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K9 Cuisine raw chicken in London - Questions?

Twocents
April 10th, 2010, 12:16 AM
I found an ad "Natural Raw Dog Food" on Kijiji.ca under London, ON.

(Ad posted Mar.21, Current link http://london.kijiji.ca/c-pets-animal-pet-services-Natural-Raw-Dog-Food-W0QQAdIdZ180388934)

__________________________________________________ ____________

Questions:

I anyone purchasing from them?

I would like to know how you like their raw pet food.

Do you feed it to your dog and/or cat?

Do you add your own supplements? If so, what do you add?

If it's whole ground chicken carcases, is it an incomplete diet?

How do you prepare it? Do you use it in home-cooked pet food?

Can anyone tell me what delivery costs might be (I emailed & asked them but they haven't replied.)?

Thanks for your help.

__________________________________________________ __________

From Kijiji Ad:

$1. / LB, minimum 10 pound order.

"Switching a dog or cat companion’s diet to our fresh frozen, raw diet often leads to compelling results such as..."

"Free email support to our clients !
Free London Delivery !
"At cost" local cities' delivery available !"

"We teach you how to save further - it would cost $45.50, a month, to feed an 80 lb dog our human grade raw dog food."


From email:

"Ingredients: Federally Inspected Human Grade Chicken: Muscle Meat / Fat / Bone"

"Same chicken that is sold at grocery store for $2 plus a LB !"

"website is being redesigned - www.k9cuisine.net"

__________________________________________________ ____________

luckypenny
April 10th, 2010, 10:13 AM
Without a list of ingredients and ratios, it's difficult to form an opinion of it. However, I do work in the meat industry and even though it's stated that the meat used is human grade and federally inspected, I wonder if that's only at the source that they get it. Questions I would have....What about their plant? Is that federally inspected as well (highly doubt it from the photos)? By the time the product reaches the consumer, is it still human grade? For example, during processing, storage, and transportation, are the areas kept at adequate temperatures as prescribed by law? In your link, there's a photo that seems to have been taken at an outdoor shipping/receiving area with boxes of meat stacked onto pallets. I'd be awfully cautious of any meat sitting around outside in the sun :shrug:. Some of the boxes aren't sealed and there looks to be something wrapped in paper sitting atop a box...that's not how human grade meat is legally shipped from a federally inspected plant. I wish I could read what the labels say but the pic is too blurry.

Their ad also states "no overhead costs." Sorry but, if they're working out of a plant, there's rent, wages, taxes, electricity (awfully expensive if temperatures are kept low during processing and storage), cleaning products, equipment, storage materials (plastic bags, etc.), and the purchase of the meat in it's original state, etc., etc.. At a 1$ a pound for the finished product, I'm a little pessimistic about their claims it's a human grade quality product :shrug:.

luckypenny
April 10th, 2010, 10:44 AM
Ok, I can't stop thinking about this :o.

They say they do free local deliveries too. So more to add to overhead...gas ($$ if it's got a freezer/refrigerator compartment as it's supposed to ), vehicle maintenance, registration, and once again salary for the delivery person.

I have to question, how much do they pay for the original, before processing, product :confused:. Makes me wonder.

Twocents
April 10th, 2010, 10:31 PM
luckypenny,

I wanted to send you a PM with more scary funny info, but I can't -

I get a notice that you can't accept further messages...

~ twocents

Twocents
April 10th, 2010, 11:01 PM
From K9 Cuisine:

“Here’s nutrient list; remember these values are only for 100 grams, which is ¼ of a LB

Nutritional values per 100g :

CRUDE PROTEIN g 10.26
ARGININE g 0.70
HISTIDINE g 0.31
ISOLEUCINE g 0.52
LEUCINE g 0.88
LYSINE g 0.87
METHIONINE-CYSTINE g 0.40
PHENYLALANINE-TYROSINE g 0.86
THREONINE g 0.50
TRYPTOPHAN g 0.13
VALINE g 0.59
CRUDE FAT g 7.35
LINOLEIC ACID g 1.46
CALCIUM mg 571.21
PHOSPHORUS mg 330.19
POTASSIUM mg 243.56
SODIUM mg 222.72
CHLORIDE mg 83.00
MAGNESIUM mg 43.05
IRON mg 5.18
COPPER mg 0.35
MANGANESE mg 0.28
ZINC mg 4.00
IODINE mg 1.54
SELENIUM ug 43.78
VITAMIN A IU 5031.66
VITAMIN D IU 16.51
VITAMIN E mg 2.54
THIAMIN mg 0.25
RIBOFLAVIN mg 0.68
PANTOTHENIC ACID mg 1.29
NIACIN mg 5.20
VITAMIN B6 mg 0.29
FOLATE ug 31.96
VITAMIN B12 ug 6.75
CHOLINE mg 43.13

Federally Inspected Human grade chicken; we do carry other meats but not at this time – chicken seems to be highest demand due to pricing.
Properly formulated muscle meat / fat / bone – we’ve been feeding our own dogs & many client’s dogs for almost 35 years.
We started the actual business in 1991.
As it is human grade meat as described above, not kill floor scrap, it sells at grocery stores for $2.00 plus a lb
I sell thousands of lbs monthly & so offer wholesale pricing of $1/LB.
We’ve been feeding raw to our Dobermans for over 35 years.
We’ve been feeding all breeds owned by clients since 1991.
As I stated in advertisement, no store front, this is – direct to client.

Currently only carrying CHICKEN.

ORDERS are placed one week in advance.

Orders are ready SATURDAY of each week – FOB: London, ON

Orders can be picked up through the week also.

Chicken
Ingredients: Federally Inspected Human Grade Chicken: Muscle Meat / Fat / Bone

Same chicken that is sold at grocery store for $2 plus a LB !

Analysis:
Crude Protein (min): 15 - 20%, Crude Fat (min): 5 - 8%, Crude Fiber (max): 1%, Moisture (max): 71%, Ash (max): 4%, Carbohydrate Yield (approx): 0.5%

FAQ’s:

We previously carried all meats: beef, lamb, goat, rabbit, chicken, etc.
However, due to pricing & recession, customers have only requested chicken & that is all that I am formulating at this time.

We’ve fed our own dogs & cats raw for over 32 years.
My company has existed since 1991.
NO store front; our plant is located outside of London, we deliver direct in London & Southwestern ON.

What is a list of the ingredients in your mix?

CHICKEN - GROUND Muscle meat, organ meat, bone, fat.

Our blend is NOT kill floor scrap.
Properly formulated, federally inspected human grade meats; ( retails for $2+ a LB.)

Is it fresh or frozen?

FRESH FROZEN or FRESH BULK ORDERS: 10LBS +
WHOLESALE: $1/lb – chicken is protein source
Others meats available, at higher cost

Is there a minimum order purchase?

MINIMUM ORDER: 10LB bags or fresh / frozen


Packaging?

Packaged in 10LB bags fresh or frozen.
OR/
50LB fresh in box; as some owners prefer to bag according to size portions.

Packaging is freezer type bags.
No stickers, plain bags keep our pricing down for bulk @ $1.00/lb


Tell me about the source of the chicken?

Premier quality Ontario chicken – Federally inspected human grade meat”

Testimonials from pet owners include one from someone feeding this food to their cats.

cassiek
April 11th, 2010, 09:04 AM
Hi twocents,

I can't really offer much expertise here, being new to raw myself, but I am anxious to hear LP's response... to me it almost sounds too good to be true... but again, I'm not an expert.

The one thing I noticed:

Chicken
Ingredients: Federally Inspected Human Grade Chicken: Muscle Meat / Fat / Bone

A question I would have is what is the ratio of muscle meat to fat to bone?

Another thing... there are no organs. That's not a huge deal, but just means if you go with this food, you will need to add your own organs.

I can see how the cost of this product is appealing, have you thought about checking with your local butcher or do you know any hunters? Many raw feeders on here are able to purchase raw meat and organs for VERY cheap from their local butchers (much less than $1.00/lb I believe).

luckypenny
April 11th, 2010, 08:07 PM
Twocents, just cleaned out my inbox :D.

From K9 Cuisine:

“Here’s nutrient list; remember these values are only for 100 grams, which is ¼ of a LB

Nutritional values per 100g :



Odd, the entire list of nutritional values is identical to Mountain Dog Food's "Ascension Chicken" made/located in Alberta. http://www.mountaindogfood.com/Analyses/nutrients.htm

On the link you provided in your first post (even more odd, the ad has disappeared from that site :rolleyes:), their description as to the pros of feeding raw was copied word for word from another site promoting raw feeding.

Furthermore, there is nothing, not a single mention of this company anywhere on the www :shrug:. (A K9Cuisine does exist but it's in Illinois, not the same company at all.)

Oh, and on the original ad, one of the photos was packaged meat...there was green vegetable matter that was plain to see....no mention of vegetables in their ingredients though. Here's the pic (in case you didn't notice it) that was posted that was taken of the outdoor site where the boxes of meat were stacked :sick:. Federally inspected doesn't necessarily mean federally approved.

64193

I know, I sound awfully suspicious of the product and the company but, that's because I am. CassieK, you know how the saying goes..."if it's too good to be true, it probably is" ?

Twocents
April 11th, 2010, 09:12 PM
... to me it almost sounds too good to be true... but again, I'm not an expert.

I hear you. This "company" doesn't inspire my trust. If they want to be reputable & understand the concerns of potential clients, they would publish their contact info (a NAME would be nice), business address, maybe GST #...

I'm certainly no expert either. I'm not sure I would feed this stuff to our pets without being cooked first.

The one thing I noticed:

Chicken
Ingredients: Federally Inspected Human Grade Chicken: Muscle Meat / Fat / Bone

A question I would have is what is the ratio of muscle meat to fat to bone?

I was wondering that myself. If I find out, I'll post it here.

Another thing... there are no organs. That's not a huge deal, but just means if you go with this food, you will need to add your own organs.

Yup. That's my plan. And adding supplements too.

In their email I quoted, it does say:

What is a list of the ingredients in your mix?

CHICKEN - GROUND Muscle meat, organ meat, bone, fat.


I can see how the cost of this product is appealing, have you thought about checking with your local butcher or do you know any hunters? Many raw feeders on here are able to purchase raw meat and organs for VERY cheap from their local butchers (much less than $1.00/lb I believe).

Yah, I've been meaning to...

:2cents:

Twocents
April 11th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Odd, the entire list of nutritional values is identical to Mountain Dog Food's "Ascension Chicken" made/located in Alberta. http://www.mountaindogfood.com/Analyses/nutrients.htm

On the link you provided in your first post (even more odd, the ad has disappeared from that site :rolleyes:), their description as to the pros of feeding raw was copied word for word from another site promoting raw feeding.

Hmmm, interesting...

Furthermore, there is nothing, not a single mention of this company anywhere on the www :shrug:. (A K9Cuisine does exist but it's in Illinois, not the same company at all.)

I had done a search, found same info as you. I also tried a site search here.

It's possible that it is mentioned in say, a Yahoo group, because it's up to the group's administrator it they want their posts to be included in Internet searches. I have yet to ask in the Yahoo groups I belong to. I should do that...

Oh, and on the original ad, one of the photos was packaged meat...there was green vegetable matter that was plain to see....no mention of vegetables in their ingredients though. Here's the pic (in case you didn't notice it) that was posted that was taken of the outdoor site where the boxes of meat were stacked :sick:. Federally inspected doesn't necessarily mean federally approved.

Hmmm. Makes me wonder if the picture was of their product or even if it was of meat or not.

I know, I sound awfully suspicious of the product and the company but, that's because I am. CassieK, you know how the saying goes..."if it's too good to be true, it probably is" ?

I'm also suspicious. I thought that if they had as many customers as they imply, then I might find some here on Pets.ca... If it's a good company to deal with supplying a good product at a good price, then wouldn't some of their clients be mentioning it in places other than in their testimonials in their email? Perhaps the testimonials are also from another company's site? Oh man, another search I have to do... :headslap:

Maybe if you become one of their clients, you have to swear to rules similar to "Fight Club" - (The first rule of Fight Club is that you don't talk about Fight Club.) :frustrated:

This "company" seems really paranoid.

A lot of red flags, but I'm a Taurus. :D

:2cents:

cassiek
April 11th, 2010, 10:50 PM
LP, you bring up some very valid points... the fact that they have no official website address & their nutrient specs and wording is identical to 2 other sites, would lead me to be very weary of this product.

And yes, it sounds almost too good to be true. IMO, I would stick with a butcher/hunter/raw co-op etc. It is strange no one else has every heard of this company... they don't seem too reputable to me.