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Introducing Myself and Thai

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 10:19 AM
Hello everyone. My name is Jennifer. I have recently adopted a Puppy at the age of almost 4 1/2 months. He is now just over 6 months old, has graduated primary obedience. And we are still going through puppy adjustments in our household. His name is ThaiGhing (Thai for short).

Ok so here goes... we went to a breeder I found in the paper here in our town. She was amazing with her dogs. She breeds Chow chow and shar pei. When i called her, I told her we were interested in a chow chow puppy. She said she had 1 from her most current litter left. She said he was 12 weeks old, black, smooth hair. So we took the trip to the breeders ( 2 hour drive). When we got there, we toured the grounds and got accquainted with the breeder.

We toured the kennel facilities. And saw her breeding pairs. While we were waiting for her to get the 12 week old black smooth chow chow out of the kennel, I spotted Thai!! He was the most amazing colour, and such a lovable face. I stopped and played and petted him. He was very sweet. And my mind was made up. I asked her if he was spoken for, or one of her breeders... she said he was left behind from a previous litter because he was smooth hair.

I know alot of people dont want smooth hair, as the full mane of the rough coat is so adorable and very breed specific. But how could some one pass him up??

She brought out his records from the vet which said he was purebred chow chow (no papers). My boyfriend and I spoke about it. Even looked at the black smooth hair, which was so much smaller. But our hearts had spoken. Thai was the one.

Now the dilemna. When we returned home, and took Thai to our vet, she says he is chow chow/ shar pei cross. I dont care what he is. But what do i tell people??

Do I stick to what the breeder says, and tell people he is a smooth hair chow chow, or do i tell them he is a chow pei?? Some people think he looks pure bred shar pei, others think he is definitely pure bred chow chow. I am confused!

I love him to death, and have never been happier. He is adorable. As soon as I get his photos scanned on this computer, i will Post his Pics.

HELP@

Lucky Rescue
August 30th, 2004, 10:29 AM
As long as you love him to death, it doesn't matter what he is!:) He probably is purebred. Most vets are not very knowledgeable about identifying breeds, and there are similarities between Chows and Shar peis. What makes the vet think he is mixed?

Go with what the breeder told you. This doesn't sound like a reputable or good breeder, but hopefully she is not cross breeding chows and shar peis at least.

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 10:33 AM
Welcome to you and your little angel!

If the dog you have is not a purebred, as the breeder indicated to you, he should not have been sold as such. This explains why you didn't get papers with the little tyke. Sounds like the breeder sold the ones that looked purebred as such (hopefully without papers). If they're not, then they're not doing what's best for the breed. If someone tries to breed the dog with another of the breed (or so they think) their litter would be tainted. Someone not keen on the breed might not notice and perpetuate the impurities within the breed. If he is a purebred, then you have every right to expect papers to arrive in the mail.

That ends my little rant against the possible mis-deeds of this breeder.
Either way, you got a little ball of love from the breeder and I would call him a Chow/Pei cross because that's what he is. If more people learn what one looks like, that'll stop the possibility of this happening again. Being the loving parent you are, you've surely "fixed" your little drool factory, thus preventing any future (unwanted) grand-puppies.

Can't wait to see the pictures of this little one! He sounds absolutely gorgeous!

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 10:38 AM
The woman I purchased Thai from was very reputable. She was recommended by many people. She was very kind to her dogs,they had regular ( every 2 weeks) vetrinary care, she made them a special vegetarian diet to lessen skin irritations ( common in both breeds).

From my experience, hers was one the the best kennels/breeders I had seen. I did alot of research before I purchased Thai. I had been to other "breeders" whom i would consider puppy mills. But this one was different. The dogs were clean, they were allowed full access of her home and her property, their crates were spotless ( and we showed up un announced), and they were in excellent health.

I do not appreciate such comments that I would be foolish enough to purchase my life long companion from a "non reputable" breeder.

iRONKNiGHT
August 30th, 2004, 10:41 AM
Welcome Jennifer and Thai :)
tho it was irresponsible of the breeder for not having Thai's papers
i also Believe with "LuckyRescue" said "Most vets are not very knowledgeable about identifying breeds"
this is Common! more so than you think!
you can always get a friend too call the breeder and ask if they got any shar pei for adoption.. if they say yes then you got your answer!

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 10:45 AM
Ok as i sit here, looking at the responses I have gotten from my first post on this website.. I wonder why I bothered??

Ok, first of all, I have done plently of research on both breeds (shar pei and chow chow). And i know the difference between the breeds. The problem is... Thai looks very similar to chow chow in most respects. But his ears have fallen.. hence they resemble a shar pei.

Last night, we encountered a woman in our area who rescues Chow chows.... And she as well, said most definitely pure Chow Chow. And she has been rescuing chows for over 20 years.

I am just not sure the vet knows what they are talking about. The vet was the first to admit she does not have alot of experience with either breed.

I did not post on this website to be put down, I posted here because I thought maybe someone out here might be able to appreciate what we are going through.

I do not care about papers. Are dogs with papers any better than dogs without papers?? Are they better pets??? Do you love them any more than non papered dogs??? PLEASE!!

I wanted a family pet. Someone to love and be loved. Someone to take care of and spend my time with. And Thai fits the perfectly.

AND YES, he will be nuetered, not because i am worried about more puppies... in fact, i have had many offers to breed him since i have owned him... but because i want a family pet, not a stud for a dog.

Thanks

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 10:49 AM
Hey....whoa!!! Back the boat up. Any comments I made, that you didn't like, weren't intentional digs at you or your little dog. I don't know this breeder, or you, and don't know if she's had crossed breedings before. She breeds two types of dogs, and it can certainly happen. Male dogs have an uncanny habit of becoming Houdini when a female in season is around.

Her kennels may be "eat of the floor" clean, and the dogs have full access to the house, but that doesn't mean the cross didn't happen. If he is a purebred dog...where are the CKC papers? If they didn't register the litter....why not? I'm only asking because there is no other explaination offered. Not to mention, it's an honest question. I'm not accusing her of milling her dogs, nor am I saying you'll do that. I'm mearly asking.

Take your little guy to another Chow breeder, or send them photos. Ask questions, if only to know with certainty what kind of dog you have.

It's entirely possible to have smooth coated Chows and have them be purebred. Maybe that's why no papers came....the smooth coat.

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 10:51 AM
I am in contact with the breeder on a weekly basis. She calls me or I call her once a week to update her on how Thai is doing, how obedience training is going, how he is reacting to his new home, etc

We talk all the time about the difficulties I have with people telling me he is mixed shar pei and chow. She is furious. She is adimant that he is purebred chow chow. She is upset that anyone would assume that she would cross breed the two. She even had her vet call me, to assure me that my dog, which has visible markings, was indeed purebred chow. And I believe them.

My concern is, how do I tell such adimant people who assume they know the breeds more so than I, that he is indeed purebred chow chow???

iRONKNiGHT
August 30th, 2004, 10:52 AM
it's nothing against you no one's saying you got your pet from a "non reputable breeder" but the fact that she dont have his papers says it all...it's just a FACT that breeders that seem to lose stuff and have a Take my word attitude..are signs of dishosest people..
Making easy target for trusting,innocent and well meaning folks could be easly taken adavantage off..

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 10:54 AM
If your little guy looks like me "may be" a cross, papers would put that to rest. You bought the dog as purebred, in good faith from the breeder, so she sould supply you with papers to indicate his breed status. It's that simple.

I also have a dog that was bought for pet purposes only. She has the gene for long hair and doesn't look like a purebred GSD. Her CKC papers indicate otherwise.

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 10:58 AM
Why do you assume that a dog without papers cannot be pure bred???

Why do papers mean so much to you folks??? Really????

I dont understand. I dont give a ratsass about papers! If I had a choice between a papered animal, and a non papered animal... i wouldnt have a choice... I would make my choice based on the animal itself. I have had both papered and non papered animals. And to tell you the truth, what good does the paper do???

Any of you out here that have papered animals... where are you papers??? Do you carry them around wth you so that when people meet you and your dog you can show them the papers??? NO!

I LOVE THAI. And provide a loving, safe, and happy home for him. ENOUGH already.

I dont know how to cancel my membershipy thing here, but i wish to do so, you people dont care about animals, you care about papers and the idea that dogs without papers are useless... you are so caught up on papers.. and the snobbish effect that papers carry... GOOD BYE

Lucky Rescue
August 30th, 2004, 10:58 AM
I don't know why you are offended? No one is accusing or blaming YOU for anything.

Keeping dogs clean and treating them kindly does not make a good breeder and many people have no idea what constitutes a good breeder.

A reputable breeder would not have two litters on the ground at the same time and would not have "leftover" puppies, as good breeders have long waiting lists for puppies way before the breeding even takes place.

Her breeding dogs would have championship titles, and the puppies would definitely have papers and pedigrees to prove the puppy is a purebred.

Of course papers don't matter, and don't make a dog a better pet. I'm just explaining WHY a reputable breeder should provide them - not saying that pets should have them.

And your question was answered - don't listen to the vet, and call your puppy a Chow.

Cactus Flower
August 30th, 2004, 11:02 AM
IronKnight has a good idea. If you are really curious, why not call the breeder and ask if she happened to have any chow peis?

I'm sorry that you feel you've been put down.

I agree that papers are not important. When I got my Dane, the (horrible) owners gave me her registration papers, and signed the back to transfer ownership. All I have to do is send in a bit of cash and the signed papers to get new ones back in my name. I haven't even bothered. I just keep the papers as a record of them having surrendered her to me.

I didn't know what a smooth-haired chow looked like, so I looked it up:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/chowchow.htm

I would be interested in seeing a picture of your dog as soon as possible. The folks on these boards are generally very good at detecting cross breeds and naming breeds in general.

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:06 AM
The picture that you posted, looks exactly like Thai, except that his ears are no pricked up, they are fallen. I know that chows can have their ears fall during teething , which we are still doing, so maybe in time his ears will come back up but i think they are adorable down.

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:08 AM
Here is a picture of thai as a baby..

Cactus Flower
August 30th, 2004, 11:08 AM
WOW- a lot of messages were written and posted as I was writing mine.

You have yet to answer why your breeder can't provide papers for this dog.

I think that you are lashing out irrationally. People here are trying to help you and you are accusing them of being "hung up" on papers and having a "snobby" attitude. All that they are saying is if she is purebred, the breeder should have had no trouble giving you or getting you her papers. That is not in the least out of line.

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 11:09 AM
OMG.... I want one!!!!!!!

Purebred or otherwise......ADOREABLE!!! Simply adoreable!!!

He's going to be a big boy.....look at those front feet!! :eek:

Cactus Flower
August 30th, 2004, 11:10 AM
Yes! They do look nearly identical!

VERY cute pup!

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:13 AM
Here is Thai now, at 6 months old...

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 11:15 AM
Little blurry. Got one a bit clearer?

(Looks like he's trying to eat your sofa!)

iRONKNiGHT
August 30th, 2004, 11:15 AM
Thai's SO ADORABLEEEEE what a Beautiful doggie!

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:16 AM
These were just taken with my cheap webcam... I have better ones i need to scan into the hard drive

Cactus Flower
August 30th, 2004, 11:17 AM
Hmmmmmmm.......those pics are a bit fuzzy.

Does anyone see a bit of Shar Pei in Thai's face?

I'd just call him a purebred Cutie, if anyone asks.

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:17 AM
Here are more photos... he is adorable...

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 11:19 AM
Not to start it up again....but he has Shar-Pei ears. 6 months old...does he chew alot? His ears should have stood by now, or at least started.

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:22 AM
I know they are fuzzy, I apologize. More to come

Cactus Flower
August 30th, 2004, 11:22 AM
GSD, do you see it in the face as well?

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:24 AM
He chews alot. Chews anything and everything. And he loves to chew on metal... I think becuase its cold. So i bought him a CHILLY BONE... its a soft toy, that you soak in water and freeze.. like a teething ring for babies... and he loves it so much so that i had to go buy another one.. cause he wants to carry one around in his mouth all the time.. i think the coolness helps...

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 11:25 AM
GSD, do you see it in the face as well?

I see it in his forehead too. Last posted picture....his forehead is pretty wrinkly.

Cactus Flower
August 30th, 2004, 11:26 AM
LuckyRescue, could you answer a question for me?

Don't the registration organizations sort of have to take someone's word for the dog's origin? I mean, if the breeder were to have accidentally crossed this pup's parents, couldn't they just still say that two chows were his parents and still get papers? How would the organization truly know who the parents were? I don't know how these things work.

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 11:27 AM
He chews alot. Chews anything and everything. And he loves to chew on metal... I think becuase its cold. So i bought him a CHILLY BONE... its a soft toy, that you soak in water and freeze.. like a teething ring for babies... and he loves it so much so that i had to go buy another one.. cause he wants to carry one around in his mouth all the time.. i think the coolness helps...

Give him ice cubes in the back yard. If you haven't done that yet....do it. It's absolutely hillarious to watch! They grab it, mull it over in the mouth a bit, then toss it and chase it. Minutes of fun! Keep lots in the freezer and watch the fun!

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:27 AM
I have managed to find about 8 teeth.. actually, he brings them to me... lol... he comes to my feet... looks dazed and confused... and than spits a tooth out at me... i call him the pez dispenser! LOL
I have them all.... and we put them under his doggie bed, and he gets a treat in the morning... LOL... DoggyFairy comes to our house!

Cactus Flower
August 30th, 2004, 11:28 AM
I agree, GSD. I see it in the general shape of his face (not head, but actual face/nose area).

That sounds like a really neat teething toy (the one you put in the freezer)! What a good idea!

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 11:29 AM
I have managed to find about 8 teeth.. actually, he brings them to me... lol... he comes to my feet... looks dazed and confused... and than spits a tooth out at me... i call him the pez dispenser! LOL
I have them all.... and we put them under his doggie bed, and he gets a treat in the morning... LOL... DoggyFairy comes to our house!

8....wow!!!! That's pretty darned good! "DoggyFairy" hehehehe :p

Cactus Flower
August 30th, 2004, 11:31 AM
"Doggy Fairy" LOL LOL LOL

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:34 AM
I am sorry.. maybe I didnt make myself clear... I love both breeds. If he is a mixed breed, doesnt matter... I will still love him forever.

All I know is this.. when I take Thai with me anywhere.... we have to allow a lot of time... because people are always coming up to us, talking to us, questioning us... they are totally drawn to him.... No one has ever seen a dog quite like him... and want to know where they can get one.... He is so unusual and unique.

I have had many people want to know where they can get one, what he is, where he came from, etc

And in fact, the vet said to call him "the new up and coming designer dog"!

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 11:38 AM
I am sorry.. maybe I didnt make myself clear... I love both breeds. If he is a mixed breed, doesnt matter... I will still love him forever.

And in fact, the vet said to call him "the new up and coming designer dog"!

The fact you love your dog is all that really matters here. Papered or otherwise, love is all it should boil down to.

Do NOT do what the vet said. Word of mouth is more influencial than you might think. Call it a designer dog and eventually there may be a call for them. Just call him your beloved boy and end the speculation by calling him a D O G. Chow cross for all that push the matter.

Lucky Rescue
August 30th, 2004, 11:42 AM
couldn't they just still say that two chows were his parents and still get papers?

My understanding is Yes, they could do that as long as all the adult dogs are registered with the AKC/CKC.

These organizations do nothing to ensure responsible breeding - puppymills and backyard breeders can easily get papers as long as their breeding dogs are purebred, both of the same breed and are registered. Doesn't matter how crappy the quality of the dogs.

This is why papers mean little, but a reputable breeder should still provide them. If their breeding dogs aren't even registered (never mind shown) they should certainly not be breeding them.

ThaiGhing
August 30th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Hello all, I have just gotten off the phone with Sharon, the breeder.

She has assured me that ThaiGhing is purebred. Both parents are registered with the CKC. And she is going to get the papers for me, to ease my mind.

I cannot wait to have the papers, so that i can definitely say he is smooth chow chow. The kennels are seperate for the Chows and Shar peis. And when the bitch goes into heat, she is kept in a locked kennel, until the stud is brought to her. Therefore, no cross breeding is taking place.

Yippee... I will still have a loveable pet...with papers to shove in a drawer.

Thanks to Sharon, the lovely lady who brought me the light of my life, Thai!

GsdDiamond
August 30th, 2004, 12:11 PM
Hello all, I have just gotten off the phone with Sharon, the breeder.

She has assured me that ThaiGhing is purebred. Both parents are registered with the CKC. And she is going to get the papers for me, to ease my mind.

I cannot wait to have the papers, so that i can definitely say he is smooth chow chow. The kennels are seperate for the Chows and Shar peis. And when the bitch goes into heat, she is kept in a locked kennel, until the stud is brought to her. Therefore, no cross breeding is taking place.

Yippee... I will still have a loveable pet...with papers to shove in a drawer.

Thanks to Sharon, the lovely lady who brought me the light of my life, Thai!

I'm glad the breeder can provide papers indicating your little guy's lineage. When you get the paper, check the spelling carefully. You see, the paper not only indicates purity of the dog, but also acts as a legal document identifying you as the registered owner. The paper serves two purposes.

Mine had to be sent back by the breeder to correct a spelling mistake in my name. When the new paper arrives, it's going to be framed, along side her certificate for basic manners, and the best photo I can find (once she's fully grown of course). Any new certificate will be framed and hung on Diamond's wall of fame. We're going to try and train Diamond for all but Schutzhund.

heeler's rock!
August 30th, 2004, 03:57 PM
This has been quite the interesting thread. I have no idea what chow's and shar pei's are supposed to look like, but Thai is adorable! Just to back up everyone on this forum, we are all pet lovers. Wheather they are purebred dogs, cats, or muts. It doesn't matter. In your original post ThaiGhing, you made it sound like you didn't know what to tell people in general what type of dog you have. The people here on this site have seen and heard of way too many bad breeders and wanted to make sure you protect yourself by having papers. They have every right to comment about his lack of papers, since your breeder swears he is purebred. Doesn't it seem odd to you? I don't want you to get offended again, as I have no ill will towards you. I have 2 muts and a border collie which is not recognized by the CKC so she can't be registered, there fore I am not "hung up" on papers. I'm just saying that if it were me and I paid a lot of money for a purebred dog, I would want proof for my own records. Also for health records and such. Not because they would make him better, but because they would answer questions about him and his parents. That's all anyone here was trying to say....sorry to have offended you.

heeler's rock!
August 30th, 2004, 03:59 PM
Good job ThaiGhing! I'm sooo glad you are getting the papers you deserve to have! see, now don't you feel better? I must have missed that part when I posted, but I'm really happy for you!!! :D Thai is very cute and congrats on your little bundle of joy!

chico2
August 30th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Jennifer,when we lived in Sweden,we had a wonderful dog,Julius Ceasar(Julle!),he was part GSD/Chow,Chows are very popular in Sweden,there are many of them around.The only thing Chow about him was his blue tounge ans stocky body.
Your Thai looks very kissable and sweet and he's a lucky puppy to be loved so much.
Here's a pic of my GSD/Chow mix Julle!

chico2
August 30th, 2004, 04:20 PM
Sorry.that turned out really big :eek: