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Working collars or torture devices ....

Frenchy
August 21st, 2010, 03:37 PM
A Pyrenee owner I have as a friend on Facebook posted these this morning. I thought these were in a museum or something but , some posted that farmers are still using them on their dogs (mostly pyrenees I would think) in Russia. To protect the dogs against bears and other animals. I can see how these would protect the dogs but , as Poodletalk posted on FB , how can the dog rest wearing these ? :eek:

Frenchy
August 21st, 2010, 03:38 PM
some more .... ouch ....

Frenchy
August 21st, 2010, 03:39 PM
some more ....

Frenchy
August 21st, 2010, 03:40 PM
last ones ....

14+kitties
August 21st, 2010, 03:47 PM
Poor dogs. :( Maybe the farmers took them off when the dog's work was done for the day? :fingerscr Some of those look downright nasty!

erykah1310
August 21st, 2010, 03:53 PM
Some do look terrible, but others not so bad, I would put one on a dog that had a job to protect livestock against bears and other predators, when a dog lays down their neck doesnt really lay flat on the ground especially if they lay on their bellies.
Not something I would put on a dog just for the looks of it, but dont see how its torchurec to the dog thats wearing them unless its the crazy long ones and its on all day long, I think a prong collar would be far more uncomfortable for a dog and I see many dogs who wear them day in and day out

Etown_Chick
August 21st, 2010, 07:09 PM
I can see Goth kids wearing some of them! heh heh
Ya they probably wouldn't bother the dogs too much, some of them anyway.

Goldfields
August 22nd, 2010, 12:48 AM
All of them look comfortable enough on the inside and I'm sure that anyone who cares enough for their dogs to want to protect them from predators would be making sure the collar didn't hurt them. And dogs aren't stupid, I reckon they'd learn to lie with their heads between their front legs with that sort of collar on. Or on their side.

Frenchy
August 22nd, 2010, 10:29 AM
Sorry I don't see it , I don't see how can a dog lay down when there's 10 inches spikes / blades , all around his collar. His neck / head can't even reach the ground. :shrug:

erykah1310
August 22nd, 2010, 11:29 AM
Some are rediculous Frenchy, I will agree to that, however its hardly torchure devices for the dog. Really dogs wearing elizabethan collars after surgery would be far harder on them, getting caught in doorways, steps, couches, flipping food bowls over ect.
the smaller more condenced spiked collars wouldn't cause a problem at all.
I think it would be far more cruel to ask a dog to protect its livestock against a bear and not have some form of protection on the neck.

Goldfields
August 22nd, 2010, 12:14 PM
They obviously can sleep with them on, otherwise they'd be dead. Any person or animal totally deprived of sleep would die. I imagine the spikes just dig into the ground when they put weight on them when lying down. They are working dogs, not dogs sleeping on hard floors.

14+kitties
August 22nd, 2010, 12:20 PM
I hate to see their poor paws when they try to scratch themselves. :( But I guess they don't do that either. :shrug: The dog in the second post doesn't look too pleased. In fact he looks like he is being choked by it.
Frenchy - I guess we are just too wimpy or something. :grouphug: I'm with you!

erykah1310
August 22nd, 2010, 12:27 PM
Really? their paws?
I have never seen a dog come straight in from the side to scratch themselves,that and they dont look to be sharp, just pointed for if a bear bites at the neck it would hurt the inside of the mouth.
I'm not a fan of the collars dont get me wrong but I think maybe the look of them is far too much for some to get over other than the functionality of them.
I would say a halti is much more of a torture device than this as I have seen people use them for correction far too often, reefing the dogs head around in frustration when the dog learns to put his head down to pull.
Way to solve the collar problem, start an AR group and ban them, its what everyone does when they dont like something be it a tool or a breed.

Meatos
August 22nd, 2010, 12:27 PM
Me three!

You're not coming within 100ft of me and my dog with one of those things!!

Goldfields
August 22nd, 2010, 12:29 PM
Well, my question about that second photo would be why should the dog have that on in the house? Does the collar even belong to that particular dog, or was it simply put on so they could get a photo of it, because it does look as if it doesn't fit it.

erykah1310
August 22nd, 2010, 12:46 PM
Well, my question about that second photo would be why should the dog have that on in the house? Does the collar even belong to that particular dog, or was it simply put on so they could get a photo of it, because it does look as if it doesn't fit it.
Absofriggenlutely not!
Sad thing is they arent being used for what they were intended for, its for the "oh my dog is so tough and menacing" look
People think they look cool:rolleyes: and makes people more afraid of their dog. Some of them I have seen on Bullies, Rotties, Dobies ect, just walking around in the city. It looks stupid.
But like I said, I would rather put one on my livestock guardian dog then let something chew its neck off, doesnt protect its back belly or anything else though:shrug:
I'm not pro freaky collars or anything, but I could see the reason for them and they probably look far worse than they are (some of them).

erykah1310
August 22nd, 2010, 12:54 PM
This is something that I think deserves more attention "click here" (http://www.horsingaroundllc.com/ezeewean/)
Sure the flexible nobby ones are probably less intense but go to old barns and you can find halters laying around with nails or screws put through the nose piece so when the foal goes in for milk it pokes the mares udder, causing pain and resulting in a swift kick to get the foal off...

Marcha
August 22nd, 2010, 01:56 PM
Most predators go for the neck. Cougars for the back of the neck, other cats go for the jugular. Bears prefer the jugular too. I'd guess that the first "bite" would hurt the predator more than encourage it to go for the rest of the dog. I cannot imagine these collars would be on when the dog is 'off duty', but if the dog is out guarding or herding, it'd be on.

I can't say I like them for animals, but a good working dog is expensive in money and time to buy and train. Protecting one's 'investment' is a sound practice.

cassiek
August 22nd, 2010, 04:17 PM
This is something that I think deserves more attention "click here" (http://www.horsingaroundllc.com/ezeewean/)
Sure the flexible nobby ones are probably less intense but go to old barns and you can find halters laying around with nails or screws put through the nose piece so when the foal goes in for milk it pokes the mares udder, causing pain and resulting in a swift kick to get the foal off...

They use something similair in young calves when they are being weaned. They can still stay physically with their moms, but are unable to suckle. :shrug: they are not physically prevented, i.e. by a fence, from being next to their mothers. However, the ones I have seen for calves do not inflict physical pain or discomfort on the mother or her young, it's just a plastic flap that covers the nose/mouth when he/she leans up to try to nurse.

Goldfields
August 22nd, 2010, 08:50 PM
Absofriggenlutely not!
Sad thing is they arent being used for what they were intended for, its for the "oh my dog is so tough and menacing" look
People think they look cool:rolleyes: and makes people more afraid of their dog. Some of them I have seen on Bullies, Rotties, Dobies ect, just walking around in the city. It looks stupid.

I didn't know people would use them for effect and agree that's silly, but I also had a vision of the person that may do that - collars on their own neck, crazy hair style, tattoos and body piercings etc . . Still, everyone to their own tastes though, variety is the spice of life. The point I was unsuccessfully making was that such collars in the house would be ridiculous, imagine if the dog brushed again your leg. OUCH!! :D

14+kitties
August 23rd, 2010, 01:40 PM
Really? their paws?

Ok, technically their feet and legs. :rolleyes: You can't tell me a dog can scratch his/her ears with some of those collars on and not catch themselves on some of the spikes. :shrug:

Luvmypitgirls
August 23rd, 2010, 01:56 PM
Ok, technically their feet and legs. :rolleyes: You can't tell me a dog can scratch his/her ears with some of those collars on and not catch themselves on some of the spikes. :shrug:

14+....:grouphug:

Frenchy
August 23rd, 2010, 02:30 PM
Frenchy - I guess we are just too wimpy or something. :grouphug: I'm with you!

Me three!

You're not coming within 100ft of me and my dog with one of those things!!

Yes , count me in as a wimpy :D

I still think those collars are too hard core :shrug: If you must protect sheep from bears , then relocate them , build a barn ... I would find another solution then to expect a Pyrenee (or any other breed) to fight off a bear.

