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HELP! Honey's vicious to Chocolate!

wAggie
August 22nd, 2004, 10:54 PM
ok, AT times... it's really horrible.

it occurs most often in the yard, well, NOT often, but of all places i've seen the highest number evident in the backyard. :(

they're all fine and dandly, Choco's sniffing out what's behind the fence as usual, Honey's watching him and all flying object... looks over at him all happy and in his own little world, when all of the sudden she CHARGES at him w horrendous growls and barks attacking him.

ok, no she hasn't drawn blood, though he does have a big scrap on him i noticed yesterday... it may or may not have been from her.

my huge concern is WHY is she attacking him in this manner, seemingly at random? he actually CRIES out it pain, even twice at times bc she doesnt stop. i've gotten frustrated enough i've put the muzzle on her the moment she starts this behaviour. i call Chocolate to me in attempt to get her closer to me when this happens, bc she won't come near me. or i call her into the house, and keep her separated from Choco for a bit. she seems to enjoy this disgusting behaviour, she skips into the house and is wagging her tail.

excuse my polish, but WTF? :mad:



Re: pic
it's a thick layer of dried blood, was dry when i found it, it's on the back of his front left elbow, as u can see i've pulled the skin over to take the shot. was dry when i found it while giving him belly rubs & hugs yesterday :o )

Luba
August 23rd, 2004, 11:54 AM
I'm not sure what would suddenly trigger behaviour like this.
A possibility that I thought of is Honey is sensing something different in Chocolate.

Has Choco been acting dif? Change of habits, sleep anything?

Not to scare you but dogs can detect illness in eachother and in people. Esp things like tumours and seizures.

Give it a thought and maybe explain a little more what happens actually. I'm concerned.

Bill & Bob
August 23rd, 2004, 11:57 AM
That's very true. Someone I know had two GSDs and the one had eppilepsy. When she would go into seizures, the other dog would attack her and pin her to the ground. Very nasty. Unfortunately, all the owner could say was that "nature is not always kind to the sick and weak'.

Lucky Rescue
August 23rd, 2004, 12:05 PM
Actually, it's not uncommon for dogs who are friends to do this in the yard.

In the yard, a dog may see/smell exciting things - cats, other dogs, squirells, etc, but can't get at them, so they redirect any territorial drives, aggression or excitement on to whatever is handy, including the other dog.

You must be aware of what is going on outside the yard, and maybe exercise one dog at a time, or find other ways to exercise them.

Bitches are often worse for this than males.

wAggie
August 23rd, 2004, 04:17 PM
i've put great observation into a possibility of Honey "detecting" Chocolate's possible illness.

conclusively, i didn't find any indication of any unusual behaviour in Choco.

he's still alert, tail high up and wagging, same eating and drinking habits, responds to name, attempts to hump Honey at various times, ... what else?

the last time i had Choco outside and Honey inside w me... well, when Choco came in the house, Honey was smelling him for a good while quite intensely.... pondering, i Realized the upstairs neighbours were outside bbq'ing in the yard and Choco had the smell on his fur. :p

that was the ONLY time i saw her so curious in him.

Choco's 3, he's on his whip worm meds, nothing's out of the ordinary, he's on the meds to ensure the worms completely disappear, i haven't seen anything unusual in his poop.

like i said, this happens in the yard.... LR, ur suggestion is entirely possible in my case... how do i reduce this aggression in Honey? is it possible?

they're EXCELLENT on walks (if u dont count the pulling, that'll never go away. :p ) NO aggression at all.

if Choco goes to take Honey's toy, she chews his ear/neck for fun. lol. NO pain/whining from Choco. one holds the toy while the other chews on it!

BUT this attacking in the yard is insane! the neighbours must have interesting thoughts of us... :eek: :rolleyes: :o

LR, they're in the yard for leisure, Honey's not a fan of the outdoors as Choco. She prefers the great indoors for rubbing herself on the couch and sleeping against mommy. :rolleyes: there, that's her "exercise" ;)

Chany
August 23rd, 2004, 06:04 PM
This may be way off but do you think she may have something buried out there that she's worried about him getting. Just wondering because she only does it in the yard? Sorry Waggie I may be waaay off here.

goldenblaze
August 23rd, 2004, 06:13 PM
If only they could talk to us in a way we could understand.
my mother has the same problem with her two dogs, 8 yr old poodle and 4 yr shih tzu, poodle goes after shih tzu we have no idea way. I will be reading this thread, I'm sure we can learn from it too.

wAggie
August 23rd, 2004, 06:22 PM
well, there's this spot Honey IS determined to dig up... every so often she remembers it's there and goes wild.

i don't believe she, or him, have ever buried something... that is yet to be seen.

what she's trying to dig up, i believe, is old roots... but i cant b sure. the deepest she's made the hole is about 8-10 inches.. that's a lot. i haven't covered it back up yet, i'm curious to see what pops up.

oh, and yes, it is the same exact spot she keeps digging which happens to be in the middle of the grass. :rolleyes:

Chany
August 23rd, 2004, 06:37 PM
Is that around the area she attacks him?

wAggie
August 23rd, 2004, 06:46 PM
not really, he doesn't even look down, things on the ground don't interest him when he's in the yard....

she usually attacks him when he's by the fence or shed, when he's beside/ against something, not in the open space... but it varies, i havent seen her attack him in one specific area.

at the same time, she doesnt charge him EVERY time... i'll keep a closer look...

Luba
August 23rd, 2004, 08:22 PM
How many times has this happened and how long has it been going on for now? Did you just see it that once or were there other times?

The mark on Choco's leg could have been from something else? Maybe?

What is Choco's reaction when this happens? Do you break it up or let it continue and they resolve it amongst eachother?

Yes, it would be nice if they could just speak.....maybe Honey was PMS'ing LOL (or pretending to)lol :cool:

wAggie
August 23rd, 2004, 10:18 PM
whow, that's a whole lota q's...! :) here are the As:

1 - this has happened mmmaybe 10 times, roughly.
2- it has started deteriorating... maybe a couple months ago, 3 tops, i wouldn't think any more than that.
3- i have seen it more than once, absolutely
4- of course the mark on choco's leg could be from something else. but i can't totally rule out HOney.
5- chocolate was trying to escape the situation, he kept walking away, trying to stop her w his behind, when that failed, he tried attempting that snap w him showing his teeth in slow-mo if u know what i mean.. he also walks towards me bc i'm already yelling "honey, stop it!, enough!"
6- i have to break it up, it doesn't stop. honey is EXTREMELY loud, it echos through the backyards. i guarantee the neighbours in the nxt street can hear her. :( i've tried to wait around for it to stop, it's gotten to the point where it's difficult to pull her away from him. when i have him, she jumps near him. when i have her, she tries jumping away from me and at him. it's a nasty game to her, like i said earlier.
in the beginning, i used to give Honey a warning w a sharp "Honey...!" she gets plenty of my attention. she can come to me whenever she wants, which she does. i can be petting her, she could be watching a fly but then she turns to look at choco and she's flying. it's like she suddenly remembers she's gotta all ofthe sudden "oh ya, Him!" and attacks.

its as tho she's realized its more fun to torment him then get cuddles from me. :(

*sigh*

Luba
August 23rd, 2004, 11:04 PM
Thats a very odd situation. I'm not sure what to say exactly.

Has there been any drastic change in their lifestyle over that period of time since it started?

Have you been away or at home more then usual?

Just trying all the possibilities here, didn't realize it happened so many times now..10 WOW! And it's jump and attack with growling and teeth showing?

WTF ?? I'm at a loss!

If you can remember back to the first time it happened and all along...has it ALWAYS been outside? IF so maybe that the answer / reason...something to do with outside huh.

Do they have anything to play with outside? Maybe a basketball or some frisbees?

If you hang maybe a bird feeder in the tree out of their jump range maybe it will distract her?

Anything worth a try. :confused:

wAggie
August 25th, 2004, 09:09 PM
1- drastic change... perhaps
2- lota work... 34 days STRAIGHT. btw 47-77hr/wk and TOO much commuting... there goes my summer... good bye... :rolleyes: i try to spend as much time as possible w them, i'll tell u that.

they may be fed up of one another and in need of a break... :confused: or even more of mommy's touch...

3- attack, THEN jump, teeth, growl, etc.

4-i've seen 1 or 2 times in the house. :(

5- they dont ALWAYS have something to play with, but most time they do. tennis ball, or frisbee, or sticks, something's always around, mommy brings food out (honey eats it, choco con't to sniff fence... as usual) lol

maybe it's #1 and #5, haven't seen much of it in the past few days, that y i haven't replied earlier... i was really checking to see what i do see... but damn, it's loud as ever. i hate that.

Shelby
August 25th, 2004, 09:33 PM
You mentioned that Honey prefers to be inside. And you also mentioned that once you break them up you separate them by leaving Choco outside and sending Honey inside (which makes her happy). Do you do this everytime she attacks him? If you do, do you think she could be attacking him because she knows that you will let her inside? and because she prefers to be inside you aren't reprimanding her but encouraging her? Because she is getting what she wants??

Luba
August 25th, 2004, 09:50 PM
Thats a good point Shelby :D

wAggie
August 26th, 2004, 11:28 AM
hahaha, could be, very very true!

i'll keep a look out for that as well... i should probably start leaving the screen door opened a bit...

at times i've followed her to see what the heck was so interesting in the house that she had to abandon her outdoor activities... i haven't the foggiest idea... all i see is her returning back to me to go back outside. on OCCasion, she goes to drink the indoor water, lmao.

meh, i guess she likes the cooler air. :confused: :)

i'll let y'all know if this continues and what other leads i'll have.


i've really really REALLY appreciated all those who inputted their thoughts, THANK YOU.

(hey, if u have more, keep 'em coming. ;) )

fisher
August 26th, 2004, 09:29 PM
This is very interesting as we have a similar issue with our 2 dogs. My "big " girl-"Mama" an 80 lb Lab and my "little" girl "Pipsqueak" or Pippers we call her-a 65lb Lab (2 & 1yr old respectively) are the best of friends, sleep curled up together every nite, share their toys and treats! Pippers even wash's Mama's face after a treat! They are however totally different personalities. "Mama" is laid back, calm and cool-very confident-very quite-seldom barks-and I swear she knows everthing we say to her. Pippers is very high strung, always into trouble, very excitable, demanding and loud! She seems to get angry at Mama on our walks, if Mama goes into the forest and Pippers loses site of her--when she finds her she charges at full speed toward her and a couple of times has actually knocked Mama off her feet! She'll jump and growl at her as if she's scolding her, and sometimes also charges at her sort of growling when Mama enters or leaves the car or house behind Pippers. It's almost as if she's trying to "corral" her-if I didn't have her papers I'd think she had some Border Collie in her! Mama is quite smart though, and now ducks or does a quick swerve when she sees Pippers comming at her. It's very strange behaviour-but they are otherwise so so close and very loving. We figure it's just part of their "language" as dogs.
I do worry about her hurting Mama when she rams into her, and although she seems to be growling, she has never used her teeth for anything but her food. It's really strange-we're hoping she'll outgrow it. It IS embarassing if someone who does not know the dog sees this behaviour- they would think Pippers to be a very nasty dog! which is not the case at all. I guess we can't figure out everything animals do-although I've developed a bad habit of driving myself crazy trying to!

wAggie
August 30th, 2004, 06:49 PM
wow... wow, WOW!

so so similar!!!

here's a bit of an update: Choco does NOTHING when Honey goes after him. He doesn't walk away, he doesn't look at me, he doesn't attack Honey, he doesn't show her his teeth, he doesn't jump back. he JUST stands there, looks like he waits there for her to finish doing what she's doing. he turns into a wall and she looks quite ridiculous jumping/barking/growling all over him... :rolleyes:

i've even left the screen door opened wide enough so that she can get in and out of the house. however, she still finds attacking chocolate fascinating... :rolleyes: :(

Shelby
August 31st, 2004, 02:30 AM
are you sure she's really attacking him? or just playing with him?

When Wilson gets overly excited he growls and barks at Izzy and it sounds like he's being aggressive, but he's actually just playing. I've watched the other German shorthaired pointers in our obedience club and they do the same thing.

wAggie
August 31st, 2004, 11:22 AM
yes... i see ur point (not pun intended :rolleyes: :p )...

but then i'd think Honey would be smart nuff to see Chocolate absolutely has ZERO interest in playing games like that with her. in the house, they play totally different. there's very little sound coming from them... the times they know i'm near by and actually WATCHING them, i know they grow louder but NO where near as loud like Honey gets in the yard....

hmh. maybe she's a very rough dog.... yay :rolleyes:

tho there's absolutely no reason she should be like that, she wasn't taught here, obviously, from the sounds and Looks of Chocolate, i know it's impossible to gather Honey aquiring this behaviour from my nurturing... :confused:

unless she was always like this..

Luba, what r ur thoughts??

Princesss04
August 31st, 2004, 11:34 AM
Where has Luba been I have not seen or heard from her in a little while (a few days) maybe I have just not been on when she was.

sammiec
August 31st, 2004, 11:37 AM
Aggie, have you tried to leave Honey out when she "attacks" Chocolate? I know that was suggested before because she thinks she's being rewarded by going inside after she gets him... maybe out them out seperately a couple of times and see if there's something in that corner that she wants to get at, but Chocolate's always standing there blocking her... I am kinda at a loss this is odd behaviour.

Heather MH
August 31st, 2004, 02:04 PM
I have to agree with LR on this one. I have two BC brother and sister. They get along fine but Chevy the male if anoyed with something attacks Daisy. For instance Chevy thinks it is very funny when someone dances for him. Yep I said dance!!! :D But sometimes he hates it, mood swings I guess. On the days he doesn't feel like dancing he goes for Daisy and seriously attacks her. It works the other way though for us. When Chevy is told to do something like, lay on this blanket or go outside, and he doesnt' listen Daisy goes after him. She doesn't attack so much is herd him and bark and make a big deal out of it. Luckily they will both retreat as soon as we tell them to stop.

My personal opinion I think Honey is bored and taking her frusteration out on Chocolate. Maybe because you aren't able to be at home as much right now. My understanding is these are fairly active dogs such as my BC's,, and I know my guys go completely crazy when they are not receiving the same amount of exercise and attention as they are accustomed to. I don't in any way mean this is your fault. Sometimes life just happens :D

Shelby
August 31st, 2004, 07:11 PM
yes, it's very strange.... sorry, I don't have any other ideas of what it could be??

wAggie
August 31st, 2004, 10:18 PM
well, ok, now this is getting strange...

here's another "mysterious" mark i found on poor buh-bah when he lied down on the subway floor.... :(

it's by his genital, looks as tho Honey may have walked over him, or been scratching at him to get up and play w her... :rolleyes:


wad y'all think?

Luba
August 31st, 2004, 10:26 PM
It's impossible to tell what the scratch marks are from. We could blame Honey but w/o seeing it that wouldn't be fair to her :( Could have also been from play they were doing up on their haunches or Choco jumping at the fence. Who knows.

I think the boredom may be a big issue for her. She does so love to run. When was the last time she had the enjoyment of running off lead, other then the yard? Or some really great long walks in the park or something??

Is there a possibility of getting someone in to walk them through the day while you're at work? Someone reliable and such that could go on a long walk with them and poop them out? ;)

If you can, and I know it's hard to....if you see her do this maybe stay at a distance outta their eyesight if they're outside peek through the window. See how far it goes or what she really does.

Take a read at the articles I sent ya about thyroid problems and sudden aggression. Thats the only other thing??

So more exercise or thyroid test??

wAggie
August 31st, 2004, 10:50 PM
welcome back luba! :eek:


what a turn of events ur post is creating!!

here are the comments/answers to ur top 20 q's ;)

1 - yes, the scratch may have NOT been caused by my h0, Choco could have scratch himself against a branch of some sort while rubbing his face into the grass... slightly probably, but most experience still leads me to lean towards that devil ... ;) :D

2 - i highly doubt Honey's bored, anywhere. she's got plenty to do. if it's not sleeping, getting rubs, lying in her chair, looking out the window from her couch, playing w toys, following me around, playing w Choco, etc.. well, she has not time to be bored.

3 - yes, Luba, she runs off-leash in the tennis court i told u about...

4 - we actually went on a 4HR walk today... i did NOT initiate this, i'm not this crazy... and to start, at work, we went on a 2hr walk w the kids thru a ravine... WHAT was i thinking??! :o :confused: :)

5 - at this time, this being my personal preference/choice, i will NOT have any strangers coming into my house to put a leash on my dogs and guide them away from their home... uh uh. i am MORE than happy to do this myself!!

6 - got to read article! DOH! my bad, my bad :o ... send it again..? J/K! J/K i swear!! i still have it!! :P

7 - for now, i'm gonna try to watch how long this "abuse" takes place, and monitor exactly what happens w my eyes, not so much w my ears.. and bc my last day is FRIIIIIIIIIIDAY @ day care, i'm down to one job nxt wk, YAY!!! and therefore this leads to MORE exercise... but i am gonna read about that thyroid test :confused:

:p

Cinnabear
August 31st, 2004, 11:41 PM
Oh Aggie that 4 hr ravine is funny! I did that this spring with my dog. :D Oops took the wrong turn 2 hr later for me except I still trying to figure out our trail system. I was quite amazed how much energy they have. They will never tire out. I wanted to quit so bad. ;) Just remember I'm laughing with you. :D

Luba
August 31st, 2004, 11:47 PM
what a turn of events ur post is creating!!

I don't understand that really???

Sorry if my questions upset you, I was trying to understand the situation as clear as I could and be of assistance.

I hope it works out, if I can be of any help off the board here give me a ring or email or something :D

Edited to add:
was off the computer for a week ;)

Princesss04
September 1st, 2004, 09:36 AM
Welcome back Luba we have missed you lots. Many things have happened since you were gone. Waggie just a thought. Do you treat both dogs the same. I mean I know you are not mean to one, but what I am saying is since you think hO is miss treating the other on have you been treating her differant. I think some times dogs can pick up on that and become jealous. Just a thought, I doubt you are but that is all I could think of.

Cactus Flower
September 1st, 2004, 12:03 PM
I apologize, but I am a bit confused.

You'd said that Choco shows his teeth when he is attacked, yelps out in pain, tries to walk away from Honey, etc. You then stated that now:
Choco does NOTHING when Honey goes after him. He doesn't walk away, he doesn't look at me, he doesn't attack Honey, he doesn't show her his teeth, he doesn't jump back. he JUST stands there, looks like he waits there for her to finish doing what she's doing. he turns into a wall "

I must say, that is the most unnatural reaction I've ever heard of, for a dog to just stand there while being attacked as viciously as you've described.

And try as I may, I can't picture Honey just blindly lashing out at Choco for no reason, when he is just off minding his own business.

Unless Choco is catatonic and Honey is schizophrenic, something is amiss here.

You also said:
1- drastic change... perhaps
2- lota work... 34 days STRAIGHT. btw 47-77hr/wk and TOO much commuting
Then later added:
i highly doubt Honey's bored, anywhere. she's got plenty to do. if it's not sleeping, getting rubs, lying in her chair, looking out the window from her couch, playing w toys, following me around, playing w Choco, etc.. well, she has not time to be bored.

3 - yes, Luba, she runs off-leash in the tennis court i told u about...

4 - we actually went on a 4HR walk today...

Working 34 days straight 47-77 hours per week, how can you realistically have the time for off-leash tennis court runs and four hour walks? How can Honey have "plenty to do"? Do you have someone entertaining/walking her when you are at work?

I am not attacking you, wAggie. These are just my observations.

If you are feeling concerned for Choco's welfare, and you are away at work for so many hours- leaving him unsupervised with a dog who really will attack him unpredictably with no stimulus whatsoever.....maybe you should consider returning Honey to the rescue you got her from until you can spend more time at home working with her, or your situation changes.

wAggie
September 1st, 2004, 11:28 PM
k, let's start:

Cinnabear, i think my shoulders/arms still hurt from holding the leashes... it's an ackward position i tell u! walking w ur arms stretched out in front of u, who would have thought??! ;)

Luba, my comment springs from the lack of posts u've been making, silly! :p ur q's haven't upset me. i'll give u a ring when i get decent time... priorities first! (u still got my #, right?)

Princesss04, i'll answer this question both ways. yes, ur absolutely right, i do tend to treat them unequally at times, i'm human after all. BUT i will say that i try my best to even out the treatment after treating them unequally.

and this is what i mean: in the evening, i notice Choco wandering close to mommy while Honey plays w her ball on the chair. so i bring in Choco for one-on-one in the bdrm, this usually doesn't last longer than 30min. on occasion, Honey gets up to check where we are but she doesn't scratch at the door. just stands there and sortly goes back to her chair, window, other activities, etc. THEN, i let choco out, he's had enough smothering ;) and bring in Happy Honey. we chill 2gever while choco rests outside peacefully. on occasion he scratches at the door, but with experience i learn he only wants to go sniff out the window. so natural, lol, i've ALso learned not to teach the dog any "new" "tricks" (scratch door, mommy comes to open it for u).

they both get equal kisses, hugs, and rubs. they each get a turn sleeping by mommy's face, each gets licks from used plates... same treats, tho Honey prefers to leave certain foods for Choco to finish for her (ie, oranges), etc, etc, ETC.

end of story. :)


Cactus Flower, u have perfectly valid questions. here are my answers:
1 - i've been observing the 2 and this (the "nothing" part) is the most recent behaviour i've noticed in choco, i'd like to BELIEVE this does NOT refer to a "helpless" stage.

2 - w 7 days in a wk and 24 hr/day, i CAN realistically tell u that YES, i am able to take my dogs to a tennis court and 4hr walks. the shock, eh? ;) of course, my wonderful bf helps this little "mommy" out. we go to the tennis courts together at night, when i am home from work late. and the days i didn't have work in the evening, i would go for walks, inc. that 4hr mentioned earlier. :cool:

3 - right now i'm sitting in the den behind closed doors. i hear choco & ho quietly fooling around. thus far, there has been one yelp i've heard, and it's been from Honey. they "know" ( ;) ) it's almost 12:30am and therefore, have learned to play quietly at this time of night when mommy's busy replying to threads regarding her beloved. kinda like a routine. :p

i am having these 2 til death do us part, got it missy? :)


melanie, i see it as a power trip at times, but Chocolate does Not appear fearful of her, ever. the worst expression i've seen on him is "mommy, tell her to leave me alone, i just wanna sniff this spot" as he's walking away from her w his head slightly lowered. he looks sad that she's distracted his sniffing hobby and moved him from his desired location.
by ya, he does appear to "understand" she's crazy at times... like when she's anxiously playing w 2 balls and attempting to collect the blanket --> all three in her mouth at the same time. :D

Cactus Flower
September 3rd, 2004, 06:48 PM
Cactus Flower: ...If you are feeling concerned for Choco's welfare, and you are away at work for so many hours- leaving him unsupervised with a dog who really will attack him unpredictably with no stimulus whatsoever...

If everything you say is true, Choco is obviously in danger, left alone in Honey's presence.

Do you keep them seperated when you are gone? Or is your boyfriend there with them?

wAggie
September 5th, 2004, 05:37 PM
CF, Chocolate's behaviour and body language does NOT indicate he is in ANY danger.

Watching him today in the yard, I noticed he raises his head higher when she tries jumping at his face. She often gets in his path for him to notice her; he walks around her and continues walking to his destination.

*looks over at buh-bah* He's wagging his tail right now. Honey's walking behind him, now she's faced me and is wagging Her tail.

Excuse me while I go rub this pushy/nudging girl.... :rolleyes:

lol.


I'm gonna try to take some pix of what's she does to Chocolate... it's hard to explain.

Cactus Flower
September 6th, 2004, 11:43 AM
Ok, now I'm really confused. What does CHOCO'S behavior have to do with whether or not he is in danger?

You've said:
ok, AT times... it's really horrible.

all of the sudden she CHARGES at him w horrendous growls and barks attacking him.

i call her into the house, and keep her separated from Choco for a bit. she seems to enjoy this disgusting behaviour

WHY is she attacking him in this manner, seemingly at random? he actually CRIES out it pain,

i've tried to wait around for it to stop, it's gotten to the point where it's difficult to pull her away from him

when i have him, she jumps near him. when i have her, she tries jumping away from me and at him

she could be watching a fly but then she turns to look at choco and she's flying. it's like she suddenly remembers she's gotta all ofthe sudden "oh ya, Him!" and attacks.

its as tho she's realized its more fun to torment him then get cuddles from me

she still finds attacking chocolate fascinating

Choco could have scratch himself against a branch of some sort while rubbing his face into the grass... slightly probably, but most experience still leads me to lean towards that devil

i'm gonna try to watch how long this "abuse" takes place

Even the title of your thread says: "Honey's vicious to Chocolate!"

I'm just wondering how you can justify leaving them home alone together, given everything that you, yourself, have said. It doesn't seem fair to Chocolate. You've made it clear that he is in danger, even with you being RIGHT THERE. Unless, as I asked earlier, your boyfriend is there to supervise them?

wAggie
September 6th, 2004, 11:48 PM
ok, seriously, CF, I can no longer make heads or tails from this thread.

when the dogs are outside, I supervise them. I observe their interaction. their behaviours are not static, they change over time.

a few months ago, it appeared that Honey was becoming aggressive towards Chocolate. in my eyes, she was attacking Chocolate; however, she hasn't ever drawn blood. I dont believe there would ever be any intention in her to do so.

I created this thread in attempt to gather knowledge from the readers of this board. I wanted the knowledge to understand why Honey was reacting in this way, if it could get worse, and most of all, how to prevent this behaviour from becoming worse.

yes, I have posted a few pix of what Honey may have done to Chocolate. these pictures are not conclusive. we will never know what exactly happened to Chocolate when he got the cut on his knee, etc.

I strongly believe, and this is now a fact, Honey has not been intentionally aggressive to Chocolate in attempt to harm him. She plays aggressively with Chocolate, she tries to get him wound up so that he's frolics with her. You should have been in my yard yesterday; Honey stimulated Chocolate enough that he began to chase Her. he was playing her game. I'm not sure what triggered it. maybe they do this other times, but I miss it. Yesterday truly was a great example of the bond they share and understand together.

but hey, I will continue to observe their behaviour in and out of the yard. my work hours are going to be reduced, effective immediately.

I'm very much looking forward to my leisure time w the kids, and there's going to be plenty of it.

but hey, I don't gotta be explaining that to you. ;)

Cactus Flower
September 7th, 2004, 01:11 AM
I can no longer make heads or tails from this thread

That makes two of us. (Which is why I was trying to sort it out).

I strongly believe, and this is now a fact, Honey has not been intentionally aggressive to Chocolate in attempt to harm him. She plays aggressively with Chocolate, she tries to get him wound up so that he's frolics with her.

That's quite a turnaround! Wow. Amazing.

but hey, I don't gotta be explaining that to you
Nope, you sure don't (but you're trying, aren't you?).

Doesn't look as though my questions are going to be answered, and that's ok.

Next thread.

wAggie
September 7th, 2004, 05:06 PM
doh.

my bad, here are the answers:

1 - no, they are not separated when I'm gone.

2 - no, my bf is not here to supervise.

3 - I don't think Chocolate's in any real danger bc of what I've posted in the earlier posts...


fyi, I'm not changing opinions all of the sudden. I have been observing much more behaviour than actually writing it down here, all the little things count, right? I've also been discussing this situation in dept w others, so my possible solutions not only stem from this board, but also outside the internet as well.

I hope that clears up the uneven dialogues...

melanie
September 7th, 2004, 05:12 PM
and dont forget honey is not some psycho freak dog, she is just a normal girl, just likes a power trip, who can blame her :D . but i do agree aggie, i doubt she would ever eat choc to death while you were out, dont really think that will happen. also choc is a normal dog and if he really felt threatened he would do something about it. he is a boy who looks like he can hold his own when needed. :D

Goldenmom
September 7th, 2004, 06:44 PM
and dont forget honey is not some psycho freak dog, she is just a normal girl, just likes a power trip, who can blame her :D . but i do agree aggie, i doubt she would ever eat choc to death while you were out, dont really think that will happen. also choc is a normal dog and if he really felt threatened he would do something about it. he is a boy who looks like he can hold his own when needed. :D


Melanie, I totally disagree with you on this. These dogs should NEVER be left alone ever! What exactly is a "normal" dog? I have a very submissive dog here at home and one of my other girls could literally kill her before she would fight back. Gender does not matter when it comes to fighting and holding their own.

Can you imagine coming home to a house full of blood from their fighting. I would think this would be upsetting, knowing full well it could have been prevented.

Heather and her 3 Golden Girls

wAggie
September 7th, 2004, 06:53 PM
Goldenmom, what's your routine when it comes to your 3 dogs?

How do you handle it? and why have you decided to keep all 3 dogs?



Let me just add this: 2 nights ago, my bf invited me, Chocolate and Honey over to his place. at one point, Honey had to pee so I took her out the front door. Until that moment, Chocolate and Honey have almost always left a home together. This was an extremely rare occation when Honey was separated from her "brother." you know what she did? She appeared frightened of the environment, she wouldn't walk 2 feet past the front door, the walk way, the grass, everything was foreign to her and all of the sudden, she was immobalized. at ANY other time (entering/exiting subway stations, for example), Honey instinctively follows Chocolate out. HE guides HER. this was evident as early as that evening when we piled up both dogs into the van for the "road trip."

in short, Honey can NOT survive without Chocolate. as much as she "torments" him, she is his subordinate in any unfamiliar environment. As I've seen throught their rel'ship, Honey's home is "inside" the physical boundaries of the house and property while Choco's belongs outside.... and with the word "home," I am refering to familiarity and comfort of surrounding environment. she takes control in the known, and he's the intellect who's out there to the adventurer.

Goldenmom
September 7th, 2004, 07:09 PM
Goldenmom, what's your routine when it comes to your 3 dogs?

How do you handle it? and why have you decided to keep all 3 dogs?.



Well, I will answer the second question first. I really don't have any handling to do at home. There is complete harmony in my home, none of the dogs attack the other or try to show their dominance. My first 2 girls are sisters and extremely close. They are equals, in that they share all toys etc. These girls have welcomed all the Fosters I have had in our home, with not one problem. I am very picky as to the temperment of a foster dog however. It has to be a very docile, good natured dog, that won't bother the other girls.

The last girl that we adopted 3 months ago, Ricki, she is 7 years old. I didn't plan on keeping her, but when she got into our home and we saw how loving and obedient she was, we couldn't NOT keep her. She got along with the other girls, really just keeping to herself mostly. SHe was an only dog for 7 years and we knew that. She is possessive of her woobies or bones. The other girls know not to go near her when she has one, because she will bark or growl and chase them a bit. Nothing else happens.

As for routine, it is just a normal household. All 3 dogs have run of the house all day. My first 2 girls sleep on our bed during the day, and Ricki sleeps on the floor on a blanket with her head a bit under the bed a bit.

Did I answer your questions?

Heather and her 3 Golden Girls

Luba
September 7th, 2004, 09:27 PM
Oh Aggie u know what that MAY be...

Honey used to do that here as well (if it's the same thing)
She creeps remember I told you
Esp if she wants to sneak up on something.
She will FREEEZE in her tracks and even shake if she's watching something
like a bird or cat or interested in something.
It could just be her way of scoping things out...

wAggie
September 7th, 2004, 09:34 PM
Goldenmom, yes, you have... but I was searching for answers that pertained to the submissive dog...

your household seems to be quite "normal" aka as expected. :p and by normal, I mean extraordinary behaviour is lacking, like aggression.


Luba, good point!! however, this seems a bit off. I wouldn't imagine her displaying this behaviour in an environment like that... hmm. however she was shaking at one point. she didnt bark or anything. there wasnt an animal in sight nor did she make any noises. she didnt creep around either. actually, she probably doesnt do that as much as she used to with you. she sprints here. :rolleyes: :p

OH! ANOTHER thing, Honey NEVER "attacked" Chocolate that night. He attempted to hump her once in the bdrm b4 bedtime and Choco was even barking a couple of times at something he saw in the distance late in the night before we went inside (I would presume it was a squirrel/raccoon).

so this goes back to Honey's interest to aggitate Choco in her territory. :rolleyes:

Luba
September 8th, 2004, 08:22 PM
But keep in mind her senses are much higher then yours. Being unfamiliar with the area she may have wanted to absorb all that was happening so holding a stance is just pointer behaviour.

Glad to know that things aren't really vicious though as that was quite nerving. Being pushy for attention ...just like a girl to do that!! LOL :p

wAggie
September 9th, 2004, 07:51 PM
ya... tho i've noticed she's very much afraid of being along. she's practically never been alone since u got her. either she's with Chocolate or me, that's the "closest" she's gotten to being alone.

but alone w/o Choco in an unfamiliar environment, and where i'm not letting her be pressed against my leg.... is a different story.