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Just Kicked Archeologists off our Land

Bailey_
November 5th, 2009, 01:27 PM
I just got back from feeding the horses on our 180 acre land outside of the city, and found a group of 'archeologists' digging HUGE holes in our land (which is frequented by our grazing herd...holes & horses do NOT mix) and was so upset by the mess, huge piles of dirt, random gates they left open, and 2x4feet deep holes that I kicked them off.

The main guy kept apologizing, saying that they had permission to be there, and someone should've contacted us; which obviously noone had at all.

I was so doubtful that they were supposed to be there, that I told them to get off and they instantly complied. Which leads me to believe that they really were not supposed to be there because if they were, wouldn't they have just referred me to their superiors and said, "uh, sorry, we have to do this, call them" ?

Anyway, they've apparently been there since yesterday, and are now packing up, refilling the holes and leaving.

I'm all for ancient history and now I feel a bit bad having to kick them off, but mostly I'm just really upset about the situation. When I first arrived I spent 15 minutes trying to find our horses because they left gates open, I was sure they had been stolen. By the time I found the group, I was so outraged, I wasn't exactly "conversational".

UGH. Just had to vent. 0:frustrated:

ancientgirl
November 5th, 2009, 01:31 PM
I'm all for ancient history and now I feel a bit bad having to kick them off, but mostly I'm just really upset about the situation. When I first arrived I spent 15 minutes trying to find our horses because they left gates open, I was sure they had been stolen. By the time I found the group, I was so outraged, I wasn't exactly "conversational".

UGH. Just had to vent. 0:frustrated:

I'm a big ancient history buff, but I sooooo do not blame you for being angry.

Your horses could have gotten hurt because of these people's stupidity. Thank goodness you went there! Can you imagine if you'd waited a week or something?

Bailey_
November 5th, 2009, 01:37 PM
I'm a big ancient history buff, but I sooooo do not blame you for being angry.

Your horses could have gotten hurt because of these people's stupidity. Thank goodness you went there! Can you imagine if you'd waited a week or something?

OMG, that would've been terrible!! My fatherinlaw usually feeds, but he's working on a movie set right now up in Fortress Mtn, and it's SUCH a good thing he did not find them. :laughing:

When I saw those holes though, holy macaroni, I almost flipped my lid.

I'm just so curious why no one contacted us! I mean, if they had wanted to do this, we have so much land that I'm sure we could've figured something out. We're not unreasonable people, and I love history. But when you come up there and find all this crap and people there that are not supposed to be - :yell: it was so bad!

ancientgirl
November 5th, 2009, 01:42 PM
They probably figured nobody would be around, or that it was public land or something. You have no trespassing signs up?

hazelrunpack
November 5th, 2009, 02:01 PM
Oh, I would have been absolutely livid!! Do you know who they work for? Govt agency? University? Historical society of some sort? I'd be complaining to high heaven and if they were caught again, the sheriff would be called. I don't care what they think is there, if they endangered my animals, there would be hell to pay. :mad: You can damn betchya that if any of your horses had been hurt (either on your property or after they'd escaped through an open gate) and the 'archeologists' had left before you discovered it, you'd have had no help with vet bills. :frustrated:

May I ask why, if you've not been contacted, you thought that there was a possibility that they did have permission to be there? :confused: I'm not sure if the laws are different there or not, but here, even for artifacts, they have to have permission from the owner to be there or it's trespassing, pure and simple.

Bailey_
November 5th, 2009, 02:20 PM
No, we don't have tresspassing signs up, though with as much land as we have - we HAVE had issues in the past and should put some up. Not with archeologists, just with pple coming on our land. Never to the extent where our animals were endangered however.

Hazel, my inlaws have contacted the appropriate people and these guys were hired through a gov't agency and apparently DID have permission to be there. However no one contacted us (and until they do we were told to kick them off again) and they're also supposed to (by law) close any gates they go through. Basically this group is in a lot of trouble at this point because of not following procedure, though it wasn't their particular fault that no one notified us. As far as they knew, they were allowed to be there.

The reason I suspected they may have had permission was simply based on the fact that he did provide me a card with a name, number, and information. Which obviously doesn't really mean anything, but I wondered at the time if communication lines had just been missed - which has turned out to be the case.

I usually put myself in peoples shoes a lot, and I never like to argue, confrontation always makes me feel weird. Thanks for your thoughts, I'm glad I wasn't out of line with how I handled it!!

hazelrunpack
November 5th, 2009, 02:22 PM
I'm still confused.... :o So who gave them permission? Your in-laws? Or does the govt have the right to come in and dig wherever they want? :confused:

14+kitties
November 5th, 2009, 03:28 PM
I'm still confused.... :o So who gave them permission? Your in-laws? Or does the govt have the right to come in and dig wherever they want? :confused:

You and me both hazel. If I own land the person they would have to contact is me, the owner. That just seems strange. :shrug:

aslan
November 5th, 2009, 03:29 PM
i think what hazel is asking Bailey is Who actually owns the land. If you own it, then you would be the one to give permission no one else...

Bailey_
November 5th, 2009, 03:51 PM
Yes, we own the land, and nobody in my family gave anyone persmission, nor did we know that this was going to happen.
I certainly don't know all the ins and outs, :shrug:just that part of the land they were digging on is an area being considered for a ring road construction so the government is the one that put these people on our land. The guy was talking about 'environmental study' or something along those lines, so I'm assuming that before the city can officially consider building anywhere, they have to make sure that there is nothing historic that they could potentially be building over. And for whatever reason, this group was put to work without telling us.
We're supposed to be notified, which means that until we get the official paperwork or phonecall from someone we have the right to continue kicking them off our land, but once they do officially notify us that this will be going on - it is completley out of our hands and we don't have much choice in the matter - which means these people will probably be back when they do the paperwork and continue digging.

But I don't know much about our rights, or what the government is allowed to do or not, so this has all been very sudden and we all feel really blindsided.

hazelrunpack
November 5th, 2009, 03:56 PM
At least now you've been forewarned, though. Can you keep the horses enclosed in a different pasture? :fingerscr

Bailey_
November 5th, 2009, 04:06 PM
You and me both hazel. If I own land the person they would have to contact is me, the owner. That just seems strange. :shrug:

That makes three of us. :sad:

But we're hoping that from here on out we'll at least be warned before something like this again - so we can make the proper preparations to ensure that our horses are safe first and foremost.

Like I said, this all wouldn't have been a big deal if we had been TOLD.

I've googled the company and found out more about this guy I spoke to on our land...here is the company link. You can see the guy I spoke to as well...his name was Don Hanna. http://www.lifewaysofcanada.com/html/personnel.php (http://www.lifewaysofcanada.com/html/personnel.php)
It's actually pretty interesting if anyone is interested in this sort of thing. If we did have something on our land, I for one would want to know about it.

Bailey_
November 5th, 2009, 04:08 PM
Yep Hazel. We have miles of different pastures and seperated gates and corrals, so we could easily make a way for them without having to disrupt the horses again. :thumbs up

Dog Dancer
November 6th, 2009, 04:30 PM
So I haven't looked at the link you posted Bailey, but you mentioned a ring road, does that mean they want to put a road through your property? That would suck. I'm glad the horses were okay and that you found them though, and that you were polite enough that you don't need to feel bad.

Bailey_
November 6th, 2009, 05:55 PM
Yes DD, they do want to cut off about 50 acres of our land to the south and put in a ring road.:sad: My inlaws have already sold part of the property off to the city to build on it, (they put in those duplex type homes, one built practically ontop of the other with virtually no yard space).

I don't really know what will happen at this point, if we'll sell or not, but I try not to think that far in advance.

As for the archeologists, we recieved a very LONG telephone message yesterday - the main guy I spoke to - apologizing for trespassing on our land, which was very nice.

Dog Dancer
November 6th, 2009, 05:59 PM
Nice that they called to apologize. Just so sad that they want to build on the land though. But I guess you can't stop progress and the spread of us humans it seems. Very sad.

Gail P
November 7th, 2009, 01:36 AM
Yes, we own the land, and nobody in my family gave anyone persmission, nor did we know that this was going to happen.

It's your land, you didn't give permission. How can the government just send people in? If they had expropriated land for development I could see it, but then it would be their land, not yours. I just don't get it. :shrug: If it was my land and my animals being put at risk you can bet I'd not only kick them out and post signs, I'd have the gates chained and locked as well. Combination locks so family can get through without having to worry about where the key is, but nobody else can enter. When we moved in here our property wasn't fenced and people used to hunt on it. We of course fenced it for the horses and I posted no trespassing signs all over the place. Also braided blaze orange flagging tape into their manes and tails the first November we were here.

Bailey_
November 7th, 2009, 01:30 PM
It's your land, you didn't give permission. How can the government just send people in? If they had expropriated land for development I could see it, but then it would be their land, not yours. I just don't get it. :shrug: If it was my land and my animals being put at risk you can bet I'd not only kick them out and post signs, I'd have the gates chained and locked as well. Combination locks so family can get through without having to worry about where the key is, but nobody else can enter. When we moved in here our property wasn't fenced and people used to hunt on it. We of course fenced it for the horses and I posted no trespassing signs all over the place. Also braided blaze orange flagging tape into their manes and tails the first November we were here.

If it was up to me, you bet I would have tresspassing signs all over our land, and this may be something to push with my inlaws. I've brought it up before, but nothing has ever been put up. Until now, we've never really ever had a reason to worry about it before. Though we've occasionally come across random people hiking through our land (joggers and such) it's never been an issue. This might be a reason to look into more serious ways of keeping people off the land, but sadly, it's not only up to me. One of the downsides of having so much land practically *in* the city.

As I mentioned, this team was not supposed to be on our land without permission. Obviously that is tresspassing. Which was why it was so upsetting and shocking.

But lines were crossed, a letter (we found out in our apology phonecall) was sent to the wrong house, our family name and number was not on the list that the project leader had the day I found and spoke to him (I had to give him my inlaws number so they could be contacted directly); so because their team had assumed that they had the go-ahead as no one had told them that it was not okay to be there, they went ahead with their project.
They've since apologized, but probably will be back because my inlaws are reasonable and don't mind having something like this done - as long as we know about it.

It was a BIG muckup on the gov'ts part as well as this other company. Someone missed something, and our animals were put in danger because of it. I'm just glad nothing happened to them!


Thanks DD. I agree, it's incredibly sad how quickly land becomes overrun by construction. My inlaws had old property (sold it below our land now) that one of the citys main highways heading to Banff now lies on. The DH always comments on it when we drive over it. VERY sad indeed.

edwina
November 8th, 2009, 12:51 PM
It's your land, you didn't give permission. How can the government just send people in? If they had expropriated land for development I could see it, but then it would be their land, not yours. I just don't get it. :shrug: If it was my land and my animals being put at risk you can bet I'd not only kick them out and post signs, I'd have the gates chained and locked as well. Combination locks so family can get through without having to worry about where the key is, but nobody else can enter. When we moved in here our property wasn't fenced and people used to hunt on it. We of course fenced it for the horses and I posted no trespassing signs all over the place. Also braided blaze orange flagging tape into their manes and tails the first November we were here.

I dont know how it is in canada, but here in the states, if the government wants your land , you will take the money they are willing to give you for it, or they will condemn it and take it for free. :frustrated: If its an independent company that wants to build something ( example: a mall), then you dont have to sell, they cant touch your land legally. But its hard to fight the government. Maybe if you have quite a few of your neihbors to back you up and are willing to not sell, then you might be able to win against the government, but other wise no. :sad:

I think you should talk to a lawyer to see what your rights are. :confused:

Bailey_
November 8th, 2009, 09:06 PM
I think similiar rules here apply as well Edwina, because from what we're being told - they cannot come onto our land without our knowledge, BUT they do not need our permission. That was granted to them by the gov't. I don't really know much else, my inlaws I'm sure know more than I am aware of, and as it stands right now the archeologists are trying to get a hold of my fatherinlaw who is currently sick and not taking phonecalls. It's only a matter of time before they are back.