically mention raw. So I'm not sure what he has planned as far as that goes. He did say it would be down the road a bit. He wants to stabilize him a bit more before any other changes are made. If the treatment is working in a week he is removing the Pancreas-V from his diet as the first step :)

Rgeurts
November 5th, 2010, 02:20 PM
LP is such a sweetie :grouphug:

She is indeed :cloud9:



Awesome news. I sure hope this is the miracle that Nanook needs to get himself back on track with life. I'm sure your leap of faith will be rewarded! I'm so happy to hear that you were able to see the Dr. you wanted, and now we'll be waiting for multiple positive updates. Yay yay yay, this is a happy day for all of us who have been following Nanooks story. :grouphug: Bless you for taking such good care of your baby no matter what, I'm sure it has been daunting.

It has been lol, but he's worth it. Our doggies are our kids :)
I'm hoping to give those multiple positive updates starting this week!
Thank you so much for all the kind words :grouphug:

rainbow
November 5th, 2010, 02:39 PM
Wow, this is such great news. :highfive:

I am really surprised that you got a reply from Dr Dodds and an appointment with Dr Marsden so quickly though considering that they're both so busy. I sure hope that Dr Marsden's diagnosis puts Nanook on the road to recovery. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

hazelrunpack
November 5th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Sending :goodvibes: that Nanook responds well!!!!! Keeping all :fingerscr...not to mention crossed :pawprint:s...that you see improvements soon!!!!

Magicwildwolf69
November 5th, 2010, 04:35 PM
:goodvibes::goodvibes: That you see improvements in a week and he feels better!

luckypenny
November 5th, 2010, 05:30 PM
One thing he did say was that all the events we see that the specialist and our regular vet have stated are probably neurological events, are most likely not. Such as the swimming while he's laying on his side. He thinks that's just an invitation to play (Nanook did it while we were there). And the biting of our feet and ankles (he only does it once in awhile, but it's weird) he thinks is just him being playful as he may have a moment or 2 of "feeling good" despite all the problems. He said we've probably never seen the real Nanook due to all of the medications and health problems and that he hopes, with his help and the treatment he has planned, we will finally get to "meet" our puppy for the first time :cry: :cloud9: :lovestruck:

My only words of advice here for when Nanook is feeling much better is, "watch out!!!" :crazy:. :laughing: Nothing like a playful adolescent pup in the house :D :cloud9:.

I wish you all nothing but the best outcome possible :goodvibes: :grouphug:.

I am really surprised that you got a reply from Dr Dodds...

She's very accessible, even when she's traveling for seminars or for out-of-country research projects. She explained that she reviews test results personally every evening and tries to get back to all her emails asap. My greatest impression is she's not just an incredible vet/researcher, she's a warm, caring person.

14+kitties
November 5th, 2010, 05:54 PM
You have my continued support and prayers for Nooky. I love him like he was one of mine. :cloud9: Sending tons of :goodvibes::pray: for you, your hubby and your babies. :grouphug:

Chris21711
November 5th, 2010, 07:12 PM
This sounds so promising Rguerts....I'm praying hard that this is the solution and Nanook can be the pup he so deserves.

mastifflover
November 5th, 2010, 10:56 PM
Oh yeah I am so glad to hear some real positive news for Nanook. I think getting Nanook off all the drugs will be great especially if everything could be controlled by herbs and diet. Agreed you and your hubby are Nanooks angels.
Great news keep us updated and heres to solid poop:thumbs up

Rgeurts
November 6th, 2010, 12:23 AM
Thanks all! And ya, most of the time, he doesn't know he's sick :)
He sleeps a lot, and when he plays he's very weak and clumsy, but it doesn't stop him!

He had SUCH a wonderful day today!! He was up for a good 60 % of the day, normally he's up and moving around at feeding time and the occasional energy burst, but today was great! He was barking and howling a lot, biting me, pouncing on Thorin... he was just such a puppy :D
It really made my day. I think this is the most active he's been for a prolonged period since we've had him :D

mastifflover
November 6th, 2010, 08:48 AM
I feel like he may have a new lease on life. Nothing personal but I hope he keeps biting your ankles and pouncing on Thorin this is a real good sign.

hazelrunpack
November 6th, 2010, 03:12 PM
Don't ya love it when they have a good day? :highfive: Here's to many more of those to come! :goodvibes:

luckypenny
November 6th, 2010, 06:31 PM
How is Nanook today, Rgeurts?

Rgeurts
November 7th, 2010, 12:01 PM
Nanook was a bit sluggish again yesterday. Just seemed very tired and maybe had a sick tummy. The night before he pooped something ugly again :confused:
It looked like a piece of a soft frisbee (the kind with the rigid plastic boning covered in fabric, he pooped about a quarter of one). I have NO idea where he would have gotten it. We don't have anything like that and the daycare he's at now doesn't use toys at all. The only thing I can think of is the old daycare, but he hasn't been there in almost a month now :shrug:
I think we're going to have to do as our vet said a couple of weeks ago and put him on a low calorie food then increase the amount he gets so he feels fuller.

But this morning he is SO perky and happy! I was standing at the top of the stairs, hubby was at the bottom with him and he was just howling at me and trying to get over the baby gate. I came down and he just attacked me lol. He was howling, pawing at me, biting my feet and actually jumped on me (he's never done that before) lol. So I think today will be a good day. We're going to take him and Thorin out somewhere where they can just run and play for awhile :cloud9:

Rgeurts
November 7th, 2010, 01:12 PM
I had a great conversation with lp and she made a suggestion which I thought was great! Below are the holistic meds that Nanook is taking along with the links to the other threads regarding his condition and history. I was telling lp that I have spent hours researching the internet and other dog/pet forums trying to find even 1 person who has been in a similar situation with their dog, but with no luck. The only thing that comes up are my own posts here on pets. Hopefully if someone else has a dog with similar symptoms, this will help them (and their vet as not many vets are very familiar with his condition either) to possibly understand what is going on and find a treatment. It's still too soon to tell if the holistic treatment will work, but one thing I do know is that something has at least given him more energy to play and be a crazy, happy boy for the last few days :)

He's currently taking San Ren Tang-3 teaspoons twice daily and Calcarea Carbonica-5 pills once a day for 3 days, then 4 once a day for 3 days then 3 once a day until the vet tells us differently.

Below are the links to posts starting with the oldest (that are related to his condition, symptoms & treatments). He is also still on a traditional western treatment for Idiopathic Eosinophilic Meningitis which includes, at this point, 20mg Prednisone (10mg 2x daily), 120mg daily Phenobarbital (60mg 2x daily) and Azathioprine 75mg once every other day. He also takes, daily, Vi-Sorbits, Aller G-3 Omega 3 capsule, Fortiflora and then 1/2 tsp Pancreas-V with every meal (3x daily).

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70716


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70850


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70907


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71185


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71933


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72031


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=71990


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72210


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72650


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72750


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72865


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73101

We have managed to keep him with us for 6 months now with the current treatment. We're praying that the holistic treatment will allow for him to be eventually taken off the Prednisone, Phenobarbital and Azathioprine so his organs can heal and escape further damage :)

We still have no guarantees, of course, but whatever happens, at least we have gotten to love him (and laugh at him) for the time that we have.
He has energized Thorin, who now loves him being around as well! We never thought Thorin would actually "like" him. Our best hope was that he would "tolerate" him. So we are thankful for everything! :cloud9::lovestruck:

Anything new that happens I will put in this thread to keep it updated and not create any new ones.

rainbow
November 8th, 2010, 11:54 PM
Great idea to amalgamate all your posts regarding Nanook. :thumbs up

I have another suggestion though .....you should pm Marko and ask him to change the title of this thread to something that relates to Nanook's condition so it will show up when people do a search.

Did you ever find out where Nanook got the frisbee from? I sure hope the poor guy is doing okay now. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Rgeurts
November 9th, 2010, 11:46 AM
Great idea to amalgamate all your posts regarding Nanook. :thumbs up

I have another suggestion though .....you should pm Marko and ask him to change the title of this thread to something that relates to Nanook's condition so it will show up when people do a search.

Great idea! I'll do that today, thanks :)

Did you ever find out where Nanook got the frisbee from? I sure hope the poor guy is doing okay now. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Nope. The only place possible could have been the old daycare :rolleyes:
We know they were neglecting him (almost to the point of abuse). I'll be speaking with the owner just so she is aware. Otherwise, he seems to be doing pretty good :fingerscr:pray:

Rgeurts
November 11th, 2010, 10:11 AM
Morning all! We have had a few pretty good days! Nanook seems to be feeling MUCH better. He still lounges around a lot, but doesn't sleep as much. He's had a lot less gas than usual and when I picked him up from daycare on Tuesday, the girls said he is doing wonderfully! :D
The one said they normally have to poke him to make sure he's still alive, but the last few days he's been gurgling (it's a weird little howl he does), very playful and just seems to be feeling so much better! So... obviously the herbs are doing something for him. Even if they don't "cure" him, they're allowing him to be happy and feeling good :lovestruck::cloud9:

chico2
November 11th, 2010, 10:25 AM
That's great to read Robin,you all need some relief and hopefully more and more good days:pray::fingerscr:goodvibes::grouphug:

Sylvie
November 11th, 2010, 10:30 AM
Great news. :thumbs up

I am so happy for all of you. What would be do without LP.

Rgeurts
November 11th, 2010, 11:25 AM
That's great to read Robin,you all need some relief and hopefully more and more good days:pray::fingerscr:goodvibes::grouphug:

We are very happy with the results so far. He plays with hubby and I, he plays with Thorin, he plays with MIL... it's just wonderful :cloud9:


Great news. :thumbs up

I am so happy for all of you. What would be do without LP.

We are very thankful for LP, and everyone here. The support has been wonderful and you are all beautiful souls :lovestruck:

Chris21711
November 11th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Fantastic news :thumbs up

Rgeurts
November 12th, 2010, 12:37 AM
Hey guys, are any of you familiar with chondrodysplasia? Since monster has been so perky and playful the last few days, we've noticed something a little odd. We have always thought he was just clumsy from all the illness and meds, but we've noticed some deformities in his front quarters. I'm now thinking that what may be causing him to fall (he falls over a lot onto his front left shoulder with his bum in the air and then has a hard time getting back up). His front ankle joints are extremely large and lumpy looking, and tonight I noticed his left front paw is a good inch longer than the right, almost has a club look to it. He also is a few inches shorter than Thorin, but just as long and weighs 5 pounds more :shrug:

I will, of course, be asking the vet to take a look on Monday. But I was wondering if anyone has encountered this? I read one sight that said it seemed to only affect Malamutes, but then I was looking at an old post here of someone with a GSD that possibly had it.

Robyn

hazelrunpack
November 12th, 2010, 12:00 PM
It could still be just individual differences, illness and meds, Robyn, but worth looking into. In my limited experience, even if a condition is said to only affect one breed, a dog is a dog is a dog, at least genetically, and any canine malady can strike any individual. That being said, though, he's on some pretty powerful meds that may well be affecting his development and appearance (the 'pred head' you mentioned, for instance).

:fingerscr the vet can set your mind at ease. Holy catz, if it's not one thing to worry about, it's another, eh? :grouphug: Good luck on Monday! :goodvibes:

Rgeurts
November 12th, 2010, 01:16 PM
It could still be just individual differences, illness and meds, Robyn, but worth looking into. In my limited experience, even if a condition is said to only affect one breed, a dog is a dog is a dog, at least genetically, and any canine malady can strike any individual. That being said, though, he's on some pretty powerful meds that may well be affecting his development and appearance (the 'pred head' you mentioned, for instance).

:fingerscr the vet can set your mind at ease. Holy catz, if it's not one thing to worry about, it's another, eh? :grouphug: Good luck on Monday! :goodvibes:

I think I'm just so paranoid now lol. I'm not really worried too much about it though. Hubby and I don't care as long as he isn't so bad it prevents him from having some fun and doing his "business". If he does have it, it's very mild from what I have read and will affect appearance more than anything (except for a bit of clumsiness), which is fine. He's going to be our beautiful little guy regardless. But you are probably right. He is on some heavy meds, and we do know the pred has caused muscle loss.

Thank you Hazel :)

chico2
November 12th, 2010, 05:08 PM
I am not surprised you feel you are paranoid,I would be too..
Especially with little Nanook,it seems to be one thing after the other,he is so sweet and I can only :pray:he'll be alright in the end

Rgeurts
November 12th, 2010, 05:12 PM
I am not surprised you feel you are paranoid,I would be too..
Especially with little Nanook,it seems to be one thing after the other,he is so sweet and I can only :pray:he'll be alright in the end

Thank you chico! I think he will be alright, I really do! He's been doing so much better this last week. He's still had a couple days where his tummy was upset and he didn't feel like doing anything, but overall he's been so happy, playful and actually energetic on and off :cloud9:

Hubby and I are both very hopeful :)

mastifflover
November 12th, 2010, 08:45 PM
I am not surprised you feel you are paranoid,I would be too..
Especially with little Nanook,it seems to be one thing after the other,he is so sweet and I can only :pray:he'll be alright in the end

Really you all have been through so much who could blame you for being paranoid. Thank goodness Nanook was lucky enough to end up in a home that loves him and cares for him the way you do. He may not have been so lucky with someone else. You are an :angel: good luck on Monday

Rgeurts
November 12th, 2010, 09:52 PM
Thank you guys for all the kind words :)
I think we're actually the lucky ones though. DH and I have both learned SO much through this ordeal. And to be honest, it has helped us to remember what's important, which I think we both needed. He came to us for a reason :cloud9::lovestruck:

mastifflover
November 13th, 2010, 07:43 AM
Okay lets just call it a match made in heaven, anyhow you all benefited from this cosmic match:thumbs up.

Rgeurts
November 13th, 2010, 10:02 AM
Okay lets just call it a match made in heaven, anyhow you all benefited from this cosmic match:thumbs up.

:D:D:D

Deal!! :grouphug:

Rgeurts
November 18th, 2010, 05:55 PM
Nookie monster has been in very good spirits. He's been a lot more alert and bright eyed! He's still having some tummy issues, but we're hoping that will lessen as the pred dose lessens.

We saw Dr. Marsden a couple of days ago. He doesn't know if monster has Chondrodysplasia or not. There are tests that would need to be done. He did say he thinks it's may be more that the pred is starting to really damage his body. He thinks the pred has not only degraded the muscles in his head and face, but also in his front legs. He thinks Nookie is "hyper-extended" and that's what is causing the clumsiness and weakness when he plays (or even walks). He has a pretty severe limp in his left front now for about the last week. Dr. Marsden did acupuncture and adjusted his neck, but it hasn't seemed to help the limp. As far as the things in his mouth, it is Pappillomavirus. Dr. Marsden said as long as Nookie is on the pred and azathioprine, it's not going to go away because he's much too immo-suppressed, so we have dropped the pred down to 15mg daily for a week then down to 10mg daily and hopefully we won't see any seizures :pray::fingerscr

But everything considered, we're still very happy with his alertness and willingness to play with us and Thorin :cloud9:

Chris21711
November 18th, 2010, 06:00 PM
Thanks for the update Rguerts, I've been wondering how the little guy was doing....keeping my fingers tightly crossed for Nookie.

hazelrunpack
November 18th, 2010, 09:28 PM
I'm glad he's in good spirits despite his troubles, Rgeurts! He's such a cutie! :lovestruck:

:fingerscr he's able to get off the pred entirely soon with no seizures!

luckypenny
November 18th, 2010, 10:18 PM
All my best wishes and prayers that Nanook continues to get better :grouphug:.

chico2
November 19th, 2010, 09:32 AM
Aww Nookie-Monster,it seems like a lot to handle for a young dog,but it's also probably a plus that he's young,just like with people.
It's good to hear he's still in good spirit:grouphug:

Rgeurts
November 19th, 2010, 02:05 PM
Well, monster is headed back to the vet today. His stools have been black since night before last. We knew his tummy was bothering him, but didn't realize anything was really wrong (we thought it was just upset from the pred). I called and spoke with our usual clinic yesterday evening and the vet said not to worry about it unless he starts vomitting black or his stools turn to diarrhea, or if he becomes very lethargic and not wanting to eat/drink. This morning I got a call from daycare saying he had vomited, but just food, no blood.

The vet telling me not to worry about it (the same one who said we were feeding him enough when we were actually starving him :mad:) did not make me comfortable, so I called the holistic clinic this morning, who called Dr. Marsden and he said to bring him in asap. I know black, tarry stools means ingested blood. That's never something to "not worry about". So, wish us luck with our lil guy today. Hopefully it's nothing too serious :fingerscr :pray:

Robyn

chico2
November 19th, 2010, 04:46 PM
oh no,Robyn:(
What else is going to happen,I would kip that first vet,if he does not know black feces usually means something is wrong then he's not much of a vet.
:pray:the visit with your other vet went well:pray:

Rgeurts
November 19th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Nookie had the visit with Dr. Marsden today. After 2 series of blood tests and an exam, he said Nookie is close to critical. He has severe anemia, only about 1/3 the red blood cells that he should have. He isn't quite to the point of needing a transfusion, but close. His thyroid has shut down as well. He thinks that weaning him off the Azathioprine is no longer an option, we need to stop immediately. He still wants to wean the Pred down. He *hopes* that the herbs he has him on will control the inflammation enough to keep the seizures at bay. We *hope* he is right. He has Giardia again as well and the stool sample has been sent off to the lab to check for blood, though I don't think we need a test to determine that. His stools are almost a charcoal black now :(

He put him on another herb that will help stop any internal bleeding that may be happening. But he seems to think the anemia is caused soley by the medications and that by removing them, he will be able to heal. He said if we leave him on the drugs, he will be surprised if he lasts more than 6 months. One good thing is that his liver function is almost back to the normal range, so the herbs have to be helping somewhat (his liver enzymes were VERY high 3 weeks ago).

I have to say that I'm not really that confident in removing the drugs. I just worry that maybe he's wrong and Nookie has some sort of internal injury that's causing the anemia. After all, Shaun and I both know that he eats just about anything he can get his little mouth on. If he does have an internal injury and we just go with the holistic treatment and end up causing more damage to him, or he doesn't make it because we made a bad decision, I don't think I would be able to forgive myself :cry::cry:

I just don't really know what to do for our baby :(

luckypenny
November 19th, 2010, 06:10 PM
Rgeurts, did you share your suspicions that Nanook may have an internal injury? Perhaps an ultrasound may ease your mind before making any changes to his meds?

I'm so friggen sorry this is happening to you and Nanook :grouphug:.

Chris21711
November 19th, 2010, 06:44 PM
Ratz Rguerts I'm so sorry to hear this news....you have such a hard decision on your hands. I wish I could be of some help to you...all I can do is pray :pray:

Rgeurts
November 19th, 2010, 07:23 PM
:(Rgeurts, did you share your suspicions that Nanook may have an internal injury? Perhaps an ultrasound may ease your mind before making any changes to his meds?

I'm so friggen sorry this is happening to you and Nanook :grouphug:.

Thank you lp :grouphug:
We did express the concern that he may have ingested something that may have hurt him. Dr. Marsden said the herb that he gave us today is one they would use in the case of internal bleeding, so should help if that's what's going on. We did consider an ultra-sound, but the last time he had bad tummy troubles we left him with the clinic for the day. They took like 15 x-rays, a barrium swallow and an ultrasound (he still has a bare tummy from it) and said they couldn't see anything they would "hang their hats on" and were confident there was no blockage and gave a motility drug. That same night he pooped a sock covered in barrium. Then within 5 days he had pooped 2 more socks and a whole rope chew toy. If they didn't see any of that with all those tests, it's hard to think they would see a tear or some other damage :shrug:

I guess for us, it's more the fact that our savings are pretty much depleted. I haven't sold my car yet, so that doesn't help. We could afford the ultrasound and x-rays, but if something else happens and he has to go to emergency, we wouldn't have the money to cover it (if we spent the $1,000 it would cost for an ultrasound and x-rays) and they make you put down a deposit for the low side of the estimate then make you sign a waiver giving them permission to euthanize if you don't pay the balance (which for us has always been the high side of the estimate) at the time of pick-up. We would be able to get a loan, but that takes a few days, so the emergency hospital wouldn't treat him. I'd hate to waste what we do have left on any tests that may not show anything. I know whatever is meant to be will be. And I'm sure I'll sell my car soon, so it will be fine. It just gets so frustrating to think we've come this far, and he's been doing so well, and now we may lose him because we've already wasted so much on tests that haven't shown anything at all and possibly greedy people who took advantage of the fact that we love him.
I'm sorry, I'm just ranting. I know everything will be ok, we just have to get over this hurdle. I may just go ahead and call our regular vet tomorrow and get him in for an ultrasound anyway.

luckypenny
November 19th, 2010, 07:28 PM
Do you think there's any chance he's swallowed some other treasures? Are the symptoms the same as the last time?

Mirela
November 19th, 2010, 08:34 PM
Would he be strong enough to have exploratory surgery instead of the ultrasound and more possible inconclusive tests?

Rgeurts
November 19th, 2010, 10:05 PM
Do you think there's any chance he's swallowed some other treasures? Are the symptoms the same as the last time?

Yes, they are. He started with being gassy, having small bowel movements and burping over the last few days. I told Shaun I thought he was going to pass something any day now. So I'm still thinking there may be something in there :shrug:

Would he be strong enough to have exploratory surgery instead of the ultrasound and more possible inconclusive tests?

I don't think so. He's been on Azathioprine for almost 6 weeks now, and high doses of Prednisone for almost 4 months. His immune system is non-existent which is why he has Pappillomavirus and Giardia. I think his blood count is also much too low to withstand it. Hubby and I were discussing that today. But I will be talking to our regular vet tomorrow and plan to ask.

14+kitties
November 19th, 2010, 10:15 PM
I don't have anything to say but hang in there. Know that we are praying for all of you. :grouphug::fingerscr:goodvibes::pray:

Rgeurts
November 20th, 2010, 03:14 AM
I don't have anything to say but hang in there. Know that we are praying for all of you. :grouphug::fingerscr:goodvibes::pray:

Thank you 14+, that's most appreciated. We need all we can get :grouphug:

chico2
November 20th, 2010, 09:45 AM
Robyn,same as 14+:pray:for Nanook,you and DH:pray:
There is nothing I can do or say to help,this morning tears were falling for the little guy:(
All your efforts and your love for Nanook,just has to be rewarded..
I can understand the incredibly difficult decision you have to make,who do you trust with Nanooks life:(

Rgeurts
November 20th, 2010, 10:19 PM
Ratz Rguerts I'm so sorry to hear this news....you have such a hard decision on your hands. I wish I could be of some help to you...all I can do is pray :pray:

Thank you so much Chris :grouphug:
We will take all the prayers we can get. We need them now more than ever.


Robyn,same as 14+:pray:for Nanook,you and DH:pray:
There is nothing I can do or say to help,this morning tears were falling for the little guy:(
All your efforts and your love for Nanook,just has to be rewarded..
I can understand the incredibly difficult decision you have to make,who do you trust with Nanooks life:(

Thank you chico, and I hope and :pray: that it is rewarded. At this point, we're going on pure faith.

Nookie had a bad night. He was pacing, restless and even a little whiny at times. He didn't want to eat this morning, which is a really bad sign considering he will eat anything that he can get in his little mouth. He was so weak that Shaun had to carry him to the car.

We spent about 7.5 hours at the vet today. Our regular vet was so upset when she saw how bad he was. She had to repeat all the tests that were done at the holistic clinic yesterday because they didn't fax them to her. Her first thought was that he did ingest something he shouldn't have, until she got the results of his blood count. He is critical at this point. She said if he had an injury that caused him to bleed internally, he would have been gone once his blood count hit about 13%. Nookies red cell count was at 8.8%. She said with a blood count that low he would have been bleeding internally at a slow pace for a few weeks. Slow enough that his body adjusted to the lower cell count and allowed him to live longer. But at where he is now, with the symptoms he has, she said had we not brought him in, he would have been gone by morning. So I'm SO thankful we took him to see her and not just waited it out like we were told yesterday. She thinks now that he probably has ulcers in his stomach and intestines, caused by the prednisone and azathioprine. She agreed that we have to take him off both of them.
She did several blood and fecal tests along with x-rays.

Nookie had a blood transfusion this evening. Our vet said we will most likely be back in for another by Monday because they don't know where the bleeding is coming from and that the medication may not stop it. We won't be giving him any more pred or azathioprine, so he will most likely start seizuring again and the meningitis will relapse unless the herbal powder can keep the inflammation under control. That's what she is hoping for (and us).

I'll keep you all updated. And thank you for all the good thoughts, vibes and prayers. Our little monster needs them :cry: :(

TeriM
November 20th, 2010, 11:53 PM
I'm so sorry Rgeurts. You and Nanook will be in my thoughts and prayers :goodvibes: :pray: :goodvibes:.

growler~GateKeeper
November 21st, 2010, 02:47 AM
:2huggers: :goodvibes: :goodvibes:

chico2
November 21st, 2010, 09:41 AM
I am at loss for words,I can only hope little Nanook will hang in there and get better,it's just not fair:grouphug:

14+kitties
November 21st, 2010, 09:50 AM
:fingerscr:goodvibes::pray: and more! Thinking of you, your hubby and your boys. :grouphug::grouphug:

free
November 21st, 2010, 12:14 PM
prays going out to you guys

hazelrunpack
November 21st, 2010, 02:26 PM
Just wanted to send some :goodvibes: and good wishes and let you know we're thinking of you all! :grouphug:

Rgeurts
November 21st, 2010, 03:00 PM
I spoke with our vet this morning to give her an update. She said after a lot of thought overnight she has decided to leave him on the pred and azathioprine for now and just wean him off both slowly, as originally planned. She's pretty positive that if we just stop them both, he will definitely seizure again. She said with his blood count so critical, a seizure would probably kill him. She said after going over all the tests again, she has determined that he is losing blood, as she thought, but also that his body is having a very hard time generating new blood cells because of the immuno-suppression. She feels that if we can stop the bleeding and continue the transfusions while weaning him down, his cell count should be high enough to withstand a seizure, should he have one. It makes sense to us. She still wants us to continue the herbal treatment that Dr. Marsden has Nookie on in hopes that it will stop the bleeding and reuce the inflammation enough to get him stable and hold him there for awhile.

On the upside, Nookie gave us some good smiles this morning. Hubby took him out for a poo, and it wasn't black! When he came back in, he was bright eyed (the first time in days) and hungry!! I fed him some hamburger and rice and he wanted to keep eating. The vet said to load him up on some freeze dried liver if he will eat... and boy did he! He actually got excited and starting giving me high fives for more :cloud9::lovestruck:

It's amazing what we take for granted... the last few days I would have given anything for a high five from him, and now he's giving em like mad for his treats. We still need to keep him quiet for a few days, but just the fact that he's looking perkier and has his appetite again is wonderful :)

Robyn

chico2
November 21st, 2010, 04:44 PM
Robyn,that's great,made my day:grouphug:

Rgeurts
November 22nd, 2010, 10:36 PM
Nookie had his follow-up visit today. Our vet did more blood work. His RBC went from 8.8% on Saturday evening to 14% today! Hubby asked if that was because of the transfusion and the vet said no, it was because he is generating red blood cells "like mad" :D

They will be doing another blood test on Friday and sending it off to the lab. They are going to check for something (can't remember what she called it) to see if the blood cells are actually maturing. They also did an ultrasound on his chest/stomach to check for free floating fluids to make sure he isn't losing blood into his chest cavity or abdomen and all looks well. His organs and everything inside all look normal except for 1 adrenal gland but they think it's because of the pred and weren't too concerned about it. We are stopping the Azathioprine and dropping the pred to 5mg daily and praying he doesn't have a seizure. All in all, he's doing very well today!! His appetite is back, he's being silly, though a bit lethargic which is to be expected at only 14% RBC. Our vet said most dogs would be dead at 13%. Everyone at the clinic was absolutely amazed he made it through the weekend, including our vet. He's such a little fighter :cloud9: :lovestruck:

chico2
November 23rd, 2010, 08:17 AM
Robyn,Nookie is an amazing pup for sure and you and DH are amazing too:grouphug:
:pray:For continued good days:fingerscr:goodvibes:

hazelrunpack
November 23rd, 2010, 10:46 PM
Oh, great news! :goodvibes: Keep fighting, Nanook!!!!

Rgeurts
November 24th, 2010, 04:36 PM
Robyn,Nookie is an amazing pup for sure and you and DH are amazing too:grouphug:
:pray:For continued good days:fingerscr:goodvibes:

Thank you chico! He truly is an amazing pup, such a strong little boy :lovestruck:
Hubby and I are just doing what anyone else here would do for their babies... everything within your means :)

Oh, great news! :goodvibes: Keep fighting, Nanook!!!!

He's fighting!! :)

14+kitties
November 24th, 2010, 04:43 PM
:thumbs up:cry::goodvibes::fingerscr:pray: And everything else that I can send. Nookie - you are an amazing pup!! Mom and Dad are pretty neat too!!

Rgeurts
November 24th, 2010, 05:23 PM
:thumbs up:cry::goodvibes::fingerscr:pray: And everything else that I can send. Nookie - you are an amazing pup!! Mom and Dad are pretty neat too!!

Thank you 14+!!! He amazes everyone here! Vets, friends... hubby and I :)

Rgeurts
November 24th, 2010, 05:24 PM
Nookie wasn't doing too well yesterday morning. I had the day off to stay with him, he's too weak for daycare right now. He wouldn't eat yesterday morning, wouldn't lift his little head and barely managed to open his eyes halfway to look at me. I was terrified and called the vet. They told me to take him to a vet in own (our vet is almost an hour away) and have a blood test done. I called and scheduled an appt. and I was just getting ready to put his boots and sweater on him when he got up, shook and walked over to his bowl and ate :confused: :shrug:
I was baffled, to say the least. Apparently he had done the same thing with Shaun the day before, prior to going to the vet. He had very stinky gas and was burping prior to getting up. We finally noticed a pattern! Anywhere from an hour and a half to 2 hours after getting the 3rd of his tummy pills(he gets 3, 1 hour apart for each), he would get up and get perky again.

I took him in for the blood test anyway, just to ease my mind. I was afraid his RBC was falling even more and making him so lethargic. The vet called last night and said the clinic I went to had only requested a partial CBC, so she contacted the lab and had them run the additional tests she needed. She said his RBC was up to 18%!! :D :D
She had the clinic call me this morning to give the results of the rest of the test and asked them to let me know the results are "beautiful!". He's regenerating red blood cells and they are maturing :thumbs up :cloud9:

Our vet seems to think the lethargy is due to a sick tummy and nothing more at this point, so it took a load off our minds!! He has passed some pretty surprising "objects" in the last few days, courtesy of the old daycare :mad: :frustrated:. We are thinking there is still something in his intestines and that's what's making him sick, so hopefully he will pass it soon.

He was playing with Thorin last night, barking and howling at mama and being a cute, silly boy again. He really has been a tough little guy, and a miracle up to this point :lovestruck: :cloud9:

hazelrunpack
November 24th, 2010, 08:55 PM
So glad that his RBC metabolism is normalizing!!! :highfive: And I do hope his lethargy is just tummy upset from the pills and not some foreign object working its way through... :frustrated: Nanook, you have to stop noshing on the world! The whole world is NOT edible! :o

TeriM
November 25th, 2010, 01:42 AM
More good vibes for Nanook :goodvibes: :fingerscr :goodvibes:.

chico2
November 25th, 2010, 08:18 AM
Robyn,I am always a little worried opening your posts,I think we all want so badly for him to get 100% well.
As for the day-care,don't they watch the dogs to make sure they don't eat everything:mad:

Marty11
November 25th, 2010, 08:53 AM
I can't believe I just read this post. I'm so sorry Robyn what your going through with your pup. :( I'm sending lots of prayers for a recovery. :pray::pray::pray:

catlover2
November 25th, 2010, 09:52 AM
I just read thro all this thread, and am sorry to hear what you've been going thro with Nanook. It really has been a roller coaster for you and the pup. I haven't noticed it in any of the other postings, but it seems this pup just can't stop ingesting stuff (sox, plastic, whatever) and that this is a lot of his problem. Wouldn't it make sense to have a muzzle on him at all times, so he can't eat anything, only take it off when he eats? You can't trust the daycare people to catch that he doesn't eat something he shouldn't. Hopefully when he's older, he'll grow out of this habit of eating stuff. My son's year old Lab ate a sock and it blocked his intestine, and it cost him $4000 (Seattle area) in surgery to remove it. So far I think you've been lucky that he hasn't developed a blockage. I dunno, if Nanook was my dog, I'd have a muzzle on him until he proved he can be trusted not to eat "junk".

Rgeurts
November 25th, 2010, 12:19 PM
Robyn,I am always a little worried opening your posts,I think we all want so badly for him to get 100% well.
As for the day-care,don't they watch the dogs to make sure they don't eat everything:mad:

He's been to 2 different daycares. The first he started going to a week after we got him, and it's awesome. The owner just adores him and the girls are very good. They even made him a special pen that has a floor drain for when he pees (courtesy of the pred :rolleyes:), put only 1 dog at a time in with him so he can play, fix his food special with all his pancreas-v and supplements and call me at the first sign of any trouble. The problem started when the owner hired a girl who thought we were neglecting Nanook and not feeding him properly. She insisted that we needed to feed him a raw diet even though I had told her the specialist (who is pro-raw btw) said he cannot have anything raw, even veggies and that raw meat could kill him with no immune system. But everytime I picked him up, she would corner me, insist that I go to her "meat guy" with her and "start taking care of Nanook". Needless to say, I was livid. Hubby and I have done everything within our power to take care of him and decided someone like her could be dangerous. We were afraid she was going to bring in raw food and feed him, so we found a different daycare.

I had spoken with the owner (very nice lady) and advised her of all his problems. She said they could handle it and her girls were great. The last time I took him there was 6 weeks ago. They were given instructions he was NOT to be crated because our specialist said it could stress him out and cause a seizure, or have access to any toys whatsoever because he has pica and would ingest them. When I picked him up the last time, he was frantic. He ran outside and peed. His urine was almost a dark orange and stunk. They had to have crated him for several hours. He pees clear because of the pred, but will not pee in a crate. I got him home and he had a seizure 40 mins later, after being seizure free for 9 and a half weeks :(

3 weeks after, he starting pooping pieces of a toy so I called them. They said they didn't give him anything at all and it didn't come from there. Luckily I took a picture of what he pooped :eek::yuck:
On Sunday he pooped part of the same toy, but a different color! So Monday I went to the daycare, and sure enough, what he had been pooping out was hanging right on the wall for sale, in BOTH colors! :frustrated: :yell:
I immediately called the owner, told her everything that had happened. She tried to defend them saying they were well aware he was not to have any toys or anything he could ingest, so he didn't get it from there. I told her I had a pic of his poo and it matched the toys they use and I'd be happy to email it to her. She called me back later that day and apologized and said she would take care of it. She's just lucky I'm not the type of person to take her to court. It was pure neglect. I will, however, be leaving a complaint with the BBB and reviews so maybe others will be aware before leaving their kids with them.

The girl we were worried about is no longer at the old daycare, so that's where he has been going the last 6 weeks. I am very confident with them. They just adore him and they do not use toys at all. :)

I can't believe I just read this post. I'm so sorry Robyn what your going through with your pup. :( I'm sending lots of prayers for a recovery. :pray::pray::pray:

Thank you Marty11, all prayers are welcome and appreciated :)


I just read thro all this thread, and am sorry to hear what you've been going thro with Nanook. It really has been a roller coaster for you and the pup. I haven't noticed it in any of the other postings, but it seems this pup just can't stop ingesting stuff (sox, plastic, whatever) and that this is a lot of his problem. Wouldn't it make sense to have a muzzle on him at all times, so he can't eat anything, only take it off when he eats? You can't trust the daycare people to catch that he doesn't eat something he shouldn't. Hopefully when he's older, he'll grow out of this habit of eating stuff. My son's year old Lab ate a sock and it blocked his intestine, and it cost him $4000 (Seattle area) in surgery to remove it. So far I think you've been lucky that he hasn't developed a blockage. I dunno, if Nanook was my dog, I'd have a muzzle on him until he proved he can be trusted not to eat "junk".

Hi catlover2, Nanook does have a problem with ingesting inedible objects. He has pica. It's not due to him being a bad puppy, it's due to his health issues and all the medications he is on, he has no control over it. We're hoping that someday it will change, but that's actually one of the lesser problems he has. We do muzzle him when he goes outside, but not in the house. Most of the problems occurred prior to us knowing he had pica. We caught him trying to eat a sock about 3 months ago, took it away and he immediately went and grabbed another and tried to swallow if before we could catch him. Hubby had to reach in to his throat and pull it out. Since then we have removed anything he could eat. Our home is now very puppy proof. He's not even allowed toys unless we are right there watching him play. The toys are then put away when he's done, or thrown out if they become damaged. The problem has stemmed from daycare and irresponsible people watching him. It took about 3 weeks for him to pass the socks he did ingest before we realized what was happening and about a month to pass a rope chew toy, and between 3 and 6 weeks passing the toys from daycare. We feel very fortunate that he has not had a blockage.

Chris21711
November 25th, 2010, 12:44 PM
Just reading your above post Rgeurts makes me shake my head in disbelief of everything you are all having to endure.

:pray::pray: sent you way.

Love4himies
November 25th, 2010, 12:53 PM
This pup has really had it's problems :( :grouphug:

What in raw food would kill him? If he has such a compromised immune system then to me, he shouldn't be in a daycare with other pups that could pass on viruses, parasites and bacteria that would normally be pretty harmless in healthy dogs.

Also, if he truly does want to chew something due to his pica, then muzzling, if you can't crate him, is really a good idea. It is unreasonable to watch a dog 24/7, you have to sleep and work sometime :eek:. I know somebody whose dog chewed up their sofa cushions :evil: (brand new sofa too), so there is always something for a dog to chew on, if it wants to. I hope he does grow out of it :goodvibes::goodvibes::goodvibes:, that can be so dangerous and he doesn't need that on top of his other health issues :( :grouphug:

Rgeurts
November 25th, 2010, 01:59 PM
This pup has really had it's problems :( :grouphug:

What in raw food would kill him?

They told us it was parasites and bacteria that are present in raw food, even frozen would have some amount. Most dogs are fine with it and fight it off without a problem, but because of the Eosinophillic Syndrome, prednisone and azathioprine, his immune system is non-existant.

If he has such a compromised immune system then to me, he shouldn't be in a daycare with other pups that could pass on viruses, parasites and bacteria that would normally be pretty harmless in healthy dogs.

We did ask the vet about that. She said even walking outside to go to the bathroom will expose him. Our other boy, Thorin, could expose him as well. As for the daycare, she asked if he enjoyed going or got stressed out. We told her he really enjoys it. She said we can't put him in a bubble and that he needs to have a bit of fun to nurture his spirit, and that dogs, like people, get depressed. She feels that could be just as detrimental as the physical ailments. The daycare he's at now, they have made him a special pen to keep him away from the other dogs. They have one dog that Nanook just loves, his name is Chance. They put Chance with him so they can play. Also, we don't really have a choice. Hubby and I both have to work to pay his huge vet bills :eek:

Also, if he truly does want to chew something due to his pica, then muzzling, if you can't crate him, is really a good idea. It is unreasonable to watch a dog 24/7, you have to sleep and work sometime :eek:.
I know somebody whose dog chewed up their sofa cushions :evil: (brand new sofa too), so there is always something for a dog to chew on, if it wants to. I hope he does grow out of it :goodvibes::goodvibes::goodvibes:, that can be so dangerous and he doesn't need that on top of his other health issues :( :grouphug:

He doesn't chew furniture at all (at least not to this point). It's just things he can get his mouth around, like toys, socks etc. He's been alone with cushions and has never chewed. At home, it isn't a problem at all anymore. We have it managed pretty well. And having Thorin, and us, to play with keeps him occupied. At night he sleeps with DH, myself and Thorin with the bedroom door closed. There is nothing for him to get in his mouth. He hasn't ingested anything recently. The last was at the previous daycare 6 weeks ago :rolleyes:, and it's still working it's way through.
We hope he grows out of it as well. We are down to a 5mg daily dose of pred and no azathioprine, so hopefully that will help :pray:

Rgeurts
November 25th, 2010, 02:08 PM
Just reading your above post Rgeurts makes me shake my head in disbelief of everything you are all having to endure.

:pray::pray: sent you way.

Thank you so much, Chris! :)

Love4himies
November 25th, 2010, 03:26 PM
He doesn't chew furniture at all (at least not to this point). It's just things he can get his mouth around, like toys, socks etc. He's been alone with cushions and has never chewed. At home, it isn't a problem at all anymore. We have it managed pretty well. And having Thorin, and us, to play with keeps him occupied. At night he sleeps with DH, myself and Thorin with the bedroom door closed. There is nothing for him to get in his mouth. He hasn't ingested anything recently. The last was at the previous daycare 6 weeks ago :rolleyes:, and it's still working it's way through.
We hope he grows out of it as well. We are down to a 5mg daily dose of pred and no azathioprine, so hopefully that will help :pray:

My friends dog didn't either, until one day she went home for lunch to let her dogs out and ........, well you can imagine what she discovered :eek:

Could chemicals from what he chews be causing some of his health issues? As well, if it doesn't pass through the digestive system quickly, then the immune system could be kicking in causing havoc :eek:.

Rgeurts
November 25th, 2010, 03:44 PM
My friends dog didn't either, until one day she went home for lunch to let her dogs out and ........, well you can imagine what she discovered :eek:

Could chemicals from what he chews be causing some of his health issues? As well, if it doesn't pass through the digestive system quickly, then the immune system could be kicking in causing havoc :eek:.

Well, from what they have told us, he has Eosinophillic Syndrome (which the specialist said is pretty much the equivalent of Lupus in a person). He was born with it, and now they are seriously considering the fact that the immunizations he got just escalated everything and completely screwed up his immune system, and most likely, now, has Vaccinosis as well. The holistic vet said it added fuel to the fire and that he never should have had any vaccines after the first seizure. But he did... they gave him a combo and rabies in the same day, which apparently is a big "no no", as well as dewormers (heart worms) and a seizure occurred the following day after 5 1/2 weeks of doing great. :shrug: .

The only things he's eaten are the socks and dog toys. I would *hope* there are no harmful chemicals in the toys, but I guess you never know. He's not a "chewer" at all. He just eats whatever he can fit in his little mouth. As for the furniture, I'm not too worried about it. Even though we don't watch him 24/7, we are there with him, in the same room, when he isn't at daycare. He's never left alone because if he seizures, he could die from 1) lack of oxygen 2) Aspiration and Pulmonary Edema (which happened with a seizure in the summer). Hubby and I go out once a month for a "date night" and MIL watches the monster. Otherwise, when he's at home, he's with us :)

I guess the reason he's finally passing everything now is because he was so anemic from the drugs that his digestive system wasn't working properly. Once he had the blood transfusion Saturday night, it kicked his digestive system into high gear and now it's pushing everything through. The vet said she wouldn't be surprised if some of it has been in his little gut for months :eek:

Love4himies
November 25th, 2010, 03:58 PM
The vet said she wouldn't be surprised if some of it has been in his little gut for months :eek:

:eek::eek::eek::eek: OMG

Rgeurts
November 25th, 2010, 04:02 PM
:eek::eek::eek::eek: OMG

I know!! Poor little monster...
Oh, he does eat other things (or did) like dirt, which he was obssessed with, small rocks and concrete chips, which is why he is muzzled to go potty now hehe :)

chico2
November 25th, 2010, 05:11 PM
I say it too,OMG:yell:
Some cheaper toys"made in China,might be toxic,maybe all the stuff he ate,is what made him sick in the first place:shrug:
I have to look up Pica,I've no idea what it is...
I am glad the day-care let that girl go and he's now back to the place he loves:grouphug:

Rgeurts
November 25th, 2010, 06:50 PM
I say it too,OMG:yell:
Some cheaper toys"made in China,might be toxic,maybe all the stuff he ate,is what made him sick in the first place:shrug:
I have to look up Pica,I've no idea what it is...
I am glad the day-care let that girl go and he's now back to the place he loves:grouphug:

Pica is an obsession with eating items that are inedible. I had never heard of it prior to all this. But apparently a lot of pregnant women get it :eek::eek:

We are so glad to be able to take him to the first daycare. I never worry about him at all when he's there, and he's always so happy when we pick him up :cloud9:

Chris21711
November 25th, 2010, 06:54 PM
Pica is an obsession with eating items that are inedible. I had never heard of it prior to all this. But apparently a lot of pregnant women get it :eek::eek:

:

Totally :offtopic: Rguerts...I was reading in the paper the other day that the eating of excessive ice cubes in humans is a sign of an "iron deficiency" and the Doctor writing the articles also called that "Pica".

Rgeurts
November 25th, 2010, 06:58 PM
Totally :offtopic: Rguerts...I was reading in the paper the other day that the eating of excessive ice cubes in humans is a sign of an "iron deficiency" and the Doctor writing the articles also called that "Pica".

LoL Chris, that wasn't :offtopic: :D
How weird... monster LOVES ice cubes too. When he gets bored we give him a few ice cubes... they will entertain him for as long as we keep giving them. I had a friend just recently who craved ice when she was pregant. It was SO funny... it had to be a certain type and the only place she could find it was at Ikea, so we would spend our lunch hour going to get her ice :shrug: :laughing:

Wonder if she had Pica??

Chris21711
November 25th, 2010, 07:08 PM
Wonder if she had Pica??

Funny that you mention that cos it said that sometimes women who are pregnant crave ice and it could be a sign of an iron deficiency....they didn't mention Ikea though :o

Rgeurts
November 27th, 2010, 07:49 PM
Monster went in for his follow-up CBC today. We had no idea how low his RBC was last Saturday when he had the transfusion. On Friday afternoon (last week) he was at 2.7, by Saturday around noon he was down to 1.25 :eek: :(

We leave for the states in a couple of weeks, so I got copies of all the recent blood tests to put in his file at home in case he has to see a vet down south and when I saw the one from Saturday, my heart about leaped out of my chest. I know they said he was in really bad shape, but Shaun and I had no idea it was that low. I didn't know you could survive at that level :shrug:
But that would explain why they didn't think he would make it through the weekend. Guess he fooled them (again)!! :D

I'm very happy to say that his RBC is at 7.48 today, on the high side of normal!! *does the happy dance*
His white blood count is a bit low, but the vet on duty said that could be because his body was working so hard to pump out the red blood cells, and he does have Giardia. But overall, his CBC was great! She told us to take it home and frame it :D

As long as he continues to fight, we will too :cloud9: :lovestruck:

hazelrunpack
November 27th, 2010, 10:37 PM
:highfive: :thumbs up :D :goodvibes: happy happy happy!!!!

TeriM
November 27th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Woohoo Nookie :thumbs up.

MaxaLisa
November 27th, 2010, 11:56 PM
Wonderful, happy news :)

pbpatti
November 28th, 2010, 01:01 PM
Way to go Mr Nanook,aka nookie monster. Robyn I am so happy to hear that he is doing so much better. Now to get his papilloma under control and we can have a doggy date. What is Giardia? patti

Rgeurts
November 28th, 2010, 03:26 PM
Way to go Mr Nanook,aka nookie monster. Robyn I am so happy to hear that he is doing so much better. Now to get his papilloma under control and we can have a doggy date. What is Giardia? patti

Well, it may be awhile for the papilloma :rolleyes:
Everything I have read says 3-5 months and that's in a dog with a healthy immune system. I have read a few articles though that claim there are herbal remedies. I will talk to Dr. Marsden on Tuesday at our appt. Giardia is a parasitic protozoan. I'll put a link to it so you can read what it is. It's fairly common. Nookie monster had it when we got him as well.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex736

Robyn

chico2
November 28th, 2010, 04:32 PM
Robyn,every time I read Nookie Monster I have to chuckle,nookie means something totally different to us:laughing:
I too am so happy he's doing better:pray:it will last:fingerscr

pbpatti
November 28th, 2010, 06:26 PM
Robyn,every time I read Nookie Monster I have to chuckle,nookie means something totally different to us:laughing:
I too am so happy he's doing better:pray:it will last:fingerscr

:offtopic:sorry.. nookie means something different to us too:crazy::D

pbpatti
November 28th, 2010, 06:29 PM
Well, it may be awhile for the papilloma :rolleyes:
Everything I have read says 3-5 months and that's in a dog with a healthy immune system. I have read a few articles though that claim there are herbal remedies. I will talk to Dr. Marsden on Tuesday at our appt. Giardia is a parasitic protozoan. I'll put a link to it so you can read what it is. It's fairly common. Nookie monster had it when we got him as well.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex736

Robyn thanks robyn, it rings a bell for me now..we/our dogs can get it from water also..creeks,mountain runoff etc. patti

Rgeurts
November 28th, 2010, 09:38 PM
LoL ya, nookie "meant" something different to us too :o, but I'm so used to using it for the monster that it doesn't even come to mind anymore! We starting calling him that because he loves his cookies and Nookie Monster just seemed to fit him :D

And we are hoping it lasts too!! He has been so cute the last couple of days. He was so rowdy when we went to the vet yesterday that Shaun had to take him outside until the appointment. He just waltzed in and started howling as though he were announcing himself, got all the dogs in there going and wouldn't stop! :crazy: little pupper!

The receptionists were calling him the class clown. Then when the techs took him to the back we could hear him singing to them the whole time. The one came out, just laughing, and said she promised they weren't hurting him... he was just very happy and feels like singing :laughing: :laughing:

pbpatti
November 28th, 2010, 10:10 PM
Robyn that is such good news it brought some tears to my eyes. A long time coming but perhaps he really is on the mend now. :cloud9::fingerscr patti

Rgeurts
November 28th, 2010, 10:23 PM
We are hoping so as well. It has been such a roller coaster. We know we could still lose him so we're just taking it one day at a time and really enjoying the good days with him :lovestruck: :cloud9:

chico2
November 29th, 2010, 08:32 AM
Robyn,I can just hear him at the vet,my neighbors Fate,a white Husky,tends to sing a lot too,it's so cute.
I too tear up when I read "nookie"is doing better,it would be wonderful if he could get a break from going to the vet(you too),to be a carefree pup again:dog::pray:

14+kitties
November 29th, 2010, 09:01 AM
:thumbs up Yay Nookie!!!!! :highfive::grouphug::goodvibes:

Love4himies
November 29th, 2010, 09:14 AM
He just waltzed in and started howling as though he were announcing himself, got all the dogs in there going and wouldn't stop! :crazy: little pupper!

The receptionists were calling him the class clown. Then when the techs took him to the back we could hear him singing to them the whole time. The one came out, just laughing, and said she promised they weren't hurting him... he was just very happy and feels like singing :laughing: :laughing:

That is hilarious :laughing::laughing::lovestruck:

Rgeurts
November 29th, 2010, 12:37 PM
It was hilarious for sure. I was never so happy to see him being disruptive. Such a huge change from the week before when he had to be carried in! He was just a happy, playful little boy all weekend. I have a cold and was trying to rest yesterday, but he kept climbing on the couch, biting my feet, biting my sleeves and trying to "kill" my fuzzy blanket lol. He was such a handful! He and Thorin were playing most of the day :lovestruck: :laughing:

Rgeurts
November 29th, 2010, 12:40 PM
Robyn,I can just hear him at the vet,my neighbors Fate,a white Husky,tends to sing a lot too,it's so cute.
I too tear up when I read "nookie"is doing better,it would be wonderful if he could get a break from going to the vet(you too),to be a carefree pup again:dog::pray:

We're sure hoping that will happen! So far, so good. We have an appt. with the holistic vet tomorrow. He said he can tell if he's going to have a seizure before it happens :shrug:
Not sure how, but we're trusting him! His herbs have done wonders so far :cloud9:

rainbow
December 4th, 2010, 03:26 PM
I haven't logged on here in awhile and sure glad to hear that little Nookie is doing well. :thumbs up

LOL at him singing at the vet's office ......too cute. That sure would have brought a smile to my face too. :cloud9:

How did the visit go with the holistic vet? Do hope that Nanook is still doing well. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

hazelrunpack
December 5th, 2010, 08:05 PM
How is Nanook doing, Robyn? Hope everything is well! :goodvibes:

rainbow
December 7th, 2010, 03:16 PM
We're worried that we haven't heard from you ....how is Nanook doing? :fingerscr :goodvibes:

chico2
December 7th, 2010, 04:43 PM
If I am not mistaken,I think Robyn mentioned they were going to the States:shrug:

rainbow
December 7th, 2010, 06:03 PM
If I am not mistaken,I think Robyn mentioned they were going to the States:shrug:

I thought that wasn't until December.

Chris21711
December 7th, 2010, 06:14 PM
I thought that wasn't until December.

Check you calendar :rolleyes:

rainbow
December 7th, 2010, 06:20 PM
Oooooopsie .....my mind is so scattered these days. :o

rainbow
December 7th, 2010, 06:23 PM
She posted this on Nov 27 ....


We leave for the states in a couple of weeks,


And, she was logged on this morning ....

Last Activity: Today 09:45 AM

Chris21711
December 7th, 2010, 06:32 PM
She posted this on Nov 27 ....



And, she was logged on this morning ....

Last Activity: Today 09:45 AM

Did you used to work for CSI :laughing:

pbpatti
December 7th, 2010, 07:43 PM
Hi, I saw Robyn, Nanook and Thorin this past Saturday and they all were doing terrific. Sasha and Nookie played for a bit but Buddy had to sit this one out as Nookie has Papillomas. I am sure you will hear from Robyn soon. They leave for the States around the 19thI think...patti

rainbow
December 7th, 2010, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the update, patti. :thumbs up

Hopefully, Nookie is still doing well. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

rainbow
December 7th, 2010, 08:02 PM
Robyn, I see you are logged on .......your ears must have been ringing. :D

I hope you still have good news for us. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

rainbow
December 7th, 2010, 08:12 PM
I'll have to check in later for your update ......hope you reply. :fingerscr

Rgeurts
December 7th, 2010, 11:23 PM
Sorry!! I had pets open at work but got busy and didn't look at it lol. Nookie is doing really well so far. He's been a perky, happy little monster... just like he should be :cloud9::lovestruck:

He's lame and has a bad limp in his left front quarter, but it doesn't hurt him. He may recover. Dr. Marsden said if he does, it will take some time. But even if he doesn't, it's ok. He doesn't know anything's wrong :)

He's been down to a 5mg daily dose of pred for almost 2 weeks now(the lowest dose he's been on to this point)! We're on seizure activity watch. Dr. Marsden has him on Stramonium and a Chinese herbal combination to help keep the seizures at bay. It can take up to 6 weeks to be fully effective, so until then, we just have to keep a close eye on him :)

So here's hoping (and :pray:'ing)!!

rainbow
December 7th, 2010, 11:35 PM
Thanks for updating us and so glad to hear that Nanook is still doing well. :thumbs up

Hopefully the lameness will disappear once he is fully recovered. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Sending lots of :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes: as always. :grouphug:

Rgeurts
December 7th, 2010, 11:58 PM
Thank you so much rainbow!! Nanook sends wet kisses and thanks too! :D :grouphug:

Love4himies
December 8th, 2010, 07:54 AM
That is so great :thumbs up, hopefully he is on his way to be fully recovered and no more pred!

chico2
December 8th, 2010, 08:52 AM
Robyn,right after I had said I thought you were in the States,I saw you on in the post about the dog who cannot close his mouth....

I am so happy for Nookie and you:pray:the little guy will only continue to improve:pray:

Rgeurts
December 8th, 2010, 11:18 AM
That is so great :thumbs up, hopefully he is on his way to be fully recovered and no more pred!

We're sure hoping so L4h!! :D


Robyn,right after I had said I thought you were in the States,I saw you on in the post about the dog who cannot close his mouth....

I am so happy for Nookie and you:pray:the little guy will only continue to improve:pray:

I have just been SO busy the last week. We leave for the states next weekend.

Patti and I had a Harry Potter marathon on Saturday and she brought Sasha and Buddy. Buddy is a complete doll!! :lovestruck: :flirt:
I got some great pics of Buddy, Sasha and Nookie (Thorin doesn't play well, so he had to stay upstairs). I just have to find time to post them :)

hazelrunpack
December 9th, 2010, 10:35 AM
Can't wait to see the pics, Robyn!

rainbow
December 9th, 2010, 02:56 PM
Thank you so much rainbow!! Nanook sends wet kisses and thanks too! :D :grouphug:

Awwwww Nookie :lovestruck: .....I would so love to get those in person. :cloud9:

Looking forward to the playdate pics with Sasha and Buddy. :goodvibes:

luckypenny
December 9th, 2010, 03:12 PM
Praying Nanook's health continues to improve :fingerscr. Can't wait to see pics either :goodvibes:.

rainbow
January 4th, 2011, 08:46 PM
Robyn, do you have an update for us? :fingerscr

How were your holidays? :goodvibes:

Did you take Nanook to the specialist down there? If so, did they find anything different or have the vets here diagnosed him correctly? How is Thorin doing? :fingerscr :goodvibes:

rainbow
January 6th, 2011, 03:18 PM
Robyn, I hope everything is okay. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Rgeurts
January 6th, 2011, 03:19 PM
Robyn, do you have an update for us? :fingerscr

How were your holidays? :goodvibes:

Did you take Nanook to the specialist down there? If so, did they find anything different or have the vets here diagnosed him correctly? How is Thorin doing? :fingerscr :goodvibes:

No, we didn't take him to the specialist there. We can't put him under now, so we could not have the stomach stapling done. But it's ok, Nanook has not been bloated in weeks! The holistic treatment he has been on really seems to be working for him. He looks great, not like a little cow anymore :laughing:
Dr. Marsden has done wonders for Nookie. He's the only vet we will be seeing now. The specialist and our regular vet kept him alive with medication, but until he was off all of it, we didn't realize what those meds were doing to him. He was a zombie compared to what he is now!!:D :lovestruck: :cloud9:

Thorin did wonderful on the trip, but I'm afraid he may have another UTI. I will be taking him in to make sure all is well.



Hi rainbow (and everyone)! Sorry it's been so long for the update. Nanook has been doing really well. He did have a seizure (10 weeks seizure free this time) while we were on Holidays. It was an odd one. All of his seizures have occurred between 6-8 am and 6-8 pm and normally while, or just after drinking, weird huh? This one happened at 1am while he was playing with a Kong wobbler. I had just looked at him and went into the bathroom to wash up when I heard hubby calling to Nookie. There was really no usual pre-ictal phase (he normally gets a blank look, does a lot of lip smacking, foaming etc for at least 2-3 minutes). He went right in to the ictal phase of the grand mal and it was over before I even got his Valium out. He normally is very disoriented after, for at least 30 minutes. This time, hubby wiped the drool from his mouth, then he jumped up and started playing again :shrug:

We're praying that it was either caused by the stress of traveling, epilepsy or a bit of brain damage (scar tissue from previous seizures) and not a relapse of the Meningoencephalitis. We are not going to our regular vet clinic anymore. We saw them again the night before we left on holidays, and as usual, had the crap scared out of us for no reason. The only vet at that clinic that knows what she's doing is our regular vet, who we rarely get to see anymore. Seems we're always stuck with some idiot that has their own ideas/opinions of what's going on with our monster and then they scare us and recommend horrible treatments (like biopsies that aren't needed and tons of meds). The vet we saw told us he had Hemolytic Anemia and caused us to leave on holidays almost a full day late. She actually made me feel horrible and said we shouldn't be going anywhere with such a sick dog, that we needed to stay here and get him help and testing. She also wanted me to raise his prednisone back up. I told her we almost lost him due to internal bleeding from the pred/azathioprine and that it had damaged his front joints so badly he could barely walk. She then told me he was on pred for Hemolytic Anemia. I told her he was not, that he was never diagnosed, but she argued with me, then got defensive and told me to do what I wanted, but if it were her dog and she lost him because she wouldn't listen and follow instructions, she wouldn't be able to live with herself... I was so mad that I got up, took Nookies leash from her and said I would call our regular vet when I could and left. He was doing great that visit. Tons of energy, happy, huge appetite etc. His blood test did show slight anemia, but you would never know by looking at him. And it took them 8 tries and over an hour to run the test. She said the machine just didn't want to cooperate.

I went home and talked with hubby. I was in tears again thinking we were going to lose him even after all the fighting. The worst part was thinking the meds we had allowed them to put him on was the most like culprit for the Hemolytic Anemia. Hubby and I decided we were not going to follow the vets instructions. I decided to email Dr. Marsden. To my surprise, he emailed me back fairly fast and asked if I had a copy of Nookies blood test from the clinic, and I did (I always get copies for his home file). Hubby scanned and emailed it to Dr. Marsden. He then called me and asked if the other vet had even bothered to take his temperature. I told him no, she hadn't really examined him at all. She had completed the blood test, consulted with the old vet (the same one who said Nookie had Myositis and wanted to put him under, which may have killed him in the condition he was in, and do muscle biopsies) and together they had decided it was Hemolytic Anemia. Dr. Marsden asked if it was a young vet, I told him middle aged but the vet she had consulted with had been around many, many years. Dr. Marsden just sighed and said it was ludicrous that they told us Nookie had Hemolytic Anemia. He said they would have had to take his temperature, that he would have a fever, be extremely lethargic and normally jaundiced, which he was none of the above and, in fact, he was extremely perky and playful. Dr. Marsden was heading to California on holidays and asked me to continue to email him with updates, to have a couple of follow up blood tests in the states, NOT to increase the pred and email him the results and for Shaun and I to go, have fun and not worry because he thought Nookie was just fine to travel. So we did just that, after wasting almost a full day stressing and thinking the worst was happening :wall: :wall:

Shaun and I have decided that we will no longer see the regular vet clinic. I don't know what's going to happen if Nookie has a relapse of the Meningo. What I do know is that all the meds to treat it almost killed him, and made him a zombie pup. Dr. Marsden, in the first visit we had with him, made me teary when he said his hope was to "introduce us" to our puppy, and he has done just what he said. Nanook slept about 80% of the time prior to Dr. Marsden. Now we wish he would get tired out and just take a nap once in awhile, lol. He has tons of energy and just wants to play all the time! I think his teeth may have also been messed up from the meds because he seems to still be teething at almost 11 months old. He acts like a young puppy. Maybe because he missed that whole phase of his life :shrug:
Dr. Marsden said we will deal with whatever comes up in a natural way and he seems to think our monster will live a full and happy life. I sure hope (and :pray:) he is right. But if we do lose him, at least we will have had some very, VERY happy days with our little boy! :cloud9: :lovestruck:

I am still so impressed that Dr. Marsden took time while away on vacation to keep in contact, adjust doses of the remedies he's on, check blood test results and just make sure our boy was ok. We have now placed our complete trust and faith in Dr. Marsden (and God, of course!!) as Nookie is a completely different puppy! No more prednisone, Azathioprine etc. We will not make our baby suffer like that again.

:sorry: Sorry for such a long post, but I got started ranting about the other clinic and just couldn't seem to stop lol. It just blows my mind how you can see 5 different people and get 5 different answers/egos. People have to be SO careful with their furkids. One thing we have learned through all of this is that if something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't. Get 2nd opinions, and third. Keep going until you are comfortable with what's happening. Just because someone has a degree and a piece of paper saying they have graduated does NOT make them competent.

I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!

chico2
January 6th, 2011, 05:12 PM
Roibyn,thank you very much for Nanooks update,I think many of us were kind of worried about him.
I am sooo relived to hear our Nookie-Monster is doing good.:thumbs up
I had a similar situation like you,with 4 different vets,different opinions, at a clinic until I got fed up and now have a wonderful vet.

Just one question,is it more serious for dogs to have seizures than people??
My middle son is epileptic and has had probably a hundred seizures,since he was about 1 yr old and in between he was doing ok.

He did have brainsurgery when in his 20's,to remove scar-tissue and a small part of his brain,is it possible to do that to dogs,if it's found Nanook is Epileptic?

I am sure if that's the case,Nanook could live a long happy life on meds,once the dosage and combination is figured out,no surgery needed.
Epilepsi is not a death-sentence.

Nice to have you back:grouphug:

Rgeurts
January 6th, 2011, 05:41 PM
Roibyn,thank you very much for Nanooks update,I think many of us were kind of worried about him.
I am sooo relived to hear our Nookie-Monster is doing good.:thumbs up
I had a similar situation like you,with 4 different vets,different opinions, at a clinic until I got fed up and now have a wonderful vet.

Just one question,is it more serious for dogs to have seizures than people??
My middle son is epileptic and has had probably a hundred seizures,since he was about 1 yr old and in between he was doing ok.

He did have brainsurgery when in his 20's,to remove scar-tissue and a small part of his brain,is it possible to do that to dogs,if it's found Nanook is Epileptic?

I am sure if that's the case,Nanook could live a long happy life on meds,once the dosage and combination is figured out,no surgery needed.
Epilepsi is not a death-sentence.

Nice to have you back:grouphug:

Thank you so much Chico!! :2huggers:


I don't know about the surgery for dogs. I'll have to ask about it if it does turn out to be just Epilepsy this time, and not Meningo. From what we've been told, it is different for dogs. Apparently the more seizures they have, the more they will be prone to having. Each seizure makes a path, of sorts, and makes it easier for the next seizures that follow. The meds for canine Epilepsy are also a concern. From what we were told, if a dog starts on seizure meds at a young age, they ay live to about 4 or 5. The reason is that their bodies "adjust" to the medications much fast than humans. Humans have a wide range of medication, so when the body no longer responds, you can move on to the next. It is the same with dogs except there are only a small handful and once they're through them all, there isn't much else you can do. I did read a study recently that said they are starting to use more of the human meds and it does look promising. They are very hard on the liver/kidneys, but with holistic treatment (at least in Nookies case), it helps a lot. Once he is stronger, if he has another siezure, we will have another CSF tap completed to hopefully rule out Meningo. :)

How is your son doing now? I read earlier that he was having heart problems. That must be terrifying for you :(

Love4himies
January 6th, 2011, 05:49 PM
Oh no, I was hoping no news was good news :(.

Pred does have it's place in the medical world, but I think doctors are prescribing it much too often.

Sending lots of :goodvibes: for Nanook.

Rgeurts
January 6th, 2011, 06:00 PM
Oh no, I was hoping no news was good news :(.

Pred does have it's place in the medical world, but I think doctors are prescribing it much too often.

Sending lots of :goodvibes: for Nanook.

Ya, we can't complain too much about the pred or complain at all about our regular vet and specialist. Together, the 3 kept our baby alive long enough to get him the holistic help. I just don't think I would put him back on all of it again. It was heartbreaking to watch him a few weeks ago. His joints were so bad he could barely walk and was yelping and crying a lot. He is still on pred, but a very low dose so there are no side effects. He's on 2.5mg daily which is way down from the 60mg daily that he was on. All in all though, it's pretty good news! At least for now. He's such a happy, healthy looking boy (a little too healthy... he's up tp 95 lbs :eek:) :laughing:
I'll post some pics/videos of Christmas and the last few days. He really does look great. You'd never know anything was wrong :)

And thank you for the :goodvibes:!! Dr. Marsden said Nanook will be the type of dog who always has something going on, but seems to think we can manage it. It's just going to take time, patience and, of course, money lol. But it's made to be spent, it's ok!! So here's hoping (and :pray:'ing)!!

Chris21711
January 6th, 2011, 06:07 PM
Thanks for the update Robyn.....it all sounds really promising :thumbs up

rainbow
January 6th, 2011, 06:10 PM
I'm so happy to hear that Nookie is doing well. :thumbs up You guys sure have been given the runaround with the vets :( but glad to hear that Dr Marsden has been able to help so much and also your regular vet. :goodvibes:

Is it not possible to just book an appt with your regular vet if you want to see her? That's what I do with my vet as I don't like the others that are there.

Glad Thorin did well on the trip but sorry to hear that he may have another UTI :grouphug: .....I hope it will be cleared up quickly. :fingerscr

Looking forward to the pics and video of your handsome boys. :goodvibes:

hazelrunpack
January 6th, 2011, 09:33 PM
Glad that Nanook is doing so well, Robyn! :goodvibes: And sending a few more :goodvibes: Thorin's way, as well! So happy that you found Dr Marsden!!

SuperWanda
January 7th, 2011, 02:39 PM
I've also been waiting for an update! Glad that you are all okay.

When Timber had such low red blood cells, hemolytic anemia also came up. From what I understand, you would see a very dramatic anemia, not just a slight drop. I think Dr. Lee posted something about that earlier in my thread.

It is so difficult to get so many opinions but I agree that you should go with your gut and do what you feel is best.

I will update my post as soon as I get our current blood results but we did go to the Natural Healing Vet clinic here and had some acupuncture and gentle massage/chiropractic adjustments done. Also will focus on boosting Timber's immune system. Wanted to thank you for suggesting it because I don't know if I would have gone otherwise.

Rgeurts
January 7th, 2011, 03:11 PM
Is it not possible to just book an appt with your regular vet if you want to see her? That's what I do with my vet as I don't like the others that are there.




We can book an appt. with her, when she's there. She only works Mon through Wed and was gone from the end of Nov. to the 18th of Dec. A lot of the times when something happens and we have to take him in, it's outside of the days she works as well. It's just too difficult to see someone with such limited availability. She always says to just have the tests done and she will review when she gets back, but we never get out of the clinic without one of the others trying to prescribe something, or order tests or procedures, freaking us out, etc. It's just frustrating. I think it will just be easier to see 1 vet. Dr. Marsden is traditional Western and holistic, so it's the best of both worlds. He's also the pioneer for holistic veterinary medicine in North America. He doesn't take new patients (human or animal), but thanks to LP speaking with Dr. Dodds, he took our boys :)

We will be taking Thorin to see him this month as well. Hopefully he can correct, or at least treat, the Colitis.

Rgeurts
January 7th, 2011, 03:22 PM
I've also been waiting for an update! Glad that you are all okay.

When Timber had such low red blood cells, hemolytic anemia also came up. From what I understand, you would see a very dramatic anemia, not just a slight drop. I think Dr. Lee posted something about that earlier in my thread.

It is so difficult to get so many opinions but I agree that you should go with your gut and do what you feel is best.

I will update my post as soon as I get our current blood results but we did go to the Natural Healing Vet clinic here and had some acupuncture and gentle massage/chiropractic adjustments done. Also will focus on boosting Timber's immune system. Wanted to thank you for suggesting it because I don't know if I would have gone otherwise.

I sincerely hope that you see results like we have. I know that, like humans, not all dogs respond to holistic treatments. But fortunately, Nookie did. It was the herbs and homeopathic remedies that turned him around. He's SUCH a crazy :crazy:, energetic and happy puppy these days. Gone are the days of rest while he slept the majority of the day, lol. And we couldn't be happier :lovestruck::cloud9:

How has Timber been feeling lately? Is her blood count back to normal? Have they put her on any herbs yet? Nookie has been on several and the latest was to help boost his immune system. I would have to say it worked because his warts were so large that his little lip was hanging to his chin from the weight of the 1, but they all fell off about a week ago, so no need to have them removed now :clap: :D

And yes, Dr. Marsden told us the same thing... if it was Hemolytic Anemia, he would be a very sick boy and the Anemia would not be slight, it would be a fast and drastic drop.

rainbow
January 7th, 2011, 08:11 PM
I didn't realize that the regular vet that you like only works Mon - Wed .....that sure makes it difficult. I hope Dr Marsden will be able to help Thorin as much as he has Nookie. :goodvibes:

And, btw .....still waiting for pics and videos. :D

Rgeurts
January 8th, 2011, 08:04 PM
I didn't realize that the regular vet that you like only works Mon - Wed .....that sure makes it difficult. I hope Dr Marsden will be able to help Thorin as much as he has Nookie. :goodvibes:

And, btw .....still waiting for pics and videos. :D


So do we! I explained the situation to him and Dr. Joanna Milan (one of his colleagues) and they seem to think they can help. I know we need to get him on to a diet that won't aggravate the colitis but will help in stopping the formation of Struvite and Calcium Oxylate stones as he has both.

The one vet is still pretty hung up on prostate cancer. We will be having an ultra-sound to hopefully rule that out.

rainbow
January 8th, 2011, 11:55 PM
Sending lots of :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes: for Thorin .....I hope that Dr Marsden/Dr Milan will be able to help him. :grouphug:

Have you read the information from the B-Naturals Newsletter? .....

B-Naturals Newsletter - November 2009

Struvite and Calcium Oxalate Urinary Stones and Crystals

By Lew Olson, PhD Natural Health


There are a variety of stones and crystals that can affect our dogs. I often get inquiries on how to treat stones when diagnosed during a veterinarian visit. The first question I ask is, “What type of crystal or stones was found?” Each type of crystal or stone is addressed in two very different approaches.


Struvites
These are most commonly caused by urinary tract infections. Bacteria in the urine cause alkaline urine (high pH) which creates the perfect environment for struvite crystals to develop. When struvite crystals are found in a urinalysis done at your veterinarian’s office, the next step is to have your vet do a sterile urine culture and sensitivity test. This test is done in house at the vet’s office. The urine is collected in a sterile manner and sent off to a lab to grow and identify the bacteria that is present. This provides the information on which antibiotic would be the best choice. Usually the antibiotic is given for a month and then another culture is done when the dog has been off the antibiotics for ten days to make sure the infection is gone. Once the infection is gone, the urine returns to a normal pH and the problem is resolved. Keep alert to any symptoms that a UTI has returned. The symptoms could include frequent urination, blood seen in the urine or pain upon urination. Always take your dog to your veterinarian should any of these symptoms occur.

Diet changes aren’t helpful for this problem, as most often the struvites are responding to bacteria in the urinary tract.

For more information, please visit this website:

http://vettechs.blogspot.com/2005/05/so-your-dog-has-struvites.html


Calcium Oxalates
These are most common in dogs over five years old and most frequently seen in males. It is common in certain breeds, such as Miniature Schnauzers, Miniature Poodles, Yorkshire Terriers, Bison Frises, Lhasa Apsos and Shih Tzus. It is thought this may be a genetic condition that causes a lack nephorcalin, which inhibits calcium oxalates from developing.

Steroids can aggravate a calcium oxalate former which can create more calcium excretion in the urine. Cushing’s disease may also lead to calcium oxalate stone formation, as the increased cortisol production causes calcium excretion. Other medications to avoid for dogs prone to calcium oxalates besides steroids include furosemid, also known as lasix.

Symptoms can include difficulty in urinating, blood in the urine, inability to urinate in a steady flow or even increased urination. With any of these symptoms, please have a complete check up on your dog by your veterinarian.

Unlike struvites, diet changes can be helpful for dogs prone to oxalates. The primary foods that contain oxalates are grains and vegetables. Since dog foods are primarily grains, the best way to achieve a good diet is to offer a homemade diet. In this way, the ingredients and quality of the foods can be monitored.

Foods to avoid would include barley, corn, brown rice, wheat, soy, most beans, potatoes, sweet potatoes, spinach and nuts.

Foods that can be fed include all meat, dairy (no flavoring or sweeteners, NOT soy based), eggs, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, white rice, canned pumpkin, and meat and fish broths. Some sources can vary on assessing the oxalate content of food, so compare several lists. Some charts of low oxalate vs. high oxalate foods are listed here:

http://www.ohf.org/docs/Oxalate2008.pdf

http://www.lowoxalate.info/food_lists/cat_lod_food_chart.pdf



A good proportion to feed would be approximately 65% to 75% animal protein, and 25% to 35% carbohydrate (vegetables listed above or white rice). Approximate feeding amounts are 2% to 3% of the dog’s body weight daily. On average, a 100 lb. dog would get 2 to 3 lbs. of food daily (approximately 4 to 6 cups), a 50 lb. dog would get 1 to 1 to 1-1/2 lbs. daily (2 to 3 cups) and a 25 lb. dog would get 8 oz. to 12 oz. daily (1 to 1 ½ cups). You would also need to add calcium carbonate, at a rate of about 900 mg per pound of food served.

Calcium can be another issue for calcium oxalate formers. While it is uncertain whether or not calcium will create problems, it is know that calcium excretion in the urine can form crystals and stones, so it is suggested to avoid foods that are high in calcium. Additionally, the medications listed above that can cause calcium excretion in the urine should also be avoided. You may add some yogurt or cottage cheese, but only as a small part of the diet, not as main ingredient. You will need to add calcium to diet, but use a calcium carbonate supplement WITHOUT vitamin D. Vitamin D increases the intake of calcium.


A sample diet for a 25 lb. dog for one day (divided into two meals) might be:


¾ cup cooked hamburger

2 eggs

1 tablespoon yogurt

4 oz steamed and mashed cauliflower


Another sample diet might be:
¾ cup cooked chicken breast

4 oz chicken heart

1 tablespoon cottage cheese

4 oz white rice



You may use meat portions for these recipes that your dog enjoys. The same would apply for the smaller ratio of carbohydrate choices. Be sure to use variety foods and avoid getting ‘stuck in a rut’ using the same type of meat or carbohydrate over and over.

Meat suggestions include ground beef, ground chicken, ground turkey, ground pork, baked white fish, beef, chicken, pork or turkey heart and lamb.


Carbohydrates to use include white rice, Brussel Sprouts, canned pumpkin, green peas, white cabbage, zucchini, acorn squash, Bok Choy, melon and egg noodles, Do COOK (boil, not steam) all vegetables (and the rice) before serving. Cooking is thought to reduce some of the oxalate content, and raw vegetables contain a higher oxalate value on most oxalate food level charts.


Additional supplements would include EPA fish oil capsules, at one per ten lbs of body weight daily, and a B complex vitamin.

Additional Methods to Help Resolve Crystals and Stones
Both struvite and calcium oxalates prevention require having water available around the clock and a moist diet to help flush the crystals. This would include offering water around the clock, giving treats of beef or chicken broth and allowing the dog many opportunities to urinate during the day. All of this helps to flush the crystals and keep the dog hydrated. Holding urine or water can cause increases of crystal formation, leading to stone formation.

B Vitamins are thought to help fight crystal development and EPA fish oil (omega 3 fatty acids) are renal protective.

Treats can be offered in the form of baked liver, hard boiled eggs and jerky treats. Do avoid grain laden dog treats if your dog is prone to calcium oxalates.

Continuous monitoring of your dog’s health in regard to crystals and stones is needed in both conditions to insure your dog is infection free and that stones are not developing.

Rgeurts
January 9th, 2011, 12:44 PM
Thank you for all the info rainbow!! I do want to start making a homemade diet for both Nookie and Thorin. I have to be careful because of Thorin's Colitis and the last bout threw him into the beginning stages of Pacreatitis, so he will now be prone to that so we have to watch the fat as well. What I am hoping to do is to get both boys on the same diet, though I don't know if that will be possible. Nookie has so many allergies and sensitivities and we have to really watch Thorin's calcium and fat intake(fish, omega oils etc). I'm hoping that between Dr. Marsden and Dr. Milan, we can come up with something!

Rgeurts
January 14th, 2011, 10:59 PM
Hey guys :)
Just an update on Nookie Monster. We saw Dr. Milan today (Dr. Marsdens colleague). I had taken some videos of some "episodes" he has been having for a few weeks now. He seems to get huge energy bursts that escalate into him lunging, growling and snapping at us. It's really hard to tell with Mals if they're just trying to play, or being aggressive. I also took video of him chasing and biting his tail. She commented on something that I thought was pretty interesting and had not even noticed, when he chases his tail, he always chases it clockwise :shrug: She said that fact in itself makes her think neurological and possibly focal seizures. If that's the case, he has been having a few daily. But... when he is doing this, if we talk to him or touch him he will stop and look at us like "what?" and then get up, walk away and go find something else to do. The same with the escalation to possible aggression when he's playing, if I say sit (sometimes I have to push his bum and help a little!), he will stop biting/growling, sit and just look at me like "ok... what now?" :shrug:
After I told her that she said it could still be neurological/seizure activity, but more unlikely because if it were a seizure, we would most likely not get him to respond to anything, or it could be OCD behavior :eek:. She said it's really tough to tell the difference between the 2. She also thinks it may just be that he was never really a puppy because of all the illness and drugs and is now feeling good, having a lot of energy and being a "delayed" puppy... who knows! She said to try and give him things to do like puzzles to make him mentally tired, making obstacles in the house like figure 8's and making him walk them etc to see if that quells the weird episodes at all. So... I guess we have some work cut out for us trying to figure out if he is actually having seizures, suffering a bit of brain damage, being a puppy (finally!) or is just extremely bored :D
One thing I will say is this... I never knew having a furry companion could be this tough, both mentally and physically :yell:, but I wouldn't give him up for anything :cloud9::lovestruck:

Now for the medical issues... I kinda freaked out a bit the other night because I pulled his sweater off and it was just covered with hair, his undercoat. Shedding or blowing a coat is not normal this time of the year, but not unheard of either. What worried me is that he is only 10 months old. He shouldn't blow his coat until he is between 18-24 months and his fur is a bit frizzy and a little brittle on his rear end. He has also been acting like he is on pred again... drinking a lot of water, peeing a lot (a few times in the house even though he's now potty trained), panting a lot more and breathing more rapidly. Dr. Milan thinks he may have immune-mediated thyroidism so she took blood and has sent it to Dr. Dodds. We should know in about 10 days. She said Malamutes are pre-disposed to it, and with what he's already been through, it isn't unlikely. The good news is that would explain some things (even the possible aggression) and it's treatable :)

I'll update once we have the results!

luckypenny
January 14th, 2011, 11:40 PM
We appreciate the update, Rgeurts. I think of your guys often. You may get the results by Monday and I'll keep my :fingerscr that it will show something that's easily treatable. You guys deserve a break :grouphug:

hazelrunpack
January 15th, 2011, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the update,Rgeurts! I was just wondering how things were going!

Setters are prone to immune-mediated hypothyroidism, too. I hope that's all it is and treating it takes care of his new symptoms. We have three currently on thyroid replacement and the treatment seems easy and effective. :thumbs up

Give your boys a couple of hugs from hazel, k? :grouphug:

chico2
January 15th, 2011, 10:18 AM
Robyn,I think Nookie came to you,because"someone"knew,you would never give up on him.
I am not religious,but sometimes,I wonder..

I just:pray:you will get a correct diagnosis and that it can be easily treated:fingerscr

Rgeurts
January 15th, 2011, 01:55 PM
We appreciate the update, Rgeurts. I think of your guys often. You may get the results by Monday and I'll keep my :fingerscr that it will show something that's easily treatable. You guys deserve a break :grouphug:

Thank you LP!! We're praying that something shows on the panel so we can get him started on meds and maybe get some of the symptoms under control :pray:


Thanks for the update,Rgeurts! I was just wondering how things were going!

Setters are prone to immune-mediated hypothyroidism, too. I hope that's all it is and treating it takes care of his new symptoms. We have three currently on thyroid replacement and the treatment seems easy and effective. :thumbs up

Give your boys a couple of hugs from hazel, k? :grouphug:

Thank you Hazel! We certainly hope it's something as easy to treat as that. And wow... 3? That's almost half your pack! Did you find any side effects and/or changes in mood once you started the meds? Did any of yours have hair loss due to the condition?

Hugs given, and they thank you! :D


Robyn,I think Nookie came to you,because"someone"knew,you would never give up on him.
I am not religious,but sometimes,I wonder..

I just:pray:you will get a correct diagnosis and that it can be easily treated:fingerscr

Thank you very much, chico! I'm not "religious", per say... but I do believe in God/Jesus, I believe in the power of prayer and I know without the prayers we have said and have had sent our way, our monster would not be with us. He really is a miracle :) :lovestruck: :cloud9:

hazelrunpack
January 15th, 2011, 03:30 PM
Thank you Hazel! We certainly hope it's something as easy to treat as that. And wow... 3? That's almost half your pack! Did you find any side effects and/or changes in mood once you started the meds? Did any of yours have hair loss due to the condition?

Setters are very prone to the malady so we check if we notice any lack of energy. Basically every time we have them checked for anaplasmosis or leptospirosis, which is once or twice yearly, we also do the T3/T4 and antibody tests. We haven't had any side effects from the meds (pala-tech chewables) or mood changes, other than that the meds rectified the energy loss. :thumbs up We caught all cases very early, so it never progressed to hair loss or changes in coat, except in Cass. She'd had dry winter skin for some time and that's pretty much cleared up since we started her on the meds.


Hugs given, and they thank you! :D


:thumbs up :cloud9:

Rgeurts
January 15th, 2011, 04:15 PM
Thank you Hazel!! I really do hope that's what's causing Nookie to lose his coat and that it will come back!! :)

Rgeurts
January 29th, 2011, 02:09 PM
Nookie has had a few probs this last week. He had a bit of internal bleeding and he's slightly anemic again. They're thinking it's still being caused by the pred, even though he's only on 2.5MG every 3rd day now, so they said to just stop it. It's not at a therapeutic dose and hasn't been for a couple of months now, so there's no point in continuing it.

His Thyroid panel came back from Dr. Dodds and he does have a low thyroid!! :D
Does the fact that it makes me very happy make me a bad mommy? :laughing:
It does explain a few things. So he's now on Thyroid medication. Hopefully we will see an improvement in his coat/anemia/attitude/weight (he's up to 105.5 lbs :eek: even though we have cut his food back!) :pray:
Dr. Dodds actually made a note at the bottom saying that his Thyroid levels are below the minimum acceptable levels and are possibly contributing to the seizure activity. Wouldn't that be great if that's been the cause all along? Well... except for the meningoencephalitis, which he's hopefully fully recovered from now. I sure hope the random seizures stop now that he's on medication! :pray:

Dr. Marsden is leaving for a month in the middle of Feb and said at some point we need to be brave and get him off the phenobarbital, so we're dropping his dose from once every 12 hours to once a day. Dr. Marsden is doing it this way so that if Nookie starts having seizures again, he will still be here and be able to treat him and put him back on the pheno if needed.

So all in all, we're pretty happy! A bit nervous about weaning the pheno, but it needs to be done. Nookie has been very active since starting the Thyroid meds (and it's only been yesterday and today lol). He hasn't stopped since he woke up this morning... and by now, he's usually had a couple of naps :eek:
He's sure been a handful today, and we couldn't be happier :D :cloud9: :lovestruck:

14+kitties
January 29th, 2011, 02:13 PM
All in all good news!! :grouphug::thumbs up I'm happy for you. And for Nookie. He's such a sweet pup. :cloud9:

Chris21711
January 29th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Real promising news Rguerts.....:thumbs up. I'm very happy for you all, it has been a long road :grouphug:

rainbow
January 29th, 2011, 02:57 PM
Hopefully, you're finally getting to the bottom of all this. :grouphug: Sending lots of :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes: your way for Nookie. :grouphug:

chico2
January 29th, 2011, 05:10 PM
that is great news,hopefully everything will work out and Nookie-Boy will be fine:pray:

Love4himies
January 30th, 2011, 08:54 AM
I hope this is the light at the end of the tunnel for you and Nookie :pray: :goodvibes: :fingerscr

SuperWanda
January 30th, 2011, 02:24 PM
Yeah Nanook!!! I hope that once he's off the steroid and the meds kick in to regulate his thyroid that he'll be okay.

Happy that you are finding some answers and hope you are able to discontinue the phenobarbital with no issues :thumbs up

Sylvie
January 30th, 2011, 03:35 PM
I'm so glad things are starting to pick up for Nookie.

What great parents your are, not many would help him so much.

:pray: that the end of all his problems are near.

Please give Nookie and Thorin a big hug for me.

hazelrunpack
January 31st, 2011, 11:02 AM
Really praying and hoping that this is going to do the trick for Nanook! :goodvibes: Dawg knows you've all been through the wringer!!! You need a happy ending!!

Rgeurts
February 5th, 2011, 02:59 PM
Nanook has been having trouble with his eyes for several months. They water so bad that it wets his cheeks all the way down the side of his face. We have asked all of the vets about it and no one seemed concerned at all. The internal specialist we were seeing did an eye stain, said it was normal and didn't think it was anything to worry about. Our regular vet thought it was due to allergies but didn't want to put him on antihistamines.

Well, it has gotten a lot worse. He's constantly pawing at them, the red rim around his eyes has gotten so thick and dark, he looks like a person who has some horrible disease (when their eyes get all puffy with bags and dark circles) so we took him back to the vet yesterday. Dr. Marsden (the Mrs. Marsden) said last week she thought he just had an eyelid problem and it was nothing to worry about, but yesterday she decided to do a Shirmer tear test, which he failed miserably and she diagnosed him with Dry Eye (Canine Keratoconjunctivitis Sicca). I just hope that it hasn't been let go for so long that it can't be treated. It can cause ulcers in the eye, blindness and other issues. We have to put ointment in his eyes twice a day and if it doesn't help, then we move on to artificial tears several times a day for life (from what I have read). I'm praying that it can be reversed, but from everything I have seen, it doesn't look promising. The tube of ointment last 1 week and is $60. I can't imagine having to do this for life :(

Robyn

Rgeurts
February 5th, 2011, 03:01 PM
Really praying and hoping that this is going to do the trick for Nanook! :goodvibes: Dawg knows you've all been through the wringer!!! You need a happy ending!!

Thank you Hazel :)
I think the thryoid medication is going to help, we're very hopeful!
I know he will always have some kind of issues throughout his life, we've been told that many times. I just hope and pray that it's all manageable!

hazelrunpack
February 5th, 2011, 08:19 PM
she diagnosed him with Dry Eye (Canine Keratoconjunctivitis Sicca).
Oh, crap! :frustrated: Hope his eyes respond to the treatment, Robyn. :grouphug:

TeriM
February 5th, 2011, 08:27 PM
Jeez, poor guy just can't catch a break :(. Your homeopathic vet will probably also be a good source for the eye thing. Hope it settles down soon :goodvibes:.

Rgeurts
February 5th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Oh, crap! :frustrated: Hope his eyes respond to the treatment, Robyn. :grouphug:

I sure hope so!!

Jeez, poor guy just can't catch a break :(. Your homeopathic vet will probably also be a good source for the eye thing. Hope it settles down soon :goodvibes:.

Ya, it's the holistic vet that diagnosed him yesterday. We rarely see our traditional vet these days. We will know next Friday whether or not he is responding to the treatment. He has responded very well to most everything else, so we're hopeful :)

rainbow
February 5th, 2011, 11:40 PM
<sigh> Poor Nanook :( and, of course, you and hubby too. :grouphug:

Is this connected to his immune system as well? I hope the ointment is able to help. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Rgeurts
February 5th, 2011, 11:53 PM
<sigh>

Is this connected to his immune system as well? I hope the ointment is able to help. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

They believe it is definitely part of his immune disorder. They are hopeful that once we get the thyroid under control and he's completely weaned off the phenobarbitol (he's off prednisone now, yay!) then some of these weird issues will resolve. They have told us quite a few times now that he's going to be one of those dogs that always has something wrong... some kind of issue. But they believe that whatever happens will be manageable with treatment and said he should live a happy life, so that's all we care about :)

Even with all these weird things going on, he's playful, alert and such a happy little boy :cloud9: :lovestruck:

hazelrunpack
February 6th, 2011, 03:19 PM
That's great that he's at least off the pred now! :highfive: How long do they figure it will take before he's off the phenobarb, too?

Rgeurts
February 6th, 2011, 03:38 PM
That's great that he's at least off the pred now! :highfive: How long do they figure it will take before he's off the phenobarb, too?

Well, they dropped him from 60mg 2x daily down to just 60mg at night, before bed. That's been a little over a week now. We have an appt. next Friday and they will see how he's doing at that time. They will check his "seizure aura", whatever that means lol. Dr. Marsden said he would like to see him off the phenobarb completely by the end of Feb. He is leaving town on Feb 15 and will be gone for a month, so I'm assuming he will have us drop it by half again for the second part of Feb. then be done with it. I would think if lowering the dose was going to have an ill effect, we would have seen a seizure in the last week? But who knows :)

hazelrunpack
February 6th, 2011, 03:42 PM
Even if it turned out he needed a minimal dosage to prevent seizures it would be a great improvement over what the poor little guy has had to deal with so far!!! But I hope you can wean him off entirely! :goodvibes: Do you have a back-up vet to go to if something untoward happens (heaven forbid) while Dr Marsden is out of town? :fingerscr

Rgeurts
February 6th, 2011, 07:19 PM
Even if it turned out he needed a minimal dosage to prevent seizures it would be a great improvement over what the poor little guy has had to deal with so far!!! But I hope you can wean him off entirely! :goodvibes: Do you have a back-up vet to go to if something untoward happens (heaven forbid) while Dr Marsden is out of town? :fingerscr

Dr. Marsden has given us his email address so if something happens we can email him and he will get ahold of one of the vets at his clinic. If it is an emergency then we still have our regular vet and the emergency clinic. I do have a homeopathic remedy for seizure activity, it's called Stramonium. We give that to him if we see any weird, possible neurologic behaviour. We still have a few vials of Valium as well which can hold him over until Dr. Marsden emails me back. I'm sure he will have more specific instructions for us next week. He wanted the appt. next Friday so he can complete a full evaluation before he leaves :)

Rgeurts
February 8th, 2011, 11:35 AM
Nookie isn't doing too well the last couple of days, so I think we will be heading back to the vet today instead of waiting for his checkup Friday. He has a nasty bladder infection. He was on antibiotics for a couple of weeks, Noroclav. He seemed to do better but his last dose was last Monday night and by the end of the week we knew the infection was back. We took him to our regular vet on Saturday and she put him on Baytril. But for the last 2 days we can't get him to eat, except last night ate a little dinner. This morning he threw up bile and refuses to eat again. He still seems to have some energy and wants to play, so I'm hoping and :pray:'ing it's just the antibiotics that are upsetting his tummy. He had a very small bowel movement last night night, but that's the only one since Sunday :shrug:
Keep him in your thoughts and :pray:'ers please :)

He has been doing so well until the last little while. Hopefully this is something that will be resolved and he can get back to feeling really good again :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Chris21711
February 8th, 2011, 01:10 PM
Oh Rguerts I'm so sorry to hear this news :(....poor little guy just doesn't get a break.....My thoughts and :pray:'s are with you all :o

Rgeurts
February 8th, 2011, 01:23 PM
Oh Rguerts I'm so sorry to hear this news :(....poor little guy just doesn't get a break.....My thoughts and :pray:'s are with you all :o

Thank you, Chris. It's appreciated! :grouphug:
I'm really hoping it's just the antibiotic, but with him... I'm always such a neurotic mess, even over the tiniest things :o
He has never taken Baytril, so again, I'm hoping and :pray:ing that's all it is. I was also thinking it could be the Cyclosprine ointment for the Keratoconjunctivitis Sicca, but from what I understand, it just affects the eye. Who knows :shrug:

14+kitties
February 8th, 2011, 01:29 PM
:goodvibes: :pray: :fingerscr for Nookie and you. :grouphug:

chico2
February 8th, 2011, 01:30 PM
Oh no Robyn,poor little guy and poor you,the news brings tears to my eyes,I will certainly :pray:for our little trooper,who's spent such a long time fighting against one thing or the other and for you mf:grouphug::grouphug::pray:

rainbow
February 8th, 2011, 02:14 PM
Poor Nookie. :( :grouphug:

All AB's can cause nausea but I'm wondering why your vet would prescribe Baytril when it can cause seizures in animals that are prone to having them. :confused:

luckypenny
February 8th, 2011, 02:18 PM
If you head to the vet today, please update us. All my thoughts and prayers are always with you guys :grouphug:.

rainbow
February 8th, 2011, 02:20 PM
Here's what I just found at http://www.petmedications.com/petmedications/baytril ....

As with most pet medication, there are some possible side effects with baytril. In dogs, rare, but potential side effects include, but are not limited to, gastrointestinal issues such as diarrhea or vomiting, elevated liver enzymes, seizures, depression and nervousness are also possible. Fluoroquinolones, such as baytril, can facilitate seizure activity in animals already prone to seizures and their usage should be limited accordingly. Also, due to potential joint and cartilage damage, it is often advised that Baytril should not be used in the younger canine during their rapid growth phase, approximately 2 to 8 months in small to medium dogs, 2 to 12 months in larger dogs and 2 to 18 months in giant breeds.

Sending lots of :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes: for you and Nookie. :grouphug:

Rgeurts
February 8th, 2011, 03:39 PM
Oh no Robyn,poor little guy and poor you,the news brings tears to my eyes,I will certainly :pray:for our little trooper,who's spent such a long time fighting against one thing or the other and for you mf:grouphug::grouphug::pray:

Thank you Chico!! You guys are all so awesome :cry: :grouphug:

:goodvibes: :pray: :fingerscr for Nookie and you. :grouphug:

Thank you 14+!! :grouphug:
Poor Nookie. :grouphug:

All AB's can cause nausea but I'm wondering why your vet would prescribe Baytril when it can cause seizures in animals that are prone to having them. :confused:

It's funny that you should mention that rainbow...
I was online looking at the possible side effects when I noticed that everything (and every website) I was reading said the same thing:
Should not be given to dogs who are prone to seizures :yell: :mad: :shrug:
I immediately called Dr. Marsden (Karen) and told her my concerns. She put me on hold and then came back and said the other vet must have had a lapse in judgement or just made an error because Nookie should not be on Baytril. She said it can cause joint problems as well as seizures and restlessness and should only be used as a "big gun" when there is no other alternative. So she has told me to stop giving it to him and is calling in a different antibiotic to Costco for me to pick up tonight. And vets wonder why people always complain about the cost!! I paid $40 for a 1 week supply of something that could cause serious damage to my baby! What a waste...

If you head to the vet today, please update us. All my thoughts and prayers are always with you guys .

Thank you so much LP, it's very appreciated:grouphug:
I have spoken with both Dr. Marsdens (Mr and Mrs) today. They said as long as he has some energy he should be fine until Friday. They both think it's the Baytril that has killed his appetite. Dr. Steve said that if he doesn't have a bowel movement today then we need to go in for x-rays tomorrow. He told me to fry some burger because the flavor might be more appealing and to steep some grated ginger (make tea out of it) and give him 1 tbsp every 15 minutes for a total of 4-5 tbsp then offer him food. If he isn't eating after trying fried burger and ginger tea and gets more lethargic, I will take him in tomorrow:pray:

rainbow
February 8th, 2011, 03:46 PM
It's funny that you should mention that rainbow...
I was online looking at the possible side effects when I noticed that everything (and every website) I was reading said the same thing:
Should not be given to dogs who are prone to seizures :yell: :mad: :shrug:
I immediately called Dr. Marsden (Karen) and told her my concerns. She put me on hold and then came back and said the other vet must have had a lapse in judgement or just made an error because Nookie should not be on Baytril. She said it can cause joint problems as well as seizures and restlessness and should only be used as a "big gun" when there is no other alternative. So she has told me to stop giving it to him and is calling in a different antibiotic to Costco for me to pick up tonight. And vets wonder why people always complain about the cost!! I paid $40 for a 1 week supply of something that could cause serious damage to my baby! What a waste...


I would be mighty ticked off and said "and what am I supposed to do with the baytril". :mad:

BMDLuver
February 8th, 2011, 03:46 PM
Thank you Chico!! You guys are all so awesome :cry: :grouphug:



Thank you 14+!! :grouphug:


It's funny that you should mention that rainbow...
I was online looking at the possible side effects when I noticed that everything (and every website) I was reading said the same thing:
Should not be given to dogs who are prone to seizures :yell: :mad: :shrug:
I immediately called Dr. Marsden (Karen) and told her my concerns. She put me on hold and then came back and said the other vet must have had a lapse in judgement or just made an error because Nookie should not be on Baytril. She said it can cause joint problems as well as seizures and restlessness and should only be used as a "big gun" when there is no other alternative. So she has told me to stop giving it to him and is calling in a different antibiotic to Costco for me to pick up tonight. And vets wonder why people always complain about the cost!! I paid $40 for a 1 week supply of something that could cause serious damage to my baby! What a waste...



Thank you so much LP, it's very appreciated:grouphug:
I have spoken with both Dr. Marsdens (Mr and Mrs) today. They said as long as he has some energy he should be fine until Friday. They both think it's the Baytril that has killed his appetite. Dr. Steve said that if he doesn't have a bowel movement today then we need to go in for x-rays tomorrow. He told me to fry some burger because the flavor might be more appealing and to steep some grated ginger (make tea out of it) and give him 1 tbsp every 15 minutes for a total of 4-5 tbsp then offer him food. If he isn't eating after trying fried burger and ginger tea and gets more lethargic, I will take him in tomorrow:pray:

I would be suggesting to the vets that they pay for the medication change and any tests that need to be done as a result of giving him this med. Poor guy, he doesn't need this extra setback.

rainbow
February 8th, 2011, 03:48 PM
I would be suggesting to the vets that they pay for the medication change and any tests that need to be done as a result of giving him this med. Poor guy, he doesn't need this extra setback.

Exactly ....it was their mistake and they should absorb the costs. :thumbs up

Rgeurts
February 8th, 2011, 04:14 PM
It wasn't Dr. Marsdens clinic, it was our regular vet clinic (the holisitc clinic isn't open on the weekends). I'm thinking Nookie needs a blood test as well. It says that it can cause high liver enzymes... what he threw up this morning was bright yellow bile (made him cough and choke for about 10 minutes after). As sick as he's been, he has never thrown up bile like that. I will definitely be calling our regular clinic and telling them to put a credit on my account for the Baytril. If they give me a hard time over it, they won't like my "in person" response when I'm off on Friday :frustrated:

And yes, he doesn't need this set-back. Poor little monster has a hard enough time trying to get through life without people giving him the wrong medications :(

Rgeurts
February 9th, 2011, 11:31 AM
I went home and looked at the receipt last night. I actually paid $60 for 1 week of Baytril :eek:
So I will definitely be calling them today for a refund. Monster is now on a different antibiotic. I got home last night and he was back to normal http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt115/lalastarrr/2lw3g36.gif



He had a HUGE appetite, was very playful and very happy to see mommy and daddy :cloud9: :lovestruck:
I'm pretty sure that his loss of appetite and general illness :sick: was caused by the Baytril now :yell: :frustrated:

But all the matters is he is back to his sweet, goofy, puppy self!! :D

Love4himies
February 9th, 2011, 12:18 PM
Glad to hear he is back to normal.


Although Baytril may be a good antibiotic, it has to be used with caution on both cats and dogs.

Rgeurts
February 9th, 2011, 12:41 PM
Glad to hear he is back to normal.


Although Baytril may be a good antibiotic, it has to be used with caution on both cats and dogs.

And moreso in cats/dogs that are prone to seizures. I can't believe they would even think to give him that :frustrated:

rainbow
February 9th, 2011, 01:49 PM
After all that poor Nookie has been through I can't believe it either. :wall:

Sure glad that he has bounced right back now that he is on a differenent antibiotic :thumbs up and hope that no damage was done due to the Baytril being prescibed. :fingerscr :grouphug:

hazelrunpack
February 9th, 2011, 04:42 PM
Glad he's feeling better again. We've used Baytril successfully in the past, but it is really hard on the dogs' tummies.

Rgeurts
February 9th, 2011, 04:54 PM
Glad he's feeling better again. We've used Baytril successfully in the past, but it is really hard on the dogs' tummies.

We have with Thorin and didn't have any issues. I am just really surprised that they would have given it to Nookie with his history of seizures. Well, more than surprised... I was very angry. I just wish we could find a decent place to take him to on the weekends when Dr. Marsden is closed.

chico2
February 9th, 2011, 05:10 PM
OMG,what a roller-coaster you have been on,but I am glad he's doing better:pray::pray::pray:little Nookie will do fine from now on,but I suppose you take it one day at a time:dog:

SuperWanda
February 9th, 2011, 06:52 PM
Gosh, I just read through all of these recent posts. You guys can't seem to get a break :wall:

Timber was on Baytril for almost 10 days (that was when they were suspecting some rare strain of e-coli) and it caused her to have diarrhea. I also heard that it can do damage to ligament or tendons so glad that they have switched Nanook from it now.

Rgeurts
February 9th, 2011, 07:14 PM
Gosh, I just read through all of these recent posts. You guys can't seem to get a break :wall:

Timber was on Baytril for almost 10 days (that was when they were suspecting some rare strain of e-coli) and it caused her to have diarrhea. I also heard that it can do damage to ligament or tendons so glad that they have switched Nanook from it now.

Yes, it is very bad for the joints and cartiledge. Dr. Marsden was extremely surprised that they chose Baytril for him, she was upset. He already has severe joint/muscle/ligament damage and siezures... the 2 main cautions when prescribing :shrug:

Now if Baytril was the only choice, then I could see maybe the benefit outweighing the risk. But at this point we don't even have the results of the culture/sensitivity back yet.

How is Timber today? :)

rainbow
February 9th, 2011, 07:22 PM
Did you get your refund back from the vet that prescibed it? :fingerscr

BMDLuver
February 10th, 2011, 08:59 AM
Oh good! I am so glad to hear that he is back to his normal self! You really didn't need that added stress. :thumbs up

SuperWanda
February 10th, 2011, 10:46 AM
Yes, it is very bad for the joints and cartiledge. Dr. Marsden was extremely surprised that they chose Baytril for him, she was upset. He already has severe joint/muscle/ligament damage and siezures... the 2 main cautions when prescribing :shrug:

Now if Baytril was the only choice, then I could see maybe the benefit outweighing the risk. But at this point we don't even have the results of the culture/sensitivity back yet.

How is Timber today? :)

Timber is doing well. You wouldn't believe how much fur I combed out yesterday and I also decided to give her a bath because there was so much dry skin. I am paying close attention after what you said about the thyroid. It appears that there are new guard hairs coming in under everything I've been combing out so hopefully it is just a seasonal blowing of her coat. It is supposed to get mild here for the next week so maybe she is just in an early spring shedding phase.

Her back legs tremble a lot on walks and even when she is lying down at home. Not sure if that is from her previous spinal arthritis or what is going on. Because she was so sick there may also be some residual effects from the anaplasmosis according to the California Dr. who studies tick diseases.

Thanks for asking considering you are having all these extra problems with your guy. I'm sorry I have no advice on the eye problem. I looked at the pictures of Nanook you posted and it looks so irritated. I hope the drops get it under control.

Have a good weekend!

Rgeurts
June 7th, 2011, 05:05 PM
Ok, Nookie and Thorin both had a follow-up with Dr. Marsden today. Thorin is doing GREAT!! He goes for his second dose of chemo tonight :)

We have been telling ALL the vets we see about Nookie chewing/biting/chasing his tail just prior to having seizures. Our family vet has seen it and thought it was (and still may be, who knows :shrug:) focal seizures. Nookie has been doing it a lot again lately. Dr. Marsden was doing some acupuncture on him close to the base of his tail and Nookie just freaked out! He screamed and tried to bite him (not in a vicious way, but you could tell it hurt him). So Dr. Marsden started feeling around and it was very obvious that Nookie was very upset. He started growling at his tail, biting it and then started biting his hind feet (he has chewed the hind left paw raw). We thought the biting/chewing was allergy related, but now Dr. Marsden is almost certain that Nookie has Hyperesthesia. I looked it up and all the sypmtoms fit! The pacing/whining/seizures from noise/being "angry" with his tail... all of it!! I am so torn. I don't know whether to be happy or sad lol :o
I certainly hope this is what is causing the seziures, and not epilepsy. Wouldn't that be wonderful to finally "know" what's wrong with him? Dr. Marsden said it can be treated, so we are very hopeful :D
We are still waiting for the thyroid panel to come back, so maybe once we up his meds and get the new herbs into his system for the Hyperesthesia, we may have a happier little guy! :lovestruck: :cloud9:

chico2
June 7th, 2011, 05:20 PM
Robyn,I am so glad Thorin is handling the Chemo well,hopefully his cancer will be gone and little Nookie I :pray:you'll get some definet answers as to what is wrong with him:pray:

Rgeurts
June 7th, 2011, 05:47 PM
Robyn,I am so glad Thorin is handling the Chemo well,hopefully his cancer will be gone and little Nookie I :pray:you'll get some definet answers as to what is wrong with him:pray:

Thank you chico :grouphug:
Me too! I was actually quite excited when I started reading everything :o
I know if it is Hyperesthesia instead of Epilepsy that we are just "trading" one disease for another, but at least it will be a definite diagnosis :)
He has started just howling, for no apparent reason. From what I can read, it seems to be the same as the yowling in cats that have it, so it does explain a lot of things. And it also causes seizures due to sensory overload... it just makes sense now!

hazelrunpack
June 7th, 2011, 06:28 PM
I hope the new herbs do the trick for Nookie! :fingerscr :goodvibes: Does Hyperesthesia just develop on its own, or would this be a consequence of the meningitis he had?

Glad to hear that Thorin is doing well and tolerating the chemo well! :highfive: You're doing such a good job with both of them, Robyn!

Rgeurts
June 7th, 2011, 08:38 PM
I hope the new herbs do the trick for Nookie! :fingerscr :goodvibes: Does Hyperesthesia just develop on its own, or would this be a consequence of the meningitis he had?

Glad to hear that Thorin is doing well and tolerating the chemo well! :highfive: You're doing such a good job with both of them, Robyn!

Thank you, Hazel!! :2huggers:
But it isn't us that's doing the good job, it's the vets :D
I spoke with our regular vet also. She said if it "is" Hyperesthesia, then it would have to be stemming from something. She said it's possible it's a pinched nerve in his spine and said we can bring him in for a physio treatment to see if she can locate it, then try to open it up. But from what I've read now, it can be caused from a lot of things such as brain lesions/tumors/damage etc. One thing I was thinking is just what you said, from the Menigoencephalitis. They already think he has brain damage from it (and hubby and I are quite certain they're correct :laughing:). I know it doesn't just happen for no reason, so now the trick will be to try and find out why. Once we recover a little financially, I'm thinking of taking him down to the place I took Thorin in Washington. They have a wonderful neurology dept. and let him go through the whole diagnostic session which includes an MRI. It's $1800, but that also gives us access to the neurologists and a full day evaluation. But for now, we'll try the new herbs and hopefully will see an improvement. Our regualr vet still thinks the main cause of the tail biting/seizures is his Thyroid.

MaxaLisa
June 13th, 2011, 05:24 AM
If you're into experimenting, would be curious what a round of doxycycline would do. It's a cheap experiment too....

When my girl was so sick, she was very sensitive if anyone came within about 5 inches of her. I used to tell her chiropractor that it hurt her just to touch her aura :rolleyes: She was my vaccine damaged girl, and this was when she was very young.

I initially treated her with supplements, chiro, and homeopathy. Later in life, we did use antibiotics on her and it made a huge difference. Her vet and I then debated for the next 7 or 8 years whether she really had an infection, or it was just the action of the antibiotic. She did have to go on antibiotics intermittently throughout her life.

I am so glad to hear that Thorin is doing so well :highfive:

ChucklesBay
March 18th, 2013, 11:47 AM
I am hoping this old thread will be read. I am wondering about the success of Dr. Dodds' vaccinosis protocol. Nookie's case seemed severe. My 18 week puppy has a severe thing going on that Dr. Dodds thinks is vaccinosis. We started the protocol only to have my puppy relapse as he was being tapered off the prednisone. We just upped the prednisone again and will be trying tapering later on....

Rgeurts
March 18th, 2013, 01:35 PM
I am hoping this old thread will be read. I am wondering about the success of Dr. Dodds' vaccinosis protocol. Nookie's case seemed severe. My 18 week puppy has a severe thing going on that Dr. Dodds thinks is vaccinosis. We started the protocol only to have my puppy relapse as he was being tapered off the prednisone. We just upped the prednisone again and will be trying tapering later on....

Hi ChucklesBay, and welcome to the forum! I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. Although the thread is old, I'm still around :)

Dr. Dodds had diagnosed Nookie with Vaccinosis just from his medical records and had referred us to a holistic vet named Steve Marsden. He's located in Edmonton, AB and I can't say enough wonderful things about him. We didn't actually follow the Vaccinosis protocol. Dr. Steve is very experienced and travels to lecture and teach along with Dr. Dodds. He felt that there was definitely vaccinosis, but it had been too long since the vaccines to start the protocol/detox. Dr. Steve practices TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine), Homeopathy and is a human and animal Naturopath. I was extremely skeptical, thinking if medicine couldn't help Nookie (and was, in fact, killing him), how could anything help? But it did. Nookie was about 8 months old by the time we got to Dr. Steve and everyone had told us we wouldn't have him much longer, that he wasn't going to see his first birthday. Our sweet baby turned 3 on Feb. 26 :cloud9: :lovestruck:

He still has many issues, and always will, includng grand mal seizures. But for the most part, he is a happy boy, and much more "normal" than we ever thought possible. So there is definitely hope! What are some of the symptoms/issues your pup is having? And as for the relapse, Nookie had several relapses when tapering the Pred off. I won't really go in to much detail right now, but if you respond, and would like more info, or would like to chat, let me know. I'll be sure and check back. Until then, good luck to you all and give your sweet baby a gentle hug for me :grouphug:

ChucklesBay
March 18th, 2013, 06:23 PM
Hi!

I live in California. I was just surfing the internet for a really bad vaccinosis/Dr. Dodds story and I tripped over your story.

We bought Baxter, who is a mixed breed (dad is Shih Tzu and mom is a Maltese Mix) when he was 10 weeks old. He was doing really well until his 12 week vaccine! The day he received it he vomited four times and could not be touched without wimpering. Three days later, he had a Grand Mal Seizure when I was over a friend's house. I ran him to my friend's vet who happens to be an Integrated Vet (this part ended up working out well). The next day, Baxter had 2 more seizures and we ran him to the doggy ER. He was placed on Keppra. Two weeks later, I changed to a liquid form of Keppra and got sloppy with the administration (because it was a liquid that Baxter did not like)--and, he grew. He had two more seizures and we ran him back to the ER. He was due for a Titer Test the upcoming week. His Keppra dose was increased and we went back to the pill.

At this time, I spoke to someone who told me to contact Dr. Dodds with Baxter's story.

By the way, Baxter does not have a liver shunt or hypoglycemia (checked). We have NOT gotten him an MRI or Spinal Tap because those tests are extremely expensive and normally come with a bad prognosis.

We started Baxter on Dr. Dodds' vaccinosis protocol. All was well until we started tapering the Prednisone. Baxter went into seizure on the third day of tapering. I wrote to Dr. Dodds who told me it still can be vaccinosis. Baxter's neurologist is suspicious of an underlying disease. Baxter's new vet (my friend's vet). No matter what, all the vets think that Baxter needs to go back on the full Prednisone dose and deal with tapering later.

After 7-8 seizures (loosing count)...I can see that Baxter gets hyper a day before a seizure. He can be slightly aggressive during this period. Other than that, Baxter's personality is rather normal for a puppy!!!!

Rgeurts
March 18th, 2013, 11:16 PM
Hi!

I live in California. I was just surfing the internet for a really bad vaccinosis/Dr. Dodds story and I tripped over your story.

We bought Baxter, who is a mixed breed (dad is Shih Tzu and mom is a Maltese Mix) when he was 10 weeks old. He was doing really well until his 12 week vaccine! The day he received it he vomited four times and could not be touched without wimpering. Three days later, he had a Grand Mal Seizure when I was over a friend's house. I ran him to my friend's vet who happens to be an Integrated Vet (this part ended up working out well). The next day, Baxter had 2 more seizures and we ran him to the doggy ER. He was placed on Keppra. Two weeks later, I changed to a liquid form of Keppra and got sloppy with the administration (because it was a liquid that Baxter did not like)--and, he grew. He had two more seizures and we ran him back to the ER. He was due for a Titer Test the upcoming week. His Keppra dose was increased and we went back to the pill.

At this time, I spoke to someone who told me to contact Dr. Dodds with Baxter's story.

By the way, Baxter does not have a liver shunt or hypoglycemia (checked). We have NOT gotten him an MRI or Spinal Tap because those tests are extremely expensive and normally come with a bad prognosis.

We started Baxter on Dr. Dodds' vaccinosis protocol. All was well until we started tapering the Prednisone. Baxter went into seizure on the third day of tapering. I wrote to Dr. Dodds who told me it still can be vaccinosis. Baxter's neurologist is suspicious of an underlying disease. Baxter's new vet (my friend's vet). No matter what, all the vets think that Baxter needs to go back on the full Prednisone dose and deal with tapering later.

After 7-8 seizures (loosing count)...I can see that Baxter gets hyper a day before a seizure. He can be slightly aggressive during this period. Other than that, Baxter's personality is rather normal for a puppy!!!!


I'm glad to see you came back :)

You're little guys story sounds a lot like Nookies when he was a baby. He was close to 12 weeks when he had his first grand mal, and it was shortly after receiving his second set of vaccines. We knew he was sick when we got him (and that's one reason we got him, he needed some TLC), but we didn't realize how bad it was. This is the link to his facebook page. It has his story and all the issues, tests and treatments we have been through. The page is public, so you shouldn't need an account to view it:

http://www.facebook.com/nanookthemiraclemalamute

One thing I will say is that it has not been cheap. To date, his treatment has cost us more than $35,000. His first diagnoses came from a CSF tap (spinal tap) and consisted of sterile meningitis, encephalitis and possible Neospora infection, though I think the Neospora was an incorrect diagnoses. He was also diagnosed by an internal specialist as having Idiopathic Eosiniphilic Syndrome, which I also believe was just a very good educated guess. From what I could find on the internet regarding that disorder, there were only 10 documented cases worldwide up to the point of the last study done in 2004.

It was Dr. Dodds diagnoses of Vaccinosis that seemed to fit. He was already on Prednisone at that point for the Meningoencephalitis along with Phenobarbital and a chemo drug called Azathioprine to suppress his immune system even further. Every time we tried to taper the Pred down, the seizures would flare. So the Azathioprine was added so the Pred could be reduced. It was working, but the problem was that it was also killing him. He had severe issues with his liver and he ended up with internal bleeding and had to have a blood transfusion. That's when we were put in touch with Dr. Dodds and Dr. Steve Marsden. Dr. Steve is also a DVM as well as all the natural designations, so he knows his stuff... both western medicine and holistic/chinese. He weaned Nookie off all the meds, including the phenobarbital and got the inflammation in his brain reduced with Chinese herbs as well as giving his immune system a boost. He also got the seizures under control with Chinese herbs and homeopathic pellets. I don't know if you can afford to see a holistic vet, but if you can, I'd highly recommend it. I'm sure Dr. Dodds can put you in touch with someone who knows their stuff. I wouldn't go to just anyone though, there are a lot of bad ones out there just like regular vets. If you can't afford it, that's ok... just do what you can :)

A couple of tips though... diet is crucial when trying to keep seizures at bay. Most vets will push the prescription diets, which are garbage. You want as natural a diet as possible. If you can home cook, wonderful! If not, there are commercial diets that are pretty good. And for as small as your guy is, it shouldn't be too expensive. What we feed is NRG Maxim. It's a dehydrated raw and has no added supplements, nothing artificial. It's a real, whole food diet, and the only one I know of where all the nutrition comes from the food itself, which is why there are no added vitamins/minerals. The meat is free range and antibiotic/hormone free and the veggies are non GMO and locally sourced (as well as the meats). This is a link to it:

http://www.nrgpetproducts.com/

I would avoid a raw diet until you know what's going on. If you're guy is having an immune-mediated response, the bacteria and parasites in raw can be harmful. Talk to your vet about it. You also want to use filtered water if possible, and avoid any foods/treats with Rosemary. And this one is very important... NO vaccines. The mistake we made with Nookie is not doing enough research and being ignorant to what was happening with him. He seemed to be getting better, good length in between the seizures and all was going well, until our vet had us bring him in for his 6 month shots. She gave him all the shots, including the rabies on the same day. It sparked everything up again, he had a horrible seizure the next day and we had to cancel our vacation and start all over again with the high doses of Pred. I wish I had known then what I know now. You never give all the vaccines at the same time. The rabies, if given at all, should be given at least 2 weeks apart from the others. But if you have a dog prone to seizures, you shouldn't vaccinate at all. Ok, I hope I haven't overwhelmed you! If I have confused you at all, please let me know and I'll try to clarify. If you have questions about anything at all, please feel free to ask. I'm more than happy to share any info I have obtained on our "journey" with Nookie. I also use Facebook daily, so if you would like to add me, let know know and I'll post my link. I also have some links to dog seizures sites, so if you would like them, let me know. Take care and good luck to you all! :grouphug:

ChucklesBay
March 18th, 2013, 11:46 PM
Hummm....well, since the vaccine that seemed to push Baxter over the edge, we have spent quite a bit of money and, we don't have pet insurance.

I want to reread your post then go to your Facebook link and study it closely. You may hit with some questions. Nookie's case sounds eerily similar to Baxter's case except Baxter looked really healthy the day I brought him home. He is the runt of the litter, though....

Baxter is on an all-turkey diet. It is canned but it is turkey and healthy. I will write more later:)

Thank you!!!!

Rgeurts
March 19th, 2013, 12:28 AM
Just a couple more things. There are certain medications you should avoid also, and you would be surprised at the amount of vets that don't know them. A lot of vets have never had to deal with issues like the ones we are going through. A couple of the drugs to avoid are any flea/tick medications and certain antibiotics like Baytril and any others in the fluoroquinolone "family". Some antibiotics can actually cause seizures, while others just lower the seizure threshold. Also, Convenia is one to avoid whether there is already seizure activity or not. It's caused many deaths in both dogs and cats. It's a shot that a lot of vets swear by for a few reasons such as not having to "pill" the pet, not causing the tummy upset and long lasting, which is also the problem. It's an injection that stays in the bloodstream for over 60 days. If the animal has a reaction, there is nothing to counter it and they can die. The only treatment is to treat the symptoms and hope the pet will recover. It's bad news. Ok, done!

Rgeurts
March 19th, 2013, 12:33 AM
Hummm....well, since the vaccine that seemed to push Baxter over the edge, we have spent quite a bit of money and, we don't have pet insurance.

I want to reread your post then go to your Facebook link and study it closely. You may hit with some questions. Nookie's case sounds eerily similar to Baxter's case except Baxter looked really healthy the day I brought him home. He is the runt of the litter, though....

Baxter is on an all-turkey diet. It is canned but it is turkey and healthy. I will write more later:)

Thank you!!!!

I can relate! Sadly, we didn't have pet insurance either. We were in the process of getting it when Nookie had his first seizure. As for "looking" healthy, Nookie did too. He was filthy, and had diarrhea (he was full of parasites), but otherwise, seemingly healthy until that first grand mal. This is a picture of him a few days after we got him:

MaxaLisa
March 19th, 2013, 12:34 AM
I believe that the best way to addres vaccinosis is through homeopathy. My dog had severe vaccinosis from her vaccines, and cornell diagnosed her with an immune complex disease from her lyme vaccine. I could not have gotten her reasonably well without the help of a good homeopathic vet, and a lot of work and care. The vet I used is near santa Rosa sebastopol, not sure what area you are in, or if you're willing to work with an "out there" modality.

Rgeurts
March 19th, 2013, 10:28 AM
I believe that the best way to addres vaccinosis is through homeopathy. My dog had severe vaccinosis from her vaccines, and cornell diagnosed her with an immune complex disease from her lyme vaccine. I could not have gotten her reasonably well without the help of a good homeopathic vet, and a lot of work and care. The vet I used is near santa Rosa sebastopol, not sure what area you are in, or if you're willing to work with an "out there" modality.

:thumbs up:thumbs up:thumbs up

I couldn't agree more. That's the only thing that saved Nookies life. The "meds" help keep some of the seizures at bay because it reduced the swelling in his brain, but was also killing him in other ways. It was only after he came off all the drugs, started on herbs and homeopathics that he actually started to live. And for someone like me (at least back then), it was a huge leap of faith. I wasn't a believer at all. Now, after seeing the miracles for Nookie, I have started seeing Dr. Steve for myself as well. My puppy and I have the same Dr. :laughing:

MaxaLisa
March 19th, 2013, 02:42 PM
Similar thing here! Indy, my first dog, was the one that introduced me to all these things - I turned over every rock to help her, it was a whole new world :o