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how long is too long?

Sew-sew-steve
April 18th, 2010, 10:05 AM
im always contemplating scenarios for when i get a GSD (later on when i have my own house, car, etc..etc..), like where would i put him, what would i buy, how would i do this, how would i do that. im really thinking about it, because i know how much of a responsibility a dog is compared to a cat. but i love dogs way more than cats.

anyways, i was wondering.

if it was a nice, warm/cool day. how long is too long when keeping a dog in a car with the windows cracked enough to keep his head from going out?

i understand theres the food, washroom issue.

but how long is too long?

also, what about days where the temperature is under 10 degrees? im guessing you could keep it in longer?

dont worry, on any day where its above 20 degrees C i would not leave it in the car. wayyyyyyyyyyy too hot.

also, what temperatures are a no, and a yes?
anyhow, i'd really like a thorough answer :D

Etown_Chick
April 18th, 2010, 01:22 PM
Steve,
Can I ask you to clarify something? If you have your own house, why not keep the dog there? Why keep him in the car?
In the summer, it's too hot (cars heat up to horrible temps, even if it seems nice on the outside).
In the winter it's too cold.
At any time of the year, I can't see the dog being happy in a car.
Please help me understand this. THanks!

Stinkycat
April 18th, 2010, 01:31 PM
In canada there is a law in the summer you can't leave any pet in the car. In the winter your can't leave a dog outside without a proper doghouse.

I've left our pup in the car while I run into a store, maximum 30 minutes, plus I never take her when it's hot out, only cloudy or rainy. It gets REALLY hot in a car in a short period of time, I wouldn't ever leave a dog in the car during sunny weather.

chico2
April 18th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Steve,are you serious:confused:
Dogs and cats are NO different,cats need just as much love,affection and care as dogs do.
What will happen to the cat(in your avatar),once you get a GSD??
I know they can live happily together,with proper introductions,but if you don't love your cat,will he be disposable:confused:

Marcha
April 18th, 2010, 10:29 PM
Would you still be living in Kuwait Steve?

If so, then no time is suitable for a dog in a car. Even if it's 10C outside, and the sun is shining, the temps in a car, even with all the windows open, can go beyond 30C quite easily. Would you have underground parking, or is it roadside/ parking lot? But all that aside, keeping a dog in a car would be a last resort, not a regular thing, and ONLY if the temperature in the car can be kept below 20C. Keeping windows open won't work for that. To give you an example, even here on the West Coast of Canada, the other day it was 12C outside. But in the car the temperature was 25C after an hour when parked, in a semi-shaded area.

Also, would you be considering a pup or an adult? Pups overheat much more easily than adults, even if it's inside a house. You'd have to be home much of the day with a pup - they need to pee and poo regularly, and in warmer climates, they need to be monitored for overheating.

What provisions would be be able to provide for cool areas? Would your home have AC? Even an adult dog in a climate like Kuwait would require plenty of time in a cool room. Remember that a dog only sweats through the cushions on its paws and by panting. They would overheat in no time if there is no adequate cooling.

So perhaps you want to elaborate a bit more on your situation or plans?

14+kitties
April 18th, 2010, 10:46 PM
Steve,are you serious:confused:
Dogs and cats are NO different,cats need just as much love,affection and care as dogs do.
What will happen to the cat(in your avatar),once you get a GSD??
I know they can live happily together,with proper introductions,but if you don't love your cat,will he be disposable:confused:

Here you go chico. Maybe this will let you understand the situation.
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=69388

MyBirdIsEvil
April 19th, 2010, 12:49 AM
I would never leave a dog in the car with a window cracked unless it was cold enough outside for me to sit in the car with the windows all the way up and be completely comfortable. Usually I never leave the dogs in the car unless the A/C Is running, and it's never more than 15 mins. In the winter I might leave them for a few with the windows up, but it's usually not real cold here. I'm not big on leaving dogs in the car either way, usually I leave them at home. Only time I do it is if I'm out with them and have to run in the gas station or something.

Either way, why would you even get a dog if leaving it in the car for extended periods is a worry? If you love dogs so much wouldn't you be taking it places with you and NOT leaving it in the car? And if you're going somewhere where it's a concern why would the dog be with you anyway? :confused:
A dog is like a child in that respect, if you wouldn't leave the child there then you shouldn't leave the dog there. If you have to ask what an ok temp to leave a child in the car and for how long is, I'd venture to say you're not responsible enough for a dog either...

chico2
April 19th, 2010, 08:35 AM
14+,I see what you mean,my memory failed me(again and again:frustrated:),
I apologize to Steve,but my feelings about dogs/cats is the same,whether you live in Kuwait or elsewhere.
Steve did a good thing rescuing SSS:cat:

14+kitties
April 19th, 2010, 08:58 AM
Steve did a good thing rescuing SSS:cat:

Except SSS has disappeared. Steve is giving it a two week waiting period to make any decisions.

Sew-sew-steve
April 19th, 2010, 09:09 AM
Steve,are you serious:confused:
Dogs and cats are NO different,cats need just as much love,affection and care as dogs do.
What will happen to the cat(in your avatar),once you get a GSD??
I know they can live happily together,with proper introductions,but if you don't love your cat,will he be disposable:confused:

no, i didnt mean it like that. cats are WAY more self maintanance then dogs. i mean, you can leave a bowl outside for a cat, and have it eat when its hungry and stop, with dogs, you have to monitor it. water has to be changed with cats regularly as with dogs, but you see the difference there. plus the washroom, cats go and come as they please, witha dog, you gotta go and take it out on a walk.
also, cats wouldnt dirty up the place as much as a dog IMO.
i never said i dont love my cat ???? LOL. besides, SSS is a cat i cant even describe, i dont know if im gonna let him run free or not-- anyway, thats for another place to disscuss.
btw, by the time i get the GSD, that cat will most likely be dead, seeing as how i'd most likely get the GSD when im like 25+

Would you still be living in Kuwait Steve?

If so, then no time is suitable for a dog in a car. Even if it's 10C outside, and the sun is shining, the temps in a car, even with all the windows open, can go beyond 30C quite easily. Would you have underground parking, or is it roadside/ parking lot? But all that aside, keeping a dog in a car would be a last resort, not a regular thing, and ONLY if the temperature in the car can be kept below 20C. Keeping windows open won't work for that. To give you an example, even here on the West Coast of Canada, the other day it was 12C outside. But in the car the temperature was 25C after an hour when parked, in a semi-shaded area.

yes it would most likely be in kuwait. but in the summer, like this time, i wouldnt leave it in the car without the AC on for more than 10 minutes, it would only be a last resort like you said. thats amazing though, i thought people left their dogs inside the car when going to the groceory stores all the time, and you can easily reach over an hour shopping. anyhow, thanks for the clarification.

Also, would you be considering a pup or an adult? Pups overheat much more easily than adults, even if it's inside a house. You'd have to be home much of the day with a pup - they need to pee and poo regularly, and in warmer climates, they need to be monitored for overheating.

no i'd definetly get a pup, because then i could really build a bond with him, i want him to see me as a friend from when he was young, and not someoone new that he takes orders from. yes i know dogs can get along with new owners very well, but its nothing like being raised by your owner IMO. but i would never let a pup in the car alone, only an adult.

What provisions would be be able to provide for cool areas? Would your home have AC? Even an adult dog in a climate like Kuwait would require plenty of time in a cool room. Remember that a dog only sweats through the cushions on its paws and by panting. They would overheat in no time if there is no adequate cooling.

well, i wouldnt leave them inside the main area of the house, i'd have like... a room within the courtyard for the dog that has an AC and stuff.

So perhaps you want to elaborate a bit more on your situation or plans?

i should because obviously (As always) im missunderstood :rolleyes: not by you.

this is like i stated in my OP that im always thinking of what to do, so im getting ideas of what to do. like doing light research. i know it will be a lot of responsibility but im ready to take it. this is for when i have my own house, which is probably around the age of 25+ not anytime now, so im just doing research


I would never leave a dog in the car with a window cracked unless it was cold enough outside for me to sit in the car with the windows all the way up and be completely comfortable. Usually I never leave the dogs in the car unless the A/C Is running, and it's never more than 15 mins. In the winter I might leave them for a few with the windows up, but it's usually not real cold here. I'm not big on leaving dogs in the car either way, usually I leave them at home. Only time I do it is if I'm out with them and have to run in the gas station or something.

ok, this is what i had in mind, errands that are shortlived. nothing too long. but i wanted to know how long is too long though.

Either way, why would you even get a dog if leaving it in the car for extended periods is a worry? If you love dogs so much wouldn't you be taking it places with you and NOT leaving it in the car? And if you're going somewhere where it's a concern why would the dog be with you anyway? :confused:
A dog is like a child in that respect, if you wouldn't leave the child there then you shouldn't leave the dog there. If you have to ask what an ok temp to leave a child in the car and for how long is, I'd venture to say you're not responsible enough for a dog either...

im not even gonna waste my time with explaining the reason why i asked about this. it feels like you havent even read my first post.. i ask a question, instead, i get mutliple critisizing questions instead of a regular, clear, and effective answer.

tell me, did i offend you by asking whether its ok to keep the dog in a car? i mean i DONT know as much as you guys do, so im trying to learn, i dont see anything wrong with asking a quesiton even if it ends up with you looking stupid if its for the best for your pet.

i appologize in advance if i came off too strong or if i offended you (even if it was by asking this question), sometimes i get frusterated with the answers i get on here, and im sure sometimes some people here get frusterated with me. w.e.

14+,I see what you mean,my memory failed me(again and again:frustrated:),
I apologize to Steve,but my feelings about dogs/cats is the same,whether you live in Kuwait or elsewhere.
Steve did a good thing rescuing SSS:cat:

thanks for the support.

Sew-sew-steve
April 19th, 2010, 09:17 AM
Steve,
Can I ask you to clarify something? If you have your own house, why not keep the dog there? Why keep him in the car?
In the summer, it's too hot (cars heat up to horrible temps, even if it seems nice on the outside).
In the winter it's too cold.
At any time of the year, I can't see the dog being happy in a car.
Please help me understand this. THanks!

the house im currently living in does not belong to me, and i do not have permission to bring a dog within its peremetres lol.

so this is a dream i have for when im around 25+ and i can maintain a good enough income to buy a house, a car, a GSD and be able to maintain each of their qualities.

its only for when im driving around, because i'd take my dog with my everywhere, so thats why i ask how long is too long.

14+kitties
April 19th, 2010, 09:20 AM
btw, by the time i get the GSD, that cat will most likely be dead, seeing as how i'd most likely get the GSD when im like 25+.

Ok, I'm very confused. I was under the (misguided?) notion you were 20? IF SSS is not dead already, being as he disappeared last week some time, then why would you think he would be dead in five years? Cats can have a lifespan of 20+ in the right conditions. IE: being looked after properly.
Y'know, IMO to be a responsible pet owner one needs to do some research into the pet they are going to have and what they need to do to keep that pet safe and happy. You don't just put down a bowl for a cat and leave it, or leave the cat to it's own wanderings. That is how they get injured or killed. :shrug:

Sew-sew-steve
April 19th, 2010, 09:27 AM
Ok, I'm very confused. I was under the (misguided?) notion you were 20? IF SSS is not dead already, being as he disappeared last week some time, then why would you think he would be dead in five years? Cats can have a lifespan of 20+ in the right conditions. IE: being looked after properly.
Y'know, IMO to be a responsible pet owner one needs to do some research into the pet they are going to have and what they need to do to keep that pet safe and happy. You don't just put down a bowl for a cat and leave it, or leave the cat to it's own wanderings. That is how they get injured or killed. :shrug:

my bad, i calculated it the wrong way, for some reason i thought 20 + 20 = 30 :S

my bad, anyway, nvm about the cat being dead.

