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English Mastiff

Tinaa_Anglea
August 30th, 2010, 10:09 AM
Hi everyone , I am getting an English Mastiff puppy in three weeks when she is ready to come home, I was wondering, Is iit BAD to get a Female dog spayed??.

Marty11
August 30th, 2010, 10:16 AM
All pets should be neutered/spayed. You don't want to go through the heats, they are not fun esp with a big dog......

BenMax
August 30th, 2010, 10:19 AM
Hi everyone , I am getting an English Mastiff puppy in three weeks when she is ready to come home, I was wondering, Is iit BAD to get a Female dog spayed??.

Congrats on getting a companion. Question however: why would you think it 'Bad' to have your dog spayed. It is the responsible thing to do.

Longblades
August 30th, 2010, 07:53 PM
Any operation will have pros and cons and possible consequences. I will post some links so you can decide for yourself but there is a certain amount of research to suggest WHEN you spay (or castrate) a large breed dog is very important. Some large dog breeders will stipulate in their contracts that neutering should not be done before 12, 18 or even 24 months. Sometimes it will be tied to the health guarantee. What does your dog's breeder say?

Neuter/Spay - Health, Behavioural, Societal and Other Pros and Cons
This is a reading list of articles and papers by Veterinarians, breed clubs, trainers and others on the pros and cons of neutering or spaying your dog that I have found helpful and very educational. Most are based on extensive Veterinary research and also provide references you can check further. If you are wrestling with the question of when or whether to neuter/spay these may help. They do not all agree and one is even a rebuttal of another. One is a link to a radio show interview. One is a link to a medical testosterone suppressant not yet available in N. America but is in the U.K. and Australia. Some are not easy reading.

I think I personally found the first two in the list to be of most help and I appreciated the non-biased way the information was presented. The list is in no particular order, articles were simply added as I discovered them. If the links are not clickable I have tried to include the name of the paper and author in case you have to search for them. I hope this helps and good luck with your decision. A tip, I went to my Vet to discuss the first two articles with her.



http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs
Laura J. Sanborn, M.S.
May 14, 2007

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdf/10.2460/javma.231.11.1665
Determining the optimal age for gonadectomy of dogs and cats,
Margaret V. Root Kustritz, dvm, phd, dact

http://www.savethedals.org/earlyneuter.htm
Veterinary "Review" Article on Neutering, with Implications for Dalmatian Stone-Formers Abstracted by Carroll H. Weiss
Study Group on Urinary Stones
Research Committee
Dalmatian Club of America

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/neutr.html
NEUTERING MALE AND FEMALE DOGS
Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M.
©2003 for BREEDERVET

http://www.littleriverlabs.com/neuter.htm
The Question Of Neutering and at what age
(Put together by Gregg Tonkin, Little River Labradors from postings by Pam Davol PHD and Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP)

http://leerburg.com/pdf/neutering.pdf
Should You Neuter Your Dog?
Ed Frawley, Leerburg Kennels * words are l e e r b u r g.com and L e e r b u r g Kennels

http://www.traciehotchner.com/dt/files/WillWeChangeOnEarlySpay-Neuter_Villalobos.pdf
The Bond and Beyond for VPN December 2008
by Alice Villalobos
Will We Change on Early Spay-Neuter?

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/castrationindogs.html
ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS
Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M.
©2003 for BREEDERVET

http://www.petresource.com/Articles%20of%20Interest/new_views_on_neutering.htm
New Views On Neutering
By Ruth Marrion, DVM

http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/Session%20I.pdf
Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering
Proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Non-Surgical
Contraceptive Methods for Pet Population Control • www.acc-d.org
SESSION OVERVIEW - Dr. John Verstegen

http://www.peptech.com/HTML/Animal_Health/Superlorin_general.html
A non-surgical method to suppress testosterone

http://prdupl02.ynet.co.il/ForumFiles_2/23999370.pdf
Pros and Cons of Neutering
E. Hardie
Department of Clinical Sciences, North Carolina State University, Raleigh, NC, USA.



http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/rspca.shtml
RSPCA Admit to Spaying and Castrating Puppies AT SIX WEEKS OLD
Stan Rawlinson MTCBPT.MPAACT
Doglistener Behaviourist and Obedience Trainer

http://users.lavalink.com.au/theos/Spay-neuter.htm#vacc
Should I spay or should I no..? -- pros and cons of Spay-neuter
Hungarian Vizsla Health Resource

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/spaying_neutering.shtml
Spaying and Castration (Neutering) Dogs and Cats A Stark Warning
Stan Rawlinson, a full time Dog Behaviourist and Obedience Trainer.

http://www.wholedognews.com/
Spay, Neuter, and Cancer: Revisiting and Old Trinity
Myrna Milani, BS, DVM

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete One Veterinarian's Opinion
© 2005 Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP

http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/Documents/PedRebuttal%20.pdf
Rebuttal to “Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete”
Lisa M Howe, DVM, PhD, Dipl. ACVS Associate Professor, Small Animal Surgery Co-Chief
Surgical Sciences Sect Dept of Vet Small Animal Clinical Sci
College of Vet Med and Biom Sciences Texas A&M Univ College Station TX 77843

http://www.pluggd.tv/audio/channels/dog_talk_the_radio_show/episodes/4njnh
Dog Talk Show #96 Tracie Hotchner (10-18-2008)
Early spay/neuter may be harming our dogs! Hear Dr. Christine Zink, DVM, PhD, DAVCP on the physical benefits of delaying neutering and trainer Parvene Farhoody on how it can reduce aggression.

http://www.antrozoologisenteret.no/artikler/art_breed.pdf
Effects of breed, sex, and neuter status on trainability in dogs
James A. Serpell* and Yuying Hsu†

http://users.skynet.be/fa242124/a-english/castration-dogs.html
Gonadectomy and behavior
Dr Joël Dehasse

http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/faculty/Gosling/reprints/AABS05DogPersonalityReview.pdf
Temperament and personality in dogs (Canis familiaris): A review and evaluation of past research
Amanda C. Jones *, Samuel D. Gosling

http://www.skeptvet.com/index.php?p=1_23_Benefits-Risks-of-Neutering
Evaluating the Benefits and Risks of Neutering
The SkeptVet – the owner of this blog is not identified but the articles referenced are searchable.

http://www.petfinder.com/for-shelters/pediatric-spay-neuter.html
Pediatric Spay/Neuter
Dr. Lila Miller, ASPCA

http://k9harmony.co.uk/spaying-and-castration/
Spaying and Castration – What Your Vet and the Rescue Centres May Not Tell You
Pauline Waller, member #178 Professional Association of Applied Canine Trainers, - articles referenced and searchable

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=1123732;hl=castrate#pid1123732
To Castrate or Not? – Interesting discussion regarding a young male targeted by an aggressive older male.

http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files/Early%20SN%20and%20Behavior.pdf
Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering on Behavior in Dogs
Deborah L. Duffy, Ph.D., and James A. Serpell, Ph.D., Center for the Interaction of
Animals and Society, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania

http://www.2ndchance.info/spayneuter.htm
At What Age Should I Spay or Neuter My Dog or Cat?
What Are The Advantages And Disadvantages Of Neutering My Pet?
Revisiting The Idea Of Early-Age Neutering
Ron Hines DVM PhD 10/05/09

http://saveourdogs.net/category/health/
Articles and links to Veterinary organizations opposing mandatory spay/neuter

http://askdryin.com/blog/tag/dog-behavior-arousal-aggression-spay-neuter/
Can Spaying Make Dog Behaviour Worse?
Sophia Yin, DVM, MS March 5, 2009

http://www.associationofanimalbehaviorprofessionals.com/effects_of_neutering.html
The Effects of Spaying and Neutering on Canine Behaviour
James O’Heare, Based on section from Aggressive Behavior in Dogs, 2006,

http://www.petfriendlyworld.com/chatforum/showthread.php?t=23096
The Behavioural Effects of Canine Castration
Hazel Palmer, 1993 See post #8 in the chat forum at Pet Friendly World.

http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files/Early%20SN%20and%20Behavior.pdf
Does Spaying and Neutering Reduce Aggression?
Dr. Polley DVM, 2001 American Dog Breeders Association

TanNeeko
August 30th, 2010, 11:05 PM
I have a friend who had english mastiff males and her breeder made her wait till her guys were 2 years old....not sure of the reason but she did get them fixed. Always a good thing to do anyways.

Tinaa_Anglea
August 31st, 2010, 11:10 AM
Thanks guys, especially for the websites !. I am so excited to get this pup and I will poost pictures !. I thought it was bad because my sister told me that when you get a female dog spayed it makes them go a bit crazy and more dis loyal. And yes having a big dog like this I DEFINITELY do not want to have to deal with her heats lol !

mastifflover
August 31st, 2010, 11:28 AM
Giant breeds should not be spayed before 1.5 to 2 years of age. This is a link you may find very interesting and will answer some of your questions. This is a great board of Mastiff owners and they will welcome you and answer all your questions. You could not get more mastiff saavy people. I used to be on all the time when Buddy was around :rip:. They are a wealth of info. Now I expect to see pics as soon as you get your sweet drool factory.Where are you located?
http://www.mastiffonlinecommunity.net/viewtopic.php?t=16573&highlight=age+spay+neuter

Mat&Murph
August 31st, 2010, 12:20 PM
Awsome site mastifflover...I was on the same site looking up stuff all the time

mastifflover
August 31st, 2010, 01:12 PM
I found it to be the most welcoming and the members are really mastiff smart. I joined before it used to be emoc but it changed a few years ago and luckily most of the members stayed. They were always helpful and would help dig up answers and truly supportive of rescue as well as reputable breeding and showing. PS MattandMurp when are we going to see more pics of your beautiful kids....been awhile

Dog Dancer
August 31st, 2010, 01:18 PM
As the original question of when to neuter seems to have been answered, the opinion about spay and neuter changing your dog into a disloyal companion is absolutely incorrect. Your pet (male or female) will not become a total doofus by being altered. In most pets it will totally calm them down and make them even more loving as they no longer have the urge to go out and find a mate to procreate. Like the others, we look forward to pics when you get the wee (for now) beast.

mastifflover
August 31st, 2010, 01:29 PM
Neutering and spaying do not change a dogs personality or character as Dog Dancer said, that is just garbage. It will calm your dog and protect it from cervical, uteran or testicular cancer. I can only find good things to say I have never experienced an negative effect from either surgery.

Longblades
August 31st, 2010, 02:24 PM
Neutering and spaying do not change a dogs personality or character as Dog Dancer said, that is just garbage. It will calm your dog and protect it from cervical, uteran or testicular cancer. I can only find good things to say I have never experienced an negative effect from either surgery. A calmer dog IS a changed dog. I actually have not observed that neutering has a calming effect but rather calming comes with age and maturity.

Analysis of the C-BARQ data has revealed some startling contradictions to long held beliefs about the non reproductive effects of neutering. Some of it is just wild. Here are some examples from: http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files/Early%20SN%20and%20Behavior.pdf

SPAYED/NEUTERED DOGS BEG FOR FOOD
AND LIICK PEOPLE/OBJECTS MORE OFTEN

SPAYED/NEUTERED DOGS ARE MORE AGGRESSIIVE
TOWARD PEOPLE AND OTHER DOGS

SPAYED/NEUTERED DOGS ARE MORE FEARFUL AND
SENSIITIIVE TO HANDLIING

SPAYED DOGS ARE LESS ENERGETIIC

SPAYED/NEUTERED DOGS ROLL IIN & EAT
FECES MORE OFTEN

NEUTERED DOGS BEG & STEAL FOOD
MORE OFTEN

SPAYED/NEUTERED DOGS SELF-GROOM
& BARK EXCESSIIVELY
Weird eh? Who'd have guessed? The link to this study is in the list I posted up above. It's fascinating reading.

And, just to be clear, the risk of cancer in the cervix, uterus or testicles will only be reduced if they are removed. They aren't necessarily. Especially with the girls sometimes only the ovaries are revoved. And, as was posted here just about a week ago, chemical castration is available in some places and it does not remove the testicles. Be sure to discuss with your Vet what the procedure will entail.

Testicular cancer is not common anyway. What research shows is that neutering the boys can increase the risk of prostate cancer by as much as four times and prostate cancer is more serious.

I think it's good to read as much as you can and make an educated decision. Not easy when so much of it is contradictory.

mastifflover
August 31st, 2010, 02:27 PM
Since I have never experienced any of these things or know anyone who has I am still for s/n I think the good out weighs the bad.

14+kitties
August 31st, 2010, 02:40 PM
The important thing is if you choose not to spay your girl until she is a certain age then you accept the responsibility of keeping her away from all intact male dogs when she is in heat. IMO it is never a good idea to not fix your dog. You have to decide what age is the optimal age to have her spayed and follow through.

Dog Dancer
August 31st, 2010, 02:54 PM
I have always had my pets altered and have never had a dog (male or female) that exhibited any of those things Longblades has listed (and yes I realize this is not Longblades list, simply one she has copied here). It seems to me that almost everything on that list is a behavioral issue that could be corrected with simple training. These are not things that should be used to try to deter a person from altering their pet. Having a dog of any size that has the urge to procreate is a significant responsibility. Health benefits aside, there is a much greater risk of a dog being injured if it is fighting or being fought over to mate. And our society simply has more than enough puppies to meet the demand, this is abundantly clear. So Tinaa, is it bad to spay a female dog. Absolutely not. It is responsible. For a large breed dog your vet can recommend the best time to do it, and you need to be super careful until that time comes, but it's definitely not a bad thing to do. Your dog will not have the same urge that humans do to produce babies. Well not really, if she's in heat she will have that urge. She will not feel she has been deprived of some primal need if she is spayed. If you are looking into the pro's and con's of spaying a dog, don't forget to look into the con's of having your dog produce a litter of pups also. There are many complications that dogs can encounter during pregnancy and birthing, any number of which could cost your dog her life, to say nothing of the medical costs you would incur to ensure her safety and health throughout the process.

mastifflover
August 31st, 2010, 02:58 PM
I know when I got Bud he was not neutered due to health issues but of course once he was able to be safely neutered he was. What I did find that other dogs would get aggressive with him and him being a big mommas boy wanted nothing to do with fighting. But once neutered that was no longer an issue.

Longblades
August 31st, 2010, 03:09 PM
It seems to me that almost everything on that list is a behavioral issue that could be corrected with simple training.As far as I'm concerned this statement hits the nail on the head. I read the list and thought, what? How can that be? It's so contrary to everything many of us have been told for so long.

BUT

How many times have we been led to believe that spay/neuter is a magic cure-all? What if that's what the owners of those spayed and neutered dogs thought and so they relaxed their training, thinking the operation would solve or prevent any behavioural problems? If that was so it seems to me it might account for the surprisingly higher number of weird, undesirable behaviours in those dogs in the study.

Taking the same direction, the converse might be true for the intact dogs. Perhaps their owners were led to believe an intact dog would be more of a problem so they did not relax, or even increased, their efforts to have a well behaved dog, and succeeded.

We won't find out, the C-BARQ study did not address the attitude of the owners. It may have been a very significant factor.

14+kitties
August 31st, 2010, 03:39 PM
IME the average Joe does not think much past having the dog s/n to prevent unwanted litters. :shrug:

TanNeeko
August 31st, 2010, 03:39 PM
My old man is fixed and he is fine. I personally think it is better for them all to be fixed...My young man will be done when he is old enough..

mastifflover
August 31st, 2010, 03:48 PM
As far as I'm concerned this statement hits the nail on the head. I read the list and thought, what? How can that be? It's so contrary to everything many of us have been told for so long.

BUT

How many times have we been led to believe that spay/neuter is a magic cure-all? What if that's what the owners of those spayed and neutered dogs thought and so they relaxed their training, thinking the operation would solve or prevent any behavioural problems? If that was so it seems to me it might account for the surprisingly higher number of weird, undesirable behaviours in those dogs in the study.

Taking the same direction, the converse might be true for the intact dogs. Perhaps their owners were led to believe an intact dog would be more of a problem so they did not relax, or even increased, their efforts to have a well behaved dog, and succeeded.

We won't find out, the C-BARQ study did not address the attitude of the owners. It may have been a very significant factor.

I think you hit the nail on the head Longblades

Tinaa_Anglea
August 31st, 2010, 07:01 PM
Well I think I am going to get her spayed when she is 6 months. I think it will be for the best. And I cannot wait till she comes home, lol I have always wanted a big breed of dog, and it seems this is the biggest! :). And I am located in Ontario Canada:thumbs up

Dog Dancer
August 31st, 2010, 09:50 PM
Tinaa, I'm so glad you are going to get your girl spayed. You won't regret it. Just make sure you discuss the age with your vet and/or breeder. I've never had a giant breed dog, and as several people have said with giant breeds later can be better for their development. I'm sure no matter what you're going to be a great mom and have a blast with your pup.