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2 puppies littermates

2goldenpups
February 9th, 2010, 06:31 AM
:confused:Over the weekend I bought 2 golden retrieves from the same litter. The puppies play very agressively. Upon googling raising 2 puppies I was met with horror stories about adopting from the same litter. I have 2 8 wk old girls.

Does anyone have experience with litter mates?

Also in our home is 4 cats and 2 children one 8 one 15.

I am considering re-homing a pup

Melinda
February 9th, 2010, 06:47 AM
don't beleive everything you read on the internet, my best friend adopted two goldens from the same litter about 4 yrs ago and never had any problems, they kept each other company, slept together and are inseperable, have fun and enjoy your new babies

Golden Girls
February 9th, 2010, 06:51 AM
Never heard of such a thing :confused:

shirley1011
February 9th, 2010, 07:40 AM
Litter mates are certainly very active as are all puppies. The only thing I have found is that they are very independent when they have each other and training is definitely more challenging. Littermates can be a challenge but so much fun...they grow up fast!

shibamom
February 9th, 2010, 09:42 AM
Are you familiar with dog play, particularly young pups? I cannot imagine any aggression between 8 week old puppy litter mates. Yes, they nip and bite each other, but this is how they teach each other what is okay and what is too much. It is important for them to learn these skills.

Have you spoken with your breeder about these concerns?

ownedbycats
February 9th, 2010, 10:03 AM
On a nice day, go to a dog park (without your puppies) and watch the dogs. You will see many dogs playing rough. They stand on their hind legs and wrestle, make play snarls and bites, that cover each other in slobber, but do no real damage. This is the kind of play your puppies are doing at 8 weeks and it is very important. When they play with a littermate, or other dog and bite too hard, they learn by the other dogs' reaction how to control the strength fo their bite and what is acceptable and what is not.

My Lodi Girl
February 9th, 2010, 10:25 AM
My Lodi and Laci were from the same litter and never had any more problems than any other dogs raised together. They were extremely close and I think Laci has a bit of depression since Lodi died in November. They loved each other very much. I kind of think of the internet like the Enquirer - don't believe everything you read. :D

buddingartist
February 9th, 2010, 10:35 AM
We have personal experience with litter mates and were told those horror stories e.g. they will never really bond with you, they will ignore you, etc, etc,

We never set out to get 2 puppies however, when we got to the breeder (?%$$??- read puppy mill), she had 2 left and both in real bad shape. They were 10 weeks old and sometimes really played roughly, and we felt that we had to protect the female. Well guess who the bully is now... yep Cleo. They each have their personality Buddy being just endearing and a cool little dude and Cleo being the little buffon. We even had to remove their collar and tags (Buddy nearly choked on it once) cause he would grab Cleo by the collar and shake her.

What Ownedbycats said in her post is exactly what happens with our 2. Buddy is extremely protective of his sister and they have bonded with us but whenever we are not sitting with them, Cleo just cuddles up to her brother. I have never heard either yelp in pain and sometimes their play can get a little rough. That is what Cleo is missing since Buddy has been diagnosed with diabetes and not as playful as he used to be.

Training was sometimes a bit of a challenge especially when Cleo had hip surgery and had to be crated a lot for a period of one year to prevent Buddy from playing and running after her. Then Buddy was sick for a while and although not crated regularly, he needed more attention but Cleo would go over and lick his ear regularly.

It is a joy to watch them play together, keep each other company and watch over each other. They are fun and just plain adorable.... of course, we are not biaised:D

They are now 9 1/2 years old and we never regretted taking 2 dogs.

Good luck

dustybird
February 9th, 2010, 10:50 AM
We sort of have two sisters, by that I mean they are sisters but only live together for 6mts of the year. My bosses have one and we have the other, I work at a seasonal resort, hence the six months they are togther.

Anyway they do play rough with each other but as they get older they get a little less rough. Still may seem rough and sometimes scary to us but it's the way dogs play. If one gets a little to rough the other would yelp and the play would freeze for a moment. Until they decided everything was ok and then back to playing. They at times looked like they wanted to rip each other apart when they played, like yanking on each others ears, grabbing any loose skin and shaking etc... but they really were just playing. Again if the other had enough or yelped they would stop on their own. They never once hurt one another, no scratch, or injuries of any kind. If they played to rough in the house we'd break it up, as that kind of play inside was not allowed...something was bound to get broken.

I use to work at a vet clinic so I was always doing a nightly check on them just to be sure.

They definately kept each other entertained and were there for each other if one got into trouble. I also think they kept each other out of trouble. When they first arrived on the island they could fit under the cabins but as they grew they didn't fit so well. Well one day one got stuck and could make it out and panicked, well her sister came and got one of us to let us know. They also sort of taught each other to swim. One wasn't to sure about going in the water farther than a foot from shore and the other was a swimming fool. Well the swimming fool would wade out and swim around and bark, be goofy and eventualy encouraged her sister to give it a try and well now she loves to swim to.

Training is harder so we had to separate them now and then to work with them individualy and then slowly did small training sessions with them at the same time. When they understood the comands on their own we then brought them together.

Having the two of them together was great fun, just watching them and seeing what they learned from one another and of course sitting and watching them nap together was too cute.

It sure will be quite the reunion this spring when we all get together again. Whenever my pup(Autumn) sees another dog on a walk that looks like her sister she gets very excited and cannot take her eyes off the other dog, so I know she remembers.

Anyway just my experience with two sister pups from the same litter. Don't give up just yet they are still very young and there is soo much for them to learn and they do learn from one another.

On a side note we also have two cats, and my bosses have two cats. Mine stay in our cabin and the bosses have free roam of the island. It didn't take long for the pups to understand that the cats were not play things. We had to teach them they were not to chase them and to give them their space and the cats certainly helped reinforce that. From time to time they still wanted to play with the cats, mostly by yipping at them and taking a play bow stance, but they learned what "leave it" means. My dog is left home alone with our cats all the time and she's fine. Also with kids they both seemed to know on thier own that they had to be more gentle with them, we still needed to teach them but they did not play or try to play as rough with them as they did with one another.

mummummum
February 9th, 2010, 12:06 PM
My grrrrls, Bridie and Ceili are littermate sisters whom I have had since they were about 4 1/2 weeks old . They are now 10.

It may seem as if they want to kill each other during play but you will soon be able to tell the difference between "I'm-a-big-bad-doggy-and-I'm-gonna-get-you" play snarly and the "Back-off Sis, you are getting on my nerves" warning snarly and the "Okay, you pushed me one too many times" anger snarly.

Training was definitely more challenging and more time consuming. One of the grrrrls (interestingly the smaller of the two) is definitely her sisters protector ~ there are pros and cons to that of course. Bridie (the protector) will also chastise Ceili if Ceili is having a selective hearing moment.

Great advice given so far.

Sib.HuskyMom
February 9th, 2010, 03:57 PM
I completely understand where you're coming from. My siberian huskies are littermates and they're now a year and a half old.
The day after I brought them home, I read all those same stories on the internet (probably the same sites you're reading) and I was horrified They basically said how raising 2 pups at the same time was the worst thing I could ever do and I should get rid of one ASAP.

Well, they were dead wrong. My boys are best friends, completely inseparable. Even now, at 18 months old, they still like to cuddle up to each other when they sleep - I hope they never grow out of that.
They're also very bonded to my husband and I, and we couldn't imagine our lives without them.

The thing to remember is, even though they have each other, it's still just as important to socialize them with other dogs. I also find that my boys play much more rough with each other, than they ever do with their other doggy friends - I think it's a sibling thing.

As for training, I found it was easiest to do it separately. My husband would take one outside and I'd work with one inside. Otherwise, I found it was too confusing for them when teaching commands like sit and down because evidentally, one would do, one wouldn't, but they still thought the praise was for them. It's also harder to teach them their names if they're always together.

That being said, it's always been a nice little break for me to let them go off and entertain each other for a while. ;)

Just remember, at this age, they'r still learning from each other what's acceptable play and what's not. If one of them gets too rough, the other will give a little yelp to let her know. But if at any point they're getting too rough for your comfort, you can just grab them each by the scruff (gently, as their mother would have done) and separate them. Make them sit and wait until they calm down. They'll learn quicker than you think. ;)

Good luck with your new little bundles!

Beauceron
February 9th, 2010, 06:29 PM
:confused:Over the weekend I bought 2 golden retrieves from the same litter. The puppies play very agressively. Upon googling raising 2 puppies I was met with horror stories about adopting from the same litter. I have 2 8 wk old girls.

Does anyone have experience with litter mates?

Also in our home is 4 cats and 2 children one 8 one 15.

I am considering re-homing a pup
Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.

My Lodi Girl
February 9th, 2010, 06:43 PM
Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.

I TOTALLY disagree. I never had any problems with Lodi and Laci as littermates. They were each other's best friends til the very end and bonded with me and my (ex)husband also.

bendyfoot
February 9th, 2010, 06:45 PM
Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.

I think, in order to be helpful to the OP, it would be nice to back up these very strong statements with some evidence, as the others have (even if it's anecdotal). Do you have studies to prove this? Or anecdotal evidence of your own?

TeriM
February 9th, 2010, 06:55 PM
I think two littermates is a big job but can be done if you have the dedication and lifestyle. If you are away for long days then perhaps you won't have the necessary time to dedicate. It would also probably help if you are an experienced dog owner. Here is an excellent blog of someone who raised two labrador littermates. Not many recent posts but some excellent information if you dig farther back http://the-sunshinegirl.blogspot.com/.

If you do keep both pups then be sure to crate train them in seperate crates and to do lots of one-on-one work with each dog so that they don't become super focused only on each other. Retrievers are naturally social dogs which is probably helpful in your case as they will be interested in interacting with family.

Good luck :goodvibes:.

mona_b
February 9th, 2010, 07:44 PM
Just a question and I'm not trying to be rude, but did you not do any research on raising 2 pups/littermates before you bought them?

My niece is raising two littermates(brother/sister husky mix). They are 17 months now. She has not had any issues with them what so ever. They are great with everyone and not overly clingy.

My sister adopted 2 littermates(Husky) again no issues. And they are 12 years old now and loving the farm life.

I raised 2 -3month old GSDs. They were not from the same litter. I put in a lot of time and effort in training. And since I was doing the initial basic training for one(police work) there was no time for error in training. My training was with them together and also one on one. And at times with the one on one, I would still have the other with me. I actually found this easy. And I always used their name with every command. It's all about time and patience. And if you don't have that, then that is when problems happen. To me it was all worth it in the end...:)

mummummum
February 9th, 2010, 07:54 PM
Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.

Sarcasm is ok I guess but it's usually helpful if people know it's sarcasm. And given that you're fairly new here you might want to wait until folks get to know you before you lay it on so thickly, add smilie faces and use it in a more appropriate context. :2cents:

Marcha
February 9th, 2010, 09:12 PM
A friend of mine has two littermates (lab/rottie mixes), who are now a year old. They had some issues at the beginning, which subsided when they stopped kenneling them together for longer periods in an outdoors kennelled area, and instead crated them separately in the same area. The separate kenneling and alternating individual training and 'team' training created a wonderful set of dogs.

Beauceron
February 9th, 2010, 11:29 PM
No sarcasm. Raising doubles is a terrible idea. Simply because a few people have been lucky is no reason to do it.

cassiek
February 10th, 2010, 01:28 AM
And where is your evidence to support your statements, Beauceron? I think I speak for most of us on here when I say that we are trying to provide real and accurate help and advice to others on here, and in order to do that you need to have some evidence to back up your statements. Simply stating something as strongly as you have with nothing to back you up, completely ruins your credibility and will likely make most people doubtful of what you do have to say.

Let's give the OP some honest and helpful advice here. Why do you think getting two littermates is a bad idea? Have you had a bad personal experience if so what went wrong and why? What did you do to help the situation?

Besides that we are overlooking that the OP has already bought the two pups. Giving one up is certainly not the best idea after the fact, let's be productive and constructive here.

Sib.HuskyMom
February 10th, 2010, 06:19 AM
I agree with crating them separately from each other. During the first week that my littermates were home, we had them in the same crate, as kind of a transition period. Then we moved them into separate crates, but still side by side in the same room.
As much as they will naturally have a great bond to each other, it's also important that they're ok to be separated for periods of time.
For example, what if one of them has to stay over night at the vets, and one doesn't?
It just generally helps them to become more rounded individuals IMO :)

Melinda
February 10th, 2010, 06:53 AM
No sarcasm. Raising doubles is a terrible idea. Simply because a few people have been lucky is no reason to do it.


:crazy: hope you never have twins *LOL*:eek:

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 06:54 AM
As others here have already stated, i know of 3 members on here that have siblings and i can think of 4 of my neighbours withing a couple houses that have a sibling pair also..If the breeder I got Qman from didn't already have all of hers spoken for i would have loved to take his little sister too. Any dogs i know that are siblings were taught the exact same way you would teach two non-sibling puppies...I wouldn't crate two non-siblings together anymore than i would two siblings.

Beauceron,,just because YOU state something as fact doesn't mean it is so. Several members have experience with siblings and some have stated so in here. Where as you voice your opinion, and that is all it is unless backed up with solid evidence. Unless you have raised siblings, know of several dozen people who have and had problems,,where exactly do you get your information from that makes all of us with experience wrong. Apparantly we're something special that we managed to pull off something that the majority can't....yay for us good going guys.:thumbs up

Gail P
February 10th, 2010, 12:52 PM
Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.

How can you make such a statement without knowing anything more than you do about the OP and their situation? You don't know anything about them, their experience, the amount of time and training they are willing to invest (or not) in their pups. Raising two puppies is definitely not something that everyone is able to do well, however it is not that unusual and the stories already posted here are not what I'd call "exceptions". Even if the OP has not raised 2 puppies before, or even one, if they are willing to take the right steps and educate themselves about how to successfully do so there would be no need to rehome a pup. Yes it will take time and effort, but even one pup requires and deserves that.

Myself, I've raised littermates several times over and quite successfully (no exceptions, there was never a time it didn't work out for me). Years ago I had two rough collie sisters, later we had a brother and sister great dane, then two shelter puppies that may or may not have been brothers but were the same age and raised as brothers. Next up two border collie pups (gasp! the horror! two high-energy puppies at once! I must have been insane :rolleyes: Not! They were great puppies and are great dogs) Besides the siblings I've also thrown single pups into the mix as well, and we currently have 9 dogs all residing happily together, siblings and otherwise. The rough collies passed away years ago, though I got another one collie since (Noah), as did the danes, but we still have the mixbreeds (Thunder and Flash), the sibling border collies (Rain and Storm) and all the other single pups (Lightning, Flurry, Dru and Blaze). When they run, play and wrestle there are times you'd swear they were going to tear each other to pieces they can play so rough, but it's all just the way they interact within the pack and nobody gets hurt. All the teeth and growling can look scary but they know where to draw the line. Even though they will show their teeth and use them in play, as puppies they learned about "bite inhibition" and not to bite hard.

mummummum
February 10th, 2010, 02:32 PM
No sarcasm. Raising doubles is a terrible idea. Simply because a few people have been lucky is no reason to do it.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt rather than thinking you are a... troublemaker.

As you are unable to provide any meaningful information and quite obviously know nothing about dogs and likely animals in general, perhaps you could find a more useful way to spend your bandwidth and leave those of us who DO know something about animals to have an intelligent discussion.

:thankyou:

Beauceron
February 10th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Besides that we are overlooking that the OP has already bought the two pups. Giving one up is certainly not the best idea after the fact, let's be productive and constructive here.Seems you've already decided. Can you tell me why giving one up is not the best idea. On raising littermates you will find general agreements whether its from an old time jerk and yank trainer of a progressive reward based trainer that raising littermates is a bad idea. There is a reason why in the OP, the author mentions all the horror stories on the net. It's because they are true.

Bailey_
February 10th, 2010, 03:27 PM
Raising littermates, is absolutley no different than raising two puppies from completley different litters.

IMO, you can find ANY horror story backing ANY concern over the internet.

It has nothing to do with the fact that they are from the SAME LITTER.

Problems arise because often families don't realize the intense responsibility and energy that goes into raising ONE puppy, let alone two.

It's double the work, period. Combine that with a pup's energy and high distraction levels, and you have your work cut out for you.

This doesn't mean in any way that two puppies from the same litter (or different) should not be raised together, or it should be avoided. It can be a great experience, as long as the entire family is ready to take on such a roll.

mummummum
February 10th, 2010, 03:30 PM
Seems you've already decided. Can you tell me why giving one up is not the best idea. On raising littermates you will find general agreements whether its from an old time jerk and yank trainer of a progressive reward based trainer that raising littermates is a bad idea. There is a reason why in the OP, the author mentions all the horror stories on the net. It's because they are true.

Since you are the only person taking a firm stance against this and the rest of us, who have experience with multiple dog households, including littermates, are of a different opinion I think it is up to you to back up your opinion with verifiable facts Beauceron, not the other way around.

So, the ball is in your court. Prove me wrong.

mummummum
February 10th, 2010, 03:37 PM
A personal attack. The first recourse of the intellectually deficient.

I called you a troublemaker Beauceron.

The definition of a troublemaker is one who deliberately stirs up trouble.

The tone of your posts and the content, or rather the LACK of content in your posts meets the definition quite nicely.

Unless of course you would prefer "troll".

Now as I said in my previous post, put up or ...you can fill in the blanks, I'm feeling intellectually deficient at the moment.

Bailey_
February 10th, 2010, 03:39 PM
Since you are the only person taking a firm stance against this and the rest of us, who have experience with multiple dog households, including littermates, are of a different opinion I think it is up to you to back up your opinion with verifiable facts Beauceron, not the other way around.

So, the ball is in your court. Prove me wrong.

Beauceron has a point.

We need to remember that many families adopt "littermates" because they are under the impression that the dog will grow up with a great friend and many families do not understand the full responsibility of such a task. This can be extremley detrimental to the dogs future. ESPECIALLY if the entire family is a) not an experienced dog home, or b) not on board to train both dogs individually as required in this situation.

There are MANY reasons why adopting two puppies should be taken into careful consideration. If it's not, it can lead to serious problems and concerns like what the OP is dealing with.

And I may get burned for saying this, but I stand by my comment when I say that I would much rather an adaptable puppy be rehomed - than an older dog with serious behavioral/training issues who may get bumped around from home to home to home in the future, all because of lack of education.

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 03:41 PM
Bailey that has nothing to do really with whether or not they are littermates, that has to do with an inexperienced home. Two pups from totally different litters is going to be just as hard to train as littermates for someone who has no experience training one let alone two puppies at once.

Bailey_
February 10th, 2010, 03:43 PM
Bailey that has nothing to do really with whether or not they are littermates, that has to do with an inexperienced home. Two pups from totally different litters is going to be just as hard to train as littermates for someone who has no experience training one let alone two puppies at once.

Not really sure why you addressed this comment to me, Aslan. If you'll go to the first page, you'll see my first comment in this thread regarding the fact that ....it has nothing to do with the fact that they are littermates. ;)

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 03:45 PM
i was replying to your last post. The thread was about two littermates and i was just stating your last response goes for two puppies ingeneral not just littermates. Not an attack on you.

mummummum
February 10th, 2010, 03:54 PM
Beauceron has a point.

We need to remember that many families adopt "littermates" because they are under the impression that the dog will grow up with a great friend and many families do not understand the full responsibility of such a task. This can be extremley detrimental to the dogs future. ESPECIALLY if the entire family is a) not an experienced dog home, or b) not on board to train both dogs individually as required in this situation.

There are MANY reasons why adopting two puppies should be taken into careful consideration. If it's not, it can lead to serious problems and concerns like what the OP is dealing with.

And I may get burned for saying this, but I stand by my comment when I say that I would much rather an adaptable puppy be rehomed - than an older dog with serious behavioral/training issues who may get bumped around from home to home to home in the future, all because of lack of education.

No, Beauceron does NOT have a point because Beaceron hasn't made one yet. A blanket generalization that all trainers advise not to aqdopt / try to train littermates and that at no time has there ever been a home in which littermates have been raised successfully is not a point, it's hearsay. Obviously, judging by the content of this thread there are a few of us around who have experience in this and are here to say, yes, it can be done. That is not hearsay, it's fact. THAT is what I am objecting to. One cannot make sweeping. all-inclusives generalization about living creatures, not human, not animal.

You on the other hand are saying something quite different and you are not, I don't think you are anyway, making broadstroke statements, nor are you using a tone more suitable to a "How to alienate friends and make enemies" reality show.

Winston
February 10th, 2010, 03:57 PM
Bailey in your post where you mention the OP has a point when you say this:

There are MANY reasons why adopting two puppies should be taken into careful consideration.

I think the term careful consideration was not mentioned by the OP is was that is was a HORRIBLE IDEA...there was no mention of any kind of consideration??? All the other posters mention things to consider? or things to look at with careful consideration...they did not just come out and say that it was an absolutely horrible idea?

To the person that opened the thread I am so sorry that this thread has gone awall! I hope you will see through all the emotions of us and arguments and make a decision that is going to work for you!

Beauceron your not making your first impression a very good one...or are you trolling?

Bailey_
February 10th, 2010, 03:58 PM
nor are you using a tone more suitable to a "How to alienate friends and make enemies" reality show.

:laughing::D

I hear you.

I do think the point here is that two puppies CAN be worked with. *BUT* in the off chance that it really is a bad situation for the family, it would be better to rehome the puppy while still young and a "blank slate" if you will...compared to waiting a year when the dogs are even bigger and deciding at that time to do so.

NOT that I am suggesting there is no hope for the OP. There absolutley is, but it will take work from all parties responsible for these dogs.

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 03:59 PM
K before our little friend succeeds in doing exactly what he/she comes here to do ( cause us to fight amongst ourselves)..Shalll we take a deep breath and plot .:evil: oh and Mx3 this is Bailey,,she is a trainer.rotfl...

BenMax
February 10th, 2010, 04:00 PM
so in your opinion if you read it on the net it MUST be true,,omg i read once that you Can get pregnant from a toilet seat.:eek:

:laughing::laughing::laughing: Are you telling me you can't???:laughing::offtopic: I bee'z quiet now.

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 04:01 PM
:laughing::laughing::laughing: Are you telling me you can't???:laughing::offtopic: I bee'z quiet now.


:laugh::laugh: omg you made me totally laugh outloud..i have an urge to say " MOOOOO"...

Winston
February 10th, 2010, 04:02 PM
why do they have to rehome the puppies now? have they even given it a fair chance? have they worked through the issues?? come on we can make those kind of statements...none of us have any iedea how 2 pups are going to get along? now when their young, or older?

Bailey I know from a resuce perspective yes rehome is what we would hope for? but OMG if everyone rehomed without giving it a try we would have a hell of alot more dogs in shelters or far worse?

anyway I am outta this one...its getting way off base! :thumbs up

BenMax
February 10th, 2010, 04:07 PM
Ok I will address.

Luckily I do have something to actually say. In our rescue we have adopted out litter mates or those from different litters at the same time. This is not an isolated incident. I can also tell you that with all the follow up done on these pups (whom are now grown), not once was there any of those horror stories told.

Yes - one couple were having difficulty training two at once. We got them a trainer to show them how to manage and all went well thereafter.

Anyone that is telling you otherwise is not being upfront. It can be done, it is manageable, but if you are having difficulty I would suggest contacting a good reputable trainer to assist you. Explore your options before discarding one of the babes.

Bailey_
February 10th, 2010, 04:09 PM
why do they have to rehome the puppies now? have they even given it a fair chance? have they worked through the issues?? come on we can make those kind of statements...none of us have any iedea how 2 pups are going to get along? now when their young, or older?

Bailey I know from a resuce perspective yes rehome is what we would hope for? but OMG if everyone rehomed without giving it a try we would have a hell of alot more dogs in shelters or far worse?

anyway I am outta this one...its getting way off base!

I'm not saying they SHOULD Winston.

It would be best to hear from the OP again to really judge the situation.

All I'm saying is that often times families DO wait before rehoming. Two puppies is a big deal. It's a lot of work, and we don't have any idea at this point how things are progressing for the family - if they're able to get a trainer - or even how much TIME they have to put into training one dog, let alone both.

I'd be curious to hear how things are going, and hopeful that they are able to get the needed education and help to further train their dogs.

In my line of work, I see a lot of people give up on their dogs once they are through the puppy stage - after certain bad behavior traits have already developed, and once the dog is not "puppy-cute" anymore. It makes it much more difficult for the dog to find a new home.

**And I just want to add that I am not one of those people that believes the puppies first home is the BEST home. I do believe that rehoming is on occasion, quite neccessary. I don't cringe when I hear about it, I don't berate someone considering it, and I will help anyone that comes to me find a new home for their dog - provided they have GOOD reasons, and it is an obvious best case scenario for the animal in question.**

mummummum
February 10th, 2010, 04:10 PM
K before our little friend succeeds in doing exactly what he/she comes here to do ( cause us to fight amongst ourselves)..Shalll we take a deep breath and plot .:evil: oh and Mx3 this is Bailey,,she is a trainer.rotfl...
:offtopic: Hi bailey! Nicetameetcha! :highfive:

Shaykeija
February 10th, 2010, 04:11 PM
Found a new one...

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo311/lisa465111/MIscellanous/Trolls.gif

mummummum
February 10th, 2010, 04:13 PM
I'm not saying they SHOULD Winston.

It would be best to hear from the OP again to really judge the situation.

All I'm saying is that often times families DO wait before rehoming. Two puppies is a big deal. It's a lot of work, and we don't have any idea at this point how things are progressing for the family - if they're able to get a trainer - or even how much TIME they have to put into training one dog, let alone both.

I'd be curious to hear how things are going, and hopeful that they are able to get the needed education and help to further train their dogs.

In my line of work, I see a lot of people give up on their dogs once they are through the puppy stage - after certain bad behavior traits have already developed, and once the dog is not "puppy-cute" anymore. It makes it much more difficult for the dog to find a new home.

And for what it's worth, I agree with you/. It's a shame that Beauceron has hijacked this thread because it could have been a very good discussion.

Bailey_
February 10th, 2010, 04:14 PM
And for what it's worth, I agree with you/. It's a shame that Beauceron has hijacked this thread because it could have been a very good discussion.

Nice to meet you as well! :thumbs up And meh - Beauceron didn't ruin it for me, I still find it interesting. :D

BenMax
February 10th, 2010, 04:15 PM
I'm not saying they SHOULD Winston.

It would be best to hear from the OP again to really judge the situation.

All I'm saying is that often times families DO wait before rehoming. Two puppies is a big deal. It's a lot of work, and we don't have any idea at this point how things are progressing for the family - if they're able to get a trainer - or even how much TIME they have to put into training one dog, let alone both.

I'd be curious to hear how things are going, and hopeful that they are able to get the needed education and help to further train their dogs.

In my line of work, I see a lot of people give up on their dogs once they are through the puppy stage - after certain bad behavior traits have already developed, and once the dog is not "puppy-cute" anymore. It makes it much more difficult for the dog to find a new home.

Bailey I understand your point and yes I see from a rescue point of view all those poor souls being discarded with a pack of problems.

But...I would suggest that before putting one of these pups back into the system, a sincere effort should be made.

It is so easy to discard, so much harder to actually work at something. In the end, these dogs with the right guidance, proper supervision, and education - this OP and both her dogs can live happily ever after.

Call me foolish.....if you make a committment, you keep it.

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 04:18 PM
Shaykeija thanks for the commercial break,,and an accurate one at that..now back to our regularily scheduled thread..

I can't imagine having no experience with raising a puppy even considering getting two, especially goldens. our moose didn't grow up until he hit two then he became a giant couch potatoe. hmmmm ever have your hands moving faster than your brain, edit, edit edit.

Beauceron
February 10th, 2010, 05:19 PM
The OP asked for opinions, it's retarded to call anyone who doesn't share your view a troll.

Even though I'm not a fan of Millan or Pattison both have expressed that raising two dogs is a bad idea, Stanly Coren in his show also said this. Frawley also considers it a bad idea. Others in DogStarDaily, i have also shared similar views. Considering how many people have trouble with a single dog


Why won't my dog pee outside?
Barking When Noone is Home?
please help me redirect my dog
Hooch wants to eat other dogs
dog has developed chewing habits - only when we're home
Potty Training ---???
dog growls and snaps when someone sits down next to her
7month puppy caused serious attack
Peewee the Terrorist - One step at a time
Fearful Aggression?
Why is she afraid to come? HELP


I feel pretty confident that my opinion on this issue is right.

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 05:34 PM
Beauceron before this sillyness continutes, what are your credentials, experience or whatever with training, or handling dogs other than owning one..You have had trainers, groomers, rescuers, foster parents, etc respond in this thread many of whom have raised littermates. Just wondering what experience you have that makes you right and them wrong.

Beauceron
February 10th, 2010, 05:37 PM
http://forum.dog.com/forums/p/90968/721959.aspx

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 05:43 PM
that is a forum just like this one, not a veterinary college, or any other professional establishment with any credentials.

Beauceron
February 10th, 2010, 05:45 PM
that is a forum just like this one, not a veterinary college, or any other professional establishment with any credentials.You have no credentials.. And it points to people who disagree with you. Perhaps for some reason the demographics here are not representative of the greater reality. It does show that many people have had bad experiences or think doing the littermate thing is a bad idea.

aslan
February 10th, 2010, 05:53 PM
and here is the opposite side..

www.pawsforaminute.com/uncategorized/double-trouble-3-must-have-tips-for-raising-litter-mates

www.wholedogtraining.com/One%20or%20two%20puppies.pdf

www.hubpages.com/hub/Pros-and-Cons-of-Raising-Two-Litter-Mate-Dogs

Beauceron
February 10th, 2010, 05:57 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/lifestyles/family/dogtalk/s_483918.html

Dear Potential Double Trouble: The only advantage that I can think of with raising littermates is that they spend their time wrestling and chewing on each other. Otherwise, a puppy would be expecting you or your family members to entertain him or her. Outside of this advantage, there are some considerable disadvantages to consider.

One disadvantage is that littermates raised together tend to bond with each other more than with any human in the family. I've often observed that one puppy grows up kind of aloof, living in the shadow of his or her more dominant littermate.

When separated from each other, littermates that are raised together often display extreme signs of separation anxiety. It sometimes is particularly traumatic when the dogs grow into old age and one inevitably passes away before the other. The one left behind often is extremely stressed.

If you do decide to raise littermates, you can alleviate some of these issues by making a point to give each puppy lots of individual life experience. As often as possible, have one of your family members take one puppy off on an excursion while you take the other pup somewhere else. Individual socialization is imperative. This is time-consuming and does require that you have someone else available who is interested in the pups.

If you do a group dog-obedience class, enroll each puppy into individual groups. As much individual experience as possible is recommended.

Another drawback is the fact that raising a puppy is a lot of work. Two puppies are double trouble. As challenging as it is to house-train a puppy, two are twice as hard. Instead of having to watch one puppy closely, you will need to watch two.

Crate training is the same process as it would be with one puppy. However, I recommend that you get an individual crate for each pup.

Of course, it goes without saying that veterinarian bills, boarding costs and food expenses are double. These are some of the downsides to raising littermates. That said, I never underestimate the ability of an individual determined to succeed.

My recommendation is to get one puppy. Train him or her, and then, when your dog is about 1 year old, add another puppy to the pack. Along with many other puppy-raising issues, we talk about the ramifications of raising littermates together in my book "Puppy Preschool."

Beauceron
February 10th, 2010, 06:02 PM
the thread isn't about whether or not the Op is experienced she was asking about raising littermates incase you forgot what you responded too. You made a comment about THAT topic not about raising two puppies. Not one person has said raising two would be easy, what we're disagreeing with is littermates. Two siblings or two strangers, no big difference, alot of work.It's foolish to ignore the skill level of the poster when asking responding to the question. And the fact that raising littermates is fraught with problems more so than a single dog cannot be denied. To pretend otherwise because a few people have been successful is setting up the poster to fail.

Beauceron
February 10th, 2010, 06:04 PM
I notice you never answered what experience you have. hmmm or for that fact what pet you own or if you even own one.Give me your name and telephone number. I'm happy to provide my CV.

kinda wondering who the WE is you mentioned in your comment too. Are you speaking for the members here or somewhere else.Me, you and everyone else that responds with NO, don't breed the dog, when this question comes up.

Marcha
February 10th, 2010, 06:06 PM
The majority of issues of 'littermate syndrome' (as that topic in Beauceron's link is called) are related to 1) not having individual training 2) not having time separated from each other 3) not having an identity separate from the other 4) the handler's ignorance about socialization and training. One of the people in that particular topic more aptly calls it 'in over their head syndrome'.

The original poster has gotten some valuable insights in this topic.

1) train separately
2) crate separately (though in same room)
3) understand the extra time and energy involvement from the entire family in raising littermates.

If the OP understands that it takes time and energy from the entire family, and the family is all on board with it, then they have the tools (individual training and individual crating) to make it a very successful opportunity.

It is then up to the original poster to determine whether this is something that is feasable and achievable, and make an informed decision.

As for the individual training... I have two children. They are littermates in a sense. They learn a lot from each other, and it's not always good stuff. They get learning tools according to their own personalities, temperaments and interests. They get time together, and time apart. They get different teachers, different physical activities, different mental activities, different quiet time activities. My kids are 2 years apart. My friend's twins are also treated in this way: they each have their own needs, temperaments, personalities, etc. They need to learn to be apart as well as together, they absorb things at their own pace and according to their own schedule and ability.

Two dogs, whether there is an age difference or not, still need to be seen as two separate individual dogs that require different approaches and individual bonding with their handlers.

luckypenny
February 10th, 2010, 06:07 PM
:confused:Over the weekend I bought 2 golden retrieves from the same litter. The puppies play very agressively. Upon googling raising 2 puppies I was met with horror stories about adopting from the same litter. I have 2 8 wk old girls.

Does anyone have experience with litter mates?

Also in our home is 4 cats and 2 children one 8 one 15.

I am considering re-homing a pup

2goldenpups, raising two pups from the same litter would be no different from raising two pups from different litters. As others have said, it takes extra work to train, play, and socialize them separately. Is there another adult in the home to give you a hand?

We have a multi-dog household and would come across (and have come across) the same problems whether or not they were from the same litter. It just takes more effort and time on our part.

For sure the two girls can play together and the wrestling you're seeing is perfectly normal. Did you get a chance to see the other littermates play? I bet you would have witnessed the same.

One word of advice though, please have them both spayed before they reach sexual maturity.

Good luck and let us know how you, and they, are doing :goodvibes:.

shirley1011
February 10th, 2010, 06:13 PM
Great advise LP...My thoughts exactly..more than one is more work and effort but well worth it.

I believe it is time for Beauceron to give everyone here a break..we have a great group who were asked their opinions and now it is up to the OP to make a decision that is best for her family and the pups.

Beauceron, do you enjoy the challenge or just not know when enough is enough?

shirley1011
February 10th, 2010, 06:37 PM
and Beauceron your behaviour sucks....this is a wonderful forum..folks here were asked their opinions...you gave yours..so give it up!

shirley1011
February 10th, 2010, 06:43 PM
hmmm Beau...take a look at the number of posts Aslan has 10,000 and you 38..30 of which are from this insane rant....Give it up!
I think you might get the title Mr Noob if you aren't careful...
This forum is for sharing not dictating your opinion.....your opinion noted...not considered but noted....now goodnight Mr. Noob...I mean Beauceroni

Beauceron
February 10th, 2010, 06:44 PM
i will clarify for you, I DO believe you can raise two littermates together, do i think it's something an inexperienced dog owner should try, nope...

didn't say i didn't like the thread and i'm quite willing to work with the OP in any way i can,, so hmmm wonder what it is i don't like.
This is the first rational thing you've posted.

Note that I never claimed it was not possible to do. Merely that this was a bad idea in general, and specially bad for a person with no experience.

Pike
February 10th, 2010, 06:55 PM
This thread has far run it's course, and has devolved significantly from the OP's question. It is now, and will remain, closed. Please do not revisit this topic in any other forums.

marko
February 11th, 2010, 08:41 AM
This did not need to go on for 3 full pages and 15 minutes of editing.
Someone around here...like to feed trolls instead of pressing one report a post icon. The report a post icon http://www.pets.ca/forum/images/buttons/report.gif is located at the top right of every single post. Clicking it and writing what is going on in a few words reports the post to all the mods and Admin.

Please stop feeding the trolls, it's not fun for me, the Admin, or the mods and many other members.