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Is it really soo hard for cats to share?!

dollface
November 27th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Hey guys, please tell me if I'm being a PITA, or maybe I just shouldn't have pets, I can take it :sad:

Need to rant! :yell: :yell:

We have 2 purr pads (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753724) cuz we have 2 male cats. Therefore, one for each. They are both fixed. Gizzy was fixed at 8 or 9 months.

Last year, I had blankets to provide a comfy spot for them to sleep on the long couch that seats 3 ppl. After a few days, Gizzy sprayed them even after I washed them to keep Forest off. Now we have the purr pads instead. They were kept on the white loveseat. I keep my computer out on the couch cuz we only have one desk and only room for one computer there. The purr pads were always getting stuck in the couch from my weight, so I moved them. One to each (cloth!) recliner. By the way, no spraying happened when they were side by side on the white loveseat.

Now, a few days later, I smell urine. It's not wet therefore someone sprayed and I'm willing to bet that it was Gizzy since Forest tends to beat on Gizzy. There are times when Gizzy will be sitting on the chair and Forest jumps up, starts licking his head and then proceeds to "play"/fight until Gizzy runs therefore surrendering the spot and Forest makes himself comfortable. Especially when there is a free recliner next to the table not 3 feet away. :frustrated: Lately, I've moved Forest to the other chair before any bothering can start.

My bf is starting to get frustrated and is almost at the "get rid of them" stage. I suggested a crate to keep them in when we can't watch them 24/7. I was thinking of getting them proper beds but this would probably happen again so what's the point? We usually have the soft-sided carriers out and they use them as hideaways as well, but no spraying in there (:fingerscr yet!).

The purr pads are removed for now, although somehow they don't smell, I think Gizzy missed and got the recliner instead :frustrated:

So does anyone have any thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? At wits end!

catlover2
November 27th, 2009, 05:56 PM
Cats can get along, though not always "share". Forest is dominant because he's older, came first, whatever. Cater to Forest's favourite place, by putting his purr pad there (whether it's the long couch or loveseat or whatever). Tell him "this is your spot" and make a fuss over him by giving him a head scratch/treat/"good boy!". Put Gizzy's purr pad on the loveseat or wherever he likes, but not on same piece of furniture as Forest's spot. Tell Gizzy same thing, and if Gizzy goes on Forest's purr pad, pick up him, say "No" and carry him to his own spot. Say "this is your spot" and make a fuss over him/treat, etc.
The idea is to keep them separated and you and your bf happy. For this to work, you and bf willl have to be consistent with this. Then Forest & Gizzy will know what is expected of them.

That's what I'd do, and no I don't think you're a Pain In the $$$. :)

dollface
November 28th, 2009, 02:00 AM
Thank you catlover2!! That sounds like great advice and it's just soo simple! :lightbulb: but here I am to ask confusing questions about it :laughing:

During the first few days, at times when we can't watch them should we take the purr pads away and then replace when we are there to watch? But if that is recommended should I make sure they get the one they were "assigned" in the first place?

catlover2
November 28th, 2009, 03:59 PM
Ask all the questions you like....I'm all for simple solutions----sometimes they work, sometimes not! I should have added that to get them accustomed to know "their spot", always feed them their treats there. Say "go to your spot" and then give them a treat when they get on their purr pad. I would keep the purr pads in place, and always make sure they get their own pad as it has their scent on it. When you're not there to watch them, I would keep them separated. Hope this works out for you---give us an update :fingerscr

dollface
November 30th, 2009, 09:47 PM
That sounds good!

I will post pix if this isn't making sense lol

The only problem I'm having with trying to start this process is the way our furniture is set up. The 3 seater couch has 2 spots, in the creases, covered with aluminum foil cuz of some accidents. I have tried spraying nature's miracle and then the water + peroxide + vinegar mixture, but I still smell pee. Right now Gizzy is curled up next to the arm of the couch only a foot and a half away from the aluminum foil. So I guess that means I can put his purr pad there? Or if not, I have an old empty subwoofer box that I had in an old car, that is kinda like a 2 floor condo for cats. He is currently using that as his sleeping area when he wants to be hidden. There are blankets in there, no accidents/spraying in there cuz Forest doesn't go in there. And not like he can kick Gizzy out of it if he wanted too. Gizzy scratches the outside of the box where the carpet is attached to it.

As for seperating them when we can't watch them, we live in an open concept condo apartment. Our bedroom can be closed off with a door and we have a 2 piece bath that can be closed off as well. I was thinking of leaving Gizzy with free reign to the living/kitchen area and letting Forest have the bedroom. Each would have their own litter box so no accidents. This sounds like a perfect arrangement but I can't think of any cons. Can you?

catlover2
December 1st, 2009, 11:24 AM
A mixture that other people on this forum have found that gets rid of the cat pee smell is:
1 cup water, 1/4 cup isopropyl rubbing alcohol, 1/4 cup white vinegar in a spray bottle. Spray area that smells, mop up, and then spray again and let dry.

I would put the purr pad on the couch where Gizzy likes to lie. Usually cats have their favouite spot, and as long as Forest isn't objecting to his being in that spot. I do think you will have to cater to Forest's preferences since he's older and dominant. The old subwoofer box sounds like a great place for Gizzy so you can use that too if you think it will make him happier.
I can't see any cons to the arrangement to separate them when you're not at home. Try it for a while and see if this arrangement works out better for you, the bf and the cats. Hope it does. :cat:

dollface
December 1st, 2009, 05:17 PM
Thanks catlover2, I'm gonna try it for a day and see :) and yes I have that mixture but i still smell the pee/spray so maybe I did it wrong?

So last night I tried it without separating them, just to see what would happen. A few days ago I rubbed their purr pads on them to get their scent and locked them in each respective carrier that each sleeps in the most.

I put Gizzy's on the end of the couch that is next to a pee spot, can't really help it cuz it's in the crease between the 2 seats, and Forest's got the recliner. So I put Gizzy on his first and said "this is your spot" and gave him a treat. Then I put Forest on his, said "this is your spot" and gave him a treat. Gizzy jumped down from his spot when I gave Forest his treat, thinking it was for him too. So I walked over to Gizzy's spot with treats in hand, stood there for a few seconds, and he came running knowing what he was going to get. He is such a smarty pants!! :D Must be the bengal in him hehe!! So I went to bed with each on their own bed.

Forest, on the other hand, is your typical domestic and doesn't learn as quick. So today when I came out, Forest's bed was empty and he was on Gizzy's bed :frustrated: so I picked him up and put him on his bed on the recliner, and said "this is your spot" and gave him a treat. He ate it timidly. Thank gawd Gizzy was in his sub box PHEW! So I went to the box and gave him a treat in there too. Then he came out and followed me to his other bed and I gave him another treat. Now as I write this, Forest is still on his own bed sleeping and Gizzy is in his box.

I hope I did all this right! Please let me know if I made a mistake anywhere or where I can improve. Should I just make the sub box Gizzy's only place? Although, I'd like for him to have a place to sleep out in the open as well. Should I try a few more days without separating to see if Forest learns or should I separate and then watch him learn with my supervision? Sorry for all the questions :o

catlover2
December 1st, 2009, 06:02 PM
Fortunately I've never had to use the alcohol/vinegar mixture as my two have good litter box habits. Apparently other people have had success with it...maybe it needs several applications to get rid of the smell.

Thanks for the update. You did it exactly right, fab! Good job! And yes Gizzy is the smarty pants for sure.
I would leave them be and leave their purr pads in place, but since Forest doesn't want the sub box anyway and Gizzy is the more active one, I would leave it out for him since he likes to go in it. Try for a few more days to see if they'll behave themselves. If they have a fight, I would separate them for a couple of days when you aren't able to observe and supervise. Then try them together again. Hopefully they'll catch on if they fight they don't have each other's company, but if they behave they do. Always give them positive reinforcement for good behaviour, it doesn't always have to be a treat when a head scratch and "good boy!" feels just as good. Good luck! :cat:

dollface
December 1st, 2009, 09:34 PM
Woohoo! I did it right :)

After they got fed at 7pm, Gizzy went to his spot and Forest was about to jump up to bug him but I picked him up and put him on his spot, said "good boy" and gave him a belly rub. Then he got down and tried again, but I just repeated the process. I hope that was ok. He has stayed there since.

Gizzy's spot got moved for half an hour while we ate dinner, we don't eat at a table cuz we don't have room, so I moved his bed to the floor just by my feet and he laid there til my bf moved out of his spot, but he's back now. :)

dollface
December 1st, 2009, 09:57 PM
Kind of off topic, but since you know a lot about cats, have you ever heard of a cat that bites these purr pads/thick bedding during a nightmare? About 99% of the time, Forest will meow from waking up but then bites the purr bad and start moaning, he'll open his eyes but then close them again so it seems like he's having a nightmare. And since the purr pads keep him warm, I'm wondering if the heat is creating the nightmare and that he needs to "kill" whatever is under him?

When I first joined and asked, no one had heard of this and I can't find anything on the internet so just wondering if this is normal or what?

catlover2
December 1st, 2009, 11:48 PM
Can't say I've heard of that specific behaviour before, but nothing would surprise me. It's possible he feels too warm and becomes uncomfortable so maybe that triggers the biting. Does he move off the pad then?....if he did it may indicate he felt too warm. It does seem strange tho. Who knows what a cat's dreaming of when they twitch or make noises sleeping? :sleepy: I think it's all normal behaviour.

Maybe an animal communicator could say what's happening, but don't know if we have any on this forum. Helloooo, anyone out there? :cool:

dollface
December 2nd, 2009, 01:09 AM
No he'll stay there even after we wake him up to tell him there's nothing there to bite :confused:

An animal communicator would be a great idea! Wish I knew one near me!

dollface
December 2nd, 2009, 05:42 PM
Update: Came out today and Forest was on his own bed and Gizzy in his box!! Let's see how the rest of today goes and tomorrow lol

catlover2
December 2nd, 2009, 06:27 PM
:thumbs up Good news! hope it continues.:cat:

dollface
December 2nd, 2009, 11:49 PM
When I wasn't looking, Forest fell asleep on Gizzy's spot. I moved him and pet him. Later, Gizzy was about to jump on Forest's bed, but I said "No, go to your spot" and he ran like the wind to his bed!

Almost want to keep them separated 24/7 :frustrated: :laughing:

catlover2
December 3rd, 2009, 11:15 AM
Smart Gizzy!.... just think of the tricks you can teach this cat! Happy to hear things are better.

dollface
December 3rd, 2009, 07:33 PM
I bought some No Mark spray tonight just to cover all my bases. I hope it helps!

catlover2
December 4th, 2009, 09:54 AM
Gizzy may not feel the need to spray now that Forest is not allowed to be so dominant to him. Spraying is often a frustration behaviour. Hope you won't need the spray, but good to have it on hand just in case. It sounds like you're well on the way to solving your "sharing" problems. Hope your bf no longer feels at the "get rid of them stage". Happy cats=happy people! :cat::cat:

dollface
December 5th, 2009, 12:55 AM
I did not realize that he could be doing it out of frustration, it makes sense though. What should I do if Gizzy swats at Forest when he walks by or when they are sitting near each other?

And my bf has chillaxed now :laughing:

catlover2
December 5th, 2009, 10:20 AM
Cats swat each other---they like to do that & some more than others---sometimes it's just a "hey you!", a "wanna play?", a "jerk/dumbass" or whatever? With the big age diff between Gizzy & Forest, it's likely a "wanna play" gesture. If it's a few swats and then they ignore each other or start playing, I would just ignore it too and let them be. But sometimes a few swats escalate into a real fight. If the ears are back flat, heads erect, direct stares and it looks like it's going that way, just give a loud "PSSSST!" and a "No!", and then distract them with a toy or stamp your feet or something. Glad to her the BF is "chillaxed" (I like that expression!:))

dollface
December 31st, 2009, 06:09 PM
Ok so time for another update. Gizzy is basically trained to jump to his spot on the couch even if the purr pad is not there. And when my bf sits in his spot to play video games he goes to his sub box or the cardboard box my breadmaker came in for xmas. Forest, is another story. He just doesn't care, unless I catch him or snap my fingers. Forest wants to explore the new cardboard box but Gizzy claimed it first so it's only fair, right? Grrr.

Since Forest had an accidental peeing on his spot on the recliner he found a new spot to curl up in, one of the carriers by the wall and I put his red blanket over it to keep the heat in. Then I took off the red blanket and put it on his spot to remind him he has other spots to sleep and I put a heavier blanket partially over the carrier.

Then Christmas eve night comes around. We get home at 12am and Gizzy jumps up on Forest's red blanket and sprays right in front of my bf! He's not soo good at policing like I am and I wasn't in the room. Grr.

Then today when my bf was resetting the router (have to get close to the ground) he smells spray! I never thought he would spray the carpet where it's basically no man's land and it's where everyone walks!

But I just read that spraying could be a medical problem. What kind of problem would that be?? Should I take him to the vet to get checked out?

Now bf is all unchillaxed and says if Gizzy does it again he's gone! He just won't listen to me that we just have to keep them separated when we're not around to watch them and he won't hear of it. He refuses to asknowledge that Forest is part of the problem too. He also says that in the 6 cats he's had while growing up, they never introduced them and they never had a problem. And yes our mistake was not introducing them at all, I just had no idea, 1st time cat owner over here. I don't know what else to do to make him understand. I feel like my only options are to put diapers on them cuz I feel our already-busting-at-the-seams apartment is too small to separate them, or just separate them in each bathroom, but one is a half-bath and the other is a full-bath cuz I don't trust them to each have full run of the bedroom where our clothes are and the other to have full-run of the rest of the space where the furniture is. Soo confused and frustrated. :sad:

catlover2
December 31st, 2009, 11:19 PM
Sounds like Forest was jealous that Gizzy got the new box and wanted to check it out. Cats find boxes fascinating, and I know if I put a box on the floor, both mine want to check it out immediately. You might get another box and put it near where Forest sleeps and just let him explore it (and Gizzy too), then when they tire of it, remove it. You could make a foil ball and put it in for them to play with. Find them some different toys (pingpong ball, plastic pull tab from frozen juice can, toy mice, teaser toy). Better to keep the boys busy; this gets their mind off other behaviours like peeing or swatting, tires them out and then they relax better.

The "accidental peeing" is worrisome to me. Did Forest do it just once, or maybe he also did it on the rug? Male cats especially can be prone to Urinary Tract Infections (UTI) and bladder problems, and first sign is usually peeing outside the litter box, or may be very frequent peeing or attempts. It can be a serious situation, so you should take Forest (and Gizzy) to be checked by a vet to see if there is any medical problem. Some senior cats may have some problems holding their urine, and Forest is 15 y.o., so that's another consideration. Are you feeding them dry food? Sometimes this can lead to urinary and bladder problems. Any good quality canned food is preferable to dry. Do any food changes very gradually to prevent digestive upset.
Altho Gizzy peeing on Forest's blanket sounds like domination behavior, rather than a medical issue with him. Does Gizzy have a blanket for his box where he likes to sleep? Perhaps if he doesn't, it's his crazy way of saying he's wants a blanket too. At least a blanket is easy to wash!

In spite of these recent events, it does sound like their relationship is better than it was before, and hope your bf realizes that and can show some patience. It's hard to compare his experiences with the 6 cats and there were no problems, as the circumstances, space, sexes and temperaments were different, so it's like trying to compare apples and oranges. If keeping Forest & Gizzy separate while you're out was working, I'd continue with that.
Hope this has been helpful, and hope you'll give us an update on your vet's report. Relax! They will sense your anxiety and frustration. Now take a deeeep breath! :goodvibes:

dollface
January 3rd, 2010, 11:29 PM
I think I wrote that out of order lol.

Forest's accident was a couple weeks ago.

Gizzy peed/sprayed Christmas Eve night. We had to go to dinner in Ancaster that night so we left them at home alone. And I guess Gizzy was either glad we came home to show his frustration (if it was spray) or he was trying to tell us that the litter box was dirty and he couldn't wait 5 minutes for us to get to it! :frustrated:

I got my breadmaker Christmas Day, and opened it Boxing Day then the empty box was put in between the 2 carriers that act as tunnels/beds.

We haven't tried separating them, but maybe we should because I feel I have to keep a watchful eye on both of them and that makes me have a bad sleeping schedule. Go to bed at 5am wake up at 2pm. But that only really worked this past week and a half cuz my bf was on vacation, he is back to work tomorrow.

Last night, Forest got up from sleeping on his spot. I thought he was hungry. I got up to see if he was eating, nope not there. Sat back down, maybe he went to use the litter. Nope, he jumped up on Gizzy's spot where Gizzy was sleeping and if I wasn't there to pick Forest up and move him back to his spot under the blanket (that was washed) we would have woke up to more spray smell, cuz I'm pretty sure Forest just wanted to launch a sneak attack on Gizzy to steal his already warm bed! :frustrated: Off to kijiji to find a cheap large dog crate if one exists! :laughing: :fingerscr

Edit: We feed a canned diet, albeit a cheap canned diet due to low funds still, Fancy Feast wheat gluten free.

catlover2
January 4th, 2010, 07:41 AM
You mention "the litter box". Do you only have the one? It would be better if you had 2 boxes (clean out wastes am & pm every day).

You said: "I'm pretty sure Forest just wanted to launch a sneak attack on Gizzy to steal his already warm bed!"

How can you be sure of that? My take on it is that Forest just wanted a warm body to snuggle and sleep beside. I think I would have just let Forest stay there instead of moving him away. Gizzy was not objecting to Forest being in his bed as you found them together and was enjoying Forest's snuggling and warm body. I would have just given them both a kiss on their heads, told them "Good boys!", left them like that and gone back to bed. If they're behaving well together there's no reason to separate them. Just my :2cents:
I realize you feel under pressure from bf, but try to relaaax, and go with the flow. :cat: :cat:

dollface
January 4th, 2010, 03:39 PM
We have 2 litter boxes :)

I am sure of it cuz I watch Forest all the time and know what his intentions are. He never wants to snuggle with Gizzy (the only time he wants to snuggle is on a person's lap, or under the covers with you), he just wants to be a bully and kick him out of Gizzy's own bed. He would never turn his nose up at an opportunity to dominate Gizzy, especially since I have stopped him from doing it lately. This is what this thread is based on. I was awake playing a video game from the couch across the room and saw him jump up to where Gizzy was sleeping/laying. Just like you have said you have observed cat's actions for so long, I have learned to watch Forest like a hawk during this whole situation. Also, since I am not working, watching them interact and learning their behaviors has taught me that they really can't be trusted together unless supervised. I only feel ok going to bed when Gizzy is tucked away in the sub box and Forest is tucked away under a blanket or in a carrier, and hopefully does not see or hear me going to bed. :laughing: success rate=1% of the time.

catlover2
January 5th, 2010, 12:07 AM
For some reason or other, I thought you had gone to bed and then got up in the night and found them together. I'm sure you read the situation correctly then, as there is nothing like observation and as you say "watch Forest like a hawk" to figure out what's going on. For some reason or other I thought that they did cuddle together occasionally, but you say Forest "never wants to snuggle with Gizzy", so in that case he was likely trying to dominate Gizzy. I think you've figured out their relationship very well and are able to keep a peaceful environment. You're doing a good job! :thumbs up Sometimes as years go by cats do become good buddies, but also some never do and just sort of tolerate each other, and then there's the other extreme where two hate each other and fight. I doubt things will change between Forest and Gizzy, mainly because of Forest's age and at 15 yrs. he's set in his ways.
As for the occasional inappropriate peeing, now that's a hard nut to crack, as it's often not apparent what specific thing triggers it. I do know that males, even tho they're neutered, are more prone to this sort of thing than females. For that very reason, when I retired from breeding and showing, I only kept 4 girls. They've passed on to kitty heaven some years ago, and I have a spay and neuter now, tho he's a really good boy. Good luck! :fingerscr

dollface
January 5th, 2010, 01:18 AM
Thanks catlover2! You are helping soo much it means the world to me! :) I really am trying! Sorry if there was any confusion :o my bad!

I doubt these two will ever become best buds but it would be nice lol maybe if I get more kitties they can bond :laughing: fat chance! The only time they tolerate each other is when they are getting food and even then Forest has one foot ready to leave then comes back to graze when Gizzy is nowhere in sight. :laughing:

Glad you have kitties that get along! I find that happens very rarely unless they grew up together.

If I were to get a crate for them if I really did need to separate them, how big would be big enough for a litter box, food and water bowls? Or should I just look for the normal cat playpen that has the 2 levels?

catlover2
January 5th, 2010, 10:03 AM
It really depends on how long the cat has to stay in the crate. If for more than a day or days, I found a large size dog crate is the best size, as you can get food, water & litter box in without it being too crowded. My hubby made a carpet-covered shelf to fit in it. A cat playpen would work as they take up less floor space since there's more vertical height and often have more than one shelf, but they don't give as much walking-around room as a dog crate. So your choice.

As far as adding more cats in your apt., "fat chance" is right! It would likely stimulate more frequent peeing.

Altho my cats are related (same dam, different sires), they didn't grow up together, tho they seemed to sense they were kin and by the second day they cuddled together.

I'm glad you feel I've helped......:) Take care.

dollface
January 5th, 2010, 03:48 PM
Ya I won't be adding anymore until we get a bigger place, like a house with a big backyard to create an enclosure and not roam free. But also actually introduce them properly and I'm sure I will be asking q's about that when the time comes :laughing:

They would only be in their own crate (blanket covered for darkness and safety) when we go out or go to bed. We wouldn't leave them for more than a day and if it was that long we would have to board them. I found these sizes on Kijiji, I don't know dog sizes so which one would be big enough?

L xW xH
19"x12x15 - TEA CUP DOGS
24"x17x19 - SHIH TZU, MALTESE, YORKIE
30"x19x21 - COCKAPOO, PUG
36"x23x25 - BULLDOG
42"x28x30 - LAB
48"x30x32 - SHEPPARD, RETRIEVER
54"x37x40 - DOBERMAN, GREAT DANE

catlover2
January 6th, 2010, 09:09 AM
I have an old crate and it measures L=34" x W=14" x H=24", so it would be close to the "Bulldog" size. Obviously the size of the cat matters too. A small cat wouldn't need one as big as a Maine Coon size cat--all my cats have been average size. I have another "large size" dog crate that measures L=36" x W=20 x H=29", so it seems measurements vary greatly!

Get the cats used to the crate as a safe and pleasant place by putting all their treats and meals in them. I think Forest will especially benefit from this feeling of security while eating as you say "has one foot ready to leave then comes back to graze when Gizzy is nowhere in sight." Let us know how things turn out. :fingerscr

dollface
January 15th, 2010, 08:48 PM
Another Update: Time for diapers? Gizzy has sprayed again. He sprayed Forest's chair, bed and blanket. My bf doesn't want me to spend money on a crate and he thinks its cruel, he just doesn't understand that it's for his safety. I don't know what to do anymore. He's never going to stop spraying. Giving him up and letting him be someone else's problem or be put down is not something I can think about but I feel like I'm running out of options. :( :frustrated:

dollface
January 15th, 2010, 11:51 PM
Would it make things worse if we only got 1 crate to keep Gizzy in? Forest can have free run with Gizzy enclosed to keep the spraying to a minimum. Or would it be better for both of them to have their own crate? Would something like this be good enough: http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-PET-CAT-KENNEL-DOG-PUPPY-PLAYPEN-EXERCISE-PEN-GREEN_W0QQitemZ160389536667QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item2557f61b9b ?

If I spray the areas with Nature's Miracle, then the water/vinegar/hydrogen peroxide solution, then febreeze (for our noses' sake) will that deter him?

In case a crate is out of the question (even thought it would probably be the less expensive route over time), would drug therapy be the option to go?

catlover2
January 16th, 2010, 03:12 PM
I don't think the pet play pen would work with Gizzy, he would only spray the walls and then it would be a constant cleanup to keep up with it. It wouldn't be my choice.

The choice of putting him on some sort of medication is "iffy" IMHO. It might make him tranquilized or calm enough that he doesn't spray, but what would be the long term effects of the medication on him?

Diapers are an option. I had a stud cat once that was a bad sprayer and I made my own stud pants for him to let him have some freedom in the house outside of his cage. I used toilet paper as a "panty liner".
http://www.castlepaws.net/studpants.html
or if you wanted to make your own, here's a pattern.
http://www.cat-world.com.au/home-made-stud-pants-a-overalls

Another option is to leash train him and take him for a brief walk once a day and let him squirt to his content. I used to do this with 2 of my studs (not at the same time!) they really enjoyed it and got all excited when they saw me coming with the harness and leash, would stand patiently by the door to have it put on and could hardly wait to get outside. These two were satisfied with squirting outside, but didn't do it in the house.

I haven't used those Feliway Diffusers, but from what I've read on other threads, sometimes they work wonders and sometimes have no effect. Here's a link:
http://www.feliway.com/gb/All-about-Feliway-R

Unfortunately, Gizzy just seems to be one of those males that's a sprayer, and what triggers it is hard to say....definitely something related to Forest....jealousy or just asserting himself.....who knows? I wouldn't have a cat put down because of spraying, but unfortunately this is the #1 reason that cats are euthanized. Hope these suggestions can help you cope. :fingerscr :cat:

dollface
January 16th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Thanks catlover2! You're replies calm me down soo much!

Good point about the playpen, off the list!

Medications would probably be a last resort only cuz giving him pills stresses him out even more, so off the list for now.

Did not expect the answer about the diapers :laughing: But it looks like it could do the trick! I will just have to deal with bf's laughter.

When I first got him, I had him leash trained a little bit. We live on the top floor of an apartment so I got him used to the leash while taking a tour down the hallways. I might have to try taking him outside, but in carrier first cuz he avoids the elevators like the plague if on leash.

I've read the same as you about the feliway diffusers. I'm iffy on trying them cuz they are soo expensive and IF they work, depending on the cat.

I almost had victory today regarding the crate. I found one at petsmart 30x22x23 on reduced price, persuaded my bf that I'm buying it and bringing it home. He was pretty grumpy about it. So we got home, set it up, and then realized the door doesn't open wide enough for the litter box. So we did some handy maneuvering and got it in, but only half a foot was left for a bed and food. So in the end, bf won, and it's going back to petsmart. And the ones I found on Kijiji are good prices but i have a feeling the litter box won't fit in them either, since I had the one bought today to compare it to.

So that leaves me with the diaper option. Would I keep it on all day and change it after he goes to the litter? Or only put it on when I can't supervise him? This may prepare me for that baby stage ppl are always talking about :laughing:

quincymycat
January 16th, 2010, 07:42 PM
Hey Dollface.
I have used the Feliway diffuser, plugged into the outlet in my center hall, when it first came on the market. Milo was, and really still is, a bit on the jumpy side, and I had hoped it would work, but I had really no success with it. It may have been that I only had one going - the cost was even worse when they first came out and it was wasn't providing enough to fill the whole house and he would almost have to be laying next to it to work. I gave it to my breeder, and she said it worked when she used it in one room where the "uptight" kitties would be, so it may be worth it to try one. I think the initial diffuser should work about a month and you will know by then if it is going to have an effect. Maybe the poor boy is picking up on the vibes from b/f?
Good luck. I know the smell is something awful. My guys don't spray, but I have had one in the past that would.

catlover2
January 16th, 2010, 10:37 PM
Yes it will be like looking after a baby! :laughing: tho you won't have to burp him! :D No I wouldn't keep it on all day, just when you can't supervise him, and definitely if he's going into the litter box, whip it off so he doesn't poo in it.:yuck: Be prepared that it will take him a bit of time to get used to stud pants, as my cats lay down and didn't want to move at first.

Good luck on finding a crate. Do you have Freecycle where you live? http://www.freecycle.org/group/CA/Ontario It's a great service and someone just might have one kicking around in their garage. You could join and put in a "Wanted" request for one. Good luck! :fingerscr

dollface
January 17th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Hey Dollface.
I have used the Feliway diffuser, plugged into the outlet in my center hall, when it first came on the market. Milo was, and really still is, a bit on the jumpy side, and I had hoped it would work, but I had really no success with it. It may have been that I only had one going - the cost was even worse when they first came out and it was wasn't providing enough to fill the whole house and he would almost have to be laying next to it to work. I gave it to my breeder, and she said it worked when she used it in one room where the "uptight" kitties would be, so it may be worth it to try one. I think the initial diffuser should work about a month and you will know by then if it is going to have an effect. Maybe the poor boy is picking up on the vibes from b/f?
Good luck. I know the smell is something awful. My guys don't spray, but I have had one in the past that would.

Hmmm, interesting. I think I will keep this in mind. I have used the Feliway knockoff spray "At Ease" and it seemed to work, then we ran out of it and forgot about it. I think it's time to raid eBay lol

dollface
January 17th, 2010, 04:35 PM
Yes it will be like looking after a baby! :laughing: tho you won't have to burp him! :D No I wouldn't keep it on all day, just when you can't supervise him, and definitely if he's going into the litter box, whip it off so he doesn't poo in it.:yuck: Be prepared that it will take him a bit of time to get used to stud pants, as my cats lay down and didn't want to move at first.

Good luck on finding a crate. Do you have Freecycle where you live? http://www.freecycle.org/group/CA/Ontario It's a great service and someone just might have one kicking around in their garage. You could join and put in a "Wanted" request for one. Good luck! :fingerscr

There will be times when I can't watch him and he will have to use the litter, what then? And I had no idea freecycle existed, just thought it was on here, i'll have to check my area out! Thanks :D

Ok so last night as a last ditch attempt, I got out the h20/peroxide/vinegar solution and just sprayed all the furniture and anything else he might want to spray. And the arms of our couch/recliners of where the 2 beds are are covered with aluminum foil. So we have space furniture and live in vinegar :laughing: but I can barely smell it now so hopefully they can and just stop it. I think I will spray it for a week at night and see if it does anything.

dollface
January 23rd, 2010, 04:19 PM
So I've been spraying the vinegar/peroxide/water solution every night. I haven't smelled any spray lately, but when I pet him he does kinda smell like it. So I dunno if he's still doing it, or if it's even possible for him to have a spray blockage problem??

catlover2
January 23rd, 2010, 06:50 PM
If he's peeing in the litter box a normal amount, he wouldn't have a "spray blockage" problem. With all that vinegar solution you've sprayed around that's likely what you're smelling. :D

dollface
January 31st, 2010, 01:09 AM
Thanks catlover2, there has been no spraying! You should be a cat behaviourist! :angel:

catlover2
February 1st, 2010, 08:40 AM
Thanks for the update. That's the kind of news we like to hear! :thumbs up :) Good Gizzy! :cat:

As to being a "cat behaviourist", it's something I've thought about for a long time and am considering taking an animal communication workshop.

dollface
February 1st, 2010, 05:08 PM
Well you've been a great help in my books! If I didn't know better I would have thought you were one already :D :thumbs up I didn't know they had workshops like that, I think that would really be interesting to take! :)

dollface
March 16th, 2010, 04:01 PM
Smelled spray today. Baffled as to why it's always in the same spot; on Forest's bed on his recliner although he hasn't slept there consistently in over a month b/c now we just leave the the other recliner reclined and Forest wedges himself into his very own "hammock" spot. Really wishing I had a separate room for them!

catlover2
March 16th, 2010, 07:13 PM
I'm assuming it's Gizzy who sprayed where Forest sleeps and not Forest spraying there, right? Did you try the diapers?

dollface
March 16th, 2010, 07:59 PM
Yes we assume it was Gizzy. Forest used to sleep there but not so much anymore. Haven't tried the diapers because there was a lot of progress and there was no more spraying since I last posted until today. Going to look into it right now though! But if I do go that route, he'd have to be in one from 6:30am to about 1pm M-F and then when we go to sleep at night, is that a feasible idea?

catlover2
March 16th, 2010, 11:35 PM
Probably not feasible since you're away too long, certainly you wouldn't want him pooping in them!

Peeing is usually a sign of frustration or asserting dominance ("this is mine!"). It seems to me that Gizzy is constantly jealous of Forest or maybe trying to dominate him by peeing on his spots where his scent is, even tho he hasn't used that bed for a while. So does Gizzy end up takie over these places? And has he peed on Forest's new resting place? I guess the important thing here is, does this bother Forest or could he care less as he has a new "hammock" recliner. At one time you said that Forest was dominant over Gizzy, so has their relationship flipped? Does Forest still dominate Gizzy or does he pretty much ignore him and do his own thing? If Forest is still trying to dominate Gizzy it could be Gizzy getting back at him by peeing on his bed.

I've had stud cats, unspayed females, as well as neuters and spays. It's been my experience that generally speaking males, whether neutered or not, tend to spray a lot more females (unless they're in heat!). Once a male even tho neutered starts spraying regularly, it's very difficult to correct this behaviour, as often events will just set him off---change in household (new person/another pet), change in routine of owner (shift work), seeing another cat outiside, smelling another cat off your hands or clothes. Any of these things and more could be a trigger to spray something. It's natural for whole male cats to spray, but I have known some breeders who were able to let their stud full freedom in the house and never sprayed. So it really depends a lot on the cat's personality and whether he's bothered by things or just really laid back. I've had some neuters that did spray and others that didn't. My present neuter has never sprayed and he has neighbour cats regularly visit and look at him through our patio doors. You might just have to reconcile yourself that Gizzy is a spayer :frustrated:, at least from time to time, and try to discover what it is that triggers it so it becomes a rare event, but have a good urine eraser just in case.

If Gizzy's just spraying while you're out, perhaps the only solution is to keep them separated; let Forest have your bedroom or let Gizzy have the bathroom or get a dog crate and keep Gizzy confined until you get home. :sorry:this is so long, I got carried away!

MyBirdIsEvil
March 16th, 2010, 11:56 PM
Have you thought about doing an outdoor enclosure (preferably somewhere the smell wouldn't be too bothersome around the house, because obviously he'll do it out there)?

The leash thing is a good suggestion too.

I have a female cat that's a sprayer and the only thing that slows it down is giving her outdoor time. She doesn't do it constantly but she will do it on things that are new in the house and periodically in random places. She is fixed, it doesn't matter, I think it's a habit of hers and she was probably doing it before we got her (we got her as a rescue and she was already fixed and an adult). Luckily female cats spray doesn't smell as bad as a males, but it can still be pretty bad sometimes.

With your furniture you may wanna try covering in plastic. You can cover the plastic with a cloth furniture cover to hide it and that can just be thrown in the wash. It would make things a lot easier.
I've tried to find cloth furniture covers that are waterproof, kind of like the covers that go on beds, but no luck :shrug:. You could try making one yourself with a waterproof liner if you're good with a sewing machine, but it would be expensive compared to the plastic and furniture cover suggestion. It would look nicer though.

dollface
March 17th, 2010, 09:53 AM
Probably not feasible since you're away too long, certainly you wouldn't want him pooping in them!

Peeing is usually a sign of frustration or asserting dominance ("this is mine!"). It seems to me that Gizzy is constantly jealous of Forest or maybe trying to dominate him by peeing on his spots where his scent is, even tho he hasn't used that bed for a while.
So does Gizzy end up takie over these places? When I was trying to establish their own beds, Gizzy would sneak on Forest's bed to sleep or lay on. Then I would pick him up and move him to his own bed. He doesn't really associate his bed with the purr pad, but the specific spot of the couch. So if my bf puts Gizzy's purr pad on the ground so my bf can sit where Gizzy usually lays. Gizzy will sit in front of him and meow at him, not even caring about his purr pad on the ground. I'm wondering if I should just get them actual beds instead of using the purr pads so they actually associate it as an appropriate sleeping spot...
And has he peed on Forest's new resting place? No he hasn't, mostly b/c Forest is permanently glued to it.
I guess the important thing here is, does this bother Forest or could he care less as he has a new "hammock" recliner. At one time you said that Forest was dominant over Gizzy, so has their relationship flipped? I don't think so, I do see a few swats from Gizzy at Forest, but Forest just walks away as if he doesn't care. I don't think Gizzy will ever become the dominant one.
Does Forest still dominate Gizzy or does he pretty much ignore him and do his own thing? I'm thinking he still does it but I haven't seen him do it. I think he knows he gets yelled at when we DO see him doing it, so he does it when we aren't looking (i.e. not at home or sleeping).
If Forest is still trying to dominate Gizzy it could be Gizzy getting back at him by peeing on his bed. This is what I suspect that is still going on. I had stopped spraying the water & vinegar sol'n for awhile cuz there was no spraying and I thought we were cured. Silly me! :frustrated:

I've had stud cats, unspayed females, as well as neuters and spays. It's been my experience that generally speaking males, whether neutered or not, tend to spray a lot more females (unless they're in heat!). Once a male even tho neutered starts spraying regularly, it's very difficult to correct this behaviour, as often events will just set him off---change in household (new person/another pet), change in routine of owner (shift work), seeing another cat outiside, smelling another cat off your hands or clothes. Any of these things and more could be a trigger to spray something. It's natural for whole male cats to spray, but I have known some breeders who were able to let their stud full freedom in the house and never sprayed. So it really depends a lot on the cat's personality and whether he's bothered by things or just really laid back. I've had some neuters that did spray and others that didn't. My present neuter has never sprayed and he has neighbour cats regularly visit and look at him through our patio doors. You might just have to reconcile yourself that Gizzy is a spayer :frustrated:, at least from time to time, and try to discover what it is that triggers it so it becomes a rare event, but have a good urine eraser just in case.

If Gizzy's just spraying while you're out, perhaps the only solution is to keep them separated; let Forest have your bedroom or let Gizzy have the bathroom or get a dog crate and keep Gizzy confined until you get home. :sorry:this is so long, I got carried away!

I have pitched this idea over and over to my bf but he just keeps saying no! :yell::frustrated: He is soo not a responsible cat owner! GRR! and trying to find a big enough dog crate that will house a litter box and food is hell especially when we have limited funds. This is why I'm trying to convince my bf to move and take up his mom's suggestion. She wants to help us out in the living situation and help his sister at the same time. She wants to see if she can buy a house with a basement apartment and we live upstairs while his sister gets the basement. Even though we will spend more on gas we will have a lot more that $100 to spend every month! At least $400 more! I don't understand why he keeps saying no to more money saved just b/c his sister will be splitting the rent but living in separate quarters. :frustrated: And this will solve a lot of problems we have now: Forest and Gizzy will have separate rooms, I can have more closet space, we will have a backyard (to bbq)!, no elevators, a garage (for him to work on his car cuz he will have money!), the list goes on and on and he is still fixated on the fact we will be living very close to his sister. Sorry for the kinda off-topic rant, but it would solve this problem that we have with Gizzy, I think!

Have you thought about doing an outdoor enclosure (preferably somewhere the smell wouldn't be too bothersome around the house, because obviously he'll do it out there)?

The leash thing is a good suggestion too.

I have a female cat that's a sprayer and the only thing that slows it down is giving her outdoor time. She doesn't do it constantly but she will do it on things that are new in the house and periodically in random places. She is fixed, it doesn't matter, I think it's a habit of hers and she was probably doing it before we got her (we got her as a rescue and she was already fixed and an adult). Luckily female cats spray doesn't smell as bad as a males, but it can still be pretty bad sometimes.

With your furniture you may wanna try covering in plastic. You can cover the plastic with a cloth furniture cover to hide it and that can just be thrown in the wash. It would make things a lot easier.
I've tried to find cloth furniture covers that are waterproof, kind of like the covers that go on beds, but no luck :shrug:. You could try making one yourself with a waterproof liner if you're good with a sewing machine, but it would be expensive compared to the plastic and furniture cover suggestion. It would look nicer though.

We live in a high rise apartment with no balcony, so an outdoor enclosure is kinda impossible lol but if I can somehow convince my bf to move then we could actually build the outdoor enclosure, and Forest would be soo happy cuz he was an outdoor cat for 14 years.

Our furniture isn't anything really special but it is a place to put your bum, especially for guests. I started spraying the vinegar solution morning and night again and I think I will have to start putting down aluminum foil as well. That will be easier to remove for when company comes over.

And the other thing if I do manage to convince him to move and everything's a go, his sister will prolly bring Spaz (their mom's cat), but he's an outdoor cat, but I'm sure we could find a way to keep him inside or safe outside in a separate enclosure. So I dunno if Gizzy will ever be ok if there is another cat in the house, out of site most of the time, but sometime's seeing him play outside with Forest, kinda thing. And I have recently fallen in love with Ragdolls, so what would happen if I ever got one? Soo frustrating! But am so glad everyone here is so helpful!

catlover2
March 17th, 2010, 07:40 PM
Getting a Ragdoll? Are you :crazy: ? I have nothing against Ragdolls, as they are wonderful cats. But, I think that would just get Gizzy spraying even more than he does. I think he's just one of those sprayers that it doesn't take much to get him spraying and unless you rehome Gizzy and as I recall that wasn't an option you would consider.

As to moving to a house where you'd have a lot more space does sound like a better arrangement that the apartment you're in now. An outdoor enclosure probably would suit Gizzy, but you'd have to make more effort to pet him, etc. when he's not close to you in the house. Maybe reason your bf doesn't want to move is he would feel uncomfortable hearing any amorous sounds coming from the basement or want any to be heard down below from upstairs? :laughing: Just a guess! Turn up the music! :laughing:

dollface
March 17th, 2010, 10:48 PM
Have you not seen my sig? :laughing: It still needs to be edited but I think I want these cats because of their temperaments: Snowshoe, Munchkin, Ragdoll, and Ocicat :D

Rehoming will never be an option just because he sprays. What kind of pet owner would I be if I rehomed a problem cat in order to have a new problem free cat? Not gonna happen. :) I will just have to take every precaution I can to make sure Gizzy feels secure in his surroundings and prevent as much damage as I can, smell-wise. But for sure Gizzy would be really jealous around a Ragdoll, another laidback cat who is devoted to its owner. Hogging her attention all the time. I will just have to give Gizzy more loving than usual. I already kinda do that now though.

And you hit the nail on the head on the head catlover! I just suggested your idea of turning up the music and he just laughed and walked away. I am so desparate for this to happen that I just don't know how to convince him! :( Especially when the tranny in my car is starting to go. :(

catlover2
March 17th, 2010, 11:44 PM
dollface, you said: "What kind of pet owner would I be if I rehomed a problem cat in order to have a new problem free cat? Not gonna happen."

Sometimes, this kind of a solution works, particularly if Gizzy went into a home where he is the only cat and has lots of attention without having to share it with another cat. He may not spray in that situation. Occasionally rehoming a pet needs to be done when the pet's incorrigible behaviour is causing a rift between people, stress or illness (allergies) in the house. I know some people put their pets before a hubby or child, but I would not. Just my :2cents:

Maybe bf will surprise you and have a change of heart about moving. You never know. :)

dollface
March 18th, 2010, 08:00 AM
Ya I guess that's true. But he's my first cat and I don't think life would be the same without him if I gave him away :( I think I'd feel guilty every time I looked at the new cat.

I need a miracle for that to happen! So if everyone could project the thought of us moving would be really helpful! lol

dollface
March 19th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Just came across this type of cage with a cover on top, it would be perfect to house Gizzy in it when I can't watch him: 42"x48"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250599695461

But since I can't afford $50-100, do you think there is anything at a dollar store or walmart that I could makeshift something like this structure/layout?

MyBirdIsEvil
March 19th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Walmart sometimes has dog pens, but you would have to make a top cover and they're not any cheaper there.

I have one but you're too far for me to give it to you :frustrated:

You could probably find one used. A lot of people buy dog pens (without the top) and you could just use some fabric or a heavy tarp as the top.

You could build something similar out of wood and chicken wire if you feel industrious. Actually they sell plastic chicken "wire" at walmart for garden fences, so that may work and it's pretty cheap. I don't think cats could get through it. It's made of the same stuff plastic screen is and none of my cats can rip my plastic screens.

catlover2
March 20th, 2010, 07:44 PM
dollface, Here's a dog crate on kijiji http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-pets-accessories-BRAND-NEW-FACTORY-DIRECT-WIRE-DOG-CRATE-PLAY-PEN-4-SALE-W0QQAdIdZ191839734

or you could put an ad (free) on kijiji for one. Someone may have one they're not using.

Problem with ebay.com is shipping (item you were looking at was in Ohio and they wanted pickup only). Better to look on www. ebay.ca for one in Toronto area.

Good luck!

dollface
March 22nd, 2010, 01:26 PM
Thanks catlover2 & MyBirdIsEvil for the suggestions! :D Plastic chicken wire sounds like an idea, pretty durable! The only problem with making a pen/buying a crate is my bf thinks that both of them should be crated during the day so the other doesn't get jealous that one gets freedom and the other doesn't kinda thing. Even if there is a blanket covering the crate. :frustrated: I don't think that would be the case but maybe I'm wrong. On that link, I would prolly end up getting the playpen for $60 that way it is easier to put a litter box in, but since there is no door, I'd just have to lift the top for Gizzy to jump out when I can watch him.

So I came up with a new idea but have a few questions. My bf should be getting his new truck in the next week or so, so that means more hours=more overtime pay. So we should be able to buy what I have in mind. Instead of using their current beds, I buy Gizzy a new comfy bed from the Pet Store that way no one's scent is on it, put it in the bedroom and he can be separated in the bedroom during the day and at night. Now my question is, if I go this route, is there any chance he would spray anything in our bedroom? Sometimes we have clothes on the floor, cuz they get dropped/fall, or we just don't have any room to put it (another reason why we need to move, we are pretty much busting lol). So if separated, would he feel the need to spray the bedding, or his new bed, or whatever may be on the floor?

catlover2
March 23rd, 2010, 11:19 AM
Gizzy may or may not spray, but was Forest was in your bedroom before or not? If he wasn't it might work with a new cat bed. The only way would be to try it and see, and hope for the best. But I definitely wouldn't leave clothes around on the floor or chairs that he could mark. Too much of a temptation I think. Having Gizzy in the bedroom with you may give him extra esteem that he's getting special attention and not Forest. Might be the solution. Good luck, hope something works out for you.

dollface
March 23rd, 2010, 01:59 PM
Thanks catlover2!!

Neither one has been separated in the bedroom before, we keep the door closed unless we're in and out real quick. Lately, when I come home from school though, I will let Gizzy come in with me while I change into comfy clothes and close the door until I'm finished. And when he gets on the bed it is instant purring from him. So I think he already thinks he's getting special attention when I do that, so maybe I'm on the right path.

Prolly will pick up anything that might be a temptation for him, and there aren't any chairs in our bedroom either. I think I will have to either get a small scratching post or split the one we already have that way he will still have something to scratch and not use anything that is wood.

Forest LOVES the bedroom too b/c the big comfy bed is in there. Even the minute he walks into the room he is instant purr and drooling. His dominance behavior really irks me and I don't think he should get the bedroom as a reward for it, so I just hope when him and Gizzy are together under supervision, Forest doesn't lash out at Gizzy cuz he was in there all day/night and he wasn't sort of thing.

Do you think I'm on the right track or should Forest be the one to have the bedroom?

catlover2
March 23rd, 2010, 11:34 PM
Since Gizzy's the one who's wanting to spray, I'd try Gizzy in the bedroom, and give Forest some extra attention and/or treats when Gizzy isn't close enough to see or hear, otherwise he may be jealous. I think you'll just have to try this and see what happens.

dollface
March 24th, 2010, 06:59 AM
Thanks catlover2! You've been such a great help! Let's hope this works cuz I feel like I'm bugging everyone with this issue that has gone on for far too long lol

If the separating plan doesn't work I will try to find the supplies that MyBirdIsEvil suggested!

Hopefully my next update is good news :fingerscr

dollface
April 1st, 2010, 11:02 PM
Got my tax return in the mail yesterday, so I bought Gizzy's new bed, the EmeryCat Board for him to scratch and food bowls. Starting the separation tonight! :fingerscr this works!

dollface
April 2nd, 2010, 09:36 AM
First night was a success, I think! He used the litter box, ate his food, and played with the toy on the EmeryCat Board. I don't think he knows his bed is a bed though lol. He lays in it when I am petting him, and walks on it.

He is a highly suspicious cat that needs to smell everything, and I got him the Whisker City Rocker Cuddler Bed in Green, it's soo soft that I would use it as a bed! :laughing: I hid treats in the bed so he could eat and lay down but no such luck. Hopefully one day he'll have a :lightbulb: moment and figure it out :laughing:. A few meows throughout the night, prolly to be let out but I think he'll adapt :) :fingerscr

catlover2
April 2nd, 2010, 02:52 PM
Good news! I hope this is finally the solution to his spraying. :fingerscr:fingerscr:fingerscr

dollface
April 3rd, 2010, 03:13 PM
Yes me too! He's getting really meowy at night but I think it's a small price to pay over having to clean the furniture :fingerscr:fingerscr:fingerscr

dollface
April 5th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Last night, I believe, was meow free! :thumbs up !

Here is where my paranoia kicks in, when I let Gizzy out in the rest of the house, he automatically goes to to sniff Forest, and Forest takes full advantage and starts licking Gizzy. Should I let it continue and see what happens, or just stop it before it starts? Today, I psst'd at them to distract them from the sniffing, and then Forest starts meowing in Gizzy's direction and started to go near him, but I put a stop to that.

If my paranoia is right, I have no problem staying in the bedroom with Gizzy and away from Forest, that way he doesn't think he has to stay in the bedroom all day/night. He seems to love following me everywhere now and loves to sleep beside me.

Am I right to be paranoid or do they just miss each other?

catlover2
April 6th, 2010, 12:03 AM
Maybe it's your paranoia kicking in? Cats only sniff and lick each other if they really like each other, otherwise avoidance is the usual behaviour. It seems to me Forest misses Gizzy. I wouldn't pssst or interfere with their friendly actions to each other. You should be happy about it. That's my :2cents:

dollface
April 6th, 2010, 06:58 AM
Forest's licking is usually part of the dominance act. First he licks Gizzy's head, and then when Gizzy is relaxed, he beats the crap out of him. And when Gizzy can't run away cuz he's being pinned down, or he does get away and Forest chases him, and then later he sprays the furniture.

:confused:

catlover2
April 7th, 2010, 12:21 AM
OK I get the picture. But just wondering if Forest has "beaten the crap" out of Gizzy since he's been separated a lot from Forest?

dollface
April 7th, 2010, 01:59 PM
No he hasn't had the chance to cuz I keep psst'ing them to distract the thought away from him in the first place lol, just in case. Our bedroom is spray free and I'd like to keep it that way lol

dollface
May 1st, 2010, 09:25 AM
Just a lil update: everything has been going very well! Gizzy loves his new space and even when we let him out to socialize, he sits at the bedroom door to go back in lol. Or if I'm in there studying, he will meow until I let him in :laughing:

We almost had a set back last night though. BF gets hot at night so he had the bright idea to get a stand up fan! :rolleyes: Gizzy was terrified of it and wouldn't go near it unless I had a few treats for him (which he gulped down without chewing!:eek:). I was worried he wouldn't want to use his comfy green bed anymore, cuz the fan is near it. He didn't like the fan blowing in his face at all and wanted to run away everytime it came around. We turned off the rotating switch and moved it in the corner of the back of the room. So we let him be where he wanted to be and then we fell asleep. During the night, he must have gotten curious and made his way up on the bed a few times and the treats I left in his bed were gone so I think it's safe to say that he's over his fear of the big bad fan! :highfive: :goodvibes: :fingerscr

catlover2
May 1st, 2010, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the update, dollface.Well, that's funny :laughing: Most cats definitely don't like anything blowing in their face. You did the right thing with the fan. Glad to hear the arrangement you've got now with having Gizzy in the bedroom is working out. Sometimes you just have to keep trying different things, until you find the arrangement that works out well for all. :thumbs up Gr8 news!

dollface
May 1st, 2010, 01:38 PM
You're very welcome catlover2!! You have been a big part of this solution and I'm soo grateful you are here to share your insight and suggestions! Thank you soo much!! :D:D

If and when you venture into animal communication, I just know you will be successful and wish you all the best! :goodvibes: You will be a godsend to many people! :angel: :angel2:

catlover2
May 1st, 2010, 03:59 PM
You're very welcome. :o Thanks for the encouragement.:thankyou:

dollface
May 16th, 2010, 12:02 AM
Need some advice: Gizzy peed on the bed with us in it like 10 mins ago!

We went out with friends tonight, separated them as usual, they both had food and everything. I'm exhausted and freezing and all I want to do is go to bed in a warm bed, and Gizzy jumps up and pees on the bed! Went from the throw blanket, thru the comforter, my blanket, the bed sheet, and a bit got on the mattress. He is confined to the bathroom for the night cuz I don't understand why he peed. His litter box is fine and we just switched to Sweat Scoop last week, so I don't think that is a factor. Our friends have a cat and 2 dogs and when we got home and went to pet him he smelled me as normal as if I wasn't near any other animals. Could this be why he suddenly started to use our bed as his new litter box?? Does this mean I will have to start covering the bed with tin foil now too? Grrr :frustrated:

ETA: I heard him use his litter box last night while we were sleeping and when bf woke up he brought him out into the living room with him and when I woke up he used the litter box out there, so I think this was a one time thing, but I don't want him to pee on the bed again. So anything I have looked up on the internet suggests chronic inappropriate elimination. We have to go grocery shopping today and will need to separate them still, so do I confine him to the bathroom again, or put tin foil all over the bed, or take a chance that he will behave nicely?? If he pees again, I will pull my hair out! This was supposed to be a cheaper solution to the spraying issue. So if he pees again, he will probably have to go to the vet for tests to rule anything out and then put in a play pen.

If anyone has any insight as to why he had to pee on the bed, but use his litter box after being no where near the bed, please reply!!

catlover2
May 16th, 2010, 02:23 PM
Darn! :sorry: Gizzy's a sprayer, let's face it, and it doesn't take much of a trigger to set him off spraying. You might read my comment in thread "Rocky's spraying again". I think Gizzy's very much like Rocky.
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70191

I suspect it was the scent of your friend's cat and 2 dogs likely triggered it. Wash all the clothes you had on last night, even scrub your shoes, have a shower. Wash everything he peed on. Do you have a large piece of plastic that you can put under the throw blanket in case he does it again?

In future, just be sure if you visit anyone with cats or dogs, that you strip down, stash the clothes, clean shoes and wash your hands well or have a shower right after coming home. Sorry to hear Gizzy slipped up, but he was doing well for quite while, and hopefully he'll have forgotten about this incident and behave himself. :fingerscr

dollface
May 16th, 2010, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the reply catlover2!! But it was a big puddle of pee not spray. Does that matter?

We've seen these friends before and no inappropriate elimination ever happened but that was before we separated them. So you're prolly onto something. I can prolly use a garbage bag (or 2) to put under the throw blanket for a couple days, cuz that would be a big waste of tin foil. Forgot to mention, he had peed right by my leg. So that must be a sign for something...

So when we go for groceries today I will get some garbage bags and put them under the current throw blanket and hope for the best!

dollface
May 17th, 2010, 01:39 PM
Just got home from school, and I had made the bed quickly this morning cuz I was running late so I didn't have time to grab a couple garbage bags. He peed on the bed again on my side and now I'm hysterical.

I don't know what to do anymore, I thought I would never say this but maybe it's time to give him away :cry: I'm prolly a bad person for thinking that now. I don't want to but what else is there? I can't afford a play pen for him. He's a nice cat to cuddle with when he finally warms up to you but this is too much. I'm stressed out with school, got three tests to write and a project due all before Thursday.

If anyone has any advice to talk me out of this situation that would be greatly appreciated, if not i'm off to cry my life away.

catlover2
May 17th, 2010, 02:25 PM
Don't feel bad about thinking of rehoming him or sending him away to a sanctuary or somewhere, anyone with a bad sprayer has likely been driven to that point. You're not--repeat NOT--a bad person for thinking this way. This is a big problem with cats, especially males/neuters, for spraying or not peeing in the litter box, and the most common reason cats are euthanized. People just get to the point it's too stressful and unlivable.

Do you have a large size wire dog crate, or can you borrow one? Unfortunately, he will have to be confined to it until you can get through your school tests which are more important for you to do well in than worry about your cat. It won't hurt him to live in a crate for a while until you decide what to do. He may not like it much, but it's the best suggestion I can think of at the moment. Set it up with a cat bed/old towels/Tshirts for his bed and put in his litter pan, food and water.

dollface
May 17th, 2010, 02:50 PM
Thank you for the kind words catlover2! I'm really trying but the tears keep coming :(

We may have a little bit to buy a big dog crate if my bf's parents don't have a spare one. The mattress part is really upsetting me, you just can't clean a mattress, you have to replace it and it's only 2 years old. Now I'm gonna smell like cat pee every day :(

I've heard of cats peeing on the female's side of the bed when they know you're pregnant even before you do, but I'm pretty sure that is not the case here. He slept with us fine last night, I was even waking up periodically to make sure he was just sleeping and then today I go to school and come back to a disaster area. If he could just tell me what he was thinking, maybe I would know what to do to help him.

catlover2
May 17th, 2010, 04:00 PM
dollface, I have sent you a PM (Private Message).

14+kitties
May 17th, 2010, 06:45 PM
So through all of this I have not heard of Gizzy going to the vet to see if he is 100%. :shrug:
Have you considered adding another litter box? Not in the same area the other ones are in. Maybe across the room or in another room all together. I know it's a open concept condo so maybe one of the bathrooms? Do you clean them morning and night? Are they away from noisy appliances? Is Gizzy being ambushed by Forest when he tries using one?
It is also possible he is still able to smell his urine on your bed and therefore has decided it's fair game. You may need to wash all of your covers/blankets in lots of vinegar and rubbing alcohol. The mattress you can try renting a carpet cleaner with a furniture attachment and clean it very very well. You may have to sleep elsewhere for a night while it dries but it's worth a shot.
If none of this works then pm me. We can work on something. I just hate to think of him being given up for spraying. Although I am still not sure if it's spraying or peeing. :confused:

dollface
May 17th, 2010, 09:30 PM
So through all of this I have not heard of Gizzy going to the vet to see if he is 100%. :shrug:
Have you considered adding another litter box? Not in the same area the other ones are in. Maybe across the room or in another room all together. I know it's a open concept condo so maybe one of the bathrooms? Do you clean them morning and night? Are they away from noisy appliances? Is Gizzy being ambushed by Forest when he tries using one?
It is also possible he is still able to smell his urine on your bed and therefore has decided it's fair game. You may need to wash all of your covers/blankets in lots of vinegar and rubbing alcohol. The mattress you can try renting a carpet cleaner with a furniture attachment and clean it very very well. You may have to sleep elsewhere for a night while it dries but it's worth a shot.
If none of this works then pm me. We can work on something. I just hate to think of him being given up for spraying. Although I am still not sure if it's spraying or peeing. :confused:

It was the spraying issue, but now he is just peeing on my side of the bed. And I have no idea why.

I'm just soo upset right now, all trust I had with him is gone like that. I know deep down I don't want to lose the cat that has come to follow me around and always wanting to be with me. Fortunately, bf is more understanding and says he is staying, even though last time he said if he pees again he's gone...

Going to the vet is worth a shot but I think all we'll find out is it is behavioral and will prescribe pills to shove down his throat when that alone makes him mistrust us even more. I kinda avoid going to the vets now because they push dry food, and don't respect my concerns. What about Bach Flower Essences? I could try that. I am just baffled as to why he is suddenly reacting this way when I came home saturday night and he smelled the other pets. He's never reacted that way before, he would just rub all his scents on me to reclaim me, I guess.

When catlover2 suggested I separate them b/c of the dominace issue with Forest, Gizzy got the bedroom at night and during the day when we weren't home. In total we have 3 litter boxes, not cleaned meticulously but he has gone in when they were a lot dirtier. There are 2 litter boxes along the floor to ceiling windows in the main part of our condo, and his litter box in the master bath inside the bedroom. Only Gizzy uses it. Forest has never been in it or near it, and no way for him to be ambushed. Outside the bathroom, about 1.5-2 ft away is the laundry closet (stacked washer/dryer behind a door), they are never turned on when he is going to the bathroom, and they weren't on before we left Saturday night.

On Saturday when he basically peed on me it was near the foot of the bed, between my knees and feet area. Today when he peed on the bed, it was a few inches below my pillow, so where my chest would be.

We have a top loading washer so it is very hard to wash out comforter and throw blankets (the huge ones you get at fairs and ribfests), I have lots of vinegar but no rubbing alcohol. Do I wash them with vinegar and detergent or just vinegar or get some rubbing alcohol and run them with vinegar? How much for each? Would a steam cleaner work on the mattress?

We'll both be sleeping on a couch tonight, and he will be confined to the bathroom again, because I just can't trust him anywhere by himself unwatched. Hopefully we can get a crate by tomorrow.

catlover2
May 17th, 2010, 10:45 PM
I really think it's behaviour with Gizzy, but I did notice in a previous post that you changed his litter a week ago to Sweat Scoop. It could be the litter change has something to do with his peeing on the bed.

I had a funny thing happen recently with my cats---they both use one box which they've always preferred. I was using a clumping clay litter that was OK but a little dusty. My neighbour raved about World's Best (corn meal) cat litter and said her cat loved it and she did too as there was no dust. So I thought I'd give it a try. The cats accepted it without any fuss, though it did have a "corn" smell. I've been using it for almost a month but last week my girl used it OK but had no urge to cover up her pee clumps or poops. My boy was fine with it and covered up his stuff, but not hers. One day, she actually did her poop outside the box. Then I noticed she meowed and fussed a bit before going into the box. So decided to go back to the clumping clay litter. I cleaned the box thoroughly to get rid of any corn smell, and as soon as I put the clay litter in, she got in pooped and covered it up. No problemo! That was on the weekend and she's continuing to cover everything up. Have no idea what it was that she didn't like about the Worlds Best corn meal litter, maybe the smell? because it was lighter in weight and a bit coarser than the clay litter? Who knows? But she wasn't completely happy with it, and that was her way of telling me she didn't like it.

Soooo, if Gizzy was doing well on the litter you used before you switched to Sweat Scoop, go back to it and see what happens. I still think his peeing is behavioural, marking his territory and triggered by the strange cat & dog scents, but maybe going back to the old litter might help. Worth a try, as he was doing pretty well for a while. Hope it works. :fingerscr

dollface
May 18th, 2010, 08:56 AM
I had no idea that a cat would have a delayed reaction to something they don't like, I thought it would be more immediate. But good news regarding that, my bf doesn't like it cuz even tho it says it clumps, it doesn't do a good job and he basically has to empty all of it out. So should we wait until the bag is done? Forest seems to use it fine. We suspect he has arthritis so he never covers his business anymore.

Last night the bed was semi-dry, no smell so we put a garbage bag on underneath the sheets and Gizzy spent the night with Forest. I'm sure the spraying issue will be back, guess it's time to buy stocks in tin foil and go to costco and get some in bulk to cover the furniture...

Bf got screwed out of overtime money on his paycheck so that may be a factor contributing to my hysterics...

14+kitties
May 18th, 2010, 09:13 AM
Swheat Scoop does a marvelous job here for me with six cats in the house. The smell is a lot nicer than wet clay. :yuck: Did you do a gradual change over or all at once?
I wish you luck with Gizzy.

We have a top loading washer so it is very hard to wash out comforter and throw blankets (the huge ones you get at fairs and ribfests), I have lots of vinegar but no rubbing alcohol. Do I wash them with vinegar and detergent or just vinegar or get some rubbing alcohol and run them with vinegar? How much for each? Would a steam cleaner work on the mattress?

When I wash the blankets from the catuary I use approx 2 cups of vinegar and a bottle of rubbing alcohol (it's cheap) and the regular soap. If I still smell the urine (I do have a few sprayers out there) then I wash it again just using the vinegar and rubbing alcohol. Normally twice gets rid of the smell.
A steam cleaner works on furniture. Can't see why it wouldn't on a mattress. If I'm wrong I am sure I will be corrected. :)
If the blankets are that big then take them to a laundromat to wash them. They normally have oversized machines for use. I have a top loader too.

catlover2
May 18th, 2010, 12:13 PM
If he was doing well on the old litter, was there a reason you changed to Sweat Scoop? He was doing pretty well for a while until you came home with the cat & dog scents wasn't he? I would switch litter back tothe older stuff immediately instead of finishing the bag to see if there is a diff. Let Forest use up the Sweat Scoop. Also another litter pan in your room might possibly make a diff.

dollface
May 18th, 2010, 02:25 PM
Swheat Scoop does a marvelous job here for me with six cats in the house. The smell is a lot nicer than wet clay. :yuck: Did you do a gradual change over or all at once?
I wish you luck with Gizzy.

Thanks 14+! I think the bf just did all at once. I don't think he knows the proper protocol even after having a cat for 13 years :rolleyes: although he knows that a food change should be gradual.

catlover2: We had run out and bf went to pet valu on his way home from work instead of petsmart or wal-mart. We usually get exquisicat, i think. And I guess Pet Valu didn't have that so he picked up the Swheat Scoop. I thought it was great cuz you can flush it but he doesn't want to flush it so we are going to switch back cuz it doesn't last as long.

Ok so I just got home from school, Gizzy was with Forest all day and I checked for pee puddles but can't find any, so I guess that means he has no problem using the litter boxes out here but not in the master bath?? Or he has been holding it in all day. Your guess is as good as mine. Anything I should do now?

catlover2
May 18th, 2010, 04:51 PM
I dunno....keep your fingers crossed that he doesn't use the bed again? :fingerscr :fingerscr :thumbs up

dollface
May 19th, 2010, 06:44 PM
There wasn't any pee today, so he must be using the litter boxes out here.

At this point, I don't think I can trust him. And I don't even know when I will be able to trust him again. I don't look at him or go near him. Bf vacuumed when he got home and I was just unplugging the cord and Gizzy was hiding near the outlet and he hissed at me. That makes me even more PO'd. I feel like I'm at a dead end...

14+kitties
May 19th, 2010, 10:58 PM
Bf vacuumed when he got home and I was just unplugging the cord and Gizzy was hiding near the outlet and he hissed at me. That makes me even more PO'd. I feel like I'm at a dead end...

Then pm me. :shrug:

catlover2
May 20th, 2010, 09:08 AM
Gizzy probably hissed as he feels your anger and doesn't like the fact you're ignoring him by not looking at him or even going near him, so he's saying he's po too. Cats sense tension and anger and he doesn't connect the reason it's because of his spraying or peeing on the bed and he's upset with you. Are you making a fuss over him and petting him up when he is showing good behaviour being a good cat? Do try and put your bad feelings toward him away and not take it out on him. Bengals are sensitive cats, and you don't want him to start reacting negatively to you by swatting, biting or attacking. His hissing is a warning of his displeasure. Tell him you love him, you're sorry, pet him up, play with him and offer him some treats.

dollface
May 20th, 2010, 12:59 PM
When he was being a good cat, I would always call for him to come, and pet him. Now, I'm just soo mad that I don't pay attention to him. Would there be any other reason for him to pick MY stuff to pee on?

I'm bad for holding grudges so I'm thinking that cats will always have the upper hand in a situation like this, if they sense your grudge they can top it?

I can tell he wants some of my attention cuz he sees me playing with and petting Forest but then I get the hisses and it's just not a nice feeling. I am off tomorrow so I will use that time to re-bond with him, but I don't think I can let him near the bed again.

catlover2
May 20th, 2010, 03:41 PM
They say (whoever "they" are) that "dogs live in the moment". Cats do too, but also they do seem to hold grudges, and sometimes for a long time.

I remember an incident when my hubby inadvertently stepped on one of my girl's paws while going downstairs while she was coming up, and he yelled and swore at her as he almost tripped. After that one incident, she avoided him completely, even runnng out of the room if he came in. This went on for almost 13 years (and she lived to 17-1/2yrs.), and he would always make some kind of derogatory remark when she did that...like "stupid cat! what did I do?". I finally convinced him to pay attention to her and try and sweet talk her and pay her compliments. And you what? she started responding to him, talking to him, rubbing up against him, to the point that she became his lap cat within a short time. So I learned that if you do something to a cat like step on its tail or paw by accident, you have to apologize immediately. It's really amazing, because when you don't the cat thinks you hurt it on purpose, but seems to understand an apology (or maybe its the tone of voice?) and doesn't hold a grudge, but just forgets about the accident. At least, this has been my experience with cats.

Seems to me Gizzy is holding a grudge against you because Forest is getting attention, he's jealous and he's being shut out. Can he top it? Yes, he hissed at you and he can start peeing more places and up the ante by more hissing or worse. :evil: Then you'll have an even bigger problem with him than "marking" at times. I hope you can get in his "good books" soon. However, if your love for him has been replaced by hatred,:( perhaps a divorce would be better for all concerned and he should be rehomed. Maybe your'e not compatible--it happens. There's no point in keeping a pet where no one likes him, and he's miserable too---something to think about. Do you think he may be happier as an only cat for someone?

dollface
May 21st, 2010, 11:52 AM
WOW 13 years?! That's insane. But they do say "you can't beat a cat at a staring contest" so that sounds about right lol.

No more grudge with Gizzy. I have petted him and picked him up, just don't have any words to say to him at the moment.

I have thought at times he might be better to be somewhere where he is the only cat, but at the same time being uprooted doesn't seem like the best idea either.

So I am going to try everything in my financial power to try and find a solution before I have to think about rehoming him.

dollface
May 26th, 2010, 04:49 PM
Update: I was able to get a large dog crate this past weekend, and Gizzy seems to like it! He's using his litter box ok and I think he's missed his green bed. (I kept it in the bedroom so Forest wouldn't go near it until I could find a solution).

The only spraying has been on his bed, but it's his bed, so I don't care lol as long as it's not where I sit I'm happy! I'm not really sure when he did it though, cuz it was a faint smell, so I have no idea if it was done when he got the bedroom or if he only did it a little bit this weekend being in the crate and maybe Forest got too close while we were sleeping. :shrug:

Anyways, I got him used to the crate by giving him treats when he was in it and he gets 2/3 of his meals in there. It's about 28" wide x 48" long and maybe 30" tall. I covered the top and side of the crate with a blanket, and the other side is against the wall. The door gets covered at night with a different blanket so there are no staring contests while we sleep.

I think I might get him one of these just for some added height and away from his water bowl that he manages to spill everyday lol and his bed gets moved around quite a bit somehow (maybe due to re-spraying) :rolleyes: http://www.kittyhammocks.com/

The bf says he was dumb to spray his bed cuz now he's gonna smell like that all the time on his fur and then sit on our furniture and rub it off :rolleyes: I tried explaining to him that if he does it on his bed in his "home" I don't think he will be tempted to do it on our stuff, but he doesn't wanna listen. And I don't think he will leave any "transfer". But correct me if I am wrong. Boys! Grr.

catlover2
May 27th, 2010, 12:44 AM
Cats like to be clean and groom themselves often to remove odours. They don't like the smell of urine on their fur. Cat saliva has quality of removing odours. I remember even if my stud cat got a couple of drops of urine on his breeches (he was longhair), you could really smell it, but he would lick himself....odour gone....problem solved. The only time a cat slacks off on grooming is because it is sick or in pain, very old, extremely distressed, frightened or obese.

dollface
June 4th, 2010, 03:34 PM
PITA of the year award goes to....

Just thought I would upload a pic of Gizzy in his new home. Even in a cage he is a master mischief maker. :rolleyes: :frustrated:

catlover2
June 5th, 2010, 07:18 AM
Aaah...Gizzy looks very content on his beautiful plushy bed. See he's a paper shredder...."hey mom, gotta do something when you're not home!" Have you tried giving him a small size Kong toy, with a few treats in it before you and bf leave? That will keep him busy for while trying to get them out.

The important thing is....has this arrangement stopped his spraying when you are at home and he's out of his crate? :fingerscr :pray:

dollface
June 5th, 2010, 09:14 AM
Aaah...Gizzy looks very content on his beautiful plushy bed. See he's a paper shredder...."hey mom, gotta do something when you're not home!" Have you tried giving him a small size Kong toy, with a few treats in it before you and bf leave? That will keep him busy for while trying to get them out.

The important thing is....has this arrangement stopped his spraying when you are at home and he's out of his crate? :fingerscr :pray:

Thank god I bought one that was washable! Forest has been having some puking episodes lately and I was a little late in getting him to the kitchen so when I whirled him there he puked in a circle (most of it went in the kitchen) and went thru the bars of Gizzy's cage onto his bed. :yuck:

Anyways, the story of how the paper towels got shredded: Gizzy (aka PITA) spilt almost all the water in his bowl and a big puddle was formed on the carpet, so before I left for school I left some paper towels to sop it up and put the cleaner bottle on top so it would stay. Then I came home to the above mess shown. I did have a towel laying on the bottom of the pan for about 2 weeks but when I had to wash PITA's bed I decided to wash the towel too, and when I pulled it out it was all yellowish. So to answer your question about the spraying, I think he has stopped all spraying OUTSIDE of the crate, but spraying his bed 99% sure cuz it's "close" to forest, but why would he spray (or pee?) on the towel??

Also another question, ever since we got PITA he has always scratched the inside of the litter box, and I've read that it's because he doesn't like the litter on his feet, every brand of litter we've bought he does this so he must be a "dainty" cat lol. But since he's been in the cage, he still does it in his box and then when he gets out he scratches around his food bowls, his bed, and even the bars of the cage. I've heard of some cats scratching/pawing around their food bowls before eating but not after using the litter box. Do you know why this is?

And he also moves his bed no matter where I put it so I think I've just given up trying to keep it away from his litter box, cuz he keeps sliding it closer to it. :rolleyes: He must like being a stinky PITA.

I'll be on the lookout for a Kitty Kong toy for him.

14+kitties
June 5th, 2010, 10:42 AM
Y'know, your feelings for Gizzy are really showing. And it's not good.:(
No cat deserves to be called a pain in the ass four times in as many paragraphs. Tongue in cheek or not. The towel was most likely yellow because it was left in the bottom of the crate for two weeks. It may not be because he was spraying or peeing on it. If it had gotten damp or wet from his spilling his water then it would turn. He shredded the paper towel because the poor baby is bored. He needs some toys in there with him if he has to be in there constantly. I don't see any toys at all for him.
The offer has been made before.......... you know my pm. There's a space ready for him here.

dollface
June 5th, 2010, 01:45 PM
I don't say pain in the ass every time, just pita, like the bread, and it's not to be mean, really.

He has lots of toys, but the way he moves everything around I don't know where to put them, I don't want it to be too crowded to the point where he just won't move from the bed. I am in the process of trying to order a hammock for him so he has a high up place to sleep in case he spills water all over the pan. I am thinking of putting the scratching post I got him a couple months ago in there between the bed and the litter box, attached below.

I had smelled the towel inadvertedly and it smelled like pee/spray. The dragging things through the bars has only been happening the last few days. In the beginning, I put a blanket covering the top and side and another blanket for the doorway so he had privacy. But then he began dragging the corners of the blankets inside the cage, I don't even know why. So I took the blankets off so he would stop that and because the blankets were keeping the smell of the litter box contained in there so we needed to let it air out.

I'm attaching a few pix of the crate for help in determining space issues.

catlover2
June 5th, 2010, 05:25 PM
I can venture a guess as to why Gizzy scratches in a more excessive way perhaps more than most DSH/DLH at the inside of his box and around the outside of it on the floor near his dishes. This is an instinctive behavior with most wild cats to bury their uneaten kill or feces, whereas spraying is territorial marking. Being a part Bengal half of Gizzy's genes aren't very many generations removed from the Asian Leopard cat which is one of their ancestors, so maybe it's a little more "wild" behaviour he's showing.

As far as dragging the blankets in his cage, probably just something to do out of boredom. Since he likes rearranging his bed and other stuff, just let him do it, but I definitely wouldn't leave a wet towel in the cage bottom (for 2 weeks?). You might try him with different things to play with. e.g. cardboard egg carton so he doesn't get bored with the same "toys". This is going to be a challenge because Bengals are active, curious, busy cats, so he's inherited some of those traits. :cat:

14+kitties
June 5th, 2010, 10:57 PM
I have probably four or five cats that scratch the sides of the boxes instead of the litter to cover their stuff. I think it's amusing. Yes, they scratch a lot on the sides of the boxes. Oh well, they are kitties. Sometimes cats do things we mere mortals can't figure out. Maybe he is leaving the scent from the glands on his paws on the side of the box, therefore claiming the box as his, not Forests'.

Winston
June 5th, 2010, 11:15 PM
My boy Bomber has always banged his paws on the litter box and its like he hates his paws to be dirty...cant offer and better advice than everyone has given but just wanted to say good luck with Gizzy...:thumbs up

dollface
June 6th, 2010, 09:09 AM
I can venture a guess as to why Gizzy scratches in a more excessive way perhaps more than most DSH/DLH at the inside of his box and around the outside of it on the floor near his dishes. This is an instinctive behavior with most wild cats to bury their uneaten kill or feces, whereas spraying is territorial marking. Being a part Bengal half of Gizzy's genes aren't very many generations removed from the Asian Leopard cat which is one of their ancestors, so maybe it's a little more "wild" behaviour he's showing.

As far as dragging the blankets in his cage, probably just something to do out of boredom. Since he likes rearranging his bed and other stuff, just let him do it, but I definitely wouldn't leave a wet towel in the cage bottom (for 2 weeks?). You might try him with different things to play with. e.g. cardboard egg carton so he doesn't get bored with the same "toys". This is going to be a challenge because Bengals are active, curious, busy cats, so he's inherited some of those traits. :cat:

Interesting theory, makes total sense, and maybe because he is in an enclosed area he would think do to do that, cuz when he has free roam he never does it around his food or litter box, just the sides of the inside of the box.

I have probably four or five cats that scratch the sides of the boxes instead of the litter to cover their stuff. I think it's amusing. Yes, they scratch a lot on the sides of the boxes. Oh well, they are kitties. Sometimes cats do things we mere mortals can't figure out. Maybe he is leaving the scent from the glands on his paws on the side of the box, therefore claiming the box as his, not Forests'.

When he first started doing it, my bf thought he was playing in there and would tell him to stop :frustrated: and then I found out he just doesn't like it on his paws, sometimes he even scratches the roof :laughing: I think it's cute! If it was Gizzy trying to claim a box, Forest just doesn't care lol so his efforts are kinda futile. :laughing:

My boy Bomber has always banged his paws on the litter box and its like he hates his paws to be dirty...cant offer and better advice than everyone has given but just wanted to say good luck with Gizzy...:thumbs up

Ya that's what I thought concerning the box, showing his "dainty" side that he doesn't like his paws being dirty :laughing:

Anyways, just want to thank everyone for their advice, it really does help! :cat:

Gizzy will be 3 tomorrow! :party: The first time I have been home to be able to do something for him, but I don't know what.

dollface
June 27th, 2010, 07:10 PM
Just a lil update: Everything is going well here. Gizzy never fights when it's time to go in his crate. He keeps re-spraying his bed and guess who gets mad lol the bf only cuz he doesn't understand. It kind of makes the house stink and today my bf sprayed Febreeze on his bed so while we went to the mall, we came back to a stinky environment. So his bed is in the wash again even though it's just gonna happen again. :rolleyes: I have no problem with him doing it except for the smell it makes when it's fresh. The crate isn't covered anymore because it trapped in the smell of the litter box, so I doubt that will solve anything if we covered the crate back up.

I guess my only concern is when we move to a house, I had the vision of him having his own room, either in the basement or an enclosed space outside. I don't think it's fair for him to be in a crate for the rest of his life. Might be best to leave that topic until we cross that bridge.

If anyone has any comments please do not hesitate :)

DF

laceyf53
June 28th, 2010, 01:47 AM
Some male cats, fixed or not, just spray. I cannot emphasize enough the success I have had with the Feliway diffuser. I used to buy them by the crate and it cost 10 dollars a bottle (I used to have 2 girls that didn't get along) per month which I don't think is too bad. If you haven't tried it, please do. I have heard way more success stories than I have failures, and if it helps it may get your guy out of the crate for good. Another thing you can do is build an outdoor enclosure. My enclosure is 14 feet high, 15 feet long, and 8 feet wide. It of course does not have to be this large, but it will give your cat options other than hanging out in a crate all day. I would also replace the crate with an actual cat cage, they are usually built around 5 to 6 feet tall and are better for the cats mental health than a crate it. This way you can switch his scenery around, put more toys in there, and keep him happier. Also, you can have supervised outings. My stud cat gets a romp in the house with the others 2 times a day for about an hour, I just watch him the whole time to make sure no accidents happen. He goes in the cat cage in our room to sleep at night and in the outdoor enclosure during the day. You could do something similar so that he is included all the time and not so frustrated. If you want help or advice with the enclosure, I can help. :)

dollface
June 28th, 2010, 09:24 AM
Thanks laceyf53! We live in a high rise apartment right now so building anything outside won't be happening til we move to a house and I will for sure hit you up for advice when that time comes! :)

I've never tried Feliway, have only tried the sprays that were cheaper than feliway. They worked for when we took them to the vet in their carriers (forest used to pee thru the door as soon as we put him in there lol). Does it matter if the plug isn't anywhere near the crate? We have 2 open plugs; one is behind a couch and the other is under the dining room table, both which are across the room.

I have heard you have to wait a month for it to start working, so I'd need 2 right off the bat and that might be expensive. What if I got a spray type and used it on his bed right after being out of the wash? Or would the plug-in be better?

dollface
June 28th, 2010, 05:57 PM
Is there anything I can spray on his bed so that he won't spray it so heavily? Catnip spray? No mark spray? Equal parts of water and vinegar spray?

catlover2
June 29th, 2010, 12:36 AM
Sorry to hear Gizzy's still spraying....unfortunately, I think he's an incorrigible sprayer and feels the need to keep marking, and it's become a ingrained habit with him. I think I would get a bunch of cheap towels, fold them so they're thick and pin them on his bed, to make it easier for you to manage, rather than having to wash his bed. Are you using scented laundry detergent and/or dryer sheets? It's possible he doesn't like the scent, so I would wash the towels in unscented detergent.
I do hope you will soon be able to move into a house to have some sort of outdoor enclosure for him.

dollface
June 29th, 2010, 11:25 AM
I know what set him off, his spraying is ok as long as he does it on his own bed but it just makes the place stink. And cuz my bf had sprayed it with febreeze, I just knew he would spray it again but had NO idea it would be so heavily. I had to wash it twice with Tide Cold water and it still stinks but not as bad so hopefully if he still smells it then he won't feel the need to re-spray soo heavily. The part where he lays you can't smell as bad but the bottom where it sits on the crate it stinks so it really went through. Prolly gonna hose down the tray part this week and give it a good scrub.

You and me both catlover2!! As soon as I get hired after finishing school, I'm gonna rebuild my credit and put everything away for a big down payment so I can move ASAP! :fingerscr

dollface
June 30th, 2010, 08:03 AM
So I spoke too soon, he re-sprayed his bed and i'm sure I will come home to a stinky house. My bf is saying he already wants to throw up because of it :( So gotta find a way to keep him from smelling up the house or the unthinkable happens :( or my bf's stupid suggestion of no bed or no scratching post. So all he will have is a litter box and food and I believe that will cause more problems than anything...

laceyf53
June 30th, 2010, 01:17 PM
Thanks laceyf53! We live in a high rise apartment right now so building anything outside won't be happening til we move to a house and I will for sure hit you up for advice when that time comes! :)

I've never tried Feliway, have only tried the sprays that were cheaper than feliway. They worked for when we took them to the vet in their carriers (forest used to pee thru the door as soon as we put him in there lol). Does it matter if the plug isn't anywhere near the crate? We have 2 open plugs; one is behind a couch and the other is under the dining room table, both which are across the room.

I have heard you have to wait a month for it to start working, so I'd need 2 right off the bat and that might be expensive. What if I got a spray type and used it on his bed right after being out of the wash? Or would the plug-in be better?

I had the plug in which you can find on E-bay or craigslist usually, and i did have 2 because the area that my cats roam is more than 1,000 square feet. Each plug in covers an area of about 500 square feet. I have never used the spray, but I figure they probably work about the same.

Where did you get this kittie from? It sounds better for all involved that he goes to a single cat owner, so that he doesn't feel so stressed out. Some cats are very sensitive to their people and this problem isn't going to stop when your boyfriend hates him. If you start searching now you can find someone before you are forced by your boyfriend to take the cat to the shelter.

dollface
June 30th, 2010, 02:58 PM
I had the plug in which you can find on E-bay or craigslist usually, and i did have 2 because the area that my cats roam is more than 1,000 square feet. Each plug in covers an area of about 500 square feet. I have never used the spray, but I figure they probably work about the same.

Where did you get this kittie from? It sounds better for all involved that he goes to a single cat owner, so that he doesn't feel so stressed out. Some cats are very sensitive to their people and this problem isn't going to stop when your boyfriend hates him. If you start searching now you can find someone before you are forced by your boyfriend to take the cat to the shelter.

Ok I'll get my bf to order 2 and a couple sprays cuz I really don't think it would be good for Gizzy if we uproot him. He is a very skittish cat.

When we first moved in (in 2008) to the place we live now, my bf brought his cat Forest (16 years old this year) with us. And since I was on my own away from my parents who didn't want any pets, I wanted my own lil ball of fur. So I searched on kijiji (mistake #1), I was originally looking for a Bengal. Then I saw how much a purebred with papers was and looked at the lower prices meaning no papers. Then I found an ad on kijiji that had a Bengal kitten for sale for $250 but by the time I got a response back they said the kitten was gone but they had one left that was 8 months. So I asked to see pictures, they weren't very clear but I agreed to see him in person anyways.

Here's the fishy part: The lady said they lived in Kitchener but said we could meet in at the Walmart in Orangeville. We live in the North End of Etobicoke. (:confused:)

So after work that day we went up to meet them and met Gizzy in the parking lot. I couldn't tell if anything was wrong with him just a little scared from being outside and being held by strangers. So we took him home. He came with a "guarantee/waranty" that stated if my vet found him to be ill we could return him, cuz he went to the vet before meeting us. When we took him to the vet he had tapeworms, and that was an indication of him being outside. When I asked her about it she said they took him for walks and therefore he chased everything that moved.

It took him several weeks to settle in, hid anytime we came near him, and he just warmed up to my bf like a year ago. He is just starting to realize that he likes to be near me all the time, lay next to wherever I am sitting and sometimes sits on my lap. And the other day he sat on my bf's chest. He usually doesn't like new ppl, but b/c he was in the crate on friday when I came home and had a friend with me he let her rub his cheek and chin through the bars. He has made a lot of progress in the last year, and as much as I don't want to give him away, being an only cat may be the best thing he needs or a place to spray to his content.

Anyways, my lesson is learned concerning kijiji pet ads. Next time I want a purebred, I will go to a breeder, but I think the next few will be from TCR/Petfinder.

This is the pic I took of Gizzy sitting on my bf's chest. He stayed there only for a minute but long enough for a picture!

catlover2
July 1st, 2010, 03:26 PM
Aww, nice pic----handsome bf and handsome cat! :thumbs up

I agree with laceyf53 when she says "this problem isn't going to stop when your bf hates him."
Try and convince your bf to talk nice nice to Gizzy and pet him up, give him treats. Cats are very sensitive to negative feelings/words/tone of voice, and know when someone is mad, frustrated or annoyed with them, and Gizzy seems to be especially sensitive. Hope with some more positive thoughts and actions, Gizzy will stop spraying his bed.
I think I mentioned that one of my cats refused to cover up her business after I changed to "Swheat Scoop" litter from clumping clay litter. Even after I switched back to the clumping clay litter, she continued not covering up for about 3 weeks. Last week I had a "talk" with her and told her I wasn't too happy that she was leaving it to me to cover her business and asked her to cover it up like she used to----besides saying the words to her, visualized the scenario in my mind. Guess what, a few days after that she started covering up and has been good, except for one time. I complimented her on her good behaviour if I saw her doing it. So progress is always possible---just visualize to Gizzy what you want him to do, and hope bf can do the same. Maybe Gizzy will turn out not to be an incorrigible sprayer after all.

dollface
July 1st, 2010, 07:42 PM
Thanks catlover2! I think he's pretty cute, both are lol he's actually trying very hard not to laugh just so Gizzy would stay there :)

I actually had a "talk" with Gizzy when I came home on Wednesday, saying how I would like him to stop spraying his bed, and how forest will NEVER get anywhere near his bed/litter box and how I don't want to give him away. And not to listen when Daddy yells cuz he doesn't understand Gizzy's behaviour lol. But thank you for reminding me to visualize it also! They teach us Pacific Institute at school which is visualizing what you want to achieve in life, so I will definately do this :). How 'bout everyone visualize with me lol Here's hoping only positive updates from now on :fingerscr!

dollface
July 11th, 2010, 10:51 AM
So for about a week, we started covering the crate back up and we kept saying "Gizzy is not a sprayer anymore" and "Gizzy will not spray" and it worked for about a week. Last night we had a wedding to go to so we weren't home from 12pm to 12:30am, so being stuck in the crate all day, Gizzy thinks it is fun to pull the blankets through the bars therefore resulting in the blanket exposing himself to Forest and therefore he sprayed again. :| And when we pick him up he stinks like spray.

I know it's a lil early, but when we move to a house what would be the best way to let him live? Outdoor enclosure? Outdoor Shed?

catlover2
July 12th, 2010, 10:57 AM
This seems to be a pattern with Gizzy, if you're out for a fair amount of time that he gets anxious and sprays.

As far as a house, there are all kinds of outdoor enclosure one could use. Some even attach to windows. I think I would wait and see how he behaves. Just being in a bigger space with more rooms may solve his spraying problem. Certainly hope so, as I think you've tried everything.

dollface
July 12th, 2010, 11:50 AM
Sounds like long absences make him bored and then he tugs at the blanket making it fall and then he sees Forest so he kinda does it to himself too, huh?

He will definately have his own room, that I know for sure. Am I selfish for still wanting more cats? Hopefully if they are introduced properly, maybe he can adjust better...

catlover2
July 13th, 2010, 01:21 PM
Are you selfish? I would say that, but I wouldn't get ahead of yourself. Take it slowly. Better to get Gizzy well adjusted to his new home before introducing another cat. But knowing his record, it could just trigger his urge to spray.

dollface
July 19th, 2010, 10:03 PM
Oh ya for sure. I know how moving can take a toll on cats and cause them stress. I will take it slowly and just wait for what life hands me when we cross that bridge :) thanks!

dollface
July 26th, 2010, 01:02 PM
Just a lil update, kind of concerned:

Ok so we covered the crate back up with blankets, right? And Gizzy sometimes pulls the blanket into the crate for whatever reason he does. And I guess when I come home and I pull that out first instead of saying "hi" he hisses at me. Cats hiss when they are scared, so does he think my hand is someone else's hand? Or can there be a medical reason for him to hiss other than being scared/startled?

And if anyone has been hoping that we move to a bigger place soon, I thank you a lot! There is a chance that we may be moving!! My bf's grandmother fell at her house and later they found that she couldn't stand so she ended up going to the hospital and she broke her tibia and they found a heart murmur. So it turns out one of his uncles had a reservation for her at a home for about a month now and I guess this is the catalyst he was waiting for. :( So she'll be going to the home on wednesday, and there apparently isn't any rush to sell her house. So hopefully my bf's cousins won't want to live there and possibly we can live there instead. :fingerscr It's bittersweet and I am bracing myself for the ramifications of her reaction when she realizes she will never see her home again :(

However, IF we move there, we will still be renting and until I own a house, I feel it will still be best to crate Gizzy in order to minimize the risk of spraying especially in a house that is my bf's grandmothers whereas if it were my grandmother.

Now off to educate myself on dogs on this forum, because I am off for a week lol this move would prolly allow my bf to finally get his husky and that means getting HIM out to walk and exercise and get healthy! lol

catlover2
July 26th, 2010, 04:25 PM
So why don't you speak with Gizzy first and then let him out of his crate? and while he's out, then take out the blanket. Don't know why he's hissing---want my blankie in the crate with me? you don't say hi or speak to me? bored, and have to do something......who knows, but it doesn't seem as if he's startled, maybe more like mad or upset you're taking out the blanket after he spent a lot of time pulling it in there. Maybe he wants to see out? or wants to lie on it bunchedup (my cats like to do that). Does he pee on it? IMO I don't think there's a medical reason Gizzy is hissing. Most cats hiss because they are scared, startled or annoyed.

Am sure you'll find lots of advice on the forum re dogs, or Huskies in particular.

Sorry to hear about your bf's grandmother, hope she'll make a good recovery. As for her house, remember that saying "don't count your chickens before they hatch". Who knows what will happen there?

dollface
July 26th, 2010, 09:26 PM
I usually speak to him as soon as I set my school bag down, but I see the blanket pulled in first and just go to pull it back out so he doesn't see Forest and therefore set him off again. The hissing seems new, as with him wanting to climb all over me and even plopping himself on my chest in between my laptop, it has been very nice for him to want to help keep my lap warm :lovestruck:! When he hisses I ask him in a nice voice why he is hissing and then he meows back as if he wants out, or can't get out fast enough. Other times he has hissed after being put in the crate at night time. Maybe he's getting tired of being put in there all the time, I dunno. Thanks for thinking of reasons tho :)

Ya we're just hoping right now, nothing is set in stone, but it can't hurt to visualize either...

dollface
August 22nd, 2010, 09:02 PM
I hate to be a pain but I feel like we're at the end of our rope with Gizzy. :(

We came home today to a smell that couldn't be ignored. We decided to clean the floor of the cage, but upon taking everything out of the cage to be able to pull it out, we came acorss his urine-soaked bed. So needless to say, that bed has gone down the garbage chute because I just don't know how to clean something that is covered in hair, litter and urine.

So as of tonight, he has no bed to sleep in. But he hasn't really slept in it for quite awhile now.

We are going to take him to the vet to rule out any illnesses before deciding whether to surrender him or not. If that happens, I don't think I will be getting another cat until Forest passes as to not stress him out and b/c my bf thinks cats don't need to be introduced which I do not have the energy to explain to him that they do...

catlover2
August 22nd, 2010, 11:49 PM
I guess what I'm not clear on is how much time is Gizzy in the crate? Do you put Forest in another room and let Gizzy have livingroom to run around to burn off some energy in exercise? Do you play actively with him, using something like a teaser toy? Give him lots of loving? I know when he sees Forest he's stimulated to spray, and I know in your small apartment there isn't much room for juggling cats in the kind of situation you've got. Hissing a lot as you reported Gizzy doing in your previous posts in July is always a sign of unhappiness, annoyance or frustration. It will be a difficult decision to make whether to surrender him or not that's for sure. I don't envy the position you're in, but I'm sure you and your bf will come to a decision that will be the best for Forest, Gizzy and yourselves. All the best!

dollface
August 23rd, 2010, 06:56 AM
From about 2pm - 10pm during the week, he is out of the crate. Forest doesn't go anywhere. Forest has hairball problems so we have to watch him to make sure he doesn't vomit on the carpet. On weekends he comes out when we get up and if we go out then he goes back in, or if we stay home he stays out of the crate, unless it's meal time and he eats his food in the crate which he has trained us to do.

When the hissing started, a few days after he hide in his litter box whenever it's time for him to go in his crate. I don't know why he needs to hide inside his crate, I'm never angry or mad at him when it's crate time :(.

Gizzy gets a lot of pets when he comes out of the crate. He runs into my hand when he's out and if I take it away too quickly he will do a lil bite or swat at me, then when he's had enough head butting my hand he will walk all over my lap and finally snuggle up against me or half on my lap. I play when I can with him, but he's usually zooming around the room to even care about the toys I have for him to play with.

I hope the vet can help but also not be too difficult on the food issue.

Thanks catlover2!

catlover2
August 23rd, 2010, 01:38 PM
Gizzy sounds like he's getting enough time outside his crate for exercise to really stretch his legs and give his muscles a workout and gets lots of attention. Maybe a special treat (something he really likes, piece of cheese or chicken) when he has to go in his crate would change his behaviour from hiding or hissing and make him happier about going in. His "bed" can be old (or cheap) towels or baby blanket, so that if soiled they can be washed easily.

As for Forest's hair ball problem, one way to eliminate that is to run the comb through his coat twice a day---sounds like a lot of grooming, but it isn't really and only takes a couple of minutes. Older cats often start to neglect their grooming, and most really appreciate having it done for them and not having to lick up and swallow all that fur.

I realize that this crate setup isn't ideal for an active Bengal mix, but does control and limit his spraying in your apartment to make it more livable for you and your bf. Hope everthing turns out well at the vets.

Don't know what you mean by vet "not be too difficult on the food issue." ??

14+kitties
August 23rd, 2010, 01:44 PM
I hope you realize if you chose to surrender Gizzy at this point he will most likely be pts. Not many people want to take on a cat who sprays. I wish you would have taken me up on my offer months ago when I had a spot for him. :(
I will keep my fingers crossed for Gizzy. I am almost hoping the vet finds something wrong with him to justify the spraying. :fingerscr

dollface
August 23rd, 2010, 02:35 PM
Don't know what you mean by vet "not be too difficult on the food issue." ??

The vet we go to (and pretty much any vet around us) thinks dry food is what a cat should be eating. Especially for senior cats. :mad:

I will keep my fingers crossed for Gizzy. I am almost hoping the vet finds something wrong with him to justify the spraying. :fingerscr

That's what I'm hoping as well! Cuz I really don't want him to be pts either. And who knows how he will be around a strange family even if he is the only cat. :(

Why must everything go wrong when you don't have the money to fix anything? :yell: Soo depressed right now.

catlover2
August 28th, 2010, 11:06 AM
Oh dear....any news? You've been in my thoughts and prayers. :pray: Hope everything works out for the best, whatever that may be for you all. :goodvibes: :thumbs up

dollface
August 31st, 2010, 08:41 AM
Thanks catlover2! You're an :angel:! Matt (my bf) isn't mad anymore at Gizzy so I think the thought of giving him away is subsiding! It also helps that Gizzy is warming up to him each and every day! He climbs all over his lap, up his chest, head butts his hand and demands to be scratched and pet.

There is still the issue of him hissing whenever we are fixing the blanket on the crate but we just have to ignore it and speak baby/kitty talk to him to let him know there is nothing to be scared of.

And I bought Forest a Kitty Kong Zoom Groom and he LOVES it! He even knows when it's time to brush the other side! Hopefully this helps with his hairball problem :fingerscr !

catlover2
August 31st, 2010, 12:17 PM
Happy to hear Gizzy is happier and things are improving, especially between your bf's attitude and Gizzy. :thumbs up Glad to hear bf is happier and more positive with Gizzy who's certainly responding to him in an affectionate way and showing how much he appreciates the change. This sounds like one of my spays I had many years ago who held a grudge against my hubby for accidentally stepping on her. He never apologized to her for it, and she avoided him from then on and hubby ignored her and never talked nice to her. Finally I convinced him to try sweet-talking her after about 12 yrs! And she responded very much like Gizzy did quite quickly and ended up being his lap cat! So cat's can change if treated and talked to with respect and love. Hope everthing continues to get better from here on.

The Zoom Groom sounds like a fabulous grooming tool, I've seen them but first time I've heard how cats like them. Certainly sounds better than a wire slicker brush as the rubber teeth probably give a nice massage. My Devon Rexes shed very very little, but I occasionally run a comb through my girl's coat as it's a little thicker than my boy's.

dollface
September 1st, 2010, 03:38 PM
Yes a cat is the worst animal to hold a grudge with because they can always pick up what you're feeling and take it up 1 notch lol and make you feel even worse!

Gizzy likes the Zoom Groom too! He usually doesn't like anything because of his skittish behavior, but when this comes out he just lays down on the spot! :laughing:

So there may be bumps in the road with this whole crate thing but I'm glad I have you guys to vent to and the wonderful suggestions that keep coming! :)

catlover2
September 2nd, 2010, 03:20 PM
That's great to hear the improvement and we're always happy to help and and try and solve any problems, and we all learn from each other especially when you update so well to tell us what works and what doesn't. Great! I'm thinking that this thread has now become too long to read through from the beginning? If other questions arise, perhaps it would be better to start a new thread? All the best! now, Gizzy, you be a good boy! :pray: :) :thumbs up

dollface
September 2nd, 2010, 06:39 PM
Agreed! See you in a new thread upon next update! :)

14+kitties
September 3rd, 2010, 12:02 AM
I'm thinking that this thread has now become too long to read through from the beginning? If other questions arise, perhaps it would be better to start a new thread? All the best! now, Gizzy, you be a good boy! :pray: :) :thumbs up

Really? Too large? There are other threads that are larger and people read them. Look at growler's CRF thread. Considering at this point it is basically three people, most of the time only two, I would think this thread is fine to keep going. That way all the info is in one place instead of looking all over to see what happens to Gizzy. JMO :shrug:

catlover2
September 3rd, 2010, 02:58 PM
So, who's supposed to end a thread? Is it the Moderator or the OP? :shrug: I find a post as long as Growler's on CRF is too long to read all the posts, especially if I'm looking for a quick answer or don't have much time to spend on the forum. Just my :2cents:

dollface
October 8th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Just a quick Q: Per my "Found a cat" thread @ http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72963: what would the repercussions be if I were to shelter the cat in a crate in my bedroom, doors closed? Forrest meows all day everyday, so I don't know if that would upset the new cat at all or if Gizzy would sense anything amiss?? Or does this have bad idea written all over it? I don't want another cat, I just don't want to see this cat suffer the cold winter. :( But at least someone is feeding him something...

So this is what it feels like to be between a rock and a hard place :(

mikischo
October 8th, 2010, 01:15 PM
It is really quite impossible to predict what kind of reactions there would be. The fact that he would be crated would mean you could keep him as far away from the bedroom door as possible but I'm sure they would still sense that he was there even if he was quiet.

Do your other cats normally go in the bedroom?

catlover2
October 8th, 2010, 01:36 PM
You said yourself "I just don't want another cat", so why are you considering it? Yes, it would upset Gizzy & Forest to have an unneutered cat in your apt. Even if they couldn't see him, they could smell him. Yes, it has "bad idea written all over it". I know it's hard to see a cat suffer by being homeless, but I strongly recommend that you find a relative, friend that would be willing to foster, or contact some resuce groups outside of Toronto. I wouldn't jeopardize what gains you've made in Gizzy & Forest's relationship by doing this...you've worked too hard to have achieved some level of harmony and tranquility in your home.

mikischo
October 8th, 2010, 01:41 PM
I just read what Catlover2 posted on the other thread and she is absolutely 100% correct.

Given the issues you have had with your boys and the gains you have made in resolving them it is definitely not worth the risk of jeopardizing everything that has been accomplished. Hopefully someone else will be able to take this boy in.

dollface
October 8th, 2010, 07:54 PM
I don't want to keep him, I just don't want him to die from the cold. If I had a bigger house I could keep him and do proper introductions but that's not happening right now. He looks like he is fixed tho cuz his "things" look like Gizzy's does only a teeny bit smaller, but then again who knows.

If ppl didn't steal I could buy a cat igloo and put it there for him... :(

Winston
October 8th, 2010, 08:16 PM
Dollface if yon check the threads here or even contact 14+ I am pretty sure she has some information on how to make a cozy house for a kitty from rubbermaid containers, styrofoam & hay I think?

I agree with the others...you have too much work into the 2 you have now and I think you would be risking some real set backs.

Good luck

Cindy

Love4himies
October 8th, 2010, 08:20 PM
It is really quite impossible to predict what kind of reactions there would be. The fact that he would be crated would mean you could keep him as far away from the bedroom door as possible but I'm sure they would still sense that he was there even if he was quiet.

Do your other cats normally go in the bedroom?

You are right, there is no way to predict, but I can guarantee you 100% they will know there is a cat in the bedroom.

My Jasper can smell an unnuetered cat from inside the house with all the windows closed and I have a very airtight house.

dollface
October 9th, 2010, 10:20 AM
Ok thanks everyone! Not gonna take him in at all, but just want to try to build him a house/someplace warm to sleep. If I brought a can of food and left it there for him, opened, will only cats eat wet food, or will any animal just take it too? If that's the case, I would have to give it to him when he's there, right? There is a vet close by, should I take him to get checked out or something?

catlover2
October 9th, 2010, 06:26 PM
I'm glad you made the decision not to take him. Of course, it would be better if someone could take him and get him off the streets. If that's not possible, having him checked out at the vet and get him shots and neutered if he's not would be the next best thing. Thank you for thinking thinking to have him seen by a vet for a checkup, shots, worming, etc. that would be wonderful.
There are a lot of racoons in Toronto and yes they love cat food. As well as there are other stray homeless cats likely around as well. You can't guarantee that only this boy will get the food, if that's your intention. Cats are creatures of habit and routine and if you always went or someone did at the same time each day to feed, I'm sure he would be there waiting for food and probably some of his friends too. A waterproof box with shredded newspaper would give some insulation and warmth.