Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Puddles

Love4himies
September 11th, 2010, 12:44 PM
Puddles just got back from the vet, he suspects she is in early stages of renal failure :cry:. Her creatinine is up quite a bit from last time (9 months ago), and as is the bun reading. The cre is just over the high range and her bun is now in high normal. Previous blood work over the years has been consistently mid-high normal range.

The only good thing was her blood calcium has finally dropped into normal range. It has been slowly dropping since I changed her diet a few years ago.

She has go back next week to get her urine checked :(.

We knew this was coming due to her kidney damage when she got into the paint thinner, but it still comes as a shock :(.

Winston
September 11th, 2010, 12:49 PM
Awe L4H I am so sorry to hear this...I can so relate to how you are feeling right now. Be strong and positive! What is your vet recommending at this point?

I didnt know puddles got into paint thinner! OMG that must have been horrible.

:grouphug::grouphug: mf

Cindy

hazelrunpack
September 11th, 2010, 12:50 PM
:grouphug:

I'm praying for the best for Puddles! :goodvibes: Maybe with a little early intervention you can get the numbers turned around :fingerscr Does she seem to be feeling okay?

diandpat
September 11th, 2010, 12:53 PM
So so sorry to read this L4H...hopefully she is not suffering too much :fingerscr



I didnt know puddles got into paint thinner! OMG that must have been horrible.




Don't remember reading about this either...how awful.

Hope there are some measures you can follow to keep her comfy and viable for longer :goodvibes:

:grouphug:

rainbow
September 11th, 2010, 01:56 PM
L4H, I'm so sorry to hear about Puddles. :(

I'm another one who doesn't remember about her getting into the paint thinner. :grouphug: Sending lots of prayers and good wishes your way. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

breeze
September 11th, 2010, 02:53 PM
sorry about puddles L4H :grouphug:
hoping that since it's early stages maybe it can be turned around :fingerscr:fingerscr

:goodvibes::goodvibes:

mastifflover
September 11th, 2010, 07:33 PM
Oh I am so sorry but hopefully you caught it early and can turn it around

luckypenny
September 11th, 2010, 08:00 PM
L4H, how long ago did you switch to raw for your kitties? Is your vet aware of it? Not sure where I read it, but for sure something written by Dr. Jean Dodds, that creatinine levels in raw fed cats and dogs are higher than non-raw fed ones. I'll try to find the article for you.

luckypenny
September 11th, 2010, 08:18 PM
This study was done using dogs but, I imagine results would be similar for cats. Not only creatinine levels, but BUN and hematrocrit levels are also higher in those that are raw fed.

Preliminary statistical comparisons of
results for the raw and cereal-based diets found them to be essentially the same with the
following notable exceptions:
• Higher packed cell volume (hematocrit) in all raw diet fed groups (range of 51.0 ± 6.6 – 53.5 ±
5.6 %) versus cereal-based kibble (47.6 ± 6.1 %).
• Higher blood urea nitrogen (BUN) in all raw diet fed groups (range of 18.8 ± 6.9 – 22.0 ± 8.7
mg/dL) versus cereal-based kibble (15.5 ± 4.7 mg/dL).
• Higher serum creatinine in the Volhard raw diet group only (1.20 ± 0.34 mg/dL) versus cerealbased
kibble (1.07 ± 0.28 mg/dL).

While a more detailed analysis of other parameters has yet to be completed, initial results indicate
that dogs fed raw meats (natural carnivores) have higher red blood cell and blood urea nitrogen
levels than dogs fed cereal-based food (obligate omnivores). Thus, the normal reference values for
dogs fed raw food diets should probably be revised.

http://www.homevet.com/petcare/documents/immunenutrition.pdf

I hope this provides some explanations for you and that Puddles isn't really experiencing early stage renal failure :fingerscr :pray:.

Love4himies
September 11th, 2010, 08:23 PM
I am just sick about this :cry:. This has been a horrible year for cats, Duffy, Bomber, Rocky, Crunchie, beautiful Brownie :cry:

Puddles has been on raw for a couple of years, her cre and bun values have been so consistent at about 146-152 over the last 5 years and this time they have spiked to 192 as well as her bun (I can't remember that number, I was numbed when I saw the cre). That is why my vet is thinking early renal failure.

She got into paint thinner when she was only a year old. She spent 3 nights at the vets barely surviving and her vet at that time estimated 40-50% permanent kidney damage. A contractor, who was building a house beside us left a rolling pan with paint thinner in it outside. Of course Puddles jumped in it then licked her paws.

luckypenny
September 11th, 2010, 08:37 PM
Where to from here, L4H? Is there anything that can be done to help her if it is indeed early stage renal failure?

krdahmer
September 11th, 2010, 08:53 PM
So sorry to hear Puddles numbers are up...:goodvibes: that it was a fluke reading or something:pray:. And I agree, we've had too many losses here on the board this year....pets all of us have grown to love, even if never meeting. Hang in there! :grouphug:

Love4himies
September 11th, 2010, 10:31 PM
This study was done using dogs but, I imagine results would be similar for cats. Not only creatinine levels, but BUN and hematrocrit levels are also higher in those that are raw fed.



http://www.homevet.com/petcare/documents/immunenutrition.pdf

I hope this provides some explanations for you and that Puddles isn't really experiencing early stage renal failure :fingerscr :pray:.

