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Sound like a puppy mill??

Dog Dancer
October 15th, 2009, 12:08 PM
I was looking at the pets advertisements in our local newspaper and notice several ads (about 7 maybe) for different types of dogs (Mastiffs, Chocolate Labs, Labradoodles, Chi's, Yorkie type crosses, you get my drift). All of the ads are individual ads, but have the same phone number and a few of them have an address. I know my husband will not let me go out to investigate the addy no matter what, but what should I do with this info?? I will be writing to the newspaper and asking them if they don't screen for this type of thing - am I wrong to think it sounds like a puppy mill? Am I assuming too much? If I call the number what should I ask them?? I guess my first question would be if I they have a spay or neuter contract because I really don't want one - that would tell me alot I'm thinking. What else? If I call them and get that feeling would I report it to the SPCA or pound in that area? If it was a rescue would they not say that in their ads and wouldn't they just place one ad?? I'm not sure what to do here, but feel I need to do something. Please help give me some direction...

Chris21711
October 15th, 2009, 12:17 PM
We have a seller around here Dog Dancer, she doesn't breed too much but buys from brokers who go to puppy mills and similar operations.

As far as reporting it to the SPCA...it is legal to have a puppy mill as long as the conditions that the dogs are kept in are upto standard.

As for your husband not allowing you...don't let him know, what he doesn't know won't hurt :rolleyes:

BenMax
October 15th, 2009, 12:21 PM
You have to go yourself and see the conditions as reporting them without evidence is futile.

If you do decide to investigate you have to be on the 'hicky' side. You do not start your questioning about anything 'responsible'. You check the dogs out like a side of meat, making comments, laughing and just being ignorant and rather cold. If this is a good breeder - they will kick your arse out of there. If they are just turning a profit, they will enjoy your company and you need to play the game.

The more evidence you have with a camera the better. This is a very tricky process and you must go with confidence and caution. It's about getting their trust right off the bat to be able to work your way in and through all doors. To be honest, you need to know how to read these people right off the bat and go along with their character. In essense you need to pick up their mannerism and be THEM.

If you can get evidence, then you go to the authorities with your findings. Usually, this takes some time to gain their confidence and 'befriend' them.:yuck:

Choochi
October 15th, 2009, 12:34 PM
If that bothers you that much I suggest you stop reading the classifieds. Ads like that have been common place for years. Call and ask if they have a spay neuter contract? You might as well call all the other ads with the same question and I bet 80% of them will say no.

This could be a large scale breeding operation, but it doesn't automatically mean all dogs live in horrible conditions. Nothing illegal about breeding lots of dogs as long as their basic needs are met. OSPCA likely won't do anything unless you know for a fact that the dogs' basic needs are not being met. This could also be a puppy broker.

allfurlove
October 15th, 2009, 12:40 PM
Yes unfortunately there is not much you can do without visiting there to see if the conditions are bad. If you do you will have to play stupid and act like you want a pup, dont mention contracts or anything like that or they could catch on. Take a friend with you.

Dog Dancer
October 15th, 2009, 02:49 PM
Okay, points taken. I guess the only real option is to talk hubby into a trip to look at some puppies. He was upset at the thought that somebody would be breeding that many dogs and what conditions they might be living in. So maybe.... At the least we could maybe drive by and see what it looks like to start with. Tks guys for calming me down to reality a bit. But it still walks like a duck! Allfurlove, the acting stupid part will be the easy part.

Melinda
October 15th, 2009, 03:09 PM
call the spca dogdancer, sounds like a broker to me.......ask them what you can do and also report the ads to them and to the paper

allfurlove
October 15th, 2009, 09:48 PM
I just thought of something...If there is an address on the ads, I would call, pretending to be interested in the pups, and ask if the parent(s) are there too. If they say yes, call the spca and explain the situation. They should at least check the address in their computers and see if any (adult) dogs are licensed at that address. If there are not, then they'll check into things. What is the max number of dogs you can have there without having a kennel license? If there are more dogs/breeds in the ads than what they have licensed and the law allows, then that might be grounds for them to do an inspection.

Dee-O-Gee
October 15th, 2009, 11:42 PM
You should try and google search the the telephone number. Do it like 604-123-4567. I've done this many times and brings up history of the number not to mention links and comments. :shrug:

Dog Dancer
October 16th, 2009, 02:22 PM
Well how things have developed here. On looking farther I see that they are a doggie store/day care/boutique. They have a website (deleted by OP) it is very interesting. Says they are very selective of the people they buy their dogs from and which breeders they will use. They don't deal with puppy mill dogs or brokers - they say. They have a list as long as my arm of the puppies they can sell you, as well as the occasional dog up for adoption. Anyhow, I guess I will have to drive out there one day with hubby and take a look at their setup. Puppy mills I get, but the broker thing I guess I'm not clear on. Would this not make them kind of a broker?? What's the difference between a broker and a pet store?? Please take a look at their site and let me know what you think.

kandy
October 19th, 2009, 02:36 PM
Well, IMO if a person sells a dog to a broker - they aren't in the business of breeding to further the breed. Any reputable breeder wants to know exactly who the pup goes to - with a broker, they have no control over who ultimately buys the puppy. So even if this place isn't breeding the dogs themselves, chances are they are supporting puppy mills and selling puppy mill dogs. Brokers are the ones that provide the dogs for the pet stores most times - a dog that comes from a broker is no different than buying from a pet store IMO.

I know that in the US, any person involved in the commercial selling of a dog is required to have a license through the USDA. IMO this 'license' isn't worth the paper its printed on because there are no inspectors to make sure that any breeder or broker is following the laws, which are again just basic necessities. But pet stores will use the fact that the breeder/broker is licensed as a way to imply that there are quality controls.

Whether the broker or the breeder themselves, you'll have to prove that the dogs are being kept in conditions that are against the law. The bad thing here is that even if you find that this broker is violating the law and get him/her shut down - the mills that the puppy's come from are still going to be in operation.

Bailey_
October 19th, 2009, 02:58 PM
I recognized that link you gave us. Here's another thread about the same place DD. Check this thread out.

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=813088

BenMax
October 19th, 2009, 02:59 PM
Kandy is bang on right here.

Actually, I have come to find out that a pound can sell breeding permits...and that particular pound also has pet stores (so I wonder where they get the pups...:frustrated:) And just to add salt to this wound, they also gas dogs not claimed. Now how is that for you? Unbelieveable!:frustrated:

BenMax
October 19th, 2009, 03:02 PM
Oh boy - just opened the link and all I saw was Morkie...so enough said. These are not reputable breeders.

Dog Dancer
October 19th, 2009, 04:10 PM
Interesting, I never saw Shibamom's thread - sorry to open an old wound. That said, now I wonder if the SPCA did go in or not??

I notice that the link to their website was removed in the previous thread, should a Mod take it out of my thread also - for legal reasons???

Tks.

Bailey_
October 19th, 2009, 04:31 PM
Interesting, I never saw Shibamom's thread - sorry to open an old wound. That said, now I wonder if the SPCA did go in or not??

I notice that the link to their website was removed in the previous thread, should a Mod take it out of my thread also - for legal reasons???

Tks.

Possibly, if that was why it was removed in the last thread. Obviously there is already concern there. I'd just contact your local SPCA and ask about them, inquire if there was ever a complaint made. At least then you'll be able to know if anything happened. Of course IMO, if the website is still up, they're still going strong.

growler~GateKeeper
October 20th, 2009, 01:46 AM
I notice that the link to their website was removed in the previous thread, should a Mod take it out of my thread also - for legal reasons???

Within 5 days of posting you can edit your own post, scroll back up click the edit button, & just delete the link :pawprint:

Dog Dancer
October 20th, 2009, 11:41 AM
Thanks Growler - I never knew that! I removed it just in case, although I would rather give them bad publicity.

Bailey_
October 20th, 2009, 12:15 PM
DogDancer, have you asked your SPCA about them yet at all?

Dog Dancer
October 21st, 2009, 01:56 PM
Bailey, I haven't had a chance yet, they don't have an SPCA in that city, but I will be calling the Surrey BC branch and asking if they've inspected them yet.

Bailey_
October 21st, 2009, 03:08 PM
Cool DogDancer, keep us posted!! :D