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Leo hates his kennel, but doesn't...?

cell
September 17th, 2010, 08:48 PM
SO we got Leo because someone bought him from a petstore and discovered that he barked when left alone in the kennel when they went out which caused complaints from the neighbours. Well that was the story at the SPCA when we got him.

So he has spend most of his life in a cage.

I tried to do everything right with him re: kenneling but he doesn't seem to be having it. I give him a kong/special bone etc when he is put in and come home to have him haul it out and play with it as if I just gave it to. When we record him he can bark/scream for a good hour or so. He does eventually settle down but He spends most of his time in general anxiety when in there (panting/drooling/barking/whining etc)

He goes right in the kennel on his own at night and lays down.



We tried leaving him in the kitchen with the video cam on him and he was ok, no real barking that I noticed, but he did jump up and down which leaves me to worry about his back, so he went back in the kennel.

Left him alone once for 20 min and came home to find some chunks out of the caribou rug on our wall, so he went back in the kennel.

Then we started leaving him alone for short periods in the house, came home to find him waiting paitently at the door, nothing eaten or peed on, though there was a piece of carpet glued to the door he ripped off.

Then I left him a hour with the camera on him, he spent maybe 10 min barking (total) (the audo didn't pick up) we also live in a basement with a all glass front door that he was looking out of (and can see a clear view of the sidewalk/road, he only sees people zip by since its a view up rather then getting to see people comming right down the street and walking by) So it is possible (an it appears like) he is getting excited by people going by then barking as a alert. He wasn't pacing/panting, and would sit quietly looking out the window and sometimes getting excited (tail wagging/ jumping up at the window/barking) which I assume is due to something going by.

Is it possible some dogs just hate the kennel when alone? and are fine when left loose? Does he just want to be a good watchdog and guard the house? Someone I know said their dog would loose its mind when left in the kennel so he left it loose and he's fine.
I would like him to like the kennel, but the thing is that he does? he just doesn't like being left alone in it. If we find he is comfortable (non destructive) being left loose should we just accept it at that?

(ps; we live in a apartment with carpet which is the main reason for the kennel, Leo has been clean in the house for months now)

Update: today I had my BF leave him in the house when he left and I got home 3 hrs later, everything was in order, he didn't pee (because he had a huge pee outside) We left him with a frozen kong filled with tripe that was fully empty (and must have taken a while to clean out). I peeked in the front before I came in and he popped his head out of the bedroom where his bed is. So it APPEARS he had a ok enough time, I will confirm this tomorrow when I leave him with a camera on him.

:2cents: and experience on the subject are appreciated.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5000219394_b859d5d723_b.jpg

Also you can watch him come first in the first heat of the 3rd annual wiener dog races in Montreal (he came fourth in the final because he stalled at the line)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znz1lMxfMbk

Or if you just want to comment on how cute Leo is, that is also acceptable :)

Frenchy
September 18th, 2010, 08:55 AM
Update: today I had my BF leave him in the house when he left and I got home 3 hrs later, everything was in order, he didn't pee (because he had a huge pee outside) We left him with a frozen kong filled with tripe that was fully empty (and must have taken a while to clean out). I peeked in the front before I came in and he popped his head out of the bedroom where his bed is. So it APPEARS he had a ok enough time, I will confirm this tomorrow when I leave him with a camera on him.

:2cents: and experience on the subject are appreciated.

so he's making progress without the crate , you did everything right , making sure he does his business before leaving , giving him a frozen Kong to keep him busy , that worked out , I would continue what you're doing , and forget about the crate :thumbs up

Or if you just want to comment on how cute Leo is, that is also acceptable :)

:laughing: Leo is a doll ! :lovestruck:

back in the "good old days" , we didn't use crate training , and it was working out just fine. So IMO , if a dog is clean in the house , and non destructive , I don't see why people would keep on using the crate. :shrug: or course , leaving his crate there , with the door open if he likes to sleep in it is totally acceptable ! :dog:

Sylvie
September 18th, 2010, 09:08 AM
I remember the good old days of keeping the dog in the kitchen with a cardboard box and newspapers.

After destroying a beautiful wooden table and chairs, counter surfing etc etc I am so glad of the crate. That being said some dogs don't do well in a crate, I agree with Frenchy if the dog is not creating any problems why put him in a crate?

Also he is a doll :lovestruck:

Good luck sounds like you are on the right track

Rgeurts
September 18th, 2010, 09:10 AM
cell... Leo is beautiful! :lovestruck::flirt:
I bought my mom 2 mini weenies many, many yrs ago. They were her best friends and were with her until she passed. They were such funny little things.


As for leaving them uncrated... we have never had Thorin in a crate. He's a wonderful house dog. Nanook on the other hand, is a terror. He's learning, but it's slow going. We have the same problem with the crate for Nanook that you have with Leo. He will scream and scream until he bloats himself up and completely stresses himself out. We have tried everything we can think of (kong etc), but he just doesn't like being in the crate. Because of that, we have to take him to daycare. He isn't the kind of dog we will be able to leave alone in the house, at least not until he's much older :rolleyes:

cell
September 18th, 2010, 09:38 AM
Thanks for the inputs, we will remain on this track for now, I will go out for about 3 hours today and try to record him and see what he gets up to. I am only really worried about destruction, soiling and constant anxious barking.

When we had started at first trying to leave him out little bits he started to catch on when we were leaving and would try and follow us out thr door or would sit in the porch and not want us to make him go back in the house, so we will have to stay consistent with leaving means treats until he gets use to the idea.

For now we will stick on the track of making good things happen when we leave (frozen kongs with wet dog food) typically we are not away longer then 3 hours at this point so he can obviously hold himself that long, until I graduate next year when I should be hopefully getting a normal job, and hopefully be in a better apartment (with no carpet).

Mirela
September 18th, 2010, 01:36 PM
[....

Then I left him a hour with the camera on him, he spent maybe 10 min barking (total) (the audo didn't pick up) we also live in a basement with a all glass front door that he was looking out of (and can see a clear view of the sidewalk/road, he only sees people zip by since its a view up rather then getting to see people comming right down the street and walking by) So it is possible (an it appears like) he is getting excited by people going by then barking as a alert. He wasn't pacing/panting, and would sit quietly looking out the window and sometimes getting excited (tail wagging/ jumping up at the window/barking) which I assume is due to something going by.



Would it be possible to cover the window from the outside (perhaps a matte cling film) so he'll have fewer reasons to get agitated / bark?

cell
September 18th, 2010, 06:40 PM
SO we left him alone for 4 hours today loose in the house with the camera on him, window covered, he whined/barked/panted/jumpped/ran around for about 2 hours then gave up and sat infront of the door for 2 hours. So it doesn't actually appear he is any better when left loose, so back in the kennel, he can freak out in there but at least he can't jump. Maybe in another year or so we can try this again.

Mirela
September 18th, 2010, 10:49 PM
Hmmm...so covering the window made him even more agitated. I guess my ideea didn't work and he is actually better being able to see outside.

Do you tire him out before leaving him alone in the house? A good walk and some playtime combined with rehearsing whatever commands he knows should tire him both physically and mentally and lead him to settle down easier.

cell
September 19th, 2010, 11:15 AM
I try and get him out for a good walk every day, but of course some days it doesn't happen. He is decieving because he is so calm in the house but I think he is hiding his energy level. Since he came from the petstore originally he doesn't come and ask us to play with him, and often doens't play by himself eaither. A walk doesn't seem to actually tire him out, even if its a hour long. He needs a good hard run and play and usually even when we go to the dog park it doesn't happen because there are just too many dogs or none that will play with him, or another dogs that ruins his play when he does find someone to play.
We can give him things to chew on in the house that he would gladly play with for hours but in the kennel when he leave he won't touch it.

We are going to try some desensitisation training, but going through all the motions like we would be leaving but then just comming right back in the house. The only probelm will be getting my BF to participate on his own time (when I am not home)...

We kennel him in the bedroom and we also spend most of our time in the bedroom, he doesn't really mind beging away from us but he KNOWS when we leave and when we ware still in the house or just outside, he can tell the difference. Maybe it's al the triggers to us leaving that works him up so we will try the desensitisation, and I also think I will get Rescue Remedy (which I can use too when I get stressed )

cell
September 22nd, 2010, 05:14 PM
SO we have been trying desensitization training and I have been ignoring him except when I have to feed him and walk him, and he is getting worst. He will go voluntarily in the kennel but still gets upset when left and is getting more anxious will all other respects, on walks etc.If I pay him more attention he gets more attached to me, if I ignore him he gets stressed thinking it is punishment.
We have never used the kennel as punishment but he associates it as a punishment if he is there during the day. Advice?

Winston
September 22nd, 2010, 05:24 PM
Cell not sure if this will help but it did with Winston when he was a baby...I used to get a big comforter and cover the crate and it was like his own private spot...He really seemed to be more comfortable with it like that....Good luck...

Jumajum
September 23rd, 2010, 05:14 PM
What a gorgeous dog:lovestruck::flirt:

Would a fenced in dog proof area in the kitchen/living room work better than a crate? What is your purpose for kenneling him? It sounds you're looking for a way to contain your dog in a safe manner while you're out of the house. If that's the case, then fencing in an area for Leo that he can hang out in while you're gone for a few hours might work better than a crate.

It sounds like he's had some trauma and negative experience with confining cages and being left alone for long periods.

Work on desensitizing him to you leaving. You don't want him to feel stressed and anxious and worrying about you never coming back.

cell
September 23rd, 2010, 09:03 PM
He has never been confined longer then 6 hours in the crate, and that's MAX and only happened a few times. But that being said he was from a pet store before we got him at the SPCA, who knows if he was alone there or confined with another puppy.

The reason he was crated was first for housebreaking when we got him at 9 months. I had hoped it would help for his SA but it doesn't. I crate him now because he will stand against the barrier and bounce on his back legs which could break his back.
At this point I don't know if we should scrap the kennel and try desensitising him to being loose in house or just leave him in the kennel so we don't come home to a paralysed dog.
The kitchen here is a bad place in the house, it is way in the back, we don't spend a lot of time there and it gets real cold in winter. I was thinking maybe to leave a barrier across the hall to keep him from going into the living room which has the front door in it (we live in a basement of a Montreal style duplex so its a long building with a hall that runs the whole length with LR and door at the front and kitchen in the back) but I figure he will sit at the gate and pine, then start jumping up and down again.

The issue then becomes what do we do when we DO have to leave? I had someone offer to babysit him during the day who is a dachshund owner and lover. But I met this person at the dog park a few times and that's it. So I don't know about the situation yet, and they have a cat, and Leo tried to eat my friends cat, but wants to play with them on walks, unless they try and run then he goes into hunter mode.

We kennel him at night as well but I am thinking tonight we will test run leaving his door open so he can come and go. Maybe that will help, or hurt, I dunno.

Mirela
September 24th, 2010, 08:27 AM
You know your dog best, so trust your instincts on this one - if you feel that he's happier being free in the house then perhaps that's the best solution.

His jumping up and down seems to be your only concern, I recall you have mentioned that he's reliably house trained and not an excessive chewer? Is there something specific about his back that makes you worry? Was there trauma before you got him? I think a thorough vet exam might answer some of your worries and provide some sound advice about the risks involved.

If there's no physical danger to him then...cross everything, puppy proof his area and leave him free in the house. :).

Good luck and let us know how it goes.:thumbs up

ETA - He is adorable!

cell
September 24th, 2010, 09:02 AM
The danger is breed specific, Dachshunds have long backs and short legs, being dwarves causes early disc drying and calcification which makes them prone to rupture under torsion or trauma. Even human dwarves have early disc drying/calcification and are prone to spinal and joint issues, it's the nature of the genes.
Some also are genetically predisposed to disc disease IVDD which can cause random disc prolapse at young age, but this is genetic lottery.
The breed are suppose to be limited on jumping and going down stairs (up is not as hard on them) and jumping down off heights. This is why the bouncing bothers me, it's hard on the back and he could trip or fall funny and pop a disc out, that's a 10,000 surgery I wan to avoid.

I left him loose last night in the house and he pooped on the bathroom rug, he hasn't done this in months but I think it was due to having a stomach upset because of something new i fed him yesterday and the fact that he didn't poop on his evening walk. He went to the toilet immediately when I took him out which he usually doesn't do if he is feeling well. So we will see how tonight goes when he has normal food and poops before bed.
At least the surprise was right next to the toilet and the rug needed a washing anyway....:rolleyes:

Mirela
September 24th, 2010, 12:02 PM
Oh, I had no idea that there is a breed-specific concern. :o. (Learning something new everyday).

As a joke - Could you take him with you - he's tiny...

cell
September 24th, 2010, 07:04 PM
He's actually almost 14 pounds, which is still small but he gets heavy to hold for too long, and he's awkward to hold too haha I know a lot of people make recommendation to try and find ways not to leave the dog alone but it doesn't solve the problem it's just avoiding it.
My BF said he had tried to do some positive reinforcement training today and it went well, I think they both had fun, and hopefully he keeps it up. I have also been doing some reinforcement training so we will take this as a slow work in progress and hopefully it helps.

I didn't mention the morning gift to him, but if it becomes habit I suppose I will have to... :rolleyes:

cell
September 26th, 2010, 10:19 AM
So Leo was clean night #2 but he also didn't poop at all until before his dinner since he had the stomach upset the day before.

This morning I again found a poop, this time on the kitchen floor. Whether he has been peeing as well I don't know I can't find any spots but it doesn't mean they don't exist. We had him out for a walk at 12 and he had a poop then but still soiled the house. Any suggestions? How long should I wait and have house soiling continue before I just kennel him again?

Mirela
September 26th, 2010, 11:43 AM
IMO you should kennel him if he is pooping in the house when he shouldn't; I mean if he was walked and had/has no tummy troubles. If you let him out in the open and he does it again and you are not there to correct him right away it might reinforce in his mind that it's OK to do that - not what you want.

The pee part is a bit more complicated - if the spot dried before you have had a chance to clean up properly the smell will still be there - again, a sign for him that it's OK to do it again.

You might want to give the carpet a really good cleaning and use something like "Natyre's Miracle" to ensure the smell is gone.

cell
September 26th, 2010, 11:59 AM
The carpet here is really hideous and cheap carpet, I don't know where the landlord got it but its nasty on its own and doesn't clean well, has mold from leaking etc. So there are cleaned spots on the carpet that end up looking dirtier then the rest of the carpet or are cleaner then the rest of the carpet so it leaves a spot that way too.
We have been considering getting a rental carpet scrubber.
I usually clean the carpet with a dilute bleach solution, there is no padding behind the carpet, its just glued on.
I am thinking I will give him a few more chances and if it doesn't work he goes back in the kennel at night. :wall:

Mirela
September 26th, 2010, 07:20 PM
I really wasn't worried about the carpet when I said that you need to clean it really well :D - the purpose was to not get Leo to think that it's OK to go in the house.;)

I'm not sure if bleach removes the pee smell or just masks it for a human's nose but not for a dog's one. An enzime cleaner works for both. It's good that there's no padding though - for the pee to soak trrough.

cell
September 26th, 2010, 09:51 PM
As far as I know because bleach is a powerful base it should deactivate the enzymes in animal urine and feces and reduce the re occurrence of soiling, it is also a antibacterial because of these reasons, but you can also bleach out your carpet if you use too strong a mixture.
His digestion still seems a bit wonky so we will kennel him until it evens back out before leaving him loose again, I don't want to set him up to fail.
Last night when I was sleeping I got a wiff of poop and so I got up and stuck my head out the door and didn't smell it in the hall, I think he pooped and then tried to eat most of it to hide the evidence and I smelled it on his breath when he came back to the room. Dogs can be so unsavory..