OMG, I could only pray :pray:. My vet knows she is on a raw/quality canned. He really wants to find out how well her kidneys are working hence the urinalysis next week.

He wants his nutrition specialist to do an analysis on her food, but all I could think of was Growler and SCM, who I trust so much more. He is knowledgeable enough to know that quality protein and only a canned diet for cats :thumbs up. He doesn't agree with my homemade diet though :frustrated:.

Rgeurts
September 11th, 2010, 10:52 PM
I'm so sorry to see this. I truly hope it is due to the raw diet and nothing more. Sending lotsa :goodvibes: and :pray: your way. :grouphug::grouphug:

Love4himies
September 12th, 2010, 07:14 AM
Thank you everybody for your well wishes.

I didn't sleep last night, all I could think of was Puddles. I guess the urinalysis will tell us how well her kidneys are still functioning. Getting urine out of her is such a chore as she is NOT cooperative.

14+kitties
September 12th, 2010, 08:21 AM
Sending lots and lots of :goodvibes::fingerscr and :pray:ers your way. I hope the levels are more from the raw diet than renal failure.
Have you tried Puddles with Nosorb to see if she will use it to pee in? That's what I've used for a couple of mine. But if they are stubborn it takes a while. Your vet would have it.
:grouphug: I am thinking of you and Puddles.

Love4himies
September 12th, 2010, 08:41 AM
Sending lots and lots of :goodvibes::fingerscr and :pray:ers your way. I hope the levels are more from the raw diet than renal failure.
Have you tried Puddles with Nosorb to see if she will use it to pee in? That's what I've used for a couple of mine. But if they are stubborn it takes a while. Your vet would have it.
:grouphug: I am thinking of you and Puddles.

Yes, I have tried no-sorb, it took about 14 hours to get her to pee and only then because I gave up and followed her around the house until she went to her normal litter box and had to pick her up mid stream and put her in the litter box with the no sorb. I think what I am going to do is scoop her up in a carrier and take her immediately to the vet as soon as I get home from work. She normally goes outside to do her pees as soon as we get home.

I really don't think it is the raw diet, there have been signs. She is loosing muscle mass (half of pound), she is not nearly as active. I was hoping it was the heat :(. I've had that gut feeling something is not right, but in denial and looking for excuses.

She has conjunctivitus in her left eye (original reason for the vet visit), poor girl :(

cpietra16
September 12th, 2010, 08:58 AM
L4H...I just got on and read your thread.I'm so sorry. As far as Puddles activities, it can very well be the weather. My cats seem to be docile around the house. :grouphug: Puddles. Thinking of you.

chico2
September 12th, 2010, 10:19 AM
Oh no L4H,it's been a very difficult year here on the Forum,so nothing bad can happen to Puddles.:fingerscr
:pray:the diagnosis will be found to be because of the raw feeding:fingerscr

The Forum has been a great comfort to me and I am sure Growler and SCM can give you some very helpful advice.

When I needed a pee-sample from my Peppi(RIP),I followed him to the litterbox and stuck a little container under him when he started peeing,worked great.
:grouphug:to you and little beautiful Puddles.

Chris21711
September 12th, 2010, 04:52 PM
Sorry to hear about Puddles L4H, hopefully she still has many good times ahead and her condition is manageable.

It sure has been a rough few months on here. Bendy posted the other day in the tjt that Boo has late stage renal failure......does anyone know why it is so prevalent in cats?

Love4himies
September 12th, 2010, 04:59 PM
Thank you, chico, chris and cpietra :grouphug:

Sorry to hear about Puddles L4H, hopefully she still has many good times ahead and her condition is manageable.

It sure has been a rough few months on here. Bendy posted the other day in the tjt that Boo has late stage renal failure......does anyone know why it is so prevalent in cats?
:eek:, oh no, poor Bendyfoot :(

I don't know why, perhaps there is a genetic weakness in the species :shrug:. It would be interesting to find out.

Tundra_Queen
September 12th, 2010, 06:11 PM
L4H, I'm so sorry to hear about Puddles. :( I hope her next test results will be much better! :grouphug:

ancientgirl
September 12th, 2010, 07:45 PM
L4H, I'm so sorry about Puddles. You always hear getting illnesses early is best and hopefully this is where you are. I know you are going to do everything you can to help your girl.:grouphug:

mikischo
September 12th, 2010, 08:12 PM
I'm sorry to hear about the bloodwork results, L4H. :grouphug:

Even if further tests confirm that it is indeed early stage (stage 2) kidney failure, there is much that can be done to manage it and help slow the progression. Cats can live for many years with CRF. :goodvibes:that you will have Puddles with you for several more years to come.

Yes, CRF is quite common in cats. I'm sure there may be various reasons for this. However, I have read that there have been some interesting studies done in recent years indicating there may be a possible connection between CRF and over-vaccination of cats, in particular with the FVRCP vaccine.

Here is a link to some information on an earlier study [there are later studies (as recently as last year) but I can't find a link at the moment]:

http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/Insight/2004/fall2004/cats.htm

Love4himies
September 13th, 2010, 06:58 AM
Thank you AG for your kind thoughts.

Mikischo, I have printed out the text from the link you provided me with. Thank you very much for that. I have never been a fan of constant vaccinations. Yes, they are important and protect against deadly diseases, but I think going overboard with ones are not doing any human or animal any good. Interesting that FRVCP may also be connected to hyperthyroidism, another common ailment in cats.

From Mikischo's link above:
Insight

Fall 2004

Welcome

Veterinarians have long been stumped by the high prevalence of kidney disease in cats. While some cases are tied to specific illness such as arterial hypertension, pyelonephritis (infections), or toxicities, most causes of chronic renal failure in cats remain undetermined. So when feline vaccine research at Colorado State University showed some interesting anomalies in feline blood samples, researchers were intrigued and began to ask some questions that are in the process of being answered.

“Cats commonly go into chronic kidney failure, especially older cats, and we’ve been asking ourselves for a long time, what goes wrong, what kills these kidneys over time?” said Dr. Michael Lappin, Professor in the Department of Clinical Sciences and the Kenneth W. Smith Professor in Small Animal Clinical Medicine. “Most cats that die of kidney failure without a known cause have infiltrations of lymphocytes and plasma cells in the kidney tissues. These cells can indicate an immune reaction.”

In the 1970s, it was discovered that a cell line derived from a cat kidney – the Crandall-Reese feline kidney (CRFK) cell line – could be used to grow feline viruses like feline herpesvirus1 (FHV-1), calicivirus, and panleukopenia. Some vaccine manufacturers began using the CRFK cell line to grow the viruses and then used them in a combined vaccine (FVRCP vaccine). In general, veterinarians administer the FVRCP vaccines to cats approximately three times as kittens with a booster at one year and, after that, boosters every one to three years. The use of the FVRCP vaccination program has helped save many feline lives by inducing great immunity to these three dangerous viruses.

During the course of a Colorado State University and Heska Corporation collaborative study to determine if blood tests could be used to assess the need for vaccines, researchers made an interesting discovery that related to the commonly used FVRCP vaccine.

“The vaccine companies are doing a great job making pure and effi cacious vaccines,” said Dr. Lappin. “However, when FVRCP vaccines are made, each dose is contaminated with just a little bit of cell culture. What we discovered recently was that cats not only develop antibodies to the viruses in the vaccine, which is our intent, but they also develop antibodies to the cell culture – a culture based on a feline kidney cell line. And that’s where we have to begin to ask some very intriguing questions. In particular, is it possible that overvaccination induces antibodies that are associated with immune-mediated feline kidney disease?”

An early proof concept study conducted in Dr. Lappin’s laboratory as a collaboration between Colorado State University and the Heska Corporation showed the development of CRFK antibodies in cats after administration of injectable FVRCP vaccines. In some cats, these antibodies reacted with cat kidney cell extracts as well. But just because cats are producing antibodies to the CRFK proteins and cat kidney cell extracts does not mean those antibodies are causing illnesses or the deterioration of a cat’s kidney health. Dr. Lappin said much work remains to be done before associations like that can be made. In a grant recently funded by the Heska Corporation, a more in-depth approach should begin to provide some answers. Dr. Lappin and Dr. Jacqueline Whittemore will study which feline tissues react with anti-CRFK antibodies; determine the concentrations of CRFK proteins in all commercially available FVRCP vaccines; and determine if the presence of CRFK or feline kidney cell antibodies are associated with the development of particular illnesses in cats including kidney failure, uveitis, pancreatitis, and hyperthyroidism.

Concerns regarding over-vaccination have led the American Association of Feline Practitioners to adjust the vaccine schedule for FVRCP to once every three years after the kitten series and one year booster. However, it is very important for each cat to be treated as an individual. Owners should bring their cats to their veterinarian every year for a health check-up and to determine an optimal vaccination plan. In other studies, Dr. Lappin worked closely with the Heska Corporation to develop a veterinary-market blood test so veterinarians can test patients to see if vaccine boosters are necessary at the time of a cat’s annual check-up rather than just arbitrarily vaccinating.

For additional information on these studies or if you are interested in finding out how you can support Dr. Lappin’s work, contact Dr. Lappin at (970) 221-4535.

aslan
September 13th, 2010, 07:14 AM
Love4,,i'm so sorry to hear about Puddles. Hopefully SCM and Growler will be able to help out with some info that will help your sweetie get back on track..:grouphug:

chico2
September 13th, 2010, 07:59 AM
Thank you for that info,Mikischo and L4H,all my cats had their vaccinations every year from kitten-hood.
I used to always blindly agree what my vets told me and accepted it..
Rocky,Chico and Vinnie until a couple of years ago,where vaccinated the same.
Now,they get their 3year Rabies and that's it,my current vet does not argue with me about it.
Although this rapport does not directly blame vaccines,there will be no more shots for my cats,even the slightest risk,is a risk I will not take.

BenMax
September 13th, 2010, 08:31 AM
L4H - so very sorry to hear this.

I wish you well dear friend and for you to find the strength to get through this. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Puddles.:grouphug:

Love4himies
September 13th, 2010, 12:18 PM
Thank you Aslan and BenMax. :grouphug:


Tomorrow is her appt for the urinalysis, I hope the vet is able to get some :pray: and we will know if this last blood work was just an anomaly spike (increased by 33% from the last work up in Dec.).

chico, I too trusted my vet and got Snowball and Puddles their shots every year. Not any more though.

14+kitties
September 13th, 2010, 12:57 PM
Sending :goodvibes::fingerscr:pray: for a successful visit tomorrow.

Frenchy
September 13th, 2010, 01:25 PM
I'm so sorry about Puddles L4H :( good luck at the vet tomorrow. I'm hoping it's not as worse as you think. :fingerscr :grouphug:

growler~GateKeeper
September 14th, 2010, 02:36 AM
Puddles has been on raw for a couple of years, her cre and bun values have been so consistent at about 146-152 over the last 5 years and this time they have spiked to 192 as well as her bun (I can't remember that number, I was numbed when I saw the cre). That is why my vet is thinking early renal failure.

What's the ref range for this lab? Cre 83-181? Is it an inhouse or a sent-to-lab test?

Just to give you an idea of when Duffy was diagnosed after the food recall her BUN was @ 14.7 (that labs ref @ the time 5-12.5) & Cre was @ 200.5 (that labs ref @ the time 83-181) both high.

How's her hydration level?

Getting urine out of her is such a chore as she is NOT cooperative.

Hopefully they can get a nice "sterile" urine sample via cysto :fingerscr or she pees on the vet :p :laughing:

:goodvibes: for Puddles

Even though we knew this was coming eventually, it doesn't make it any easier :grouphug:

Love4himies
September 14th, 2010, 06:09 AM
Thanks Growler. I will try to remember to get a copy of the blood work while I am at the vets today, but yes that was the range for creatinine and bun.

The blood work (except the thyroid test) is done in house, as is the urine test.

Love4himies
September 14th, 2010, 05:27 PM
Well the vet visit was horrible :cry::cry:. I was crying, thinking I may have killed Puddles. Now I have to keep a close watch on her.

The vet manually expressed her bladder. He got urine out very easily, but then she started bleeding :cry::cry: and was in pain :(. The vet didn't know what happened. He is sending out her urine sample to get an accurate reading on it, but did take some from the sample to do their in house looking for crystals.

Her ph was 6.5, the specific gravity was 1.05, there was 3+ protein, no crystals and some bacteria, but the sample could have been contaminated. Will have to wait a couple of days for the other test.

ancientgirl
September 14th, 2010, 06:26 PM
Poor girl. I can't imagine getting urine from anybody forcefully feels great. I hope the samples were good enough for the tests.

I hope she's relaxing now that she's home.:grouphug:

bendyfoot
September 14th, 2010, 07:15 PM
Hey L4, I had no idea you were going through this kind of thing as well....not much fun, is it? :(:grouphug: Sorry to hear you had a rough vet visit today. I actually know a ton of people who express their cat or dog's bladder manually (mostly due to some kind of neuro issue) and it's not painful, but can be a bit uncomfortable if the express-ee is tense. Maybe there's an infection or something that caused the blood? Anyways, I know where you're coming from and hope you both have a better day tomorrow :grouphug:

hazelrunpack
September 14th, 2010, 09:54 PM
I hope they can figure out what's going on soon, L4H :grouphug:

:goodvibes: for Puddles feeling much better tomorrow!

14+kitties
September 14th, 2010, 10:49 PM
:grouphug: That must have sucked. :( The one vet I see expresses too. I hate it when she does it. The cats always seem like they hate it so much. They aren't comfortable and hardly in the pee position.
I hope there was no damage done when he expressed her. :fingerscr:pray:
Sending lots more :goodvibes: your way. :grouphug:

Love4himies
September 14th, 2010, 11:06 PM
I know he has damaged something. :cry::cry: She hasn't slept. He gave her some subq's but she hasn't peed yet. I hope he didn't burst her bladder.