14+kitties
August 23rd, 2010, 04:02 PM
I didn't know people would use them for effect and agree that's silly, but I also had a vision of the person that may do that - collars on their own neck, crazy hair style, tattoos and body piercings etc . . Still, everyone to their own tastes though, variety is the spice of life. The point I was unsuccessfully making was that such collars in the house would be ridiculous, imagine if the dog brushed again your leg. OUCH!! :D

Slightly :offtopic::sorry:
Y'know, that's painting a pretty biased picture, isn't it? I know tons of wonderful people who have tattoos. Quite a few of our members do as a matter of fact. I have thought about getting one in memory of my mother losing her battle with breast cancer. I don't have collars like those on my dogs.
Crazy hair styles - yeah, there's times mines' pretty crazy! :D Funky colours and all. A lot of our customers have multi coloured hair. As in blues, pinks, oranges, vibrant reds, etc. They are such marvelous human beings to talk to. None of them put collars like that on the dogs I have seen them with. I'd rather they dyed their hair then their dogs. :shrug:
Earrings - lol I have to laugh about that because I believe I shocked one of our favourite members when she met me last week. :D I know some members have a few piercings too. I don't ask for specifics. That's their business. But neither would I pigeon hole them into a certain "type of person".
To each our own. The important thing is how they treat others and animals. Not how they look.

Frenchy
August 23rd, 2010, 04:05 PM
Earrings - lol I have to laugh about that because I believe I shocked one of our favourite members when she met me last week. :D

:eek:

off to call LP ....

:laughing:

14+kitties
August 23rd, 2010, 04:12 PM
:eek:

off to call LP ....

:laughing:

:laugh::laugh: It's ok Frenchy! Really! I have three holes in one ear, five in the other. No biggie. Just not what LP expected. :D

Frenchy
August 23rd, 2010, 04:24 PM
:laugh::laugh: It's ok Frenchy! Really! I have three holes in one ear, five in the other. No biggie. Just not what LP expected. :D

oh , I thought you had something kinky going on http://bestsmileys.com/misbehaving/10.gif

:laughing:

Luvmypitgirls
August 23rd, 2010, 05:00 PM
Slightly :offtopic::sorry:
Y'know, that's painting a pretty biased picture, isn't it? I know tons of wonderful people who have tattoos. Quite a few of our members do as a matter of fact. I have thought about getting one in memory of my mother losing her battle with breast cancer. I don't have collars like those on my dogs.
Crazy hair styles - yeah, there's times mines' pretty crazy! :D Funky colours and all. A lot of our customers have multi coloured hair. As in blues, pinks, oranges, vibrant reds, etc. They are such marvelous human beings to talk to. None of them put collars like that on the dogs I have seen them with. I'd rather they dyed their hair then their dogs. :shrug:
Earrings - lol I have to laugh about that because I believe I shocked one of our favourite members when she met me last week. :D I know some members have a few piercings too. I don't ask for specifics. That's their business. But neither would I pigeon hole them into a certain "type of person".
To each our own. The important thing is how they treat others and animals. Not how they look.

14+, from someone that has crazy hair, tats and body piercings (ears), I wish to thank you my friend for addressing that ridiculous statement so eloquantly.
It's been my experience, that most animal abusers, look like the joe blow from down the block or the girl next door, but I certainly don't label all "normal looking people", as animal abusers.
You are a class act my friend, and may Karma bless you 10fold for the wonderful person you are.:grouphug:

14+kitties
August 23rd, 2010, 05:05 PM
14+, from someone that has crazy hair, tats and body piercings (ears), I wish to thank you my friend for addressing that ridiculous statement so eloquantly.
It's been my experience, that most animal abusers, look like the joe blow from down the block or the girl next door, but I certainly don't label all "normal looking people", as animal abusers.
You are a class act my friend, and may Karma bless you 10fold for the wonderful person you are.:grouphug:

Aww thanks LMPG! Right back at ya! :grouphug:

Goldfields
August 23rd, 2010, 09:38 PM
Yes , count me in as a wimpy :D

I still think those collars are too hard core :shrug: If you must protect sheep from bears , then relocate them , build a barn ... I would find another solution then to expect a Pyrenee (or any other breed) to fight off a bear.

Have to agree, sounds like the wrong place to have sheep to me and I am very protective of my dogs, but it isn't a perfect world so I guess they get an ounce of credit for trying to protect their dogs.

14+, no it's not a biased picture at all. It's realistic. Erykah1310 commented on people using them for effect, and people do that too, adorn themselves with collars on their own neck, crazy hair style, tattoos and body piercings, for effect. To show what tough dogs they have, to shock people maybe with how they themselves appear? Or, I will concede, because they like the look. Has anyone seen a man in a business suit walking a dog with one of those collars on though , or a sweet little grey haired grandmother? :D I'm not anti all the collars , crazy hair style, tattoos and body piercings, or your funky colours, it's the modern trend amongst young people and my hair was several shades of funkiness when I was younger too, but I didn't go so far as rings in my nostril or lip, or tongue. LOL. I still feel that you don't need a spiked collar to make those big dogs appear tough, they are tough, and as I said, everyone to their own taste.

luckypenny
August 23rd, 2010, 11:01 PM
I've been looking at these photos over and over again trying to figure out why some of those collars appeal to me, especially the ones made of iron, and why others I didn't like at all. The iron ones are antiques. Photos 10 & 11 are modern collars. I'm assuming the dog in photos 3 & 4 is just modeling (you're correct 14+, the dog doesn't look comfortable most likely because he's unsure of it. You can also see someone nearby him in both photos, perhaps to keep him from getting hurt?). I found this website that explains a little of their history eg. where and how they were made. http://www.abruzzese.org/collar.htm Interesting from a historical perspective. But that's because I love antiques; they have so many stories to tell.

clm
August 23rd, 2010, 11:21 PM
I would suppose some of those collars would have been good protection against wolf pack attacks on those dogs used as livestock guardians. I agree they look horrible and I would be afraid of a dog not being able to lie down properly with it on or hurt itself scratching. As for protection from a bear.....one swipe of a bears paw could kill a dog, the collar isn't going to afford much protection there. I would hope there is no call for any dog to wear such collars nowdays.

clm

Goldfields
August 24th, 2010, 01:08 AM
Makes a lot more sense when you see it is wolves it's protecting the dog from. Rather clever really.

Luvmypitgirls
August 24th, 2010, 02:17 AM
Edited by Mod - issues with other members should be taken to Pm please

Goldfields
August 24th, 2010, 03:01 AM
Edited by Mod - issues with other members should be taken to Pm please
These collars are functional and interesting, even historic judging by LP's link. Some are well thought out devices and I do think it silly for people to use them for anything other than the purpose they were designed for. Can't honestly say I'd know anyone who would use one just to make an impression. I imagine though that our Canine Council Museum would like some for their collection.

GateKeeper
August 24th, 2010, 03:33 AM
Let's keep this thread on track please, issues between members should be taken to PM.

There is always the option of the Ignore List so you do not have to read posts by members you place on your list, you will find it under Settings & Options in your User CP.

Thanks

Goldfields
August 24th, 2010, 11:46 AM
Thank you, Gatekeeper. :)

Luvmypitgirls
August 24th, 2010, 12:13 PM
Thank you, Gatekeeper. :)

Yes thank you very much Gatekeeper.

browntown
September 8th, 2010, 06:01 PM
I'm a little surprised at the shocked reactions to these collars. Considering that a lot of the breeds we've grown to love started out as working dogs, and/or dogs who were bred to protect herds, how would you protect the dog who protects the herd? It's not as simple a building a barn to keep the animals in, that's like having a dog who never gets to leave the apartment. Even if you do have a barn, generally the herd is let out into a field to graze.

Most predators would go for the throat in their attempt to kill, I would most certainly put a collar such as the ones pictured to protect my working dog. When the herd is in a safe place, the collar would be removed, and the dog could rest. I wouldn't see it as being torturous.. I'd prefer to keep my dogs alive.