October 9th, 2010, 11:26 PM
My kitten was just spayed on Thursday and she has had diarrhea quite a bit through yesterday and today. Even just now my poor baby girl is having diarrhea for the second time in the last 10 minutes. She was not this bad yesterday. She is taking a half of a pain pill once a day (started them yesterday). Is this normal? I thought it may be normal for a few days so I didn't panic and call the vet today. Now they are closed tomorrow and Monday (Holiday). I'm wondering if I should have called them today now I feel so bad and guilty:(
Any advise? Could this be from the operation or pain meds? Please anyone???
October 10th, 2010, 12:20 AM
It's a possibility that the pain medication is causing the diarrhea since it happened right after her spaying. How long is kitty to stay on the pain medication? Is kitty active, eating and drinking well? the important thing with diarrhea is to keep her well hydrated. If she's not drinking and becomes lethargic, call your vet immediately or take her to an emergency vet, as young kittens can go down fast. She should not be drinking any milk, as this often causes digestive upset. Some people have had good success with firming up stool by adding some pure canned pumpkin to the food, about 1/4 tsp. not pumpkin pie filling which has added sugar. Hope things work out for you and kitty. Let us know how it goes.
October 10th, 2010, 12:50 AM
Yes she has been eating quite well and drinking water through the day. I think it's the 20mg of Tolfedine (pain meds) she has been taking once a day - (1/2 pill). I grind it up into a powder and put it in her food. On Thursday early evening when I got her home after the spay she seemed fine. She ate a little and drank some water. Friday morning I gave her 1/2 a pill crushed up in her food and then by late afternoon she had some diarrhea and again in the evening - and boy does it stink so bad lol poor baby girl. She literally runs to her litter box to make sure she gets in it on time. Saturday early morning she had more diarrhea and at one point she had no control and I saw some on her bum and I cleaned it off - it was a yellowish colour. She was fine after that until after she ate (pill crushed up again in the food). By late afternoon she had the diarrhea again which she controlled this time and later in the evening she had it 2 more times within about 10 minutes of each other. She seems good now (it's 12:45am) she's sleeping. There are 2 pills left for her to take (she gets a half each morning) last one she takes will be on Monday. I guess I'll have to wait and see if the diarrhea goes away after that. I'm just not sure if it's the eating after surgery or pills that is causing this.
October 10th, 2010, 07:02 AM
I would stop the pain pills immediately. They are not necessary for the healing. How is her incision looking?
Not all cats can tolerate it and it can be hard on the kidneys and liver and this is a sign that she is not tolerating it well.
From this website:
Gastro-intestinal, renal and hepatic function should be monitored periodically in animals on a long-term therapy. Treated animals should be monitored for the occurrence of side effects. Adverse reactions considered typical of NSAIDs include gastro-intestinal ulceration, renal toxicity and hematological abnormalities. NSAIDs present a greater risk in animals under 6 weeks of age or in aged, debilitated or sick animals. Tolfedine should be used with caution in these cases; careful clinical monitoring is advised. In the event of gastro-intestinal signs (e.g. loss of appetite, vomiting, diarrhea or melena), or adverse drug reactions (e.g. lethargy, behavioral changes, abnormal bleeding), treatment should be discontinued.
October 10th, 2010, 10:10 AM
I would be taking the kitten to see a vet right away. Your kitten may be eating and drinking, but the amount of d'rea that it is having, your kitten will become dehyrdated very fast. And like catlover has stated, kittens do down fast.
October 10th, 2010, 11:01 AM
Arghhh - I just typed out this whole long message and by the time I was trying to upload it the system timed me out so I will keep this short.
I have discontinued giving my kitten her pain meds to see if this helps with the Diarrhea. She has been eating well and drinking quite a bit of water. I did look up the info on the meds like the one post showed but I think some of you are over reacting a little. She was only given 4 pills - she is to take a half a pill once a day for 4 days. The info that one poster showed is for longer term usuage of the pills which I can see may cause the kidney/renal problems or even failure. I don't believe my kitten is taking enough to cause that type of damage but I'm not a vet. I will monitor her today/tonight and see if her not taking the pill today makes a difference. My vet is closed on Sundays and since it's Thanksgiving on Monday they are closed then as well. If my kitten seems to be in any type of distress I would certainly not hesitate to take her to an emergency clinic.
Thank for you input - have a great day.
October 10th, 2010, 11:35 AM
I have discontinued giving my kitten her pain meds to see if this helps with the Diarrhea.
She has been eating well and drinking quite a bit of water. I did look up the info on the meds like the one post showed but I think some of you are over reacting a little. She was only given 4 pills - she is to take a half a pill once a day for 4 days.
You can NEVER predict how a person/cat/dog's liver or kidneys will react to any meds. My sister died from prescription meds that were considered safe for humans, she started to react to them immediately :frustrated:. Her doctor should have told her to discontinue them, but he told to carry on, it wasn't the meds causing her digestive issues. Any side effects from possible meds should be taken seriously, they could be doing permanent damage :frustrated:
The info that one poster showed is for longer term usuage of the pills which I can see may cause the kidney/renal problems or even failure. I don't believe my kitten is taking enough to cause that type of damage but I'm not a vet. I will monitor her today/tonight and see if her not taking the pill today makes a difference. My vet is closed on Sundays and since it's Thanksgiving on Monday they are closed then as well. If my kitten seems to be in any type of distress I would certainly not hesitate to take her to an emergency clinic.
Thank for you input - have a great day.
Diarrhea in a kitten who is also displaying thirst can be a sign of kidney/liver issues. Kittens dehydrate very, very quickly and can go downhill within hours. Once they start to show signs it means it is very serious as cats hide their pain very well.
October 10th, 2010, 02:55 PM
You should consult your vet first before stopping meds.
October 10th, 2010, 03:18 PM
There are times when the anesthesia used upsets a kitten's system. That is possibly, combined with the pill, the reason behind the kitty's upset.
Another member mentioned adding a small amount of pure pumpkin to the kitten's food. You could also give her a small amount of plain yogurt to help coat her stomach and restore her belly flora or give her a pinch of Asidopholous (a probiotic).
A kitten is so active and on the go it doesn't take much to upset their system. My youngest one spent part of yesterday throwing up because he ate his food way too fast. :rolleyes:
I'm sure within a few days kitty will be back to normal. Maybe up till she starts feeling more herself it would be a good idea to add a bit of water to her canned food to ensure she is getting more fluids and does not become dehydrated. :thumbs up It would also not be a bad idea to talk to your vet's office on Tues when they reopen.
October 10th, 2010, 06:49 PM
You should consult your vet first before stopping meds.
They are pain meds, so it is not like antibiotics or steriods that have to be finished to the end or be weaned off.
October 11th, 2010, 11:23 AM
Pain meds or not. The vet obvious gave the meds to take home, for a reason. The cat probably didn't take the surgery well, really painful for the cat, so he opted for the client to take meds home. Also, we do not know, if the meds are causing the d'rea. Are we really in the right notion, to tell someone to stop taking anything. no, I don't think so.
She really should be consulting her vet and figuring out why her kitten is having d'rea.
October 11th, 2010, 09:10 PM
Update on the Diarrhea....
I did not give my kitten her 1/2 pill yesterday to see if this would make a difference. She still had the diarrhea yesterday despite not taking the pill so I decided that I would give her the 1/2 pill this morning. She still has the diarrhea but it does not seem to be that yellowish strange colour it was the day after the surgery it was more brown in colour and it does not seem to be as much diarrhea as before but she is still getting it whenever she goes to the litter - I'm monitoring this. I did buy some cat food at Global Pet Food Store yesterday which is chicken & pumkin in a broth. I always buy good quality high moisture content kitty food from this pet store. The only weird thing I noticed yesterday and today is her eyes - at times they seem cloudy looking and her pupils seem very large to me which is unusual. There was a time this afternoon (maybe from taking that 1/2 pill I'm not sure) that her eyes looked normal - clear and normal pupil but this evening they look a bit odd again. I am going to give her the last 1/2 pill tomorrow morning and I will call the vet first thing. As 12+ mentioned on there post, she is a very active playful kitten (like most) and she jumps up on everything and runs around. I think all stuff they gave her before/after her spaying is what is trying to come out of her now. I'm looking at the receipt for the spaying and they gave her 2 Tolfedine 20mg pills, 1 Metacam injection and 1 IV Fluids during Anesthetic and she was checked over (examined). She is healing well I am keeping my eye on her belly area where they stiched her up. The vet that spayed her is very reputable and well known in the Toronto area - a few people I know take their dogs/cats to him. Thanks to everyone's help and comments it's great to find a community that's so helpful.
October 11th, 2010, 09:41 PM
Metacam alone often makes cats very ill and has a black box warning now that Metacam can cause acute renal failure in cats.
I'm not a vet or anything, but I 100% agree that you need to stop using the pain meds. Would you rather your cat be sore for a few days or dead? You can keep giving her the pain meds which are probably doing absolutely nothing for her anyways because it was a spay surgery, not some sort of crazy horrible surgery... the only thing the combination of Metacam and post op NSAIDS is going to do is probably kill your cat at this point.
I'm a surgery tech and I basically refuse to give Metacam to any animals at this point because I've seen too many bad things happen from it and to be honest it does NOTHING to help the animals. Sorry, long rant, but it's a waste of money and puts animals at risk, especially kitties.
Does it say what anesthesia was used? Probably not related but I am curious as I am not familiar with the pain pills they sent you home on.
And just for the record it can take several days for the diarrhea to resolve after stopping the pain pills. The amount of time you gave for the problem to resolve was not enough.
Sorry, I'm kind of bitter about how it seems like vets really go overboard with pain meds now a days when at where I work the dogs are up and playing and happily bouncing about within 2-3 hours after their surgery. It's not some horribly blood surgery that requires weeks of pain meds like some places make it seem :shrug: unless there is some sort of special reason for it, and the vet should have made that clear at the time you picked her up. And usually the meds they go home on make them feel worse than when they left. I mean even my cat who had open heart surgery I didn't give him more than 1 day of pain meds because they made him feel like crap and as soon as it wore off he was a happy little man again.
I would still give your vet a call first thing, but if you were a client that called where I worked, this is what I would tell you to do until the veterinarian who did the surgery was contacted. It's all up to you though.
October 11th, 2010, 09:52 PM
I thought the Metacam injection was the anesthetic? Kathryn your post and a few others is really worrying me now. My kitty seems fine, she's running around, playing with her toys, and does not seem to be in any distress from what I can tell. Why would a good real known vet give her something that would be harmful to an animal? The vet hospital I took her to get spayed is **************** - they are very well respected which is why I payed a lot more money to have her spay done there. I could have had it done much cheaper but opted to go to someone who was not only recommended by 2 people I know but also has excellent reviews on websites. Why do so many people responding think she may die? Come on now this is just making me feel really scared now.
October 11th, 2010, 10:29 PM
How old is your kitten AM?
Metacam is actually a pain med. Not an anesthetic. The other medication I have not heard of although I did just do a check. Here is a site with info about it...
http://www.drugs.com/vet/tolfedine-6-mg-tablets-can.html There is one line in it that I find a little concerning but you can judge for yourself and speak to your vet.
There are conflicting views as to whether or not cats need/should have pain meds after spay surgery. Personally I have had over 60 cats s/n in the last two and a half years and none have had pain meds. Part of that is because I work through a low cost s/n rescue which does not supply pain meds as part of their service. Part of that is their belief that cats actually do better without pain meds because the ensuing pain from the spay reminds them they should not be as active as they normally would be. With pain meds they would not feel the pain and would continue to play vigorously. You are/should be trying to keep kitty as quiet as possible after any surgery to help aid healing. I know that is very difficult with cats. :rolleyes:
I am going to PM Dr Lee for you. He is our volunteer vet. Maybe he will answer before you get a chance to talk to your vet. Hopefully he can help set your mind at ease.
My biggest concern with your kitty is the diarrhea. Even if there is a lot of broth in her food it is still ok to add extra water for dehydration. Diarrhea in a cat can be life threatening. Notice I said can be. It does not necessarily mean it will be. Sounds like your girl is doing ok at this point. Let's wait to see what Dr Lee and/or your vet say.
October 11th, 2010, 10:47 PM
I'm sorry, I'm not at all trying to scare you. You are just NEVER supposed to give NSAIDS to an animal that is having any sort of GI symptoms, especially with cats because it can kill them in a matter of a day or two. I mean you really need to follow up with your vet, but I just know from experience that post-op pain meds that are sent home with patients often cause more harm than good :shrug: This applies for spays and neuters.. for other types of surgeries it's a different story I don't need to get into right now.
I mean, could you imagine being sick to your stomach and going and taking a big ol' ibuprofen? You'd probably feel like crap too!
Metacam is not a sedative, it is an NSAID that the use of in cats is highly controversial and that is why the oral version (which your kitty is not taking luckily) has a new black box warning on it strictly prohibiting it for use in cats.
Let's put it this way-
The one vet I usually work with keeps pain meds to a minimum and instead relies on minimally invasive procedures and does the surgeries as quickly as safely possible. These animals do AMAZING and are happy and healthy, usually feeling like nothing happened at the end of the day and by the next day they don't remember a thing.
Another vet I used to work with insisted on loading animals up with (incorrect) doses of pain meds for an extreme amount of time. This vet's surgeries were more invasive and lasted longer. These animals awoke SCREAMING in pain, often to the point I was sooo uncomfortable I had to leave the room. They would scream and scream and he would just assure us that the pain meds were "doing their job". These animals would often get quite sickly with GI problems. We've had atleast 1 that died of Acute Renal Failure 2 weeks after being spayed and receiving 4 days of Metacam.
Now if you had a choice, would you prefer to have a minimally invasive procedure that made you a bit uncomfortable for a few hours with no pain meds, or be cut up and sent home on pain meds that made you wanna barf your brains out?
I'm sure the hospital you went to would not purposely try and do something to harm your kitty! I am just speaking in general out of experience. I am just saying that kittens can easily die from diarrhea and in your post-op instructions you should have been given instructions to discontinue medications if diarrhea or vomiting occurs and probably even an emergency phone line to be able to call. I know for all of our meds, NSAIDS or not, this is one of the main warning we tell people. And for the shelter we have a 24 hour emergency cell phone line so that we can be reached all the times for situations like yours :shrug: Things are done differently in other places though, so while this is routine where I am I cannot speak for everyone where you are.
The cloudiness of her eyes has me worried as well. They may not have applied eye lubricant during her surgery which is not good. Cat's don't usually close their eyes during surgery depending on the anesthesia used, so we put in artificial tears to keep their eyes moist. It's even on the anesthesia instructions to do so as damage to the eye can occur if you don't. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's a possibility, so that is something I would have checked out as well. The pupil dilation things you are describing do not sound normal this many days post op. Usually by 5-10 hours post surgery the pupils should be returned to normal. I know that if I saw a cat the day after surgery and it's eyes were still dilated or looked funny I would be bringing that cat to see the vet ASAP.
October 11th, 2010, 10:51 PM
There are conflicting views as to whether or not cats need/should have pain meds after spay surgery. Personally I have had over 60 cats s/n in the last two and a half years and none have had pain meds. Part of that is because I work through a low cost s/n rescue which does not supply pain meds as part of their service. Part of that is their belief that cats actually do better without pain meds because the ensuing pain from the spay reminds them they should not be as active as they normally would be. With pain meds they would not feel the pain and would continue to play vigorously.
^ This is 100% accurate, coming from someone who has teched on 10,000+ cat spays and neuters, you are totally correct. I have seen way too many animals get sick from the post-op pain meds that I would never even give my cats anything after a surgery other than maybe Tramadol. I used a 1 time Metacam shot with my kitty when she was getting her leg amputated, prior to the new warning labels, and at the correct dosage it made her comfortable and did not hurt her, but afterwards she was better off just working herself through the discomfort than being all drugged up and flopping all over the place and possible hurting herself.
October 11th, 2010, 10:52 PM
Thank you so much for your reply I appreciate it. My kitty is just 5 and 1/2 months old. The receipt does not show how many mgs the dosage was but I've now done a bit of research on Medacam and in Canada the dosage should not exceed 0.2mgs. I can't imagine a cat having reactions to the Medacam after this long - her spay was on Thursday and from what I've read, this would have been injected before the operation but I don't know for sure if she could still have a reaction. Also, she was given IV fluids which I've read is good when givin the Medacam. After reading up on all this and seeing the "cautions" with this type of drug, I do wonder now why my vet would not have given her something else - I am angry now. Too bad I did not ask beforehand what they were going to give her. I just trusted that they would use the safest drugs. As I mentioned before, they are from what I hear a really good vet hospital. I am going to have to find out if even with the 1 dosage of the Medacam if there could be any liver/kidney damage later on. I'm worried now:( I tried so hard researching vet hospitals, talking with people I knew, looking up reviews on vet's etc...before I decided where to have her spay done. I even cancelled a spay at another vet hosptial because I didn't feel it was good enough for my kitty. I stressed over the spay for weeks - my friends all thought I was nuts because they all said it's such a routine procedure but I was still scared to death - it's still major surgery as far as I'm concerned and she's my baby girl. If you can find anything else out from Dr. Lee, I would be really grateful as I probably won't be able to hear from the vet until later tomorrow.
October 11th, 2010, 10:58 PM
Dr Lee will answer in this thread when he gets the message. You can "talk" directly to him.
5.5 months is a sweet age. So full of mischief. I have 6 that just turned 6 months today. :D They will be going in to get fixed as soon as I can get a Sunday off and schedule their s/n. Then they go up for adoption. They are a very busy bunch.
Hang in there. I know how we worry about our babies. :grouphug:
October 13th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Just an update on my kitten...She's doing great no more diarrhea and her eyes look fine. The vet called me and said she was most likely having diarrhea due to all the stress she's been through.
Thanks everyone for all your help and advise.
October 13th, 2010, 10:44 PM
:thumbs up Wonderful news!!! I am so sorry Dr Lee didn't get to you. He must be very very busy. But so good to hear kitty is doing well. Her incision must be almost healed now and she will be back to her silliness. :cloud9: So now it's pic time please.
October 17th, 2010, 12:55 PM
Kitty is not out of the woods yet as her diarrhea has returned and she has been vomiting now after she eats. She was fine from last Tuesday up until Thursday evening - no vomiting and solid poops. Then on Friday morning when I fed her (fish style food) she gobbled it down really quickly and then 10 minutes later threw it up - this is the first time she's done this. I gave her some other food (pate kind) just a little because I felt bad she had thrown up the other food I gave her and she did not throw it up. Then in the early evening she threw up her food again and also on Saturday and today. She's been drinking a lot of water as I've been checking this constantly.
I noticed that since the spay she has quite the appetite now and eats her food really fast - all in one sitting which she never did before as she would usually save a little bit for later. I wonder if this is causing the vomiting - she gobbles her food down and then 10 minutes later she's throwing it up. The diarrhea started on Saturday morning and has lasted through the weekend.
I spoke to the vet last Monday after noticing the diarrhea after her spay (all last weekend) but he told me that it would not be caused by the medications she received during the spay and most likely was caused by stress after being spayed. He did say that if I wanted to bring her in to have her looked at he would be happy to check her out but he said it would be good to bring in a poo sample to have checked. I am taking her in tomorrow but I don't know how the heck I'm going to get a poo sample when she has diarrhea?
She is not showing any signs of being in any distress from what I can tell. She's been playing all weekend and being her rambunctious self (she's a kitten after all lol) but it's now a real concern for me. I wonder if anyone else has had this problem after there kitten/cat was spayed.
October 17th, 2010, 04:23 PM
Bringing in a poop sample is probably a good idea. Some medications you should ask about are Albon and Metronidazole.
What brand of food are you feeding? At this point it's a good chance that the stress of the spay and the medications just really messed up her stomach, but if you are feeding store brand foods they are not going to help. That would be like if you were really sick with a stomach flu then decided to continuously eat fast food, you'd probably feel really yucky too.
Depending on what you are feeding, you may need to try a different food that will be easier on the stomach. There are some holistic pro-biotics that might be able to help, as well as adding some pumpkin to the diet. But if your kitty has something like giardia or coccidia then it's possible the surgery threw that into full effect and that's what is making her sick.
October 17th, 2010, 10:47 PM
I've noticed that when cats eat their meal too fast, sometimes they do throw up afterwards. You can slow down her earting by smearing it on a plate so that she has to lick it off. This should prevent her from gobbling it down and swallowing air in the process. Hope this helps.