yes i want the best for my cat. its not like im sitting and praying its dead. i didnt leave the cat to go outside, i've made it quite clear i do my best to keep it inside, but what can i do, we DO need to leave the house at one point or another, everyone tries to remember to make sure it stays inside, but what can i do? sometimes my dad forgets and it gets outside. i have a feeling your unhappy with how im dealing with this. if so, do tell me what to do instead of holding back and letting a little bit of your dissapointment out.

like i said SSS is my first cat, i knew virtually nothing about cats, and i learned a lot more than i did before i had him. i rescued him afterall. his life now is better then it was before, he has a much better chance at surviving then he did before.

also, does me asking about GSD not constitute as a research before getting an animal?


how do my words end up being taken out of context, i dont know.

Longblades
April 19th, 2010, 10:09 AM
Usually I never leave the dogs in the car unless the A/C Is runningI am going to assume you have some way of locking the window position in your car, or you don't have power windows. But, just an alert for folks, in my car my dog could step on the power window button and since the car is running he could lower the window and get out. I actually got a panic call from my Vet wanting to borrow our live trap when a lady's cat did just this and escaped from her car. They did get him back. I'm sure it's a once in a million, weird, freaky thing but it can happen.

Also, I think the law on leaving pets in cars varies from municipality to municipality. But some have bylaws on leaving your car running, meaning you cannot. Just my luck, I'd get caught for that.

Frenchy
April 19th, 2010, 10:38 AM
There's absolutely no reason to leave a dog in a car. Unless you're taking your dog somewhere , and you have to stop for a quick errand at the store.

too many bad things can happen , why would you chance it ? :confused:

shibamom
April 19th, 2010, 10:45 AM
In my years as a 911 operator, I have personally dealt with:

1. Dogs overheating and dying "while doing a short errand"
2. People standing around watching the dog dying in the car because they feared criminal charges if they broke the window to let the dog out
3. The dog stepping on power windows to get out
4. People stealing the vehicle without regard for a dog (or INFANT) being in the car (dogs are not as mean as you'd hope they would be to an intruder, and people on drugs simply don't care if a dog is in the car. Often, they are too high to look and see if there is a baby).

Now, in Kuwait, #3 & #4 are probably not an issue (in my experience in the Middle East, power windows are not common, and auto theft under sharia law is not nearly as common).

However, #1 & #2 are. First, the obvious climate. It's just too hot and air conditioning/time in the heat for a "naked" person who can sweat is just not the same for a furry GSD. Second, as you (SSS) are likely aware of, people do not harbour the same feelings towards dogs in Islam that those of us in North America do. If for whatever reason your dog goes into distress, I highly doubt any passerby will assist your dog (assuming they are Muslim). It's a bit complicated but in general, Islam does not allow for dogs as companion pets - only guard dogs, and they must not be in the home. So, if something happens and your dog needs help outside your courtyard/compound - will anyone help it?? Just being realistic here if something should happen.

Sew-sew-steve
April 19th, 2010, 11:20 AM
In my years as a 911 operator, I have personally dealt with:

1. Dogs overheating and dying "while doing a short errand"
2. People standing around watching the dog dying in the car because they feared criminal charges if they broke the window to let the dog out
3. The dog stepping on power windows to get out
4. People stealing the vehicle without regard for a dog (or INFANT) being in the car (dogs are not as mean as you'd hope they would be to an intruder, and people on drugs simply don't care if a dog is in the car. Often, they are too high to look and see if there is a baby).

Now, in Kuwait, #3 & #4 are probably not an issue (in my experience in the Middle East, power windows are not common, and auto theft under sharia law is not nearly as common).

do you mean power windows as in, you push down on a button and the window rolls down? if so, then your mistaken lol. i dont know when your most recent visit was in kuwait, but we are very up to date with technology now. i mean, i see ferrari's, lambo's, hummers, jags, aston martins, range rovers, you name it! all on a regular basis. so, if thats what you ment with power windows, then yes there are power windows here lol.

However, #1 & #2 are. First, the obvious climate. It's just too hot and air conditioning/time in the heat for a "naked" person who can sweat is just not the same for a furry GSD. Second, as you (SSS) are likely aware of, people do not harbour the same feelings towards dogs in Islam that those of us in North America do. If for whatever reason your dog goes into distress, I highly doubt any passerby will assist your dog (assuming they are Muslim). It's a bit complicated but in general, Islam does not allow for dogs as companion pets - only guard dogs, and they must not be in the home. So, if something happens and your dog needs help outside your courtyard/compound - will anyone help it?? Just being realistic here if something should happen.

ok, lets remember, i dont actually have a dog, just asking. i really appreciate everyone replying, this was a real eye opener. despite knowing not to leave the dog in the car in kuwaits summer time, i didnt know winter would be bad too.


honestly, i dont think so. i mean, if some people in north america fail to help out a dog in some strangers car, i doubt they'd do it in kuwait.
BUT, i will say that just because they are not allowed to be a pet or companion, it doesnt mean you cant help them. besides, if you do, its considered very kind, and you get a great deal of good deeds. i wouldnt have picked SSS up if it wasnt for my religious beliefs and my love for animals. so its not frowned upon to help out an animal, its quite the opposite. but even if it was a cat, or a bird, in general, i doubt kuwaitis would go the distance, unless they knew the person. to be honest, i cant actually say for sure, its up in the air.

for the record, most people in islam dont see dogs the same way as westerners is because its saliva is considered very dirty.
also, the mere presence of a dog repels angels.

this is part of our belief. so thats some of the reasons as to why dogs are a no-no in islam.


anyhow, once again, thank you for the replies.
i've learned something new once again. :thumbs up

catlover2
April 19th, 2010, 12:05 PM
And so did I. I've met some dogs I consider as being angels. Just look at those guide dogs for the blind :angel:, etc.

chico2
April 19th, 2010, 04:45 PM
Steve,I did not know SSS was gone:(I hope he comes back:fingerscr
I am sorry Islam considers animals dirty,but I guess that's just the way it is..
My 3 cats are probably cleaner than most humans.

I actually know a couple catholics who consider animals dirty and only good for meat,would never dream of letting a dog in the house,much less a cat,needless to say,we are no longer friends.

If this is your belief,why would you even consider having a dog,a dog belongs in the house with his family and in my view so does a cat.

BenMax
April 19th, 2010, 04:55 PM
Based on the religious beliefs, why even bother having a dog?

One question: If you own a dirty dog, would that make you a dirty human? How does this work?

14+kitties
April 19th, 2010, 06:48 PM
im not even gonna waste my time with explaining the reason why i asked about this. it feels like you havent even read my first post.. i ask a question, instead, i get mutliple critisizing questions instead of a regular, clear, and effective answer.

tell me, did i offend you by asking whether its ok to keep the dog in a car? i mean i DONT know as much as you guys do, so im trying to learn, i dont see anything wrong with asking a quesiton even if it ends up with you looking stupid if its for the best for your pet.

i appologize in advance if i came off too strong or if i offended you (even if it was by asking this question), sometimes i get frusterated with the answers i get on here, and im sure sometimes some people here get frusterated with me. w.e.

Ok, clear, effective answers to your original question - and lots of reading to do which will further your education when it comes to having a dog. :thumbs up

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/petdebate/msg1116142123843.html

http://dogs.suite101.com/article.cfm/dogs_and_heat_stroke

http://ndrc.tripod.com/warmand.htm

Those sites should do the trick.

Now for other interesting reading that will help make you a responsible dog owner. :thumbs up

http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/breederinfo8.htm

http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/newdogowner.htm

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2106&aid=1543

http://life.familyeducation.com/dogs/pets/45635.html

MyBirdIsEvil
April 19th, 2010, 07:02 PM
Hmmm, not sure how my comment was offensive :rolleyes:. The questions I stated are questions you should be asking yourself anyway.

The point was, would you leave a baby in a warm or cold car with the windows cracked? Probably not. You don't leave a dog in a warm or cold car with the windows cracked either.

As far as heat and cold tolerance, that depends on breed. We can tell you what temps are absolutely not ok, but how can we tell you what your individual dog can tolerate as far as more moderate temps?

Some dogs can't even tolerate temperatures that are comfortable to you. German Shepherds have a pretty thick undercoat and don't do well with heat. I wouldn't leave one in a warm car at all, ever.

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 09:32 AM
And so did I. I've met some dogs I consider as being angels. Just look at those guide dogs for the blind :angel:, etc.

a dog used for something like that, wouldnt be against islam. a guard dog for your live crops etc... is ok. a dog for no reason is not ok. its not like "my kid wants a friend, so i bought him a dog" because that wouldnt count as a good reason.
dogs are great animals, they are obedient, smart, loyal. all animals are created by god, so god wouldnt make an animal and have it treated like garbage.
yes we arent allowed to keep dogs for unecissary reasons, but it doesnt mean people can beat it or w.e. so dont get the wrong idea.

Steve,I did not know SSS was gone:(I hope he comes back:fingerscr
I am sorry Islam considers animals dirty,but I guess that's just the way it is..
My 3 cats are probably cleaner than most humans.

ISLAM DOES NOT CONSIDER ANIMALS DIRTY!!! no im not shouting at you, im just trying to make that statement as clear as possible.

it doesnt consider dogs dirty, its the saliva of the dog that is dirty. it doesnt go away from just soap and water, you need sand with a little bit of water aswell. its been scientifically proven that even at high temperatures, dog saliva is uncleanable. EXCEPT if you use sand with some water, followed by soap and water.

I actually know a couple catholics who consider animals dirty and only good for meat,would never dream of letting a dog in the house,much less a cat,needless to say,we are no longer friends.

again, animals in islam are not considered dirty, the man all muslims most respect (Muhammed PBUH) used to have a companion who LOVED cats, so much so that when ever he would leave his house he'd have a kitten in his sleeve. Muhammed (PBUH) himself used to give a cat some food when he used to eat. so please, dont think my religion sees animals as dirty. animals are beautiful, even dogs, but for certain reasons, dogs are a no no.

If this is your belief,why would you even consider having a dog,a dog belongs in the house with his family and in my view so does a cat.

well if you think about it, animals were intially in the wild, their physicall characteristics are to help them in the wild, their diet consist of foods they'd eat in the wild, their behaviour is how they would have in the wild, etc.. etc... so even if i got a dog, and had it within the courtyard, it would be completely fine.

but to answer your question, i want to just own one dog, and thats that. i just love them so much. if i dont get a dog, im getting a savannah cat as a type of consolation

Based on the religious beliefs, why even bother having a dog?

i just really want one. look at christianity for EX. your not allowed to have sex before marriage, so why do many people do it on the first date?

One question: If you own a dirty dog, would that make you a dirty human? How does this work?

dog saliva is dirty. and its very hard to get out. thats just one reason as to why we cant have one. the main one is that we were simply told not to own a dog without a necissary reason. but if you do own a dog (clean or dirty, or normal w.e.) it will always repel angels. angels dont like dogs. they are very sensitive, they dont like foul smells, irritating noises, music, fighting, negativity, etc... etc... so dogs are one of the things that repel angels.

its amazing how im always finding myself explaining something about my religion lol.



Hmmm, not sure how my comment was offensive :rolleyes:. The questions I stated are questions you should be asking yourself anyway.

it wasnt as much offensive as frusterating. because i wanted a thorough and clear answer. you just asked more questions then did answering, or actually.. .you didnt asnwer me at all, you just asked me questions, and then brought up the similarities between a dog and a child, and said i wouldnt be able to be responsible if i couldnt use common sense. yes i understood your point, but your point was "use your common sense" basically, so you werent helpful at all. im sorry if i offended you, but those are my feelings, and im just being honest.
BUT, i will say you HAVE answered me with this post, all i wish is that you just told me what you said in this post earlier. thats all i wanted, just an answer.

The point was, would you leave a baby in a warm or cold car with the windows cracked? Probably not. You don't leave a dog in a warm or cold car with the windows cracked either.


As far as heat and cold tolerance, that depends on breed. We can tell you what temps are absolutely not ok, but how can we tell you what your individual dog can tolerate as far as more moderate temps?

Some dogs can't even tolerate temperatures that are comfortable to you. German Shepherds have a pretty thick undercoat and don't do well with heat. I wouldn't leave one in a warm car at all, ever.

thank you for your answers everyone

and 14+kittens thanks for the links :D

also, today when i was in the groceory store parking lot, i was walking by and i seen a jeep with all of its windows opened halfway, with three dogs barking inside of it. they were all like, a short...heighted breed. they almost look like collies, but can be brown, and white. there were two white ones, and one brown one in front. they were all barking.

i was worried after what all of you had told me could happen, so i was wondering what idiot would leave it outside in this heat. i mean, it was atleast 25 degrees outside.

crazy coincidence. good thing the windows werent closed, i might have broken them.

Longblades
April 20th, 2010, 10:25 AM
also, today when i was in the groceory store parking lot, i was walking by and i seen a jeep with all of its windows opened halfway, with three dogs barking inside of it. they were all like, a short...heighted breed. they almost look like collies, but can be brown, and white. there were two white ones, and one brown one in front. they were all barking.

i was worried after what all of you had told me could happen, so i was wondering what idiot would leave it outside in this heat. i mean, it was atleast 25 degrees outside.

crazy coincidence. good thing the windows werent closed, i might have broken them.Since you were speaking in degrees centigrade in your first post I assume you are saying it was 25C? And the windows were only down halfway? That car could really be much hotter inside than 25C. Here's what I would and have done. I wouldn't leave my dog in my car in that temperature while I grocery shop, which for me would be at least 1/2 hour. Depending on how long I intended to be myself, and realizing the other car might have been there long before I got there, I would write down the make and license number. In 10 minutes I ask the store staff what their policy is, some do have one and can send a security guard. I have had them make an announcement on the PA system. Failing that I have called the humane society.

In one case where the dog was alert but not moving around much, which usually dogs do when a strange person peers in the window at them, I did not wait the ten minutes but called right way. The owner came out before humane folks got there and he was not very pleased with me and he left. I don't know what happened then but I did report his car.

Was the car gone when you finished shopping?

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 10:36 AM
Since you were speaking in degrees centigrade in your first post I assume you are saying it was 25C? And the windows were only down halfway? That car could really be much hotter inside than 25C. Here's what I would and have done. I wouldn't leave my dog in my car in that temperature while I grocery shop, which for me would be at least 1/2 hour. Depending on how long I intended to be myself, and realizing the other car might have been there long before I got there, I would write down the make and license number. In 10 minutes I ask the store staff what their policy is, some do have one and can send a security guard. I have had them make an announcement on the PA system. Failing that I have called the humane society.

In one case where the dog was alert but not moving around much, which usually dogs do when a strange person peers in the window at them, I did not wait the ten minutes but called right way. The owner came out before humane folks got there and he was not very pleased with me and he left. I don't know what happened then but I did report his car.

Was the car gone when you finished shopping?

yes i ment degrees C when i was stating the temperature.

im actually a supervisor in the supply department, so i was heading back to work actually. when i got back out, the car wasnt there. the dogs looked very alert, all on their feet, acting a little protective actually.
very very random to be honest. first time i see it in kuwait. im guessing it was a white person, because there's a lot of white people here, and i occasionally see them inside shopping. the store i work at is quite popular.

anyhow, thats a good idea, im gonna do that next time. its quite sad. i mean, i'd expect more from a westerner. arabs, not so much, they arent dog oriented. so they dont really know the yes and no's, but im quite sure a westerner would have a better chance of knowing more.

i got out a few hours later, i figured they'd come back quick, next time though ill stick around for ten minutes and then go inside and make an announcement if they arent back fast enough, or if the dog shows signs of fatigue.


but theres no humane society for animals here, or atleast i dont think, theres a clinic and stuff, but they wouldnt arrest anyone for anything. which is sad. because in islam if you would torture an animal you could very well go to hell... no lie.

for example, its been said that a lady went to hell because she tortured a cat.
another went to heaven because she seen a thirsty dog, and climbed down a well to get the dog water.

so animals have their rights in my religion.

excuse me for speaking about my religion a lot on an irrelevant subject, but what can i do? i dont want anyone to see my religion as the reason for carelessness for animals.

BenMax
April 20th, 2010, 10:55 AM
SSS - excuse our ignorance if you will in regards to your religion - the do's and don'ts. It is not meant to offend but to understand.

Half my family is from India. There is every religion under the sun: Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus and Muslems. Unfortunately our Muslem family members have no dealings with the rest of the family...maybe because we all have dogs?:shrug:.

I have many wants as well. What I want may not be in the best interest of the animals I wish to have and therefore I do not have. For instance: I want a horse but I know that the possibility of re-homing may be great and therefore I do not own one. I guess I personally don't understand why have something (regardless of what it is) and know that it is against what my family would accept or knowing that this commitment may not be long term.

Longblades
April 20th, 2010, 10:56 AM
first time i see it in kuwaitSorry, didn't realize you are in Kuwait now. My response is for me, in Canada. You certainly would know better how to proceed there.

You know, just as an aside, does anybody there breed GSD? This might seem like a crazy analogy but when my OH worked in a provincial tree nursery pains were taken to ship trees grown in the same "forest zone" to the zone they were going to planted. Northern Ontario grown seedlings generally do not do well in S. Ont. even if they are the same species. Why shouldn't the same idea help with finding a GSD already acclimated to the heat of Kuwait by dint of all it's forebears being bred there? Or at least the most recent generations? Is this a screwy idea?

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 11:23 AM
Sorry, didn't realize you are in Kuwait now. My response is for me, in Canada. You certainly would know better how to proceed there.

You know, just as an aside, does anybody there breed GSD? This might seem like a crazy analogy but when my OH worked in a provincial tree nursery pains were taken to ship trees grown in the same "forest zone" to the zone they were going to planted. Northern Ontario grown seedlings generally do not do well in S. Ont. even if they are the same species. Why shouldn't the same idea help with finding a GSD already acclimated to the heat of Kuwait by dint of all it's forebears being bred there? Or at least the most recent generations? Is this a screwy idea?

i had to read your post a couple a times to comprehend.

um, yeah there is a lot of GSD breeding here actually. theres americans from the army that train GSD's, theres americans that are just here to be here and are affiliated with dog training aswell.

the thing is, i realised this after i came on here. its that, it almost seems like having a dog is "cool" and not really anything else after that. i doubt people here think about it past the fact that its cool. i mean, down the street, theres a guy who has a dog house made out of metal for his dog to live in it -_-... thas gonna basically cook the dog alive. thats bad. now i havent seen the dog,
BUT ill try give him a few hints...

anyhow, yes there are GSD breeders here, and are people who bring GSD's that are fully trained from outside the middle east... anyhow,

BENMAX

from what i understand, indians are more culturally driven then religiously driven. i know this because lots of indians who come here, arent AS educated on islam as the people in the middle east are. there ARE indians who are educated, like Dr.zakir naik, and Ahmed Deedat, they are indian scholars who have made many lectures on the do's and dont's of islam.

the indian muslims, afghani muslims, pakistani muslims, etc.. etc... are much more culturally driven, and tend to be more radical.

im not saying that there isnt any radical people in kuwait, but its much more calmer here, then in india. you wouldnt see anyone openly saying that they are radical, in fact, its rare. in saudi arabia, you'd find more radical people than in kuwait. kuwait is really small, infact, nova scotia is bigger than kuwait :).

the city of halifax parallels kuwait in size.

anyhow i cant say for sure thats how it is, but this is the idea i've got. from the indians we seen here (like our maid for example who is a muslim) they learn a lot after comming here.

now, the reason as to why they dont affiliate with you guys could be a number of things including the one i explained above.

WHY exactly??? its impossible for me to know.

i hope i was clear and not redundant.

14+kitties
April 20th, 2010, 11:47 AM
the thing is, i realised this after i came on here. its that, it almost seems like having a dog is "cool" and not really anything else after that. i doubt people here think about it past the fact that its cool. i mean, down the street, theres a guy who has a dog house made out of metal for his dog to live in it -_-... thas gonna basically cook the dog alive. thats bad. now i havent seen the dog,

Nope, I have to disagree with that statement. We do not think having a dog, or cat for that matter, is "cool". We most definitely look at having a pet a lot differently than your culture does. Responsibility goes a long long way to owning a pet. When we have one, if we are a good pet owner, we look after it properly. We give our pet(s) shelter (inside our homes), food, and lots of love. In return our pet gives us love back. They are our companions. When we lose one our heart breaks.
However, the longer you speak, the more information you bring out, the easier it is to see why you think the way you do. That is not meant in a negative way. It was acknowledging your thoughts as being valid. Just surely a lot different than we think of our pets in our civilization.

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 11:55 AM
Nope, I have to disagree with that statement. We do not think having a dog, or cat for that matter, is "cool". We most definitely look at having a pet a lot differently than your culture does. Responsibility goes a long long way to owning a pet. When we have one, if we are a good pet owner, we look after it properly. We give our pet(s) shelter (inside our homes), food, and lots of love. In return our pet gives us love back. They are our companions. When we lose one our heart breaks.
However, the longer you speak, the more information you bring out, the easier it is to see why you think the way you do. That is not meant in a negative way. It was acknowledging your thoughts as being valid. Just surely a lot different than we think of our pets in our civilization.

when i was speaking about the "cool" thing i ment about guys my age who have dogs in kuwait.
not canada ofcourse.

i understand what your saying, and that is an inevitable occurance when communicating with someone :D
also, i hope to exercise my communicating with you guys, so i learn more.

but, i will say, i think how people think of animals is different depending on each individual, whether its a civilization that loves animals, or non animal orientated civilization. i think theres good, bad, uneducated, and ignorant people everywhere. IMO, culture influences to a certain extent, the rest is up to the individual.

14+kitties
April 20th, 2010, 11:57 AM
Because I like to be somewhat educated I did a bit of a search on my own on Islamic beliefs and dogs. I am posting this site for the benefit of our members so that we can maybe all understand your culture a little better SSS.
There are parts in there that may also shine a light on why black dogs are considered "evil". I am assuming (which I shouldn't) that black cats are included in there somewhere. In my culture we know black dogs and cats are no different than any other pet. They want to be loved and have a home as much as a white, yellow, pink or purple one does. :rolleyes:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/dogs.htm

BenMax
April 20th, 2010, 12:07 PM
Ok - I stopped at killing 'jet black ones'. Cannot read further.

I don't understand, and I am close minded I guess. I am out.

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 12:07 PM
Because I like to be somewhat educated I did a bit of a search on my own on Islamic beliefs and dogs. I am posting this site for the benefit of our members so that we can maybe all understand your culture a little better SSS.
There are parts in there that may also shine a light on why black dogs are considered "evil". I am assuming (which I shouldn't) that black cats are included in there somewhere. In my culture we know black dogs and cats are no different than any other pet. They want to be loved and have a home as much as a white, yellow, pink or purple one does. :rolleyes:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/dogs.htm


if your doing what i think your doing, i'd just like to say your acting very childish.

you've been slowly easing into this, and i've noticed it awhile back.

i hope you become more mature.

BUT, i will give you the benifit of the doubt, and assume your doing this with good intent. but i'd appreciate it if you kept yourself in check.

also, i'd like to take this chance to point out that theres MANY sites that have been made to destroy the image of islam. if you truely want a site, ask me, because theres so many that are fake, and have untrue infromation. too many, and with many names that a non muslim would guess are legitimate.

for example, ones that are like "about-islam.com"
stuff like that.




and to explain the "evil"

they arent actually evil.

theres beings that live amongst us called "Jinn"

they are what you believe to be ghosts. we dont believe in ghosts, we believe they are jinn. so what people believe to be ghosts, we believe to be jinn.

jinn are like humans, there are bad, good, normal, and evil jinn.

jinn can be muslim, athiests, christian, jewish, hindu, etc... etc...

just like humans, they have beliefs and such.

jinn are prohibited to take over a body of a human, animal, etc..

it is strictly prohibited

so with black cats and black dogs, they are prone to being taken over by jinn.

im sure many of you are familiar with the movie "the exorcism of emily rose" ?

well its the same idea. so black dogs and cats that are FULLY black are more prone to being taken over.





anyhow, back to my initial statement.

14+kittens

if you want to learn more about my religion, dont take matters into your own hands and post a link (which for all you know isnt legit) to try and make things clear.

you are not a muslim.
you have not studied islam.

so if you'd like, ask me, and i'd be happy to explain.



also, i havent seen the link, because its access is prohibited on the kuwaiti server. which only tells me that its a site destroying the image of islam.

14+kitties
April 20th, 2010, 12:11 PM
if your doing what i think your doing, i'd just like to say your acting very childish.

Ok my dear, that is very childish of you. I was only trying to help people understand your side a little better. Now I can see you really, truly don't want our help. I guess you can now try to get your information about dogs, cats, whatever from others. I am done.

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 12:14 PM
Ok my dear, that is very childish of you. I was only trying to help people understand your side a little better. Now I can see you really, truly don't want our help. I guess you can now try to get your information about dogs, cats, whatever from others. I am done.

ok, well if you were trying to help, you could have asked me.
if i didnt want help from the forums, i wouldnt have stuck around.
but w.e. say what you want.

im not dumb.

someone else may not have seen what you're doing, but i can.

BenMax
April 20th, 2010, 12:17 PM
SSS - this site is about animals, not religion. However I realize that there is a fine line and we obviously see things very differently and how your religion descriminates against dogs, black cats..what else - I have no clue.

We do not have these barriers. We can freely have and love whatever we want..whether our religion dictates or not. To be honest, our religion does not say what we can and cannot do in regards to animals.

We love our animals regardless of breed, color, species etc...as we do people of all religious background. My God is one of love. He/she allows me to embrace humans and animals of all types, colors, religions etc.

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 12:22 PM
SSS - this site is about animals, not religion. However I realize that there is a fine line and we obviously see things very differently and how your religion descriminates against dogs, black cats..what else - I have no clue.

We do not have these barriers. We can freely have and love whatever we want..whether our religion dictates or not. To be honest, our religion does not say what we can and cannot do in regards to animals.

We love our animals regardless of breed, color, species etc...as we do people of all religious background. My God is one of love. He/she allows me to embrace humans and animals of all types, colors, religions etc.

how does my religion discriminate against animals? did you read my post?


also, it DOESNT have anything to do with religion, i didnt bring up religion, two differently people brought it up.
all i did was explain so you guys dont get the wrong idea, but obviously it was all in vain.

plus you also asked me to explain something about my religion. so its not like i was comming in here flaunting my religion.

BenMax
April 20th, 2010, 12:37 PM
how does my religion discriminate against animals? did you read my post?


also, it DOESNT have anything to do with religion, i didnt bring up religion, two differently people brought it up.
all i did was explain so you guys dont get the wrong idea, but obviously it was all in vain.

plus you also asked me to explain something about my religion. so its not like i was comming in here flaunting my religion.

So I did...my bad. (and I mean that...I should not have asked but I was hoping for something positive).

To be perfectly blunt with you, I don't think that a dog will stay with you for 15 years. You have not done much research on breeds, what suits your life style, questions about having a dog in a car and what climate it can handle...etc. I think alot about your cat..where he is, if he is alive and ok, is he suffering....I don't understand why now you are thinking of getting a dog when clearly your cat is missing...

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 12:44 PM
So I did...my bad. (and I mean that...I should not have asked but I was hoping for something positive).

To be perfectly blunt with you, I don't think that a dog will stay with you for 15 years. You have not done much research on breeds, what suits your life style, questions about having a dog in a car and what climate it can handle...etc. I think alot about your cat..where he is, if he is alive and ok, is he suffering....I don't understand why now you are thinking of getting a dog when clearly your cat is missing...

did you miss the part where i said its in the future? a future possibility?

i never said im getting a dog soon

i said i'd get one when im 25+

about the cat, what do you want me to do? its not like im not thinking if its ok or not. you know i do care about it.

onster
April 20th, 2010, 12:48 PM
wow I don't even know what to say half this stuff. But I can't not comment so here goes...

For the record: I am muslim, I lived in the middle east (Saudi, U.A.E) for the majority of my life.

1. Online references about many things, including religion, can be highly unreliable depending on the source. Unfortunately one downside of the internet is the 'rise of the amateur' and that real authorities on matters may be lost in the mix.

2. Just as Christianity has different sects, with varying practices and degrees of 'strictness', so does islam. Following that, yes there are muslims who view dogs saliva as unclean and that dog ownership should be limited to dogs having a purpose (ie, guard dog, sheep dog etc). There are also muslims that, based on differing interpretations, believe that dog saliva is perfectly clean.

3. Even those muslims that believe saliva is 'unclean' can still and *do* own dogs. It's just a heck of a lot more work. They may have one area that the dog is not allowed to enter, a certain room for example, which remains 'pure' and they can perform their prayers in. It's really about being 'clean' and in a clean area when your pray, as you are before God. More 'cleansing' will be required before praying (we cleanse before every prayer anyway because so many things in everyday life are 'unclean')..

4. Regardless of whether a muslim believes dogs are clean or unclean they *must* treat *all* animals well, prevent suffering and treat them as creatures of God. There is the story of a man who is going to heaven simply because after taking a drink from a well, he noticed a dog that was thirsty and filled his shoe (the only vessel on him) with water for the pup. That being said, obviously it would be very wrong to see a dog in distress in a car and simply ignore it. Some people might but hey some people in the west might too. It's nothing to do with islam, it's to do with their character as human beings. In fact if they were following the rulings of islam you bet they would help that dog.

5. The notion of black dogs/cats possibly harbouring a jinn and killing black dogs/cats. I'm trying to be reasonable here. First a disclaimer: I have and adore my black cat.I heard about this idea for the first time in my life in Canada, oh man did it make my blood boil. What the ?!?!?!?! yeah so if see a black lab who helps a blind person you should stop there and kill it? seriously what a ridiculous idiotic disgusting idea. I know islam and that is not islam. At least not the islam I grew up with, the islam everyone I know who is muslim practices. This is not the thinking of the majority and I have never ever heard of anyone actually practicing this. Sure there are people that are superstitious about black cats and animals in general, but that is not limited to islam. Regarding the jinn concept, I heard a scholar first hand discuss this idea and while he said it is in the realm of possibility, as a jinn can theoretically embody anything, he basically dismissed the idea. I would go into details but I have an exam in 2 hours and I feel im going off topic.

I'm sorry for my discussion of religion, but I had to say it because many members know I'm muslim and I can't imagine them thinking I'd want to kill their beautiful black pups! or that if i saw a dog in distress I wouldnt help it because its 'unclean'.


About how long the dog can stay in the car, having lived in the region I would also say never. I've had my hand burned reaching for a car handle from how hot it gets and I never stayed in the region during the summers. You can't rely on the weather man to tell you what the temperature will be (and hence whether it will be safe) and even if you could the weather man can't predict the oven/sauna that your car will become. Oh and also power windows are not uncommon in the middle east!!!! but that is irrelevant.

shibamom
April 20th, 2010, 12:54 PM
The truth is that all cultures (whether it be in Kuwait or Canada) tend to treat animals/dogs like crap. I mean come on, we are all aware of the horrific abuses that go on right here in Canada and there's not much of a difference wherever you go.

Please be careful about your sources. The "answering islam" site is an evangelical Christian site. The sort of quotes from the Koran that are used could easily be pulled from the Bible as well. I'm not religious at all, neither book holds more weight in my eyes than the other.

Perhaps this site makes things a little more clear on the issue:
http://www.islamicconcern.com/dogs.asp

This is an article from a Muslim author, who is also a vet surgeon.

Sew-sew-steve
April 20th, 2010, 12:54 PM
my sister/brother, thanks a lot for clearing things up, i was just about to lose hope with explaining things to these guys.

seems like everytime i say something anywhere on this forum, half of it is thrown aside, and im confronted with a statement about what i said (because it was taken out of context or added to something i didnt say) which gets very frusterating.

mashkoora/mashkoor, of maga9arty/maga9art.


anyways, i've had enough of this forum. sorry, but i tried to learn, and the most thing i learned is that i dont have much respect here.

whatever.

anyways, thanks for the information i've gotten so far.

but im done with the forum.

salam.

shibamom
April 20th, 2010, 12:55 PM
Oh and also power windows are not uncommon in the middle east!!!! but that is irrelevant.

Sorry, my experience was limited to the less prosperous countries (Egypt, mainly), and that was what I saw. I apologize if it was not correct.

14+kitties
April 20th, 2010, 01:03 PM
I will apologize on here for offending anyone. Not my intention at all. I was simple trying to figure out in my own head the reasonings behind SSS's thinking. I overstepped and again, I apologize.

onster
April 20th, 2010, 01:33 PM
have to run but, as 14+ is dear to me, I just wanted to say you did not offend me and we're all good :grouphug:. Just because I disagreed with the source you posted doesn't mean I am offended with u...if anything I'm offended by the source :frustrated:

SSW, I am female and you are welcome. But I am part of "these guys", if I was not muslim I wouldve probably responsed similarly (well maybe not im non confrontational usually lol). *We* are all very passionate about animals so we get caught up in these debates..anyway im not really taking sides in this discussion. I havent read all your posts so I cannot comment on that but my point was just to clarify what I did read (the whole islam thing).

Shibamom, no apologies needed. I apologize actually..I can see how you would have thought that...it was really irrelevant I shouldve just ignored it.

BenMax
April 20th, 2010, 01:45 PM
Onster, thank you for the clarification. I think had the OP expressed themselves with as much information and had a more educated approach perhaps we would have understood.

We have known you for some time now Onster, and we absolutely adore you. It is a priveldge to know you and learn more about you and your customs. This is what I know of you and your ways. Never once have you ever made me think otherwise.

Thanks for the information. I understand.

Blackbear
April 20th, 2010, 02:50 PM
Belief systems differ. Respect and education in these matters is always preferable to confrontation.

This thread has run its course and will now be closed.