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Rant...Sorry lol

Lyrical44
September 30th, 2009, 04:12 PM
Ok, I havent been here for a week yet, and I gotta say that it upsets me a little to see some of the opinions. I know, I know, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but sometimes I think there is a little narrowmindedness.

I DO NOT support puppy mills, I think that dogs raised in small cages and filthy conditions deserve WAY more.
I have seen, with my own eyes some FILTHY puppy mills, and I loathe the dusgusting people who would subject their dogs and puppies to such dispicable conditions.

HOWEVER that being said, NOT everyone who breeds their dogs, unregistered, unpapered dogs, is a puppy mill.

We occasionally breed our small dogs, well my mothers dogs, and they are HEALTHY dogs, but they arent papered and I suppose we are what you would call "back yard breeders" or so I have seen it called.
So I guess what I am saying is that, because Im not a "reputable breeder" that doesnt make me a bad person. There are lots of people who breed their dogs, small and big, simply because they want to, or because they can.

Our puppies, all of them, have gone to GREAT homes, they work in hospitals, they work for meals on wheels, they represent breast cancer, they work in salons, and stores. The puppies we "back door breeders" sold were not for profit, the money from the puppies went DIRECTLY back into the parent dogs.

I apologize for this little rant, but I guess what I am trying to say is that NOT EVERY person who breeds their dogs, without papers, who isnt reputable, is a bad person.

I fight for animal wel-fare, I support the shelters here, I donate, I take in animals in need. I consider myself a good person, but it seems like because I *occasionally* breed my dogs, that lots me in with mills, disgusting, disgraceful people. I feel hurt and slightly angered.

sugarcatmom
September 30th, 2009, 04:40 PM
There are lots of people who breed their dogs, small and big, simply because they want to, or because they can.


Just because someone WANTS to do something, or CAN do something, doesn't mean they SHOULD.

Please read this link: http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/byb.htm

Lyrical44
September 30th, 2009, 04:44 PM
That wasnt what I was getting at. The WANT and CAN is something that puppy mills do.

The ability and knowledge of health, is what separates others from a mill or a BYB. If your breeding your dogs, and you dont care about their health or anything other than money its wrong.

What upsets me, is the assumption that without being reputable there are alot of good, knowledgeable breeders who are getting lotted in with BAD people

mafiaprincess
September 30th, 2009, 05:42 PM
Healthy. As in gee my vet says so.. Or I actually did the appropriate tests per breed.

Former.. byb. Latter.. making an attempt to better the breed.

Shaykeija
September 30th, 2009, 05:48 PM
Hmmm...this is a very pro spay and neuter board. To say that you are breeding your dogs just pi$$es people off. I rescue small dogs and am exposed to all sorts of "Breeders". Some I support..show dogs,working dogs and others I don't. I am not trying to be rude, but there are a lot of deserving dogs that are in shelters. 2 of mine can visit hospitals and nursing homes. And I have 4. A few of us here have sacrificed a lot to save our dogs. I cannot remember when the last time I got my teeth cleaned, but I can tell you my dogs have had theirs done because they were so bad. I have gone without a new winter jacket because one needed surgery. Yes, we may be vocal about back yard breeders, but that is because we are in the front lines saving other animal lives. There is no need to bring more puppies into this world. Did you know some dogs that wind up in shelters are sold to labs to be experimented on then killed? Do you know how many healthy animals are killed each year in the shelters? Every time we hear of a "back yard breeder" our hearts bleed a little more.

TwinTails
September 30th, 2009, 05:53 PM
What upsets me, is the assumption that without being reputable there are alot of good, knowledgeable breeders who are getting lotted in with BAD people

Deffinitions of Reputable:

- having a good reputation; "a reputable business"; "a reputable scientist"; "a reputable wine"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

- Having a good reputation; honourable
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reputable

So are you saying you have a good reputation for breeding dogs? Or not? I'm confused :confused:

Also, are you breeding purebred dogs? Or designer mixes? Were the dogs you've bred purebred, health tested, OFA & CERF tested, Championships of any kind? Did they ever have any of this in their bloodline? Are you attempting to better the breed, or just making cute puppies? Are those puppies bred? Did those babies have babies, etc?

I realize that not everyone likes to breed to certain standards (show dogs vs working dogs, etc), so that's not what I am talking about. Cute puppies exsist everywhere. You have been missing the point if you are insulted. You said that you had Ben's Mom and pups, was that a planned breeding, or an oops? Did all those pups get neutered? What about the mom?

Back yard breeders may not have bad intentions, but ignorance is no deffence either.

:2cents:

14+kitties
September 30th, 2009, 06:20 PM
Oh darn. I hate to be rude to members who seem to want to stick around and be a regular member. Let's see if I can avoid it.

Ontario's SPCA's definition of a byb..........
Backyard breeder: An owner whose pet may have an unplanned litter by accident, or who breeds on purpose. Common reasons cited include: making extra money, mistakenly believing every dog should have a litter, letting the children witness "the miracle of birth," or because they think their dog would make cute puppies. The animals involved are generally not tested for health or genetic problems, and typically there is no thought to where the puppies will go. They are the single greatest cause of pet overpopulation. Many are sold locally through newspaper ads.


When you adopt the puppies to their furever homes do you have a contract signed stating that if for any reason the person can not keep the dog your mother gets it back? Do you have a s/n contract signed? If not then chances are the puppies your mother's dog(s) have had are also being bred, therefore creating more back yard breeders.

Do you know what your stats are for the HS in your area for rehoming/adopting dogs? Do you know what their euthanization percentage is? If it is not zero than no one IMO should be breeding their dogs. No one.

My "thing" is actually cats although I do have two dogs. Don't ask me the stats on the euthanization on cats. Or yes, please do. Because I can tell you what they are for this area. Dogs do not have the same numbers but it is still much more than it should be.

Please, stick around, learn, see why we get on our "high horse" when someone comes in and talks about breeding dogs/cats or having a pregnant pet. Realize that for every single pup that is born to a byb, unintentionally or not, one is euthanized at a HS because there is no home for it. :sad: Learn why we cry every single day for those pups, those kittens, those dogs, those cats. Go to your HS, look into the eyes of a pup that is about to be euthanized for lack of space. Cry along with us. Learn why....... just learn.

aslan
September 30th, 2009, 07:41 PM
Lyrical,, I can understand why you wouldn't want to be linked with a puppymill, and from what you describe i wouldn't call you that..

Lets see if i can explain some of our positions without offending. Why we get upset is there are many members here who devote their time, money, tears etc to try and save as many animals as they can..So someone coming in, i'm going to assume it was the hybrid convo you were reading) and try and convince someone with over 30 cats that it's ok to just breed anything together is ok cause people want it is upsetting. Ideally we would love for no animals,mutt, purebred, kitty etc be bred until the numbers in the shelter are decreased dramatically.

I may be speaking out of line, but what i think upsets most of us is, someone coming on saying they have bred their animal without a clue as to what to do if say something goes wrong durring the delivery. Have no idea about the birthing process, etc, etc. Animals die this way, them hmmm the surviving babies end up say in an abusive home, a home that doesn't fix them so they make more babies, or they end up in a high kill shelter, or as someone else said a lab experiment. This is high on the what upsets us list. It really isn't neccessary for peoples children to experience the miracle of birth at the sake of their pet.

Frenchy
September 30th, 2009, 08:32 PM
Ontario's SPCA's definition of a byb..........
Backyard breeder: An owner whose pet may have an unplanned litter by accident, or who breeds on purpose. Common reasons cited include: making extra money, mistakenly believing every dog should have a litter, letting the children witness "the miracle of birth," or because they think their dog would make cute puppies. The animals involved are generally not tested for health or genetic problems, and typically there is no thought to where the puppies will go. They are the single greatest cause of pet overpopulation. Many are sold locally through newspaper ads.




..... while thousands get euthanize in shelters , just because , there's too many of them .....

ONLY reputable breeders should breed .... that's it , that's all.

14+kitties
September 30th, 2009, 08:33 PM
Just wanted to add a little more....
Maybe this will help you understand our position.
Walk with us…
As Lucky Penny fosters yet another hard to place pup or just one who needs help, spending her time and resources to turn that dog into a wonderful, loving, trusting pet;
As Shaykeija rescues another older Shih Tzu who has been dumped at a shelter for no other reason but it is getting old, family has no time for it;
As Love4himmies fosters a mom and litter of kittens and cries when she visits those kittens later while awaiting adoption, wishing she could take them back home;
As Frenchy agonizes over finding a home for the dogs she fosters, sometimes keeping them for a long, long time, and adopts more, but still keeps that wonderful spirit she has;
As Chico watches her feral kitty cross a very busy road every day to get to the food she puts out for him, the only kindness he is shown, ever;
As lUvMyLaB<3 brings another family of tiny baby kittens to her home, watching over them, hoping they make it through the night, watching some of them die for no reason;
As BenMax pulls dogs about to be euthanized every single week, sometimes every single day and fights to find those dogs homes where they can live out their remaining days in peace;
As Melinda tries to find a way to bring injustice to light without causing strife;
As Winston and her partner in crime Sylvie find another German Shepard who needs help;
As so many many more of us do everything we can to make sure all dogs and cats are treated with the dignity they deserve. There are a lot of members who I have not mentioned because if I did this could go on forever.
Then maybe you can begin to understand why we get upset when we hear about someone breeding their dog purposely.

Lyrical44
October 1st, 2009, 12:56 AM
I am not saying its wrong to get upset. What I am saying is that no EVERY person who breeds their dog, and yes i do understand there are multitudes of dogs in the shelter, but not everyone who breeds their dog on purpose is a bad person. Example.

A friend of my mothers was looking for a pomeranian, one she could trust to be healthy, one she knew was going to come from a good reputable source. My mother had had puppy requests from several other people as well. So we pred our pomernaians, healthy, happy, clean well cared for puppies. There were 3 puppies from that litter. 1 does hospital visits to children who are not going to make it, for kids who wont live to see 15. Another is a spokes puppy for breast cancer, which is a subject close to my heart because any cancer research is a step in the right direction and my grandma has cancer, and the third puppy is, although not as big a job, the third puppy is a shop puppy.
All three are well taken care of, and all three are healthy.

I dont advocate breeding without knowledge, I think that if you have no idea what to do when the birthing goes wrong, or if the pregnancy seems off, then you shouldnt have ever considered breeding your dog.

Ben's mom, Chloe is a good example of BAD breeding. She belonged to my ex, and when we split, he took her. But of course he was supposed to get her fixed, and didnt, and i pestered him to get her fixed, and he didnt, and then she went missing for 2 hours, and came back pregnant. He didnt know what to do, and I ended up with 9 puppies. 9 of them, which could have been prevented with his responsibility. Thankfully Chloe was not a puppy, but she shouldnt have ever been bred at all, and of the 9 puppies there is 1, I am unhappy to say, but only 1 that has been rehomed through the original buyer. They have been fixed, all but 2, mine and a friends, and Bennie and Capone are both on the "fix list" for their 1st birthdays.

Some people are wrong, and irresponsible. Not everyone is.

We dont breed our dogs anymore, we just dont. The shelters around here have a VERY low kill rate, and are rarely full, you NEVER see the same dogs in there, and the cats are always different as well. Maybe thats why it doesnt phase on me the difference you are trying to get across.

I do however understand "rescue" I have had about...oh say 70 different dogs and cats come in and out of my home over the years. I know what "rescue" is, I know how hard it is to look into the eyes of a dog you cant save when its being put to sleep. I know how many cats I see running around my neighbourhood, and I know how many cats are killed. I am NOT oblivious to the pain and suffering, and I cry every day too for animals lost.

However not everyone is bad....they just arent

aslan
October 1st, 2009, 05:11 AM
Lyrical, we didn't say everyone was bad for breeding,, just right now they are unneccessary..the beautiful pom your aunt wanted. they could have adopted little Jack that Frenchy was fostering or any of the 1000's you can find in one rescue or another..You're lucky that where you are that animals are rescued so quickly. I'm in Toronto and the animals here aren't so lucky...

Now adays you can't even use the " its too far excuse". I have seen a kitty transfered from Quebec to Grimsby to it's new home..L4 and several others relay a beautiful pittie through a province that would kill her, just to get her to a safe home. Lp's lovely Emma was flown to calgary from quebec so she would stand a better chance at adoption. I myself went to meet a pupper for a member here to check out her tempermant, then Otter drove 12hrs one way just to pick up lovely nollie. Winston/sylvie and Shirley relayed a lovely gsd to one of our members in the states. There is no excuse right now for ANYONE to breed.

Yes there are responsible back yard breeders just as there are responsible purebred breeders. What we're saying is stop breeding for awhile so the shelters are emptied out some... And the breeders of the flavor of the month designer breeds,,, stop breeding period. Call it what ever you want, but a mutt is a mutt is a mutt.

Melinda
October 1st, 2009, 05:49 AM
my sis in law just adopted a pure bred Pom from a rescue, 3 yrs old, health checked, behavioral tested, she's a great all around dog, she was from a byb that decided she'd had enough litters. 300 dollars was all she cost. In a pound she would have been euthanized because of over population. My own dog Brina was from a byb, he bred his dogs because "they were so well mannered and he needed xmas money", I called to ask about his ridiculous price on mixed breed black dogs and he blasted me, a week later he called my number and asked for help, he had to get rid of all 8 pups within a week or they were on their way to the pound (no spca where he lived), I put out an all out bulletin on the board I was on at the time, adopted my Brina and helped place the other 7. Brina is a wonderful daycare doggie and I thank god for her, but it could have turned out differently for the 8 pups had I not inquired about the price of his "mutts" do you understand where I'm going? because I placed 8 black mutt pups, 8 others were probably euthanized in pounds.....

14+kitties
October 1st, 2009, 06:42 AM
The shelters around here have a VERY low kill rate, and are rarely full, you NEVER see the same dogs in there, and the cats are always different as well. Maybe thats why it doesnt phase on me the difference you are trying to get across.

Are you sure about that? I just googled Huntsville shelters. Just refreshing the home page every few seconds I found quite a few animals that have been there quite some time. Lincoln - Nov 21 2008 for one. Something else that disturbs me is they don't s/n: the animals. They have them advertised as not spayed or neutered. :frustrated:
http://www.animals-huntsville.on.ca/index.html

I would venture to say you never see the same dogs or cats in there because if they aren't adopted or are deemed unadoptable they are put down. Plain and simple.

Love4himies
October 1st, 2009, 07:25 AM
Just wanted to add a little more....
Maybe this will help you understand our position.
Walk with us…
As Lucky Penny fosters yet another hard to place pup or just one who needs help, spending her time and resources to turn that dog into a wonderful, loving, trusting pet;
As Shaykeija rescues another older Shih Tzu who has been dumped at a shelter for no other reason but it is getting old, family has no time for it;
As Love4himmies fosters a mom and litter of kittens and cries when she visits those kittens later while awaiting adoption, wishing she could take them back home;
As Frenchy agonizes over finding a home for the dogs she fosters, sometimes keeping them for a long, long time, and adopts more, but still keeps that wonderful spirit she has;
As Chico watches her feral kitty cross a very busy road every day to get to the food she puts out for him, the only kindness he is shown, ever;
As lUvMyLaB<3 brings another family of tiny baby kittens to her home, watching over them, hoping they make it through the night, watching some of them die for no reason;
As BenMax pulls dogs about to be euthanized every single week, sometimes every single day and fights to find those dogs homes where they can live out their remaining days in peace;
As Melinda tries to find a way to bring injustice to light without causing strife;
As Winston and her partner in crime Sylvie find another German Shepard who needs help;
As so many many more of us do everything we can to make sure all dogs and cats are treated with the dignity they deserve. There are a lot of members who I have not mentioned because if I did this could go on forever.
Then maybe you can begin to understand why we get upset when we hear about someone breeding their dog purposely.


:cry::cry:

That is exactly why.

I also cry for all those loving, healthy pets that somebody brought into this world that are euthanized every day. :rip: sweet babies :candle:

Love4himies
October 1st, 2009, 07:31 AM
I am not saying its wrong to get upset. What I am saying is that no EVERY person who breeds their dog, and yes i do understand there are multitudes of dogs in the shelter, but not everyone who breeds their dog on purpose is a bad person. Example.

A friend of my mothers was looking for a pomeranian, one she could trust to be healthy, one she knew was going to come from a good reputable source. My mother had had puppy requests from several other people as well. So we pred our pomernaians, healthy, happy, clean well cared for puppies. There were 3 puppies from that litter. 1 does hospital visits to children who are not going to make it, for kids who wont live to see 15. Another is a spokes puppy for breast cancer, which is a subject close to my heart because any cancer research is a step in the right direction and my grandma has cancer, and the third puppy is, although not as big a job, the third puppy is a shop puppy.
All three are well taken care of, and all three are healthy.

I dont advocate breeding without knowledge, I think that if you have no idea what to do when the birthing goes wrong, or if the pregnancy seems off, then you shouldnt have ever considered breeding your dog.

Ben's mom, Chloe is a good example of BAD breeding. She belonged to my ex, and when we split, he took her. But of course he was supposed to get her fixed, and didnt, and i pestered him to get her fixed, and he didnt, and then she went missing for 2 hours, and came back pregnant. He didnt know what to do, and I ended up with 9 puppies. 9 of them, which could have been prevented with his responsibility. Thankfully Chloe was not a puppy, but she shouldnt have ever been bred at all, and of the 9 puppies there is 1, I am unhappy to say, but only 1 that has been rehomed through the original buyer. They have been fixed, all but 2, mine and a friends, and Bennie and Capone are both on the "fix list" for their 1st birthdays.

Some people are wrong, and irresponsible. Not everyone is.

We dont breed our dogs anymore, we just dont. The shelters around here have a VERY low kill rate, and are rarely full, you NEVER see the same dogs in there, and the cats are always different as well. Maybe thats why it doesnt phase on me the difference you are trying to get across.

I do however understand "rescue" I have had about...oh say 70 different dogs and cats come in and out of my home over the years. I know what "rescue" is, I know how hard it is to look into the eyes of a dog you cant save when its being put to sleep. I know how many cats I see running around my neighbourhood, and I know how many cats are killed. I am NOT oblivious to the pain and suffering, and I cry every day too for animals lost.

However not everyone is bad....they just arent

I sooooooo disagree with this, they are selfish people who don't give a darn about those pets sitting in shelters. There is NOT ONE dog or cat in this world that has a mental desire to breed, they just want to be loved and cherished, it is the humans that want them to breed.

For every pet that is bred, one dies in the shelters, there is not enough homes for all of them so anybody that breeds is contributing to this, period.

Melinda
October 1st, 2009, 07:57 AM
I notice you are a very young poster, and we don't wish to scare you off, we're just trying to get you to see reason, to educate you so that you can go out and educate other, so that someday there will be no need for rescues, for shelters...all dogs will have homes. I know we always think our parents know best, but the truth of the matter is, I love my dog, she is more than a pet to me, she's my child (I'm an empty nester) she's my confidant, she knows my deepest darkest secrets and she comforts the new kids in my daycare who are lonesome for their moms. In fact, I love her so much that I had her spayed at 6 months old, I will not put her through the pain of birthing pups that will be given away, or sold as in your parents case, there is no way I'd let her go through that so that I will be left to wonder forever where the pups are, are they producing more pups that will be abused, unwanted, tied outside and living a lonely life...no, I love my dog too much ...........

Golden Girls
October 1st, 2009, 08:09 AM
There are 203,627 dogs alone available right now on petfinder, 1,626 being pomeranians. How many of those do you suppose will find good homes? How many do you suppose will be euthanized today?

No one is saying because you bred your dogs your a bad person, actually you sound very sweet and I hope you stick around. What's being said is that in doing so you are contributing to the already overpopulation problem where many on this forum alone come together to try find a home/solution even if it's one dog, one cat, gobbles of hours networking, endless really, costly and more times then not, heartbreaking.

You say your puppies all went to good homes, that's great but who overseen that those same pup's aren't still intact? Also the homes you speak of could of opened their doors to the ones at a shelter creating a spot for the next one to come in - basically saving 2 lives ... see what were saying, do you still feel it's narrowminded that some feel this way?

Melinda
October 1st, 2009, 08:11 AM
very well put GG and she does sound like a good person, opening their doors to countless rescues.

muggsmom
October 1st, 2009, 11:08 AM
The shelters around here have a VERY low kill rate, and are rarely full, you NEVER see the same dogs in there, and the cats are always different as well. Maybe thats why it doesnt phase on me the difference you are trying to get across.

Are you sure about that? I just googled Huntsville shelters. Just refreshing the home page every few seconds I found quite a few animals that have been there quite some time. Lincoln - Nov 21 2008 for one. Something else that disturbs me is they don't s/n: the animals. They have them advertised as not spayed or neutered. :frustrated:
http://www.animals-huntsville.on.ca/index.html

I would venture to say you never see the same dogs or cats in there because if they aren't adopted or are deemed unadoptable they are put down. Plain and simple.

I have adopted 2 cats and 1 dog from the Huntsville Animal Shelter over the years. They are a small shelter, but definitely no-kill. They spent over a year trying to re-home 4 pitbulls that were seized after BSL.

http://www.huntsvilleforester.com/article/58376

It has always bothered me that they do not s/n, but I know that funds are always extremely tight, so if the decision to spend the money on food/vet care or s/n, then I guess the decision is obvious. They do give you a discount coupon for s/n that the local vets honour.

There are a lot of good, caring people at the Huntsville Shelter, and I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about their no-kill status.

14+kitties
October 1st, 2009, 11:54 AM
I have adopted 2 cats and 1 dog from the Huntsville Animal Shelter over the years. They are a small shelter, but definitely no-kill. They spent over a year trying to re-home 4 pitbulls that were seized after BSL.

http://www.huntsvilleforester.com/article/58376

It has always bothered me that they do not s/n, but I know that funds are always extremely tight, so if the decision to spend the money on food/vet care or s/n, then I guess the decision is obvious. They do give you a discount coupon for s/n that the local vets honour.

There are a lot of good, caring people at the Huntsville Shelter, and I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about their no-kill status.

That is wonderful!! I in no way am putting down your shelter. But there is no way they are completely no kill. No shelter is. The shelter that serves my area is called a "no kill" too. One of the rescues I work through to get my cats fixed happens to be run by the vet who has the unpleasant job of euthanizing the dogs/cats from that shelter that 1) are sick, 2) deemed unadoptable for one reason or another, 3) there simply is no room for. A lot of the time they will take an animal who has been with them for a long time and euthanize it in order to make room for one younger with a better chance of adoption. Sad but the plain facts. If people keep on breeding this is going to keep on happening. I do believe that is the crux of this whole thread.

Bearsmom
October 1st, 2009, 12:12 PM
I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't fix their pets and continues breeding them perpetrates the problem of pets being euthanized everywhere, is a backyard breeder.

We rescued our mastiff mix at the tender age of 8 weeks old. His owner was breeding the mother and the pet shops wouldn't take the puppy as he was too big. Lucky for him, we took him in, or the owner said he was going to "dump him at the shelter". After a LOT of rehabbing him, he's now 10 years old and a wonderful dog.

Last year we rescued a purebred St. Bernard. Reason? The guy who got her from a "good" breeder wanted to get rid of her because the "good" breeder didn't tell him that St. Bernards grow quickly, drool, eat a lot, etc etc. His solution for her "care?" to dump her in the backyard at 4 months old and leave her there. We are STILL working on getting her to trust people. (amongst $4500 in vet bills JUST to get her healthy)

And I'm sorry, but what the hell is a breast cancer spokes puppy? Never heard of such a thing.

lUvMyLaB<3
October 1st, 2009, 02:05 PM
I also Don't get what a breast cancer spokespuppy is.. and am not sure why only one of your puppie could fill this role, I have a rescue dog that is a St. Johns Ambulance therapy dog, any rescue dog can fill these rolls so they are not justification for breeding.

EVERY BYB says that their dogs only went to good homes, ect..ect.. So? What should we say then? Great! keep em coming! Don't think so.. I hate to be so blunt, but what makes you so different from each and every other person that breeds their dog? The motivation actually doesn't matter, what matters is that with each and every litter, the population increase, plain and simple.. There is NO ROOM for more.

If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Breeding more dogs, regardless if you love them, and they are healthy IS part of the problem, For every pup born at least one will be killed, that is the problem, It doesn't matter that yours got great homes, what about the ones that didn't? It breaks my heart that people can have this thinking and close their eyes to the innocent animals that are killed everyday.

My opinion is that there is no justification to breed your dogs period. I am sure they are cute and make great puppies, and make someones family happy and complete, great, but so can any other puppy already here, adding any puppy to the population is selfish.

I get where you are coming from, and I don't think anyone called you a we bad person, in our opinions we are sure you can be a great person, but doing something that we feel to the abolute bottom of our beings, is wrong.

Bailey_
October 1st, 2009, 02:17 PM
I dont advocate breeding without knowledge, I think that if you have no idea what to do when the birthing goes wrong, or if the pregnancy seems off, then you shouldnt have ever considered breeding your dog.


Maybe it's just me, but I don't consider this having 'knowledge' about breeding.

Anyone can read a book or a website or talk to a friend who's done this before, and figure out the steps to take through birthing and pregnancy.

Having knowledge of breeding, to me, means ensuring there is a need for it in the first place. Period.

ancientgirl
October 1st, 2009, 02:23 PM
My fathers wife had 3 yorkies. 2 females and 1 male. For the last 3 years she's been "breeding" those dogs, and for the last 3 years whenever I have had a chance to go to their house I ask her to let me take the dogs off her hands. She's a greedy woman and I hate her, I truly hate this woman.

This is something I've never stated on this board because of the utter embarrassment to me! It doesn't matter that these dogs are inside the home, given good food, taken care of. They are being bred for profit! No living creature should be bred for profit! It's wrong!

I finally thought I had my opportunity when she said she wasn't going to keep the dogs anymore, because they weren't making her any money!:yell: I told her flat out, please call me before you take them anywhere! I begged her because I recently found out she took a min pin they had to the Humane Society, one that is not a no-kill.

What happened? She called me last week to talk to me about something, and mentioned in passing she'd sold the dogs to another woman who wants to breed!:yell::yell::yell::yell::yell::yell:

These poor animals live their lives going through this cycle over and over again. Sure, they are given good medical care, and good food etc... But what kind of a life do they have? Imagine having 3 or 4 kids, then after a few months, maybe a year, you have to have 3 or 4 more kids. On and on and on. That's not right.

BenMax
October 1st, 2009, 02:25 PM
This is a tough thread to stay away from. It's stronger than I so I must add 'my rant'.

Breeding dogs and cats because you 'can' is irresponsible. Volunteer at a shelter and specifically ask for the euthanasia room. Get those animals from their cage, hold them while the injection is administered and say good bye while they lick your hand or try desperately to get away. Truly, it is something you will never ever forget. You will take it with you until you expire...that is a fact.

Every day is death day for these animals. I personally as others have gone to pounds that gas dogs and cats. I was able help save more than 30 - and others were left behind as we were not allowed to take them....they died a horrible death... and continue to do so.

Electricution, shooting and other methods are not illegal to 'get rid' of unwanted abused, neglected and abandoned pets. There are other methods as well...not legal but it happens.

Walk in the shoes of those that know all angles of this discussion. Tell me then that it is ok to just breed randomly.

I am not as gentle as others have been here and I am sorry that I cannot find it within myself to be more cordial. The true reality is that infact, for every puppy or kitten born in this society, others die.

Breeding should be left to those that are seriously and truly maintaining a line. Breeding just because is a poor excuse to breed and it is unacceptable.

Lyrical44
October 1st, 2009, 11:12 PM
Ive held dogs being put to sleep. I know these arguements, I never said that breeding just because is allright, I said that it doesnt make you a bad person.

I can see that this thread is going to be highly controversial. I will try and close it.

I respect every person who rescues. I respect EVERY person who put in their two cents here. I think you are all WONDERFUL people. It is amazing what you do.

Lyrical44
October 2nd, 2009, 12:34 AM
I dont know how to close this post. :( I dont want to upset anyone else...I am going to educate myself.

TwinTails
October 2nd, 2009, 01:17 AM
I am sure Marko will close it for you hun :)

Lyrical44
October 2nd, 2009, 01:29 AM
Do I just leave it for him to close? Or ask??

Love4himies
October 2nd, 2009, 06:49 AM
You can pm him with a link to this thread.

Bearsmom
October 2nd, 2009, 06:53 AM
I just think that we are all very passionate about our animals and the irresponsibility that goes along with byb.

I do, however, remain firm in my belief that anyone who is a byb is a bad person, I don't care who you are.

14+kitties
October 2nd, 2009, 06:54 AM
Up to this point I don't think this thread has been controversial. I don't think it needs to be closed. I think you have been told the facts as we see them. As we live them. I truly believe you have taken those facts to heart and will now do everything in your power to help change things.
All we ask of people is that they help become part of the solution. Not be part of the problem. I think you are well on your way. I thank you for that. :thumbs up

lUvMyLaB<3
October 2nd, 2009, 07:05 AM
I agree! No need to close it. . You can just not click on it anymore, there are some great points in this thread. I too feel that every person that breeds a dog has a hand in one being killed, they are responsible, doesnt make you a bad person, just in our eyes a bad thing, many of us are very passionate in our work, we strongly believe what we believe for a reason. I am glad that you say you rescue, my rescue does not let a pet go to a home that has an unfixed animal, and never to someone that breeds. Great you found a rescue that allows you to help. . . . . . . . . . . . .

BenMax
October 2nd, 2009, 07:39 AM
Ive held dogs being put to sleep. I know these arguements, I never said that breeding just because is allright, I said that it doesnt make you a bad person.

I can see that this thread is going to be highly controversial. I will try and close it.

I respect every person who rescues. I respect EVERY person who put in their two cents here. I think you are all WONDERFUL people. It is amazing what you do.

It does not necessarily make you a 'bad' person but a naive or irresponsible person.

If you have held animals as they die, I cannot understand then why one would defend breeding dogs where the study within the line is not considered? My apologies if I come across strongly but I don't understand how this can be balanced in one's mind.

In no way do I wish to challenge you or be disrespectful. I just want to understand. I cannot help but to think of those that I could not help, and those that are being bred....and for what.

Love4himies
October 2nd, 2009, 08:16 AM
It does not necessarily make you a 'bad' person but a naive or irresponsible person.

If you have held animals as they die, I cannot understand then why one would defend breeding dogs where the study within the line is not considered? My apologies if I come across strongly but I don't understand how this can be balanced in one's mind.

In no way do I wish to challenge you or be disrespectful. I just want to understand. I cannot help but to think of those that I could not help, and those that are being bred....and for what.

I don't understand this either:confused:. It upsets me to tears just seeing all the unwanted pets when I walk into a shelter and thinking which ones are having their last day :cry:

I guess "bad" can be of various degrees. Is breeding as bad as child molestation, murder, or rape, no, of course not, but it is certainly leading to the death of many pets and is horribly selfish.

lUvMyLaB<3
October 2nd, 2009, 08:32 AM
i agree with you both. After seeing what i have seen i will always give my energy to save an animal, and could never take a home away from one. I wrestle with guilt when i have kittens to home, thinking of the cats that will die. I hate people that allow kittens to be bred! Then i have to compete with free kittens. . . .i cannot understand finding a balance between breeding a pet, and rescuing, and seeing the innocent animal killed. The one dog i held for its last moments wanted to play, thought i was there to love him, what he had been waiting for, how can that not change the life and thinking of a person?

TwinTails
October 2nd, 2009, 12:05 PM
You can PM him and ask him to close/delete it :)

Lyrical44
October 2nd, 2009, 12:33 PM
Thanks TT

Ok, I know, stop clicking the topic if I dont want to fight you on it. I alone and responsible for my words, and you are right, if this topic doesnt work to educate me, (which it already has) then it will indeed give others the ability to voice their opinions/concerns, and learn, so I have decided I wont ask someone to close it.

I dont work for a formal rescue. I dont like seeing pets go to the shelter, I dont like seeing them put to sleep because they are just "Too wild, I dont have time, no one else will either, this is better for the pet" HOW?! How is killing something better than looking for a home that works for the pet.

I used to offer a temperary home for dogs and cats that people couldnt take care of anymore. I cant do it now, because my house is small and rented, but I aparently still do anyways, I seem to have adopted a cat :S :frown: eek lol

I have this as an afterthought too, the shelter here does s/n before they allow you to take your pet home, they charge you a fee for adoption and offer a refund once the pet is fixed, but most of them are fixed at the shelter. I know this of cats for sure, and I dont know if they allow exception to the rule or not.....but I am pretty sure they s/n the cats. I dont know about dogs.

Like I said, I alone am responsible for my words, and although some may disagree with me, and I dont completely disagree with any of you, I think that any *explitive* interested in getting a pet should A) look into the breed and breeder they choose, and realize how much impreeding has been done to achieve the "perfect" breed. And Im not saying all people do this, but as a general rule thats how pure breds were originally gotten to their perfect state.

and B) I think everyone should adopt. EVERYONE I mean you see all these people on kijiji.ca who want cheap or free cats and dogs, HELLO look at your local shelter, they are having SALES for gods sake. Stop searching the interwebs (hehe lolcats...sorry) and go to the SPCA or shelter or rescue...

I stand for a cause too, I really do...I would defend any animal to my last breath, and have more than once gotten myself into a dreadful situation in their defence, but sometimes I feel a little lost.

You know...there are just as many children who need to be adopted, and just as many kids in fosterhomes...and the ONLY country to do something about this over population....is frowned upon. This might be more controversial than the dog breeding, but because of the amount of children needing homes, should people stop breeding too? Its connected....think about it...It makes me cry too...it all does.

lUvMyLaB<3
October 2nd, 2009, 12:43 PM
actually I just get ticked when people bring up comparing to kids. Should people stop breeding, probably, however, people CHOOSE to bring pets into their lives therefore taking responsibility. There are countless agencies taking charge and trying to help kids in need. More than there are for animals.. Because there is a human problem does not mean the animal one is less important or should be ignored. People can choose their cause, if you want to help animals, great, humans great, but one is not less needed because of another and therefore although the problems in some cases are similar, they are NOT related.

14+kitties
October 2nd, 2009, 12:55 PM
You can not ever compare animals to people. Ever. Why do people continue to feel this way?
People are a free thinking intelligent entity. Or at least they are supposed to be. If they "go into heat" they can choose to do something about it (have intercourse or other methods, to each his own) or they can ignore it till it goes away.
We put ourselves in the position we are in. Animals can not think that clearly.
When an animal goes into heat they focus on one thing and one thing only. Finding a source to ease that heat. The only way it can be eased is to find a mate. Or a mate finds them. They don't "choose" to go into heat. They just do. Are you aware that a cat can be very ill, close to death, and if in heat their body forces them to mate? Basically at that point when they are so sick they can't do anything to fight back they are raped. So sad.
Please do not try to tell me that a human has the same problems. It just does not happen.
I am so glad this thread has taught you something. Our job is done. :thumbs up