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cat with early kidney disease

Lefties Rule
October 24th, 2010, 03:54 PM
Hi, just joined this site, and can't find an existing thread on this issue, so am starting one. My kitty is a 16 year old rescue cat (adopted with her sister when they were about 3 months old), so has always been with me. She was diagnosed with early stage CRF about 6 months ago, and has been doing amazingly well so far and is stable, which I'm so thankful for. of course, I have the big problem that all owners of CRF cats have, which is tempting her to eat when she's not feeling well and has no appetite.
I do my best and have my ways! However, for canned food she will only eat pate-type. If the food is in chunks or bits with broth or gravy, she just licks up all the juicy stuff and refuses to eat the solid bits. The problem is most canned cat foods now are in bits and gravy so my choices are severely restricted, since I also have to choose ones that are low in phosphorous and salt, and somewhat low-ish in protein. Such information is almost impossible to find, and I'm wondering if anybody out there has some brand names that could work. I'd be happy to give more info about what I'm using now, and whatever else.
Thanks so much for any input!
Rosebud's mom:cat:

14+kitties
October 24th, 2010, 04:15 PM
Can't get much better info than in this thread.........

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=45017

growler~GateKeeper
October 24th, 2010, 08:38 PM
Hi Lefties Rule :) welcome to the forum.

As 14+ as posted for you the stickied thread at the top of the cat health forum is all about CRF.

How is Rusebud feeling overall physically and emotionally? Showing any symptoms?

Do you have Rosebud's lab values with refernce ranges?

Is she being treated with diet alone at this point or do you have her on fluids, antacids, or supplements?

To get to your food question what are you currently feeding and what were you feeding previously? Is Rosebud on canned only? If not what dry is she eating? Switching to a canned only will be the way to go once you get her eating reliably.

What pet food stores are available to you? A smaller local supply store that carries holistic foods will have a better selection of these foods or may be able to order in for you.

Here is a variety of good holistic low phos foods for you to start. Wellness, Innove, Evo are pate for the others check the label on the can

By Nature Organics (http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/productpages/organiccannedcat.php) Turkey & Turkey Liver, Chicken & Chicken Liver, Turkey & Chicken, Chicken & Mackerel, Beef & Beef Liver

Innova Flex Beef & Barley Stew (http://www.innovapet.com/products/default.asp?id=1693)
Evo 95% Chicken & Turkey (http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1662)

Felidae Platinum (http://www.canidae.com/cats/platinum/canned.html)
Felidae Cat & Kitten (http://www.canidae.com/cats/cat_and_kitten/canned.html)
Felidae Grain Free (http://www.canidae.com/cats/grain-free-cat-food/canned.html)

Merricks Before Grain 96% Beef (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=114&s=20481)
Merricks Before Grain 96% Turkey (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=114&s=20480)

Merricks Cowboy Cookout (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=52&s=20246)
Merricks Thanksgiving Day Dinner (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=52&s=01803)

Halo Spots Stew Wholesome Chicken (http://shop.halopets.com/Canned-Cat-Food/Wholesome-Chicken-Recipe-3-5-oz)
Halo Spots Stew Wholesome Turkey (http://shop.halopets.com/Canned-Cat-Food/Cat-Canned-Turkey-3-5oz)

Wellness (http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/recipes.aspx?pet=cat&ft=2) Turkey, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, Beef & Salmon, Kitten, Wellness Core Chicken Turkey & Chicken Liver

Holistic Select Turkey & Barley (http://www.holisticselect.com/product.aspx?pet=cat&cat=2&pid=33)
Holistic Select Duck & Chicken (http://www.holisticselect.com/product.aspx?pet=cat&cat=2&pid=30)

Many more choices listed here http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm#food_data_tables

rainbow
October 24th, 2010, 09:50 PM
Hi again Lefties Rule :D

Sorry to hear about Rosebud :grouphug: but just wanted to say that you will not find any better information that what growler gives you .....she has helped many members here with crf kitties. :thumbs up

I forgot to ask you for pics in your "intro" thread so I hope you have some of Rosebud that you will share with us. :goodvibes:

Lefties Rule
October 26th, 2010, 06:29 PM
Hi and thankyou for the messages, Growler, Rainbow and 14+! My kitty, Rosebud, is doing very well. The vet told me she has "early stage kidney disease". I just looked for the lab values on her from 6 months ago, and can't find it, so I may have forgotten to get a copy, but I definitely will. I remember her creatinine was elevated, don't remember what else.

Just before she got feeling obviously unwell and vomiting, I remember thinking that she was peeing a lot, and wondered if she was maybe diabetic. But now I know that this is one of the symptoms of early CRF. She no longer does that. She is overweight (something that I swear on my honour I will never allow to happen to any pet of mine again.) This is 100% my fault. She also has chronic bronchitis, and when I took her in 6 months ago, the vet prescribed very low dose Predisolone for 2 weeks, and then a 1/2 dose Pred every other day. I really, really didn't want to do this, but decided to give it a try, and now her bronchitis symptoms are virtually gone. Her maintenance Pred dose is 2.5 mg every other day. I'm telling you this, because growler is asking how she's feeling overall. On her Pred days she's a little perkier, has a little more energy and playfulness, and her appetite is somewhat better. On non-Pred days, not so much. But she does seem to be doing fairly well generally, physically and emotionally. Every week or so, she will vomit (once), but that seems to happen mainly when she's eaten a bit too much volume, and usually it's kibble.

I watch her like a hawk, and I've sort of trained her to drink water from my drinking glass, which she thinks is fun, and encourage her to drink this way several times a day, and always right after she eats dry kibble. The amazing thing about this is she actually usually does. I expected a fair amount of resistance to this.

As for her diet now, she eats both wet and dry, and I mix it up a lot to keep her interest up. I have her on:
MediCal Mature dry kibble (she will not eat Medical kidney formula), and some MediCal Mature canned.
Hill's Geriatric dry and canned - these are actually formulas made for cats with early stage kidney disease. Okay, I've run out of space, so will write more soon!
Rosebud's mom:goodvibes:

rainbow
October 26th, 2010, 11:11 PM
Medi-Cal and Hills are not what you should be feeding a cat with kidney disease. You need to give her a food that is low in phosphorous like Wellness or the other brands that growler listed and also stop feeding her dry kibble..

growler~GateKeeper
October 28th, 2010, 04:17 AM
She also has chronic bronchitis, and when I took her in 6 months ago, the vet prescribed very low dose Predisolone for 2 weeks, and then a 1/2 dose Pred every other day. I really, really didn't want to do this, but decided to give it a try, and now her bronchitis symptoms are virtually gone. Her maintenance Pred dose is 2.5 mg every other day. I'm telling you this, because growler is asking how she's feeling overall. On her Pred days she's a little perkier, has a little more energy and playfulness, and her appetite is somewhat better. On non-Pred days, not so much. But she does seem to be doing fairly well generally, physically and emotionally. Every week or so, she will vomit (once), but that seems to happen mainly when she's eaten a bit too much volume, and usually it's kibble.

Good that overall she is feeling well & her appetite is picking up :thumbs up

Is there a dramatic difference between pred/non-pred days or is it just noticable?

Is she taking any other medications?

I would suggest raising her food & water dishes up between 2-6 inches off the ground, place a phonebook, low plant table, upsidedown flat box etc under the dishes but ensure they won't slip off & startle her while eating/drinking. Raising the dishes will help avoid nausea from excess stomach acid in the future & may help with the vomiting now.

Pred has a tendency to increase stomach acid which often will lead to nausea & vomiting, raising the dishes places the cats head higher than their stomach keeping the acid in the stomach & out of the throat. If a cat is experiencing nausea it will dissuade them from eating, which can lead to more complications.

Ideally kidney cats should not be on any corticosteriods as they can lead to a host of other issues, but if that is the only/best thing to treat the bronchitis you & your vet will need to monitor the dosage/side effects closely http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#corticosteroids

I watch her like a hawk, and I've sort of trained her to drink water from my drinking glass, which she thinks is fun, and encourage her to drink this way several times a day, and always right after she eats dry kibble. The amazing thing about this is she actually usually does. I expected a fair amount of resistance to this.

As for her diet now, she eats both wet and dry, and I mix it up a lot to keep her interest up. I have her on:
MediCal Mature dry kibble (she will not eat Medical kidney formula), and some MediCal Mature canned.
Hill's Geriatric dry and canned - these are actually formulas made for cats with early stage kidney disease. Okay, I've run out of space, so will write more soon!
Rosebud's mom:goodvibes:

As mentioned the canned foods below are all low in phos & are more healthy alternatives with higher quality protein & ingredients than the prescription foods.

One problem with the prescription foods is there is very little quality meat protein, kidney cats will lose muscle mass especially if their appetites drop, if there is not sufficient meat based protein in their diets they become weaker. Once they start losing weight it is harder to put it back on.

The theory of low protein diets for kidney cats is outdated, low phos is what you need to look for in food but not at the cost of quality ingredients.

Some reading on protein & CRF here: http://www.felinecrf.org/nutritional_requirements.htm#protein

All cats, but most especially ones with urinary tract or kidney issues need to be fed exclusively canned or raw food, & no dry krunchies. Most of their moisture should come from their food, as their ancestry/biology shows, moisture is retained more effectively when ingested with the food. (Same with people - if you drank 2 cups of water it's going to move through you faster than if you ate 2 cups of cream soup). If fed a mostly dry krunchie diet the cats aren't retaining as much moisture, and the need to drink rises as the level of dehydration increases.

Biologically cats are structured to require drinking very little water as they retain & recycle much of the water/fluid content in their bodies. The cats kidneys are unique in that they concentrate liquid waste and remove the toxins (urea etc) with the least amount of water possible (one reason cat pee smells quite strong, it's highly concentrated), the rest of the water is cleaned so it may be used again elsewhere in the body.

When a cat developes kidney failure the kidneys can no longer clean & reuse as much water as before, this leads to needing more water to flush the toxins from the body via urine output. Losing more necessary water in their urine means there is less moisture cycling though their body, therefore they need to drink to compensate, but already being low they can't possible drink enough to replensh what is being continually lost.


Here is a variety of good holistic low phos foods for you to start. Wellness, Innove, Evo are pate for the others check the label on the can

By Nature Organics (http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/productpages/organiccannedcat.php) Turkey & Turkey Liver, Chicken & Chicken Liver, Turkey & Chicken, Chicken & Mackerel, Beef & Beef Liver

Innova Flex Beef & Barley Stew (http://www.innovapet.com/products/default.asp?id=1693)
Evo 95% Chicken & Turkey (http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1662)

Felidae Platinum (http://www.canidae.com/cats/platinum/canned.html)
Felidae Cat & Kitten (http://www.canidae.com/cats/cat_and_kitten/canned.html)
Felidae Grain Free (http://www.canidae.com/cats/grain-free-cat-food/canned.html)

Merricks Before Grain 96% Beef (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=114&s=20481)
Merricks Before Grain 96% Turkey (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=114&s=20480)

Merricks Cowboy Cookout (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=52&s=20246)
Merricks Thanksgiving Day Dinner (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=52&s=01803)

Halo Spots Stew Wholesome Chicken (http://shop.halopets.com/Canned-Cat-Food/Wholesome-Chicken-Recipe-3-5-oz)
Halo Spots Stew Wholesome Turkey (http://shop.halopets.com/Canned-Cat-Food/Cat-Canned-Turkey-3-5oz)

Wellness (http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/recipes.aspx?pet=cat&ft=2) Turkey, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, Beef & Salmon, Kitten, Wellness Core Chicken Turkey & Chicken Liver

Holistic Select Turkey & Barley (http://www.holisticselect.com/product.aspx?pet=cat&cat=2&pid=33)
Holistic Select Duck & Chicken (http://www.holisticselect.com/product.aspx?pet=cat&cat=2&pid=30)

Many more choices listed here http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm#food_data_tables

:goodvibes:

Lefties Rule
October 29th, 2010, 08:20 PM
Answers to some of Growler's queries:
Re. difference between Rosebud's Pred days and non-Pred days:
The difference is not dramatic; and in fact, the difference seems to be getting gradually less and less noticeable. Rosebud has had this condition (bronchitis) for several years, but I always resisted the vet's urging to put her on Pred, since I know a bit about the drug's risks. But now, with her kidney disease, I have relented, and just want to keep her as comfortable as possible, and her quality of life as high as possible.

No, she is not on any other meds. The vet and I are just trying to manage her diet accordingly, and as anybody with a CRF cat learns, is a challenge. Thanks so much for the info. on Tanya's website; I've printed and studied reams of material! I'm assuming that phosphorous is the most dangerous substance for CRF. Unfortunately, it apparantly comes from protein, which is why CRF diets are low in protein? But then there's the conundrum: cats are obligate carnivores, so at what percentage-protein level does it change from a kindness to a cruelty?

I will try to elevate her food dish; thks for the tip. Maybe that's why she's so receptive to drinking water out of my drinking glass, which I always keep raised to a comfortable level for her.

I'm now on a quest to find the brands of food that you suggest, which is also a challenge since I live in a small city in the boonies, and my best chance of obtaining good quality food is online. But I'm very determined. Thankyou again for the support - it means so much to me.
Rosebud's mom Oct. 29/10

Lefties Rule
October 30th, 2010, 10:12 AM
Me again... I now have a copy of Rosebud's lab work, from 6 months ago.
elevated values:
amylase = 1351
BUN = 49
creatinine = 2.9
all other values within normal range. And the vet didn't say anything about haematology results, so I assume she's okay with that.

Helen(?) form Tanya's website seems not entirely keen on Wellness, saying that it's acidifed, which is not that great for CRF cats. But it has otherwise excellent values, and...... it's in a pate form, which is the only form my kitty will eat!!!
Merricks won't work for me because of the "stew" formula (she will just lick up the water/gravy, and leave the solids), and same with Spot's Stew.
But maybe I could throw the contents of a can into a small blender, like a Magic Bullet thing, and try to pure' it.
What about Wysong geriatric?
And also, thanks to the wonderful advice from all who have replied to my posts, I'm now in the process of weaning her off dry kibble. Tricky, because she has been on mostly kibble all her life.
Cheers!
Rosebud's mom :thumbs up

rainbow
October 30th, 2010, 11:49 PM
I'm now on a quest to find the brands of food that you suggest, which is also a challenge since I live in a small city in the boonies, and my best chance of obtaining good quality food is online. But I'm very determined. Thankyou again for the support - it means so much to me.
Rosebud's mom Oct. 29/10

Have you checked out Top Crop Garden, Farm and Pet Supply on Cranbrook St? It had the best selection of pet food when we lived there but I am sure there are many other independent pet stores there by now which is where you will find the top quality foods. :thumbs up



Helen(?) form Tanya's website seems not entirely keen on Wellness, saying that it's acidifed, which is not that great for CRF cats. But it has otherwise excellent values, and...... it's in a pate form, which is the only form my kitty will eat!!!
Merricks won't work for me because of the "stew" formula (she will just lick up the water/gravy, and leave the solids), and same with Spot's Stew.
But maybe I could throw the contents of a can into a small blender, like a Magic Bullet thing, and try to pure' it.
What about Wysong geriatric?
And also, thanks to the wonderful advice from all who have replied to my posts, I'm now in the process of weaning her off dry kibble. Tricky, because she has been on mostly kibble all her life.
Cheers!
Rosebud's mom :thumbs up

From reading lots of kitty threads here it seems like Wellness is the #1 favourite for crf kitties but I will let the cat gurus here answer that as well as your Wysong question. Glad to hear that you are weaning her off the kibble though. :thumbs up

growler~GateKeeper
October 31st, 2010, 01:05 AM
The difference is not dramatic; and in fact, the difference seems to be getting gradually less and less noticeable.

This is good, means the Pred is doing it's job and seems like she is at a good level with her dosage & doesn't need it everyday.

I'm assuming that phosphorous is the most dangerous substance for CRF. Unfortunately, it apparantly comes from protein, which is why CRF diets are low in protein? But then there's the conundrum: cats are obligate carnivores, so at what percentage-protein level does it change from a kindness to a cruelty?

Unless the blood tests show very high blood protein levels or the urinalysis shows protein leaking in the urine, protein amount in food it not really a big concern of mine, unless of course the food also has a very high phos content. :2cents: I fed my CRF cat a raw diet for close to three years, she never once had high blood protein, nor did she have high blood phos levels and only twice did she have just tiny trace amounts of proteinuria early on in the diagnosis prior to switching to raw food.

To me the bigger issue with low protein diets is the muscle wasting that happens with CRF cats, they become weaker & more frail, loosing more & more weight. Once a chronically ill cat has lost muscle mass it's not easy to build it back up.

Yes phos is the main concern more so than protein, one thing to consider is the quality of the protein, higher quality will have lower phos levels.

Here's an interesting comparison:

Wellness Chicken canned first ingredient is chicken
According to the USDA National Nutrient Database 100g of chicken (all parts) meat only, stewed (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl) has 150mg of phosphorus.

