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I'm about to sit down and cry. I'm at my wits end

jasp615
September 21st, 2009, 05:52 PM
I have a fur baby named Versace. He is a Shih Tzu age 11 months. Since the end of July we have been battling a UTI. The only symptoms was him licking himself after peeing. I took him to the Vet and he was put on antibiotics for 14 days.

On day 9 I took a sample of his urine in to be tested and it showed no change so the Vet switched to a stronger antibiotic which was a mixture of 2. He was to be on this for 14 days. On day 12 I took a urine sample in again and once again it showed only minor changes. At this time they wanted to do an xray, ultra sound and a urine culture. I suggested that we do a urine culture and take it from there. I finished the antibiotic waited 4 days then took in a clean catch urine sample. They sent it out and I got the results about 10 days later. No growth 24 or 48 hours. OK so he doesn't have a UTI so the meds must of worked.

On Friday I noticed that he had what looked like a drop of puss on the end of his penis. I called the Vet and brought him in to be checked along with a urine sample. Here what I saw was normal but the urine showed no blood but some white blood cells and his PH was way up around 10. The Vet gave me a 14 day supply of pills to bring down his PH and said that he didn't believe it was stones but just a very stubborn infection. On Sat the other vet called and said he had another UTI infection and he wanted to try along with the PH lowering pills another try with the strong antibiotic this time for 30 days and a different antibiotic for 15 days to be taken all together.

Here is my take. My puppy won't drink. Nothing I try is working. I bought a Aquababies water bottle and thought this would be good and had this since he was brought home at 16 weeks. I got rid of that and bought stainless steel bowls to put water in (no deep but shallow bowls) he only gets spring water never tap. I have put milk, cranberry juice, bullion, Organic Chicken broth, Ice cubes, orange juice, a splash of lemon juice. Nothing is working. The water is both cold and changed often. I tried putting a treat in the bowl so that he would be encouraged to drink. Hell I even got down and pretended to drink from the bowl but nothing is working. I'm told if he doesn't drink it won't flush the bacteria out of his system. He has never peed in the house since he had this. I'm told that is how many know that their dogs have a UTI but he has never done it. He rings the bell to go out and I take him out. I don't believe it's a blockage because if he does drink he pees a steady strong stream.

I will cook him ground turkey or beef and mix it in with his food ( Dick Van Patten's Natural balance) Treats are fresh carrots or treats that don't have soy, wheat, BHA, corn, red #40,. The food is dry kibbles because he won't eat the can. I have soaked the kibbles with boiled water until they soak up the water then mix in the turkey or beef.

I'm crazy about my baby. He is our first dog in 25 yrs. (we would not have a dog until we had time to devote to him) and now I don't know what else to do.

Please help.:shrug:

Macomom
September 21st, 2009, 06:00 PM
Just a thought, as wacky as it maybe...
My bulldog drinks from a water bottle that I hold. I get a lot of water on the floor, but this is his preference.
Will he drink from a mug or a glass?

Bailey_
September 21st, 2009, 06:10 PM
Have you tried warming the water? Obviously if he isn't drinking this is extremley serious and the vet should put him on fluids.

Love4himies
September 21st, 2009, 06:17 PM
I was thinking the same thing, bailey. Sub q's twice a day to flush out the pup's kidneys and bladder.

Try your pup on a raw diet, there is much more fluid in that than cooked meat. I am not too familiar with feeding a dog raw, but there are a few members that do. Bendyfoot is one and Merlin's Hope is the other. It is close to their natural diet and may bring the ph down to the proper level.

Also, I know with cats, a ph level below or above norm can cause stones. Perhaps getting an ultrasound or xray may be a good idea, just incase they end up passing and others then form and get stuck for a while.

Marcha
September 21st, 2009, 06:55 PM
Why is your pup getting spring water instead of tap water?
Could you catch rain water and see if he'll drink that?
Does your pup drink from puddles, lakes, etc?

Our dog will also lick water off my legs after I've showered, or lick water off the deck after I've hosed it down. Are there ways other than a bowl or bottle that your pup is interested in?

What happens if you add a tiny bit of sea salt, epsom (magnesium salt) or baking soda to the pup's water? Does pup drink the water then?

I also agree with what the previous posters suggested regarding getting water out of raw food. Our pup is on a raw diet and has decreased her water intake with the increase of water in the raw meat.

Have you tried soaking the pup's food in water before mixing it with the other stuff?

jasp615
September 21st, 2009, 07:10 PM
Hi and thank you all,

I do soak his dry food in either chicken broth or water prior to mixing in the other food. He has never been a big eater or drinker since the time we brought him. Some days I have to put his dry kibbles in a toy in order for him to eat.

I don't give him tap water because we have a high floride in our water and we ourselves don't drink it.

Yes he will drink water outside if he finds it sometimes but I'm pretty careful to make sure there is nothing laying around so he doesn't get sick from drinking it.

I won't say he isn't drinking anything it's just he's not drinking enough. Nothing stays the same day to day. If one day he eats everything the next he eats very little.

He is 11 months old yesterday. He weighs 13 lbs. He is playful, not lethartic. He has about 3 bowel moments a day. He pees about 4-5x's a day. Why won't he drink more?

aslan
September 21st, 2009, 07:18 PM
I'm not sure i'd say 13lbs is underweight. The amount of antibiotics he's taking may be upsetting his tummy so he's not eating. I agree with the others about trying raw feeding. Try giving him water at room temp. If he is more willing to drink water from the ground, the water you're giving him may be too cold for his liking.

pbpatti
September 21st, 2009, 07:26 PM
So sorry to hear your pup is ailing. I just had my dog on antibiotics and I learned here on pets.ca that if you give probiotics with their meal it will help the tummy trouble. Also maybe try some pumkin in his kibbles. This is the pure pumkin puree not the one with spices for pies, it has a lot of moisture in it so maybe would help. Hope if gets better soon.

Gail P
September 21st, 2009, 09:14 PM
If you're already cooking him ground turkey or beef, how about switching to roasted turkey, chicken or beef and making gravy to go with it? Chances are he'll love the gravy and at each meal you could water down the gravy a little bit more. If the change is gradual he should get used to the consistency becoming more watery but it will still have that yummy gravy flavour. Another thought, rather than soaking his food in the chicken broth as you mentioned, what about just adding the broth and feeding right away. He may not like the consistency of the food if it's been soaked too long and becomes mushy.

Bailey_
September 21st, 2009, 09:35 PM
Hi and thank you all,

I do soak his dry food in either chicken broth or water prior to mixing in the other food. He has never been a big eater or drinker since the time we brought him. Some days I have to put his dry kibbles in a toy in order for him to eat.

I don't give him tap water because we have a high floride in our water and we ourselves don't drink it.

Yes he will drink water outside if he finds it sometimes but I'm pretty careful to make sure there is nothing laying around so he doesn't get sick from drinking it.

I won't say he isn't drinking anything it's just he's not drinking enough. Nothing stays the same day to day. If one day he eats everything the next he eats very little.

He is 11 months old yesterday. He weighs 13 lbs. He is playful, not lethartic. He has about 3 bowel moments a day. He pees about 4-5x's a day. Why won't he drink more?

I'm curious as to why you're concerned he's not drinking enough? Do you not see him drinking?
Some dogs take very small sips through the day, while others tend to be big noticeable gulpers. It could be possible that your pup just sips what he needs.

Like Aslan mentioned, 13lbs sounds fairly healthy for an 11 month old shih tzu. If he's still playing, and fairly active, (and his bowel movements seem fairly healthy) I'd really be leaning towards the fact that he's getting enough liquid in his diet.

If you're very concerned, why not try measuring a cup of water for his bowl. By the evening, pour the water remaining back in his measuring cup and take note of the difference. This may help to ease your mind. Combine that with the suggestions from the members and hopefully something helps! :)

CearaQC
September 21st, 2009, 09:43 PM
I don't give him tap water because we have a high floride in our water and we ourselves don't drink it.


FINALLY someone on this forum besides me understands fluoride. :thumbs up But keep watch on the "ingredients" list on the bottled water you get. Sometimes they too have fluoride. I got laughed at one time because I told a story of a man with a cat who drank water from a well, only to move to a city where the cat began to drink city water and then the cat died a few weeks later. Ah well you can't convince everyone I guess. There's more in that city water besides fluoride and chlorine! And public record. Anyone can look up their municipal water supply and talk to someone who works there about what goes into the water and what their filtration systems cannot remove.

What's the sodium content on the broth you're giving? Homemade or store bought? Keep in mind that any liquid from the grocery store like canned or box broth is also made with water and there's really no way to know if the water they used contains fluoride or not.

You may have to get the subcutaneous fluid thing going though. Your vet can show you how to do it. I don't think it's that expensive.

Hope your dog gets to feel better real soon!! :pray:

Marcha
September 21st, 2009, 11:30 PM
I totally understand about the fluoridated water.:thumbs up

Bodhi is currently on antibiotics, and we find that giving her the abx *after* a meal helps her keep her appetite. Giving them before a meal seems to make her nauseous... and she definitely doesn't want to eat or drink anything after the abx. But after a meal, it doesn't seem to make her queasy.

She doesn't like the abx ground into her meal (she'll refuse the meal). We grind the pill and then mix it with a bit of butter, and give it after she's had a meal and a drink.

Are you giving the abx before, during or after a meal?

Marcha
September 22nd, 2009, 12:05 AM
(just an afterthought - we use iodine drops to prevent fluoride and chlorides from taking up the receptor space... so that fluoride and chlorides that are added to water and such simply flush through, since they compete for the same receptors in the body. A receptor that is taken up by fluoride or chlorides can't hold on to iodine - and vice versa. The levels of fluoride and chlorides added to water can prevent regular iodine (from regular use of iodized table salts and kelp/fish) absorption and cause all sorts of thyroid-related issues, varying from fatigue, muscle pain, irritability, lowered immune system, to full-on hypothyroid issues. One drop of iodine per day can accomplish this. We put one drop per day in Bodhi's water bowl, and each of us take one drop per day in a glass of water.)

jasp615
September 22nd, 2009, 07:33 AM
First. I do not allow my children nor my family to drink our water which is city water and fortified with fluoride. We drink bottle water which is spring water and make sure there is nothing added. I prefer the taste better and I drink a lot. About a gallon to a gallon and a half a day. I'm just very careful as to what I ingest.

I want to thank you all for coming to my aid. I'm just really perplexed as to what to do.

Sace has never really been a big drinker. I know what I put in his water bowl and what is left and it's less then a cup of water some days. The other thing is his urine is dark in color so it's concentrated. Also when I had the urine tested I asked for a urine gravity and to see if there were crystals present. The urine gravity was high and there were some not a lot of crystals. Now this was the first urine of the day but still it should not be that concentrated.

Sace is not underweight in fact he is right where he should be. He eats when he wants maybe a cup of food in a good day. From what I have read if you feed them a good food they need less then if you feed them junk. Not real worry about him eating and it has taken HIM time to train us as to what he likes....LOL We do not cook for him everyday. Only when I see that he has not eaten well in a couple of days. It's more of a treat for him.

I'm just worried because with the UTI and not really drinking the antibiotics will not flush the bacteria from his system which will cause the UTI to continue.

Last night I did heat up some water with 1% milk in it and he drank it but this morning he wants nothing to do with it. As for the broth. I bought organic chicken broth seasoned with sea salt with a sodium of 580 instead of 1480 from other brands. We read all the ingredients and felt OK about it.

I tend to be a big researcher due to my own health problems. Hypothyroidism, Lyme, T2 and Mono which I believe the Lyme set this all into motion. I had it a long time without knowing. I never had the bullseye, which about 70 precent never do and go years without a diagnosis. In fact what is out there today to test was never meant to even be a tool to diagnose it was meant to be a tracking tool for the CDC. Sorry I have now stepped down off my soap box.

What have all of you put into the water for them to drink? I know Broth, Milk, but what other things can I try safely?

Love4himies
September 22nd, 2009, 08:59 AM
Not sure if dogs are as lactose intolerant as cats, but I would be careful in giving your pup milk, just in case it is giving him some cramps.

Some UTI can be wicked to get rid of, even in humans. Some antibiotics are better at clearing up UTI's than others. I agree with others, make a gravy while you are cooking the meat and crush the meat up in the gravy so it is like a sloppy joe consistancy. That way you know your pup is getting lots of water.

Soaking kibble unless eaten immediately may cause mould to grow. Also, what kibble are you feeding your dog?

