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My poor girl :(

cassiek
May 25th, 2010, 02:34 AM
My poor pup has really had a rough time of it lately.

Last Wednesday she was mauled by two large dogs at the offleash park. I proceeded to pull the dogs off of her, while the dog's owner stood there laughing :frustrated: I checked her over thoroughly once we got back in my truck to find that she had got a cut on her lower eyelid :( it wasn't too deep though, and healed fairly quickly.

This past weekend I went camping with a group of friends. The one couple I had never met before and had an unneutered Shiba Inu :wall: (at the not neutered part, not the breed). Of course they have done no training with this dog and he proceeds to growl and snap at every other dog and person that comes within a few feet of him (why they brought him camping when there is other dogs and people everywhere is beyond me). B actually did quite well... for the most part she ignored him or ran and hid from him.

Well Saturday evening the Shiba decided to take a round out of B. I pulled the little jerk off her and found her bleeding like crazy... he had bit off most of the pad on her front right paw. :yell: Of course my wimpy dog didn't even put a scratch on him. Luckily we had a nurse camping with us who helped me disinfect and wrap B's paw. Took her to the vet clinic today in Calgary. They wanted to do sutures, but were unsure with where it was located how they would work. So they bandaged her up and sent her home with pain killers and antibiotics as its a open wound and we are concerned it may become infected.

I feel like sending the $200 bill to the owners, but instead if they offer I will say no and tell them to keep the money to neuter their dog and we will call it even. :evil:

B is doing okay... she can not put pressure on her paw, so has become my three legged wonder. :laughing: Hopefully it heals soon and she can get back to her normal, bouncy self! :crazy:

ancientgirl
May 25th, 2010, 08:45 AM
What a jerk the guy at the park. I swear, people are such a-holes. I bet if the shoe was on the other foot he'd have given you all hell.

I hope the owners of the Shiba at the very least apologized! Seriously, what are people thinking?

I'm glad your girl is okay.

Longblades
May 25th, 2010, 09:27 AM
I fail to see why the Shiba owner should not pay your Vet bill. Perhaps insisting on that would help convince them of the need to better handle their dog.

Poor girl, I hope she is feeling better.

14+kitties
May 25th, 2010, 10:54 AM
Unfortunately telling them to keep the money to neuter the dog does not mean they will neuter the dog. It just means you have let them off the hook. Sometimes the only way people (who act irresponsibly like they did by bringing him to a park) learn is to may them pay. I would be sending them the bill pdq!!
The dog park incident - :wall::wall:
Sending :goodvibes: for a quick healing for your little one.

Chaser
May 25th, 2010, 11:06 AM
Poor girl :( Sounds like she has a great Momma looking after her! :goodvibes: for a speedy recovery, and I also think you should be sending the bill to the owners of the Shibu, along with a reminder that a neuter and some OB classes will likely save them money in the long run since the dog is destined to attack again if they don't act fast.

cassiek
May 25th, 2010, 12:31 PM
I was also thinking last night they probably won't get him neutered anyways, so I may just seek compensation for that vet bill (plus what my vet is going to charge me to change the bandage every few days until it is healed!).

They did apologize and acted like they felt bad, but it felt pretty empty to me. Best part was after he hurt B, they put the Shiba in their car and made him spend 5 hours in there saying he felt so humble and bad for what he did (um... dogs don't think the way us humans do, after 5 minutes he was probably like why the heck am I in this car?).

My SO works with the couple that we camped with that are mutual friends of us and the Shiba's owners, and he was going to bring up the vet bill to them today.

B is recovering good though, she's struggling to learn to kick back and relax as she is very much a go, go, go kind of dog but she will be okay :)

Chaser, my SO and I were talking about that yesterday... they really need to socialize this dog and get him in obedience classes ASAP. Today he bit a dog... what if tomorrow he bites a child? That could get him PTS, and IMO this dog with some obedience classes, socialization, and hard work (and yes, neutered!), could be a great dog.

Dog Dancer
May 25th, 2010, 03:53 PM
Poor sweet thing. I know Shadow had one of her pads bitten badly several years ago, it took a while to heal, but keeping it wrapped helped. Speedy recovery to your gentle girl.

Magicwildwolf69
May 25th, 2010, 04:00 PM
awww poor thing. you should make them pay for the bill! it was their dog that did it! hopefully it would get them to sink in their head to socialize and train the dog. and neuter of course. hope she's feeling better soon! any pics of the three legged wonder??? :D

cassiek
May 25th, 2010, 05:43 PM
Thanks for all the good wishes, guys.

I will post a pic of B my three legged wonder later on :D :laughing:

shibamom
May 25th, 2010, 09:14 PM
How outrageous! Those Shiba owners should absolutely pay that bill. Shibas can be quite dog aggressive and require a lot of socialization/firm handling. Very disappointing to hear about (yet another) irresponsible Shiba owner. I hope your poor girl recovers well.

cassiek
May 25th, 2010, 09:31 PM
Thanks, shibamom.

What an unfortunate situation... I feel bad for the Shiba most of all :( apparently, his owners have never even owned a dog before, not only did they pick a breed that requires firm handling (a few other Shiba owners I have talked to have mentioned this as well), but they bought him when he was 3 years old from a puppy mill where he was used as a stud. :frustrated:

He's a beautiful dog, but has a lot of behavioural issues, and these two are not an appropriate or suitable match for this dog. He is dog and people aggressive, runs away whenever he gets the chance, and is more or less a holy terror. They are the worst possible owners for this dog as they have no experience, know nothing about training, will not do obedience with him, will not neuter him etc. etc. etc. they are LAZY! :wall: and cannot see the consequences of their actions (or lack thereof).

They are clueless; this dog walks all over them demanding attention whenever he wants and they LET HIM. This dog has no respect for them, and they have no respect for the little fella.

:fingerscr they do the right thing and get him neutered and enroll in some obedience classes as a start so hopefully this fella does not end up PTS or in a shelter, being transferred from home to home to home.

Here's a pic of my B. She goes to my regular vet tomorrow for a check-up and a change of bandages. :dog: :pawprint:

Goldfields
May 25th, 2010, 11:06 PM
cassiek, your B is just lovely and I hope she recuperates well. Having had cattle dogs fight here I've found the worst thing you can do is try to pull them apart. If they are hanging on it only injures the other dog worse. We quickly learnt to straddle each dog from behind, grab their jaws and open them, and once the other dog was free, quickly grab their bodies and swing them away from each other. I know someone who has a cattle dog with maybe not even half of one ear and suspect that she pulled the attacking dog off it.
Of course I agree also that you shouldn't have to pay that bill, but then neither should we have had to pay a bill for saving one of our pet sheep savaged by a kelpie. It depends on the people involved though, doesn't it? Some have no conscience. The guy here wouldn't pay it. Good luck.

MyBirdIsEvil
May 26th, 2010, 05:04 AM
We quickly learnt to straddle each dog from behind, grab their jaws and open them, and once the other dog was free, quickly grab their bodies and swing them away from each other

Unfortunately depending on the dog and situation that can be dangerous and not always possible. Especially dogs that are bred with a lot of bite strength (mastiffs or most other large breeds, pit bulls, etc). My husband is 220 lbs and can't pull Bhekas jaws apart. When she plays tug with other dogs they can shake their heads ferociously and she just drags them around. I can imagine what would happen if she bit another dog or a person and decided not to let go, but luckily she doesn't have a mean bone in her.

You can't get all dogs jaws open by grabbing them and many dogs will bite you back if you do that. That's why people with experience tend to use breaker bars/sticks for that type of situation. You don't want to get your hand mauled off.

One thing I learned as far as pulling the dogs apart (and this really comes in handy if you're on your own) is to loop a leash around their haunches and pull. You can then tie them to something, such as a fence or tree if you don't have any help, and if the other dog keeps going for the dog you've tied (as we all know even if one dog didn't start it they will often try to go after the other) you do the same to the other dog. Then you can safely separate them from each other without risking as much injury to yourself.

If there are 2 of you, you each of you can grab a dog by the back end to separate them. You don't want to grab around the head with your hands (best to try to use some kind of object) because you can become badly injured.

-------------------

Anyway, on topic.

Cassiek, I hate to hear these kind of stories. I would definitely ask for the owner to pay for injuries. I'm not sure why they would take their aggressive/unsocialized dog camping. What were they thinking? :frustrated:

And the dog park thing - this is why I just don't take my dogs to the dog park. I know they'd love it, but I've encountered too many bad owners in various environments, even dog shows, to risk the dog park where dogs are off leash and have had who knows what kind of training and socialization.
Do you know who runs the dog park? I know at some dog parks if an aggressive dog is encountered them and the owners can be banned from the park. You can't prevent the injury that's already happened, but you can at least prevent someone elses dog from being injured. :(

Goldfields
May 26th, 2010, 11:58 AM
I don't think you can put a Shiba Inu in the same class as a Mastiff or Pitbull really. 10kg for a male, 8kg for a female, males 14 1/2 inches to 16 1/2 inches, females 13 1/2 to 15 1/2 inches. They weigh about the same as a sheltie. My ACD bitches were both 19 inches and around 24kg. I would have detached that dog the way I said, solely so it didn't do more damage, you see I'm not scared of being bitten , but I am of having a dog injured badly. If you show prick eared dogs for instance, one bad bite and tear on the ear can ruin it for showing.An injury on the foot would put you out of the ring for how long?? The point I was making really was that if you pull on a dog that doesn't want to let go, it is the other dog that suffers.

cassiek
May 26th, 2010, 02:47 PM
MBIE, that is a great idea of how to break up a dog fight by looping a leash around their haunches! :thumbs up I will have to try that next time.

Sorry, Goldfields, but I have to disagree with breaking up a dog fight by pulling the jaws apart. That seems fairly dangerous in my mind. :shrug: I understand wanting to avoid having a dog injured, but I think it might be a dangerous method to try for the average dog owner, who is afraid of getting bit. Your scenario and experience might work OK for this type of method, but I don't think the average dog owner can safely use such a technique.

I have always been taught to try to break up a fight first by throwing water, making a loud noise etc. to distract them, and if that didn't work pulling the dogs apart by picking them up by their back haunches. Of course, this may not be ideal if you are dealing with very large dogs, but for small to medium sized dogs it has worked well in my experience.

As for offleash dog parks... I have had nothing but good experiences with them, but I exercise a lot of caution. We only have 3 in the city I currently reside in, but I avoid the one that is the busiest... I can just forsee trouble happening and Brynn does not do well in big, excited groups of dogs. But they have their positives too... the socialization aspect is wonderful, and with three dogs I find it much easier letting them run to their hearts content then me trying to walk them on leashes.

Anyways back to B... I took her to my vet today who sold me the materials to re-wrap her bandage every couple of days. The cut actually looks quite a bit better and is healing nicely. Within a week she should be up and motoring again. :thumbs up I have sent an e-mail to the Shiba owners with the costs... they probably should pay for it all, but I politely asked that they at least cover half... its about $100 to cover half the bill, which I think is more than fair.

Will keep you all updated, and thanks again for all the warm wishes!

Dog Dancer
May 26th, 2010, 04:04 PM
Aww, B certainly has the "don't you feel sorry for me" look down pat. What a cutie she is. I'm glad to hear she's healing well.

ancientgirl
May 26th, 2010, 04:06 PM
I just want to give her a big hug! I'm glad she's doing better.:thumbs up

cell
May 26th, 2010, 05:22 PM
I am very careful about going into the dog park with Leo for these reasons, he's only 13 pounds and although he likes big dogs and loves to play with them, they don't always play nice usually he ends up trampled or becomes the target.

One dog park in particular near my house seems a magnet for people with big energetic dogs that they just let go to get exercise then usually not even watch them at all. After I saw a Am Bulldog fixate and then latch onto the face of a boston/husky and have it hold on for about 45 seconds while its owners try to pry it off and finally getting its jaws released only to have it them bit the owner of the dog it was biting, I have been even more cautious.
People with a dog who has bitten and not let go should be responsible and carry a break stick, or be more responsible and not take it to the dog park.
But people are dumb and oblivious so start making a mental note of the dogs you encounter and don't be afraid to leave when you see dogs that are questionable coming you way.

Hope your pup feels better soon, you should send the bill to the owner, or file a complaint, biting dogs are biting dogs, regardless of size or breed, if they bite once they will bite again and the owner needs a wake up call.

Goldfields
May 26th, 2010, 08:21 PM
cassiek wrote

Sorry, Goldfields, but I have to disagree with breaking up a dog fight by pulling the jaws apart. That seems fairly dangerous in my mind. I understand wanting to avoid having a dog injured, but I think it might be a dangerous method to try for the average dog owner, who is afraid of getting bit. Your scenario and experience might work OK for this type of method, but I don't think the average dog owner can safely use such a technique.

cassiek, seems to me after a life of working with and owning dogs and horses, people's fears are often worse than the scenario they fear. Vets and their staff wouldn't last long if they let fear of being bitten or kicked take over. And I'm here to protect my dogs, end of story(from brave vets who take liberties with ACD's too :D). If that involves wading into a dog fight, then so be it. If people aren't capable of physically being in control, then I think their dogs are like a lethal weapon, the biting breeds I mean. Hubby thinks the same, if they fear their dog or can't control it, they shouldn't own it. MyBirdIsEvil controls things her way, I do it mine because I don't want one dog dragging a chunk out of the other because it is being pulled and won't let go.

cassiek
May 26th, 2010, 10:12 PM
Good news! :thumbs up Almost immediately after I sent the e-mail to the Shiba's owners with the vet costs, they wrote back and offered to pay for the entire bill (even though I just asked for half). They are going to transfer the money into my bank account tonight. :thumbs up I am just glad B is feeling better... right now she is laying on the floor. I took her bandage off and am keeping an eye on her so she does not lick it, to let it air out a bit. ;)

I don't really agree with the term "biting breeds" all breeds can bite... I agree some may have stronger jaws, anatomical wise, but there aren't just certain breeds that bite... all do and have. I think how you break up a dog fight just depends on your dog(s). You know your own dog best... I have always found it works best for me to try to distract them first, then pull up on the dogs haunches. I have never pried a dog's jaws apart, but I haven't had to since I've had success with the previous methods I mentioned.

Luvmypitgirls
May 26th, 2010, 11:13 PM
cassiek, so glad to hear the shibu owners are going to compensate you, good for them, and hopefully they will get their dog neutered too.
Glad your pup is doing well :thumbs up

hazelrunpack
May 27th, 2010, 11:09 AM
I'm glad to hear they owners of the other dog have stepped up to the plate, Cassie! Quick recovery to your baby! :goodvibes:

Frenchy
May 27th, 2010, 12:01 PM
Good news! :thumbs up Almost immediately after I sent the e-mail to the Shiba's owners with the vet costs, they wrote back and offered to pay for the entire bill (even though I just asked for half).

:thumbs up glad to hear this !!

omg B is just adorable , her poor paw :( speedy recovery to her ! :goodvibes:

cassiek
May 27th, 2010, 12:08 PM
Thanks, Frenchy. I think B is pretty cute myself, but I suppose my opinion is somewhat biast :rolleyes: hehe.

I am really happy with how hassle free the whole situation turned out. I kind of expected that they might not cooperate or be too friendly about it, but they transferred the money into my account and were very good about it, so I'm happy :thumbs up we have mutual friends, so I certainly did not want to cause any tensions or problems.

She is actually putting weight on her foot today! Only when she is sitting or standing for a bit, but she will actually set it on the ground! I am sure she will be fine in no time.

I can not imagine having to go through a very serious injury (i.e. hit by car, broken bones, etc.) with my pups. I have been fortunate so far none of them have had any major injuries. I was so worried about B's paw... and it's just a paw, LOL. I knew it would be fine.

Thanks again for all the warm wishes everyone, your all too sweet! :goodvibes:

MyBirdIsEvil
May 27th, 2010, 12:17 PM
I don't think you can put a Shiba Inu in the same class as a Mastiff or Pitbull really. 10kg for a male, 8kg for a female, males 14 1/2 inches to 16 1/2 inches, females 13 1/2 to 15 1/2 inches. They weigh about the same as a sheltie. My ACD bitches were both 19 inches and around 24kg. I would have detached that dog the way I said, solely so it didn't do more damage, you see I'm not scared of being bitten , but I am of having a dog injured badly. If you show prick eared dogs for instance, one bad bite and tear on the ear can ruin it for showing.An injury on the foot would put you out of the ring for how long?? The point I was making really was that if you pull on a dog that doesn't want to let go, it is the other dog that suffers.

I'm not gonna threadjack. I just wanted to mention I'm not looping Shibas into the same class as a Mastiff or Pitbull. I'm talking dogs in general.

And no matter the breed, no expert, nor most people with years of experience, recommends prying a dogs jaws apart. You're the first person that claims to have years of experience yet recommends doing that, and it's not safe to give that type of advice to random people on message boards.

That's the last I'll say on that subject though since that's not the subject of this thread. People can take whichever advice they want, but I'd err for safety if it were me. A dog seriously injures someone, even the owner, and their dog can end up being destroyed. If animal control finds out, by the doctor reporting the bite, or any other factor, the dog can be labelled dangerous and destroyed, depending on city ordinances. Avoiding a serious injury is VERY important.

as for offleash dog parks... I have had nothing but good experiences with them, but I exercise a lot of caution. We only have 3 in the city I currently reside in, but I avoid the one that is the busiest... I can just forsee trouble happening and Brynn does not do well in big, excited groups of dogs. But they have their positives too... the socialization aspect is wonderful, and with three dogs I find it much easier letting them run to their hearts content then me trying to walk them on leashes.

I totally understand. I have large dogs though, and my dog fights back, who gets blamed? Possibly mine, and I can't risk that.

Glad to hear your pup is doing better and you were reimbursed :thumbs up

Hopefully this is a wake up call for them and maybe they will seek help and try to prevent this from happening again.

Frenchy
May 27th, 2010, 12:28 PM
And no matter the breed, no expert, nor most people with years of experience, recommends prying a dogs jaws apart.





yep , that would be very wrong and dangerous , both dogs will redirect the bite , to the person or dogs near. So basicly , it wouldn't end the fight / biting. Just make it worse IMO. :shrug:

It happened a few times at my house , with my own dogs and fosters. Nothing major but I was always able to stop them by a loud HEY and putting myself between them. Which is also not recommended :o

cassiek
May 27th, 2010, 07:10 PM
I don't mind threadjacking my own post, and may just do so, haha! :laughing:

But I tend to agree... I don't think prying a dog's jaws apart are a safe nor effective technique for most dog owners. Goldfields, I don't know your dogs or you very well, but if you have the experience and this method works for you, then by all means. We all know our capabilities and our dog's better than anyone else... however, I feel for the average dog owner, there are better techniques to recommend. Personally, I like the idea of trying to distract the dogs first (throwing water, a loud "HEY", or throwing keys at a hard surface to startle them) and then I will physically touch the dogs and will usually try to grab the most aggressive one by the haunches to pull them away. I will admit, I used to pull a dog fight apart by grabbing the collar but have since learned that can also be unsafe, and may only heighten the fight if unsuccessful.

Guess what... I came home today, let B out of her crate and she came BOUNDING across the house... I think she was just hamming it up for the last few days to get sympathy the brat :laughing: :rolleyes:

Frenchy
May 27th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Guess what... I came home today, let B out of her crate and she came BOUNDING across the house... I think she was just hamming it up for the last few days to get sympathy the brat :laughing: :rolleyes:

:laughing: good for B , hope her trick worked and got extra treats from it :p

aslan
May 27th, 2010, 09:36 PM
Guess what... I came home today, let B out of her crate and she came BOUNDING across the house... I think she was just hamming it up for the last few days to get sympathy the brat :laughing: :rolleyes:

noooooo it's her love for you is soooooo strong that it even overpowered the pain she was feeling in her poor booboo.

gotta say tho she really has the mommy i has an owie face down pat...

cassiek
May 28th, 2010, 12:17 AM
Yes, Aslan, she does have that face down quite well... I have to laugh when I meet new people and they (for some reason) are concerned that B may be aggressive... if only they knew just how much of a SUCK she is! :laughing: :rolleyes: That's okay, I wouldn't have it any other way!

I had a really good reply to this topic but beware the pack mentality on any of these forums. Much safer to not have an opinion, isn't it? I shall just go off and do my shopping, smiling at the idea of how easy some of you think it's be to split up fighting cattle dogs. Have a nice day everyone, pats for B, cassiek.

Goldfields, I hope I did not offend you, it certainly was not my intent. I was just explaing what works best for me to break up a dog fight, and I can appreciate everyone has their own methods and techniques. I certainly was not trying to belittle your methods, just that I wonder if for an average dog owner who may not have the know-how or experience you do, if prying apart a dog's jaws is the best method for them. And, most dog owners are not dealing with the dogs or scenarios you are... so a technique like pulling back on the haunches or throwing water can be successful for the average person... or not, it's hard to tell. You know I respect you and your opinion (as I do everyone's) and I certainly know nothing about how to split up a fight among cattle dogs! I appreciate your input and even if we have different views, its what works best for us... as I said, we know our own capabilities and I was not trying to gang up on you.

And... in regards to the pack mentality... I have also experienced this... I sometimes choose not to reply to certain topics simply because I do not want to deal with the backlash from it. With some users I feel it becomes a pissing match of whose right, and its just best to back out and 'agree to disagree'. I'm always very careful of what I post on here, especially because we are talking over the internet and its very easy for a friendly conversation to turn hostile with words! Anyways... that being said, I enjoy my time on pets.ca and have learnt alot! And as always, thank you again for all your warm thoughts for my gal. :grouphug:

Tundra_Queen
May 28th, 2010, 02:40 AM
Cassie, I'm so glad that sweet B is doing so much better! That is great! She is a sweetie and I'm glad the other dog people paid for the vet bill!

Seeing as the dog bit another dog maybe they should get one of those wire muzzles when their dog is outside the house.

Debbie

krdahmer
May 28th, 2010, 03:25 AM
Guess what... I came home today, let B out of her crate and she came BOUNDING across the house... I think she was just hamming it up for the last few days to get sympathy the brat :laughing: :rolleyes:

I don't know much about dogs....but that look on her face so looks like she's hamming it up.... "look what that big meanie did to me" with the big pretty eyes and all! :lovestruck::cloud9: hope she heals up quick!:goodvibes:

MyBirdIsEvil
May 29th, 2010, 12:22 AM
Goldfields, I know there's sometimes a pack mentality on this forum, but in regards to the how to break up a dog fight topic, I think most of our opinions are in regard to protecting the safety of the owners and the dogs.
If someone gives advice that I feel to be dangerous for the average dog owner, or their dog, I feel obligated to post otherwise.
So, I really can't feel sorry for having offended someone on THAT subject. I will apologize when it's in regard to simple differing of opinions regarding training methods, but I can't apologize for responding to advice that I feel to be an actual danger to people and their dogs.

If you feel that prying the jaws apart of your dogs is safe for you to do, then by all means, I can't stop you and you know the dangers of it when you engage in it yourself. But I find it irresponsible to give that advice, which could likely be dangerous if some inexperienced, unknowing reader decides to use it, in a public forum.

A lot of us do use tactics with our dogs that we feel comfortable with that may very well be dangerous on other dogs or in other situations (or even in our own), but WE know the risks and choose to take them. I don't choose to advise people on a public forum to use those tactics, as I'd hate to see someone get hurt, or have their dog destroyed due to a bite on a person.

I'd like to avoid hurt feelings and anger from/towards other posters, but I want people to understand how dangerous certain advice can be, given on this forum with no regard to who might read and use it.

So hopefully we can all still be on good terms, but if not, then I don't feel there's anything I can do to prevent it.

I hope that explains why me and probably several others posted against the advice given. It's not to attack other users methods, it's to prevent accidents for readers that may not realize the risk they're taking if they choose to use certain methods.

MyBirdIsEvil
June 1st, 2010, 12:11 AM
I'm not gonna respond to most of the post since I've already explained my point clearly.

As far as it being dangerous for the dog, I already posted this also:

and their dog can end up being destroyed. If animal control finds out, by the doctor reporting the bite, or any other factor, the dog can be labelled dangerous and destroyed, depending on city ordinances. Avoiding a serious injury is VERY important.

And I don't think I was insulting in any of my posts. I explained my point clearly and concisely, nothing else. I can't prevent someone feeling insulted just by me stating a different opinion.

As far as people having the intelligence to decide whether they should take certain advice or not, I don't think it has anything to do with that. I think it has to do with inexperienced people seeing advice from someone that claims to have years of experience and not knowing the risks. As well, there are a lot of people that may not realize their dog may very well bite them while going after another dog, because their dog may be generally docile with people.

If you're offended by several people not agreeing with you, I don't know what to say. You've posted advice that pretty much goes against the grain compared to advise given by various experienced dog owners and experts, so prepare to get responses that are the opposite of what you've said.:shrug:

There was no name calling or anything else, so I don't really see a point to getting offended. It's a public forum. People are not always going to agree with you and sometimes A LOT of people are going to disagree, and maybe strongly so. Oh well, it's just the nature of posting opinions and advice on a message board. The thread was more derailed by your taking offense to the differing opinions, rather than your original statement.

MyBirdIsEvil
June 1st, 2010, 05:20 PM
This is really becoming tedious.

ACDs are no different than other dogs when it comes to breaking up a fight. There are a bigger and smaller dogs, dogs with more bite strength, etc., but breaking up a dog fight is generally the same no matter what breed you're talking about. And these methods even go for breeds with a ton more bite strength and more incidence of aggression than the ACD. It doesn't matter because dogs generally fight the same, there are just differences in the seriousness of the fights.

Just about ANY experienced dog owner/behaviorist/trainer etc., will NOT give the advice you've given, due to potential/likelihood for serious injury to the owner. They will recommend pulling the dogs apart by the back legs (and yes I have used this method before), and if jaws must be pried open you don't use your hands, you use an item to do so, spray with water, or even citronella or pepper spray (harsh, but better than the dogs ripping each other apart) etc.
Grabbing jaws of fighting dogs with your hands is just a REALLY good way to get your hand ripped apart.

I'm not going to keep explaining this over and over again, so here are some links:

www.calgaryhumane.ca/Document.Doc?id=19 (sorry this is a pdf. link for quick view was really long)

http://www.k9korralobediencetrainingcenter.com/pet-care-tips/how-to-break-up-a-dog-fight/

http://www.saferpets.co.uk/safely-break-dog-fight.html

http://www.petresearch.net/2009/03/19/breaking-up-dog-fights

I would post more links, but they start to become redundant since they all pretty much say the same thing.

14+kitties
June 1st, 2010, 05:54 PM
Aaaaannnndddd............... to get the thread back on track........... Woof!!

cassiek- I am so glad B is starting to feel more her normal self. Continued healing! :fingerscr

cassiek
June 2nd, 2010, 02:21 AM
"cassiek jumped in bravely to try and save her dog, so good on her, although I'm waiting for someone to admit it was probably foolish trying to get two big dogs off B on her own."

Obviously this is directed at me... but I don't see how my actions were foolish, I had no choice. My dog was being mauled by two larger dogs, the owner was standing there laughing (when they could plainly see it was turning into a dangerous situation), there was no water or sprays or objects I could use to try to break up this fight, so I removed the aggressors from the situation. In fact, they were so surprised when I picked them up by their hindquarters, they immediately stopped. I don't see how this is foolish at all. :shrug: In fact, I have always been told it is smarter in a dog fight to remove the most aggressive dog.

Anyways, I think we have debated back and forth long enough and need to agree to disagree. Enough's enough. We each have our methods of breaking up a fight and so be it.

B is doing good... her foot is healing very slowly though. I'm having some troubles getting her to keep her bandage on when she is in her crate during the day. Although, I have been giving her raw bones, kongs, etc. and they have helped keep her distracted. I have been rubbing a little polysporin on her pad as well, that shouldn't hurt hey?

MyBirdIsEvil
June 2nd, 2010, 02:33 AM
Anyways, I think we have debated back and forth long enough and need to agree to disagree. Enough's enough. We each have our methods of breaking up a fight and so be it.

Yup. People will do what they do. I only posted in hopes that someone would be educated, whether it be the person my comments were directed at or not :shrug:
But don't worry, I'm done with that subject :p

B is doing good... her foot is healing very slowly though. I'm having some troubles getting her to keep her bandage on when she is in her crate during the day. Although, I have been giving her raw bones, kongs, etc. and they have helped keep her distracted. I have been rubbing a little polysporin on her pad as well, that shouldn't hurt hey?

Glad to hear she's doing good. :thumbs up

Has she been pulling on her bandage with her mouth? I've sprayed bitter apple on before to keep that from happening and it works well. It just has to be the actual bitter apple brand. I used the stuff from walmart one time and Walnut licked it up like it was ice cream. :laughing:

GateKeeper
June 2nd, 2010, 03:19 AM
Try to keep this thread on topic, civil and without resorting to rudeness. We would prefer not to have to close another thread because members can not remain polite.

14+kitties
June 2nd, 2010, 08:39 AM
You should read your links because in the first one it does say that if all else fails(or words to that effect) you will have to open the dog's mouth.

Indeedy it does. But, the rest of the statement says the best option is to force it open using a stick across the back. Not your hands. :shrug:

If a dog has latched onto another dog and has not responded to the loud noise, being pulled apart or sprayed, you will need to try to open his mouth. The best option would be to force a stick across the back of the dog’s mouth to attempt to pry it open.
It then goes on to say the last option is to use the collar or neck but to be aware that this can lead to a misdirected bite.

The largest majority of us are not and will probably never be in the position where we are constantly surrounded by a breed of dog that has been purposely bred to be aggressive in order to do it's job.

I think we are all missing something important here. It is quite obvious that the laws governing the use of dog parks need to change. There have been many stories on here since the opening of these parks complaining of aggressive dogs attacking. IMO if your dog is dog aggressive you have no right to be bringing it to a dog park unless you are prepared to have it under your control 100% of the time. That means never having it off leash as well. Just my :2cents:.

Once again - I am so glad B is healing so well cassiek.

aslan
June 2nd, 2010, 09:42 AM
Cassiek i'm glad to hear that B is still on the mend and doing well.

To the other two, if you'd like to continue your discussion would you kindly open your own thread and stop threadjacking this one.

DoubleRR
June 2nd, 2010, 10:10 AM
The largest majority of us are not and will probably never be in the position where we are constantly surrounded by a breed of dog that has been purposely bred to be aggressive in order to do it's job.

I do believe that is key here.

I think we are all missing something important here. It is quite obvious that the laws governing the use of dog parks need to change. There have been many stories on here since the opening of these parks complaining of aggressive dogs attacking. IMO if your dog is dog aggressive you have no right to be bringing it to a dog park unless you are prepared to have it under your control 100% of the time. That means never having it off leash as well. Just my :2cents:.

The "laws" at a municipal level are what "govern" [and I use that term loosely] dog parks. Therefore, they are only as good as the local bylaw officer. Our local park has signs saying no aggressive dogs, and all waste must be picked up. Bags and garbages provided. Only the users enforce either rule. As a small woman in my fifties, I have had to send idiots and their dogs home--sometimes they object strenously. I make it a habit to introduce myself and my dogs to any new person--so that later I have a name to go with the license plate of their vehicle if there is an issue.

Once again - I am so glad B is healing so well cassiek. So am I.!!:thumbs up

serenamlambe
June 2nd, 2010, 11:20 AM
I have been rubbing a little polysporin on her pad as well, that shouldn't hurt hey?

I've used a little polysporin on my pup when he's been cut by the groomer. It hasn't caused any problems, as far as I can tell!

Glad to hear B is doing well :)

Frenchy
June 2nd, 2010, 11:57 AM
I have been rubbing a little polysporin on her pad as well, that shouldn't hurt hey?

I'm afraid I can only answer this question if you post more pics of your girl ... you know , so we can see she's doing good , yep that's it ... :whistle:

:laughing: polysporin is fine for dogs :thumbs up

cell
June 2nd, 2010, 02:18 PM
Glad to hear your girl is healing well, dealing with a dog fight is a especially scary thing!

When I worked at the SPCA and we had a out back fenced area where the dogs were allowed to run there always had to be at least 2 people with the dogs in case of a dog fight so 2 people could grab the 2 main fighters by the hips and pull them apart, we were instructed to grab and pull with a spinning motion to essentially pull them apart and move their heads away from each other to break the concentration. Luckily we never had to do this since the dogs were always tested together on leash and assessed to make sure their personalities matched with their play groups.

Many fight breaking techniques really to require more then one person. So if no one is going to help you I completely understand doing whatever possible to break the fight. In the heat of the moment I am sure I wouldn't care too much about my own safety or the safety of a dog that was attacking mine, especially if the owner didn't feel they had to help out. At least my health care is free, is the joke I make (although it's not a funny matter).

One of Leo's good friends is a pug and his owner had him at the dog park and he was attacked by another dog. Needless to say his owner flipped his **it and was screaming "who's dog is this" and no one claimed the dog, so he had to kick the dog off his. Then the owner comes from OUTSIDE the park to say "I'm disabled it took me time to get here" what kind of answer is that?

In the end by going to a dog park you are putting a lot of trust in other people to control their dogs, and most people are not to be trusted.

cassiek
June 3rd, 2010, 01:32 AM
Hi all -

Thanks MBIE for the tip with the bitter apple spray... the emergency vet I had her into used it on her bandage and it worked really well! I may have to pick some up and try it... :thumbs up most of today she didn't wear it and she doesn't seem to lick at it anymore. Almost done all her meds! :)

It's healing so slowly! :( But it's coming... it's not just the paw pad that got ripped off eitheir... there is a puncture wound actually in her paw! Ouch! :cry: Ah well, she's a tough one!

And Frenchy... you don't have to ask me twice to post more pics! :D I will get some up here tomorrow! :lovestruck:

cassiek
June 3rd, 2010, 11:47 AM
I have pm'ed Marko in hopes of closing this thread ASAP.

I opened this thread to receive some warm wishes and thoughts for my girl who was injured in a dog fight, and it has spun out of control. While I don't mind taking the thread off topic and I believe some valid points were made, it has ended up becoming a battle of who is right and some feelings have been very hurt in the process.

I'm only 25 years old, and I don't know the ages of everyone else on here, but we are all adults and this thread has become very childish. There is nothing wrong with bowing out gracefully and agreeing to disagree.

I thank you who did offer your warm thoughts, and am happy that Brynn is recovering well.