Hills' k/d canned prescription renal diet first ingredient after water is pork liver
According to the USDA National Nutrient Database 100g of pork liver, cooked (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl) has 241mg of phosphorus :eek:

Obviously the manufactures don't give us the weight amounts or the cooking methods they use in their formulas but something to think about anyways.

Me again... I now have a copy of Rosebud's lab work, from 6 months ago.
elevated values:
amylase = 1351
BUN = 49
creatinine = 2.9
all other values within normal range. And the vet didn't say anything about haematology results, so I assume she's okay with that.

Did the vet do a urinalysis? Specifically looking for the Urine Specific Gravity and protein in urine numbers.

Do you have the reference ranges for these numbers? When you post numbers could you please post the reference range from the lab as well, various labs may have machines calabrated differently so there may be significant differences between tests run by another lab.

Some info here on amylase (http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis.htm#amylase), unless Rosebud is showing signs of pancreatitis, it's not uncommon for the increase on the bloodwork of a CRF kitty. If the value continues to increase or she shows signs of being sicker than her bun/cre values should correspond to, then it may be an issue to look into.

Helen(?) form Tanya's website seems not entirely keen on Wellness, saying that it's acidifed, which is not that great for CRF cats. But it has otherwise excellent values, and...... it's in a pate form, which is the only form my kitty will eat!!!

If you are concerned about the cranberries/slight acidity of Wellness but Rosebud still likes it, you could just feed 1-2 times per week/month.

Merricks won't work for me because of the "stew" formula (she will just lick up the water/gravy, and leave the solids), and same with Spot's Stew.
But maybe I could throw the contents of a can into a small blender, like a Magic Bullet thing, and try to pure' it.

You could try pureeing a chunky style food & see if she would eat it :shrug:, but I would suggest buying a single can locally first rather than ordering a case & her not touching it :rolleyes: :cat:. Also try crushing a krunchie on top, the smell will help her to recognize it as food.

What about Wysong geriatric?

I've never fed Wysong food, though I'm not that thrilled with it because some are listed/labeled as not nutritionally complete & sometimes it can be difficult to assertain exactly which is/not based on their labels. If you look at the info on the page for canned Geriatrx (http://www.wysong.net/products/geriatrx-holistic-natural-canned-cat-food.php) it says it's "designed to fulfill the nutritional needs of aging cats", but when you read closer & also on the label of the can (available for viewing in pdf) it says "for supplemental feeding". Wysong defines supplemental feeding as "Meaning, to be fed as an adjunct to base diets and as a part of a feeding rotation. Wysong recommends no one food be fed exclusively." Because some foods are labeled not nutritionally complete and some are, it would be easy to mix up those that are & those that aren't. I would not use it as an exclusive diet, but maybe 1-2 times a week/month :2cents:

You don't have to feed an exclusive diet of just one type/brand of food, it is good if you can have a couple in rotation so she isn't tired of it quickly & then refusing to eat. With CRF cats in particular if they start refusing a certain brand/flavour food you need to find an alternate pretty quick.

I'm now in the process of weaning her off dry kibble. Tricky, because she has been on mostly kibble all her life.

If Rosebud is resisting the canned only you can crush a couple of krunchies & use that as a topping on her canned - smells like krunchies :cat: (cats eat based first on smell, then taste), until she's reliably eating canned only, it might also be the thing that gets her to try different textures/flavours.

:goodvibes:

Lefties Rule
November 1st, 2010, 10:27 AM
re. ranges for Rosebud's lab work:
Thks; I didn't realize that the machines doing the blood analysis may not be calibrated the same - figured they would all be standardized. So here are the values again with normal ranges.
amylase = 1351 (300-1100)
bun = 49 (10- 30)
cre = 2.9 (0.3- 2.1)
Not sure which values would relate to blood protein. Would it be "alb"? (albumin?) I used to be a medical lab technologist so I should remeber these things, but don't. :D
The vet didn't do a urinalysis; she wasn't in the clinic very long.

Thanks, Rainbow, for the suggestion about Top Crop - will investigate.

To Growler; Maybe I'll order a case of Wellness Chicken. I have to order a case (Top Crop), can't try a single can. (But I can always give the unused cans to the SPCA) Based on the high recommendations, I ordered a case of Wellness turkey a few months ago, and Rosebud hates it. Will not go near it unless mixed with something tasty like fancy Feast.

