Need help picking a breed, Advice?

Okay here's the deal... I've always been around dogs since I was a young kid, and while I never had one myself, most of my friends over the years, have had dogs that I've been VERY close to. These dogs often responded to me much better than there owners, so I assume I just have something about me they like.

I will be 32 this year and have a family of my own now with an 11yr old, and we are looking at getting our own addition to our family. We live in an apartment building now, but within the next 6mos, we will be in a house, or very least townhouse with backyard. (so well before any puppy gets too large)

I really like the muscular looking dogs such as pitbulls (and their variations), but alas I live in ontario, and they are banned :(

What I AM looking for:
- good temperment around other dogs & children
- fair sized dog (not St bernard large, but something that commands a presence)
- Something that wont mind crawling up on my lap like an oversized child (I love to sit and pet watching tv or while socializing with friends.
- muscular/toned body type
- Smart (can learn tricks.. would love him to fetch a beer from time to time hehe)
- good guard/watch dog (protective, but not over agressive, ie barks but wont bite unless threatened)

What I AM NOT looking for:
- Yippy/Barks alot (i know it's all in training, but some tend to have more tendency to do it)
- anything long haired.. medium maybe but would prefer short
- something that requires hours and hours of outside time daily (Some days I will be out all day with him/her, others might be only for 20-30min walks a couple times a day for exercise, washroom breaks, etc)
- NO Extreme droolers.. they might be cute, but I dont wanna have to change my pants after 30minutes of lap-time.

I've crossed off boxers cause my wife is probably going to be getting one in the future as my dogs gets older. Other than that, I am open to almost anything.. I've considered American Bulldogs, Presa Canario, and Dogo Argentino so far, if anyone has any advice, or suggestions for breeds, or against any I've been looking into, I'm open to hearing all... Will also expand or answer any questions.

A few questions first.

1. What happens if you don't get that house before the dog gets big?

2. All of the breeds you've mentioned demonstrate a preference for the protection type of dog and will require a lot of socialization and training. Are you willing to spend the time and money required to do that.

3. The comment about a couple of 20 or 30 minute walks outside a few times a day bothers me. All puppies will require a lot more than a couple of 20 or 30 minute trips outside. They're full of energy and mischief when pups, some breeds can take up to age 3 before they settle down a bit. Not providing them with proper exercise will result in problem behaviour. Are you willing to bend on this one?

clm

Have you ever thought of a rescue dog? They have so many breeds and mixed breeds to choose from, and temperments and traits your looking for,
Here see for your self :) http://www.petfinder.com/index.html

And by the way, Boxers and American Bulldogs are droolers....or frothers/foamers :D

a lab/rotti mix sounds like it would suit you pretty well, energetic, loves kids, smart, easy to train, loves being outside with you doing pretty well anything. They do drool.....some a lot, some very little, but like children, its always a surprise what you end up with. Mind you, those are just general traits, each dog is an indivicual and like Happycat says....a rescue would suit you to a T

As the owner of a large breed, muscular puppy - I can honestly tell you that if this is the first dog you have ever owned - you might want to rethink your breed choices. The breeds you mention are no nonsense breeds who need a firm experienced hand and mistakes made with a puppy of one of these can lead to fatal consequences in your (or the dogs) future. Socialization - in the public and in a class setting is a MUST. So is serious training - again, in a class setting. Neglecting those two things are extremely detrimental to, not only the dog, but the entire family.

If you decide to get one of the breeds you mention - be VERY, VERY, VERY careful about a breeder. Make sure you do your homework regarding genetic issues for each breed - many can be tested for and some are crippling or fatal.

I've considered American Bulldogs, Presa Canario, and Dogo Argentino so far, if anyone has any advice, or suggestions for breeds, or against any I've been looking into, I'm open to hearing all...

The breeds you have mentioned are all great but all three can be aggressive the Presa and the Dogo are breeds of Mastiffs but they are the most aggressive of the mastiff family. With that said if you are willing to spend the money and go to very reputable breeders that problem will not be nearly as prevalent as when they come from byb or mills. These dogs need to be bred by people that know what they are doing. These dogs are candidates for every idiot that wants a tough dog, so the mills and bybs are breeding more of these dogs. I will also tell you that vet bills for big dogs are much higher. I have an AB and he is super aggressive (he is a rescue) he was never properly socialized with other than family members and not a lot of dog interaction. All of the above breeds need tons of socialization to help them become great dogs which all can if you are willing to do the time. I think you should look into rescues. The dogs are screened and you will be able to find a better fit with your family. My Mastiffs were all rescues and incredible dogs you just need to be dedicated to training and working to integrate them to your family. I am still working on getting Clark to that stage. Good luck with your hunt for your special dog. P.S. I am not sure of the drool factor for the Dogo and the Presa but I can tell you the English and the Neapolitan are major droolers I can tell you that for a fact I have lived with both

We got a pup from the SPCA, a complete mix of dogs. The only thing we specified was that we wanted a large breed dog with a great temperament that suited our family.

When we found Bodhi, we knew it was the right one. Not because of her size after all, though her predicted size was at the bottom end of what we thought we wanted - she was said to grow to about 65lbs, and to be a shepherd lab mix.

We knew the shepherd part to be true - mom was a shepherd cross herself. You can see the photos in my profile, if you want to have a peek.

What made us choose Bodhi was her temperament. At 7.5 weeks, he had only just (as in 10 minutes just) arrived at the SPCA from another SPCA a good hour away. Her first time away from her mom and littermates, an hour travel in a crate and car, a new building, new voices and smells, and behind the reception area with a high strung tiny breed and four strangers. And no more than 10 minutes later we arrive (two adults, two boys aged 7 and 9). We first went into the kennel area, and looked around but were drawn back to the reception area, to this little tan pup. She's still curious but not nervously so, she's not backing away from humans, she's not cowering in a corner. She accepted being picked up by yet other strangers, and passed from one adult to another, cradled (on her back) without shivering with nerves or squirming to get back right side up. She accepted this in an open manner, without wanting to stop it or avoid it. When we saw how she accepted it, we (carefully supervised) passed the pup to our oldest and again, she accepted without nerves or aggression or avoidance. Just curiosity and openness. Then our youngest held the pup, and again, no unwelcome behaviours.

This pup was open, receptive, waiting to see what would come, without fear or avoidance or deflection. What a difference with the pups we'd seen already.

As Bodhi grew, we had some more peeks at the possible crosses that are in her. While we initially didn't accept the lab part (even the vet rejected it and said the SPCA often says 'lab cross' to make the pups easier to adopt), we have come to believe that the lab is definitely in there because of her fur, her longish back, her posture, her very webbed feet. But we also saw ridgeback as a puppy (which lessened some as she grew), and mastiff (which increased as she grew), and several people have seen some pitbull in her. Basically mom and dad were both crosses, we know mom, but don't know dad, and it was a bit of a wait and see. Perhaps we will do a DNA test sometime when we can justify the expense.

Bodhi is now 10 months old, and 87lbs. Since we are aware she is a large breed dog, we are making sure that she is growing at a moderate pace (adjusting food to give enough for energy and growth, not enough for growing too fast). We know she's got a bit of growing to do still, and believe she'll balance out at about 95lbs at a year and a half. She is about the size of a full-breed male german shepherd, shorthair, short-legged and long-bodied and motor-tailed like a lab, and stout, muscular and wrinkly like a mastiff. She's still got that ridge across the length of her back when she is excited, which shows there's a slighly different angle to the hair shafts there, but it's not as prominent as it is with a ridgeback. People have said she looks like a deer, with her large ears, long face and dark lines around her big brown eyes.

She shed a LOT when she was between 6-8 months old, puppy-fur that was being replaced with her adult coat. Now she barely sheds, and her stiff hairs are easily vacuumed, loose fur still on her is easily removed with bare hands while out on a walk.

Her temperament is beautiful. She's smart, curious, seeks balance and leadership, is easily entertained, non-destructive (she munches sticks, but hasn't gone for table legs, shoes or anything), a people-dog but accepts being left alone, guards calmly (barks to alert, not to threaten), a clear communicator and very soulful.

We were lucky that the SPCA knew the mom (she was abandoned during labour, and was with the litter througout their first 7.5 weeks). Mom had undergone extensive surgery but was with her litter again 2 days after birth. During labour, she'd whelped 2 pups, then they thought the third one was 'stuck'. It turned out to be her bladder coming through her birth canal. Major internal damage. They had to repair her bladder, remove the remaining pups via cesarean, and then a complete hysterectomy. But still, she completely accepted her live pups (2 were stillborn) and treated them with patience. Mom didn't fear humans, and accepted the required treatments during her recovery while raising her pups. Mom's temperament was amazing, her body strong, her personality gentle. She was adopted almost immediately after her pups were adopted.

Instead of looking at a specific breed, you may want to go to local rescues and ask to be alerted when they have a litter or a young pup expected to become a large breed. Learn to identify what behaviours are desireable in a pup when it's handled. What makes for a balanced pup? How to tell when the pup is fearful or nervous or disengaging/avoiding? Those will tell you much more about the specific dog than how a dog looks. Sure, keep your preferences in mind while looking - you will not be interested in small and fluffy breeds most likely. But breed doesn't say as much about personality as people tend to think.

And always remember - we get the dog we need, not the dog we want. The dog you get will reflect/ mirror your attitude toward life, toward people. The dog you get will be your biggest teacher. You will need patience, confident leadership, a sense of humour, and your pup WILL show you where those things need extra attention and brushing up. There is no single breed that will allow you to avoid testing your patience and leadership and sense of humour.

I've considered American Bulldogs, Presa Canario, and Dogo Argentino so far, if anyone has any advice, or suggestions for breeds, or against any I've been looking into, I'm open to hearing all...

The breeds you have mentioned are all great but all three can be aggressive the Presa and the Dogo are breeds of Mastiffs but they are the most aggressive of the mastiff family. With that said if you are willing to spend the money and go to very reputable breeders that problem will not be nearly as prevalent as when they come from byb or mills. These dogs need to be bred by people that know what they are doing. These dogs are candidates for every idiot that wants a tough dog, so the mills and bybs are breeding more of these dogs. I will also tell you that vet bills for big dogs are much higher. I have an AB and he is super aggressive (he is a rescue) he was never properly socialized with other than family members and not a lot of dog interaction. All of the above breeds need tons of socialization to help them become great dogs which all can if you are willing to do the time. I think you should look into rescues. The dogs are screened and you will be able to find a better fit with your family. My Mastiffs were all rescues and incredible dogs you just need to be dedicated to training and working to integrate them to your family. I am still working on getting Clark to that stage. Good luck with your hunt for your special dog. P.S. I am not sure of the drool factor for the Dogo and the Presa but I can tell you the English and the Neapolitan are major droolers I can tell you that for a fact I have lived with both

You hit the nail on the head.

I have had Presa's and dogo in foster...not easy and require a certain type of handler and extensive breed knowledge. And that knowledge is not reading about it in a book..it's hands on with a handler of this breed.

Mastifflover - neither one of these breeds drool.

Hi,

Having had experiences with the "wrong dog" for our situation I would suggest that you look into the French Bulldog.

I too love medium to larger size dogs but I can honestly say that with family and cold winters that the one and a half to two hour a day requirement for most larger breeds does not work into our schedule. I have found that dogs with these needs can be destructive to your home and home life if they do not fit into your existing schedule.

With work and family it is hard to meet the demands of a dog especially a puppy. A smaller dog can go more places with you (more welcome in friends and family's homes) has minimal exercise requirements, can sit on your lap, and the Frenchie has a shorter coat and that pushed in face "tough" pouty look. The only downside is frisbee, but their portability allows them to quietly participate in most family activities.

We have made the plunge and gone smaller pug; it was not easy to arrive at as we were also thinking, larger frisbee type dog- but the rewards are numerous; the simplicity of it all and knowing that we are meeting our puppy's needs make it all worthwhile. Especially the great snuggles!

Good Luck!

BOSTON TERRIER fits the picture.

Happycats, I had to giggle when I read your post about boxers or ABD, drooling or foaming/frothing. I must be lucky with Brynn... she is not a drooler at all... ok, except when I am preparing her raw breakfast... then she tends to get a string of drool going on LOL :laughing: She does not have big, loose, flappy jowls though. :rolleyes:

Okay here's the deal... I've always been around dogs since I was a young kid, and while I never had one myself, most of my friends over the years, have had dogs that I've been VERY close to. These dogs often responded to me much better than there owners, so I assume I just have something about me they like.

I will be 32 this year and have a family of my own now with an 11yr old, and we are looking at getting our own addition to our family. We live in an apartment building now, but within the next 6mos, we will be in a house, or very least townhouse with backyard. (so well before any puppy gets too large)

I really like the muscular looking dogs such as pitbulls (and their variations), but alas I live in ontario, and they are banned :(

What I AM looking for:
- good temperment around other dogs & children
- fair sized dog (not St bernard large, but something that commands a presence)
- Something that wont mind crawling up on my lap like an oversized child (I love to sit and pet watching tv or while socializing with friends.
- muscular/toned body type
- Smart (can learn tricks.. would love him to fetch a beer from time to time hehe)
- good guard/watch dog (protective, but not over agressive, ie barks but wont bite unless threatened)

What I AM NOT looking for:
- Yippy/Barks alot (i know it's all in training, but some tend to have more tendency to do it)
- anything long haired.. medium maybe but would prefer short
- something that requires hours and hours of outside time daily (Some days I will be out all day with him/her, others might be only for 20-30min walks a couple times a day for exercise, washroom breaks, etc)
- NO Extreme droolers.. they might be cute, but I dont wanna have to change my pants after 30minutes of lap-time.

I've crossed off boxers cause my wife is probably going to be getting one in the future as my dogs gets older. Other than that, I am open to almost anything.. I've considered American Bulldogs, Presa Canario, and Dogo Argentino so far, if anyone has any advice, or suggestions for breeds, or against any I've been looking into, I'm open to hearing all... Will also expand or answer any questions.


By what you describe, this is easy. Sort of. A golden lab.

But beware of many "pure breads". Golden labs have their health issues and need to be looked after.
Did you know that new born lab pups have to be manually birthed? This means that human intervention is needed to birth the pups.
Any way, do more research and look for a mixed bread with the right characteristics you are looking for as mixed breads are generally healthier animals.

That would be a Yellow Lab ;).

A Labrador Retriever sure does fit your requirements, M&J. Short fur, muscular, active, loyal, fair sized, intelligent, and normally likes to cuddle. As with all breeds, lots of socialization and positive experiences starting from an early age is necessary. And there are so many Labs and Lab mixes in shelters all over the place. Usually because people don't anticipate the energy levels these guys have. I wouldn't trade ours in for the world :cloud9:.

By what you describe, this is easy. Sort of. A golden lab.

But beware of many "pure breads". Golden labs have their health issues and need to be looked after.
Did you know that new born lab pups have to be manually birthed? This means that human intervention is needed to birth the pups.
Any way, do more research and look for a mixed bread with the right characteristics you are looking for as mixed breads are generally healthier animals.


Do you mean a yellow lab or a golden retriever? They are two very different breeds.

I know many people with both and while I don't know of a single breeder that allows her bitches to deliver alone, the only time human intervention is needed is when there are complications.

As for mixed breeds being healthier - hybrid vigor is a myth. If you breed (intentionally or accidentally) two dogs with a major genetic fault - hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia or a heart condition - you very well can and most likely will end up with puppies who are affected.

Happycats, I had to giggle when I read your post about boxers or ABD, drooling or foaming/frothing. I must be lucky with Brynn... she is not a drooler at all... ok, except when I am preparing her raw breakfast... then she tends to get a string of drool going on LOL :laughing: She does not have big, loose, flappy jowls though. :rolleyes:

LOL my neighbour had 2 boxers, and they would kinda "froth/foam" and thought it was great fun to wipe their "foam" on you when they passed by!!!:eek::yuck:
They do tend to "leak" when there is food around :D

My other neighbour had a young American Bull dog and she would shake and gob would fly!!:yuck:

:laughing: Happycats! Ya it is almost a sure thing that Brynn gets a little drool going on when I am preparing her raw breakfast... kibble in the PM not at all, but she just loves the raw this girl.

Oh, and Brynn must be THE dog for other dogs to wipe their slime on... everytime she leaves the off leash dog park, her back is covered in drool and froth haha! :laughing:

Anyways, sorry to take this thread off topic... back to the subject.

Thank you all for your responses, just to answer some of your questions...

I am a stay at home dad, so I have plenty of time and patients to put into the puppy, my wife was working, but had an injury at work, and is now at home as well. Due to a settlement from the accident, we have more than enough money to purchase the dog, any supplies we need further, as well as training/hospital bills. As to the socialization and home training issue, most of our friends have had dogs for many years and we have and still are, active in there lives. Several we helped raise from the time they fit in the palms of our hands as puppies, we were just never able to have our own previously due to always living in smaller apartments.

@clm: We recieved word on the apartment last night, we got it, and it has a very large back yard, large rooms, and extra wide halls so he wont take anything out with his tail.. I'm sorry I should have been more specific about the outdoors time.. We spend most days from about 10am till 3pm out and about town, we dont have a car, so we walk most places. The dog would be coming with us. Our own socialization usually takes place with visits with friends every other night or so, who also have dogs.. The comment about sometimes all day, sometimes a couple 20-30min walks, was the extreme side of the scale.. On average we spent 4-5 hrs a day outside in a place where our dog could easily accompany us, and another 2-4 hours at one of many friends places with dogs.

@LavenderRott: We are ONLY looking at quality breeders/kennels. We've decided if we are going to go with a purebred, we are gonna go all the way and have a beautiful show quality dog. We have decided we want to go with the Dogo Argentino, and have already researched multiple breeders within 5 hours driving of us. We chose the breed because of there beautiful looks, amazing build, and show quality/rarity combined with there great temperment.

We arent really open to a rescue dog atm.. My wife and son decided that if we wanted to get a dog, they wanted to start out with a puppy, so we could socialize and raise them ourselves, Plus they wanted the "cutsie" factor. Myself I prefer a mature dog over a puppy, but meh, what can ya do right? lol Ontop of which, one of our friends dogs isnt the greatest with meeting new mature friends, but every puppy she's been around, she takes to immediately, so that reduces more chances for problems in that area.

As to the other breeds suggested, I am not a real fan of bulldogs other than the AB, I dunno why, just think they look ugly.. no offense to lovers, I just dislike most others looks. Also, because I was looking for something that I felt would match with my own looks (I am 6'2" 315Lbs, very intimidating looking, have a deep voice, command respect with a look, but gentle, hidden deep on the inside) I was looking for something along the 'brick ****house' body type.. which labs dont fit with. I want something that looks dominating and yet is just as loveable and excitable as a kid.

M&J glad you have thought all of this out and goodluck with getting the perfect match for your family..Only suggestion i have to make is since you are going with a Dogo please also thoroughly research reputable trainers in your area and have them lined up for when the little one comes home. As a powerful breed you really do want to have as much knowledge behind you as possible.:thumbs up

something that requires hours and hours of outside time daily (Some days I will be out all day with him/her, others might be only for 20-30min walks a couple times a day for exercise, washroom breaks, etc)I find this a bit concerning. A dog that NEEDS (requires) hours and hours of outside time daily is not going to do well with only 20-30 min. walks. I take the liberty of assuming you mean this will be a regular thing or you wouldn't have mentionned it? We all know there are the odd times, once or twice a year, you just can't get the dog out.

I think it's either/or. Either high energy dog that REQUIRES exercise for hours and hours each and every day. Or lower energy requirement satisfied by a couple of 20-30 minute walks a day, every day. I wonder if the latter is more reasonable for a young family with a new house and lots of other demands on their time? Food for thought?

And remember - there is a huge difference between "reputable" and "ethical". A reputable breeder has a reputation for having nice show dogs. An ethical breeder breeds the whole dog - conformation, temperment AND genetics! You need to be sure that parents have been tested (by a SPECIALIST - not the family vet!) for genetic issues - hips, heart, elbows, etc. to be sure that you have the best chance possible of having a healthy dog.

I don't know, is it just me......I just think it's very odd to pick a dog to "match my looks" :shrug: There are so many other, more important factors.
You want your dog to look intmidating like you? Why? You want to scare people? Why?

I would like to post an update for anyone who was following this thread..

Our newest edition will be able to come home to his new family after the 18th, and we are more than excited to have him join us. While I still havent picked out a name yet, I do have more than a few, rambling around in my head, but I am waiting till he comes home to see which suits him more. I have most of the "puppy essentials" purchased already, and am going out this week to pick up the last couple things (crate, dishes, a few others).

I will be attempting to train him myself first, to help create the closeness required for the proper master/dog relationship.. Yes, I've been reading ALOT of cesar millan LOL I have also picked up the book Dogo Argentino: A Comprehensive Owner's Guide and read it cover to cover several times now. (God what a beautifully detailed and well put together book!) If I end up having any problems, there are a couple places in town that specialize in large breed training, though I hope it wont come to that.

@happycats: You seem to read too much into the way I word things lol I simply meant, I am a larger guy who looks kinda domineering.. I am looking for a dog that more matches my build/body type. Someone my size walking a tea cup poodle/chihuahua, or beagle.. might look kinda odd. Plus, yes, I would like a dog that kinda commands respect and a "dont mess with me" aura on sight. Dogs have always been considered the guardian/working pets, but they are also the lovable family pet who is by his masters side through thick and thin, sickness and health, loyalty to a fault... which is what draws me to them as pets.

Please send the Cesar stuff back! His training methods are based on overwhelming and dominating your dog and a Dogo is NOT a breed that will take well to that kind of rough/abusive handling.

Good Luck with your new pup and please be vigilant in training because Dogos can be a handful. You do not want a dog like my boy Clark who was never socialized outside his family and with other dogs. Clark is small for an AB but I am glad since he is very aggressive. He was given up because he bit the kid in the house when he tried to take a bone away from him and of course this was the dogs fault even though the parents were not in the room. No matter how much you trust your dog never ever leave the kid alone with the dog even for a minute. Please post pics as soon as possible I love these dogs they are so cute

Yes, I've been reading ALOT of cesar millan

A much better choice would be to check out the Dog Star Daily (http://www.dogstardaily.com/) website put out by veterinarian and certified animal behaviourist Dr. Ian Dunbar. He actually has the credentials to back up his concepts, unlike Cesar. The Before You Get Your Puppy (http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/your-education-about-puppy-education) section should be mandatory reading for all new dog owners, IMO.

While I commend you on your desire to train your dog, I strongly recommend a group training situation where your dog gets socialized as well. Especially for your first session. The training is just as much for the owner as for the dog. If you attempt to train on your own, and do it wrong your dog will get confused and not form the bond you are looking for. A good, positive reinforcement class will be much better to get you both off on the right foot. :thumbs up