I will PM Merlin's Hope and Bendyfoot who are very knowledgeable and may have some great advice for you.

bendyfoot
September 22nd, 2009, 09:16 AM
Hey there...sorry you're feeling so stressed out about your pup. We too have battled repeat infections and boyohboy it can be a royal pain in the butt. A few thoughts:

1. I'm inclined to agree with some of the other members about the water consumption and drinking habits. I was thinking about our three dogs...one I can't remember the last time I saw her drink from the bowl; one will obsessively slurp for 5 minutes at a time, but maybe once a day; the other will pretty much live with her face hanging in the bowl, slurping lazily and splashing it everywhere. They all eat the same food, but they do vary in size. I've never actively tried to increase/decrease their water consumption before, so I won't be much help there. I would definitely avoid milk (lactose intolerance) and prepackaged broths make me leery because of the salt content (which would also be dehydrating).

Generally speaking, a dog should take in around 1fl0z/lb, which would be about 1.5 cups of fluid a day, but that would include fluid intake from food as well as plain water, so if you're soaking kibble, giving wet or raw food, or giving treats (carrots, veggies, fruits, etc) that are not dehydrated, those would addup

2. It's normal to have a fairly concentrated/dark pee first thing in the morning so I wouldn't worry there. But you're definitely right about UTIs being "helped along" by added fluids; I would agree with the members that a raw diet would be very helpful for naturally adding fluid to your pup's system, and you might also find that he becomes a less finicky eater (e.g. won't have to resort to putting kibble in toys to get him to eat). Jaida WOULD NOT EAT for pretty much her first 1.5 years, until we switched to raw, now she's a major chow hound. There are a ton of nutritional, dental and mental benefits to a raw diet on top of the added fluid intake. Raw sounds scary but it's actually very very easy to do as long as you don't obsess over the details...and if you're already preparing cooked meat for him, you can make it easier and healthier by leaving the meat raw. If you're interested in learning more about raw feeding I'd be happy to offer more info.

muggsmom
September 22nd, 2009, 09:21 AM
We have 3 dogs around the same size and all of them drink different amounts of water. Fira has to have her kibble soaked in water because of a throat injury, and she drinks very little out of the water bowl. How much water do you mix with his kibble? Are you concerned that he's not getting enough water generally, or do you want him to drink more to flush the kidneys?

When our dogs are on antibiotics, we give them FortiFlora, it's a probiotic for dogs that you get from the vet.

MerlinsHope
September 22nd, 2009, 10:01 AM
Sorry to hear about your situation. I really can empathize with your frustration.

Ok. Firstly, there is a relationship between the constant taking of antibiotics and the constant reoccurrence of infections. This can become a vicious circle... meaning shortly after you stop the antibiotics... the infection comes back. SIGN OF = fallen immune system

DID THIS DOG recently get vaccinated ( say within the past 6 weeks?)

Here is what I would do in your shoes.

#1- While this dog is on antibiotics I would give it acidolphilus pill each day with the antibiotic. This will help maintain the wanted flora in the intestines that are getting killed off by the antibiotics. It is THIS flora that helps digestion . If your dog cannot properly digest, then your dog cannot pull essential vitamins and minerals out of it's food.

#2 - do not under any circumstances offer any foods, including carrots, that contain SUGAR. Sugar helps grow bacteria and yeast. So no more carrots. If you want to give your dog a treat, give it a piece of dried meat, frozen organ or anything that is species appropriate ( and that's not man made foods).

#3 - If your dog is demonstrating a fallen immune system, you must increase EFA ( Essential Fatty Acids / Omega 3 + 6)... and that comes from fish oil.. not from flaxseed, not from cod liver oil, but from fish oil. You can either start to feed a sardine a day, or purchase wild salmon or krill oil, or 3 -fish oil at a health food store. I cannot tell you enough how much this will help your dog.

The fact that your dog is not drinking or eating is not a good sign and I would take this up with my vet immediately if i were you. It's true that some antibiotics cause this to occur, but it's essential that your dog stay well hydrated. If not, you're going to run into other problems.

You would be far better off giving your dog wet food at this point, and personally I get tired of hearing that people's dogs won't eat this or that. A hungry dog won't starve itself. Not ever. If your dog is hungry, it will eat literally anything, so keep offering the wet food, and when he's hungry enough, he'll eat it.

Fats are ok for dogs because that's where they get their energy from. Carbs are absolutely NO good, neither are soys, glutens or foods containing sugars.

I know that we often think we are not giving these items to our dogs, but it includes corners of morning toast, the odd bit of a sandwich or cracker or cookie. You have to cease giving any items like this to your dog and that includes most man made treats. Unless is a pure piece of meat, do not give it to this dog.

If you boil your turkey and other meats before giving it to your dog, you will need to offer some kind of vitamin source because cooking meat takes away most of the nutrional quality, so essentially the dog isn't eating very much. Try feeding it to him raw instead. He'll at least have maximum value that way. If you want to supplement with a high quality dog food, that's fine, but make sure it doesn't include any unwanted ingredients... and again.. in your case, wet food is probably a better choice.

If you have to flavour foods You can help the situation by sprinkling grated parmeasan cheese on some foods, or smear some green tripe, that usually really works, or flavor with a bit of melted butter.

Stay on top of the drinking though. That's a big deal. It's very possible that it's the pills that are causing this. and did the vet actually culture your dog's penis? Because male dogs do produce smegma, which is also yellow in colour, that does not mean it's pus. Usually if the smega is green that is a sign of infection, but yellow is normal. and FYI smega is a normal discharge from a penis. Maybe you are confusing the two?

Best of luck

MM


Anyways, that's what I would do in this case.

jasp615
September 22nd, 2009, 10:15 AM
I would like to have more information on the raw diet. How safe is it? How to prepare it? I was reading that a puppy needs 1 cup of liquid for every 5 lbs so of course I was freaking out that I was lucky if he drank a cup of fluid a day let alone 2.5 cups.

When I first borough my Sace home he was on Eagle pack. He did not really like this so we tried Merrick Puppy plate both kibbles and wet. Again did not like it. We have tried countless other organic or upper end foods again no luck. Natural Balance was the first one that he would even eat. I swear he gets bored with the same food. He loves raw carrots. I mean he will dance and get so excited if I ask him if he wants a carrot it's so cute. I never saw a dog do this. He loves them. Oh he also loves paper. I mean really really love paper. This is the only thing that he will become aggressive with. I can take his toys, his food, his treats, but Lord have mercy if I reach for a piece of paper that he has got a hold of. I'm trying to convince him that paper is not all that...LOL I'm losing!

Now is there something that can be sprinkled on the food to help with the prevention of UTI's? Do you give your dogs/cats herbs or vitamins? I think you are right I think his belly is upset. He won't even eat what he loves too much.

bendyfoot
September 22nd, 2009, 10:21 AM
Merlin's Hope will likely give you the most helpful raw diet info, but in a nutshell, it's completely safe for you and the dog (you just have to take normal precautions as when preparing raw meat for yourself, but dogs systems are incredibly well-protected against the majority of meat-borne disease like salmonella etc so it's not a worry for them). Preparation is: buy meat/bone/organ, thaw meat/bone/organ, hand chunk of meat/bone/organ to dog. Voila it's that easy. No grinding, cooking, nothing. Maybe cutting a bit if you have a little dog or buy a large chunk of food (like a whole turkey or something) but ours are largely single-serving size :D

Longblades
September 22nd, 2009, 11:04 AM
Sorry you are having these troubles. You do seem to be right on top of it though so I'm sure your pup will get the help he needs.

The water is both cold and changed oftenSeveral others beat me to it but I also have noted that none of mine like cold water. Given the chance they all, cats and dog, prefer the pail outside that sits outside on the deck. It gets quite warm even though we change it once a day. Could you try leaving a container out to warm up? Maybe you should give the tap water a try for a while too, just to see if he'll drink something. Drinking something is surely better than not drinking? It might be what he was used to before you got him?

On Friday I noticed that he had what looked like a drop of puss on the end of his penis.That could be smegma, a normal male discharge. It looks a lot like pus and often has a yellow or greenish hue to it. And yes, the boys like to lick themselves. What did the Vet say about it?

Where does Sage live during the day? Is he crated? Some folks leave their pooch in the crate for far too long. Most dogs will try not to soil their crate and if that means they are "holding on" it can make for a UTI. Every woman's doctor ever has probably told her that. Could be a contributing cause for Sage too. I do see that he rings a bell, but is he left alone and crated for periods of time as well? Just an idea to consider.

Poor little guy, hope he is feeling better soon.

jasp615
September 22nd, 2009, 11:32 AM
OMG! thank you so much for taking the time to type this. You don't know how much it means to me that you and all the other women have come to help.

Not vaccinated within the last 4 months. He was neutered 5/15/09 along with a Lyme vaccine. I was so worried since I have it and know what it's doing to me. His birth date was 10/20/08 so he was almost 7 months.

I had frontlined him 3 times 6 weeks apart but stopped because I want to find another way to treat ticks and fleas other then a pesticide transdermal. He is also taking a heart worm med. He just took this on Friday so could this be also the cause of not really eating? I was told I could either just give this to him for the 6 warmer months and stop and restart again after the winter or I could keep him on this year round. What do you suggest?

I did notice that he had a very small scab where he was neutered. I didn't think too much about it and to tell the truth I forgot about it because it was so small. When I felt it again I took a closer look. Not easy but when I looked real close with glasses I noticed that he had 2 stitches that did not dissolved that I needed to remove. (I have the proper items to do this) No open cut and I washed the area rechecked the next day and it was fine.

We noticed that he was licking himself which he never did before and this went on for a bit before I called the vet. His activity level did not change in fact other then the licking nothing changed. No accidents in the house nor did he run a fever. When I took him in this is when the UTI's started. The licking started after he was neutered. About 2 weeks later.

1. Where do I purchase the Acidolphilus pills? Right now he is on :

Clavamox (Amoxicillin trihydrate/clavulanate potassium) 62.5 mgs 2x's a day for 30 days
Baytril 68 mgs 1 a day for 15 days
Ammonil 1 tablet 2x's a day (this is to bring down his PH which was 10) for 15 days

Sace eats as you can tell from the weight 13 lbs at 11 months old. He is just not really eating now. He also won't eat if I put food down and remove it. I did this for 2 months and he would not eat. I leave dry kibble down all the time and he gets 1 cup a day. If there is dry kibble left, at dinner time that is what I mix his meat with after soaking it. He gets NO people food. No cookies, no pieces of toast, no sandwich, NOTHING. I know that there are many things that a human can eat that is dangerous to a dog. My kids are older 13 and 19 so they too understand this. The only people food he gets are the carrots or the meat that I cook for him and that's not everyday but as a treat. It's not left overs from us it's his own meat. We were also told to put his meds in cheese so that he will take it. Nothing else.

I am extremely careful about what is in his food. NO SOY, WHEAT, CORN, BHA, RED #40, See below. His treats are Merrick dried beef or Natural Balance dog bones (turkey, cranberry, oatmeal) or Zuke's chicken flavor treats or carrots. That's it.

Believe me he has been to the Vet. I'm now around 800.00 in vet visits and meds. I keep an eye on his gums to make sure they are wet and pink. The moment I see this changing I will have them give me IV fluids to give to him but up until now they told me it wasn't needed. This light drinking has been for 7 months. He has been to the vet over 9 times. I keep a folder with all his tests and information. When he was neutered I had his blood work done due to being put under and I wanted to know if the Kidney's could handle it. Most will pass on this. I did not.

I did not know about the omega's for dogs. I had bought the krill oil for my hubby due to the Mercury that can be found in trace amounts in fish oil or fresh fish. How much do I give him and how?

Here is what is in his food:

Chicken, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Barley, Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Carrots, Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Tomato Pomace, Natural Flavor, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Duck, Salmon Oil, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Spinach, Parsley Flakes, Cranberries, L-Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

If you have another suggestion please advise. I know you mentioned raw food diet.

Yes I just found that out about the discharge. Like I said it's our first dog so this is all new to me and I want to get it right. I take care of him like I would our children. Yes I know he's a dog but he's a part of this family and we all love him.

I hope this helped giving you more info. I printed out your post and will follow this and I hope this will help.

I'm very against antibiotic use. I think too many over use this drug. I will only use this if I have too and there is nothing other that I can take. I had to take doxy for 4 months at a very high dose for Lyme prior to that I hadn't been on any for over 10 yrs. The same stands true with our children. I'm a firm believer in Vitamin D.

jasp615
September 22nd, 2009, 11:42 AM
No Sace has not been in a crate in a while. I do have one here if we need to go out but most of the time someone is home so he is left out when he wants to go out. I'm a stay at home Mom so I am with him all the time. If I have to go out for an hour or two I make sure he goes outside prior to leaving. When I come home I let him out again. I just within the last two weeks have not crated him when I need to run somewhere and he has done great. I put a baby gate up so he can't go upstairs (if he went upstairs he won't come back down. He was afraid but within the last two days he now will come down the steps) other then that he has the family room and kitchen to roam.

He also no longer goes in the crate at night in our bedroom he now sleeps with us. I swore this would never happen but now look at me....LOL He does well. finds his spot and that's where he stays until 7AM when it's time to get the kids up for school. Even on their days off he is up at 7. Now last night he got me up at around 5. He wanted to go out. I let him out then we went back to bed.

jasp615
September 22nd, 2009, 11:50 AM
Here is a picture of Sace and my younger son last month.

Love4himies
September 22nd, 2009, 11:53 AM
I feed my cats a homemade raw diet, but I grind, which is most of the work. I have fed my foster kittens raw for years and have never, never had an issue with illness or diarrhea, in fact they are healthier than cats who are not.

Think about your children eating processed food all the time, versus fresh fruit, veggies, home made baked goods and meat. Same goes with commercial pet food versus fresh meat/veggies. I saw a huge difference in my cats after changing their diet.

Both Clavamox and Baytril are good antibiotics for UTI's but they can make your pup feel nauseated.

bendyfoot
September 22nd, 2009, 11:54 AM
Chicken, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Barley, Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Carrots, Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Tomato Pomace, Natural Flavor, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Duck, Salmon Oil, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Spinach, Parsley Flakes, Cranberries, L-Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6),Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.
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I highlighted a few incredients here. This is not the "worst" food you could get, as a kibble, but it is LOADED with grains and starches. Dogs and cats, being carnivores, need none of this. My three dogs and 2 cats haven't eaten anything other than meat, bones and organs for about a year now, and they're healthier than they've ever been. The thing is, we are often fooled by what animals seem to "like" eating, but keep this in mind; humans often really "like" chocolate bars, big macs and potato chips, but it's really not real food, and really has no place in our diets. Same goes for things like premade treats, carrots, etc.

The flax seeds are presumably a source of omegas, but a) unless they're freshly ground they have little nutritional value and b) better to get omegas from a wild fish source.

I highlighted the Natural Flavour too. Why on earth does dog food need flavouring?

Melei'sMom
September 22nd, 2009, 01:25 PM
If you are interested in a raw diet for him, you can start with a product like Mountain Dog Food. I noticed you are in the States and I am not sure if it is available there, but there should be something similar. I have a small Shih-tzuX and she has been raw feed for almost her entire life and this is my favorite product. It is super handy if we are traveling :)

jasp615
September 22nd, 2009, 05:28 PM
I am reading about the raw diet now. There are different opinions with the raw diet and urinary track infections due to being a high protein level. I did see some things at "Only Natural Pet store" Today I gave him an ice cube and he ate that. He also drank some water.

MerlinsHope
September 22nd, 2009, 05:37 PM
Hi JASP

RE: Zuke's chicken flavor treats or carrots. That's it.

I'm not sure if you're listening. You've got to LOSE those. no carrots, no flavor treats. They contain food items not suitable for your dog.

You can pick up acidophilus at any health food store. It's a common item.

Someone above already correctly informed you about your food. It's laden with grains, and again, gravitate towards wet food, there is less junk in it. or if you want to try raw, go for it, it's your best bet. you can pick up more information at www.rawpets.ca

You mention that your dog is on a flea and tick preventative. Please be aware that this is a pesticide that you are putting inside your dog, and often they too, have unwanted side effects. It's a pesticide. Ultimately this affects many dogs and cats.

Personally I think your dog isn't eating because of the antibiotics. Nausea is a side effect, but you should let your vet know.

You didn't respond as to whether the pus on the penis was cultured by the vet or not. I'm pretty sure any vet can tell the difference between smegma and pus, but there seems to be some uncertainty there - - or I seem to be uncertain as to how the dog was diagnosed as having a bladder infection.

Fish oil, just give one caplet a day, or one sardine.

Cheers
MM

MerlinsHope
September 22nd, 2009, 05:40 PM
track infections due to being a high protein level.

People have to get a grip on "high" protein levels.

The dogs that are affected by this are dogs that eat foods made out of innappropriate protein sources like corn or processed meats. This has NOTHING to do with natural raw meat. The only possible caveat with raw meat is if the quality is too fatty or too boney.

Sometimes folks purchase poor meat choices that are laden with too much fat or bone rather than meat, so the dog gets ill from that or certainly don't thrive from that.

Cheers
MM

Love4himies
September 22nd, 2009, 06:18 PM
Good point, Merlin's Hope :thumbs up. High fat meat is not good for either cats or dogs, same as bone.

Fresh meat for carnivores is the equivalent of fresh fruit and veggies for humans. If it was not good for our pets, who are carnivores, then there wouldn't be any wild coyotes, wolves, cougars, etc. Feeding a pet a species appropriate food will allow their bodies to operate properly, including keeing an ideal ph level in the urine.

jasp615
September 23rd, 2009, 02:03 PM
I'm listening. No carrots no flavored treats. I was answering others. It wasn't Pus. No smell. UTI was diagnosed by a urine sample. PH was 10, no blood in the urine but there was some white cells.

What do you give your dog for treats. Can you give them cheese?

I know about the frontline. I was saying that I used it 3 times but then stopped. I did not continue because of what is in it. I am looking at a website that does raw diets and oils for animals. The site is all natural.

I'm trying to grasp all of this but it will take some time. I'm grateful for all the information and advice that all of you have given me.

bendyfoot
September 23rd, 2009, 02:10 PM
We get dried liver bits as treats; it's like doggy heroin in our house, they LOVE it.

hazelrunpack
September 23rd, 2009, 02:43 PM
jasp, I just wanted to mention that if you are in an area with lots of ticks, topicals might still be your best bet. We're in Tick Central, here, and despite the dangers of topicals like Frontline, it's really the only thing that works. You have to be careful of the natural remedies that contain essential oils, since some of them are toxic as well, and we haven't found that they offer near the protection that the Frontline does. So unless one of the dogs ends up having a reaction to it sometime down the pike, we're likely going to have to use it as long as we're living here. Even with the Frontline, about a quarter of our sizable annual vet bill goes to fighting tick-borne diseases. :shrug:

As for the heartworm preventive. We keep our dogs on it all year round for the extra worm protection (we use Heartgard +), though we may be rethinking that expense this year. If you keep your dog on it for just the mosquito months, remember to have them tested for heartworm exposure each year before you start the meds again. Both methods work. :thumbs up

MerlinsHope
September 24th, 2009, 07:23 AM
I'm listening.

lolol! GOOD! Was just making sure.


What do you give your dog for treats. Can you give them cheese?
Frozen organs, tiny, cut up pieces of fresh meat, dried meats, some cheese once in a while, but mostly dried meats.
We don't use treat-based training methods here, so the call for treats here isn't a big one per say.

I am looking at a website that does raw diets and oils for animals. The site is all natural.

and this will help your dog how? Again, stay away from commercial products. A natural raw diet means going to the store, buying some meat and giving it to your dog. It's no more complicated than that. When you enter into the world of commercial foods, you are doing the very same thing you did when you bought kibble.

I'm trying to grasp all of this but it will take some time. .

I found the whole thing became easy when I stopped thinking like a human and started thinking like a dog. Try to keep it simple. This is not a complicated diet. it's 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% offal. If you stick to that rule, you'll do just great.

Best of luck
MM

Love4himies
September 24th, 2009, 08:07 AM
I found the whole thing became easy when I stopped thinking like a human and started thinking like a dog. Try to keep it simple. This is not a complicated diet. it's 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% offal. If you stick to that rule, you'll do just great.

Best of luck
MM

That is exactly what you need to do. Don't worry about them eating raw meat because humans shouldn't we have two different digestive systems that are meant to eat different diets all together. I find that commercial pet foods "prey" on humans thinking their pets should be eating the same as humans, when in fact veggies and grain added to the pet food is actually just cheap filler for the industry.

Also, if you don't complicate things, it may not become such a chore or expensive.