Growler; Thanks so much for the info about phos levels in chicken compared to phos in Hill's - ARE YOU KIDDING??? Why would they use a protein source so high in phos in a diet for a CRF cat? And re. Wysong. Well I'm glad I didn't order any of it!

Okay, gotta get ready for work; thanks again for the eye-opening input, guys.
Rosebud's mom.

rainbow
November 1st, 2010, 12:39 PM
Thanks, Rainbow, for the suggestion about Top Crop - will investigate.

To Growler; Maybe I'll order a case of Wellness Chicken. I have to order a case (Top Crop), can't try a single can. (But I can always give the unused cans to the SPCA) Based on the high recommendations, I ordered a case of Wellness turkey a few months ago, and Rosebud hates it. Will not go near it unless mixed with something tasty like fancy Feast.


Top Crop makes you buy a whole case? :eek: I would look in your phone book under Pet Stores and start phoning around to see where else you can purchase it. :thumbs up

As far as Rosebud not wanting the Wellness turkey without FF mixed in, I would say go ahead and mix it but just keep slowly decreasing the amount of FF until she doesn't notice. :goodvibes:

growler~GateKeeper
November 2nd, 2010, 02:09 AM
re. ranges for Rosebud's lab work:
Thks; I didn't realize that the machines doing the blood analysis may not be calibrated the same - figured they would all be standardized. So here are the values again with normal ranges.
amylase = 1351 (300-1100)
bun = 49 (10- 30)
cre = 2.9 (0.3- 2.1)
Not sure which values would relate to blood protein. Would it be "alb"? (albumin?) I used to be a medical lab technologist so I should remeber these things, but don't. :D

Yeah it all depends on which lab is used, different ones have different ranges all across the world. A standard single range across every lab would be nice but :shrug:

Numbers are not too bad based on the reference ranges :thumbs up

The blood protein values are listed as albumin (alb), globulin (glob), a:g ratio and the combined amount listed as Total Protein (TP).

The vet didn't do a urinalysis; she wasn't in the clinic very long.

Next appointment they should be testing the urine, to check the values I mentioned. Urine specific gravity is an especially important one to watch to see how much water she is needing to flush the toxins from her kidneys.

To Growler; Maybe I'll order a case of Wellness Chicken. I have to order a case (Top Crop), can't try a single can. (But I can always give the unused cans to the SPCA) Based on the high recommendations, I ordered a case of Wellness turkey a few months ago, and Rosebud hates it. Will not go near it unless mixed with something tasty like fancy Feast.

If Rosebud refused the Wellness before I would try a different brand, she may like something else better. Evo 95% Chicken & Turkey (http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1662) would be next on my list :2cents: just make sure it's the 95% with the orange label, not the regular canned chicken with a purple label. At least this way if you do have to order a full case you can try her on something new.

Hopefully there are other stores you can find that have stock on hand or don't require ordering a full case before you know if she'll eat it. :fingerscr

Natura's store locator came up with:

Pretty Pooch Paws N Spa
107 3rd St. S
Cranbrook, BC V1C 1E7
250-489-1110

Give them a call see what flavours they stock & what other brands they have, also see if they will order in for you.

Growler; Thanks so much for the info about phos levels in chicken compared to phos in Hill's - ARE YOU KIDDING??? Why would they use a protein source so high in phos in a diet for a CRF cat?

:shrug: Obviously the amounts they are using per can do not total 241mg phos, but there's also not a whole lot of meat protein in those prescription kidney diets, certainly not enough to satisfy my peace of mind. :2cents:

Blur's_Mom
November 5th, 2010, 11:35 PM
Hi Lefty
You have come to the best place to get info for your CRF kitty. Growler is the best!!

My 16 year old cat, Blur, was diagnoses in August 2010 and he sound like he has the same taste in food as Rosebud. I try to get him to eat Wellness Turkey, which he will sometimes, but not always. He will sometimes try Merricks Thansgving Day Dinner as it is less chunky than Cowboy Cookout, but that doesn't usually go over well either. My other cat (17 year old Spot) will eat Merrick's so at least she will eat it up when he doesn't.

Blur loves licking the gravy off Wellness Healthy Indulgence Turkey and Duck pouches (0.86% phos) and will even eat a couple chunks of food once in a while. Once he licks the juice off, I add a couple tablespoons of water and he usually licks that up too. It is expensive cat water, but sometimes it gets him started and then he will move on and eat canned food.

My best option on a regular basis seems to be EVO 95% chicken and turkey (0.88% phos). When he has been really picky and I have been forced to try other things (having worked through all the natural foods) I even tried a few tins of the lower phos Hill's Science diet, which he likes. I keep a few on hand when he turns his nose up at everything else now, but it is not my first choice.

I have tried them all, even buying some Fancy Feast once when he was looking especially thin. But it was so gross. Of course he loved it, but I can't buy it again. He also loves Natural Balance, but all their varieties are higher Phos (1.69%). I have emailed the company asking them to start working on a better formula for CRF cats, but I won't hold my breath. I keep one can in the cupboard for emergencies, cause even with high phos it has to be better than Fancy Feast!

My hubby built little cat food stands (I should post a picture sometime) for my cats' food dishes and since using them Blur seems to be throwing up less. He's always had a bit of a tendency to throw up, so I am kind of used to it.

Blur was never very keen on dry food, but I bought Now Grain Free Adult dry food (0.65% phos) to transition Spot to a lower phos dry as she ate dry almost exclusively until I learned that wasn't a good choice. Luckily with all the great canned food choices I put out for Blur now, she eats very little dry now and he doesn't eat it at all.

Other than that he has Sub_Q's twice a week, no other meds and is doing quite well.

Good luck with Rosebud. It sounds like you are doing all the right things.

Lefties Rule
November 7th, 2010, 01:03 PM
Hi, and thanks so much for the posting! Yep, sounds like Blur and Rosebud have similar food preferences. Next thing I'm going to try is getting hold of some EVO 95% Chicken and Turkey (the one with the orangey-red label). One way or another, I WILL get this stuff.

Rosebud had a not-so-good day yesterday, but is doing better today. Yesterday, for most of the day she refused to eat canned, and would only eat a few nibbles of dry. I kept offering her water from a drinking glass, and she almost always took some, at least. She's recently taken a bit of Merrick's Grammy's Pot Pie, but I have to blend it as much as possible, because otherwise, she'll just lick off the juice. Even then, she still leaves dried up crumbly bits in the bowl. I just mix up bad and good stuff together in varying amounts, and keep hoping and trying. I have a few cans of Fancy Feast waiting in the wings just in case, and for Rosebud her favorite is salmon pate. If I let her go too long without SOMETHING in her stomach, she will vomit.

I plan on taking her in for a checkup sometime before Xmas, and at that time I'll ask for a urinaysis, on Growler's suggestion. Thanks again,
Lefty :goodvibes:

growler~GateKeeper
November 8th, 2010, 02:02 AM
There are a few things you can try to tempt Rosebud with, see if she likes the smell of parmesan cheese, you can add a teensy pinch to her food, also teensy bit of catnip, bit of melted butter, a couple of crushed dry krunchies sprinkled on her canned, cooked chicken bits, warming the food up a bit.

I know they're both farther away but have you checked with Barkside in Fernie or Chopper's in Invermere? They are on the 'where to buy page' on the Evo site, if they don't have this flavour in stock you can ask if they can order in for you.

Barkside
1201 6th Avenue PO Box 1761
Fernie, BC V0B 1M0
(250) 423-4332

Chopper's Pet Supplies
2-1014 8th Ave Box 2606
Invermere, BC V0A 1K0
(250) 342-PETS

Looks like Chopper's also carries Wellness & Eagle Pack so you could try a single can of Wellness Chicken, Eagle Pack Holistic Select Turkey & Barley, Duck & Chicken, Chicken & Lamb and some ot the others mentioned earlier.

Lefties Rule
November 8th, 2010, 10:01 AM
Thanks, Growler; I will keep these 2 places in mind. :lightbulb: Problem is, I don't have a car, so it makes getting good quality cat food more of a challenge, but I've always been up for a good challenge! First thing I'm doing is phone Pretty Pooch when they open, if I can get them before I leave for work, and see which Natura products they carry (many thanks for that tip!). I have other places here that I can also get to here and check out. In the meantime, I have ordered Merricks Before Grain 96% turkey and 96% beef, from "The Paw Shop" in town here; hasn't arrived yet.

Gotta go, thanks again for your great tips and support.
Lefty

Lefties Rule
January 18th, 2011, 10:35 AM
Hi, I wrote a couple of posts recently but I think I screwed up somehow, so I will briefly reiterate. Yesterday I had to put my little Rosebud down as she suffered a severe stroke that left her unable to walk. She was doing so amazingly well with her other issues, and was a happy old girl who would easily have lived an excellent quality of life for a long time to come. But I guess God wanted her sooner. THe vet told me he thought she had suffered a "something something' stroke, and something about the spinal cord or ligaments? I was trying hard to listen to what he said but was in shock, so didn't retain much.
Does anybody out there know what kind of stroke this was, or have any experience with feline stroke? THis was so sudden and completely out of the blue, and for no apparant reason. I miss my little friend so much.
Thanks, Rosebud's mom, Lefties Rule.:pray:

Winston
January 18th, 2011, 10:52 AM
Lefties Rule I am sorry for your loss. I have been following but not really commenting because its still so very fresh for me in loosing my boy! I just wanted to say I had my boy hospitalised for 10 days on IV trying to help his kidney function and try to save his life. He was doing really well pretty much the whole time he was in the vets care. On his last morning he ate his breakfast and about 1/2 hour after that he suffered a stroke...They told me the same thing something something stroke and as you were I was trying hard to understand but the grief was too great.

May you find peace knowing your little Rosebud is in a better place! free of pain and waiting to be reunited with you.

Again I am so sorry for your loss :candle: :rip: :cat:

rainbow
January 18th, 2011, 07:08 PM
Lefties Rule, I'm so sorry to hear about Rosebud. :grouphug: :candle:

I don't know what the name of the typer of stroke would be but I'm sure if you called the vet's office they would tell you. :)

14+kitties
January 18th, 2011, 09:07 PM
:candle::rip: Rosebud :candle:
Lefties - I am very sorry for your loss. I know how difficult it is. :grouphug:

If it helps at all I did a bit of research. These are the two types of strokes cats can most commonly suffer from -
An ischemic stroke, in which there is a lack of blood to the brain, and a hemorrhagic stroke, in which a blood vessel bursts inside the brain, causing bleeding.
This was taken from - http://www.ehow.com/how_6395445_care-cats-stroke.html

Please know you did everything you could and more for Rosebud. :grouphug:

Lefties Rule
January 19th, 2011, 10:58 AM
Thankyou so, so much for all your kind support; it is priceless to me at this time. To Winston, thankyou so much for your post, I feel I understand what you went through with your precious boy, Winston. I am truly moved by your courage and dedication to doing everything in the world possible to help him and give him every chance to feel better. This is what I did for my gentle little girl also.

I did phone the vet yesterday to get the name of the type of stroke she had. He thought it was a FIBROCARTILAGINOUS EMBOLISM. It can happen in cats and dogs, particularly in older kitties, apparantly. Mainly because I wasn't clear on exactly what went wrong, I was tortured with guilt and doubt about euthanizing her so quickly untill I did online research about this condition, and now I can allow myself to start believing that it was the right thing to do for her. She's free now.

Thankyou agin, friends, Lefty

Love4himies
January 19th, 2011, 11:07 AM
I am so sorry to hear about Rosebud :cry: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Making the decision to end your beloved pet's name is one of the hardest decisions to make and are almost always done with some guilt feelings. A person on this forum once said in a post that always better a day too early, than a day too late.

:rip: Rosebud :candle:

BenMax
January 19th, 2011, 11:38 AM
:grouphug:I am so sorry for your loss. I was watching this thread closely as I am currently waiting for my vet results for my DD cat.

My heart goes out to you.

RIP Rosebud.:rip:. Run carefree and rejuvenated.:candle:

growler~GateKeeper
January 30th, 2011, 01:02 AM
Lefties Rule :grouphug: I'm sorry for your loss of Rosebud she was a special little girl :angel2:

:rip: sweet :angel2: Rosebud :candle: She is playing at the Rainbow Bridge (http://www.indigo.org/rainbowbridge_ver2.html) with those who've gone before :candle: :grouphug:

I did phone the vet yesterday to get the name of the type of stroke she had. He thought it was a FIBROCARTILAGINOUS EMBOLISM. It can happen in cats and dogs, particularly in older kitties, apparantly.

I know about the doubt & guilt with this condition :grouphug:, know that you did what was best for her. I lost my last dog several years ago to the same :rip:

Lefties Rule
February 4th, 2011, 06:51 AM
Thankyou, Growler, for your kind thoughts. And thankyou from all of us who have been helped by your research, and guidance, and support.
Lefties Rule :pawprint: