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De-Barking a Dog

pattycakes
August 21st, 2004, 10:20 AM
I was reading the Toronto Star recently and noticed a classified ad for a golden
that stated the dog was "debarked". Does this mean what I think it means? Has this poor animal actually had surgery to stop it from barking? How sick is that?

:confused:

Goldenmom
August 21st, 2004, 10:36 AM
I was reading the Toronto Star recently and noticed a classified ad for a golden
that stated the dog was "debarked". Does this mean what I think it means? Has this poor animal actually had surgery to stop it from barking? How sick is that?

:confused:


Yes it does mean that! And it is EXTREMELY sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vets should be ashamed of themselves for doing this to a dog!

Heather and her 3 Golden Girls

pattycakes
August 21st, 2004, 10:43 AM
I know I shouldn't ask this but here goes - what exactly do they do to debark a dog?
What kind of a vet would do this to a dog, especially a golden?
Our puppy loves to bark at sirens, bells etc., but we just joke that we can never watch tv with sirens, bells, dogs barking etc., (quick change the channel).
Just when I think humans can't get any sicker, I am unfortunately proved wrong.

Goldenmom
August 21st, 2004, 10:49 AM
I believe it is done by surgery to sever the vocal cords. There may be more educated people here on that subject than me. I really don't want to read about it if they do post!

On another note, I saw that Golden in the paper. 7-yrs old and $1500.00. That de-barking must be worth millions!

Heather

Writing4Fun
August 21st, 2004, 11:26 AM
Just took a quick gander on the 'net. Apparently the surgery involves partially severing and/or partially removing the vocal cords (which tool they use and how much cord they remove depends on the vet). According to the folks who wrote the articles I read, this does not completely remove the dog's ability to bark, it deminishes the volume of the bark. It also may not be permanent. Some dogs actually develop scar tissue that winds up increasing the volume of their bark (how's that for a kick in the pants?! :eek: ).

There are lots of pros and cons out there to be scrutinized. One of the biggest "pros" I kept coming across was that it was a "humane" alternative to having a problem barker pts or dumped at a shelter. Like declawing, I guess this is up to personal choice. I, personally, don't agree with it. My neighbor's dogs (a Beagle mix and a Chow mix) bark incessantly when they let them out at (sigh!) 5:30 in the blessed AM. I wish my neighbors would train the dogs a little better :rolleyes: - but never debark them.

I was a little surprised to see how many breed clubs and even an AKC show judge actually advocate the procedure, though. I wonder what the CKC thinks about it...

glasslass
August 21st, 2004, 01:52 PM
I've seen pictures of injuries caused by those anti-bark collars that some people use. The dog receives an electrical shock when they bark, which can cause burns to the neck. Surgery and shocking collars seem to be the "quick fix" some people embrace who don't want to take the time and effort to retrain the behavior. Unfortunately for the dog, there are marketers who exploit this laziness to make lots of money from it. :mad:

goldenblaze
August 21st, 2004, 01:58 PM
I don't agree with debarking but I will tell you that my groomer has her dogs done and had to see a vet in Cornwall no vets in our area will do it.
Writing4fun is right for how the surgery is done I know this only from asking my groomer, it sounds like the dog has a cold it is a rough bark but I tell you the dog still can be heard. I think it is mean and wonder why people do thing that change their dog, barking is their way of talking and I love it when my boys talk to me. :)

pattycakes
August 21st, 2004, 02:41 PM
Thanks for the information. It seems the īnstant gratification" world we live in just can't take the time to train or work with the dog. Just operate - presto -
problem gone. After they've had dog 7 years, now they want to unload at a cost of $1500 - makes you wonder doesn't it? :eek:

glasslass
August 21st, 2004, 03:14 PM
I would rather have the regular bark.

Although there are some people I would love to do that too!!! :D


Oh Laura! What a perfect sentiment! :D Agree with you! :D

wAggie
August 22nd, 2004, 11:14 PM
omg, at times i'll be First to admit my dogs can bark LOUD, and it can get a little more than annoying...

but i would NEVER EVER de-bark my dogs

NEVER



it's their VOICE... how cruel is that to de-bark a dog... i can't believe that. it totally grosses me out. :mad:

Shae
August 22nd, 2004, 11:33 PM
The veterinarian I "USED" to work for debarked his own dog. It was upsetting, the poor thing struggling to find its voice. It still had a bark.....well, more of a hoarse throaty quiet woof. The dog suffered for quite awhile post surgery and the said vet had to practice on cadaviars which made me ill to begin with!!! I believe he regretted his decision for sometime afterwards and tried to disuade people from doing it.....however, money talks and if people want it, they get it.

Luba
August 22nd, 2004, 11:36 PM
Are you kidding me?
The veterinarian I "USED" to work for debarked his own dog

wAggie
August 22nd, 2004, 11:40 PM
sick, sick sick!

this is animal cruelty in my eyes. :mad:


so there's a young offender/ delinquin/someone with bad ideas/ HITLER. i, ahem, wouldn't de-bark them!

Shae
August 23rd, 2004, 01:11 AM
Not a joke...he did it. I'm ashamed to admit I assisted in that surgery. It was his 1st too!!!! He had to practice on the cadaviers.....sick is right!
I no longer work for this man

Luba
August 23rd, 2004, 01:55 AM
Ah Shae thats disgusting, they shouldn't be allowed to do that or declawing..whats wrong with them smh

TalonsMa
August 23rd, 2004, 11:00 AM
To de-bark is so cruel I believe! I was talking to a neighbor I;ve never sponen to before (as I was walking our new puppy by her house, and she came out to say hi), anyways, she told me they have a miniature pincher and that they got him de-barked, but he still makes nise (imagine that :mad: ) and they are going to get it done again!?! I mean what the hell!!!

SSAC
August 24th, 2004, 12:28 AM
Heard of a vet who de barked a dog and sent it home with a "slice" in it's trachea. The dog died. Heard that the vet was suspended for a couple of weeks. (this was some years ago)...............DISGUSTING, should have been struck off. :mad:

(I never worked for him and unfortunately can't say who it is. I have a friend who tells people to "keep looking", when people tell her that they were "thinking of going there")

If you don't want a dog that "barks"....get a Basenji or don't get a dog.

My Schnauzer NEVER shuts up, but hey, she's a schnauzer. (enougth said)
Wouldn't change it for anything. :D

I was told that Police dogs are de-barked. sad :(

Freyja
August 24th, 2004, 12:54 AM
I would never de-bark a dog! When looking for a dog I researched the breeds most likely not to be barky. When I found Lindy she was very quiet amongst lots of barking dogs. That is one of the reasons why I chose her. Beside the fact that she is beautiful!! She has been very quiet at home too, she barks occasionally when the neighborhood dogs start up but never at other dogs when we are walking and only once at the next door neighbor until she was introduced. I say if you don't want a barking dog, do your homework, make good choices and spend lots of time with your dog so they don't become nusience barkers.

iRONKNiGHT
August 24th, 2004, 05:44 AM
If you debark an animal you should be more than happy to have your vocal cords cut..
if you declaw an animal you should be more than happy to have the tips of your fingers remove since animals uses their nails more so than humans.

Exodus 21:22
23: And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24: Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot

SSAC
August 24th, 2004, 07:54 PM
ironknight..................here, here!!!! Well said dude.

Bill & Bob
August 24th, 2004, 08:04 PM
I wonder how these same people who have this done to their dogs would react if you straight faced asked them when they were going to have their kids done too? I mean why not? They wail and cry and make noise..

There's no moral or ethical justification for taking away the ability to communicate from an oh so obviously social animal.

Why get a dog if you don't want the whole package? Why not get it's butt sewn shut if you don't want to pick up poop?

wAggie
August 25th, 2004, 05:52 PM
I was told that Police dogs are de-barked. sad :(


LUba, is this true???!

anyone??! :eek:

iRONKNiGHT
August 25th, 2004, 06:11 PM
Police dog's are not de-barked!

Reasons people debark a dog

All Bite, No Bark
Constantine von Hoffman, a freelance journalist based in Boston, Mass., ran across this story: "A bill banning the surgical silencing of pets is headed for the New Jersey state senate. The state assembly unanimously approved the so-called "debarking" measure Monday.

"The bill's sponsors say the procedure is being used by drug dealers who use silent watchdogs as 'stealth weapons,' while owners of noisy dogs have the surgery done for their own convenience.

"Veterinarians who perform the operation without cause and those who pay them could face up to five years in prison and $15,000 in fines."

Ohio recently went through a similar legislative battle. There, a dog known to be vicious or owning a vicious debarked dog is a fourth-degree felony. It carries a penalty of six to 18 months in jail and a $5,000 fine. A debarked vicious dog must be put to death by a licensed veterinarian, the county dog warden, or the county humane society within 90 days.

State Rep. Lynn Olman, a Maumee Republican, sponsored the original version of the bill. "It's a good safety measure," he said, adding that county dog wardens will investigate only if they receive a complaint.

Increasing numbers of debarked dogs are being used for dog fighting in the Toledo and Cleveland areas, Olman said. Silencing the dogs helps hide the illegal activity.

if you would like to further your reading
there's many laws being put in placed in USA
http://www.thevoicefordogs.org/CA-SB-1060.shtml
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=857487

good news!
It is now illegal to debark dogs in New Jersey. Thanks to Governor James E. McGreevey, the legislation was signed into law last November. Violators face up to five years in prison.

RuffNTumble
August 25th, 2004, 07:09 PM
I don't know about you all, but I LOVE the way my dog barks! Maybe it's because she's a big girl (she's gained 5 pounds!!! I am SO happy, only 15 to go!!! yay!) and she has that deep, protective "i'm gonna get you, sucka" bark that is so reassuring to me. I don't live in a bad neighbourhood by any means, but I know that if anything comes near my house that my dog doesn't like, she lets me know by barking and going directly towards the noise. She's a neo mastiff, and they are born protectors. What kind of protector would she feel like if all she could do was yelp. I've heard debarked dogs before, and it makes me want to cry.
It's not hard to train your dog not to bark. We've only had her three weeks, and she used to bark at EVERYTHING, now, only at the things that matter. If you take the time, there's no excuse.
It's a sad reality that most of the animals dumped in shelters are there due to lack of training from their owners, but I don't feel it's an excuse to advocate debarking.

People are using this as a short-cut to properly training their dogs, and that's sad. Maybe we should de-voice babies and children who cry all the time. I find that annoying. How about people who shout on their cell phones? How about seagulls by the ocean? Come on, people! Declawing, cropping ears, docking tails, de-barking... this all sounds like mutilation, and these are our pets, we're supposed to love them? Is that how you show love? By slashing their vocal chords???

(off the soapbox)

SSAC
August 26th, 2004, 12:52 PM
Thanks for clarifing the police dogs. It makes me happy to know that this is not done to them :)

I really wish that Canada would overhaul their laws, it's sad to think of an animal as property. My TV is property, my pets are living, breathing, pain feeling loves!

happydogs
August 26th, 2004, 05:17 PM
our neighbor has a dog that has been debarked and I agree it sounds awful, like a raspy heavy exhale. When we got our first dog we were living in a condo and the poor guy would wail and bark like you wouldnt believe when he was left alone - separation anxiety. We took some time off work to try and alleviate the problem however many of neighbors were understandably less patient than us and I had a real problem with using a shock collar. One neighbor had mentioned to us about a citronella collar, which we ended up using. It's much more expensive than a shock collar ($225+) but is much more humane. It's a little box attached to a collar that has a diaphragm in it and the vibration from the dogs bark triggers the release of a mist of citronella scent which dogs generally dont like. In our testing stage our guy emptied the collar in a few minutes of continuous barking but once he calmed down we refilled it and tried again. This time he started with a low muffled yip that didnt set the collar off and gradually increased the volume of the barks until it did go off. Interestingly when it did go off he let out an exasperated groan and laid down never to bark unnecessarily again! Granted he was a quick learner as it has not worked on our second guy, he seems to like the smell! Luckily we are now in a house so we have the luxury of time to train the new one!

BamaRama
August 27th, 2004, 08:44 AM
Oh my God...that is so horrible!!

When we went to get our Chi's on Tuesday from The Toronto Humane Society, there was a Pit Bull there named Jessie, she was so cute, we went to look at her in her pen, and she was barking...but...not barking:( It was this horrible raspy sound, and it sounded like she had a cold or something...Now I know better! :(

How cruel can you be?!

Who could we write to in Canada to make de-barking a crime? Or would it be a provincial thing?

debanneball
August 27th, 2004, 09:42 AM
THAT'S SO CRUEL!!! :mad:

wAggie
August 30th, 2004, 07:27 PM
um... i didn't see a clear answer to the police debarking their dogs in toronto/ontario... did i?

all i saw was new jersey. :confused:


HAPPYDOGS, i can relate!

i put the muzzle on Honey so many times the instant she would start barking, she now has this ultra annoying low-key bark/whine/growl.... that i LOVE :o

of course, she'll do her FIRST bark, and the rest is quiet. its interesting to see her NEED to make sounds... :rolleyes: but i GReatly appreciate her respect to MY need for "silence" ;)

heidiho
August 30th, 2004, 07:32 PM
That has to be the sickest thing you could do to an animal,that should be illegal......