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Pit-Bull ban in TO

chico2
August 31st, 2004, 07:23 AM
Anyone interested in protesting the proposed Pit-Bull ban and Pit-BullX can write Michael Bryant at michael.bryant@jus.gov.on.ca
and include"pit-bull"in the memo field.
He is the person suggesting the ban and I am certain a lot of people will support him in e-mails,anyone against the ban need to make their voices heard.
We all know BSL is not the answer,higher fines and jail-terms for the owners and bad breeders would make more sense.
Unfortunately it takes a person being attacked before it makes head-lines in the media and therefor an impossible law to enforce.
So,they ban pit-bulls,where do they go from there,GSD,Dobermans,Dalmatians,Rotties....how about banning some people from the streets of Toronto?

Spoiled
August 31st, 2004, 10:47 AM
I emailed them. This is what my email says:

Hello Michael,

I am disgusted with your idea of banning Pit-bulls. Pit-bulls aren't the problem, it is PEOPLE! These dogs were bred to never, never, EVER, bit a human. It is not the Pit-bull's fault that it gets a bad rap, it is bad breeders and bull fighters. Sorry, but banning this breed is wrong. Have you ever notice that any dog who attacks that is shorthaird is called a Pit-bull? Even if the dog is a Boxer, Great Dane, Mastif, Lab, Retriever, or a breed not even heard of, it is called a Pit-bull by the press. What does the press know? Are the people who run newspapers, write articals, or take pictures dog experts? I hardly think so. I doubt they would know very many dog breeds. Maybe the common ones, like Poodles or Retrievers. Yet they use the power they have to make headlines that scream "PIT-BULL ATTACKS MAN!" or "PIT-BULL KILLS CHILD!" or the famous "TWO PIT-BULLS ATTACK OWNER!" And how would the press know that this is right? They don't. Way, way more times the dog is NOT a Pit-bull or anything that is half like a Pit-bull. Explain how that happens. Pit-bulls are one of the most loving dogs. Some do pet therapy and are awesome at it, they make wonderful search and rescue dogs, they are terrific pets because of their mellow personality. And what do they get in return for saving lives, loving children, bringing seniors happieness and bringing people who don't talk to talk again? They get to be banned, hated, lied about by newspapers, all sorts of horrible things.

To think that you support this is nasty.

I don't think it is nessisary or right.

I hope you will consider the truths in this email and do not go through with the ban in Toronto.

Thank you

Babs
August 31st, 2004, 10:58 AM
I sent the following letter:

Dear Mr. Bryant,

I understand you are considering proposing Breed Specific Legislation for consideration in the Toronto area. I note this consideration comes close on the heels of the recent attack involving a man walking his dog being attacked by several Pit Bulls near Church Street.

Before you pursue BSL as an avenue, I would implore you to please consider harsher punishment upon individuals who house and bring up animals specifically to be used as weapons. Studies on dog bites in cities where BSL has been introduced have not proved to reduce the incidents of dog bites, the only thing that has changed is that the breed in question is no longer the one biting. Obviously, because they have been removed or restrained from society.

Dog bites are indeed a serious issue to any Municipality. The reality is, every dog has the potential to bite. The only thing that prevents a dog from biting is proper care and training. Dogs learn by positive reinforcement and repitition. If you deprive a dog from positive influences, and support that with repetative incidents of negative actions, any dog is capable of not only biting, but killing. Statistics have shown that even a Dachshund has killed a human, an infant.

This is not to say that people should not own dogs. Dogs, including Pit Bulls, have proven to be a very positive part of society. Some have worked in professions such as rescue, law enforcement, assisting the elderly and disabled, and most importantly, they provide companionship.

The true problem is the irresponsible and/or cruel owner. Where there are people who will purchase guns and knives for the purpose of killing another human being, there are people who purchase dogs for this very same purpose. These people want to terrorize others for selfish reasons. Irresponsible owners are selfish in that they may feel they are purchasing a dog for companionship, but deprive that dog from proper socialization, training and upbringing that it needs in order to be a good canine citizine. Through this ignorance, again a dog can become aggressive in nature.

I would like to refer you to a document called, "An Enlightened Approach to Companion Animal Control for Canadian Municipalities", written by the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies, which has been published at http://www.cfhs.ca/Programs/Legislation/bylaws1.htm. This document proposes municipal legislation for effective control and reduction of dog bites. The approach it takes is one where instead of penalizing animals which quite often are upstanding members of society capable of many good deeds, it suggests severe punishment of individuals who are unwilling or incapable of properly training and housing dogs.

I am sure that you would agree, that if an individual was to face a fine of $10,000.00 for a mere dog bite incident, that people would think twice before buying an animal they don't have the time or inclination to train. In addition to this, criminals who wish to keep dogs as weapons may think twice before doing so. This is not to say that weapons are never concealed, but a dog is much harder to hide than a gun.

If you were to investigate reports where dog bites and injuries have taken place, you will most commonly discover that:

a) The dog was kept under relatively cruel situations, (chained in yards, enclosed dark areas, or in penned outdoor areas with little human contact); and/or
b) Lived in relatively good conditions, but left alone a great deal of time with very little or no training whatsoever; and/or
c) Was trained specifically for the purpose of fighting other dogs, or other people through severe mistreatment;

If we start today by banning one breed, that breed will be replaced tomorrow by a different breed. The problem will not end when every breed of dog has been inevitably eliminated. Until people are properly, and severely punished for how they raise animals, this problem will not go away.

Please reconsider your position on BSL, and please consider eliminating the problem at it's root. It starts with bad ownership. Stricter laws on the human offenders through fines and/or jail time, and stronger enforcement in terms of controlling who can buy, and most importantly sell dogs, is required.

Thank you for taking the time to review my comments.

sammiec
August 31st, 2004, 11:13 AM
Nice work ladies! I hate talking about this issue right now, it's been so in-my-face for the last couple of days. I am glared at and whispered about constantly while waiting for the elevator, walking, etc. It's sadly enough very emotionally draining, but I would never trade one single moment of it. Fortunately, if they do push this BSL they will be tackling the largest city in this country and as most know, people of T.O. are hard bums and will not take this lying down.

Babs
August 31st, 2004, 11:22 AM
Does anyone here know anything about writing Press pieces? I think we need to start educating the masses on the true problems.

The media only cares about selling newspapers, and unfortunately Pit Bulls are a hot topic because of the human desire to read about gorey, terrifying content. After all, a dachshund attack would seem more comedic than frightening, and doesn't have anywhere near the impact.

There has to be a way we can get a newspaper to publish an article that properly educates society about the true nature of all dog attacks. The Globe and Mail has nationwide audience...

Anyone know any contacts?

Babs
August 31st, 2004, 11:23 AM
Also, what about organizing a public protest at City Hall? Every Pit owner could rally on a specified date?

sammiec
August 31st, 2004, 11:27 AM
Globe and Mail has nationwide audience...
Unfortunately I find that the Globe and Mail and the National Post are very biased and one sided, for them to cover a postive spin on Pit Bulls might go against everything that they believe in...The Star, The Sun and CP24 - they are ALWAYS willing to explore a little more, but would it be taken seriously? CP24 did a piece last night about positive pit bulls and talked with a man that had two. They were running and playing - VERY friendly dogs, but the polls still show a 2800 to 1600 vote for YES to banning pit bulls...

LavenderRott
August 31st, 2004, 11:29 AM
Point me to the poll! I have lots of friends on line and may be able to get those no numbers a little higher.

sammiec
August 31st, 2004, 11:31 AM
We actually missed it! They only had it running yesterday from like 10 to 4 or something. There were ALOT of responses to their story and they showed a very neutral story - that I was very surprised and happy about.

Babs
August 31st, 2004, 12:56 PM
Anyone living in the Toronto area, PLEASE, print these out and paste them up all over town. Bulletin boards, lamp-posts, pet stores, on people's cars, at work... everywhere.

The media has their newspapers to get the fear spread, and the only way we can fight it is with positive press. If the media wants to work against us, we need to be our own media.

I would like to also make a poster campaign for "Please Don't Kill My Best Friend!". If anyone has any pit bull pictures with young children, and would not mind providing them for this cause, please provide me the highest res image you've got!

Here's the images. Download the PDF file above each picture to get the printable verson.

Poster Version 1

http://www.babayaaga.com/images/bslposter_to_1.pdf
http://www.babayaaga.com/images/bslposter_to_1.jpg


Poster Version 2

http://www.babayaaga.com/images/bslposter_to_2.pdf
http://www.babayaaga.com/images/bslposter_to_2.jpg

krdahmer
August 31st, 2004, 05:26 PM
So,they ban pit-bulls,where do they go from there,GSD,Dobermans,Dalmatians,Rotties....how about banning some people from the streets of Toronto?

Ya exactly....I know of a hell of a lot more people than animals that pose a threat to society....I mean at least an animal CAN be trained!!!!!

melanie
August 31st, 2004, 06:06 PM
funny but humans can be far more vicious and evil than any dog, i have known to be very vicious in my time, well why not ban me?? i seriously think banning me would be a far better action than these dogs.
STUPID HUMAN EGO

proudpittyowner
August 31st, 2004, 06:09 PM
Not only can you email michael bryant but email your city councillors you can aquire all there contact info from the city of toronto home page, these are the people who discuss municiple bylaws in our city and they definatley need to be aware of the pros and cons to a breed ban, if there are any pros that is. I think a protest should be organized or something for that matter, interviews with media from responsible owners who can educate the public help from city by law officers to find ways to enforce, any avenue is a avenue worth searching if it will affect the life of our furry friends. now lets all get out there and make some noise on this issue :D

chico2
August 31st, 2004, 06:44 PM
Proudpittyowner,I found in talking to people a disturbing trend,most were for a pit ban,people who have only heard bad stories.
There is young man on my street,he dresses completely in black,has a black pittie with a giant studded color.The dog is beautiful and incredibly obedient,but just the sight of them makes people afraid.
Premier McGuinty was on the news tonight and he said he's ready to listen to all sides,the good and the bad and would probably make a ban for ALL of Ontario,if at all.
He also said,there was not going to be a masskilling of Pits,but he would require all pit-owners to have them registered with the police and if in public to wear a muzzle.Also if a pit attacks there would be a 10.000 fine.
Something needs to be done about BAD pitowners,usually a criminal element,who do not LOVE their animals,but uses them as a dangerous weapon.
But how would they go about finding these unfortunate dogs :confused:

Babs
August 31st, 2004, 06:48 PM
Emailing officials won't hurt, but it might not make a loud enough voice either.

These men that sit on City Council have this privilage by the voting public. They are not only going to do what is in the best interests of public safety, but they are going to do it in a way that the public feels is safest.

The problem is, right now the public has been misled by the Media.

Media makes money by selling papers. Dog attack stories sell papers, and specifically if they are said to be Pit Bulls. Originally this probably started as an honest mistake, since it is extremely difficult to properly identify dog breeds when their breeding history isn't available. Vets make mistakes, SPCA's make mistakes, the Police make mistakes and most commonly, the Media makes mistakes when trying to classify a dog's breed.

Eventually, it has both made sense, and been financially profitable from a news perspective to identify ALL attacking short-haired dogs to be "Pit Bulls" or "Pit Bull Crosses". What has ensued is massive, ignorant hysteria.

There was a thread a while ago back that tested people's ability to identify a Pit Bull, and it was very telling. Check it out for yourself. Can you tell which one of these is a Pit Bull?

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

If Toronto is successful passing this breed ban, it won't be long before the rest of the province, and probably country follows suit. Ontario is looking at passing provincial BSL in fact.

Toronto is a highly influencial city in Canada. If this ban passes, and as more and more cities and provinces follow suit, one breed, and several mistakenly identified dogs will be subjected to a massive holocaust, but the bite statistics won't go down.

In a few years, it will be a different breed in the spotlight... then another... and another... eventually all dogs will be outlawed.

It's up to every one of us to start giving the public the truth. We need to not only speak out against it between ourselves... we are all on the same page! But we are the minority, because we are educated and know the truth. It's time to do our part.

If every one of us was to print off 12 posters and put them up, and tell at least one friend to do the same thing, and to tell their friend, this campaign will spread fast... and hopefully diffuse the ticking time bomb in time.

melanie
August 31st, 2004, 06:51 PM
muzzled in public, that is not fair and downright cruel if you ask me, if a dog was attacked it would never be able to defend itself. and it is the responsible owners that will be hit by these changes, not the creeps abusing the animals, so sad.

QUOTE'There is young man on my street,he dresses completely in black,has a black pittie with a giant studded color.The dog is beautiful and incredibly obedient,but just the sight of them makes people afraid'.

now that is really sad, we still live in a world where you will be judged not by your heart but by your dress sense or how you are presented, i sadly thought we were becoming an open minded world and a bit more tolerant and accepting of different ppl, sadly i am totally wrong..how can any animal have a chance in this world, if we cannot accept different ppl and diff personalities i dont hold out much hope for animals.... :o

Kona Dawg
August 31st, 2004, 07:14 PM
Here's a really interesting link (http://www.goodpooch.com/MediaBriefs/GPcanineprimer.htm)
to check out, mabey even send it to the media,
and city councilors.

LavenderRott
August 31st, 2004, 08:03 PM
Just remember, your letters must be fact based and non-emotional. Don't call people names or question their intelligence. The link that Babs enclosed in her letter is an excellent link with lots of ideas for non-breed specific legislation. The dogs that attacked the gentleman walking them this weekend were NOT licensed properly and had NOT been vaccinated. These laws need better enforcement. If the laws that were on the books could be enforced, new laws would not be needed.

And don't forget the expense of enforcing these new laws.

Things to think about.

proudpittyowner
August 31st, 2004, 08:28 PM
what a great idea i have already downloaded and iam off to my campus tommorow to print off a tonne of them, i will be hitting the downtown streets with these ASAP, i hope this campaign reaches atleast a few :)

chico2
August 31st, 2004, 09:59 PM
Premier McGuinty's portrait of a pitbull:
1.They are bread to be vicious.
2.They never let go,can feel no pain.
3.They have tho most powerful jaws of any dog.
4.Do we really need these dogs in our society?
This is exactly what he said on the 6 o'clock news,but he also admitted to not knowing enough and welcomed opinions.

rexdoggieowner
August 31st, 2004, 10:06 PM
i am TOTALLY for NOT KILLING these poor doggies... but if you think about it, pit bulls where created by in world war 2 ... they were created to KILL people. that is there nature. if you argue this, why did that 15 year old pit bull kill a baby a while back in toronto... it just one day just attacked the baby and bit his head. they have a nature to kill... that is my understanding of pit bulls. please do not think that i am a " bad" person for thinking this and do not take it personal, its just my views on it, as of now that is. and people ARE the ones to blame cause many people breed them for " pit bull fighting" and gambling..

Luba
August 31st, 2004, 10:21 PM
I'm disgusted at what I've heard this uninformed and uneducated individuals in politics say about the breed.

The only positive thing I heard the last couple of days was on City TV
Pam Seatle met with some owners and their pbt's in a park today and was obviously enjoying herself. Not to mention she's obviously preggos :D and not afraid to be around the dogs.

She indicated in her story the logistics of how difficult it is to actually 'prove' it was a pitbull that did the attacks and she made a great saying even better by broadcasting it like she did 'punish the deed not the breed'

I was very happy with her story.

Not so happy with Mr McGuinty (the little twerp reminds me of Norman Bates lol) and also not happy with the Toronto Mayor David Miller who thought banning in Toronto wasn't good enough. He'd like to see it go province wide.

Everyone gets on the band wagon when they don't really know what they're talking about, such a shame. To even have the animal control of Kitchener/Waterloo indicate how 'happy' he is with the ban in Kitchener.
Another twerp.

chico2
September 1st, 2004, 07:33 AM
Luba,I saw that too and it was very well done..but the politicians will not go against the masses and apparently there are more people for a ban than against.
I does not matter that the majority of pits are excellent companions and family-dogs,the ill will against pits will remain.
The mere name"Pit-Bulls"is unfair and sends shivers down most peoples spines,since Pit-Bulls is not a breed,but could include any fighting dog,it's time to call the pits what they are.
I admit,I have very little knowledge about specific breeds of dogs,but no dogs should be banned because of owners stupidity.
One good thing about City-Tv,they will always have an unbiased opinion,sometimes controversial,they do not worry about politics but says it like it is.

LavenderRott
September 1st, 2004, 11:33 AM
i am TOTALLY for NOT KILLING these poor doggies... but if you think about it, pit bulls where created by in world war 2 ... they were created to KILL people. that is there nature. if you argue this, why did that 15 year old pit bull kill a baby a while back in toronto... it just one day just attacked the baby and bit his head. they have a nature to kill... that is my understanding of pit bulls. please do not think that i am a " bad" person for thinking this and do not take it personal, its just my views on it, as of now that is. and people ARE the ones to blame cause many people breed them for " pit bull fighting" and gambling..

I think you need to do more research. I have never read anything about the "breed" being developed as killer dogs during WW2. These dogs have been around for hundreds of years and were used as fighting dogs. They are to be dog aggressive but NEVER and I do mean NEVER bite a person. The owner had to be able to handle the dog under any circumstances. Any dog that was aggressive towards humans was destroyed as quickly as a dog that wouldn't fight.

As for why a pit bull killed a baby a while back in Toronto, since I do not know which case you are talking about, I can't say. I do know that most dogs that bite fall into 2 catagories.

1. It has an unaddressed health issue causing pain. Since these dogs are bred to fight, the dog would have to be in a LOT of pain for this to be the reason.

2. The dog is untrained, unsocialized, unvetted, unregistered.

You will also find that in several cases, the dog's owners had been ticketed before, or were wanted by police for unrelated things. One such case that comes to mind is the young boy that was killed this spring and the mailman tried to intervene. The attack happened in the back yard and the boy's father was in the house. He screamed at the mailman for taking a swing at his dogs - while his son lay dying in his yard! A subsequent search of the man's house revealed several pounds of illegal drugs and several automatic weapons - unregistered, of course.

melanie
September 1st, 2004, 05:04 PM
i dont want to sound harsh, but i am trying to keep informative and dispell several myths through this argument. do not take it personally, i am not attacking you etc but please consider the following-

QUOTE 'i am TOTALLY for NOT KILLING these poor doggies... but if you think about it, pit bulls where created by in world war 2 ... they were created to KILL people. that is there nature. if you argue this, why did that 15 year old pit bull kill a baby a while back in toronto... it just one day just attacked the baby and bit his head. they have a nature to kill... that is my understanding of pit bulls. '

of course, i did not see it before, it is totally the dogs fault, forget the parents they are just the friggin victims. actually no dog should be left unattended with a child full stop. in australia (NSW dont know other states) you can not leave a child under the age of 12 unsupervised with a dog, its in the companion animals act. but obviously you dont have these laws.

Quote'if you argue this, why did that 15 year old pit bull kill a baby a while back in toronto... "
because some dogs can be nasty and some idiots leave a baby unsupervised, and it is generally the fault of that dogs owner. there is never a bad dog, just a bad owner. and if pits were such 'killers' why are they a common dog used in rescue and therapy?? why would they be used to save lives if they were killers, why would they go into hospitals and do marvelous things whilst showing no signs of agression or that 'killer instinct' when they are being company to old and frail ppl?.

you said the dog was 15yo, well even i know children should be watched very carefully around old dogs, old dogs are frail and can have physical probs, not only illness but blindness, and hearing loss, these factors may contribute to a reason why that happened.

Quote'dont think that i am a " bad" person for thinking this and do not take it personal, its just my views on it, as of now that is'.

well it is important to have an opinion and i dont think you bad for sharing it, just very misinformed. i did not take what you said personally but i found it to be totally unfounded, not based on fact and a form of scare mongering which is how this reputation started in the first place, perhaps you should get to know a pit or pit owner and actually form an opinion on a live dog and owner.
perhaps you should pm lucky rescue, she can give you a mile of founded and experienced facts of this breed based on her s and others personal experiences.

ps i had my face torn open by poodles as a small child, those dogs were vicious and took to me fast, well perhaps they are just bred to kill as well, maybe you are saying any dog kills therfore it is bred that way?? i have heard of poodles attacking many times, is this an indication of their killer instincts??
food for thought

Babs
September 1st, 2004, 07:34 PM
You know, this inspires an angle.

If the polititians themselves concede that Pit Bull is not a recognized breed in Canada...

And since we know how hard it is to identify dog breeds, particularly mixes...

Let them prove our dogs are anything else but!

Pit Bull? No, I own a boxer cross! =p. The SPCA may call it a Pit Bull, but I have 2 Vets who say otherwise.

So until you can prove me wrong, you can't take away my pet. It's not affected.

Imagine if every Pit Bull owner responded this way to a ban, and imagine the costs of proving every owner wrong in court.

Babs
September 1st, 2004, 07:40 PM
Rex,

Pit Bulls were around a few decades before WW2. Petey in "The Little Rascals" was a Pit.

The WW2 dog you're thinking about was Stubby, and was further a recognized War Hero, earning several medals and recieving honours at the White House. Stubby's face became a mascot for USA War Advertisements.

MBRA518
September 2nd, 2004, 08:02 AM
I DO NOT agree with a breed ban - I do however agree that the Pit bull breeds can be dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced or cruel owner. For this reason I think that all pit bulls (and any large dog) should be licensed and the owners educated as to how to properly train and socialize these dogs so that they can remain good canine citizens. I also think that any dog who attacks unprovoked should be PTS. This is not a requirement in Ontario now - I don't see how the government can condone PTS a wonderful family pet because he's a pit bull and allow the owner of another dog who HAS bit a person to keep his dog as long as he wears a muzzle in public... that's ridiculous!

LavenderRott
September 2nd, 2004, 10:10 AM
All laws that are put into place need to affect all dogs equally. Not just large dogs. The dog mostly likely to bite on my street right now is the darn chi mix that lives across the street.

I think the part that gets me most about this whole thing is that everyone is trying to regulate the dogs! It is the dog owner that needs to be looked at. A vast majority of dogs that have bitten are unneutered males, unregistered, unvaccinated, unsocialized and untrained! Well, the dog can't neuter himself, take himself to the police department for his take, get himself to the vet for his shots, socialize himself at the park or take himself to classes for training! People are responsible. Make the punishment tougher for people who let their dogs run loose and attack someone or something. Owners of dogs that kill other animals off of their property should be charged with criminal animal cruelty with mandatory jailtime. Owners of dogs that attack people should be charged with attempted murder. Dogs that kill people, owners should be charged with murder. Oh, if your dog wanders into my yard and my dog kills it, guess what YOU get to go to jail for criminal animal cruelty.

MAKE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE!

rexdoggieowner
September 2nd, 2004, 11:04 AM
The " killer" dogs were not used by the USA, but of the German army.

Thanks for giving me more info on this breed. It just seems to me that you hear more of pit bull fighting and attacks then anyother breed, especially on the news. That is why people are usually scared of them. Yes, i believe that there are bad owners, not bad dogs.. some people get pit bulls to be aggressive and protective, those are the bad owners cause they teach and breed the dogs to be aggressive.

Not everyone can know so much about breeds, and do not take the time to do so, so they just follow the media and the news to inform them about such cases. and if all they see on tv is pit bull attacks, what else are they suppose to think about that breed ?!

i never heard of many poddle attacks.

"Oh, if your dog wanders into my yard and my dog kills it, guess what YOU get to go to jail for criminal animal cruelty." what if the dog ran away ?!

"Make the punishment tougher for people who let their dogs run loose and attack someone or something." I agree to that-- depending on the circumstances of course.

"Petey in "The Little Rascals" was a Pit "-- wasn't that film made after WW2 ?!


"because some dogs can be nasty and some idiots leave a baby unsupervised, and it is generally the fault of that dogs owner."-- okay, do not agree with that at all... if you have an older pit bull that you have had for 15 years, don't you trust it ?! would you watch your dog EVERY SECOND ?!, say if you went to the kitchen for one minute, you trained this dog every good and he never showed signs of agressiveness..just that one day.. and the kid was like 2 years old to my belief..

LavenderRott
September 2nd, 2004, 11:24 AM
I have had my 10 year old dog for 7 years. She was an angel with my son 6 years ago. I never left my son in a room with her unattended though. And I wouldn't leave a toddler alone with her today. Too many things can happen.

"Oh, if your dog wanders into my yard and my dog kills it, guess what YOU get to go to jail for criminal animal cruelty." what if the dog ran away ?!

If my rottie ran away and killed your dog, you would expect something to happen to me or my dog, wouldn't you? When the pit bulls last month killed the little dog in the yard, there wasn't a whisper about the irresponsiblity of the little dogs owner, just the usual media frenzy over a pit bull attack on the little dog. For all we know, they let the little dog run loose all the time. But hey, that's ok. It is a little dog after all and they don't do much damage.

rexdoggieowner
September 2nd, 2004, 11:29 AM
why does the media hate pit bulls so much ?!

does the government look at the owner as well ?! i thought they already do that

sammiec
September 2nd, 2004, 11:35 AM
why does the media hate pit bulls so much ?!

Rexxie, I don't thin it's that the media hates pit bulls, they thrive on them simply because society is fixated on violence and crime. Usually the media follows the simple rule of "If there's blood, it leads". Pit bull attacks generate ALOT of money for these media outlets, many of the attacks are reported to be very violent and grusome, that's why people pay attention.

Babs
September 2nd, 2004, 11:38 AM
The media cares about one thing over anything else... money.

The news they print is selected over thousands of different stories that take place each day. What they print has to have high impact in order to sell newspapers.

It isn't so much that they hate Pit Bulls, there is more money to be made in projecting a terrifying image of them for the sake of the current controversy.

If we can provide the media with a different controversy that will sell more papers, they will report that angle instead.

I'm currently investigating actual dog bite statistics in Kitchener. I haven't yet started with Winnepeg. What I'm learning is disgusting. Kitchener has absolutely no complete data regarding Dog Bites between the years of 1995 and 2004, the period I am looking at. The only data it does have is collected for the purpose of identifying the spread of Rabies. They only ask if it was a dog that was responsible for the bite... they never ask about the breed.

What this means, is that they are only hearing about a small percentage of dog bites. Of those, they are not collecting breed-specific data.

Yet, officials in Kitchener are raving about the success of BSL. They claim specifically, "the number of Pit Bull attacks has decreased dramatically". Well, no wonder. When there are no Tigers in a city, there will be no Tiger bites either!

Babs
September 2nd, 2004, 11:44 AM
"Petey in "The Little Rascals" was a Pit "-- wasn't that film made after WW2 ?!"

The film was made in recent years, but the original TV show aired in the 30's. Some channels still show it. It was also known as "Our Gang".

sammiec
September 2nd, 2004, 11:50 AM
Babs, there are so many threads here about pits and the BSL - I can't remember where you asked for pics of pits with kids....here is a link to a site that has tons of them!!

Cutie pies (http://pitbulls.iwarp.com/photo.html)

Babs
September 2nd, 2004, 12:40 PM
Thanks Sam!! Looking to where I can get owner permission, unfortunately the site says don't copy without permission :(

Spoiled
September 2nd, 2004, 02:47 PM
A vast majority of dogs that have bitten are unneutered males, unregistered, unvaccinated, unsocialized and untrained! Well, the dog can't neuter himself, take himself to the police department for his take, get himself to the vet for his shots, socialize himself at the park or take himself to classes for training!

EXACTLY! You just made a point that is so true.

Iggette
September 2nd, 2004, 03:36 PM
hey babs sorry I haven't had alot of time on my hands to sit and read/reply to as many threads as i would like...........I just got to this thread today and got as far as your request for pics of small children with pits.

I hope I'm not to late when do you need them by?

I have a girlfriend who may have just what you need, I'm not sure but I bet she does. She had a Pitbull named Stoney and a Bull mastiff named Baby. Both dogs were owned from pups till death (sadly they think they were both poisened) She also has a daughter that grew up around these dogs from infancy which leads me to believe she just must have a few pics. The only problem is she just moved this last weekend and locating them might be a task but I will do my best :)

After thought:....oh yes and I'll need her permission :o

chico2
September 3rd, 2004, 07:20 AM
Well,now Chief Julien Fantino has joined the yay sayers.
He in his regular monotone voice(he has about as much charm as a turnip :D )told about the danger of large aggressive dogs to his men in blue and he is all for a pittie ban.
So maybe in the near future we'll see Poodle Police-Dogs(no offence Den-Den!!).
The whole idea of banning any living thing,stinks of Genocide....not a word in the paper this morning,but that usually means a by-law is quieltly going to be passed :mad:

sammiec
September 3rd, 2004, 07:32 AM
Thanks Sam!! Looking to where I can get owner permission, unfortunately the site says don't copy without permission :(

I emailed her for permission - I'll let you know! :)

Babs
September 3rd, 2004, 01:22 PM
Ohh Iggette if she has any they would be most useful!

Specifically, I was hoping to find a shot where the child was holding his/her pet, and pouting. I'm looking for a picture which almost cries out, "don't take my doggie away!"

meggie1425
September 3rd, 2004, 02:40 PM
Im so mad right now :mad: I went out for lunch with my parents today, and we started talking about the whole pit bull ban thing. It turns out that they are for it!! :eek: And as much as i tried to convince them, they wouldnt change their minds, they were convinced (from the media) that all pit bulls are evil and people killers :mad: Well, that just ruined my whole day!

Iggette
September 3rd, 2004, 02:40 PM
I'll do my best, she hasn't answered my email yet, But I am seeing her tonight in T.O. so I will ask her then

best of luck in your campaign you are doing a great think for all dogs in the future

RuffNTumble
September 3rd, 2004, 10:58 PM
You know, it's funny because just a few days ago, I was having this very conversation with a friend of mine about dog biting. She was saying, although not proudly, that her Jack Russell Terrier has bitten, and drawn blood out of everyone the dog has come in contact with (myself included, thank you very much). To me, that is a problem. And yet, no one would ever ban Jack Russell terriers. The Honourable Mr. McGuinty (I have to call him that, he's kinda my boss :o ) said something about pitbulls "not letting go".. well, they can't! Some moron way back when thought it would be GREAT for fighting if the dog couldn't physically let go if its teeth weren't touching. Enter lockjaw, the most ANNOYING feature a pit can have, especially to a vet technician who accidentally got bitten during a routine exam, and the dog had to be put under, its jaw dislocated and put back, all the while my friend is sitting there, annoyed, and the dog looked more scared than anything else! He also said something about an angry or aggressive Chihuaua is not a problem. I disagree. ANY dog who is aggressive is a problem, no matter the size. They can still jump at your throat and do a number on your carotid or jugular. Granted, you might be able to slap them away easier than a pit, but it's still as dangerous.
Small dogs bite ALL the time, but who's going to want to read that? Pitbulls are the hot issue right now, because of "male machismo" and "tough guy" images. Big dogs have big jaws, therefore big bites, but there are far fewer large breed bites than small breed, but you'd never know it!
How about irresponsible breeders who sell these dogs to these people in the first place? If a twenty-something punk showed up at my door and demanded one of my puppies, I'd kick him to the curb. My favourite story is my best friend worked in a Pet Valu store, and this stupid idiot came in to get a weight collar (to make the neck stronger) for his 11 month old pitbull. She YELLED At him in the store, swearing and cursing, and kicked him out of the store. AND she didn't get fired, because her boss agreed with her. The dog was still a puppy, and he could cause permanent damage, but he wanted a "tough" dog. These people are being sold dogs by breeders? By stores? THey're allowed to rescue? HELLO????? How about inbreeders who cut corners and end up with unstable dogs with mental disabilities and instabilities? It's not just pits and rots anymore, it's golden retreivers and labs! Whatever's popular! There are growing numbers of goldies snapping at kids, and yet, no one reads about them, no one writes about them. But that pitbull down the street? The one that is so friendly that it's tail will probably break his own legs one day from waggins so hard! The one whose tongue is hanging out in a goofy grin, the one who walks on lead like he was born on it? Yeah, that dog'll kill someone one day. Some dumbass kid who'll come running to the dog and blow in its face because it's "funny". Some kid whose parents are going to leave him alone with the dog to pull on it whiskers, slap it's face or pull it's tail. It's not so much not to trust the dog with the kid, it's the kid with the dog. I don't let kids near my dog anymore. They do the STUPIDEST things when it comes to dogs, and I will not be held responsible for some stupid kid running at my dog while I'm walking her. I mind my business, mind your own. I choose to own a mastiff because I love them and they are gentle dogs. But any animal when provoked will defend itself. God knows humans do. We have enough stabbings in Toronto to prove that.
Mr. Fantino, solve our violence problem between each other, THEN tackle our "dog problems." I have enough to worry about with the thought that my dog will be taken away from me and put to sleep for being what she is. You will have to bring me down before you take my dog.

Ruffy

Babs
September 4th, 2004, 01:18 AM
I can honestly say that I've never seen a pit bull bite. This "biting and never letting go" thing, I have seen with my parent's Llasa Apso, however. A determined, scared animal is not going to stop until it calms down.

Ever see a cat play with a mouse or a bird? Same thing. It's animalistic behaviour... instinctive.

The best "trick" I ever taught my dog was not to bite. This "trick" I very much do believe has worked, because even with 4 people including 2 strangers holding her down to clip her nails at the Vet's office... something she is TERRIFIED of... she didn't bite.

Place your hand in the dog's mouth (works best with puppies), and loudly cry out "YIPE!". Puppies work best because they habitually bite when they are young, largely due to teething. EVERY time you catch them nipping, repeat the "YIPE!". This is a sound dogs recognize because it is a familiar canine sound... literally you have to yipe like a dog, and loudly.

They immediately stop what they're doing, heads perk up, ears perk up, and they look quizzically at you... every time you do it. Eventually, the dog will turn it's head away when you try to put your hand, or foot, or arm, or any part of your body in the dog's mouth. It instinctively associates this with the "YIPE!", and avoids it.

I learned this from my husband's aunt, who used it on her dogs and swore by it. Now I swear by it too.

Simple, effective little trick that if everyone knew about... would result in less dog bites.

chico2
September 4th, 2004, 09:12 AM
It's been a very sad summer for animals in this province,masskilling of coons and foxes,Cormorants and deer,I can just sit down and cry over the way animals are treated in this province and now pit-bulls..
Having always been a Liberal voter,especially since the Harris goons,I am starting to believe the description of McGuinty as a "kitten-eater"is not that far from the truth.
McGuinty,chief Fantino and mayor Miller are spineless morons,even if they believed the proposed bylaw to be unfair,they would never go against the masses.
I have absolute ZERO experience with pits,but if I had one,or if anyone would even attempt to take my dog/cat away from me,someone would be hurt seriously.
There is a POSITIVE full-page write up about pits in todays Toronto Star,it seems intelligent animal proffesionals are firmly behind halting any ban of any breed.
RuffnTumble....very good post.
As for Jack Russels,my son has one,she's really cute,but my son gets a great kick out of her growling or launching at a bigger dog,maybe he'll learn a lesson if she gets hurt one day :mad:

meggie1425
September 4th, 2004, 09:39 AM
Does anyone know if they wantto ban pit bull mixes too??

LavenderRott
September 4th, 2004, 10:47 AM
Sorry, hun. "Pit Bull" is a pretty generic term usually covering Staffordshire Terriers, American Pit Bull Terriers and any mix there of.

Bugsy
September 4th, 2004, 11:26 AM
Hi everyone

Any news on Pitt Crew?

RuffNTumble
September 5th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Thanks Chico2.. I tend to ramble a little when I get on the topic of animal attacks. My husband and I get into yelling matches sometimes. Usually over wild animals though. Pets can be trained.. let me rephrase that, pets HAVE to be trained. I was reading a training book (useful, but mostly for puppies, and my Chewy's a stubborn, defiant adolescent now!!) that said that millions of pets are put down in shelters in the US, and the only thing wrong with them is that they were never trained properly, and became "too much." Think about it, millions of healthy animals put to sleep because their owners thought they looked SO cute in the store (that's another thread.. going on right now, actually!! ;) ) but "didn't have the time" or "The kids said it would be their responsability" or "he/she will grow out of it". (HAHAHAHA, that last one makes me LAUGH.. do they really believe that??)
Dogs shouldn't have to be licensed, owners should. You need a license to drive a car, how about owning a dog? Some can be dangerous, and I don't think they over-exagerrate when they say they can be used as weapons, they certainly can if trained that way. With all these breeders and shelters and organizations saying "dogs adopted to 'qualified' families", what does that mean, exactly? Anyone with enough cash to pay the adoption fee?
How do all these "young men" end up with dogs that, as we all know, cost over a thousand dollars in stores, and just under that in the papers? I have a good job, but part of the reason why I don't adopt from breeders is the high cost. I would rather save my money for insurance, proper food and care and rescue a dog that needs help. Sadly, like all those pitbulls in shelters out there. Or maybe if our twits in charge have it their way, they'll just disappear all together.

But I wonder, will we also ban visiting pitbulls? Will we have special dog customs where visitors from abroad of other provinces or the US will have to prove that their dog is not a pitbull, and if it is, will our tax dollars go to the boarding and care of these dogs while their owners enjoy our fine province? Sure, we can make sure Ontarians don't have them, but what about our neighbours? Anyone mention that? Of course, "we can't control everyone" might be their answer, but their "vicious, aggressive dogs" will act the same whether they're Québécois or American, no? Wonder if they bite with an accent... :p

Ruffy

Don't ban pitbulls, ban stupid irresponsible people. THAT, my friends, I would put my tax dollars towards in a heart beat!

Writing4Fun
September 11th, 2004, 09:55 AM
[QUOTE=chico2]Anyone interested in protesting the proposed Pit-Bull ban and Pit-BullX can write Michael Bryant at michael.bryant@jus.gov.on.ca and include"pit-bull"in the memo field.[QUOTE]

Has anyone else gotten a "form letter" reply from this guy? I did. :rolleyes:

chico2
September 11th, 2004, 10:35 AM
I wrote him,but got no reply.
It seems the media is really LOOKING for pits who attack,almost every day lately there is a story about pitties and not positive ones.Today in the Star a girlfriend got attacked by her boyfriends pittie.
All to add fuel to the fire..
If I owned a pit-bull I would be outraged and worried,I certainly feel for all good responsible owners.

sammiec
September 11th, 2004, 10:42 AM
Here's my letter:

Thank you for your e-mail regarding a province-wide ban of pit bulls in
Ontario.

The McGuinty government is concerned about community safety, in particular
the danger pit bulls pose to people and their pets. Letters and media
reports about pit bull attacks have raised questions about whether the
province should consider banning these dogs.

Some legal protections are already in place. Municipalities already can ban
pit bulls under the Municipal Act. For example, the City of Kitchener has a
bylaw prohibiting residents from owning pit bulls.

In addition, a victim of a dog attack can sue the owner, and owners of dogs
that attack individuals may be prosecuted under the Dog Owners' Liability
Act.

The McGuinty government wants to know if further steps should be taken to
keep our communities safe. That's why I've asked my Ministry officials to
look into this issue, in particular whether a province-wide ban of pit bulls
should be put in place. As you know, I want to hear the views of Ontarians.
Please be assured that your views will be taken into consideration in our
review of this important matter.

Thank you for your input on this issue.


Michael Bryant
Attorney General of Ontario
Minister Responsible for Native Affairs
Minister Responsible for Democratic Renewal

Writing4Fun
September 11th, 2004, 10:43 AM
Yup, that's it alright! :rolleyes: Wonder if he hired the same letter writers as the folks at Iams? :p

Loki
September 25th, 2004, 05:36 PM
Sorry, I know this is an older post.
I seem to remember someone looking for pics of Petey from the Little Rascals....

moontamara
October 1st, 2004, 08:04 PM
BANTHEPITBULL, if you want to join a discussion, please READ all of the posts in the thread and respond to what is being written about in the thread. Writing one post about your feelings about pit bulls and then copying and pasting it to every thread at all related to pit bulls is obnoxious, and unhelpful. If you want to get into healthy debate here, go ahead, but no one will listen to you if you don't listen to them, and YOU'RE NOT LISTENING! No one here wants to promote pit bulls, even those who have a pit bull of their own that they love. These people aren't breeding pit bulls or even buying pit bulls from breeders -- they have all rescued pit bulls, and they deserve their opinions to be listened to. So at least READ THEIR POSTS and then respond to what is being written, if you have something to add. I'm not saying you have to agree.

Chewbie
February 4th, 2005, 02:06 PM
Hello everyone,
I hate the fact that pits have such a bad reputation. I know it's not the dog.. it's the owners. I do not have a pitbull, but my little chihuahua was raised around them, and the pits never even tried to hurt him. I came across this video and thought it was perfect to share with you. It really makes you think..

WARNING: This does have some graphic scenes, but I think it adds to the impact of the message. I know it brought tears to my eyes..

http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716 (http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716/)

chico2
February 4th, 2005, 02:13 PM
Chewbie,I thought the video would be something good about Pits,but reading at the start,it seems to be about dog-fighting,a little too graphic for me....unfortunately this horror is happening all over the country,but it's nothing I could possibly watch without being sick.

Chewbie
February 4th, 2005, 02:17 PM
Chico,
The video starts out showing some pics of fights and what they have to endure, but once you get past the beginning, it shows how gentle they really are and there's a lot of pics showing them with kids and family settings. I agree it is pretty graphic in parts, but that's actually the part that really makes you stop and realize that it's not the dog, but rather how they are treated by people who shouldn't even own a dog. The text in the video clip really explains it well.

PS. I have added a warning about the graphics to the original post.