I am so stressed, can't sleep.:(

14+kitties
September 14th, 2010, 11:20 PM
He did the xrays after he expressed and everything looked all right, right? So she must be ok. Maybe she has an infection as well?

growler~GateKeeper
September 15th, 2010, 01:07 AM
:grouphug: :goodvibes:

He is sending out her urine sample to get an accurate reading on it, but did take some from the sample to do their in house looking for crystals.

Her ph was 6.5, the specific gravity was 1.05, there was 3+ protein, no crystals and some bacteria, but the sample could have been contaminated. Will have to wait a couple of days for the other test.

Since Puddles was bleeding after the urine I would consider the entire sample inaccurate :rolleyes: Even if the samples were taken mid-stream before touching the table etc the sample could have epitherial cells or bacteria forced from the bladder wall or urethra that may not normally show in a sterile cysto sample. If the stream hit her fur first anything on there could potentially contaminate the sample, if collected from the table it could not be consdered sterile enough for an accurate reading, or too sterile if there is residual cleaner picked up.

I'm floored that a vet would do a manual expression on a cat that has a history of urine retention when attempting to obtain a sample and one who is suspected of having kidney issues. :frustrated:

The USG looks good so far :thumbs up

Love4himies
September 15th, 2010, 07:43 AM
:grouphug: :goodvibes:



Since Puddles was bleeding after the urine I would consider the entire sample inaccurate :rolleyes: Even if the samples were taken mid-stream before touching the table etc the sample could have epitherial cells or bacteria forced from the bladder wall or urethra that may not normally show in a sterile cysto sample. If the stream hit her fur first anything on there could potentially contaminate the sample, if collected from the table it could not be consdered sterile enough for an accurate reading, or too sterile if there is residual cleaner picked up.

I'm floored that a vet would do a manual expression on a cat that has a history of urine retention when attempting to obtain a sample and one who is suspected of having kidney issues. :frustrated:

The USG looks good so far :thumbs up

Even for testing the kidney function? I can tell you it won't happen again :mad:.

Here's the update:

The vet gave her subq's last night so she would pee by about 8-9PM. He also told me to keep an eye on her gum colour just in case there is internal bleeding. So she didn't go pee by 9 so I got up every 30 minutes, checked on her gums, checked her breathing. She would lay her head down to sleep all night. I kept getting up to put her in her litter box, specially cleaned just for HRH Princess Puddles, to encourage her to pee. She wouldn't.

At 6AM she still hadn't peed, she was licking her lips as if she was nauseated, wouldn't eat :(, I am panicked. Called the vet at home he wanted her at the clinic within an hour.

Got out of the shower and there was a HUGE FUR BALL! Then she jumps in her litter box and does a huge pee, NO BLOOD! Then she jumps out, runs to the door and wants to play outside :yell::yell:, Called the vet, canceled the emergency appt (good thing he hadn't left home yet). The whole night she was nauseated with a fur ball :frustrated:. Hubby is going home at noon to check on her.

mastifflover
September 15th, 2010, 07:50 AM
Oh my god Puddles you scared your mom so badly. I am glad Puddles is doing better. You must be so relieved I hope all the tests come back with good results.:grouphug:

chico2
September 15th, 2010, 07:54 AM
L4H,that's good news,isn't it:confused:
Maybe a huge hairball is what caused her problem,I hope so:pray::fingerscr:cat:

Love4himies
September 15th, 2010, 09:44 AM
Oh my god Puddles you scared your mom so badly. I am glad Puddles is doing better. You must be so relieved I hope all the tests come back with good results.:grouphug:

Well Growler liked the specific gravity, so I am feeling good about that.

L4H,that's good news,isn't it:confused:
Maybe a huge hairball is what caused her problem,I hope so:pray::fingerscr:cat:

Of course by 6AM, I had visions that her bladder had ruptured and that she was slowly dying :yell: :cry:

It is good news, but am still cautious, hopefully DH will get a chance to run home at lunch today :pray:. Puddles normally gets very quiet and looses her appetite a day or two before the furball comes out. Of course I don't know how her sleeps are because I have never checked on her every 30 minutes before. Crap, am I tired.:frustrated:

I went outside get some fresh catnip to sprinkle on her breakfast so hopefully she will eat it. She is also on clavamox due to the bleeding so that can cause her to loose her appetite too.

Frenchy
September 15th, 2010, 09:47 AM
Hoping that Puddles will eat a bit today :fingerscr :goodvibes:

catlover2
September 15th, 2010, 12:13 PM
L4H, just read your story on Puddles. What a frustrating and anxious time you've had with her and the vet! Hope you and Puddles have better days ahead. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

loopoo
September 15th, 2010, 04:10 PM
thats great news that she has her energy back:) hope she eats and is feeling good real soon

Love4himies
September 15th, 2010, 05:18 PM
Got home after work and she is still not herself. :( She ate a tiny bit, but not enough to sustain her. It looks like her third eyelid still wants to come out :(. This is reminding me of the beginning of the end of Snowball.:cry:

Should I continue with the Clavamox if she isn't eating? There is no proof of infection, it was just a preventative measure due to the bleeding.

Frenchy
September 15th, 2010, 05:44 PM
Should I continue with the Clavamox if she isn't eating? There is no proof of infection, it was just a preventative measure due to the bleeding.

I'm so sorry she isn't feeling good :(

you know , it's hard to tell about the Clavamox. Maybe it would make her feel better in a few days , and feeling better will make her eat. But then , if she's not eating because of the Clavamox ... I don't know what to tell you L4H :(

Love4himies
September 15th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Thanks Frenchy, I think I will stop the antibiotics. She needs to eat.

Winston
September 15th, 2010, 06:15 PM
L4H when Bomber was ill the vet prescribed a appetite stimulant. I can find the name out for you if you like. I am not sure what to tell you.

Did they give her any meds yet? or was it the clavamox they prescribed?

14+kitties
September 15th, 2010, 08:46 PM
L4 - The vet put Benni on Mirtazapine for an appetite stimulant. It is a pill which is broken into three and one part given three days apart. She had her first third on Mon. Will get her second tomorrow. She isn't eating either. The only way I get food down her is to force feed her through a syringe. I am hoping with the second part of her pill she will get enough appetite back on her own.
Brownie :rip: was on that pill as well for his appetite. For him it worked almost immediately. But he was never off his food as much as what Benni is until close to the end. :shrug:
Continued good vibes, crossed fingers and big prayers for Puddles and Mom.

Love4himies
September 16th, 2010, 06:41 AM
She didn't eat yesterday so I forced fed her :( and she wouldn't eat this morning so I did it again. She hates it :(. I have attached her bloodwork.

I am thinking about looking for a cat vet in Ottawa. I am pretty sure there are none in the Kingston area.

69130

sugarcatmom
September 16th, 2010, 07:20 AM
She didn't eat yesterday so I forced fed her :( and she wouldn't eat this morning so I did it again. She hates it

If you're at the point of having to force feed her, I would stop the Clavamox. Especially since it was only prescribed as a precaution and not for anything specific. It's just too risky when cats lose their appetite. Having had a cat develop hepatic lipidosis from a course of antibiotics (that were prescribed for urinary crystals :wall:), way back when I didn't even know there was such a thing or that antibiotics could wreak such havoc on the feline appetite, I'd rather err on the side of caution.

If she doesn't start eating on her own in a day, I'd be getting that appetite stimulant from the vet.

Love4himies
September 16th, 2010, 07:24 AM
If you're at the point of having to force feed her, I would stop the Clavamox. Especially since it was only prescribed as a precaution and not for anything specific. It's just too risky when cats lose their appetite. Having had a cat develop hepatic lipidosis from a course of antibiotics (that were prescribed for urinary crystals :wall:), way back when I didn't even know there was such a thing or that antibiotics could wreak such havoc on the feline appetite, I'd rather err on the side of caution.

If she doesn't start eating on her own in a day, I'd be getting that appetite stimulant from the vet.

Thanks SCM, I didn't give her any clavamox yesterday due to her not eating, so she hasn't had any since Tues. On the weekend her appetite was fine, Monday not so great, then gone on Tues.

Did you look at her bloodwork, her Alt is high - 112 (20-100 normal), which is throwing a loop into things.

Chris21711
September 16th, 2010, 11:18 AM
Sorry to hear that Puddles has shown little improvement L4H :(

The last time Herbie came home from the Vet's after his constipation issues, the Vet gave him cyproheptadine as an appetite stimulant, 1/4 pill every 8 hours. He didn't need any....he walked in the house straight to his food dish :rolleyes:

Here's :pray:ing that she recovers quickly.

diandpat
September 16th, 2010, 11:35 AM
Oh Dear, such a stressful situation :( I have absolutely nothing to say to help you but I click on this thread every day hoping that Puddles is getting back to her old self :fingerscr
:goodvibes::goodvibes::goodvibes:

Love4himies
September 16th, 2010, 11:38 AM
Sorry to hear that Puddles has shown little improvement L4H :(

The last time Herbie came home from the Vet's after his constipation issues, the Vet gave him cyproheptadine as an appetite stimulant, 1/4 pill every 8 hours. He didn't need any....he walked in the house straight to his food dish :rolleyes:

Silly kitties :frustrated: :laughing:

Here's :pray:ing that she recovers quickly.

Thanks Chris. I really thought her lack of appetite was due to the furball, unless she has more to come :shrug:.

I picked up some cans of Kitten Wellness to feed her. It is easy to mix with water and very palatable to kitties. We'll see how that goes.

chico2
September 16th, 2010, 11:45 AM
Aww L4H,I sooo feel for you:grouphug:
The worry,the frustration breaks your heart.
The scariest of all is when they stop eating,Rocky went down so fast:(
Lets hope an appetite-stimulant will get Puddles eating,I could not even get Rocky to take it,or keep anything down.
:pray:for little Puddles and you:grouphug:

Chris21711
September 16th, 2010, 11:47 AM
Thanks Chris. I really thought her lack of appetite was due to the furball, unless she has more to come :shrug:.



Herbie lost his appetite a couple of weeks ago and I thought "oh no here we go again" but it was this huge hairball :highfive:

Puddles won't even eat the FF fishy ones?.... I know they are not great but they have tempted Herbie when he has been real picky.....right now for some reason the Wellness ain't cutting it with them :rolleyes::cat::cat:

Love4himies
September 16th, 2010, 11:55 AM
Herbie lost his appetite a couple of weeks ago and I thought "oh no here we go again" but it was this huge hairball :highfive:

Puddles won't even eat the FF fishy ones?.... I know they are not great but they have tempted Herbie when he has been real picky.....right now for some reason the Wellness ain't cutting it with them :rolleyes::cat::cat:

Yes, that is my next resort.

She wouldn't eat her favourite Temptations last night, the first time she has ever refused those.

rainbow
September 16th, 2010, 12:47 PM
I'm so sorry to hear that Puddles is refusing to eat. :( :grouphug:

Hoping for a turnaround with the appetite stimulant. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Love4himies
September 16th, 2010, 04:48 PM
OK, I am trading in Puddles :frustrated:, who wants her :frustrated:?

She ate all her food I left out for her, her third eyelid is gone, after I bought a bunch of cans of Kitten Wellness, got some feeding syringes from the vet, talked to the vet about her not eating. :yell: and that is expensive stuff:frustrated:

I was so happy, I picked her up and gave her so many kisses, she thought I was :crazy:. :cloud9: :lovestruck:

bendyfoot
September 16th, 2010, 05:11 PM
I shouldn't laugh, but :laughing: It sounds like Boo. For days she's been "Excuse me? You want me to eat WHAT?" She's refused canned food, raw chicken, cooked chicken, raw pork, cooked pork, cheese, salmon, tuna, you name it. Even if I beg. Then suddenly, she's like, "Oh, you want me to eat canned cat food? Fine with me OMNOMNOM." :wall:

Love4himies
September 16th, 2010, 05:16 PM
I shouldn't laugh, but :laughing: It sounds like Boo. For days she's been "Excuse me? You want me to eat WHAT?" She's refused canned food, raw chicken, cooked chicken, raw pork, cooked pork, cheese, salmon, tuna, you name it. Even if I beg. Then suddenly, she's like, "Oh, you want me to eat canned cat food? Fine with me OMNOMNOM." :wall:

What is wrong with these cats :yell:, I have 5 more gray hairs :yell:

Now we need Bennie to start eating :pray::goodvibes::fingerscr

bendyfoot
September 16th, 2010, 05:25 PM
What is wrong with these cats :yell:, I have 5 more gray hairs :yell:


Only 5??? :eek: I'm running out of non-greys at this rate! :rolleyes::laughing:

TeriM
September 16th, 2010, 08:19 PM
So glad that Puddles is eating :thumbs up.

Hoping for continued improvement and stabalization for her :goodvibes: :fingerscr :goodvibes:.

Winston
September 16th, 2010, 08:26 PM
L4H I was thinking about Puddles today and was wondering if she had the same type of problem as Tabitha? They determined that she had pancreatitus and if I am correct the test was a urine/crea protein test. I have just finished a 1 month round of meds and need to have it done again to see if the pancreatitus improved and if she still has the kidney infection.

I am glad she is eating that is a positive sign. We all know there is usually something up when they dont eat.:thumbs up Hope you get a good night sleep!!

Cindy

Tundra_Queen
September 16th, 2010, 08:40 PM
L4h, I'm so glad that Puddles is eating again!!

I was going to tell u that when Willie was so sick years ago and speant almost 2 weeks at the vets the vet finally gave him diazapam and he wolfed down his food like crazy!! It was amazing! One minute he wouldn't eat and when the pill kicked in he ate it like crazy. He couldn't walk very well..LOL but at least he was eating and starting to gain all the weight he lost.

14+kitties
September 16th, 2010, 10:24 PM
I am so glad Puddles is starting to eat for you. What a load off your mind that must be. :cloud9: Puddles, stop scaring Mommy!!!

Now we need Bennie to start eating :pray::goodvibes::fingerscr

Thank you so much for the thoughts L4. :grouphug: Unfortunately she isn't. :(

hazelrunpack
September 16th, 2010, 11:07 PM
I'm glad to hear that Puddles has decided eating is a good thing again! :goodvibes:

Sorry to hear that Benni hasn't :(

rainbow
September 16th, 2010, 11:19 PM
I'm glad to hear that Puddles has decided eating is a good thing again! :goodvibes:

Sorry to hear that Benni hasn't :(

I second that. :thumbs up

Woo Hoo for Puddles (and Boo). :highfive:

And, hopefully the "things happen in threes" rule will make Benni #3. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

chico2
September 17th, 2010, 07:40 AM
OMG,what a relief L4H,made my day:grouphug:

Love4himies
September 17th, 2010, 06:51 PM
Bad news for the kitties. Puddles urinalysis came back. The crotchety old lady is going to be around for a while to keep the young 'uns under control. No indication of any kidney issues.

Soooooooo could the creatinine results be from a high protein diet/dehydration????

hazelrunpack
September 17th, 2010, 07:01 PM
:highfive:

Don't know the answer to your question, but I'm relieved about the UA results!!!

ancientgirl
September 17th, 2010, 07:40 PM
Bad news for the kitties. Puddles urinalysis came back. The crotchety old lady is going to be around for a while to keep the young 'uns under control. No indication of any kidney issues.

Soooooooo could the creatinine results be from a high protein diet/dehydration????

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so happy the Kidney's are okay.

Rgeurts
September 17th, 2010, 07:46 PM
Bad news for the kitties. Puddles urinalysis came back. The crotchety old lady is going to be around for a while to keep the young 'uns under control. No indication of any kidney issues.

Soooooooo could the creatinine results be from a high protein diet/dehydration????

I'm SO happy for you!! :highfive:

I get so scared everytime I pop in this thread. You must feel so relieved!! :D:cloud9:

Love4himies
September 17th, 2010, 07:58 PM
Thank you, HRP, AG and Rugerts. The first thing the vet said: "you can sleep tonight" :laughing: I think that means he knows me too well .

Yes, I am so happy and will sleep soooooo good tonight.

sugarcatmom
September 17th, 2010, 08:03 PM
Bad news for the kitties. Puddles urinalysis came back. The crotchety old lady is going to be around for a while to keep the young 'uns under control. No indication of any kidney issues.

Soooooooo could the creatinine results be from a high protein diet/dehydration????

:highfive: Yippeee!

Creatinine can for sure rise due to dehydration, but stress can also apparently cause an increase: http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.bme/11730275/Behavioural_stress_blunts_the_creatinine_clearance _increase_induced_by_a_protein_load_in_healthy_sub jects

Winston
September 17th, 2010, 08:34 PM
L4H I am so glad to her Puddles is doing better!!! thats such good news!

Love4himies
September 18th, 2010, 07:41 AM
:highfive: Yippeee!

Creatinine can for sure rise due to dehydration, but stress can also apparently cause an increase: http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.bme/11730275/Behavioural_stress_blunts_the_creatinine_clearance _increase_induced_by_a_protein_load_in_healthy_sub jects

She was definitely under a lot of stress. They clipped her nails before they drew blood :yell:. I can't clip her nails because she hates it so much she bites me. I must remember to tell them blood first, everything else later.

chico2
September 18th, 2010, 09:06 AM
L4H,I am soooo relieved,maybe she now broke the kitty-curse from the last couple of months.
Now all we need is good news about Benni:fingerscr:pray:

Love4himies
September 18th, 2010, 09:29 AM
L4H,I am soooo relieved,maybe she now broke the kitty-curse from the last couple of months.
Now all we need is good news about Benni:fingerscr:pray:

Thank you, chico.

Benni's been on my mind too. Please eat Benni :pray: :goodvibes:

14+kitties
September 18th, 2010, 09:33 AM
Great news!!! :highfive::thumbs up You must be soooo relieved!! And well rested! ;):laughing:

Frenchy
September 18th, 2010, 09:57 AM
yea for Puddles and her mommy ! :highfive:

rainbow
September 18th, 2010, 12:53 PM
WOO HOO for Puddles :highfive: .....that is great news. :thumbs up

Love4himies
September 18th, 2010, 01:19 PM
Thanks guys :grouphug:

Great news!!! :highfive::thumbs up You must be soooo relieved!! And well rested! ;):laughing:

Yup, 10 hours last night :eek: :cloud9:

krdahmer
September 19th, 2010, 12:33 AM
that is sooo awesome!!!!:highfive::thumbs up good girl puddles!!! :lovestruck:

now for benni....:pray:

Magicwildwolf69
September 19th, 2010, 01:45 AM
I just caught up with this post and want to send :grouphug::grouphug: and i'm so glad puddles is ok!

Chris21711
September 19th, 2010, 05:20 PM
Great news for Puddles L4H :highfive:....Did you thank her for the extra gray hairs :laughing:

Love4himies
September 19th, 2010, 05:24 PM
Great news for Puddles L4H :highfive:....Did you thank her for the extra gray hairs :laughing:

Thanks Chris. I didn't thank her, but my hairdresser did :laughing: