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puppy broker

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 05:35 AM
this is a tricky question, is it legal to be a puppy broker in ontario, I've the name and addy of a girl and her boyfriend that get pups in Quebec and sell them on line or to petshops, families etc. Is there anything I can do to stop it? I know for a fact that this couple is on welfare and of course not claiming the income. Now for the tricky part, her common law hubby/boyfriend is my first cousin................any suggestions would be welcomed.

Golden Girls
September 29th, 2009, 07:12 AM
this is a tricky question, is it legal to be a puppy broker in ontario, I've the name and addy of a girl and her boyfriend that get pups in Quebec and sell them on line or to petshops, families etc. Is there anything I can do to stop it? I know for a fact that this couple is on welfare and of course not claiming the income. Now for the tricky part, her common law hubby/boyfriend is my first cousin................any suggestions would be welcomed.It's not illegal to be a puppy broker ie buy/sell property :frustrated: but you can send off an anonymous email to the welfare investigation dept in their city :shrug: How horrible to be related to him, must be very frustrating knowing all that you know ... then learn of this :2huggers:

Golden Girls
September 29th, 2009, 07:24 AM
Afterthought, if you decide going this route I can use one of my bogus email addresses - that way there would be no connection to you. I believe the gov't does take unclaimed earnings seriously. That would be one way to try and do something to stop them from selling puppies :shrug:

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 07:26 AM
so hit them on the welfare side of the deed......good idea, I'll let you know about the email addy GG, thanks so much for responding, I'm at my wits end

Golden Girls
September 29th, 2009, 07:39 AM
Your welcome. Other members might offer better/different advice. I realize it's especially hard when your family members don't care. As you already know mine are the same and wouldn't hesitate to shop over adopt :sad: You just have to know who not to waste your breath on ...

Do you know what mill in Quebec their getting the pups from?

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 07:48 AM
no I don't GG, just that they drive over to pick them up

chico2
September 29th, 2009, 07:57 AM
You go girls:thumbs up

Winston
September 29th, 2009, 09:19 AM
How sad for you to be in this situation! The other angle you could persue is whether or not they have registered the puppy business, whether they have declared the income and also if they are in Ontario what about taxes like PST & GST? I dont even know if they do charge taxes on a pet??? Or I wonder what CRA would think if they are not declaring the income? when you are on assistance that is provided by a municipality or govt office you usually are not taxable at the end of any given year and usually you reap the rewards of things like a gst credit?? hmmm lots of angles there! hope it helps! OH and most of these places have a "tip/lead" line! and you can usually remain anonomious? (sp)

Good Luck :thumbs up

Cindy

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 09:37 AM
GG was mentioning the tax side of it all, so maybe I'll go with that angle...and tip/lead? hmmm I'll look into that right away

Winston
September 29th, 2009, 09:41 AM
I'd be willing to bet money that the welfare office has a tip line too! (gotta remember there are lots of nosey neighbours that like to report people etc!) The thing about the tax side is this I think it has to be worth their while in taking someone on for a few hundred bucks right? but with welfare they are not reporting that they have the money (income) and receiving a handout instead? (fraud) with taxes they are evading but probably not alot?? if that makes sense??

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 10:35 AM
yes it does make sense, I found a 1-800 number to call and was thinking of calling from a payphone so it can't be traced back to me, do you think I'd be taken seriously by not giving my name? and another thing....morals...am I a rotten person to be doing this? the reason and only reason I would do this is to stop at least one person from giving money to a puppy mill.

kandy
September 29th, 2009, 10:50 AM
I don't think you are a rotten person, it's their morals I'd question!

I know in the US, any person involved in the commercial sale of pets must be licensed through the USDA. Not that the license means anything IMO - ideally it is supposed to mean that the person selling the pets is subject to inspections and other sanctions, but the USDA can't even keep up with all the things that affect our food supply, let alone provide personnel to keep tabs on these kinds of people. Pet stores use it to make their 'breeders' sound like they have quality standards imposed on them when the reality isn't even anything close. Point being, perhaps Canada has a similar requirement when transporting pets meant for commercial sale across provincial boundaries?

I would imagine the tax/undisclosed income route is probably going to get the most attention from the authorities, but the licensing could be another angle if needed.

Winston
September 29th, 2009, 11:09 AM
Are they approachable? if not your safer for the dogs to go the tip route?

Yes I beleive they would take you seriously because not everyone is comfortable in giving out their name!

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 11:17 AM
the "cousins" are not approachable, lets see, he's on disability and her, mothers allowance, he's been jailed for break and enter and assault (heavy on the drugs and goes crazy), but the reason I don't want my name used is because I am very close to his mom who is the one that told me how they make money and in her own innocence tells me they aren't from puppy mills but unwanted pups the always seem to end up at this one quebec persons home....duh....they transport roughly 100 pups a month, thats a lot of stray pups to end up in one home.

Love4himies
September 29th, 2009, 11:33 AM
I believe the CRA has a hotline and it is anonymous. Isn't the gov't wanting to crack down on those selling on the internet?

Do you have any info on what pet stores they are selling to? That would be some great info to give the CRA, they will audit them looking at their receipts of purchases for resale.

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 12:04 PM
we now only have one pet store in cornwall that sells pups so yeah, I have the name of it.

mastifflover
September 29th, 2009, 12:29 PM
Welfare takes making extra money very seriously. I hate this stuff because bottom line is you and I are paying for these people to make more money than some of us that go to work everyday. It is not fair and they should be reported let alone that in fact they are contributing to and putting money in byb and puppy mills pockets.

BenMax
September 29th, 2009, 12:32 PM
the "cousins" are not approachable, lets see, he's on disability and her, mothers allowance, he's been jailed for break and enter and assault (heavy on the drugs and goes crazy), but the reason I don't want my name used is because I am very close to his mom who is the one that told me how they make money and in her own innocence tells me they aren't from puppy mills but unwanted pups the always seem to end up at this one quebec persons home....duh....they transport roughly 100 pups a month, thats a lot of stray pups to end up in one home.

Very suspect.... maybe the MSPCA can go and investigate this? Again it can be anonymous.

I can appreciate your candidature in the following as it involves a family member (kind of reminds me of that 'abused' cat home I was dealing with).

Tough one Melinda.

katb
September 29th, 2009, 12:32 PM
Melinda, I am new here, and have been following your post. If it were me, I would try to find out more info. on the people that your reliatives are getting the puppy's from. You could take down a bigger ball of wax if you can find out all you can first. Can you tip off Animal warden there? They mit help you.

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 02:13 PM
the plot thickens, upon researching her name to get as much info as I can I came across this.

Fraud Charges
Thursday, 15 January 2009
In November 2008, the Police began a fraud investigation into the misrepresentation of a dog purchased over the internet Kijiji site. The female victim in Peterborough had received a totally different breed of dog than she had ordered and the seller had refused any recourse.

The subsequent investigation lead to the arrest on January 14th of **** *******, age 18, of Cornwall, Ontario, for Fraud Under $5,000. ******* was held in custody and appeared in court on January 15th, where she was released on conditions and is to appear in court next on February 17th.

BenMax
September 29th, 2009, 03:04 PM
the plot thickens, upon researching her name to get as much info as I can I came across this.

Fraud Charges
Thursday, 15 January 2009
In November 2008, the Police began a fraud investigation into the misrepresentation of a dog purchased over the internet Kijiji site. The female victim in Peterborough had received a totally different breed of dog than she had ordered and the seller had refused any recourse.

The subsequent investigation lead to the arrest on January 14th of **** *******, age 18, of Cornwall, Ontario, for Fraud Under $5,000. ******* was held in custody and appeared in court on January 15th, where she was released on conditions and is to appear in court next on February 17th.

How the heck did you get this? Great work Melinda. Is there something that we can do. What if I 'wanted to get a puppy'. If I can get in there maybe I can come up with some facts ...and pictures.... I know GG will be willing as well (she is always up for this type of stuff)...

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 03:20 PM
I have been trying to find what she goes by (email) on kijiji but no luck so far, if I do find it, I'll let you know, thanks

Sylvie
September 29th, 2009, 03:38 PM
You guys are great.:thumbs up

But I still would report them to welfare and Revenue Canada. Hit them where it hurts. Welfare and Rev Can want to stop these people but can only do it with the help of the taxpayers. After all, your taxes are paying for the GST and Provincial credits they receive and also for the welfare that they receive.Not to mention the poor pups.

If you need help from this end let me know, I would like to close them down also.

BenMax
September 29th, 2009, 03:44 PM
I have been trying to find what she goes by (email) on kijiji but no luck so far, if I do find it, I'll let you know, thanks

Melinda - do you know when or how they transport them. Better yet - where they are dropped off. It would be great to know where and we can wait in a vehicle and then follow them back.

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 04:10 PM
I know its her dad that drives her (he's my first cousin whom I'd prefer to not be related to) all I know is its in Montreal and I'm sure she keeps them in her low income housing unit till they are sold.

thank you Sylvia, I am going to report them to the govt but I have to get as much info as I can on them.

BenMax
September 29th, 2009, 04:17 PM
I know its her dad that drives her (he's my first cousin whom I'd prefer to not be related to) all I know is its in Montreal and I'm sure she keeps them in her low income housing unit till they are sold.

thank you Sylvia, I am going to report them to the govt but I have to get as much info as I can on them.

Good luck Melinda. I am so sorry. If there is anything I can do, please let me know. I have gone 'under cover' before and would absolutely do it again.

Melinda
September 29th, 2009, 07:38 PM
I'm trying something new, I've posted under my "hidden" email addy that I'm looking for 2 small pups, doesn't matter if purebred or even from the same litter as long as they stay small, papers not necessary......we'll see if she responds

Frenchy
September 29th, 2009, 09:12 PM
You guys are great.:thumbs up

But I still would report them to welfare and Revenue Canada. Hit them where it hurts. Welfare and Rev Can want to stop these people but can only do it with the help of the taxpayers. After all, your taxes are paying for the GST and Provincial credits they receive and also for the welfare that they receive.Not to mention the poor pups.



I totally agree. It won't matter if you complain about them being puppy brokers but them making money while on welfare ... that's going to get them in trouble :thumbs up

maneater
September 29th, 2009, 09:33 PM
I would call the welfare reporting line and then deal with the puppy broker thing. Both make me sick but you have got to start somewhere.

Golden Girls
September 30th, 2009, 08:47 AM
I'm trying something new, I've posted under my "hidden" email addy that I'm looking for 2 small pups, doesn't matter if purebred or even from the same litter as long as they stay small, papers not necessary......we'll see if she responds:goodvibes:

Sheri H
September 30th, 2009, 11:43 AM
I would report them to both the Canada Revenue Agency as well as the Department of Community and Social Services. Once you find out where they are keeping the pets, place a call to the local animal control authority saying you have concerns about the conditions the animals are being kept in. Finally, if you can find out the source, call and report them as well also stating you have concerns about the conditioo they are being kept in.

kandy
September 30th, 2009, 12:14 PM
It's a good idea to see if you can come up with the name they post ads on Kiiji under, that way the authorities have a "paper trail" to follow. If they see that this person lists ads every week, then it will go a long way to proving that they are committing fraud with the unclaimed income since the authorities will be able to have an estimate of how many dogs they are selling at "x" price each. And of course it doesn't hurt that they've already been busted once for fraud.

Melinda
September 30th, 2009, 12:37 PM
thats what I was told also Kandy, get as much info as I can, even what type/year of car she drives, being on mothers allowance and living in housing you aren't left with too much to buy a car with...so if its a newer model.......

Lyrical44
September 30th, 2009, 03:45 PM
If you are closeish to them, enough so that you might be able to go with them to pick up the pups, not only would you have the ability to call about the welfare thing, but also about the mill the pups are coming from!

I would deffinately find the mill BEFORE reporting them, because if you report the welfare thing, they will put an end to the puppy selling, and then you wont ever find the mill to put a stop to it as well!!

I know that if the mill has a kennel liscence though, there is little to be done here in Canada to put a stop to it, as long as the dogs LOOK healthy. The SPCA around these areas im in Ontario, it may be different in Montreal, but around here the SPCA only looks at the pets and the Kennel liscense and then they will leave the owner alone, unless there are a multitude of complaints about their lack of vet care....Just offering what little info I have in order to help.