April 13th, 2010, 05:25 PM
So Boo's creatinine levels were a touch high - about 2. 68. All other kidney levels were completely within normal range. The vet wants her on k/d or something equally gross...not going to happen.
I've chatted with a few members here about homemade ground raw, and have the recipe from http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.php, but I'm hoping that someone out there can suggest a recipe that includes a non-bone calcium source (so as to keep the phosphorous levels down). I have a general idea of what I can use, but not amounts. Any suggestions? :cat:
April 13th, 2010, 07:39 PM
I'm thinking crushed eggshells (organic from free-range hens). If I remember correctly, one shell equals about 750-850mg of calcium. Just can't tell you how much a kitty needs :o.
April 13th, 2010, 07:46 PM
Maybe this will help. Scroll down to "Minerals."
April 13th, 2010, 08:51 PM
Sorry that it's taken me so long to get back to you about the calcium supplements, bendyfoot. My favourite website with info on calcium salts is down: http://www.serve.com/adnet/index.php
There is this recipe on the Holisticat site that might be more useful for you (scroll down to Option 2 - Recipes That Don't Require a Meat Grinder): http://www.holisticat.com/rawrecipe.html
The ideal calcium-phosphorus ratio is around 1.2-1.4:1, so if you make your own recipe, you need to calculate the amount of phosphorus and calcium in the meat you're using, and then do the math to figure out how much extra elemental calcium to add to balance it out. Calcium carbonate has the most elemental calcium (40%) of all the calcium salts, so that minimizes how much "stuff" you need to add to the recipe (helpful if you have fussy cats).
Lots of people like to use ground eggshell because it has some additional micro-nutrients that could possibly be beneficial. Make sure you grind it superfine or the cats might object. One dilemma I have with eggshell is the large discrepancies in how much elemental calcium it contains. Here is a discussion on that: http://onibasu.com/archives/kn/171434.html
The calcium supplement I personally like to use is Easy Calcium (http://www.ezvitamins.com/calcium.html), a combo of calcium gluconate lactate and calcium fructoborate (contains 375 mg of elemental calcium per tsp). My cat likes the taste so I don't have a problem mixing it into his food, although your mileage may vary.
Here are some more links for you to check out, including nutrient databases in case you need to do the calcium-phosphorus calculations yourself:
April 13th, 2010, 08:52 PM
Were the BUN levels elevated? Or was it just Creatinine? And did you have a urinalysis with specific gravity performed?
And was she fasted before hand?
One of my kittens recently bloodwork done and showed slightly elevated Creatinine, but BUN and all other values were normal. We ran a urinalysis including a specific gravity since this is really really important to show kidney function. We ran another blood profile a few hours later and everything came back perfect including the Creatinine, so the vet believes it was just a result of digestion.
Just so you know raw fed pets can have slightly elevated bloodvalues. In addition its important, before you worry too much I would ask to get your cat's specific gravity tested. This test shows if the kidneys are concentrating the urine properly.
April 13th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Thanks for the added info, SCM! :D
List, it was a fasted test. Only the Creatinine levels were elevated; the BUN was fine. I haven't had a specific gravity done (her blood was checked as part of a routine senior blood panel) because we've had no reason to be concerned about her health, urination or kidneys. Urine volume hasn't changed at all...her weight is exactly the same as a year ago, and she acts like a kitten (although a wee bit arthritic now). Otherwise healthy as a horse.
April 13th, 2010, 10:20 PM
What is the reference range for Creatinine for your lab? Is her phosphorus mid normal or high end normal?
I'm sure you've looked this up already but Creatinine is a waste product of the muscles that is excreted by the kidneys, as a result some large muscular cats have naturally higher levels, elevated levels can indicate kidney impairment, or pancreatitis. Creatinine presents a more accurate picture of the kidney function than BUN does because Creatinine is not as affected by diet, exercise or dehydration - it also means it can be a little more difficult to get it to drop than BUN. http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis.htm#creatinine
I prefer not to fast kitties prior to testing, and my vet has never mentioned fasting, but I do try to have the tests run roughly the same time of day as the numbers do fluctuate all the time throughout the day.
As for raw diet, I know you feed prey model so this may not work for you :shrug: Duffy can not handle any bone, not even ground bone, so I feed Feline Futures TC Instinct Plus Chicken Liver (http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1191) (bottom of the list) with ground chicken. There is a formula without the liver, TC Instincts, so you can add your own organ meat, and you do not have to use ground meat you can use chunks, I happened to find a butcher shop who has a lot of raw feeding customers & they sell frozen ground chicken in bricks. :thumbs up
Instructions for regular receipe (http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=2381)
Instructions for reduced protein receipe (http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=2194) I've not tried this as I suspect Duffy wouldn't eat it for long :D
Duffy's homeopath put her on Azodyl (http://www.vetoquinolusa.com/pages/pro_azodyl.html) to reduce both BUN & Cre 1st Dec and I started the FFTCIPCL fully in mid Dec 09 & both her numbers have dropped nicely :cat: