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Let's Have an Honest and Respectful Discussion

Chaser
January 5th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Something has been weighing on my mind and I've decided to take a chance and just put it out there. Please bear in mind I am NOT referring to any specific people or situations, but rather a general trend.

It seems to me that more and more, when sensitive topics are brought up, it is common for the OP to be attacked and then we attack each other. Statements can so easily be taken out of context in the absence of intonation and body language and I think hurt feelings are a common result. Then our defenses kick in and we hurt others.

I am so incredibly sad to see this happening when it is clear that we all share the common goal of bettering the situation of animals. But when we get sidetracked bickering with each other then we are no longer educating others. Nor are we going to further the cause of animal welfare.

I can only imagine that we will end up losing the valuable contributions of many regular members if this continues. I myself have reduced my time spent here and question my future involvement. This just isn't a very happy place to be a lot of the time - and I haven't really even been involved in any of the more heated discussions. Simply seeing it happen is upsetting because I know everyone has valuable experience and common goals. Why limit our progress by dwelling on minor details and differences of opinion?

Does anyone else feel this way? And if so, are there any suggestions of how we can work together to address it?

I opened this thread with the intention of creating some open communication about the issue as well as to provide the pets.ca community with a chance to do some constructive problem-solving. This is not about pointing fingers and if that happens I will request the mods close the thread immediately.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

quincymycat
January 5th, 2010, 02:46 PM
I think this site has a tremendous amount of great people and the combined knowledge is beyond compare.
That being said, I have found it a tiny bit intimidating at times and usually keep my mouth shut, which for me, is not the norm!:laughing:
I still ask if I need help, and appreciate the opinions put out there..sometimes you just have to take it with a grain of salt and keep an open mind.
Great thread Chaser. :highfive:I hope you get what you are looking for, for everyone here!

happycats
January 5th, 2010, 02:47 PM
I know what you are saying, and I agree, but we all have to understand this is a board with so many different people with so many points of view, and try not to take anything said here personally.

So many here are so passionate about the things they love most, be it animals, pets, breeding, non-breeding, and they (including myself) will defend our points of veiw as passionately as we feel about it. Unfortunately some take it very badly and feel they are being attacked, but that's not the intention, it's just to get different points of views out there, and that in itself helps to educate in my opinion.

I guess we all have to remember not to take things to heart, and sometimes we have to agree to disagree and have no hard feelings or grudges, when responding in new threads.

BenMax
January 5th, 2010, 02:52 PM
I have not seen anything really 'troubling' lately unless I missed something last week.

I think that people conduct themselves on board as they do in real life. If people are looking for honesty, then there are those that are more honest or blunt then others. I think alot is taken out of context and I would assume that everyone is grown up enough to understand that this is a board filled with people of different walks of life, have different experiences and are all opinionated in one way or another.

I have had disagreements with others here, but I would like to think that we are all big girls/boys enough to get over it and keep moving forward.

I am sorry but I don't see where the problem is ...or I must be in the dark completely (which is highly possible).

Chaser
January 5th, 2010, 03:02 PM
I have certainly experienced minor conflict as well - times when I feel defensive and have to leave the computer for a bit because I don't want to express my negative feelings in a post.

Miscommunication and disagreement are bound to happen, I understand that. But I am referring to instances of senior members hashing it out with both new members and other senior members to the point where it's completely unproductive.

Few people seem willing to "agree to disagree" - if the mods didn't eventually shut down some of these threads I wonder if they would ever stop.

BenMax
January 5th, 2010, 03:05 PM
I have certainly experienced minor conflict as well - times when I feel defensive and have to leave the computer for a bit because I don't want to express my negative feelings in a post.

Miscommunication and disagreement are bound to happen, I understand that. But I am referring to instances of senior members hashing it out with both new members and other senior members to the point where it's completely unproductive.

Few people seem willing to "agree to disagree" - if the mods didn't eventually shut down some of these threads I wonder if they would ever stop.

This agree to disagree sounds like a good concept but it is not always considered.

Everyone's tolerance level is different. But if you are asking for honesty, then you are going to get it from people as some are not good a sugar coating anything...and I have to ask why they should be in the first place? They are who they are.

If someone is intimidated to write, that is part of their character or insecurity. That is not anyone elses problem I don't think, as walking on eggshells is highly unpleasant as there are so many characters here on this board. It's an almost damn if you do, damn if you don't situation.

Chaser
January 5th, 2010, 03:10 PM
I just wanted to add that this thread has nothing to do with my feelings being hurt - they haven't been.

What I am trying to say is that I don't think it is right to put the onus on everyone else to grow a thick skin amd not be bothered by heated statements. Rather, we all have a respomnsibility to think before we "speak". We all deserve respect. I can't think of any group of people who are more deserving of respect than all the members here who devote so much of their lives to animals.

erykah1310
January 5th, 2010, 03:13 PM
It does get to the point where you are shunned and singled out if you have a difference of opinion or go against the grain around here.
A lot of the more heated threads end up in people not willing to respect others views or opinions but to further the bashing as more and more gang up.
Thats life though.
A lot of time respect for people flies out the window around here and attacks on heritage or personal life choices do get the better of those who really refuse to see the world through anothers eyes even if only to get a better understanding of it.
I find that this board seems to be the worst for " Do as I say or do and do not have an opinion of your own unless it agrees with mine" which IMO is what has caused pets.ca to dwindle in posts and members.
I believe deep down we ALL are here for our pets and to help as many others out as possible, weird how even people with a common interest can not cowboy up and accept with out bashing.
I am who I am and I have noticed many people here not communicate with me who did at one time and frankly, I do not live my life to please everyone, If you chose not to "talk" to me because you disagree with something i stand for or do, then so be it.
I wont lose any sleep over it as i am trying my best to do best by myself, my pets, my family and true friends.
Until people in general are able to accept people for who they are and take a minute to walk through anothers shoes or see the world through their eyes then there will always be conflict.
educated discussions with reason is no need for eye rolling smilies to defend ones point when they can not think of anything intelligent to counter with, I can agree to disagree just fine but will not sit by idly while I am being attacked or misinformed generalizations are being made. we all have the right to defend.

aslan
January 5th, 2010, 04:05 PM
i must say that on more than one occassion i have been involved in a few of these heated discussions. I am guilty of getting my back up and fighting back when i feel I am being attacked. Not just for my point of view, but personally too. There are occassions when a person has responded to the OP a few times stating the same thing over and over. I think we need to learn that fine we've said our point of view, let it go. If we keep bashing someone over the head with something they are not only going to stop listening but they'll fight back too.

And sometimes if someone says something mean or cruel to someone else on here, then sorry but it IS personal. Insults and nasty comments aren't neccessary to get the point across.:2cents:

luckypenny
January 5th, 2010, 04:20 PM
I think what's important is to make a conscious effort to share ideas/values/beliefs/etc without disrespecting those that belong to others. "I believe this because...." "I feel strongly about because..." "This is what worked for me because..." etc.. It should never be, "You're wrong..." "No, that's not right..." etc.. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, it's how one goes about it. I think the best threads are the ones with many opposing views. It either strengthens my convictions, or begins to change them, and leads me to ask more questions and seek more info.

It's all about learning. The best way to get that done is by listening and sharing...even if you don't agree :shrug:.

It's equally important to know that we're all human and we make mistakes. That's ok too if we learn from them.

BenMax
January 5th, 2010, 04:23 PM
I think what's important is to make a conscious effort to share ideas/values/beliefs/etc without disrespecting those that belong to others. "I believe this because...." "I feel strongly about because..." "This is what worked for me because..." etc.. It should never be, "You're wrong..." "No, that's not right..." etc.. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, it's how one goes about it. I think the best threads are the ones with many opposing views. It either strengthens my convictions, or begins to change them, and leads me to ask more questions and seek more info.

It's all about learning. The best way to get that done is by listening and sharing...even if you don't agree :shrug:.

It's equally important to know that we're all human and we make mistakes. That's ok too if we learn from them.

Very well put.

luckypenny
January 5th, 2010, 04:25 PM
Very well put.

:eek: You agree with me???

:laughing:

:grouphug:

aslan
January 5th, 2010, 04:26 PM
:eek: You agree with me???

:laughing:

:grouphug:

shhhhh she doesn't know xmas is over yet...:D

BenMax
January 5th, 2010, 04:26 PM
:eek: You agree with me???

:laughing:

:grouphug:

I do!!! Hey - there is a first time for everything....:laughing:

No - seriously - I do agree with you. (and that is not a fake: I agree to agree even though I disagree...)

BenMax
January 5th, 2010, 04:27 PM
shhhhh she doesn't know xmas is over yet...:D

You mean good will and cheer is over???:sad:

So does this mean that Moo is now out of the question?

Mowawwaaaa

aslan
January 5th, 2010, 04:28 PM
ok one little moooo, just for you.

bendyfoot
January 5th, 2010, 04:30 PM
I think we need to learn that fine we've said our point of view, let it go. If we keep bashing someone over the head with something they are not only going to stop listening but they'll fight back too.


I completely agree with this. It's fine to disagree, even to disagree strongly, but beating a dead horse accomplishes nothing. It is my opinion that it actually serves to cause uninformed/uneducated posters to get defensive and this brings any potential for learning/teaching to a grinding halt. You can't learn/be educated when your'e pissed off and feeling under attack. There are better ways to communicate your opinion/experience.

I think what's important is to make a conscious effort to share ideas/values/beliefs/etc without disrespecting those that belong to others. "I believe this because...." "I feel strongly about because..." "This is what worked for me because..." etc.. It should never be, "You're wrong..." "No, that's not right..." etc.. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, it's how one goes about it. I think the best threads are the ones with many opposing views. It either strengthens my convictions, or begins to change them, and leads me to ask more questions and seek more info.

It's all about learning. The best way to get that done is by listening and sharing...even if you don't agree :shrug:.

It's equally important to know that we're all human and we make mistakes. That's ok too if we learn from them.

Very well said. Imagine if you were speaking to your partner or good friend about a heated topic...saying things like "I can't beleive you..." "Why on earth didn't you..." "What were you thinking..." is very aggressive and poor communication all-round. Luckypenny provided some excellent ways of getting the same point across without being aggressive...using "I" statements rather that "you" statements. It's a tried-tested-and-true communication technique that leads to much more positive results; you get a two-way DIALOGUE rather than useless "he-said-she-said". :2cents:

bendyfoot
January 5th, 2010, 04:31 PM
I agree to agree even though I disagree...

:confused:what does that even mean???:confused::laughing::laughing::laughing:

BenMax
January 5th, 2010, 04:33 PM
:confused:what does that even mean???:confused::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Exactly!!! Now did I difuse this or what???

Ahh - good point what does it mean? :shrug: What day is it?

bendyfoot
January 5th, 2010, 04:34 PM
I don't know. :confused:

BenMax
January 5th, 2010, 04:36 PM
I don't know. :confused:

Exactly - now everyone is happy that they are confused and have no idea what exactly I said....it is a win-win situation.

BTW - did I mention that I just came out of a rubber room. Sorry so off topic.

Chaser
January 5th, 2010, 05:14 PM
I believe deep down we ALL are here for our pets and to help as many others out as possible, weird how even people with a common interest can not cowboy up and accept with out bashing.

I really like this point erykah - exactly how I've been feeling.

It reminds me of how the feminist movement is suffering because so many feminist groups are too busy bickering with each other about how things should be done, even though the end goal is the same.

Chaser
January 5th, 2010, 05:15 PM
I think what's important is to make a conscious effort to share ideas/values/beliefs/etc without disrespecting those that belong to others. "I believe this because...." "I feel strongly about because..." "This is what worked for me because..." etc.. It should never be, "You're wrong..." "No, that's not right..." etc.. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, it's how one goes about it.

Exactly :)

Frenchy
January 5th, 2010, 06:42 PM
but we all have to understand this is a board with so many different people with so many points of view, and try not to take anything said here personally.

So many here are so passionate about the things they love most, be it animals, pets, breeding, non-breeding, and they (including myself) will defend our points of veiw as passionately as we feel about it.

Ditto. There's many members here and it would be impossible for everyone to agree on everything and that would be very ..... very .... boring anyway . :D

Sorry but when I have something to say , I say it. And I don't feel the need to sugarcoat it. And my english is not good enough to make a whole page with what I have to say , I just say it. :shrug: Like I always say : free speech.

I have had difference of opinions with members here that I consider my friends , so what ? I can turn around , go to another thread and agree with them about a different topic.

And I think this board has tone down A LOT since I joined ! So I don't see any problems. :shrug:

Chaser
January 5th, 2010, 08:37 PM
I read through a thread the other day that didn't strike me as something everyone involved would just be able to "get over".

But maybe I'm not thick-skinned enough and spend too much time thinking like a social worker. Apparently a lot of members don't have the same concern...

hazelrunpack
January 5th, 2010, 08:41 PM
I myself have reduced my time spent here and question my future involvement. This just isn't a very happy place to be a lot of the time - and I haven't really even been involved in any of the more heated discussions. Simply seeing it happen is upsetting because I know everyone has valuable experience and common goals. Why limit our progress by dwelling on minor details and differences of opinion?


I agree with Chaser. I find myself stepping back when the bickering and name-calling starts. I don't mind reasoned discussion, even passionate discussion. A civil exchange of ideas with open minds and respect for other viewpoints is a great learning tool. But too often it turns into an argument or accusations and it does get personal, and I find myself stepping away and considering a hiatus from the board even though I've not gotten involved in that particular thread. Life is stressful enough... :shrug:

Dee-O-Gee
January 5th, 2010, 09:01 PM
My 2 :2cents: :2cents:

Exactly 1 year ago tomorrow evening, I posted my first thread.

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=59670

It was a very sad thread and the end result was devastating to our family. That being said, I never looked back and have continued to grow within this circle of friends for the past year.

Sure, there are heated debates and in depth conversations but only the ones that can withstand these types of communications have the guts to face it, laught at it, come back, start a different thread and move on.

I'll be honest and will pick and choose which thread that I can help with and give that person some of my own personal experience or just a quick response to let them know that I saw their thread and to let them know that they are more than welcomed on this board.

Chaser, it is great that you have opened up this line of communication/concern and sincerely hope that all those who responded and all those who have read these posts give themselves a :highfive: and move on!

Frenchy
January 5th, 2010, 09:14 PM
My 2 :2cents: :2cents:

Exactly 1 year ago tomorrow evening, I posted my first thread.

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=59670



and I was nice ! :p

this is a sad first post though :sad:

hazelrunpack
January 5th, 2010, 09:35 PM
Wow, a year already, klm!!! Hard to believe that time can go so fast! :eek:

Dee-O-Gee
January 5th, 2010, 09:44 PM
and I was nice ! :p

this is a sad first post though :sad:

Yes you were nice Frenchy but I was at a loss and confused. :shrug: One of the reasons that brought me back was yours and everyone elses high spirits and hopes. I just moved on ward and never stopped. :thumbs up

Wow, a year already, klm!!! Hard to believe that time can go so fast! :eek:

I know Hazel. It's hard to believe that a year has past. A lot has transpired over the past year but in any event...I'm still here, having a great time! :thumbs up

Luvmypitgirls
January 5th, 2010, 09:44 PM
I'd just like to add, that I love Pets.ca. I find the people here some of the nicest and most understanding, compared to some other pet sites.

I really haven't noticed any really heated debates on here, other than the inventor of the Pitbull Ban killing someone with his car, that got a tad heated I suppose, but when you are talking about someone losing their life due to the actions of another it's bound to get heated, or passionate depending on everyone's individual perception.

lUvMyLaB<3
January 6th, 2010, 09:34 AM
Yup. . . I have an insane problem of letting my passion getting the better of me, i have a very low tolerence of people that are ignorant of an animals needs. I do actually bite my tongue, believe it or not lol! I dont hold grudges however, and can move on. It does bother me though when people ask for advice, and then disagree with and attack the advice and advisors, and usually that seems to be the root of many of the threads gone south. When people come asking, and you feel you know a tad, when they get aggressive and defensive, it seems then it often gets heated. . .
I dunno, but i know i am who i am, and i do fight hard for any animal, especially cats. . . Just coming out of this sad foster situation where i lost the mother leaving behind 4 babies, and losing the newborns last year, my heart is so broken, that my passion does take over, and my tolerence is very low, my bad, but i have always been that way.
That said though, i have noticed little to no disrespect here, and there are so many amazing people here that should be listened to. I dont think we should lower our standards though, and it is what makes the world go around. If someone gets upset, angry, whatever, oh well, people shouldnt have to change who they are, or what they would say just to play nicer. People get upset, angry, defensive, as long as it is in reason without outright personal attacks, then imo thats ok, it is a public discussion board, it has to be expected. If someone gets angry or upset, so be it, maybe i am just thicker skinned, but if everyone was just always nice, and didnt speak their mind, or get passionate, then it wouldnt be an acurate portrayal of life. The thing is at least if you dont like it, you dont have to read it!
Wow, that got long winded! Anyay i dont see it much, if ever here, more so another forum i belong to, i really think everyone here is very respectful, if someone gets angry sometimes, thats ok, thats life, but all that jibberjabber is just my personal opinion!

Love4himies
January 6th, 2010, 09:46 AM
Yup. . . I have an insane problem of letting my passion getting the better of me, i have a very low tolerence of people that are ignorant of an animals needs. I do actually bite my tongue, believe it or not lol! I dont hold grudges however, and can move on. It does bother me though when people ask for advice, and then disagree with and attack the advice and advisors, and usually that seems to be the root of many of the threads gone south. When people come asking, and you feel you know a tad, when they get aggressive and defensive, it seems then it often gets heated. . .
I dunno, but i know i am who i am, and i do fight hard for any animal, especially cats. . . Just coming out of this sad foster situation where i lost the mother leaving behind 4 babies, and losing the newborns last year, my heart is so broken, that my passion does take over, and my tolerence is very low, my bad, but i have always been that way.
That said though, i have noticed little to no disrespect here, and there are so many amazing people here that should be listened to. I dont think we should lower our standards though, and it is what makes the world go around. If someone gets upset, angry, whatever, oh well, people shouldnt have to change who they are, or what they would say just to play nicer. People get upset, angry, defensive, as long as it is in reason without outright personal attacks, then imo thats ok, it is a public discussion board, it has to be expected. If someone gets angry or upset, so be it, maybe i am just thicker skinned, but if everyone was just always nice, and didnt speak their mind, or get passionate, then it wouldnt be an acurate portrayal of life. The thing is at least if you dont like it, you dont have to read it!
Wow, that got long winded! Anyay i dont see it much, if ever here, more so another forum i belong to, i really think everyone here is very respectful, if someone gets angry sometimes, thats ok, thats life, but all that jibberjabber is just my personal opinion!


I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but I have to say :thumbs up to this post.

We are human, we are passionate and we have emotions.

hazelrunpack
January 6th, 2010, 09:58 AM
I hear what you're saying LML. There are a lot of passionate people on the board. But when passion morphs into perceived or real personal attacks, that's when things fall apart.

I have no problem with disagreement, even passionate disagreement. I do have a problem with incivility. If I make a point with civility it's likely to get heard, even if others don't agree, and everyone moves on. If I get uncivil, the point gets lost in the general angry noise. Everyone stops thinking at that point and starts reacting. :shrug:

In the past, I've pled for a little common sense and civility in particular threads--not in open forum, where it doesn't belong, but by PMs. That doesn't seem to work, either. So I just stay out of some threads from the get-go because I know where they're going to end up. I come here to relax and help out where I can, not seek out additional things to fret over, y'know what I mean?

lUvMyLaB<3
January 6th, 2010, 10:36 AM
Oh yes! I agree! I just sayin i like that people are passionate about animals, some people feel strongly, and may use strong wording. With animals our emotions are bound to be involved, and that to me is ok. I dont either like nasty personal attacks or general nastiness, no, and i cant say i have even seen it. I just mean people shouldnt have to pretend to be all kumbaya when it is something they know and is so close to their heart.

I totaly understand the point, and agree that at times things should either not be said or said differently, but we are who we are and we are dealing with raw emotion. Anyway, that is just my thoughts for what it is worth, thats not much. But dont get me wrong, i agree with you hazel!

hazelrunpack
January 6th, 2010, 10:40 AM
Your thoughts are worth as much as anyone else's, LML. Don't sell yourself short! :D

Chris21711
January 6th, 2010, 10:53 AM
I have no problem with disagreement, even passionate disagreement. I do have a problem with incivility. If I make a point with civility it's likely to get heard, even if others don't agree, and everyone moves on. If I get uncivil, the point gets lost in the general angry noise. Everyone stops thinking at that point and starts reacting. :shrug:



I agree with this 100%.

I try to treat people the way I like to be treated.....the few times I try to give advice I don't tell anyone "they should" or "they should not"....I make suggestions or say "if it were me".

At times OP's ask for advice, but if you are not telling them what they want to hear and start going back and forth things can turn ugly....throw in the towel and pray that their pet will recover from whatever is the problem, be it, health, eating, training, whatever.

I, like most members on here, visit pets.ca for downtime, to have a chuckle, learn, help where we can, not to go to bed hot under the collar.....I have enough in my own life to give me that feeling.

Free speech is a wonderful tool, but it should not be abused :2cents:

BenMax
January 6th, 2010, 10:59 AM
Personally, I don't take what anyone says to heart. We are all behind a screen and there are far more real life personal battles we are currently living, to let words control your mood or day for that matter.

I did review one of the threads that seems to be an issue, and I don't personally see an issue. Maybe I am insensitive?:shrug:.

I find the threads pretty darn tame actually. It is a pretty darn sad day if we must keep editing what is written in order to not step on someone's toes constantly. Personally, I think everyone is permitted to express themselves as they are. That is just my :2cents:.

lUvMyLaB<3
January 6th, 2010, 11:15 AM
Yes BenMax! Well said! I agree, and i didnt see anything that should have started anything, i am thick skinned too though, so who knows! I just dont want to see people editing their real feelings, but i do agree there is a point it isnt constructive anymore. Haha thanks hazel!

Macomom
January 6th, 2010, 11:18 AM
I think we have a responsibility to be respectful to one another, even in moments of heated debate. In my personal experience, some of the threads I have read walk a fine line to being rude. I do not think anyone intends to be rude, but please be accountable for the way you speak to people.

From my observation, borderline rude comments happen most often to new people who are posting in a forum, often asking questions which seem obvious or could be answered through accessible research, ie) food choices, house training, basic discipline techniques.
What we take for granted here is that posting on a forum is a form of research, it is reaching out for education and once these new comers know better, they will do better.

I have posted a few times to say, thanks for reaching out to us, or thanks for picking up a stray, because I think we (as a group) missed that fundamental acknowledgment during our conversations. When we don't educate and we scare, or intimidate people, we have missed the mark. The animals suffer- we had a chance to help and we did not.

An examples of this...
Telling someone who has wiped their dogs nose in feces that they are "abusive". This was an old school technique that many people were taught was an effective way to quickly house train a dog that they love.
Let me be clear, wiping a dogs nose is feces is not a behavior technique that I endorse, and the owner needs to use a different technique- but to come to a forum and be called abusive is harsh, frightening and judgmental.
It does not necessarily educate, it does not support a new member, and most importantly, it does not help the dog- it alienates people and makes them defensive.
I really like the forum, I value your opinions and I have learned a lot here. Now, please join me for a rousing course of Kumbabya…

BenMax
January 6th, 2010, 11:21 AM
One thing that should really be excluded from internet vocabulary is the 'pffft'. That to me is ignorant when used in the 'wrong context'. If someone makes a comment and puts a smiley face next to it, to me they are saying 'I mean you no harm'. That is how I read things anyways. But the pffft...that is another story all together.

happycats
January 6th, 2010, 11:23 AM
I guess it all boils down to what you can handle at the time (we all have our moments, and sometimes we can deal with the "touchy" threads, and at other times we can't.
So what I try to do is stay away from the "touchy" threads if I'm feeling a little "bit*hy" at that time and try to stick with the fun ones or look at the pics:)
Or if you find the "touchy" ones always upset you then, do not enter:D



Kumbaya…ma lord kumbayaaaaaaaaaaaaa...............:D

Macomom
January 6th, 2010, 11:29 AM
LOL, happycats. :laughing:

Oh Lord, Kuuuuuumbayyyyyyaaaaa

BenMax
January 6th, 2010, 11:31 AM
I guess it all boils down to what you can handle at the time (we all have our moments, and sometimes we can deal with the "touchy" threads, and at other times we can't.
So what I try to do is stay away from the "touchy" threads if I'm feeling a little "bit*hy" at that time and try to stick with the fun ones or look at the pics:)
Or if you find the "touchy" ones always upset you then, do not enter:D



Kumbaya…ma lord kumbayaaaaaaaaaaaaa...............:D

Very well put. I agree.:thumbs up

happycats
January 6th, 2010, 11:34 AM
See we're all getting along just wonderfully :D (I'm not feeling particularly bi*chty at the moment) :p
Oh and PMS can wreak havoc on some threads :)

marko
January 6th, 2010, 12:54 PM
I'm glad this thread has come up - Thanks!

All the members know how I feel on this one so i just wanted to address one thing from BM (don't mean to pick on you :) )...

If someone is intimidated to write, that is part of their character or insecurity. That is not anyone elses problem I don't think, as walking on eggshells is highly unpleasant as there are so many characters here on this board. It's an almost damn if you do, damn if you don't situation.

New members in particular are not afraid to write, they come seeking advice. Depending on the sensitivity of some topics, they may get an earful. It's at this critical moment that they make the decision about what kind of 'place' this is.

All it takes is a few rude responses or the suggestion that they are bad pet owners, and then YES, they will watch what they write and many never return...not because they have weak personalities/character, but because they hate bickering. They aren't into drama. So they go elsewhere where they may or may not get what they are looking for. Either way they leave UNeducated and this makes me sad.....and...It usually IS the touchy threads that people need the most education on.

Thx all - :2cents: as usual :)

marko
January 6th, 2010, 01:00 PM
An examples of this...
Telling someone who has wiped their dogs nose in feces that they are "abusive". This was an old school technique that many people were taught was an effective way to quickly house train a dog that they love.
Let me be clear, wiping a dogs nose is feces is not a behavior technique that I endorse, and the owner needs to use a different technique- but to come to a forum and be called abusive is harsh, frightening and judgmental.
It does not necessarily educate, it does not support a new member, and most importantly, it does not help the dog- it alienates people and makes them defensive.
I really like the forum, I value your opinions and I have learned a lot here. Now, please join me for a rousing course of Kumbabya…

This is a PERFECT example Macomom - thx! Marko

aslan
January 6th, 2010, 01:04 PM
It does bother me though when people ask for advice, and then disagree with and attack the advice and advisors, and usually that seems to be the root of many of the threads gone south. When people come asking, and you feel you know a tad, when they get aggressive and defensive, it seems then it often gets heated. . .

unfortunately this is the point where we need to learn to walk away and alot of the time we don't. We try to make the OP listen and they just bash back. Around and around.:sad:

oh and Benmax....pffffft.:D

BenMax
January 6th, 2010, 01:11 PM
I'm glad this thread has come up - Thanks!

All the members know how I feel on this one so i just wanted to address one thing from BM (don't mean to pick on you :) )...

Thx all - :2cents: as usual :)

Put'em up buddy....:laughing: Na - I am ok with what you are saying..

marko
January 6th, 2010, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by lUvMyLaB<3 View Post
It does bother me though when people ask for advice, and then disagree with and attack the advice and advisors, and usually that seems to be the root of many of the threads gone south. When people come asking, and you feel you know a tad, when they get aggressive and defensive, it seems then it often gets heated. . .

It's really all about tact and diplomacy IMO, and I agree it's hard when the OP is ignorant/uneducated. But that's when they need it the most. I too was ignorant before I was educated.

But no matter how uneducated the OP is, IF the responses are tactful, the thread will NOT deteriorate (99% of the time)
...If the OP is put on the defensive by a lack of tact or rudeness...the thread WILL deteriorate. It really is that simple. I've been doing this for almost 10 years now...wow.

Luvmypitgirls
January 6th, 2010, 01:26 PM
I agree with EVERYONE.....:laughing:

The one thing that drew me to this site in the first place was the "passion" for animals and pets.

lUvMyLaB<3
January 6th, 2010, 01:35 PM
Yep i agree, that is what i am saying. . . I mean if someone posts that they shove their dogs nose in poo, then give it a smack, and someone answers very nicely that isnt the best way, the op then answers back i do what i want it works, you know nothing ect. . . That is when it goes south. I said i do agree that things should be either not said, or said differently. BUT, being the passionate humans we are, the are going to be times that we are not going to be able to say ok then if it works for you! You know what i mean? Poor example, but i am just honest, and know that there is no way everyone can play nice all the time when we are talking about something we love so much.

There is a happy medium somewhere between always being fake nice and sharing our toys, and hitting people over the head with our plastic shovel, and taking our toys and going home. . . You know?

Golden Girls
January 6th, 2010, 01:37 PM
New members in particular are not afraid to write, they come seeking advice. Depending on the sensitivity of some topics, they may get an earful. It's at this critical moment that they make the decision about what kind of 'place' this is.

All it takes is a few rude responses or the suggestion that they are bad pet owners, and then YES, they will watch what they write and many never return...not because they have weak personalities/character, but because they hate bickering. They aren't into drama. So they go elsewhere where they may or may not get what they are looking for. Either way they leave UNeducated and this makes me sad.....and...It usually IS the touchy threads that people need the most education onWell said Marko :thumbs up and I'm not just saying that cuz were friends :D

happycats
January 6th, 2010, 01:56 PM
Yep i agree, that is what i am saying. . . I mean if someone posts that they shove their dogs nose in poo, then give it a smack, and someone answers very nicely that isnt the best way, the op then answers back i do what i want it works, you know nothing ect. . . That is when it goes south.

Yup I agree, that's when the gloves come off, or when some smilies come in handy :loser::clown::wall::censored:

Some one here posted it once, I'm not sure of the words exactly but here it goes " Advise, the smart don't need it and fools don't heed it" :)

marko
January 6th, 2010, 02:04 PM
Thanks GG :)

I mean if someone posts that they shove their dogs nose in poo, then give it a smack, and someone answers very nicely that isnt the best way, the op then answers back i do what i want it works, you know nothing ect.

If you see these threads...PLEASE let me know and I will harshly warn any rude newbie/OP.

BUT

In my experience...this is rarely how it works for the heated threads....

When the threads get heated it's because the answers are NOT tactful enough or are simply rude. The OP almost never COMES with tone, after all they are coming for help. You need to be nice when you ask for help...
The OP will have tone only when they feel attacked......

Just callin it like I see it and i am glad we are having this discussion; it can only make this forum a better place :grouphug:

Added after - Just wanted to add that as an Admin, I always just want things to run even smoother :)
...and these really heated threads don't come up as often as they once did...thanks for that! As always members should feel free to PM me when they have concerns.

Thx again! - Marko